Crowdkilling Is Complicated

Let's talk a bit about crowdkilling! It's certainly a polarizing topic in the world of metal and hardcore music. Where does the culture come from and how do you differentiate someone actively being cruel and trying to hurt others vs. just part of the culture and territory and people having fun?!
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[@TheMetalTempestYT]

Crowdkilling can be pretty complicated to talk about if you're not aware of the origins and culture behind it, and why it's more nuanced than a lot of people treat it. It seems very extreme on either side of the fence and I thought it'd be fun to go into it from the perspective of someone who loves both metal & hardcore/screamo + has been involved in crowdkilling before. What're your opinions of crowdkilling?! Be sure to let me know down below!!!!!!! But for now, cheers, rock on, stay heavy and have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day or night, depending on when you see this!!!!!!! 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘

[@jaybowler3121]

So crowd killing literally involves people who are not actively in the pit. It is literally attacking the crowd, usually on the outskirts of the pit Hardcore dancing and karate moves are a completely different thing and completely acceptable and expected within the pit. The pit is the designated space to do that and if you're in the pit then you get what you get. But this isnt crowd killing Sorry but crowd killing is some pussy shit and you cant change my mind. Attacking innocent bystanders regardless of if they are in a beatdown, hardcore or power violence show is wrong

[@haramlasagne6685]

a beatdown show is a pit there is no place where there is no pit

[@Ian-ki2cq]

Everyone has different definitions of what crowdkilling is, some people thinking it is any sort of swinging around, while others say it is the intentional punching and kicking of people in the pit and on the edges of the pit. This unfortunately makes people more defensive and divided when the subject is brought up.

[@nephilimritual-band]

Agreed. Me and my buddy have had many o conversations about this and have come to the conclusion that if you see hardcore bands playing and you don’t want to do anything more than thrash style pushing, get out of the pit. Personally, I’m the guy by the bar enjoying my beer listening to the bands

[@sickjoe9174]

I'm too old for that shit now (43), but back in the 90s could you even say you went to a hardcore or death metal show if your arms and shit weren't bruised to hell and back? We're listening to violent music, with minds filled with violence before we arrive, and then you're gonna throw a live performance filled with like minded souls? I came to embody what I listen to in a 'safe' space and I expect to catch a few and I also expect to be helped up if I get knocked down. We all knew why we were there and if you weren't into it, you just stood a bit further back. Different folks have fun in different ways, so long as everyone is on board with what is goin on or worked out a system where the smaller groups can interact with themselves within the larger, seems the healthiest way to do it. A scene should manage itself really.

[@ItzBruce-po2bv]

Your raggedy hairstyle is literally enough to crowdkill, it's like I am looking at a tesco version of Griffith.

[@balisongflips7367]

This is the best explanation of the differences in moshing. I feel like the biggest thing is to feel the vibe, don’t hit people when no one else is involved in it and don’t push people who are hxc dancing. Just know what you are listening to and follow the music style

[@uneven_grooves]

Even knowing that some guys like to fight, i had no idea it was such a nuanced topic! I had assumed crowdkilling was always malicious

[@Blaze_1221]

I go to both Metal shows and hardcore shows. My opinion is that if you’re a hardcore dancer attending a Metal show, you have to have the maturity to keep to push pitting at a Metal show. Leave that shit at the punk shows. BUT if you’re a metal guy at a hardcore show and want to mosh, you better get ready for fists to fly. You have to have the responsibility to know what kind of mosh is appropriate at a type of show. Respect for different cultures must swing both ways

[@EdEddnEddyMercury]

Crowdkilling has left a sour taste in my mouth since the first time I experienced it. I was standing near the mosh pit but was clearly not involved in it and some asshole came swinging his arms around and knocked my phone out of my hand and gave my friend a black eye. Do what you want but keep that shit in the pit. I love a good old fashioned push pit but the second fists start flying, I’m gonna go find another pit. I’ve seen people get their nose broken in pits before and I don’t want that to be me.

[@brimphemus]

fugazi weren't about it so I wasn't about it. i love fugazi but recently i've been opening up my mind to crowdkilling. i think it's totally fine given that 1. you can distinguish where and when it's going to happen (if i go to a hardcore show i know what to expect. but if im seeing a metal band i'd expect a push pit instead) 2. people who get hurt know they will get hurt and are fine with it (not only are they willing participants but they will NOT bitch about getting hit or start fights about it) 3. don't go against the grain, if it's a push pit don't hit anyone and if it's a hxc pit don't push anyone that's all i got. also go easy on the girls i guess? i don't know

[@xangrycatmanx5104]

Fun fact, Fugazi not liking moshing/crowdkilling is the reason Hatebreed exists. Jamey talked about it on the Hardlore podcast

[@nephilimritual-band]

@@xangrycatmanx5104that’s super cool !

[@nephilimritual-band]

Agreed there man

[@theteaman3357]

What I've seen at gigs the people I've seen don't actively try hitting people unless its like their friend. But I've only gone to local, small ones. More likely where I am to get shoved and the like, one time me and a dude sorta tried to wrestle each other, gave up since we were basically built the same, hugged and carried on moshing. But the worst I've gotten by the people swinging their fists and spin kicking was maybe an accidental hit on the arm. But again, just local stuff where you see the same people over and over again and i've never gone to a festival or anything where I imagine people are worse.

[@peglord]

2:36 "and YOU dont mind if they hurt you either" some hardcore dudes need to get this across their mind. if you hit someone in the pit, they have every right to hit you back without you getting mad or starting a fight. if you dish it out you have to take it

[@Goats_]

Good video dude. I'm old & moldy, prefer to just enjoy the show. No opinion on it either way but I know comments help the algorithm, so rock on. 🤘😎

[@Thyinternet]

What Is Crowdkilling It sounds Like Moshing

[@Thyinternet]

Oh. Well yikes.

[@THERES_BEES_EVERYWHERE]

there was this one time my cousin Corey was at an As I Lay Dying show and someone kicked him in the face and his four front teeth were like fractured or smth so he had to go to the ER and they got him fixed up but they gave him opioids for painkillers and he just threw them in the toilet

[@Lunar_bloodreviews]

As I go to a lot more deathcore shows, I actually haven't seen as much crowd killing at those shows as I have at a fucking Dragonforce show.

[@Insanity_is_a_virtue]

What?????This feels wrong on so many levels…like what????Dragonforce…reallyy?

[@Lunar_bloodreviews]

@@Insanity_is_a_virtue yeah...

[@toomanyblocks8448]

How the fuck does that happen I'm lost for words

[@Lunar_bloodreviews]

@@toomanyblocks8448 I..don't know

[@maxheilman5314]

@@Lunar_bloodreviewsI personally think you don’t know what crowdkilling is

[@danframpt0n]

great video.

[@voxextremos22]

Question Jay. Do you think Venues that host both Metal and Hardcore bands on similar bills should set ruels about this. The Metal fans kinda want to just Mosh and headbang while the Metalcore/Deathcore fans are more likely to Hardcore dance and crowdkill. Just to there isn't miscommunication or confusion between bands, their fanbases and the venues. I personally am Opposed to it (being crows killing I saw a woman get punched by a crowd killer at an ABR show one.

[@spencerlilley2891]

Honestly this might be a hot take but i feel like if your at a beatdown show and on the very edge of the pit you should kinda expect to get hit, accident or on purpose as long as your not targeting anyone i think its fine

[@maddoxsane4946]

It isn't complicated, it's gay

[@TheMetalTempestYT]

Positive or negative? LMFAO

[@maddoxsane4946]

@TheMetalTempestYT hahaha shit man, I'm used to old school pits and some slam dancing and moshing at punk and metal shows. When I went to see seeyouspacecowboy, it was the very first time I seen, and felt crowd killing. I was mad as a mother fucker, heard the music and wanted to mosh but nope! Suddenly everyone stood back and a dude kicked my fucking face!

[@Lucas-dm7xo]

New profile again?

[@TheMetalTempestYT]

yup! changed pfp's to another image of my persona. :]

[@Clemsonfan-z1v]

​​@@TheMetalTempestYT looks good!

[@brandonharris9160]

Bands like Knocked Loose should have some sort of waiver and acknowledgement deal with the clubs to prevent the insanity of crowd killing fans from causing the bands or venues a liability. If people wanna sling themselves around foolishly and chaotically, they should have to be liable if they cause someone to have an injury with their carelessness and selfish lack of consideration for others

[@stoleyourroll5325]

Wow how very punk

[@herbicide2]

this is so lame

[@jmonsterclockmaster420]

scared retard KL ain’t even a mosh band like that mfs too popular

[@themadhattress5008]

If you fall or get hurt in a pit, 9 times out of ten, there will be someone to pick you up or pull you out. No one signs a fucking waiver because they know what they're getting into. Not that most hardcore bands really focus on the legal aspects if someone gets hurt at a show -- I'd expect the venue to care more tbh. Really though, community and mutual respect usually are a constant thing at hardcore shows. Your comment is totally asinine

[@jukeman9291]

I fucking hate crowdkillers at hardcore shows.

[@blondie6680]

lol

[@maxheilman5314]

Then don’t go to hardcore shows

[@rhythmmmmm.]

ah yes, another reason to never interact with core fans

[@KiaraStrings]

This is a good video. My last comment got deleted so I'm sorry about what I said.

[@isaackromer502]

Good shit

[@whsprLenYT]

where is that one romanian like flag?

[@smurxxx0910]

As a stoner teen who never paid much attention to aesthetics but enjoys heavy live music without caring much about subgenres I was used to moshing and crowd surfing until I ended up in a pit during poison the well at some festival. Everyone was moshing pretty much like normal until some kid in skinny jeans started throwing actual bows and kicks at me. I grew up in a crappy neighborhood so once I got hit in the face by a closed fist I just reacted and smashed dude in the jaw and folded him out. My friends had to stop me from keep stomping him when he fell and explained to me what slam dancing was. We then helped the kid up and he gave me a hug before windmilling back into the crowd. I just stayed out of the pits with the over Adderalled karate kids after that.