CT70 clones - first ride for the Icebear and Amigo

In a previous video, we uncrated and started both the IceBear Champion and the Amigo Rocky, but did not ride them. In todays video, we fix fuel delivery issues on both bikes and dig deeper into the Amigo on its “choke only” run issue. I was surprised by what I found. #HondaCT70 #HondaClones #IceBear #Amigo

[@ReddingCT70]

Great Video Mike. When Jencheng came out with the first CT70 Clone. I bought a couple then over the years purchased at least one of every other clones and kept in storage for over 20 years Then started selling them still in there ship krates. Being a purist to the Honda Mini Trails. I only kept one a 2009 American Lifan, and a 2009 Jincheng Panda Z50. for my starting line up of bikes I own. But the truth said all almost are replicas of each others, except for engine configurations. Everyone I assembled before selling them, Some new had cracked plastics and rubber issues, carb issues and jetting, speedo issues as you described very disappointing and theres more. I am going to do a video on KZbin showing the Panda 50 & an American Lifan CT70 Clone. Thanks for the video

[@MiniBikeMike]

@@ReddingCT70 Thanks for watching!

[@pathagedorn2526]

Thanks for time spent on the videos Mike. I have an Amigo and had to do a lot of tweaking and the standard upgrades that everyone has mentioned. After all that it is one of the most enjoyable bikes in my stable. After removing the Cali emissions garbage and tuning the stock carb it runs perfectly. Also if you live in Cali and want a plated bike the Amigo is your only choice as the Icebear is not CARB approved to be street registered in Cali.

[@billwiley7216]

I just received my Ice Bear out of the same order you did. I had decided to go through mine pretty thoroughly and check everything and locktite all the bolts before even a first ride. My fuel tank looked pretty rough as far as having rust in it so I have removed it to clean it using Evapo-rust. Keep considering just buying a plastic tank to eliminate future issues concerning the tank rusting but have not pulled that trigger at this point. I also do not like the high petcock for a gravity feed system. I ordered one of the ATC110 Carburetors that has the built in dual inlet fuel petcock and will give that a try. It was cheap enough and many have reported on the owners boards they work well. I also ordered one of the Aluminum external fuel tanks to use as a reserve tank and actually the outlet on that tank should be even a bit higher than the stock tank. The one thing I have found is there is absolutely no lubrication on anything, the swing arm pivot bolt, rear axle, rear brake pivot in other words everything I have disassembled so far and checked all is dry as bone. Even if the lube is used just to coat the parts to prevent rust in my opinion it is needed. So my opinion if a person is looking for longevity out of one of these clone bikes they need to put forth the effort to take them apart and lubricate all the needed areas. I did decide to just replace the rear swingarm with an aftermarket stock length boxed aluminum unit. I really did not care for the chincy rear chain adjusters that came stock on the bike and I will say that the aluminum unit fits much nicer and weighs about 1/3 what the stock swingarm weighs and has a much better more modern style chain adjuster system. Definitely worth the price of admission on this part in my opinion. Also the stock drive chain is pretty well known to "stretch" a lot and need frequent adjustment on these clone bikes, I am going to put a much higher quality chain on from the get go so that the sprockets will wear in from new with the chain I am planning on running. Also out of curosity I pulled the left stator cover and same with the starter drive chain it was bone dry as well. Might not be a big deal but since the starter chain has plastic or teflon (not sure of the material actually used) chain guides and /or tensioners the chain rides on in my way of thinking a very light coat of a high quality synthetic grease should greatly help with wear and longevity on those tensioners and the sprockets that starter chain rides on as well. I considered the Amigo for a short minute because of it coming with the fully manual transmission but could not see it being worth the difference in what they were charging as compared to the Ice Bear. For the difference they are charging for the Amigo I can pretty much buy a complete 140-150cc manual transmission engine to swap into the Champion and have a complete 125cc engine as a spare or to sell. I still may try to convert my Champion semi auto to full manual as I understand it can be done for less than $200 in parts. I really think that for a person that does not mind piddling to get things squared away and has the mechanical ability to perform the work themselves the Chinese CT70 clones are basically a very good buy and platform to start with for the dollars spent if they have reasonable expectations as to these bikes build quality and capabilities and they also come complete with street legal status as well to boot. But if a person is looking for "Honda" quality and reliability out of the crate, just pour in gas and get on and go generally there is a good chance that person is going to be very disappointed. Looking forward to what you do to your new rides in upcoming videos.

[@MiniBikeMike]

Good stuff!! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@82em1]

Wow quite the troubleshooting for peeps that are low on mechanical knowledge!! The amigos are always advertised here in LA on offer up but looks like they have them ready to ride home from the pics Great video like always👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@irishadventurer9759]

Much respect for your mechanical expertise and informed opinions. Very valuable video for those of us who used to enjoy the old CT70s in our youth. I was lucky enough to afford a new CT125 Trail last year and it has been pure joy. Imitations can be great if you enjoy tinkering, but a lot of times the highest quality is the best long term value.

[@melodymakermark]

I was 11 years old when the Hondas came out in ‘71….i think it was ‘71. Anyway, I wanted one big time, but had to improve my report card first, so a deal was struck. That school year, I hit a growth spurt and by spring of ‘72, I was a little big for the CT, but my report card earned me a new red SL-70. My dad was the best. Gotta stop before I tear up.

[@dustinruth]

I think the tube on the bottom of the head might be some sort of EGR system? Exhaust gas recirculation. Takes a little exhaust and pumps back into the cylinder to prevent pinging etc. emissions related. It was how they took lead out of fuel back in the day. The lead was to absorb combustion heat. So by pumping a little exhaust through while running it would work similar to lead in keeping combustion cooler. Not sure though. I’m not a motorcycle guy

[@MiniBikeMike]

@@dustinruth I threw it all in the trash, two years ago. Whatever it all was, the engine didn’t really need it. Over 2000 miles since removal and it still runs great.

[@gckshea]

El Amigo "Rocky" no es mi amigo! Meaning, too shoddy and ill-conceived to be an alternative to a Honda CT. The design of emissions hack add-ons, the poor QC for intake gaskets design and installation, Yada Yada Yada. Great job finding all these things - a lesser mechanically inclined person who just wants a cheap campground rider, or a quick ranch commuter, without a legit dealer to go-to, is just SOL with these knock offs. Takes a special, patient, knowkedgable owner to make these a consideration. Especially given the significant chunk of Dinero for the Amigo. I vote Icebear! Thanks for this video!!

[@purofuegodigital6102]

Sir what state are you located? Great stuff!!!

[@bbaaspencer1]

Looks good! Problem buying a clone is finding parts when they need repair.

[@MiniBikeMike]

Most chassis parts can be replaced with Honda parts. Top end engine parts are readily available. If there is an issue with the bottom end of the engine, throw it in the trash and install a new one. Complete engines are less than $300.

[@rizckiirawan1329]

this was my bike from home to school years ago...love it

[@donlowe9125]

Great show Mike …. Really enjoyed watching

[@Maxumized]

That pipe on the head is smog/emission pump same on my Honda XR650L. Recirculates gasses to air box for crank case recovery of gasses to be burned out through intake cycle.

[@masondawson4061]

It looks like their marketing team actually did their homework for what we complained about with the Champion. In particular the stiff rear shocks, and semi-automatic transmission. Implementation seems to have not quite hit the mark though. It's pretty ironic that the new price point knocks a lot of the folks who asked for it out of the running. At least everything I'm seeing superficial, and an easy fix. It's just a little sad to see the days of the $1K Champion's are well over. That being said I still think even with the higher price you aren't going to find a better bang for your buck.

[@GratefulEd907]

I’m tempted to sell my bike and get my wife and I both a champion

[@masondawson4061]

@@GratefulEd907 I bought two for my wife, and me. It was probably the only way I could get mine without permanent relegation to the doghouse. Turns out she's too scared to ride. More of a self conscious thing than fear. Oh well. The good thing about having two is hers get's the hand me down upgrades so they don't entirely go to waste... I guess.

[@GratefulEd907]

@@masondawson4061 out of nowhere my wife asked about getting scooters today but I’ve been looking at these for a few years now.

[@masondawson4061]

@@GratefulEd907 That's awesome, and congratulation's! I don't think you can go wrong with a couple of Champions in that case. They really are a lot of fun just like everyone says. Having a riding buddy would only make it better. When I bought them I also had in mind teaching my boys how to ride. My oldest rode around the block with me a couple of days ago so that seems to be panning out. BTW if you ever want to know their valve clearance don't even try to make .005" on the exhaust work. I couldn't find a spec sheet anywhere on the motors. Some say they are Loncin, some say Lifan, and others Zongshen. Anyway through trial, and error I'm finally at .003" on the intake, and .004" for the exhaust. If I were to change anything just to see at this point I would try .003" on the exhaust. Also a 24mm carb seems to be the perfect size. I had 26's on them. They were more punchy, but wanted to bog in slow acceleration unless you gave it the beans. Just a couple of things I had to painfully learn by myself that may help.

[@eyeperture]

Great vid covering on both models. It’s a shame the Amigo’s assemble line failed at arrive.

[@MiniBikeMike]

Yes, unfortunate, but…..since fixing all the small issues, this bike is a blast to ride. One of my favorites.

[@wvcruffler123]

Ive had a few Chinese made drop ship bikes and one dealership bought one (CF MOTO) all of them need to have about every fastener checked out. Love the mods to the emission crap on the Amigo. I may have to order one so my wife and I can bomb around the farm (I have a Honda ADV 150 now)

[@Smallbore2wheels]

Talk about an intake leak....man that would have definitely pissed off someone without the troubleshooting experience needed to see thst

[@afaapod]

The petcock on the champion threw me for a loop also 🤣

[@mmaaddict78]

That whole setup on the Champion is maddening. I bought a carb for a Honda ATC 110 with the petcock built into the carb and it works much better.

[@davecummings3335]

Is it important to drill the exhaust? I installed a 26mm carburetor from Amazon and the Icebear was running richer than Bill Gates on it. I bought a Molkt carburetor like you use but haven't installed it yet. The stock carb is back on it for now. I have to ride up a fairly steep hill from work and can't go faster than 2nd gear. If I can get a little more oomph out of the engine, it might make it up in 3rd. So far, everything on my Icebear is stock.

[@MiniBikeMike]

I feel drilling out the exhaust does help a tad and allows things to flow a little easier.

[@bbaaspencer1]

They have people selling upgraded swing arm bushings on the Internet, specifically for those!

[@MiniBikeMike]

The bushing isn’t the issue.

[@monkeyroo8740]

Great video as always mike. I prefer the amigo even though the build quality was poop. Over here in the U.K. we have a few clones of the st70. Im hoping to get one of them soon called sky team.

[@thelonerizla1]

I've got a skyteam st110 I'm considering selling but it's heavily modified including a 160 "OO racing" engine.

[@carnivorecave]

You have a nice collection of bikes...

[@MiniBikeMike]

Thanks! At one time, I had well over 200 horizontal Hondas / clones. I’m down around 100 now.

[@nakoawarrior3186]

WOW GHETO CRUISERS,...I was in and out I seen some problems and fix's/ up grades. But with any bike up to 550cc I want to see the top speed,....a comfortable speed.

[@MiniBikeMike]

For the large majority of buyers, of these small bikes, their concern isn’t with speed. They’re looking for a cheaper alternative than spending $5k for an original Honda CT70.

[@repsol6198]

After watching this video I think I will just stick to buying a Honda, some of these problems are ridiculous.

[@MiniBikeMike]

Yep, if you’re not into turning wrenches, any bike will be frustrating.

[@GratefulEd907]

I wish Honda would bring the new Dax to the states. I’d go order one right now

[@GratefulEd907]

Until then I’m tempted to get 2 of these for the wife and I

[@jupitercyclops6521]

$2,200 seems like a lot for Chinese crap. For another 50% or so person can get a new Japanese bike. Maybe 2x the amount, but you're getting 10x the quality. Now it is cool that these have the trail look.

[@MiniBikeMike]

@jupitercyclops6521 You do realize that the new Hondas are built in China. Probably the same factory that builds the clones.

[@ronwest7930]

It seems like the bike needs to be disassembled and everything checked and lubed and loctited. I'm leery of Chinese bikes but Honda doesn't sell the Dax here and the prices are kind of crazy. and I would take the gas tank out and look it over, rinse it out. I bet grease is needed in many places like the swing arm pivot point.

[@MiniBikeMike]

Small bore Hondas aren’t built in Japan anymore, they’re also built in China, so I wouldn’t treat a Honda any different from these bikes. I’m extremely happy with both my Icebear and the Amigo. I just got back from an RV trip and hauled the Amigo with me. Went on multiple rides with subscribers and it performed flawlessly. For the price of these bikes, they’re hard to beat. The swingarm doesn’t have bearings, it doesn’t require grease.

[@NANA-ji1gt]

I'm a mechanical engineering PhD candidate and I'm trying to modify mine to take an old Honda 500cc engine I picked up.

[@MiniBikeMike]

There are a few big engine swaps out there. It’ll be a fun little ride when you’re done.

[@backthebadge4009]

Did the icebear come with a battery? Did you have add fork oil? We’re than any assembly instructions?

[@MiniBikeMike]

Yes, battery included. I had to install it. No, I have not touched the fork oil and it seems fine. The was an owners manual that may have included assembly instructions, but I’ve never opened the manual.

[@tedvegas5586]

I think it's a vacuum assisted fuel pump on the amigo Mike .

[@MiniBikeMike]

Could be, I really have no clue. I can tell you this…….it’s all in the trash now. 🤣🤣

[@tedvegas5586]

@@MiniBikeMike I run one on my honda chaly with a 125 engine . Basically when the fuel level gets low gravity won't feed the high mounted carburetor. The vacuum pump draws the fuel when gravity stops . Kinda like a pulsing system

[@sgtshultz13]

Hated the trail 70 as a kid. Burnt my leg on the exhaust pipe all the time. Funny how they slap those bikes together no attention to detail.

[@bbaaspencer1]

Honda is coming out with the Dax ST125. Pretty similar to the Champion

[@MiniBikeMike]

Except for the price. You can buy 3 Champions for the price of a new Dax.

[@ronwest7930]

They don't sell them in the U.S. yet. I'm not sure why not.

[@bbaaspencer1]

I heard for 3 years Honda is bringing the Dax125 to the US, so 😮

[@rollietuttle495]

Had the same problem drove me nuts fuel will not go up hill. Your other bike has the proper carb with petcock on float bowl got new carb for $20.00 elemanated

[@rollietuttle495]

16 inches of fuel lines. Runs great

[@rogerwright9783]

You had the Icebear moving. Did you at some point change the front sprocket?

[@MiniBikeMike]

Yes, I think I put a 16t on it.

[@rogerwright9783]

I got a 17 for mine. Not sure when I will put it on. Cold here in WV. Have not added insurance or registered it yet. Want to get it off my rock road to more of a county high to see how it goes stock first. I am in no need of speed right off.

[@rogerwright9783]

Meant to say county highway.

[@dbc1dc]

My petcock sits high too. No complaints though.:)

[@davebenson6795]

Love your informative videos Mike. Is the ice bear able to be plated in Indiana?

[@MiniBikeMike]

I hope so. I received my paperwork yesterday. I’ll be videoing my attempt to get title and plates.

[@dougdavault4256]

Buddy Mike the amigo is a piece I will stay with the honda they put the bike together wrong all the Calif crap off good I live in Calif I knew what you were up against

[@iancameron198]

I believe the champion is the better bike.were do you go to buy one

[@MiniBikeMike]

I picked mine up at Cajun Maddogs.

[@mmaaddict78]

I’ve heard great things about Cajun Maddogs. They didn’t have any in stock when I was looking so I ordered from Birdy’s Scooters. No complaints.

[@MSD617]

I think the Amigo Rocky also has a plastic headlight/speedo bucket whereas the Ice Bear Champion is all metal.

[@MiniBikeMike]

The headlight buckets on both my Amigo and Icebear were plastic. I had an older Icebear with a metal bucket.

[@cainbeeping8480]

I still like the champion better.

[@repsol6198]

There must be hardly no quality control on these.

[@MiniBikeMike]

I think whoever assembled my Amigo was on their first day of the job. I’ll have a video in a week or so of all the crappy assembly that was done. I’ve seen others that didn’t look too bad, I really think it depends on the person you get who is putting it together.

[@blakecable7088]

Champion seems so much better

[@lowtoy83]

Is the Rocky still 4down 4 up

[@MiniBikeMike]

1d3up

[@Hodenkat]

Boy, that "Rocky" is some hot piece of garbage. Scraping chain, squishy rear end. Be careful riding that thing!

[@MiniBikeMike]

It actually turned out to be a fantastic bike. I’ve put a few thousand miles on it and it’s performed flawlessly. It did have some assembly issues, but once lined out, what a great bike.

[@ryanb6658]

All the emissions crap

[@MiniBikeMike]

@@ryanb6658 Not needed in my state. Took it all off, two years ago.

[@stevenscoggins170]

Dang, you got China-ed!

[@bbaaspencer1]

They have 10 year olds building them in China, what do you expect? 😮

[@briantouchette8073]

Icebear is Chinese junk! Amazing to see just how cheaply made something can be. I bought one a few years ago, and couldn't sell it fast enough. Not pleasurable to ride the way a nice CT70 is. Stay far away from this brand.

[@MiniBikeMike]

It’s funny how things change. I remember the same comments being made about Japanese bikes in the early 70’s. For some reason, now Honda’s are revered as quality. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@roygumpel8415]

what about Comparison between the icebear leo and HONDA monkey 125? I'm simply trying to decide if I should spend more than 2x the money on the honda, which seems to be a great bike. Any words of wisdom? I have no interest in buying junk.

[@MiniBikeMike]

No clue here. They are both way too small and I have no interest in either. With that said, based on my experience with the IceBear Champion, I’d most likely purchased two or three Leo’s before I bought the Honda bike.

[@roygumpel8415]

so you don't feel that the Honda quality is worth it? It sure looks like the honda monkey is way more substantial. thanks@@MiniBikeMike

[@MiniBikeMike]

Honda quality? When did Honda all of sudden become the gold standard of quality. Their bikes are built in China, just like the clones. I don’t see myself paying 2 or 3 times the cost, just to have the Honda name on the side. I’ll buy the clones all day.

[@MOUSEBOWEN]

Awesome looking bikes . Are those Chinese bikes? Decent quality for being Chinese horrible reputation?

[@MiniBikeMike]

Yes, both are Chinese built. Personally, I feel they are very well built. Each had its own little things that needed tweaked, but I’ve had new Hondas that needed work also. Great buys for the money.

[@MSD617]

Wow that Amigo Rocky - what a piece of Cheap Chinese Crap out of the box. Good job diagnosing all of its problems!

[@MiniBikeMike]

In the end, the Amigo has been an excellent bike. Yes, it had some assembly issues, but I’ve seen similar issues on American made stuff.

[@lloydfranks1357]

Dude it is a vacuum for the diaphragm fuel pump

[@MiniBikeMike]

🤣🤣 Dude, there’s no fuel pump on these bikes.