I'm a year late, but this thing is amazing - even in narrowband?? ASI2600MC Duo

My Patreon: / cuivlazygeek
ZWO ASI2600MC Pro Duo: bit.ly/3M8IkPS (Agena) or bit.ly/3Jti7KQ (HPS)
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00:00 Introduction
00:52 Explanation vs OAG
03:31 Unboxing
07:08 Connecting to telescope
11:08 Price vs alternatives
13:03 Advantages/Drawbacks
18:55 Test setup
21:35 Results
26:40 So is it any good?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek ZWO ASI2600MC Pro Duo: bit.ly/3M8IkPS (Agena) or bit.ly/3Jti7KQ (HPS) ZWO ASI2600MM Pro Duo: bit.ly/3vvj6GY (Agena) or bit.ly/3w5gMa7 (HPS) Apertura CarbonStar Telescope: bit.ly/3W7ZFiA ZWO M54 Filter Drawer: bit.ly/4b3rkFt (Agena) or bit.ly/4b4HZIY (HPS) TOUPTEK Filter Drawer: bit.ly/3QtO2Pd TOUPTEK IMX571 APS-C Cooled camera: tinyurl.com/mr2yhvcw Dark Sky Geek OAG focuser: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYGXdKN_n6-Gp6M Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/49XTx01 Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV Astroshop.eu Affiliate: tinyurl.com/2vafkax8

[@darkskygeek]

Thanks for the shout out, Cuiv! Great review, as always!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Cheers mate! Your OAG focuser looks incredible!

[@ashandsnow1873]

Love your channel and have learned quite a bit. Thank you!

[@denniscollyer8161]

Great content. As always.

[@marklambert1316]

I've been using this camera for 6 months with 3nm narrowband filters - Ha+OIII and SII - with no problems whatsoever. Very happy with it.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Oh wow, impressive!! Thanks for the feedback! What scope was that?

[@marklambert1316]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Skywatcher Esprit 100ED, AM-5 mount. You need to increase the guide chip gain when shooting S-II, but works great.

[@dadwhitsett]

@@marklambert1316 good to know. I have the 120 mm and a set of 3nm narrowband filters....hope the mono camera will work but this is a good sign.

[@Dionaeatrap]

Great review Cuiv, as always! Been using this cam a few months. Its my first astro upgrade from a Nikon D750 dslr. Thus far love the 2600 duo!! Guiding is nice and easy, even with 3nm HaOiii L-Ultimate and pics even with my early experience are stellar, no pun😅

[@AlBurr]

That's good news for me I hope, but still worried. i have this camera and the Altair 4nm filters on my 81mm William Optics scope at f/4.7

[@liviulazar9387]

Excellent, like always! Great presentation, man!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@davidwillis5396]

Another great one Cuiv. You have helped me think more positive about this camera thank you

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Cheers David! I was pleasantly surprised by the camera I didn't expect it to be that good thb...

[@DanielEspelidPedersen]

Great video as always Cuiv! I just received my ASI533MM Pro about a month ago and I also got the beefy red USB cable with it, very happy with that as I've also had issues with the flat ones before.

[@stew8584]

Cheers, I really enjoyed that, interesting pro's and con's.

[@lavers_1]

Thanks for this info Cuiv! It helped me a lot with my next guiding purchase...you are wicked smart!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Glad I could help! Thanks!!

[@seanod42]

Hi Cuiv great video as always I can't wait to see your new scope video

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Coming soon! But it will take me time, it's a long video to edit!

[@seanod42]

I hope it's a good scope i like the look of it. The carbon tube is nice and small and light hopefully it is good for travelling ect collimation is my interest good or bad? Build quality also i have the same scope as your skywatcher 150p quattro fully upgraded i am disabled and want to reduce the weight of my telescopes i was thinking of getting the askar 120 apo but was worried about the weight and size for me unfortunately because of my house position i can't build a permanent building or pier for my scope i use zwo AM5 mout and tripod i look forward to the video you're a great help for us mear mortals

[@Chiclets1]

Kingdingoling! You are a master of explanations. Thank you.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you!

[@deep_space_dave]

You just pointed out a great feature of the Duo. Because it uses the same filter as the main camera, you rarely have to re-adjust the off axis guider! Congrats on the freebie, perks of being a KZbinr 🙂 Clear Skies!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Exactly! And yes, good to have freebies! Although I will have to pay taxes on it :/

[@deep_space_dave]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek 😲

[@maggiem1323]

Searching 🙏 for Cuiv's review on the Duo and have been sad 😭 by a mere mention (implication) of it in his off-axis review. Cuiv just made up and red our minds. Looking forward to this. Thanks Cuiv👍🥰

[@stewartpope8305]

I just ordered the Carbonstar so I am looking forward to your review. Thanks for the review of the Duo. It inspired me to buy one to go with the Carbonstar.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Enjoy the CarbonStar!

[@RSB9898]

I saw the ASI2600MC duo at Neaf '23 and picked it up when it was available fall of last year. I first had it mated to a Mamiya 250mm lens and then an Askar FRA400. Both were mounted on a iOptron HEM15. With a regular camera tripod this was my traveling set up. I used it in NM for the Annular, and then in Texas for the Total. The Duo really minimizes the equipment you need to take, no need for a OAG or a piggyback guide scope, making it a great travel scope. The HEM15 is also super light weight. Guiding was nominal around 1.5 arcsec. I still need to wring out the cam/scope/mount combination. Since it was purchased as a travel scope for dark skies, I have not, and still not sure if I want to get a dual band filter, or any filters at all. I am with you on the camera ASIAIR combo. I guess if you are a ASIAIR fan it will push your buttons. Not me, I still prefer a laptop (running NINA). My rig at home is a full camera/guide scope/telescope with NB and LRGB filters. I am on Long Island in Bortle 6 skies. Thanks again for your reviews.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That sounds like an amazing travel setup - what tripod do you use with the HEM15?

[@bmur56]

Hard to find videos that speak to more experienced astrophotographers so, no wonder I’m subscribed to your channel! This presentation was great. You hit the most important concerns I would have had about this camera (And some I never would have thought of!). I laughed at the part where you talk about problems that might arise with extremely narrow bandpasses, and then you explain you had not created dark frames for the guide camera. Of course, you are the LAZY geek! … In real life, I don’t think so. Keep up the good work, too bad you’re not my neighbour.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

So happy to see your comment and this feedback!! It makes my day :) thank you!

[@astrobath]

I've bought this camera - absolutely excited and satisfied. They have the MM version already, but for the dark site travelling - it is absolutely the winner when used with asiair mini - light, short cables - makes the astrophoto even more enjoyable!

[@naegeleh]

Thanks a lot Cuiv, for me is very important that the Duo works with NINA and with narrow-band Filters!! Great Info!!

[@physmc1]

That apertura scope looks seriously nice. Looking forward to the review.

[@SeanAlexanderJournalist]

I know, Cuiv is such a tease! He's toying with our emotions simply by mentioning the CARBONSTAR 150! (que: sound of angels singing)

[@physmc1]

@@SeanAlexanderJournalist that being said, I’ve got an Epsilon 160 on the way so the chance of me getting another newt is zero :).

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Spoiler alert: it's good :) the review will probably be something like 50 minutes long though, will take me time to edit :)

[@fdopcxx]

This camera is the best you can use in hyperstar/Rasa configurations with large apertures. I had no issues finding guide stars with the rasa 11 and the NBZ HS filter

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes, it would be incredible on RASA and Hyperstar 8 inch and up (6 inch hyperstar would suffer from the camera thickness)

[@amp2amp800]

Another nice video Cuiv! I've been using my duo on a (reduced f/5.7 456mm) FF80 for a year now. I guide an AM3 (at 0.6" accuracy) with 2 sec exposures through an Antlia Triband RGB filter. I've never had any trouble finding stars. The 220 sensor is a lot bigger than an OAG prism, and my filter isn't very demanding. Since it guides this good, I've never tried 1sec. At 16kg all-up, this rig pushes the envelope of the grab-and-go concept just a little bit (but I do keep it assembled and carry it to roof or balcony on my shoulder). Having one less cable and fewer "stickie-oot-bits" helps a lot with avoiding bumping into doorjams and lamps in transit and, if going on a car journey, the OTA can slip into soft luggage without dismantling and packing the individual accessories. It is a pure delight to use, and so convenient to set up on our private balcony using the ASIair mini's all sky PA feature. I have promised myself to go mono "one day", but I've promised myself full frame too, and a darksky holiday home 🤣. So the MM/duo/air might not be how this all plays out...

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It's great to hear that it's working well - also for me and my puny muscles and body mass, 16kg is definitely not grab and go!!! :) Well, if you have the choice between going mono, or having access to a better area to image from, take the better area!

[@amp2amp800]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek I call it 'grab and groan', but 16kg's not so bad (we're not talking payload here - that's only about 6). After releasing the leg spreader, I just put my shoulder into the angle of AM3 north side of polar axis and stand up (holding it all stable with a hand through the pillars of my PE160. Then l bring the legs together and lift them horizontal letting the OTA point down behind me. I can manage 500m through the building with a battery and lightframe in a rucksack Cuiv, and despite your 'puny' claims I bet you could too... Aaaah but I forgot "lazy" 😂. For me this approach (especially in "on the balcony" mode) IS the ultimate in lazy. I just plant it, do an allsky PA, then hit the cozy sofa for everything else.

[@user-it4ry8fp5o]

I’ve been using this camera for about 6 months with the Askar V at 600mm/f7.5 and the L-extreme with no issues. I just purchased the Askar D1 & D2 filters and looking forward to trying them out. I did have an issue with the fine focusing knob for the guide chip & ZWO was going to send me a new one but they were out of stock, so they repaired it within two weeks. I’m going to get the ASI2600 AIR DUO when it’s available. I’m into fewer items and cables. It’s been a wonderful camera.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I think the D1 and D2 filters should work just as well as the L-eXtreme with the Duo, so I don't expect issues! Glad to see there is indeed a market for the Air! :) Enjoy it once you get it!

[@user-wz2fj3ns6j]

Thanks Cuiv. I have been running my 2600 MC duo on my Stellarvue SVX90 (563mm fl) on an AM5 with great success. Most of my imaging was last summer & fall on various nebulae and a mix of 1 & 2 second guide exposures. It works great even through Antlia ALP-T dual band filters (HaOiii; HbSii). I would buy this set up all over again. I just bought the 2600 MM duo and tried it through Antlia LRGBSHO filters (SHO are 3nm; I can be evil as well). No issues with the LRGB, seemed sort of successful through Sii, less so through Ha, still unsure of Oiii. Need to review the images. 1 second no good through SHO. Only 1 night usage so far and imaged M101 2x5 min per filter. Not a good target, but the best I had and there was some haze and passing thin clouds. I may need a different guide cam for 3nm SHO.

[@user-lt9py2pu6u]

Nice review Cuiv. I really can't afford one these cameras at the moment as I am currently saving for an SWG type mount. My concern regarding this camera was always about the effects of narrow band filters on the sensor, but you have answered that question. The version of the camera with the ASIair built in would come in very handy for the travelling astro photographer, especially if travelling to another country for a holiday as I am considering doing. You would only need the mount, scope, camera and psu and fewer cables to worry about too as no need for guide scopes, mini pcs etc. the down side is of course the loss of versatility and if one part fails thats probably it, the whole unit will be useless. That Newtonian looks nice, look forward to your review on that.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, you summarized the pros and cons of the Air very well! And the Newt review will take a bit of time it's going to be a monster video, probably 50 minutes or so haha

[@turbo80lxcoupe]

Good to see it works with tighter band passes. I tried the oag route on my sct and find it to be too much work. This could be promising

[@redabdab]

Great review! Thanks Cuiv. I use the 2600MC pro with an OAG-L and I love it. My scopes are f/10, f/8 and f/5.4 and I regularly use an L Extreme behind the prism, so I don’t think the duo would be a good fit for me. In practice, I don’t really think the filter-focus thing is an issue because PHD2 doesn’t neeed pin sharp guidestars anyway.

[@sianikolaou5440]

I am definitely eyeing the ASI2600MM DUO as my potential remote observatory camera on a fast refractor

[@scojovb12]

I have the duo and it works perfectly

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It's honestly a good choice, far better than I expected.

[@stevenv9726]

I have been using the Duo for about 3 months now. Never had an issue finding stars with the guide chip, even during galaxy season. A non-issue.

[@ShreyasAKale]

I've been using this with an EdgeHD 11, and it works like a champ. It works better with the 0.7x reducer, as the ASIAir starts to have issues solving at the native focal length. It *is* sometimes hard to find a decent guide star, but I tend to crank the gain or shift the FOV slightly (not by rotating). For the deeper scopes, you have use this or an OAG, as flexure makes mounted guide scopes unworkable. The duo also runs great on the 151phq on an AM5. I think the best parts are the easy setup and takedown, and ease when traveling.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's great to hear! It's a solid camera, better than I expected...

[@allenbaylus3378]

I bought the Duo on a black Friday sale - I did not receive it until Feb. I have not had the chance to use it - but I have mounted it to my visual train already - waiting for weather to give me a good night or two in a row and work to ease up.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Fingers crossed for some clear nights soon!

[@alejandrohuerta988]

I might have missed you mentioning it but another advantage to the duo is you can cool the guide sensor as well.

[@ApoorvaIyer]

This can't be true. I have one and nowhere does the manual or the software let me choose a temperature for both sensors.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Wait, does it get cooled along with the main sensor? My guess is that the cold finger doesn't extend there but I'd need to check

[@ApoorvaIyer]

Pretty sure it doesn’t

[@TheTabugman]

Thanks Cuiv. Happy I went the OAG route. Strainwave type mounts requires very fast guiding, ie exposures between 0.5-1.5s typically so your test isn't evil. 😊 That said, my scope is slower than yours.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for your support mate! Also yeah, OAG is really so good overall... Cheers!

[@MrApollo20000]

hello cuiv. I'm Olli and I come from Germany. First of all, thank you for your videos, they help me a lot. I have two telescopes myself. once the Pleiades 68 AP 68/260 and the celestron 8" EdgheHD. I use the Celestron cgx as a mount. So far I've only been able to test the duo on the Pleiades and it works perfectly. I'll soon test it on the edghe with a 0.7 reducer and I'm also very excited to see whether It will find guiding stars. I think it also depends on the region and the weather. I live in a bortle class 4-5 region. Now we'll see

[@WilliFromEarth]

Great review! Thank you. The monochrome (MM) version is available now from their webpage for US$ 2'500.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for the info!

[@u2b4laz]

Sweet! I can now use OAG when I use the hyperstar on my SCT! Thanks for cranking out these informative videos... you're going to lose your "lazy" reputation.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's actually such an excellent use case! Except if it's Hyperstar C6, in which case the camera is just too fat...

[@u2b4laz]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek good point... mine's a 925!

[@KingLoopie1]

It's a nice camera for sure. I bought an sbig st-2000xcm with dual ccd's (not cmos) a long time ago when I was planning to get into this imaging part of the hobby and never even tried it out... Couldn't get every thing + the time to use it together in one place. So there it sits, in the box of useless to me stuff. 🙄 (I was going to laugh at you for having those adapters laying around in a box somewhere, but then I realized that I probably have a bigger box of "hey, maybe I can use this someday..." parts than you...) All is good! You brought up some valid points about the dual sensor cons which are probably the reason that they feel out of favor in the first place. If there were good main sensors that were round, maybe that would negate the framing problem? I don't know... Good video! 👍👍

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks man! Let me know if you want to send me that camera for testing and comparison with the Duo haha (I would send it back of course)

[@KingLoopie1]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek You might find it's more of a hassle than you might want, what with the driver chase, blooming, big 7.4um pixels, the water cooling and the slow 4.5 second usb1.1 /frame downloading. If you are interested, I'll dig it out and send it. I'll see if I can figure out the patron page (kinda retarded when it comes to these things and I don't belong to any social networking like fb, x, etc). /Dave

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yeah, maybe not worth it indeed!

[@thebst6408]

celestron 8 Edge HD the guide camera works only with the hyperstar v4 54 thread and i couldn't makes it work with the reducer 😢

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I think it should be possible, I've seen other comments being successful, but I guess you need the right adapter!

[@stevenv9726]

Regarding narrow band guiding, I use a 90mm refractor at F5.4, Optolong L-Ultimate, zero problems with guiding. Cheers!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Great to know!

[@The13rannon]

I’m using it on an edge11 and can use a 12nm ha filter with now issues at all. Sometime finding guide stars can be challenging if I’m shooting galaxies, but I either rotate or nudge the mount around until I see one.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's very good to hear! I'm actually surprised it worked so well!

[@ssrattus]

Thanks

[@T.K.9]

crazy how that camera alone is half the price of that upcoming Celestron Origin !

[@testboga5991]

You pay for sensor real estate. The Origin has a tiny, cheap sensor.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

True! Although you get two high quality sensors, compared to the Origin's old and outdated one (I'm still surprised and disappointed that they went with that, what were they thinking?). Also initial images I'm seeing are not impressive

[@aakoksal]

Now you'll be late to do the 2600MM Duo...!!! Looking forward to that review...

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

And the 2600 Air I guess :)

[@ridetheliger4176]

The DUO has a built-in UV/IR cut filter. I’m using it with an Askar FRA300 and an AM3. With the L-Ultimate, I still use an extra guide scope, I haven’t pushed the exposure lengths beyond 1s for guiding though.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I didn't even realize it had that built in filter, I'm too used to AR camera windows! I actually see that as a disadvantage....

[@photonqopt]

Could you elaborate why built-in uv-ir filter is a disadvantage?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

If you want to use something like the IDAS GNB filter, you're out of luck! I prefer to bring my own filters :)

[@The_Vinceable]

Zwo: You should not use filters less than 7nm Cuiv: hold my beer! Love it! This is why we keep coming back for these videos 😊

[@jodyschultz5870]

Well you could rotate the duo to pick up more stars in the guide sensor but that would reframe the shot on the main which may not be a big issue. The narrow band issue is a deal breaker for me. Maybe ZWO could just make a camera that goes where the prism goes? No that wont work because you will have focal issues. Love the review! Thanks Cuiv.

[@mr.b3054]

Cuiv, another excellent video. Is there any reason you could not use the on board guide sensor and instead use an external guide scope/camera?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Oh you absolutely can! Before I changed the focuser I suffered from flexure and the focuser sagging, so an OAG was a must

[@bymartinek]

Thank you Cuiv for very nice video. I saw quite a few about this camera but finally I got answers for most of my questions. There is still one left, and probably very stupid. If the camera is rotated do I have to recalibrate the guiding? The same would apply for OAG, depending where I do the rotation. Or is the software somehow smart to include the rotation into the equations? This might be very important with upcoming electronic rotator. Thanks again!

[@mattysastropics]

Great video Cuiv - One use case I think these cameras are good for is when using camera lenses. When using Canon lenses, you have 44mm to work with, not the typical 55mm of most correctors/reducers. By eliminating the OAG, you can fit a filter wheel/drawer in there and still guide at the same focal length as the main optic. Also - how are you liking the CYCK focuser? I want to give it another shot, but I really don't like the clamping ring on the drawtube. Any thoughts on what to replace that with?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Very, very good point on camera lenses, makes the setup quite tiny! I haven't been able to test the CYCK rigorously yet - the clamping ring doesn't look so bad, but no idea what you could replace it with tbh! I guess you'd need to measure the thread size, I'm sure adapters exist or could be built

[@alcosound]

Looks very useful. Since I own a C9.25 and a Skymax 180, though, I think that I'll pass and go for the OAG route... (if I win the lottery, that is - buying an IMX571 cooled camera and NB filters and OAG is not cheap at all)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Fingers crossed that you do win the lottery haha

[@mick_hyde]

Having dust palpitations the way you're handling those cameras 😯

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hahaha sorry!

[@thebst6408]

hello cuiv , dose it work with celestron Edge HD 8 and it's reducer i put it in my channel ❤

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Some other comments say they've been using it with EdgeHD so it should work, but then you'd need some adapter from the reducer threads to M54

[@thebst6408]

@CuivTheLazyGeek i did that of course but the stars is not clear and its hard to find one , thanks dude me and my soon love you from Saudi Arabia ❤️

[@McTavish11T7]

Thanks Cuiv, love your enthusiasm for the hobby and it's always fun and informative to watch your videos :)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Glad you enjoy it! :)

[@perry3928]

Thanks for the review Cuiv. My concern with this type of cam is if the guide chip or main goes down, your done. I like the option to swap a guide cam or main, to keep the imaging going. Jmo.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, that's a very good point! Although tbh, in such cameras, the chip isn't the problem - the main board and the cooling systems will statistically fail first...

[@shubhamcweb]

A few years from now after I graduate I'll get the RedCat 71 with the 2600MC Duo on an AM3, all controlled with an Air Mini. Super portable and capable astrophotography setup that I can take to places and on airplanes. What do you think?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

For ultra portability, you could even consider something like the HEM15, and maybe a smaller Redcat:-)

[@malanstecker]

While the imaging sensor is excellent, the guide stars from my ZWO ASI2600 Duo with both a Celestron 9.25-inch EdgeHD at f/7 and a William Optics ZenithStar 73 are distorted and not round so the guiding is bad. I get much better results with separate a guide scope and guide camera. Plus, when using the JPEG share function on Asiair the resolution is downsized so it is actually less with the Duo than what I get with a smaller sensor ZWO ASI533MC-Pro camera.

[@ridetheliger4176]

The imaging circle of the scope is not big enough. If it is close to full-frame size, then there is no issue.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Interesting, and good to know! I never really had issues with misshapen stars for guiding as PHD2 seems very good at not caring about that. I'm really surprised/impressed you don't have flexure issues with the 9.25inch with an external guide scope btw! Guiding numbers aren't everything at that focal length with an external guider!

[@deankos3309]

Hiya, thanks for the video, very interesting….. I assume both sensors are in focus at the same point ? Autofocus wouldn’t send the guiding out of focus would it ? Although guiding would need to be paused obviously when an autofocus routine was happening say, between filter change ……

[@astrofromhome]

Next time please send ZWO to me in case they have give aways because of "cosmetic" defects. 😂 I now have three fully equipped scopes, three mounts in with tripods (in a few weeks) but only 2 main imaging cameras. 😟 I also use a 220mm-Mini and an 120mm-Mini in OAGs. The 220 is a real beast. With the 120mm I always have to plan my frame based on potential guide stars. With the 220 I just point the telescope that the main camera defines the frame. I will need to get another 220.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes, I'm very, very impressed by the 220!

[@N4GW]

Good video

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@davidletz9123]

I was interested in getting this camera, but the I realized that I rarely get to use the equipment I've already purchased because of lousy weather where I live, and where I'd like to go to escape it.

[@T.K.9]

got the same issue South of the UK. Rain most of the year. For now I am testing out the S50 and see what she takes on welsh skies.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yeah if something doesn't get used... It doesn't really make sense to have it in the first place...

[@astroimagers]

Great points- pros and cons 🎉 That newt looks beautiful too 😊

[@TheCosmicGuy0111]

Nice!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@frackcenturion]

as me being a mechanic by trade trust me and put the the tiniest dob of anti seize on every thread of those step down rings 😁👍

[@siegfriednoet]

Interesting review Quiv, though still have my doubts on how it would perform lets say with an f7 refractor and an L-Ultimate filter that is 3nm If it was cheaper I would try it myself Ow and about shooting true the same filter and refocussing with oag if not, I guess there are not many people using no filters at all, so changing filters won't do anything at focuspoint because most filters have an even thickness I suppose, so I never had to refocus my oag with a filter switch. Maybe with people who really luckily live in very dark areas but they should also use at least an uv-ir, what do you think about that ?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I don't think it would work at F7 with an L-Ultimate tbh...

[@siegfriednoet]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks Quiv, that saved me a lot of money

[@aaronwilliams3949]

Cuiv, could you try the Starizona Nexus with the Apertura Carbon Star? I’m using it with the Skywatcher 130PDS and it pushes the focus tube into the light path but not the Nexus itself. Thinking about cutting the tube or purchasing the Carbon Star.

[@Mike_Gibbs971]

Hey Cuiv, what specific auto-focuser are you using on that Apertura scope? I recently bought that scope and would like to use something other than the ZWO EAF... Thanks for all you do for us!!!

[@ESF19791111]

INTERESTING :) THANK YOU FOR SHARING :) THANK YOU FROM ISRAEL :)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

My pleasure!

[@user-xn8bd1ub8v]

Cuiv, when will you be doing a review video of the Apertura Carbon Star Newtonian telescope?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Next week!

[@user-xn8bd1ub8v]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Sweet! Looking forward to it! Keep up the great work!

[@brod5352]

I'd really like to see the 2600 MC Duo on a SCT like an 8" Edge HD. And Pegasus Astro has made an OAG with built in auto focus for a number of years now. It's called a SCOPS OAG and it works quite well. But having the guide camera on the same plane as the main sensor solves the focusing issue as they are both always at the same focus. That would allow me to remove the SCOPS OAG which is 31mm thick. It just barely works with my 8" Edge HD. ;0)

[@sarahjanereilly9335]

I am hearing that it is not great with the 8 Edge HD and I am interested as I am looking at a new rig incorporating that scope. General wisdom seems to be to go OAG (possibly ZWO) with high quality guide cam - ASi174mm as a minimum, second choice is a trad guide scope. Would like to see more opinions and actual use experience on this though, as the duo would be cool.

[@Colton_Acree]

The duo works fine for me on the ehd8 without a reducer, but with the .7 reducer, the Imaging circle is reduced and so is the light that gets to the guide sensor. That makes using narrowband filters difficult. I've actually ordered an oag to use with the duo just for the edge 8. I beleive the ehd9.25 and up have larger imaging circles with their respective reducers.

[@The13rannon]

I’m using it on an edge11 and can use a 12nm ha filter with now issues at all. Sometime finding guide stars can be challenging if I’m shooting galaxies, but I either rotate or nudge the mount around until I see one.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Imaging circle and light falloff/vignetting come into play, although from what I hear, with the reducer it shouldn't be a problem. I wish ZWO have a 533 Duo or a 294 Duo with the guide sensor closer to the center!

[@MagnaQ]

Hi there. Why do we need a second camera for guiding? Couldn't a computer program select a star on the main camera picture and guide?

[@AmatureAstronomer]

Neat.

[@Reverend-JT]

I'm surprised no-one else has released a clone yet. There would be a delicious irony if it's due to a patent.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes, I want to see clones, and for smaller sensors too!! I hope there's no patent, since there's obviously prior art. Although maybe the microfocuser could be patented?

[@gary5051]

Cuiv, what about the Duo when used with a filterwheel - probably the more common use case? How large must each filter be to include enough of the image circle to achieve the guiding results you presented but that were based only on the filter drawer? Was there a reason you decided to only review the Duo in the context of the filter drawer?

[@ridetheliger4176]

2 inch filters and close to full frame size image circle.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

2 inch filters are required - it makes no difference whether it's in a filter wheel or a filter drawer

[@carsonmanley3810]

Hey Cuiv, question for you - which coma corrector was used for the testing? I've been following the release of the Carbon Star 150 very closely and with the Apertura (Sharpstar clone) 0.95x corrector I don't believe that scope has a large enough image circle on paper to support the 2600 Duo. If it's doing so anyway, that's promising!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I was using the Apertura corrector! Didn't know it was a Sharpstar clone though

[@carsonmanley3810]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Good news for the Duo! I believe the Sharpstar 2" 0.95x, TS Mayfield 0.95x, and now this Apertura 0.95x are all the same. I use the Sharpstar version and my copy is quite good for my standard 2600MC, but it's nice to see that I could probably use it with a Duo as well.

[@nojaysimpson]

My experience with the duo with an RC8 and optolong Lpro is not good. Gain has to be upwards of 400 and even then it’s not a reliable set it and forget it type of imaging session. My AM5 doesn’t do well with 1 second or longer exposure and the darks don’t work on .5 exp. So this camera set should be approached with cautious optimism per setup.

[@derekderek2570]

400?! Sheesh

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's very interesting, and I feel something else is the issue. For all intents and purposes the LPro is a broadband filter, so there should be plenty of light reaching the guide sensor - so basically it should be the same as an OAG. Maybe the guide chip is simply too far off from the axis and an OAG Prism could be put closer (but that also would require a smaller sensor).

[@pshulins]

Any thoughts on how this might work with a large aperture scope like a 14" RC despite the fact that the FL would be around 2600 mm? More light gathering power might overcome the higher focal length limitation of FOV?

[@thewheelieguy]

It all works out to the focal ratio, which considers brightness with field of view and aperture in one numeric figure. F/8 means 1/4 the relative illumination vs f/4

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Tough to say, narrowband may have trouble at F8, also you need to check the light falloff/vignetting...

[@pshulins]

Thanks. Really good content. Keep up the good work! I am putting together a new system with a 14” and will probably stick with OAG. But really good job at highlighting both sides!

[@ToddMargolis]

Cuiv isn't one of the other advantages of using this instead of off axis guiding that you didn't lose any light from the prism? I'd be very interested in a video analysis from you on how much that effects your imaging time! Is it like dropping one F stop?

[@thewheelieguy]

I wouldn't think the OAG prism intercepts any light that would have hit the sensor. The light is all very nearly parallel so close to the focal plane.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Mmmh I don't think the OAG prism loses that much light, I'd assume it works like a mirror... I probably won't be able to test since I'd need to buy a separate 220 camera:)

[@ToddMargolis]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek thanks for sharing your thoughts. Maybe zwo would send you a 220?

[@netmaster78]

Does that camera match with something like an EDGE HD8?

[@testboga5991]

I'd be worried about *not* being able to focus them independently. Can't defocus the guide without main and I'm screwed if they aren't perfectly aligned. Also, H-alpha is going to suck.

[@stevecase3828]

The guide sensor has its own focus knob.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

You can - the guide sensor has its microfocuser

[@ctortolini]

Thanks for this... But I need to see a review with a SCT at 1500mm or more and 3nm filters... Are you up to the task?😊

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Errrr, I don't have any scope with a large enough imaging circle, nor do I have the 3nm filters haha

[@Jcastleinfo]

I've used it on a Edge8 with reducer (~1400mm/F7). Only about half the guide cam gets stars. It actually worked fine on nebulae with lots of stars but less so for galaxies, especially with an Antlia quad band filter so I wouldn't;t trust it on anything more narrowband. Interestingly enough, in this setup AA+ seemed to work better than NINA/PHD2. PHD2 calibration gave a lot of errors. I have refractors too so I'll use it where it makes sense but for galaxies I'm just going to get an OAG (check out OGMA for good looking reasonable priced OAG set). In the end I think the price difference for the DUO is worth it for the convenience of a grab&go setup for refractors.

[@ctortolini]

@jcastleinfo thanks... What is the mount you used it with on the Edge, and what is your exposure time for guiding?

[@Jcastleinfo]

@@ctortolini CEM40, 3s on the Antlia Quadband. Only half the guide sensor getting stars is due to the small image circle of the Edge8 with reducer. Your RC8 may have a better image circle. Many people claim it performs "great" on the Edge8 but I don't think they were shooting many galaxies and not with a strain wave mount. I'm planning to upgrade to NYX101 this summer so the fast guiding requirements of strain wave also make me nervous and another good reason to just stick to an OAG.

[@Jcastleinfo]

Also the above was at Gain 350 on AA+

[@yobb89]

i thaught about getting the mono version i forgot how hard it will be to off axis guide in narrowband ..

[@scojovb12]

You can place the off axis guider before the filter wheel.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, with this camera that's the weakness.. an OAG wouldn't have that issue

[@rafaberrios8142]

Do You Really Need That UVIR filter with the 2600? I thought it came with.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Oh good point! Might be unneeded - I'm used to cameras just having an AR window

[@woody5109]

Question, when you say you cooled to minus 10c, do you actually mean 10c cooler then ambient?

[@TheTabugman]

Doubt it. The Asi can easily cool to 30° C below ambient, so he probably cooled to -10 like he said.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

To -10C, as @TheTabugman mentions!

[@anata5127]

Will it work with high FL high F-ratio scopes?

[@didierpeyret9561]

Simply cut the filter following a line between the 2 sensors. This way, only the imaging sensor will receive the filtered light. A new market for filter manufacturers? Anyone want to try??😉

[@EugeneRu777]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@BryonStice]

When I first saw this I thought it was cool but I don't think the image circle on my C6/hyperstar is big enough to guide or even image properly with this.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Not to mention the camera is far too thick for the C6 Hyperstar, your central obstruction would be crazy!

[@JemCruz]

Is the guidecam cooled as well?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I'm actually not sure, I need to check!

[@raphaelcoelho1557]

I don't get the comment on 2600 duo air. The advantage of having it is the same of duo. Single cable, many parts and flexion risks mitigated. I'll sell all and buy the air version for sure. Besides for traveling with a simples device.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I have several misgivings that I've mentioned in another video, but mainly: - only two power ports - intensified single point of failure - what if someone wants to later buy a non-ZWO focuser, automated flat panel, or rotator which are not supported by the ASIAir? Or their mount has trouble with the ASIAir? They'll need to control that camera via something else, like a PC. Apparently it will be possible over Wifi (since it's official that it won't be possible over cabled connection), but I have my doubts about speed and reliability in that case (causing imaging overhead). Strategically it's brilliant, as it intensifies the ZWO lock-in.

[@Hilmi12]

Your 4nm testing is flawed with dual band filter. You are letting in light from two frequencies so total light coming in is more than single band pass 4nm. Also, is the guide chip cooled? In hot weather it gets very hot inside the enclosure and the guide chip gets very noisy

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It's a color camera, so that would be the most common use case, no? I don't think many people use single band narrowband with a monochrome camera - I can of course use single band NB filters to extrapolate how well they would work with the MM! Not sure whether the guide chip gets cooled, I'll check!

[@Hilmi12]

@CuivTheLazyGeek nobody ever talks about guide chip temperatures but in light pollution with high temperatures the noise gets so bad it makes it hard to detect guide stars at f7 even without filters. The setup makes lots of sense wirh color cameras, with mono cameras and slow scope, don't think it will work well

[@davidstearn1342]

How about at test at f/7?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Nico carver/nebula photos seems to have some good tests at f6.3! But something to take into account is also light fall-off/imaging circle!

[@bbasiaga]

I've used it with a C11 and Starizona LF reducer. My mount wanst quite up to it, but the guide cam had no problems keeping stars. I only tried broadband.

[@Neanderthal75]

In the light of 3 different duo cameras now (mc duo, mm duo, mc air duo) , I wish ZWO would reduce the price for the plain vanilla mc/mm pro, for us for us traditional OAG and guide scope loving poor astrophotographers! 🤣

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I absolutely agree! If the Air is the same price, the Duo price should be reduced

[@icyxxxxx]

Hello

[@tomwolf9420]

The moment when the pronunciation of the equipments name takes longer than the rest of the sentence…😂

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep hahahaha

[@drstuartporter8248]

I've just bought a 2600 boy this hobby is getting expensive!!!!!

[@RobertKarlBerta]

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys ;-)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Congrats on your new camera! And yeah, I hear you!

[@drstuartporter8248]

Fabulous hobby though isn't it!

[@Darren_71]

I've never refocused a guidescope No need.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That depends, on fast scopes, switching from an Astrodon Ha (3mm thick) to an SVbony L filter (1mm thick) for instance triggers a massive change in focus. The faster the scope the larger the impact.

[@Darren_71]

Yeah, but even if the guider focus changes, you can still guide with fat stars, in fact it's probably easier?

[@huf67]

1:34 ... Hmmm, maybe a high speed rail system that circumnavigates the earth at the latitude lines that runs at the speed of the earth rotation so that the stars appear to never move ? 🤔 I'll start working on a prototype... What's Elon Musks phone number again ?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hahahaha yes, now THAT is a solution Musk would approve of :)

[@Zh3000]

unfortunately my ASI2600MC Duo have vibrating cooler problem, even with new fan speed regulation technology, on focal length 2000mm satellite tracks are wavy and sawtooth shaped and stars are blurred and elongated

[@scojovb12]

I have also noticed sound coming from the fan. I have a QHY and it is absolutely quiet. I think the build quality may be lacking, but I like their innovation.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That is something common with ZWO cameras, I actually have a video about it - you can try buying some cheap silicon standoffs from Noctua, it seems to fix the problem for a lot of people!

[@Zh3000]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek Yes, I'll try!

[@johnjewell219]

👍👏🐈‍⬛🇦🇺😎

[@dereksmith4517]

So Santa was late?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hahaha yes