Is This the Revolution That Will Change Audiophiles Forever?

Is This the Revolution That Will Change Audiophiles Forever?
🔥🔥🔥L.O.T.S. Loudspeaker Optimization Techniques for Soundstage!
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Bookshelf:
Elac Unifi 2.0: amzn.to/2OrL5RW
Elac UB5: amzn.to/3qo2msU
Elac Debut 2.0: amzn.to/3uVfWar
Elac Debut Reference: amzn.to/2OnQU2W
SVS Ultra: amzn.to/3uXIkZJ
JBL Studio 530: amzn.to/3uVagNL
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Q Acoustics Concept 500: amzn.to/3ddGkEx
SVS Ultra: amzn.to/3qo2msU
SVS Prime Pinnacle: amzn.to/2MMYt2J
Elac Debut 2.0: amzn.to/3ruZRX7
Elac Unifi 2.0 UF52: amzn.to/3uXJa8P
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[@sean_heisler]

Ron, passing on my comments for what it's worth. You know me, I've got good gear, totally treated room, value soundstage big time. I bought these amps for fun at introductory price. My go-to amp that I use is a Pass DIY Burning Amp 3 which is kin to a First Watt F4/F5, about a $3,000 amp. I upgraded the opamps in my V3 monos, use after market quality power cords and replaced the lamp cords. Like most, I have found the balanced input sounds best. Now here is the big one: I use a Musical Paradise tube preamp to drive the V3 mono's and the going thought these days that a tube pre paired with class D amplification is something special holds very true with these. In this configuration, in my system and in my room, these amplifiers do in fact easily compete with my Pass amp, no question. Soundstage is huge, wide, deep. Tonality is excellent. They resolve extremely well, they are powerful, bass is excellent. I can attest, if you have the gear, the room, the right stereo setup and you work with these little amps, they are in fact unbelievably good for the price. If you plop them down in a system not set up well, speakers not optimized for soundstage and you don't have the most resolving gear, well sure, they may not impress you as much. But for me in my setup it's a "holy crap" situation.

[@KeithHeinrich]

Same deal here. Price is a bonus.

[@65epiphone]

The mono's sound a bit bright in my system, of course all newer stuff sounds a little bright to me. I bought them as a backup for my regular amps while they are out for service.

[@sean_heisler]

@@65epiphone I think Class D in general sounds cooler which goes without saying. But I would be curious to know if you are using a tube pre? Replaced the opamps? Power cords? Some might say, I need to do all that to make these sound good? If you want them to compete with much pricier amplifiers like I do then the answer is possibly yes. In stock form they have surprisingly good tone to me but can sound brighter when paired with a solid state preamp and with the stock opamps. But in my personal case, I had all those things on hand when I bought the amps. BTW I bought a pair of figure 8 to IEC inlet power cord adapters in order to use IEC power cords.

[@thinkIndependent2024]

I'm intrigued with you!!!! currently Building a TPA3255 2x but with a PFC rectifier+ capacitor+ SMPS and will confirm and compare to the class A and AB along with Tube amplification... confirming with almost every discrete OP-AMP available.. If under $150 after beefing it up makes a clean incredible 250wpc I want to know...

[@paulwisconsin456]

What did you do with the amp ops?

[@JR-lc1dv]

For those who haven't got the time - this guy over dramatically suggests for 13 minutes !! that the Fossi V3's don't produce enough soundstage to replace more expensive gear.

[@rankcolour8780]

You did Gods work, thanks.

[@c0mbat15]

Can amps affect soundstage?

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@c0mbat15 Some seriously brain dead amplifiers with poor channel separation can sabotage it ... but none can create it. Speaker placement has far more effect.

[@terencejay8845]

This confirms my long time observation that If the Title is a Question, then the answer is No.

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@c0mbat15 No. Soundstage (i.e. the position of instruments in the stereo image) is burned into each recording in the studio. It's in your recordings, not your electronics.

[@brankocernik8384]

Not everybody can afford the high end gear . I own high end gear however i still remember how my journey started . I was a young boy and bought my first little pocket radio , mono at that and i loved it why ? because i was listening to music . Music !

[@NightFlight1973]

Yes. Ignorance is bliss.

[@wegardfjeld3789]

I think of it as an audiophile journey. For someone beginning this is good, but they shouldn't mess around with op amps and cables. When you do you enter the price range of better gear and should get that instead. And so it begins 🫣

[@frankgarcia9834]

I did the same thing..... and then learned 12 instruments.

[@RUfromthe40s]

i also started with a nice looking walkman type in blue brushed aluminium ,but only AM radio ,not even FM, later i got my first radio clock next to the bed so waking up to the sound of music everyday, was nice and i got a old philips cassette player that had a rotating efect very litle next to the keys that´s when i started to record music on my father´s nakamichi 1000 but yet far from touchin` he´s turntable, he wouldn´t allow me to put the stylus on the record but he worked at a bank and for sure he could be at home before 4.30 in the afternoon, that´s how i started to hear his records everyday for two hours in the afternoon ,when i was 11 years old , Beatles it was, i knew the lyrics of all songs, also started to use headphones as i remenber that some neighboor would talk to him and say "this afternoon you played Beatles really loud" , i took care and till he was 90 years old i never told him about that.

[@RUfromthe40s]

@@wegardfjeld3789 audiophile is a strange term as they change 100% opinion as the wind blows, like today the SL-1200 is an audiophile turntable ,before 2010 ,it´s a working horse with so many good turntables from technics a professional one is a no go, i sold both of mine for 500€ in mint condition with two, no , four professional needles two from shure and two concorde from Ortofon, this with 35 years of use, bought them in 1979. I have a lot of good equipment ,even better now that my father´s terrible expensive components are all mine now, but i call myself all my life a music enthusiast as i seek for better music not for better sound , "buy miles davies kind of blue" "yes i bought it also bought...", "Stop , only kind of blue ,others are not so well sounding" that´s audiophiles , they seek for better sound not better music or even good music, it´s kind of missleading word so i do prefer music enthusiast as the person who makes this videos

[@burner8959]

I think the most important thing to realize is that if you want to improve the sound of your gear, there are many things you can and should do before ever thinking about buying a new piece. Room treatments, speaker placement, speaker toe-in, speaker height, add a rug, isolation pucks, speaker wires if you're feeling fancy. I had a pair of Cambridge Audio Aero 2's that I really didn't like the the sound of. Though in the box with them came foam port plugs, so for the hell of it I decided to throw them in. Totally changed the sound for me. Tighter bass, warmer sound and it actually made me want to listen for hours. My speaker upgrade I had already purchased with my speakers. I just hadn't experienced it yet.

[@GordonHudson]

The biggest factor in audio is the listener's ears. At 57 I don't have HD ears. I get more out of music using equalisation to correct my hearing loss. This is the reality for everyone over 40/50 years old. Regardless of what they might think. Its just a fact of life unfortunately.

[@davehood1514]

Very analytical and true.

[@RaymondReeves-db8dr]

I'm 67 years old, I want the best / optimal sound without using additional EQ. If you're not familiar with this concept its called, achieving a flat response. That's not to say that I don't think amplifiers shouldn't have any tone controls. If a recording doesn't sound right to my ears, it won't be because of my age. I can safely say that it won't be because of a fault with my system either. The purist of audiophiles do not need tone controls. I suggest that you need to re evaluate your own sound stage starting with your equipment. If after that you still can't hear any "High Def". Get your ears syringed.

[@Douglas_Blake]

That's not exactly true ... unless you have _severe_ hearing damage it's likely that you are still hearing the entire recording. Music does not occupy the entire 20 to 20k bandwidth allocated for audio. It is a subset of that bandwidth. The highest standard musical note as at a mere 4,186hz (C8 on the piano keyboard). Beyond that all content is harmonics produced by the timbre of the instruments, rolling off very quickly in amplitude so that only the first 3 harmonics of any given note have much impact on the sound. The 10th harmonic of Middle A (440hz tuning standard) is at 4,400 hz. (Yes, 10th harmonic.) Those tinkling little bells and triangles we love picking out of orchestral performances are generally in the range of 2 to 3khz. The giant crash cymbals in a drum kit tend to be about 500hz The rides tend to be about 700 to 800 The high hats tend to run about 1,000 If you take a spectral analysis of just about any piece of music you will find very little content beyond about 8,000hz and beyond 10khz it's almost silent. Bottom line... if you can still hear 8khz you aren't missing anything.

[@terencejay8845]

I have to overcome my tinnitus, without making it worse. It's a fine line.

[@Ylojaketz]

This was as clear-headed, well-constructed and considered an approach to an audio topic or innovation as I think we ever get. So focused. Ron, this was a great piece!

[@paulsomers1039]

I also believe the gear he speaks of is a great gateway into audio for enthusiasts starting out. As you get more into it it’s natural to want better. The used market is a great next step. I still follow it. I’m 56. I’ve been in this hobby since 15. So addicting & satisfying. I’m now to the point of completing my journey. For me tube amps, especially 300b, were my end of the road. I still can’t afford the great stuff. Decware, etc. I have what purists piss on. ChiFi. But in my defense for the money, and some higher grade tubes to replace stock , for me, my ears love what they hear. Not here to promote or sell, but experiment and grow. Some journeys are longer than others but we ALL start out coach. Just my 2 cents. Thank you Ron for educating & entertaining me. You are one of my fav channels. Best holiday wishes to you and fam. Paul

[@JMJM75257]

V3 mono user here. Ive tried a classic british nva 30w amp aswell as audiolab 6000a and pathos logos vintage intergrated somewhat recently. Funnily i actually prefer my v3 mono due to its neutrality. I did tweek op amps to the opa1656 after hot swapping a few but in all honesty it was a minor soundstage improvement. Compared to the pathos logos they have a more neutral tonality. Neither warm nor cool. The pathos was warm with a slight valve taste. No more details were detected. The audiolab 600a was slightly more dynamic and the mids really popped out to the front of the stage. Depending on pairing could be good or a bad thing. These different amps have their place when paired well but imo the v3mono is just a neutral no fuss amp that works well with most speakers. It simply flavours the signal less than any other amp ive tried.

[@mevdinc]

I think speaker positioning is one of the most important things to improve sound quality. I had this amazing ATC EL150 Active speaker based system in a dedicated and reasonably well treated room. While trying out different positions and toe-ins with my speakers, I discovered amazingly beautiful sound when the speakers were about 2 meters from the front and side walls and about the same distance from each other and from my listening position. These massive speakers just sounded like a huge pair of high quality headphones. I will never forget the experience, the music just sounded amazing with great sound stage, separation, depth and detail. Experiment with speaker positioning, it's free and you may end up with a pleasant surprise.

[@indyvin]

We have known about this for years. In a normal room, each speaker is heard by both ears. This cancels out, to a degree, the stereo effect. When you moved the speakers much closer to your listening position, you somewhat isolated the opposite ear from each speaker. I discovered this in the 1980's. I had brought home some room partitions from a trade show. I arranged them down the center of my listening room. This isolated the speakers. I experienced the same revelation as you. The soundstage opened up to an incredible degree. No change in equipment, regardless of cost, can achieve this dramatic improvement is soundstage realism.

[@cheapaudioman]

I’m offended that you were dismissive about the credence of Sith Audio Man rocks. It’s revolutionizing the audiophile world

[@Newrecordday]

I’m offended they are always out of stock. Someone really needs to get a hold of Elon to collect more of these precious minerals randy.

[@superd222tube]

I’m waiting for those moon rocks to be restocked too. Please let us know when they’re available Randy.

[@wegardfjeld3789]

If you guys want I have some true class A grade high fidelity air in a pressure can for just 2999$. They come with a golden gold finish. It really airs the room for a better musical sounding feeling and the gold finish makes it shine. Just tell me how many you want I can produce a bigger amount really fast 😉.

[@TheVeganVicar]

Randy, are you VEGAN, or are you an animal-abusing criminal, Silly Sinful Slave?

[@carlitomelon4610]

​@@stevesmith3033 Sever or severe? Did you have them surgically removed?😅

[@mikecees2230]

I'm not sure I understood the message here. To sum it up...are you saying that these El Cheapo amps are "OK" but fall flat when it comes to soundstage? Then what might the next step up be that does the whole enchilada? Just give me a few suggestions to start with. Thanks

[@bstatmeister]

V3 monos are revolutionary. They even sounstage better than my previous amp with my Vandersteen 2Cs. Can't wait to hear your review with the Sparkos. I think that will be the key to getting more soundstage.

[@TheConnoissumer]

The Sparkos indeed open the soundstage tremendously.

[@The340king]

I setup my stereo out into a room for a wedding dance. I pulled up Allison Krause "When you say nothing at all" from a computer file. The sound was absolutely incredible. You could hear the reflections off the studio walls just as if you were sitting in the perfect spot. It was amazing as the room was far from perfect, yet there was this intricate 3d sound stage. I tried one of the baby amps with a tube pre-amp. I haven't unpacked them yet after moving 2 years ago. There are things where the small amps might not be able to compete. Dynamic headroom is where the heft of a copper high efficiency transformer comes into play. This may be most notable on low impedance speakers. I will wait and see what you learn. I would specifically put them to task with both high and low impedance speakers.

[@zenfishbike]

Excellent consideration and presentation Ron. I particularly like your summary that suggests continued developments may rock the industry, but not just yet. Well done.

[@FOH3663]

Late 70's, I walk in my best friend's girlfriend's house ... I'm greeted with glorious ADS three-ways, three or four feet off the front wall, and a single loveseat for listening! WTF? This is awesome! The ADS' had a product I think was called "Echo-Muffs" behind them ... a three sided foam absorption piece to place between the speakers and the front wall. I believe my official introduction was via HP's Rule of Thirds.

[@JG-gg9wk]

For most of us it's HiFi on the cheap. If your happy that's all that natters. The mind is wonderful, it can convince us we've found the Holy Grail. Now I've been to Audio shows, heard some rather outlandishly priced gear. Sublime comes to mind, if one has success in their life and can afford the prices by all means. For the rest good enough is good enough

[@michaelbarrett2855]

Good on ya Ron!! I appreciate your opinions and the truth you spread to us the viewer. Rock on.

[@derekedlund1854]

The cool thing about the audio world is that it is subjective and constantly changing. I love everyone's different takes and experiences. I personally own a Fosi V3 paired with a P-1 tube preamp and SMSL Su-1 and love what it did for my Aon 3's. I know there is better but I think these little Digital amps are a great stepping stone for those of us without the means to fund the better gear. Much love Ron. Always respect your opinions. 🖖

[@Newrecordday]

Thanks for sharing!

[@bk3720]

I think class D amps are a great thing, light weight, efficient, decent sound quality and portabiluty. But, they sometimes have a fatiging quality if listened to for too long. For hifi use I prefer either traditional solid state or vacuum tube, both with polyproplene bypass capacitors. The class D amps ive heard ( cheap Parts express, Amphion Amp100 and even the Dutch and Dutch 8c) seem to lack a little smoothness or depth of sound that I can get out of a modded traditional amp.

[@Gersberms]

The room and the space around speakers are so incredibly important.

[@DoctorRevers]

Boy do we need more content like this. Much appreciated. Looking forward to the follow up.

[@Exgol2005]

Heard them. Huge improvement but not yet my new endgame. Class A and muscled, old school AB still rule my room

[@hunkydorian]

You've got the hat, you've got the beard, you've got the printed black t-shirt. Where are your tattoos?

[@eightrodway]

Love the Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. I still have mine.

[@koblongata]

Yes, sound stage, especially the depth, is one of the most important factor for me to determine if it is a good gear too.

[@jamesmansion2572]

How do you think an amplifier affects that? Seriously - small signal in - bigger signal out with both voltage uplift and current capability. Some load dependency in some amps, also some overall frequency shaping: it can be measured, quantified. What is the engineering behind 'affects the soundstage' in an amplifier (or DAC, or preamp, for that matter)?

[@koblongata]

@@jamesmansion2572 It's about noise level mostly I believe, when using a clean isolation or regen power or even battery, it drasically improves depth. And simple amps like this are inherently less noisy. But for sure I would say DAC makes the biggest difference in this regard (and the power supplying it too). edit: and this is why high-end amps put a lot of efforts into their power sections.

[@larrylevan3378]

@@jamesmansion2572 THIS!

[@larrylevan3378]

@@koblongata LOL, DACs....haha

[@RacingAnt]

@@koblongata funny. Numerous studies have been done that show that INCREASING noise can increase the perception of soundstage depth. That's one of the reasons why these little amps, with vanishingly low levels of noise, have flat soundstages. Oh, and modern, close mic'ed recordings, don't have soundstage depth information to start with.

[@tpn8402]

Nice, Ron 👍🏻 This was a good video, I like.

[@user-cm3wd5hk1p]

Hey Ron, I just want to say there are several KZbin audiophiles that I don’t watch anymore because they are pompous in their responses or sometimes even hateful. And frankly, sometimes they come off like shills. I have never felt that way about you and your content. It always comes off as a straight. “This is what I hear” You do a great job and are very articulate. I do not have the space or time to do what you have done for sound. But I moved away from an AVR years ago and use a Bluesound Node for the TV eARC and have a vintage Sansui Eight that I had restored completely. To say that I love the sound is an understatement. My next upgrade will be better speakers but I have little ones and I’m not going to risk that right now.

[@Newrecordday]

Amazing! So happy you are enjoying it!

[@johnthornton3863]

Ron, Appreciate your explaining your preferences. Gives your excellent reviews context.

[@Douglas_Blake]

I agree completely with your exposition on speaker placement. However; I also tend to agree with the quoted comment at the beginning of the video. Many people, deliberately or otherwise, are making essentially the same mistakes. They get a nice beefy AB amp like the TS-A75 and immediately hook it up to a nice set of floor standing speakers. But when they're working with the mini-amps, out come the bookshelf speakers on lollipop stands. There is an association between small amp and small speakers that actually doesn't stand up well beyond arbitrary belief. Seriously, the V3Mono is a real honest to goodness 200 watt monoblock... treat it as such... cut it loose on some Evos, LaScallas or L-100s... you just might be surprised. Right now the Texas Instruments TPA3255 is ruling the roost. It's interesting that all the little amps in your video use that chip. Of course they're going to be similar in performance and price... they're essentially just wrappers around the same chip. Understand one, you got them all. Except for differences in pre-amp sections or output filters, they are all pretty much the same. On a 48 volt power supply you can expect an honest to goodness 100watts on 8 ohms or 200 on 4. So, treat them as such... cut them loose on the same speakers you'd use for that traditional cement block sized 100 per, amplifier. In other words ... compare apples to apples... I think you'll be glad you did. I recently A-B tested an original A07 (also TPA3255) against a TS-A75, driving Pioneer towers. After getting them level matched, a few clicks of the relays and I was sufficiently confused that I had to actually look to see which was playing. Revolutionary? No. Magical? No. Just technology marching forward. Our task is to try to keep up.

[@lifein240p8]

wow you guys are so passionate about this stuff

[@mikorist1804]

I have SMPS DC Filter P089ZB x 4 in the parallel (find on diyaudio forum) - for Fosi V3 + Sparkos. You can't believe what the soundstge is with this. Unbelievably good.The difference is incredible. This is a completely different sounding amp all the way with that filter.....

[@iwanoutmans3537]

1000x thank you. I put my loudspeakers an extra 2 feet into the room. The difference is amazing!

[@harrysimms6742]

I recently purchased a smsl a0300 and connected them to an old pair of celestion bookshelf speakers, over 25 years old. I use the bluetooth LDAC codec to stream apple music. I was pleasantly surprised at the sound quality. I use it for nearfield listening. Admittedly I'm not an audiophile but for £160, I can't fault this amp. I would highly recommend it.

[@liamporter1137]

Hey, I bought the same amp too. It's pretty good compared to my other more expensive, bigger and heavier amps. I've made my comment.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

I've got the Loxjie-a40 which is basically the same but with a phono preamp and it's ridiculously good for the money. (I don't use the phono pre though, it's definitely for desperates only)

[@giottodiotto1]

​@@crazyprayingmantis5596 loxjie A40 is almost the same as smsl 300, i had both,first the smsl, sounded good but within two days stopt working, send it back and bought the loxjie, same sound ( very good) but this keeps working😂

[@bin-siewlim2191]

I listen to my music through a pair of Focal Bathys. They sounded great to me. Previously, for some 30 years, it was a pair of floor standing KEF 104. Good music.

[@JoJo-bz5pp]

Well done. I have had a similar journey and my experience mirrors your own thus far. I returned several of these units(various brands) until I hit on a winning combo. Fosi Audio ZA3 running full gain. I have 3 I run in a horizontal tri amped active crossover setup. They sound fantastic. Sound stage is amazing. I did not like them until I started running them full volume. One point that should be mentioned more is the price. It truly is one of the biggest factors when talking about these mini options. I can buy a stack of these and have an utter blast goofing around. I would never be able to experiment and experience what mono blocks and/or active crossovers offer without the price break these afford. Thanks again for a great video. And you are dead on about sound stage. Once it is truly experienced it is extremely hard to be concerned with equipment that does anything other than improve it.

[@RacingAnt]

This is the way I believe these amplifiers will revolutionise the hi-fi industry. They will make active speakers mainstream. Remove the junk that is passive crossovers from the mix, and open up what speaker drive units can do when directly connected to the amplifier. The biggest issue with these cheap amps (driving low impedance, high bandwidth, complex loads) is also mitigated by using one per drive unit without crossover components adding huge phase swings and effective impedance dips.

[@anxiousappliance]

@@RacingAnt Gotta say that my svs prime wireless pros back this up. Class D and DSP = a lot of very good noise in a compact form.

[@keith6872]

Screw all that BS and just enjoy the music with EQ and warm speakers.

[@RacingAnt]

If that works for you, then sweet. But, have you heard what NRD is talking about? Do you know what you're missing out on? Until you've heard it, you can't dismiss it as BS. Otherwise, you're the toddler screaming they don't like something they haven't tried.

[@keith6872]

@@RacingAnt I have heard it with select recordings, but not all. Most of everything I listen to is not recorded well. And most everything that is recorded well I do not like. For instance most all of steve guttenburgs selections I do not like, but they do image well and all that other BS.

[@timharbert7145]

​@@RacingAntyeah, and I'm not willing to spend years of lifetime and thousands of dollars chasing equipment to indulge the consumption of a commodity. Audiophiles are brain damaged.

[@davelistenstohifi]

​@@keith6872listen to a system that is resolving and has wonderful soundstage and you may be surprised how many recordings are actually pretty good. 'Poor recordings ' is not often the case i find once you start using really good sounding equipment.

[@RacingAnt]

@keith6872 I hear you 🙂 Most modern music is recorded with multiple close mics, without any spatial information to reproduce. This hobby should be all about enjoying your favourite music, and discovering new music to enjoy. Getting a system that does this, and can reproduce a soundstage in those rare recordings that are both enjoyable musically and well recorded is the goal. Mine needs to play a jazz trio recorded live in a small venue, Megadeath, and everything in between.

[@bobtowncarguy82]

I love the fact that there are options for consumers to enter this hobby that aren't $1k and up. Its good to have these less expensive speakers and amplifiers to get people started.

[@joeycastillo1496]

I can attest that Ron’s LOTS procedure on speaker placement revealed the soundstage that I was searching all this time. And since then I had a high respect for his process and opinions.

[@Newrecordday]

Heck yeah!

[@raeelliott8880]

You just added a new flavor to your channel and now you have my attention. So please carry-on.

[@falconquest2068]

I certainly appreciate your integrity Ron!

[@paulsomers1039]

LOTS changed my life for music. Nuff said!

[@spedracer55]

Ironically the best soundstage ive heard and i cannot seem to replicate was from stereo ikea bluetooth speakers😂

[@dragosthule]

I have numerous chifi mini amps. They all sound fine. They don't sound great. My sprout100 is not that much, and is not worth comparing it is so much better. They have their place, and are a great way to get into better audio for cheap. But to say they are making all amps obsolete, is like saying dayton audio b65's are making all other speakers obsolete. If all that is required is clean power, Crown amps has you covered, for the last 60 years. Yet, hifi still exists.

[@Monkeyseemonkey79]

I own both the Sprout and the v3 monos and I think the v3 sounds far superior. A lot more meat on the bone, cleaner and smoother high frequencies. The most noticeable improvement is soundstage - that's a standout with the v3. The Sprout sounds harsh and primitive in contrast. For the money, the v3 is a game changer. If someone is trying to build a new system on a budget I would 100% recommend starting with a Wiim Ultra and the v3 Monos. The EqQ and sub/bass management of the Wiim Ultra, paired with the heft of the v3 Monos is seriously impressive.

[@steveh545]

Sometimes you just want to jam, going about your business. Toys in the Attic came on…the radio…in my 20 yr old Land Cruiser, and I enjoyed the hell out of it. Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t sound better on an expensive rig, just means music can be enjoyed almost anywhere for any price. Until my kids leave the house, not much chance I’ll have a room dedicated to audiophile level sound, with speakers pulled out. One day maybe. I’ll be mid-fi for awhile.

[@NightFlight1973]

Its a different animal, completely ignores sound stage. I was introduced to high end at a young age and now its impossible to untie that knot. I did ignore high fi for a number of years, and I've since realized I was missing a lot. I've been there. Married without the capacity or time to invest in equipment and be myself. That's the critical part... to be yourself and invest in you. I have a new girlfriend of going on 4 years. She doesn't understand my hobby but understands its a part of me and who I am.

[@steveh545]

@@NightFlight1973 I’m just saying that no one aspect of sounds/music matters all the time. Chi-fi isn’t for everyone, but it’s better than an old rca stereo from sears. And even those served their function and made people happy at some point in their lives

[@thomasalexand]

Speakers on stands and pulled out. Lovely. If only. My stands are in another room. My speakers are on wall brackets. My partner, she doesn't like clutter.

[@usaturnuranus]

This is the key to the magical sound kingdom - getting those speakers located properly is a fundamental requirement for those who really care about recorded sound reproduction. Get it right and the timbre, locality, depth, and transparency of instruments (to include the vocal instrument) will follow suit if the electronics are even halfway decent. In any case do this before throwing more money at your system - quite the ROI as it's usually free.

[@thomasdix8453]

Good stuff, Ron.

[@jeffgass89]

Great job Ron. Love your videos L.O.T.S.! And yes it works. A big beautiful opened soundstage is where it’s at in my book. Before, my system sounded two dimensional, dead flat. No depth, and very little separation. Whether it was a crappy recording, or a wonderfully engineered soundtrack, it didn’t matter, it all sounded the same. Now, I can tell when Willie steps up to the mic a little closer and starts Hello Walls, or I can hear the labored breathing in Over the Rainbow from the big Iz. Your reviews are informative and educational, and above all, your wisdom is greatly appreciated. Keep being you brother!

[@alanm.thornton4055]

Dude I just saw those old speakers you had for sale, (the black and white photo of you on the floor in front of your couch, @ 6:16). Great video, honest and informative.

[@jurekwiater]

You nailed it!

[@RUMBLEGO1]

Kudos for the vid Ron and for keeping it classy! Appreciate you! Actually just picked up the Douk A100 last week and have many hours on it now. I have had large horn speakers with SET 300B amps and a nice tube preamp. That was a sweet sounding system but no longer have the room. I do however have that tube amp which cost around 1K. I put that in front of this Douk A100 and I am hear to tellz ya all...that is the best I have heard some recordings out of my current speakers(Mirage 0M9's). They are about 5 ft into the room. One recording i listen to often to evaluate sound is the Last of the Mohicans movie Soundtrack. Never sounded this good to me and even with the George Wright 300B SET amps. Go figure. For the $100 i was able to score the Douk for last week when they were running their 50% off sale, ...can't beat it. Hell i would have thought it was $100's of dollars more. Also...i do own the Fosi V3 as well. The Douk is the winner. The Fosi does dig a touch deeper and stronger but the A100 has everything else in spades. The mids and lower mids are incredible and the highs much nicer. Anywhooo....that's my 2 cents. Maybe that is more like a dime now with inflation.

[@Newrecordday]

Thanks for sharing your feedback!

[@anxiousappliance]

FYI - Inflation is around 3% (you'll look back longingly on that), and hey - you got 50% off - that's deflation.

[@nexarium]

You are very knowledgeable, thanks for sharing your experience with us. I will check your LOTS video, wondering if I will ever be able to experience a true soundstage on my little room powering KEFs LSX II + KC62.

[@sonofsandwiches6892]

I replaced a large, old Class A/B amplifier from Linn Audio, that cost $1300 back in 1995. Bought a preamp and amp from Aiyima (Tube T10 preamp and A08 pro Amp), and they drive my 6 ohm two way bookshelf speakers with authority. And, they have digital inputs (USB and Fiber Optic) that my old integrated lacks. Cost for both was about $225 for the both of them. Chi-fi may get a bad wrap, but it should still be given a chance. Getting these for so cheap allowed me to spend more money on my turntable setup instead.

[@liamporter1137]

I bought a relatively cheap amp, i.e. SMSL AO300. It's cheaper, lighter, smaller than my 3 other amps, i.e. Marantz, Audiolap and Kinki Studio. The SMSL is pretty good. These traditional amp companies should pay attention and innovate quickly or else, they'll disappear due to technology disruption.

[@TombstoneTube]

Did you prefer the SMALL to the Kinki Studio? I have the r EX M1

[@peterandersson6762]

Hi Ron! You are Awesome! Knowlidgeble an funny!🙏

[@mocomike01]

Ron, have you tried A/B comparisons, via sound clips, of one of these inexpensive chip based/class D amps vs something like your electrocompaniet amp? Im curious if soundstage would translate in one of your soundclips. If it does, then people would have the ability to listen and decide for themselves.

[@johngutmanis3204]

I had the same experience with my Klipsch Heresy IV’s. Ten feet from the front wall, toed in they intersected a foot in front of me and they disappeared and I got a 3D sound stage! I also built a pair of class D mono amps that sound as good as my beloved 105lb McIntosh mc352. This technology is going to revolutionize our hobby.!

[@mannyf1288]

Can't wait. I hope you cover the "right" preamps when you do these tests.

[@hartyewh1]

I agree that amps make a difference, but a $70 Aiyima sounds great on my Revel F228Be's. Not as good as the Hegel H390 that they're paired with, but for the same budget getting better speakera first can often make sense.

[@r423fplip]

Nonsense.

[@hartyewh1]

@r423fplip Which part?

[@zenmen73]

Ron, like you I’m a fan of soundstage and my room is well treated too! I’ve bought two fosi za3 for fun. First try, in stock stereo mode, I would have thrown them in the garb.. period. Then i decide to add OP amp in both of them using them as mono amp and I disconnect all the input and output chips I was’t using… forcing those little thing to focus on my needs. Then I place them close to my speakers with only 1 feet speaker cables 😆 …So I went from I hate them to ok they can sound good ´´not high end class’’ but good. That’s it. So with a good pair of speakers and a well treated room they can sound good …that’s it, no fireworks.. sorry !

[@don1946]

Ron appreciate your thoughts about these little amps I can only add that they are really good cheap FUN.

[@andyreichert499]

I think what gets missed in these discussions is secondary systems. I've spent quite a bit of time and money on my main system, and I love it for dedicated listening. But I also play music in my office while I work. I've tried taking my laptop and working while my main system plays music, but it's too engaging and it makes it hard to work. So for my office system, I don't want to spend thousands, I have to prioritize things like screen space and zoom calls. But I just cannot stand muffled, veiled sound. The improvements in the low end over the past 20 years I've been doing this are amazing, and you can get so much more for under $1000 today than you could back then. So for things like office, bedroom, or even TV setups that aren't dedicated listening, these products are amazing. They just aren't up to the capabilities of dedicated listening, and that's ok.

[@charlesclifton5896]

After (recently) having set up my new Schiit amp/dac system with my also fairly new speakers.... this happened.. While sitting back and throughly enjoying my system, I had to lean forward about 2 feet to see my CD player's screen . (small room) Suddenly I froze. While in that forward position my ears/brain heard sound stage that was so noticeably deep and open that I was actually very surprised. Leaning back to my previous position the sound was still good BUT I could not unhear that sound stage heard while "simply" leaning forward. So, I have not learned about LOTS but I will and do whatever it takes to enjoy what I heard which was "wonderful". I believe this is relevant to what you are talking about Ron.

[@thomasalexand]

Very true.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

Positioning your ears is very important. I have a device suspended from the ceiling (kind of like what you'd see in a SAW movie) it's in the perfect sweeetspot position, I lock my skull 💀 in it so when I'm listening I physically can't move my ears from that position. But I'm a HARDCORE Audiophile, this is very serious business 😂

[@charlesclifton1006]

@@crazyprayingmantis5596 Interesting and thanks

[@cineaudiophile4465]

As someone who has played a small part in the genesis of this 'revolution' (I was the first to tout the TPA chipset many of these amps are based in the diy world a decade ago, which snowballed into Chi-fi brands making retail versions) - it is amusing to see my early cheerleading from a subjective perspective become co-opted by the measurements crowd. Parts quality and implementation still matter. There's a reason an LSA Warp-1 TPA3255 amp is $1500 vs. $200 Ayima/Fosi etc. The cheap amps are great value for the money but the game-changing part is still pay to play. There's no free lunch. And as mentioned in another post the TPA-based amps really shine with a tube pre.

[@northa4021]

By the way, great video, looking forward to the follow up.

[@KTown-BC]

Well stated video Ron. Would be interested to see how these small amps work on High Efficiency, Mid Efficiency and Low Efficiency speakers.

[@earthoid]

I spent many dollars on a very nice amp and speakers about 15 years ago. It still sounds great to me but I'm starting to think I should explore some of these new cheap amps. I also think that speaker tech has greatly improved since then so I should probably look at upgrading those. Unfortunately I don't have enough space to let the speakers properly breathe so soundstaging will always be compromised. I do what I can but I know I'm missing a lot.

[@bikall1]

"wall of sound" that is exactly how i explaine my magnapan LRS soundstage.

[@MrDingaling007]

I have an expensive system, and also a cheap system comprised of diy made fostex backloaded horns and a low power tripath amp. And i have to say this particular combo has some real magic to it. Sometimes you can find a really good combo with certain speakers and amps.

[@stijnvanderlooy5311]

What a great video. Thank you sir!

[@Newrecordday]

Very welcome!

[@MayonaiseSailor]

Chi fi, elevated the bottom of the ladder to a level that will force all the game to elevate it self...

[@juqual78]

Good. That being said when that happens many times the US will just put tariffs because they can't compete. China makes the best solar panels at the cheapest price so we banned those.

[@michaelwright1602]

It is a GREAT time to be into audio!

[@jayjay9932]

@@michaelwright1602 Indeed!

[@mikelo303]

New speakers technology is the only way. Say, planar magnetic headphones for example. Totally different sound resolution compared to every classic designs. Simple as that. Just by technology. So big speakers next. But how?

[@dar._]

​@@mikelo303... Magnepans? Open baffle? Ribbon drivers? Headphones typically inherit speaker tech.

[@purplerider2362]

I have an emotiva dr2. My daughter wanted a similar system. So I got her these cheap little fosi amp and pre amp. Thing is amazing for how small it is

[@edd2771]

Can you explain generally, WHY these small amps, as a group, don’t create the soundstage you are looking for? What is it about the technology that, in most cases, for you, creates this deficit?

[@matthewpeterson3329]

This is also my question. It felt like he got to the moment he was gonna tell us why they wouldn't hold up, and immediately started talking about speaker location and room treatment. Both of these make a difference in SQ, and he tested those amps in his sound shed, so what's the deal? Was there a lack of sound stage with them, because I watched that video and I don't remember it being mentioned. Ron is awesome, but this felt more like a rant and less like offering proof that the little amps can't perform as well for a reason. We need a reason, in the treated shed, why they don't perform.

[@Newrecordday]

@matthewpeterson3329 give me some time - I’m working on it.

[@realworldaudio]

If there was an easy / straightforward / obvious reason, the builders of the amps would have addressed it already. However, this problem is not new, the audio industry has been struggling with it at every era. One thing has been a constant during all the technology changes for the past century in audio: the new technologies always struggle with soundstaging, and also with natural tone / natural sound. Not a big shocker, as all the new technologies focus on giving more power at a lesser cost, that is the focus of the development, with developers usually entrenched in the engineering fronts with very little exposure to music / trained musician ears.

[@lisar3944]

@@realworldaudio well...I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk but the most notoriously "holographic" amps you can get are tube driven. That means lots of distortion - it's "good" distortion,of the harmonic variety, but I suspect a large part of the problem with these über perfectly measuring amps is that they throw out the good, natural sounding stuff along with real noise. It's well known that harmonics have a deep impact on psychoacoustics and this is *allegedly* what makes tubes sound so spacious and deep in the stage.

[@ShutterNChill]

@@lisar3944 You got that exactly. Omission is the unreported, unmeasured dark hole. Distortion has two main branches - omission and comission, and the one talked about and measured is exclusively the comission. What the amp adds. And what is taken away is not measured, not considered, but very easily noticed by keen / even not so keen observers. The problem with the seemingly uber-perfect measuring amps is that they are actually very far from perfect, and they are only uber in a few metrics only at snap-shots. However, looking at not the distortion value measured at an arbitrary power dissipation (which means little to nothing by itself), but looking at the distortion profile, the profiles completely mis-match the psyho-acoustic profile of the human auditory system, while the no feedback SETs match it, so to our human brains the SETs feel natural, and the uber-measurers appear unnatural.

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

Right ! .........i discoverd that in the seventies when pulling out my Kef speakers in the middle of the room...

[@andrewbrazier9664]

" Where do we go from here ?Rock On" 🎶🔊 - David Essex 😀

[@JR-ho5qm]

I bought a SMSL AO200. It’s decent for the price, but I find the cheap amps just don’t have the same oomph as a higher build quality amp. Even in my garage system I bought it for it just wasn’t cutting it. I replaced it with A Yamaha RN803 and am much happier with its performance. That’s my experience

[@ufarkingicehole]

Smsl a0200 is OK for the price. The Ayima a07 and some offerings from fosi are even better. They are getting better every year that passes. Do they sound as good as my cambridge cxr200, rotel amps, parasound amps? No. BuT they are good enough to make me have to rethink everything I thought I knew.

[@fatboyvin]

​@@ufarkingiceholetry to get a good ass dac that has good synergy, and you will be pleasantly surprised. In my case, it beats most of my more expensive integrated class ab amps!

[@ufarkingicehole]

@fatboyvin I've gone through a dozen Dacs to include Cambridge Audio dac magic, smsl 400, loxjie 70, Geshelli J2, Pegasus, etc... The A0200 is not bad for what it is. I've heard better like the smsl A300, A07, Fosi v3, cheap Sony integrateds, and a few others. The chifi is so much better than it was even 5 years ago. It is not a $1000 amp killer like many present them to be, nor should it be. I will also say I prefer a decent tube pre with these class D amps. A ton of positive reviews on complete junk but I have found some cheap tube pre amps that work well. As far as a Dac goes, the Geshelli J2 is fantastic with most class D amps. It helps "warm" it up a bit.

[@christophertapkins7515]

I think we finally hit a point where we can finally get quality power for not much money. I don't think they are game changers and make hi end amps obsolete. The tpa3255 is a great chip that can satisfy most amp needs but they still cant hold a candle to other class D amps like hypex or purifi. I don't want to hate on these amps because we need good quality budget amps and I think these amps would be a final upgrade to most people who want to experience great hifi for cheap and can power a majority of speakers. But when it comes to the big boy speakers with demanding loads, these just wont cut it.

[@raymondallo9947]

My 30 year old Quad 66/606 will stay with me until I die. I had them internally upgraded 8 years ago ( a company in Belgium sells upgrade sets) and it even sounds better. I had Quads since I was 20 (33/303). I am 68 now. They serve me well. I replaced speakers over the years. I have a set of first gen Home pods in my study and every one was raving about those. I bought them cheap as they were discontinuing. They are ok, but I think they were way over hyped. Same with some Schitt. Nice, but my Quads run rings around them.

[@boomerscs9193]

I've been holding off on adding the Sparkos to my Fosi V3 monos (and soon to be received ZD3 dac). Can't wait for your thoughts on the SS3602s. Thanks.

[@mikecees2230]

Don't want to be a party pooper and bias anyone's findings but... I originally ordered them along with some OPA2134 and OPA1656 for a ZA3. Left the Sparkos in for a few months, then decided to put the original 5532s back in. I ended up selling the Sparkos, still haven't tried the other two. I'm not saying the Sparkos suck, I just didn't find the results convincing enough since they cost more than the amp itself (my ears, my room, my system, bla, bla, bla) Waiting for a rainy day to try the other two out but honestly don't have very high expectations. I've got a pair of XLR cables on the way, we'll see what that brings to the table.

[@boomerscs9193]

@@mikecees2230 I’ve seen a huge difference with XLR cables.

[@jondonnelly3]

I think it's time for fully active systems. No crossovers everything in the digital domain, that means seperate amps for tw mid and woofer and lots of processing power. It's what the ICE are doing, you can get 14 channel class d amps with DSP now for not that much money and create any kind of sound you want and get the max out of speakers. That is the real revolution.

[@dwdrum11]

I have a dsp amp in my car, best sounding system I own is in my rs4 on the drive! Each driver fully active and it’s all eq’d using data from a mic. Got to be the way for home audio to go!

[@Simon-dn9kv]

That’s probably the best video I saw on this channel and I almost didn’t watch it because the title was too clickbaity and didn’t give (to me) a hint what the video is about.

[@bayard1332]

What has to be understood with these bits of kit is that they ship with not so super great power supplies, opamps and tubes in order to keep the price down and the companies that make them fully expect you to upgrade the power supplies, opamps and tubes as your budget and sound desires grow. It's possible to get pretty darned good sound from some of them, but it should be obvious that a higher priced units built with top tier parts is going to up the game over these. But you can get a decent way up the audio ladder with these units and some upgrades.

[@SoundDeliver-wz8tz]

I stumbled across a topping pa3s with a ifi signature Dac and paired it with qacoustic 5010 and it’s ended up sounding better than my much more expensive traditional hifi set up?? I was surprised

[@SoberBassHead]

Not sure if this has been brought up but the Texas Instruments chip set is revolutionizing the game (as long as you have the power supplies they make serious power). Sure it is not only about power but power with great processing and you have something very special.

[@veristaconvicto]

I have been getting great results using TDA3255 boards with linear power supplies. The result is always better than the switching power supplies that come with these amplifiers. I make my own power supplies using high-end capacitors. If you connect one of these amplifiers with high-quality speakers (always monoblocks) the quality is surprising. It surpasses many systems considered top-of-the-line. However, when I compare it with my kt88/150/Duelund Capacitors, the mids are thin and the soundstage is less deep. It lacks that realism that only good tube amps have.

[@2madamimadam290]

I used a pair of Ayiama AA07 for center and surround channels. Didn't bother to compare against a beefy 2 chan amp. Efficient, small, and do fine for movie vocals and surround raindrops and sound effects.

[@BrentLeVasseur]

Hey Ron, I’ll be in Dallas Nov 1-3 for CanJam. Will you be around?

[@KeithHeinrich]

I replaced onboard nCore amplification for a pair of the Fosi V3 monos as a toe in the water pending some sort of upgrade. Brought the speakers to life for not much money. Bang for buck, right now I doubt the Fosi V3 mono can be beaten. The head unit has Dirac, system sounds epic.

[@jeffreybritton3338]

I first heard about class D sounding good from Ed Schilling at The Horn Shoppe with the old guy $20 Tripath. These were claimed to sound great with his single drivers. I bought one and thought it seemed very good for driving a single full range driver. I have often suspected this is where they shine. If one has a complex load maybe they don’t do as well. I don’t know, just a thought.

[@greenman1282]

Lots changed how I listen to music and movies. Everyone should try it at least once

[@AmericanAudiophile]

Good stuff Ron. There is way too much hype and hyperbole in this business, glad to hear your feet on firmly on earth.

[@edverbeek6292]

Those moon rocks are great

[@goncalocaetano1011]

Bravo 👏🏻

[@TexasCorgiGun]

People who spend a lot of money on overpriced 200 pounds "audiophile grade" amplifiers will always try to justify their purchases.

[@bigb2020]

Vacuuming is the source of enlightenment

[@lastscatteringsurface9950]

What the heck, I was buying class d mini amps 20 years ago. They sound exactly the same now. Which is pretty good.

[@pennesalmone]

What is the message here? That a 100 buck amp does not reproduce the soundstage of a 100k system? Sure but I doubt that people who talk about revolution ment that. The revolution in my eyes is that you can get a sound for 1000$ that a couple of years ago (and still) would have cost 5000. And that for 5000 you can get a sound that costs 20.000 still today. The revolution is that superb sound quality is not anymore the privilege of the wealthy (and the nerds). And that IS quite a change in my eyes.

[@zorst99]

I have an Aiyima A007 amp and I did replace the op amps in them but I used some upgraded Burr Brown op amps. They have very good specs. Opa2604p op amps. When I first tried the amp I thought I was hearing some small issues but after changing the op amps everything has sounded great since. You wouldn't believe the speakers I have them matched with. :)

[@Hitsujiomeguruboken]

What about the soundstage of the Topping B100 or Topping B200? Compare them just with some „Audiophile“ Stuff for USD 80.000,- ! If you would compare them blindfolded, you are astounished. But I guess that will never happen……

[@fatboyvin]

yep, he never mentions smsl and topping amps which are actually great, but it is always fosi audio, douk or aiyima with him *sigh*

[@daveapex493]

Ron, Speaking of music sounding so right with using relatively new ideology. - When I was visiting the quite a few rooms at the Pacific Audio Fest 2024, one of the 3 rooms that really impressed me was using the Vanatoo Encore Plus mated with a single Roger Sound Labs Speedwoofer 10S Mk 2. So, my request is - Maybe you could get a pair in for a NRD review ($700)? - For a little under $1200, this combo was very enjoyable to listen to (I will spare all of the audiophile details and verbiage - that's your job). The revolutionary part, $1200 is it. No amplifier matching needed, no expensive cables to consider, and so forth. Maybe, just a good set of stands for the Vanatoos and room placement experimenting for the subs. Anyway, please consider as it seems like you have cracked open the door a little in the realm this combination seems to thrive in. Thanks

[@grogmonster2408]

Tube buffers, used by many audio companies may be the answer to soundstage issue with class D amps. Look at amps from PS Audio, Peachtree etc etc, that's what they do, or have done. How about using a schiit Freya + in active mode with a V3 and see how it sounds ? Many will be interested to know how it sounds, including myself. That would make for a great review ! You are getting down to the nitty gritty of what audiophiles on budgets already know about class D. What we want to know is how to fix it. Eg tubes, ifi iTube, buffers, etc.

[@lisar3944]

but that flies in the face of those "perfect measurements" :D I don't disagree with you, by the way, but it's funny to strip out distortion of every kind then put it back via some tubes. Why are we doing this? The endless need to twiddle, it seems. Anyway I would very much like to see some experiments like this, too. I can't remember which channel it was but one dude coupled the za3 with an xduoo TA-66 as preamp and had some good things to say. It's unfortunate this thing is usually reviewed as a head amp only as it looks like a very interesting device! Anyway, yeah. I think this is the "answer" too. put the pleasing distortion back, please.

[@grogmonster2408]

The Fosi amps and other class D amps, are no doubt a bargain from a cost/ power/ and measurements point. But to get the soundstage and warmth improvement many want, it may involve the additiinal cost of tubes, which may then put the class D amps into the budget of class AB Amps which may be of lower power etc. If soundstage alone is what you are after, buy Bi polar speakers, eg Def Tech. If warmth is whatbyou want, buy tubes. Thats my experience anyway.