Doom of Hardhome: Ancient Mystery of Westeros

In A Song of Ice & Fire, Hardhome is far more mysterious than meets the eye in Game of Thrones. It became a ruin 600 years before ASOIAF begins, and no one knows what caused its destruction. In the books, Jon Snow plans to lead a rescue mission there to save the wildlings, but unlike in the show, he isn't able to go. So what caused the Doom of Hardhome? What will happen to the wildlings stuck there in The Winds of Winter? There are plenty of theories, so let's discuss.
Intro music:
"Above the Vast Clouds of the Aquamarine Peak" - Quest Master
questmaster.bandcamp.com/trac...
Art in thumbnail:
Melisandre by Drazenka Kimpel
Other by Ástor Alexander
Jon & Ghost by rene aigner
Pirate by Henning
Val by Drazenka Kimpel
Other with sword by Alquier Fabien
Darkstar animation & other art by Francy Sketches: nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tu...
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:15 Hardhome's History
2:32 Mission to Hardhome
7:00 Doom of Hardhome
8:00 Faceless Men
11:04 Rogue Dragonlord
13:57 Pirates
15:29 Meteor Air Burst
17:59 Volcano Stuff
20:04 Future of Hardhome
23:02 Last Words
#asoiaf #gameofthrones #houseofthedragon #asongoficeandfire

[@JOpalensky]

Now that I've read the majority of the books it's absolutely mind-blowing that the show writers rushed to outpace the books and strayed away from so many incredible storylines. Could have started a series of spin-offs similar to the way the Yellowstone series has rolled theirs out before the actual conclusion of the GOT series.

[@wingy200]

Young Griff, Tyrion/Penny and the Second Sons, Lady Stoneheart, Ser Barristan Selmy's regency of Meereen with Strong-MFin'-Belwas, Ser Davos' Northern Adventure, the Jeyne "Arya" Poole, Reek and Mance Rayder Winterfell Caper, Lord Too Fat to Sit a Horse's scheming and near-death in Winterfell, Victarion Greyjoy and his insane trip to Slaver's Bay with the Iron Fleet, King Stannis' awaited tactical masterstroke at Long Lake and subsequent victory at Winterfell (one true king. Bend the knee or be destroyed) and yes, I'm still HYPE AS F*CK for *C L E G A N E B O W L!!!* The list just goes on and on. I believe they were actively sabotaging the show by willfully ignoring all of these storylines, and more. At least HOTD is redeeming this IP after Dumb and Dumber missed the open-goal. Can't wait for A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

[@LeTrioMen]

@@wingy200if you don’t mind could you give an honest review of house of the dragons? after pouring so much time and love into GOT and it ending it a shit show i’m hesitant to get into new series so i’m wary of the new show

[@wingy200]

@@LeTrioMen Without giving too much away, I'll just say that season 1 HOTD starts off slow, but really starts to ramp up dramatically in the second half. The story is already completely fleshed out, so there's no chance that the ending can be messed up. I was wary too, but decided to give it a go because I'm an ASOIAF super fan. I wasn't disappointed. The first season sets up the tension for the Dance of the Dragons and it left me super hyped up for season two. I'd give it a solid 4/5. There were some things that were a little silly, but forgivable.

[@LeTrioMen]

@@wingy200 thank you for your comment. I find your review very informative and insightful about the show and will definitely make plans to watch season 1 then. the more i learn about the world of ASOIAF the more I yearn to see it come alive on screen.

[@liamh8926]

Spin offs would have been awesome. I guess the biggest issue was the actors. If they waited a few years the younger characters would have really aged up. Also thats assuming George would have released the next book in a timely manner lol. If they waited after season 5 all the stark kids and danerys and john would be way to old given its been 7 years and winds of winters still isnt out lol.

[@jorgemolina8011]

It was the children. They saw the potential of Hardhome becoming a Kingslanding like place, and that went against their pact. Remember, the children travel by cave, and they can work fire magic as well as water magic as they did with the breaking of the arm of Dorne.

[@oldnewdude9095]

I agree, but I like the meteor idea. Do you think that they could have called down a meteor to cause the destruction?

[@huskaroar6869]

Lfmao! Why you guys digging so hard for an answer that doesn't matter?

[@jorgemolina8011]

@oldnewdude9095 yes I think that's the next best answer to the mystery.

[@thalmoragent9344]

Yeah but why start another potential war, they didn't need to annihilate the place. And as for fire magics, the Children weren't well known for that, were they? Or perhaps they are, I'm not entirely sure

[@jorgemolina8011]

@thalmoragent9344 Go to Ken pendragon channel and he explains a lot better than I could lol

[@rhaenyraitargaryen6360]

Queen Alysanne probably knew about the threat in the North and how Targaryen dragons are needed to face the others, so it must've been a great concern for her when she found out that Silverwing won't fly over.

[@williamhermann6635]

Well if HOTD can be believed, it seems the Long Night/Others prophecy is something Aegon I was aware of even before he conquered Westeros so it would make sense that some of his descendants were aware too.

[@mori1bund]

IMHO there's a misconception in the video: Silverwing's problem wasn't flying north - it was crossing the wall, since the wall is a magical barrier. So if some Valyrians wanted to fly to Hardhome on their dragons, they probably wouldn't cross the wall at all, they would come from the seaside and have no issue reaching Hardhome. (That said, I don't believe the Valyrians are responsible for Hardhome.)

[@dawnb2057]

The wall itself prevents magical beings from passing. It likely prevents the nights king as much as it does the dragons. Cold hands made a statement about the wall basically being enchanted so creatures could not pass. It’s not the cold that prevented the dragon. They didn’t die through the winters in Westeros nor were they prevented from being in the north up to the wall. The point of hard home is that you can bypass the wall if one could manage to go by sea

[@dee-taylor]

YES. My favorite mystery from the series. When Mance, in the show, says "the biggest bonfire the North has ever seen." I'm over here thinking nah that one aint shit and a wildling should know that.

[@thalmoragent9344]

Lmao, yeah, that's fair. But perhaps he wouldn't call the tragedy that occurred there a "bonfire", as a joke

[@misskate3815]

I mean, mother mole was kind of right? The pirate ship had to be captured, but surely the wildling women and children were freed in Braavos, and are safe from both Others and Westerosi aggression.

[@momo7989]

This. They will have to adjust to the new place but they won't be judged as harshly

[@kitkat6959]

Probably one of the happier endings in the story

[@yeahkeen2905]

Not all of the Wildlings were freed though. Some were still taken to Lys or Tyrosh.

[@misskate3815]

@@yeahkeen2905 true😔

[@td8633]

@@yeahkeen2905 Argubly, being a slave on Lys might be more confortable than a wildling at the north of the wall with ice zombies approaching

[@Dell-ol6hb]

I think a Tunguska-like air burst asteroid makes a lot of sense, more than most of the other theories, though the screaming caves suggest it might have something to do with the Children, since we know they live in underground cave networks.

[@Dorsidwarf]

It would be pretty awful luck for the only recorded meteor strike north of the Wall to just happen to strike the only recorded town north of the wall though/.

[@debater452]

That dosen't make sence. That kind of an event would have made quite a boom and the Night's watch would have definetly recorded it, since Hardhome is so close

[@pietrayday9915]

At least the involvement of the Children seems to make sense, though: there seem to have been many apacalyptic dooms to befall men in Westeros, and the Children seem to have been involved in many of them. I think we might be able to take the TV series' origin story for the Others as a creation of the Children as being something close to how GRRM will handle it in the books, the "Hammer of the Waters" that flooded men at the Neck appears to have been linked to the Children, and so on: the Children apparently have the motive, intent, and means to call up great and terrible dooms to halt the intrusion of men into their world on multiple occasions, and it's certainly reasonable to think that the Children were involved with destroying an intrusion of what threatened to become a great and powerful colony of men north of the Wall. The wildlings seem to have made uneasy peace with the Children north of the wall, but the Children do not seem to have much patience or tolerance for men who will not tread lightly there! The Children aren't the only powrful, ancient race of beings north of the Wall or near the coast that might want to destroy Hardhome, but they certainly seem like they could fit the "modus operandi" as presented in the sketchy details we're given about what happened at Hardhome, and certainly not much I can think of about motive, opportunity, or anything else would seem to discount their involvement. Unless someone can confirm or debunk it with more direct evidence, I think we can call the theory that Hardhome was destroyed through some as yet sketchily-detailed magical, apocalyptic means by the influence of the Children on nature seems perfectly plausible, and probably more plausible than most of the theories presented in this video, given what little evidence we do have. I don't think that destruction at the icy claws of the Others is implausible - they're pretty powerful and they are also in the general area of Hardhome where they might have the opportunity to cause mayhem on this scale. And, the theories about the people being eaten or carried off as slaves don't seem utterly incompatible with the way the Others deal with human victims. But, I don't think there's as much support (so far) to be found to think the Others capable of it: we know the Children have been able to bring apocalyptic doom directly onto men in the past, we don't see so much of the Others doing this beyond doing what they have already been doing to this point, and even the Others seem to be an apocalyptic product of the Children's reaction to men intruding on their domain. And, then there is the theory that there is an aquatic race of fish-men who might have the power to call apocalyptic doom on the coastal town of Hardhome - there seems to be some suggestion that these creatures do exist in the setting, and have been involved in one way or another with apocalyptic events in the past! - but, I think we have even less evidence to go by to reach the conclusion that Deep Ones did in Hardhome. The Children seem like the most likely culprits to me so far! Blaming it on the Children at least FEELS more right to me than rogue dragons, misplaced Valyrian raids, Faceless Men weapons testing, and other epileptic trees.

[@saraa.4295]

I have another theory, based on two theory assumption: Assumption 1: the first defeat of the others, was not so much a military victory, but more a sort of pact, similar to the one of the first men and the children, giving the icelands to the others. 2. Assumption: when the wall was built there were no humans living north of the wall, and the nights watch was set up to ensure that the giants, children of the forest and others kept their end of the deal, and to keep humans south of the wall! But with society becoming more and more "civil" more and more humans fled civilization to the north, and the free folks grew! With those 2 assumptions in mind: hardhome was the first time the free folks reached a threshold that might be dangerous to the pact and the children intervened, with their magic. Now, 600 years later, they really did reach the numbers to awaken the others, but since they are scattered, and the children of the forest are even fewer, there is nothing they can do! Reason for the two assumptions: The pact is mentioned a lot..we are reminded so often, that the biggest peace of the north was not gained by battle, but by negotiation. There are heroes mentioned in the long nights but never battles or victories. Reason for the second assumption: the way the castles are built they have better eyes on the south. The magical barrier seems to stop everything either way. Why should ppl live there 10000 years ago when most of the fertile lands were not inhabited yet? The building of the wall itself must have taken years...even if other humans lived on the northern side, would they not have been invited south?

[@hircenedaelen]

Given the existence of the Thenn, who have feudalism and metallurgy, I doubt the existence of an organised settlement north of the wall would've angered the children that much

[@CMAzeriah]

​@@hircenedaelen Good point. Although you'd think a port that gives you unlimited access to the rest of the world would be more dangerous. The wildlings could get ideas such as ship building, writing, proper military drill, and the economy to support it. Things that allowed humans to organize. It was this that allowed the first men to defeat the children.

[@g_wylde]

I think it's possibly that Arya will be involved in returning the wildlings from Braavos to the North. Her direwolf's name is Nymeria afterall so it'd make sense for her to play a similar role and find herself back in the North. She's in the perfect place for it. Also about Silverwing not crossing the Wall, I think that is literally the magic of the Wall stopping him. However, a dragon flying around the Wall over the sea should be able to get to the lands beyond the wall regardless. That said, I think the most likely scenario for Hardhome is either Children of the Forest or a geological event.

[@D2attemp]

I think the Wildlings are safer in Braavos and will choose to stay

[@PedroLucas-mg5je]

And I believe that Davos and Rickon are going to play a major part on this as well!

[@matthewgaulke8094]

The Last Jedi and the last season of GOT was the end of an Era. I still scratch my head wondering how things fell so hard and so fast. I haven't watched a single movie or show from 2023. From what I gather I didn't miss out on anything. It's actually been interesting to step away from all of this and realize a lot of things about the water the fish swims in...the fish doesn't see it because they've always swimmed in it.

[@rohitsequeira6023]

Probably the biggest cliffhanger in all of novel literature history. As for the dragonlord theory I think that is possible given that Queen Alysane's dragon didn't cross the wall because it was afraid. I think the dragon could sense the presence of the "Great Other" and sensing Queen Alysane's curiosity didn't want to indulge it as it could have been dangeorus for both of them. Remeber the dragon is not a slave and can disobey it's rider. The dragon very clearly tried to communicate a message of fear to her. However the Valyrian Lord's dragon even if it sensed the evil would have also known that his rider just wanted to burn a town on the coast and then leave. Furthermore sensing the Great Other could have caused it to panic and lash out causing a more severe destruction than intended.

[@chrisrubin6445]

Great Other, LMAO.

[@thalmoragent9344]

So the Dragonlord's Dragon basically said "let's destroy this place quickly and powerfully", is what you're trying to say.

[@rohitsequeira6023]

@@thalmoragent9344 Yes.

[@williamhermann6635]

​@@chrisrubin6445 Great Other is a real name used in the books by Melissandre. You have read the books right?

[@chrisrubin6445]

@@williamhermann6635 I'm not laughing at the phrase, I'm laughing at that guy believing that Melissandre's batshit fanatical religion where she kills kids and burns people to death is real. The Great Other is not real, neither is R'hollor, neither are the Old Gods, Neither are the Seven. Anyone who thinks any of those gods are real, should be laughed at.

[@bdc2320]

I believe it was the Children. Hardhome was becoming a town with would lead to a city. North of the Wall is almost all the Children have left. They will tolerate villages but nothing more.

[@domhuckle]

Volcanic caldera is most likely - hardhome grew up as a result of characteristics like deep harbour and shelter from cliffs - if an asteroid hit, it would create these features, but they wouldn't already be there Though, would a volcanic eruption look like the sun rising in the north? Maybe - not many volcanos in westeros, maybe they're not well known?

[@Dell-ol6hb]

Nah a volcanic eruption wouldn’t look like the sun

[@debater452]

That would have made quite the sound the night's watch would have recorded that

[@inevitableAnpu]

​@@Dell-ol6hbdepends on how literal they are or if they even had anything else to reference that would communicate it. also, Being the center of attention sharing eyewitness accounts about the horror of hardhome I can totally imagine some drunk northerner trying to impress by telling the ladies that it was, as they themselves are, as bright as the sun. I'm not saying it was or wasn't what happened, but it certainly could have been spoken of in such a way and thus the legend is born.

[@MrHotSalsa]

A Tormund and Davos meet up would be legendary.

[@bugenjoyer2187]

when i heard the books description of the event, i was immediately reminded of the tunguska impact.

[@user-rs4pk9is5f]

What if the creature that wounded Balerion when he went to Valyria with Aerea Targaryen dwelled at Hardhome in the caves during that time? Or possibly another similar creature that would’ve been capable of that kind of destruction

[@csanadveres7310]

I think the braavos, dragonlord theory can still work. Silverwing was a 22 year old dragon from westeros. The dragon that has attacked hardhome was most likely significantly older, and a valyrian dragon which means that it would have been larger than a westerosi one even if it was the same age. In my opinion a dragon like that could have reacted much differently to the magic of the area compared to silverwing.

[@mesa577]

Dragons don't like crossing the wall alyssane targeryan tried to fly over it but her dragon refused, it could be something like a dragon another Chimera maybe ?

[@csanadveres7310]

@@mesa577 All I'm saying is that a more powerful dragon would have been braver.

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@csanadveres7310 Well, not necessarily A Dragon that lived mostly on Dragonstone would've grown just like the ones of the Freehold, as it's the same environment. And Alysanne did spend some good time in Dragonstone, and even the Dragonpit wasn't finished yet for some time. Still, it could've been a Dragon, or a rogue Fire Wyrm (meh, doubt it), or some other fiery Chimera, like how the other guy mentioned. And regardless of size, perhaps even the likes of Balerion would've cautioned going across the wall, but we may never know. Vhagar has gotten old by the time of HotD and we're told she can be stubborn, and has a "personality", stronger than any of the younger ones, of course.

[@Dorsidwarf]

The only issue is that the distance from Braavos to Hardhome is greater than the distance from Valyria to Braavos, which are already an entire continent apart. How incompetent was the dragonlord that he flew an extra 2 or 3 THOUSAND miles across open ocean when everyone knows that there is no ocean between valyria and braavos.

[@joshuamoore9014]

I'm currently going with the wyrms, I think it is said they were one of the possible culprits and they burrow through the ground and there are several caves and earth ways there.

[@johnpaul9599]

my money is on a meteorite caused the doom of hardhome , it seems that meterorite events in the world of Asoiaf are very common ,that i remember maybe theres more but we have 3 descriptions of events and things made of comets/meteorites through the books 1. Dawn, the ancestral sword of house of dayne was made from a meteor 2. the red comet that was seen during daenerys resurrection of the dragons 3. the old monuments disperse around the world made of that oily black stone are rumored by the maesters to be made from meteorites

[@nathanieljones7981]

I cackled at the crab god clip. Thank you chris

[@SpaceViking2000]

OH MY GOD. I am so happy you did this video. I just finished ADWD and Hardhome has been on my mind ever since the story of it was mentioned. I’ve noticed that GRRM likes to leave hints for the readers and what’s going on in the present loosely echoes what happened in the past. This is my theory. Going to watch the video after to see how close it is to yours, if at all. 1. Valyrian slave traders sacked the town with dragon fire. 2. Melisandre is a wildling called Melanie who was sold to slavery when the dragon lords came. She is “touched by fire.” That would explain why her power is stronger at the wall when you would think it would be weaker because fire and ice. It would also tie in to the show scene of her being stupid old. For what that’s worth. The first one seems very plausible. Second one not as much, since ASOIAF is very subtle with its magic.

[@theprofessionalhater69]

Another banger from crusader chris, now with a fire intro

[@jonathanvelasquez1325]

Excellent video

[@courier420winter]

always love a good asoiaf channel

[@auron509]

awesome new intro!

[@Ciccigreen]

Great video!

[@moed.740]

the rogue dragon lord theory makes sense and that children of the forest one does ring a bell or two, but I wouldn’t surprised if it turns out to be just a natural event. Great video 👍🏻

[@ellaphx]

Fantastic video, man. Really interesting to hear about the possible real-world parallels that Martin may have been drawing inspiration from. Thanks for posting!

[@resolutionsoundwerks]

Very insightful. New sub.

[@Missing-Ace]

Cotter Phyke’s letter to Jon is one of my favourite bits of writing in asoiaf

[@optimusslime6240]

How did you edit the text to appear behind people in those scenes of the intro? It’s so cool

[@laurencote5949]

Oh my God I love your Channel!

[@palemoonlight96]

I love your channel and long videos so much, no background music needed just your voice is great to relax and enjoy the narration 😍 hope to see an in depth video on Melisandre someday, she's so interesting and mysterious

[@domhuckle]

This is a great video

[@corycesare8821]

It was Firewyrms that live in those caves. Idk what set them off, but they went nuts and destroyed the civilization at Hardhome. It explains a lot of what happened.

[@MFenix206]

Fire Wyrms mayhaps?

[@trinstonmichaels7062]

Good video

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

I think I love this channel 😁😁😁

[@Euph0rical]

Loved the video! I’ll happily subscribe to ya 😊👍

[@misskate3815]

I dk what will happen to Hardhome in the future. But I have theory about what doomed it. It was the Watch. I mean, think about it. Two of the major advantages Westeros has over the Wildlings is their lack of centralized government and economic isolation. And we know, based on the descriptions given in the books, that the environment beyond the wall consists of tundra, but also fertile plains and boreal forest. So, a settlement, based in a natural harbour with potential defences in the form of escape to sea AND a natural cave system, could easily become a village, then a city. Combine this with contact with traders, which would allow the wildlings, through Hardhome, to become an economic powerhouse Beyond the Wall, and suddenly it’s much easier for wildlings to become organized, including trading for things from Essos that they couldn’t necessarily get via raids or trade with Westeros. The watch couldn’t have the wildlings developing strength and relationships with ppl outside the wall. It would enable the wildlings to begin to deal with them on equal footing, whether that be through diplomatic means or battle. So, my theory is that some very farsighted and clever and absolutely inhuman monster of a watch commander saw all that and led a “ranging” to Hardhome, murdering every man, woman, and child. Then they put about all the myths about the place so no one would suspect them.

[@beesmitty3435]

So although this theory lacks supporting evidence from the books it's logical enough and to add a tiny bit of written support I'd say the knights watches actions at crasters could be a reflection of what a rogue watch is capable of. The part that always caught me most w hardhome was the screaming from the caves.. Imo best theory is the children used magic to cause 'an event' (asteroid/earthquake/volcano pick your poison) to destroy hardhome for breaking the pack and settling beyond the wall. Maybe the screams from caves weren't victims of hardhome but were the children, the screaming being an effect of the sacrifice they made to bring about said event. Since most magic needs the user to sacrifice something to access it.

[@momo7989]

I really think the burst is the most logical. I kinda thought it could be a volcano or something of the sort when reading due to how I was Reno reminded of Pompeii. Grrm likes using historical events so it's not surprising if he used these things as one of the mysteries of asoiaf. Ppl will think it's something magical but really just nature or science.

[@revotor8142]

I believe the wall interferes with many kinds of magic, including consciousness-blending magics, like how Jon can't warg Ghost through the wall. We see a similar conciousness-disruption when Bran first enters the Weirwood cave with Bloodraven. I believe dragons are a three-way merged conciousness, and thus if a Dragon would cross it over the top, it would be destroyed, and that's why Silverwing refused to cross. The other example of multiple merged conciousnesses crossing the wall was Orell's Eagle with Varamyr Six Skins, who says that as he crossed over the wall, he was burned from the inside out. Basically, my theory is that the wall's conciousness-separating magic would kill Dragons, because "a dragon has three heads", or has three conciousnesses - A rider, a dragon, and a sacrifice

[@williamhermann6635]

I think Hardhome was the test run for the Doom of Valyria. Could've been COTF, could've been Faceless Men, or both in cahoots somehow. FM seem kinda influenced by COTF somehow.

[@user-kq5ci7ol8o]

I think you should also consider what happens in the show for one of the possibilities (Let me explain) while the show clearly diverted from the books (Faegon, Stannis the mannis, Euron Greyjoy, all of Drone, Bloodravens importance, magic in general, and Lady Stone heart being the most clear cut examples), it is pretty clear that SOME things that happen in the show are gonna happen in the books, R + L = J (100% gonna happen), Danny going crazy (Very likely, though not 100%), Shireen burning (George has admitted that she'll be burned, though the context isn't clear), Jon coming back to life (Also 100% gonna happen, however how it affects Jon isn't clear), Valyrian steel being useful against "Others", The Hound still being alive (That one is just practically confirmed in the books so) etc, and seeing as the threat of the others/the white walkers became the most evident during hardhome, I wouldn't put it past the books that maybe, just MAYBE, given that the others are becoming more and more of a threat, and there are more and more clues showing that the others seem to be hidden in more places than one might think (There are theories Patchface saw an army of the other/white walkers hibernating underneath the sea, and maybe the screaming is the Others just speaking their language, or their babies screaming, or them making weapons) that there's gonna be a bunch of others waiting for whoever comes to Hardhome, and that all Davos will see is a bunch of wildlings running for their lives as the others kill them and make them part of their army, hell, we know that SOME people make sacrifices to the others, so maybe the woman guiding them is less stupid and more just either malicious and doing a deal with the "Other" to be left alone, and all that'll be known of what happened in the hardhome was "The war has begun" or "The dead start their march", this could even lead to further turmoil within the watch cause Jon snow kept saying that their real enemy was the others, and that they need as many allies on their side as possible, and Jon Snow was just killed before being proven right, I really think hardhome is gonna go somewhat like in the show, in that it'll be a sign of "Shit just got real"

[@momo7989]

I think ppl are leaning too heavy on Dany going crazy when the show most likely combined things with faegon and Jon Con. He's the only character who's truly traumatized by the sound of bells and has greyscale which drives ppl insane. I think Dany will arrive to a kingdom of ash thro.

[@user-kq5ci7ol8o]

@@momo7989 That's also likely tbh, so I guess the more likely thing would be "Someone going mad and burning kingslanding" which seems to likely be either JonCon, Cersie, or Dany (She's less likely to do it given that the wildfire hidden throughout kingslanding is mentioned over and over to remind us that "Hey, Kinglanding sure has a lot of hidden explosives beneath them", but still, I wouldn't put it past the books for this to be a mistake where Dany attempts to just torch JonCon after they start getting antagonistic and JonCon tricks her into making herself look like the biggest mass murderer in years for the whole world to see) etc, still though, point remains, it's obvious that some things that have happened in the show will happen in the books in some way or another (Like the burning o Shireen or how Kingslanding becomes Kindsashes)

[@williamhermann6635]

N+A=J. Brace yourself cuz Jon aint no incestual creep on a dragon. Hes a Dayne and hes gonna become the new Sword of the Morning with Dawn in his hands.

[@user-kq5ci7ol8o]

@@williamhermann6635 I mean, on top of all the other evidence (Rhaegar himself said that Azor Ahai would be "A song of ice and fire", and Jon, being both Stark and Targaryen would literally be "A song of ice and fire", the interview thing where George ONLY let D&D make the show if they guessed Jons parentage and they both , and George introducing Darkstar and Podrick Dayne meaning there are already two important Dayne characters that could get the sword, Lyanna asking Ned to promise her something etc), Jon has Dayne blood (So does Dany actually), one of Jon ancestors married a Dayne and had a bunch of Targaryen and Dayne children, and THAT is the line from which Jon was born, so if he's revealed as Targaryen, he'll also be revealed as a Dayne, and since the Daynes are from Dorne, they wouldn't care much about him being bastard, just him having any amount of Dayne blood and having the proven skill, HOWEVER, George has not (Most likely intentionally) shown that ANY Targaryen has ever married or had kids with a Stark, making it so if Jon IS Targaryen he'd both be "The song of ice and fire" AND a suitable applicant for "The dawn" so, the only benefit that N+A= J has is already filled in by R+L=J (Again, most likely intentionally), so I really don't see the need for N+A=J, the evidence is way less, it's introduced first so casual watchers and readers think "AHA, I already figured it out", while most people who figured out R+L=J had read between the lines, George keeps adding in lines like "The baby must be a song of ice and fire", and Jon questioning if Ned IS his actual dad, and the books pointing out that Arya looks like Lyanna and that Jon looks looks like Arya and thus by extension like Lyanna, the lore constantly pointing out "Hey, there have been a lot of dark haired Targaryens" etc etc, it just seems more likely for R+L=J to be true

[@masonsmith1536]

The doom of hardhome has four major components the flame, ash, the burned bodies and the shrieking caves. We have in story a creature who burrows in stones leaving cave systems, breathes fire and is specifically said to have left burnt bodies in their wake. the ash simply means that something of serious intensity occurred at hardhome displacing that much ash into the atmosphere. The shrieking also seems to imply that something is living in the caves. I believe the best explanation is that the cave systems were created by a group of fire wyrms long ago, who were dormant when the wildlings started using the area and were awakened by the increased activity above them. They explain the shrieking, the cave systems, the fire, and the necessary intensity. The doom of hardhome was an attack by a group of fully grown fire wyrms….(ps, i think they are still there but i doubt they will factor into the story)

[@ThommyofThenn]

10:10 "constant" or "concurrent?" Of course we are assuming the FM took the mages out in one fell swoop

[@CrowofJudgement461]

I always forget that Wun-Wun was on a rampage when Jon got killed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jon’s assassins immediately got stomped by him

[@pietrayday9915]

I'm a bit skeptical of all those explanations, but it is a bit fun for me to humor both the Tunguska theory and the Dragons theory, in light of something that stuck with me from pretty early on in the stories: the little myth/legend that one of Dany's servants tells her about the moon being an egg, and that there were once two eggs, one which got too close to the sun, and out of it hatched the first dragons, while another servant interrupts the story to complain that she'd heard a version of the same story in which the moon was a goddess.... "It is known!" I think this myth actually uses allegorical language to describe something that probably wasn't an astronomical event, nor a literal origin story for dragons - more like something historical or prophetic with fanciful characters like moon goddesses and space-dragons substituting for kings or queens or whatever. But, what if? What if some sort of meteor struck Hardhome, carrying dragon eggs from the moon, hatching them in volcanic caverns deep under Hardhome, where they emerged to ravage the landscape and destroy the folk of Hardhome? Where are they now, one might wonder, and what other impact might they have had on the North and the Others? It's kinda fun to chase those ideas around a little and see where they might go, but I don't think there's much evidence to support them: one would think that any dragons north of the wall would have left more of a lasting impact than to simply destroy Hardhome and vanish. And, one would really expect that GRRM would have a difficult time resisting including details about the impact before it happens, such as seeing a comet or falling star or something in the sky in the days leading up to the destruction of Hardhome. So, I have to think the Dothraki(?) stories recounted to Dany are allegories referring to something a little closer to "earth", while the Doom that befell Hardhome is something maybe a little different from just a prequel to the Doom of Valyria: these aren't the only dooms to befall GRRM's fictional lands in these stories (the "Hammer of the Waters" that seems to have flooded the Neck is another such Doom, as is the more clearly remembered Doom that befell Harrenhall and the Long Winters of the past and possibly near future - the ruins of ancient apocalyptic dooms of all sort dot the landscapes of Westeros and Essos alone, and prophecies hint at more to come, I think GRRM just really likes this trope and likes to reuse it over and over in different, unrelated ways as foreshadowing and other storytelling techniques, and who can blame him? It's a powerful little theme!)

[@micahmcfadden8082]

Spells are woven into the wall just like winterfell and storms end melisandre explains how they work magic cannot pass the walls but can be carried through then used like the wights that attacked lord mormont or melisandres shadow baby

[@moiz85]

I like the Tunguska idea, but I think Maester Wyllis figured out something was coming.

[@Shelly-mz9yf]

Thank you 4 so much detail of the background. I've not read the books however as I peruse different websites im gaining so much info. I'd like 2 c the Jon Snow product happen :)))

[@hircenedaelen]

All the theories about the children or white walkers destroying it because "it's the first proper town north of the wall" don't make sense because the Thenn exist. They have feudalism, metalworking, and given the climate of their valley- probably towns. Why would they target Hardhome and not the Thenn

[@justinsarvela1102]

Another possibility is the existence of mass amounts of methane gases in the cliffs. Perhaps a small ice burst released access to a natural gas storage and it was ignited and hardhome was roasted from all sides. It could explain the localized destruction and bright light. Residual flames within the tunnels could be continuously melting ice and cracking rock, causing the current screaming sounds from within. There are several known eternal flames in the real world, and that seems like something that R.R. would be interested in. Also in real life, natural gas is sometimes stored within certain types of bedrock by gas companies, so it could have happened naturally in this case.

[@Ilargizuri]

I wonder why everyone says that GRRM hates repetition, he repeated himself in this Instance. Jon takes several stabbing wounds by some Black Brothers like Robb took several Bolts from Cross-Bows. Then he is cut through the Throat like Catelyn, then he gets a final Wound in the Back like Arya who is knocked unconscious by the hound. It all happens during a gathering of many People who are very loud and in a chaotic Situation. So Except for the Wedding Part, this is a nearly complete Repetition of the Red Wedding, even the Groom and the Bride are not where the fight takes Place. Jon is betrayed like Robb was betrayed, ... all that is left is the resurrection of the Dead Body, like Catelyn Stark. It would be interesting if GRRM really goes the Bran Route instead of the Cat Route and lets Jon fall into a Magical Coma, where his Wounds heal and where Melissandre takes care of him and maybe uses the Blood-Magic Ritual that Mirri Maaz Duur tried to use for Drogo before he died when Daenerys killed him, I mean at least there won't be a pregnant wife who goes into the Tent who than loses her Baby as part of that Ritual because the Witch literally told her that nobody should come into the Tent until the following day! Would be interesting to see if someone uses the Ritual properly without interruptions, I mean Melissandre has a Room that can be locked.

[@aidkik580]

Coulda been the site of a battle as well, if a dragon lord had been visiting hard home, sounds like the wall keeps the fire creatures from going north an the ice creatures from going south so without knowing about this dealio he may have been attacked and his dragon or dragons came to his defense n the battle just wrecked everything n caused a Forrest fire, the ash from that could be swept around in the air for quite some time, what silverwing did or didn't do doesn't matter, the wall is on land so going by sea might be diferent

[@theoadamsiv7844]

got my subscription with crab god

[@bundibird3213]

"Jon and Ygritte use the pool and the cave to have a playdate before they climb the wall" LMAOOOOOOOO

[@mrsnulch]

Wow I really like the asteroid impact theory to be honest. It’s not magical but it checks out nonetheless. The harbour could be a crater, and the story could have been exaggerated from there.

[@sgauden02]

Maybe we'll find out in one of Bran's chapters...

[@JCResDoc94]

lovely. _JC

[@NekoRagdoll]

I wonder what if the "mother of dragons" is actually the mother of all Targaryens? That'd be an incredible plot twist...

[@bakthihapuarachchi3447]

Daenerys is the last female Targaryen left, so if she gives birth, she will be the "mother" to all Targaryens from then on 😮

[@kidomniman8635]

If the fire was caused by dragons there would have been melted rock as evidence and people would have resettled there. Dragon fire isn't going to eliminate fish from being plentiful and no other dragon fire event rained ash for 6 months after.

[@mjbset93]

Is it just me or do all these videos make you sad for all the changes to an unfinished story in the TV version. They could redo the whole story more book accurate in using computer motion capture animation for everything and make a killing. Easily 120 hours of content people would be 100% addicted to. Almost the original actors have than enough footage to base their computer animated characters on. Hell you could make a feature computer animated film that looks like live action for the Finale. You would have 7 to 10 years gaining expertise and experience using and updating computer models to the point that AI would be able to touch up scenes with very little work. This version of events at the Wall and beyond are so much better than what we got.

[@ebonymiller3466]

Is the faceless men created the others to get revenge on varyiral

[@johnaverill6308]

When you really open your mind to all possibilities a reasonable explanation could just be some ignorant villager exploring the caves with a torch in hand and causing a geothermal explosion. Also consider the singers who can use fire magic and who live in the caves north of the wall, plus ygritte did say that all the caves are interconnected and even connect to caves south of the wall

[@Dorsidwarf]

Surprised that "It was a magical curse" wasnt one of the options

[@keirangrant1607]

I like your theories man. I think that dragon riders went up there, trying to put an end to the Night's King, and a serious battle went down. The dragon riders might have lost, or even thought they had won, and the information was either never written down or lost in the Doom. Flying over the wall might be an issue for dragons, but coming from across the sea might not have had those issues.

[@CMAzeriah]

What if it was the nights watch? If Hardhome would have been left to grow, it would have become a fortress and economic center from which the wildlings could get advanced weapons, armor, and even build ships. Wildling raids and attacks on the wall would have been more effective. Imagine Mance Raiders armor fully kitted out with real weapons, drilled, and on a fleet of ships. Why would the need to attack the wall. Just go around.

[@GrandMoffOfMars]

the letter from cotter pyke creeps me out every time I read it

[@iSlack01]

Does anyone else find them selves gnawing at the bone?, When it finally comes to the chaos that's about who over take castle Black?!?! When everyone finds out the Lord Commander's dead?

[@GentlemanBystander]

The Yellowstone Caldera going off again is anything but "unlikely", sorry, it's just a question of when, the magma chambers under Yellowstone are still VERY active.

[@CrusaderChris]

It’s very unlikely to happen anytime soon. The magma chambers are estimated to only have 5-15% molten magma. Even if an eruption did happen, its more likely to be hydrothermal rather than volcanic. 👍

[@GentlemanBystander]

@@CrusaderChris That doesn't at all conform to all the data I've seen including the recent ground scans that indicate there is a secondary and possibly tertiary magma chamber under the primary that are even larger.

[@tysonwilson7588]

Anyone ever make a custom character on ck2 agot at hard home but try convert it to a proper northern holding with a fedual castle and city rather than tribal wildling? Oh just me I have no life sorry

[@BenJover]

Good results?

[@tysonwilson7588]

@@BenJover actually role playing as a bravosi merchant developing hardhome. Hardhome and first forest are my only holdings but I still managed to defend myself against an entire united wildling king beyond the wall. So essentially there is a small bravosi duchy North of the wall surrounded by wildlings

[@BasementPepperoni]

Weird how Queen Alysanne's Dragon wouldn't fly past the Wall, considering Daenerys flew pretty dam far past the Wall with 3 of em. Granted we don't know if that's going to be the case in the book and we'll most likely never find out but whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatever.

[@Oman666444555]

D&D never read the source material

[@aaronknautz7364]

Nope. That episode never happened. Don’t know what you’re talking about. I argue it’s the worst episode of the whole show.

[@BasementPepperoni]

@@aaronknautz7364 I'd argue the battle of Winterfell was the worst episode, when you can actually see wtf is going on that is.

[@Oman666444555]

@@BasementPepperoni never saw that one....

[@BasementPepperoni]

@@Oman666444555 I'm sure ya didn't, it was basically just a black screen. Then some Mary Sue killed the Night King...I think, and I immediately went next door and roundhouse kicked my neighbors Grandmother after it was over. Other than the roundhouse kick to the geriatric, it was a waste of time.

[@CrackingCody]

I wonder if we'll actually ever see Hardhome in the books. Jon obviously was going to abandon that trip to go aid Winterfell/Stannis/etc, but is now dead. I feel like it's a book plot point we may just never see end.

[@lilhand47]

The faceless Man reminds me of assassins, Creed type secret organization

[@WillowGardener]

What if the doom of Hardhome was not caused by the Faceless Men, but was their inspiration? It has been theorized that the Faceless Men serve the Great Other, and want to bring death to all mankind. Well, who would have incentive to stop a human settlement North of the wall? The Others. Perhaps the Others caused the destruction of Hardhome, and the Faceless Men, who were aligned with the Others, took the cue and gradually figured out how they might replicate this disaster in Valyria itself.

[@scottnunnemaker5209]

There are lots of things it could have been, my money would be on the Nightswatch destroying Hardhome during a particularly bigoted time period where they went out and slaughtered wildlings. There always seems to be a thing between wildlings and the nightswatch where they both accuse each other of the same butchery. I could see the Nightswatch not wanting to write down something they may have been ashamed of or embarrassed by, so they wrote they watched it from the wall. Just watchers on a wall, nothing more.

[@scubasam4255]

if the winds of winter begin, not when, as if a sure thing

[@taylorjosey1057]

My favorite Tar is John snow

[@nesarjalili8136]

Come on George finish the WOW, soon ive seen every got video on youtube in anticapation

[@exilhannabal]

**me, after 100000 hours of david lightbringer** god ANOTHER FUCKING METEOR

[@exilhannabal]

Jokes aside, my favorite part of ASOIAF is the amazing world building, I absolutely love it the more I learn

[@rschmidt93]

Legends say the crab God is richest merchant in planetos

[@kidomniman8635]

Martin was definitely inspired by a lot of HP lovecraft's work and this type of event definitely fits in with some type of dark evil emerging. If enough ash was put in the sky at once to still be falling 6 months later it wouldn't stay localized to one part of the world. Add that to the fact that the cave system is still haunted enough to keep the wildlings out for generations and scare anyone who goes in them and I think some type of magic had to be used. Perhaps a giant dark magic blood sacrifice from a wildlings sorcerer or some other magic user from somewhere else orchestrated it or perhaps there are just lovecraftian monsters lying dormant in the cave system until the wildlings awakened them. The ash could have been from continued sacrifices which went on for 6 months before the creatures ran out of meat suitable for sacrifice. There are plenty more possibilities than the ones you listed. The ones you listed aren't even the most likely in my opinion.

[@yogadork_namaste]

Moon meteor 🌙 🌚

[@CrowsEye94]

It was the Starks of old, they couldn’t allow the wildlings to have the northernmost port city

[@radiofreeacab]

Silly

[@Swimmaroo]

Nuclear bomb or reactor meltdown imo 😎

[@hibiscus779]

yeah so... who the night king is going to be (transform from) is one of the major plot points of the entire story so introducing the night king in the show as your bland generic villain was a total disaster

[@michasalamon8315]

Still refuse to believe Jon died there. Do we know anything about next book? I wouldn't put it pass Martin to kill Jon in such important moment and have everything fall apart, but I don't want this to happen.

[@Hatchet-Jack]

Yellowstone will definitely erupt again

[@justinrogers1807]

Hey just seen your video and NO where in the show or books did John's neck get cut or slashed he was simply stabbed 4 times .... it kinda matters.. seeing how if the neck was cut he wouldn't have been able to call out snow and I guess transfer to snow

[@CrusaderChris]

Before Jon is stabbed, Wick Wittlestick slashes his throat with a knife, causing Jon to bleed. Here's the passage from ADWD Jon XIII: "When Wick Whittlestick slashed at his throat, the word turned into a grunt. Jon twisted from the knife, just enough so it barely grazed his skin. He cut me. When he put his hand to the side of his neck, blood welled between his fingers." So he was cut on his neck, but not deep enough to damage his vocal chords and ability to whisper/grunt, which he does when he says his final word, "Ghost."

[@sirpepeofhousekek6741]

If there are scresms in the caves, it might be a giant wyrm, same species as one that hurt Balerion.

[@vitrioljones]

Engagement

[@snowstorm1863]

Jon never had his throat slit

[@MFenix206]

that is up to interpretation. he was still able to talk, but he *was* cut on the neck, the first blow he received. immediately after he was unable to properly grasp his sword. it could have been poison, blood loss (could have took out an artery but not the windpipe), or he simply stopped doing his hand exercises and his hand stiffened up.

[@CrusaderChris]

George writes: “When Wick Wittlestick slashed at his throat, the word turned into a grunt. Jon twisted from the knife, just enough so it barely grazed his skin. He cut me. When he put his hand to the side of his neck, blood welled between his fingers.” So.. slit/slashed/grazed/cut. Semantics really. His throat was cut in some way regardless. Not really important.

[@BenJover]

@@CrusaderChris He had his neck cut. Throat cut is what happend to Cat

[@Dell-ol6hb]

@@BenJover you are being very pedantic

[@chrisrubin6445]

Braavos was founded by escaped slaves, not Faceless men. There is no evidence for faceless men causing the doom of Valyria, and it would go against the themes of the story. The Valyrians brought about their own doom, just like everyone else in the story.

[@CrusaderChris]

Correct, but since the faceless men claim to be former slaves of Valyria, and since we know former slaves founded Braavos, and we know the faceless men now reside in Braavos, I just connected the dots. In all likelihood, the faceless men were among those who founded Braavos.

[@tokivikerness8863]

I think it's more accurate to say there is as much evidence the faceless men caused the doom as there is for any other theory. Very little. All that is written is just a few theories but one of those is the faceless doom theory.

[@chrisrubin6445]

@@CrusaderChris maybe they were there, in disguise, but saying that a guild of assassins founded the city is such a stretch, city planning, building giant statues, engineering a city in a lagoon, administration, trade routes, ship building, does any of this sound like the faceless men?

[@CrusaderChris]

I never claimed the faceless men founded and built Braavos. Only that they were likely amongst the escaped slaves who did. All my information is based on the books.

[@domhuckle]

The faceless men were at the doom, and benefited most from it. They were also one of the founding guilds at Bravos - great world building by GRRM

[@AodhanBeag]

19:36 that modesty edit 😂

[@abderrahmanenedjadi7475]

The first 7min is about jon snow

[@Hugo_Tate]

is Rickon as useless as he was in the show, in the books as well so far??

[@joshshortmusic]

Yes but is also given even less focus lol, you kinda just forget he exists

[@kalamataolives]

i mean…he’s barely more than a toddler in the books so no, he’s not really doing much

[@williamhermann6635]

I think Rickon is going to be a much darker and angry version of himself when Davos finds him.

[@aaronknautz7364]

He’s riding cannibalistic unicorns!

[@MrLoekanle]

The descendants of the brothers who where kings beyond wall who got stuck in massive cave systems became trogs or vampires mistakenly by rangers as ghouls explained screams in caves

[@Hatchet-Jack]

Yellowstone will definitely erupt again