Cry Havoc Review with Tom Vasel

[@LordCyler]

Correction - @4:20 Tom mentions that if someone moves into an area with another unit that no one else can move into or out of that area. In the rules I've read it states the following: ""If your Unit enters a Region with an opponent’s Units, a Trog War Party token or a Trog Nest token, the Unit must stop moving and cannot Move again this turn. However, additional Units may be moved into this Region during the current Move Action! The Movement Action ends when all Movement points are expended, or a player chooses to spend no further Movement points." *Edit: I believe what Tom might have meant is that no other factions can enter a zone during their movement phase that already has a battle token.

[@pjbrady6684]

I've noticed some other board game media folk disparaging the standard review trope of showing an overview followed up with final thoughts, but Tom gives a great example of how to do it right. In a brief single take he gives a great overview of almost the entire game without any pausing, or hmming or hawwing, while talking naturally. Game looks awesome.

[@CB-yh3db]

I couldn't tell from the video. Did Tom like this game??

[@philsheep9926]

"I can't find a flaw in this game" - bloody hell, that's a rare thing to hear: very impressed that it made such a positive impressing on you!

[@PMMagro]

It is a nice game but Tom must have skipped the rulebook and written rules plus game balance. Not hard to solve (errata fixed the main glitch/es). I kept it and use minor house rules (it is Nexus Ops 2.0 for me and Nexus Ops was good).

[@2dTones]

Oh Tom. Only 1 minute in and that glimmer in your eye tells me you LOVE this game :D edit after watching the rest: wow, that's one of the most positive reviews I've ever seen from you! I was already interested in this but now I can't wait to give it a shot.

[@caledfwlch45]

The cover totally looks like a shot from Crysis or something

[@justinjacobson7951]

Slight error in the battle explanation: You only capture one prisoner if you have the majority there--not one for each unit you placed there.

[@KissellMissile]

Right. The second section is a majority section, meaning you capture 1 figure if you are the strict majority.

[@HerrohGrant]

Correct.

[@g8kpr3000]

I was wondering that, because it says right on the card "capture one opponent".

[@davidandersson7642]

The moment I saw that battle system I knew I wanted to get this game. It makes sense that you'd allocate your troops to different objectives. It's not just a matter of "winning" or "losing", it's about achieving what's in your best interest at that moment and location.

[@HerrohGrant]

The idea is, if you're a general on a dropship, you're coordinating where your forces are hitting the enemy. You can sum it up in the classic line "concentrate all firepower there!" Glad you liked it.

[@Lyraeone]

@dicetower how does it hold up years later?

[@victorhahs3798]

I’m wondering the same thing

[@garesonc9672]

Wow. I've watched several hundred of your videos....I don't think I've ever seen you so enthusiastic about something. What an endorsement for this game.

[@jeffrainwater4084]

2 years later, how's this holding up? Has it aged well into 2018? Still in your top 10?

[@simba2k8]

Wow, I haven't seen game review intensity from Tom, like that, in quite a while.

[@Subcomandante73]

On the fence there Tom...tell us what you really think :)

[@KnightOwl23]

Yes Kind of drives you mad when a reviewer sits on the fence. :)

[@davedogge2280]

that is a golden fence with neon lights with a sign showing 'buy me'.

[@UltraAar]

I thought he was pretty clear.. it's like his favourite game of the year

[@UltraAar]

+lucduchien ahah when it's typed out on KZbin than not all the time, no

[@BGBarbarian]

All aboard the hype train! I hope it lives up to it.

[@BoardGameSocial]

Well...Scythe has been out for a couple weeks, so time to move on!

[@g8kpr3000]

and Seafall hasn't arrived yet.

[@Glicerol]

unfortunately no :/

[@npane171]

@@g8kpr3000 How'd SeaFall work out?

[@ronrancor]

Looks awesome. Already preordered on coolstuff. One question though -- what's with the board art? It looks like there is terrain until you get to the playing area and then it's just white and blue splotches. I would have thought maybe it was set in a sea, but the cards seem to specifically be for different terrain types.

[@xenothonstelnicki597]

haha Enjoying your passion here, Tom. :-D

[@jonanjello]

0:53 I could see it in your eyes, Tom, just didn't expect you would actually bring the gavel down on the components at the end.

[@Aaackermann]

He was sneaky there. The Gavel didn't hit the components from top, rather from the side!

[@JoeKundlak]

Hmmm, reminds me of Nexus Ops in many ways... I wonder was Nexus Ops one of the inspirations for Cry Havoc? Or perhaps a subliminal one?

[@HerrohGrant]

I hadn't yet played Nexus Ops when I started it 4 years ago... I think it's a case of there being good solutions for similar problems, aka multiplayer war games.

[@scottduncan8775]

Got yo play this at DiceTowerCon with Ignacy Trezewiczek supervising/teaching. True that the board is a bit cartoony and sometimes it is a bit hard to see what the "terrain" is because minis can be covering these symbols. But I really like the Battle Objectives board and interaction with cards during the battling. MSRP seems to be $70, but CoolStuffInc is indicating it'll be ~$45 from them which I think is worth it.

[@Bodyknock]

It's going to be a long wait until September when the game releases.

[@christophergallagher2889]

This is by far my most favourite board game ever.

[@Z-Bow]

actually capturing is a majority objective witch means you can only capture one troops per fight

[@HerrohGrant]

Thanks for the review :)

[@dcnole]

Designer's dream review, I imagine. Congrats!

[@gooberweevil]

That's got to be one of the most glowing reviews i've seen from Tom and I've watched practically all of them. You all should be super proud! :D

[@miguelmanansala9996]

Congrats! And also glad I met you at Kublacon! Best of luck to the game’s success. Definitely gonna preorder it now!

[@jaxommm]

He likes games like this and Kemet though. If you aren't into area control it may not offer much.

[@EyalItsik]

Congrats on the game and the review, Grant :D

[@e.l.2386]

+The Dice Tower do you like this better than Blood Rage? Seems to scratch the same itch.

[@BarendNieuwoudtZA]

is there a playlist on this channel for card games

[@Monkeyb00y]

So the robots are saying, "Kill all humans?" I will name all my bots "Bender Bending Rodriguez"

[@Potatis1337]

I'm starting my own faction with black jack and hookers!

[@way9689]

Tom your enthusiasm is too infectious. Already pre ordered thanks to this review

[@blueberrypie2722]

NEED HELP! First of all. LOVED this game! Thank you for making me understand so much about this game. Okay question, when buildings are activated, how long does it last if unused? For example, the bunker for the Machines faction. I activated it but I didn't get the chance to use it on that particular round, does the building still consider as active during the next round?

[@lugo8824]

4 years later. Once a building is placed... It's permanent. It cannot be destroyed. You can use it once per turn, I believe it is.

[@randym5824]

Seems like this is what Chaos in the Old World would have done for Tom if the theme of that one didn't turn him off so much?

[@ryannethercot376]

tom just to let you know theres some weird rustling noises coming from the mic. not sure what it is.

[@calaban9]

Hah!. With respect... I said you had to go play this game and you almost, but not quite scoffed sir! Best game of Dice Tower Con for me.

[@marcelliebreich5430]

what do you think about the balancing, specially for the human faction? are they so "overpowered" with there skills as it said at boadgamegeek?

[@ramonosuke]

Yes they are over-powered. People have given "first-timers" the human faction when playing against "veterans" and have still won, by landslides. My biggest gripes is the imbalance between all the factions.

[@ArkadeRevolution]

Anyone with even remote interest for board games. Sub here. This dude can solve all your anxieties around buying a board game. I am definitely buying this game because of this amazing review.

[@johnr8095]

I initially thought this was the card game cry havoc that came out a few years ago. Good trick taking game.

[@elgranchuy]

so what happened in 4 years? Tom went from loving this game to not even make it to the top 100 in this year's list

[@middleclassboardgamer]

I think that the thing he liked most about it (the combat resolution) is close to (from what I hear) Rising Sun, and that one is a crossover with a few more of the guys, so it just gets played more. His top 100 just doesn’t have room for 2 games that have extremely similar mechanisms I suppose.

[@lastburning]

Yeah. Tom is fickle.

[@georgioskyritsis9884]

Good point. I was wondering too... Same kind of thing happened with blood rage as well in my opinion.

[@Rob749s]

The battle minigame looks really innovative

[@Valcurdra]

Where is the review for the expansion? It's been out for ages and nobody has reviewed it yet. I thought dice Tower would be all over it as you seem to be big fans of the base game.

[@toytonia9293]

What about AP in this game? Sounds like players will think endlessly about which cards to play.... How long were your first plays?

[@villardileonardo2411]

wow...havent seen u that excited about a game since... vasco da gama

[@joshc.2707]

I made something around the lines of the theme of this game only it was a card game. Didn't go so well still in Alpha stage :P

[@Templarkun]

Where is Sam?

[@Syncopator]

This one needs a full playthrough!

[@Carlordau]

Head over to Watch it Played for a full playthrough.

[@tllk4587]

I wish a store had this game..

[@kristiantornkvist2084]

"Let's talk about how the game works and I telll you my thoughts " and then que the boyish smile. Then you know it's good stuff.

[@Falcon-ev6ct]

love your passion in this review Tom. game looks great and is now on my radar!

[@DennisCeteris]

Is this game good with all the player counts? :)

[@dreadknot69]

Giving the glowing review of this compared to Scythe....I may pick this up instead. This does sound like it's more up my alley. Blood Rage is my favourite game so I suspect i would like this as well.

[@khyronkravshera7774]

Just picked up a used copy for $22. Great game.

[@shlomaster1]

what is the complexity level of the game?

[@justinjacobson7951]

It's strategically deep, but not all that complex. It really has a similar feel to Blood Rage if you played that. It's slightly more complex only in trying to get a handle on how the different factions play.

[@stephanmobius1380]

This was 2016... what game has superceeded Cry Havoc since then, or is very nearto take into consideration? Suggestions anyone? (Feb2019)

[@fernandobao7930]

Very late to the party, but for future reference: Not 100% the same, but a few games that are usually commented or compared are Kemet (Very aggressive, combat-centered, less euro) which has a new version coming soon, Root (Very asymmetrical, light wargame), Chaos in the Old World (very... thematic for warhammer fantasy, less war-gamy, VERY asymmetrical).

[@davidmaynor2855]

Here we are... Feb 2018.... I LOVE this game. And yet, I see it almost never. No stores. No online love. I got lucky and snagged a copy at a convention used. Even with the expansion out now, why is this game not getting the attention it so richly deserves?

[@chuckm1961]

because other people don't like it as much as you?

[@Oncus2]

After watching the whole review, I was honestly surprised about the hype about this game at the end. My impression was that it was kinda dull.

[@ansonvergens2896]

It seems Cry Havoc and Project Elite is the perfect sci-fi combination.

[@justinbolles9645]

WOW! Must buy!

[@b89oj]

Frankly I haven't been really impressed by what I saw in this video about the game. Tom's enthusiasm is tangible but I haven't seen anything in the video that justifies that super hype. It looks like and feels like a pretty standard game to me.

[@Phil_K3n_Sebben]

But did he like it?

[@teeeeeveeeee314]

You're not Frank, you're Tom!!!

[@ramonosuke]

After buying and playing this, from this recommendation, It just fell flat for me. The game is wildly imbalanced amongst factions. Humans are clearly the best faction, followed by Troggs due to their ease of moving troops on the map. Not enough variety(or just more cards) in the cards, poor scale-ability - the game is meant for 4 players. Plus the fact you will only get 15 max actions per game, tend to leave each game ending before you even get your engines rolling. I would much rather play Kemet, Blood Rage, Cyclades or Nexus Ops honestly. Yes they are different, but they all have a form of "area-control" mechanics that I much prefer over this game. I'm not berating Tom here, this was a well done review, and he clearly liked the game way more than I did. Not every game is for everyone, but I wound up selling this off in the long run. The battle system is quite innovative and interesting, and would be more so with more cards and variety in cards

[@henryangeles2413]

Ramonosuke i just bought this game on sale based on memories of this glowing review. Then i started reading the comments about the balance issues...regret is starting to creep in

[@KabukiKid]

I played this one and loved it. I will surely have to get my own copy. Is it better than Rebellion for me in 2016? Nay, but it is probably the second best game of 2016 for me. :-) I prefer Cry Havoc to Scythe or Blood Rage (yeah, I know Blood Rage is from 2015, but I only played it in 2016. heh)..

[@g8kpr3000]

Tom - "Will replace any game in my collection" So... I guess that means Cosmic Encounter is being replaced ;)

[@cthulwho8197]

He said "Almost any game" 😀

[@cthulwho8197]

+Cthulwho? Ah, he repeated it later without the "almost" 😄

[@BuckishDweeb]

Into your collection... with a bunch of broken miniatures. That's if you can even find them after they went flying off the table.

[@mr.tajtas4259]

I agree. The battle system is awesome.

[@saiksaikatai594]

i love tom vassel and hate his apple watch :(

[@thedicetower]

Well, that's better than the reverse, I suppose.

[@saiksaikatai594]

:D

[@dreadknot69]

It's funny, Tom Vasel has an Apple Watch as well...

[@saiksaikatai594]

dreadknot69 you syaing that because of apples to apples? lol!

[@saiksaikatai594]

***** so you are running for a comic price...

[@gurtana]

Your final thoughts on this were quite a shock! I wasn't excepting you to like this much. I was looking at picking this up or Scythe and tbh, the look and feel of Scythe greatly appeals (in contrast, the graphic design of Cry Havoc is very off-putting to me. I can't help feel that this looks too generic and would have been better suited to re-themed as "Avatar: The Boardgame"). Same category as Kemet is very high praise indeed, but again, the theme and artwork of Kemet is one that appeals to me far more than Cry Havoc. Scythe got a good review and you were umming and ahhing about whether it would make top 100, but this easily breaking top 50 of all time and best game of the year? Ouch. The graphic design of this project leaves me very underwhelmed, the rules explanations seemed convoluted - but I usually love the kind of thematic/sci-fi/alternate modes of play type of games you do.. so now not sure what to think or do! :/

[@ABRAELDENO1]

The boy who cried havoc

[@jamesbehan7727]

So I don't understand? Did he like the game?

[@jonazo7188]

Sooo.. Did you like it?

[@ashleepradella4912]

WOW after that review I can't not get it haha! Thanks Tom :D

[@Webchain]

I have heard the rulebook for this game is awful. Can you comment on this Tom? Thanks.

[@FranzBinder20]

Too bad you broke your miniatures with the last shot :-D

[@stormy7722]

I sense a play through, either recorded or live...lol

[@alexfernandez9290]

HYPE!!!!!! Its happening!!!

[@LazyNeutrino]

Ba-ttling Brusheeeeees! And bring everyone for the live play. Ev-er-y-one!

[@simba2k8]

Max 4 players; who do you want playing? I say Tom, Sam, Rob & Jason. I don't know if it's Zee's kind of game.

[@LeeroyPorkins]

This game or Wildlands?

[@TheGilzam]

Its so odd that this game just kinda disappeared off peoples radar. Everyone talks about Root, but Cry Havoc got left behind

[@Lugo428]

You only take 1 hostage per battle.

[@LMKlees]

sounds like his city of reminents review

[@middleclassboardgamer]

The difference (4 years later) is that Cry Havoc is still in his top 100 while CoR never even made it on the list.

[@rekasil]

This game is really amazing! Sure, it's not perfect, there are flaws and it's not for everyone. They say it's unbalanced. And maybe they are right in a sense. The factions are asymmetrical but you can win by playing any side. But winning can be easier for one with human and maybe the hardest with the mechs. It is really up to the player's style. I love the combat system which is very tactical. To be honest I don't like games where the battle is resolved by dice. In this game ... it's a mind game in the game. This is sooo good! 🤩

[@Demovamon]

Woah Tom calm down! Here, have a cookie! :)

[@Haveuseensean]

yesssssssss

[@Tennethums1]

I see the Nexus Ops comparison. Seems like a heavier version of that. Not a bad thing for sure; Nexus Ops is one of my all time favorites (and So is Kemet). Just pre ordered this. Only problem is the GF seems to be uncannily good at area control games.... I just bought another game she's gonna whip me in??

[@Tennethums1]

So, finally got it and have played a couple of games. I say, good call sir! We LOVE it! We had some hiccups with the tokens (the directions don't go into great detail about some key mechanics - get rid of tokens after use, move tokens using activate action, etc). But it is simple enough that these pauses weren't long.

[@NoeAnton]

Want. Now.

[@Andromedax01]

The battle system makes absolutely no thematic sense to me though. I guess it's not a big deal but... Kind of bothers me.

[@HerrohGrant]

Hi! We made a video discussing the thematic and mechanical origins behind the feature. It's on BGG if you want to see: boardgamegeek.com/video/103891/cry-havoc/cry-havoc-about-battle-objectives

[@justinjacobson7951]

On the contrary, I think it captures a lot of the complexity of a battle without bogging the system down in minutiae. In many games, combat is all or nothing. Here, you might have different objectives you can try to achieve even if you don't have a significant force. Compare: We must take and hold this hill -vs.- Retreat but let's get a prisoner we can interrogate -vs.- Just mow down as many as you can and die with glory.

[@Andromedax01]

Watched the vid Grant, very interesting stuff. But still, I still feel an unit that has been killed(or captured) would be slightly too dead(or rendered harmless) to keep control of a Region. I see what you were trying to achive though. Very abstracted. Too abstracted for me. Still, very cool. Congrats.

[@HerrohGrant]

+Andromedax01 No worries. Just wanted to provide more notes! I can talk all day about the intent, but I also want to spare you the boredom of designer ideas 😊. Have a good one!

[@Andromedax01]

And it's a great mechanic to be honest... I'm just specific about some things :p Player quirks !

[@panwall1327]

If you're excited for this, then I'm excited for your review of Scythe.

[@cadenlaptad3247]

He said in BGB that he liked Scythe, but this beats it out by far (well, he said he played a game that was easily his game of the year and it beat everything else out, including Scythe, which I'm fairly certain is this one). :)

[@smackroscoe]

Easy, quick, combat often? Why yes please!

[@RhinoBarbarian]

Cry havoc and let slip the trogs of war!

[@HerrohGrant]

Hogs of War

[@RhinoBarbarian]

Whatever farm animal of war, Grant! Shut up!

[@HerrohGrant]

+RhinoBarbarian ❤️

[@themaster408]

Annnnnd, it's gone (from CSI)

[@thetiger51]

I saw this at #DTC2016 and decided not to play...guess thats what I get for just looking at the cover!

[@TheMacius99]

How about a live play? You made one for SW: Rebellion, and you're saying this game is better, so... ;-)

[@George-qu1tz]

u have allot of board games cool

[@Megaloof22]

I get so much anxiety having to watch him up-end every box onto the floor

[@michaelwalker8952]

Tell us how you really feel... lol

[@JaKamps]

Work on your poker face Tom. Drive Thru Review beat ya to it one this time; said it replaces Nexus Ops for him.

[@achammer]

game miniatures look really good but the board looks horrible so boring looking

[@screechingtoad2683]

Damnit! You made me yawn Tom

[@Glicerol]

Too much hype :) For me most overrated game of this year.

[@SariasLullaby]

Why are you people getting rid of board games to buy new ones? Just keep them all. I mean Tom has a wall of like 200 board games, I'm not sure why I'd get rid of any

[@logicguy37]

Huge pass for me, that "battle" part of the game looks lame as all get out. No dice rolling or even mandatory cardplay? Doesn't look like a battle to me. Almost looks like it would feel more like an auction than a battle, because it looks like you're bidding with your units instead of battling and looks VERY anti-thematic Huge pass for me, disappointing

[@omni-the-grumpy]

And how throwing dice or "you must put the card whether you like it or not" makes games more thematic? For me CHs combat suits game very well, and it's innovative&interesing. With dices that game would be Nexus Ops 2.0.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

Um, in what possible context is rolling dice for combat "thematic"? Or playing cards?

[@logicguy37]

+Sean Thompson Thank you, you articulated my thoughts better than I did

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

The problem with complex combat systems in multiplayer games like this is that you squeeze two games together: the 2-4 player area control game that involves everyone, and the strictly two-player dueling game used for combat. The end result is longer playing time for the whole game and "plays best with two" reviews. See Forbidden Stars or Titan for examples of games where the other players might as well play another game while a battle resolves.

[@gamera2351]

This game looks great! What the heck were the thinking with that terrible box art? Is that guy even in the game? It looks like one if those generic XBox video games. I had zero interest in this game just because the box art was so bad so I just formed an incorrect opinion and moved on. Tom if you ever to a top 10 bad box art again this game really needs to be on that list. So glad I saw review. Now I want it. :)

[@igorpersin7484]

On other hand I found box art appealing, then I saw components, and said, pass. They are bad. Minis are uninteresting, board look lame, components look bad. I would play it, but have zero interest to spend $ on this. Sadly, game might be good, but I simply don't like components at all.

[@bozinho20]

Apple Watch :////