Cultish: The Baha'i Faith: A Critical Examination , Pt 1

[@ApologiaStudios]

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[@gummywormjim]

I was raised Baha'i. I'm not sure about the part where Baha'i's demand that a world religion or a world government be formed under them specifically. The idea is that unity is the answer. Whether that is unity under the Baha'i faith or unity without it, the goal is unity. Not supremacy. Not control. Unity.

[@audreykemp9191]

Yes, no religion is preferable to one that segregates or ostracizes. We are all one of us. No exceptions.

[@mandatahirih]

It is false unity I was raised in it too.

[@audreykemp9191]

​@@mandatahirih The path to unity may be traveled alone or together. The destination? It becomes homeostatic, not fixed, but "Ever Advancing Civilization." It is inevitable. Rather than thinking of a command, in some sense, instead, learn to recognize the accuracy of the predictions, like "Curve Ahead" signs on the mountain roads. Assuming your driving skills have improved since you read the manual, it was the practice of them that prepared you for the joy of this lofty view ~ Oh, and lots of metaphors orders of magnitude more refined and delicious than the one above. My questions, my "veils," have centered around the expectation of persecution in a seemingly tolerant country, people pleasing, and victimhood. Again education, then, developmental psychology, and pedagogy have helped to parse the relevant bits. But, now, we see the unthinkable in the streets. So, the mindset was not so paranoid after all. To educate ourselves and actively pursue the understanding that leads to compassion for those who are different from ourselves-- to "Love Thy Neighbor"-- emerges as a renewed imperative. Well, no one can make "those people" love thy neighbor. I can only make myself do it. But adaptive humans catch on. It is inevitable. Sooner or later, it is evident as day.

[@amiecielica]

As a former Baha'i, I can tell you are wrong. The Baha'i teach the ONLY way for ultimate world peace and unity is through the acceptance of Baha'u'llah, the Baha'i Faith, and the Baha'i world order. You really need to do your research on the Baha'i teachings of the Lessor Peace and the Most Great Peace. There are actual plans developed by Baha'i leaders for what a Baha'i administrative world order will look like and run.

[@marciodouglas7022]

​@@amiecielica quem é o Deus da fé baha'i? Seria o próprio satanás, vc como ex baha'i as orações obrigatória é as orações baha'i é pra um falso Deus vc acha que a fé baha'i é a religião do anticristo? Desde já agradeço pela sua resposta, eu pergunto a vc pq vc é único que pode me responde até pq vc é ex baha'i.

[@johnmurray1529]

I have a friend who he and his family left Iran as refugees. They were persecuted for being Baha'i. They are wonderful people. He and I would have back and forth discussions. I know enough about my Christian faith to pin him on much of our discussions. Our talks were great for me. I had no idea this was a religion. It helped me to strengthen my faith in order to better defend my faith. He still remains a good friend even despite our difference in faith.

[@brianccase4925]

awesome story. it is amazing the persecution of the kindest most enlightened humble humanitarians in the world... are the nicest, most grateful and obedient to God even after the horrors of being from place where ones throat get cut or women men and kids get tortured and some killed and all for their belief in God. #BahaiFaith #AllReligionsAgree #OneGod #OnePeople #OneFaith #SeekLight #ProgressiveRevelation #Islam #HaifiIstrael

[@symonelovesJesus]

​@brianccase4925 they aren't obedient to God because they don't believe or obey what the One True God has said. ‭‭John‬ ‭14:6‬ "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." ‭‭John‬ ‭6:40‬ "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.'" ‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:11‭-‬12‬ "This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.'" ‭‭John‬ ‭3:17‭-‬18‬ "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

[@aryaazizi9312]

Nice story, man. It's nice to hear that people of different faiths can talk and discuss each other's differences in beliefs and still be friends.

[@lindsaydiscovers9842]

God, you sound like a narcissist.

[@anthonys5153]

In John 14:6 Jesus is correct in his statement during his time and age… Christ also said there will be other prophets and to judge them by their fruits for a bad tree will have no good fruit. Christ also said he would return as well, if Christ returns would you be able to recognize him? Remember 99% of all Jews in his time didn’t recognize him the first time.

[@user-zt6nm5gz4g]

I was Muslim and became Bahai and start to loving the world .We have to start from somewhere to love all races. Either you don’t know the meaning of CULT or you getting it all wrong about this wonderful faith. And thank you for talking about our faith with respect

[@aaronlee75]

A primer on Baha'i apologetics pt 1.... my personal perspective. Primary sources are found in Kitab'i'Iqan and Some Answered Questions. The Baha'i approach isn't to win or lose, but rather to get another to ask questions. Independent Investigation is a BIG thing. Similar to being "Born Again", having eyes to see, ears to hear, and so a mind to comprehend. A person decides things for themselves, from their own perspective, what is and isn't true. There's a bit of relativism in individual understanding of "truth". Dualistic views are also allowed, so long as they aren't contradictory. Example... The color of the sky. From the ground up, it's blue. From orbit, it's clear. Both are true. But it can't be argued that the atmosphere exists. Think of a dimmer switch, rather than an on / off switch. The Baha'i school of thought is a softer form, far more fluid than rock solid. Its said there are 4 main ways of knowing. Senses and objective phyisical measurements, reason, traditions and history, and intuition / inspiration. The more of these you can check off in an arguement the closer it is to being true. Unity is a major major theme. Baha'is prefer to maintain unity rather than be technically right, esp. unity of action. "Deeds, not words" is also a major principle. You may have heard similar sayings. Baha'is are to avoid arguements that begin in words and end in words, basically accomplishing nothing. These are some insights on Baha'i mindset.

[@TBRRBT]

The Bahai faith; like many religions, has destroyed families based on their lack of acceptance of the LGBTQ community. Instead of following someone; follow yourself and your own individual spiritual path with your God/Goddess/The Gods. Thank you for letting me share. Blessed Be ✨️

[@aaronlee75]

@@TBRRBT That's something for the general comments. But that's also why Baha'is have Independent Investigation of Truth. Figure out for yourself what is true for you. You do you Boo... and we can still be friends, agreeing on 4 out of 5 things... *shrug* PBWY

[@TBRRBT]

@@aaronlee75 The Bahai; in my opinion, are fake Christian wannabes. The Bahai faith is doomed to fail. Besides; to accept all that the God/Goddess/The Gods are, one must accept everything and every teaching. Do you accept Anton LaVey and the Satanic Bible? If not, you fail to accept all that God/Goddess/The Gods are/is.

[@divinebahaiknowledge]

@@TBRRBT LGBTQ was invented by mankind, not natural. Pray to turn away from “pride” and sin. God made man and woman.

[@MultiSciGeek]

That actually sounds great

[@sarahysasaga7136]

Im bahai Born and raised....its truly an amazing faith..not a cult. Im proud to be a bahai

[@philipwilkie3239]

It is easy and lazy to pin the label 'cult' on any group you do not like. There are however a number of clear cut characteristics that are well understood as markers of a cult - and in my long experience the Baha'i' Faith does not qualify for any of them. Independent investigation of truth is a core principle It does not isolate it's members from family, friends or insist they live in closed communities It does not demand or require donations. There is a strict code of anonymous, voluntary donation. There are no clergy or priests. While some believers of capacity and recognised service will naturally become more prominent in the community, this alone does not give their views or opinions any more legitimacy than anyone else's. The Administration is essentially democratically accountable and is organised to separate individual power from institutional power. There are no secret inner circles or hidden 'esoteric' knowledge only accessible to a privileged few. If you wish to leave the Faith you are entirely free to do so without consequence. (Which is different to wanting to attack the Faith from within or divide it's essential unity - that will necessarily attract a response.) I could go on - but these are the primary tests for 'cult' and the Baha'i' Faith clearly is NOT one by these basic measures.

[@rickhall517930]

You misunderstand the meaning of the term.

[@philipwilkie3239]

@@rickhall517930 Well the word 'cult' is one of those words that people use rather carelessly these days. I outlined in some detail what I think are the hallmarks of cult behaviour - what do you mean by it?

[@k.s.nichols4060]

​@@rickhall517930Philip is probably right. I've been following Rick Alan Ross's work for some time, and the list of qualifications Philip pointed out are almost verbatim. Scientology does all of those things. The Manson family. I really haven't seen evidence the Bahai do these things.

[@wingedinfinity777]

I think what's happening is he is calling certain belief systems as a cult when finding their system takes away a certain level of freedom. Obviously there's no definite line between what is freedom within reason and what is just a free-for-all party-like-its-1999 organization ('Do what thou wilt'). Setting up a COMPULSORY EDUCATION WORLDWIDE is a scary concept currently and does sound like very tight controls, the very opposite of free will.

[@GazerOfShoe]

​@@philipwilkie3239You worship a guy who was alive recently enough to have been photographed. It's a cult, my boy

[@QueenTiye54]

I'm really enjoying this despite how many things are wrong. So many things are really well researched. Thanks for doing this.

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

What exactly was wrong that was said in the video? I would be interested on exactly was wrong. I am a Christian. Do you subscribe to a particular religion?

[@QueenTiye54]

@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 I am a Bahá'í. Been a while since I watched the video to say what was wrong. I can watch again

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

@@QueenTiye54 Ok. Thank you. I would love to know exactly what is not correct concerning the Baha'i Faith. As a Christian I have never wanted to misrepresent the Baha'i Faith.

[@QueenTiye54]

​@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 Ok, Yaya wasn't the "rightful successor" so that's one thing. Second, the Bahá'í Faith emerges from Islam the same way Christianity emerges from Judaism. It isn't the same religion. Third, while it's easy to paint the Bahá'í Faith as "left-leaning" Bahá'ís are apolitical. I know some Bahá'ís who are very much right leaning. Fourth, while the Universal House of Justice is only men, and it's hard for Bahá'is to understand, that is the only area with that restriction. Every other governing body is both gender. Fifth, no it's actually very easy to express moral outrage. Bahá'ís believe that God calls us to Holiness and "sin" is man's adherence to his lower animal nature. Humanity is CAPABLE, and RESPONSIBLE to rise to the calling of being made in the image of God. Six, Bahá'ísm isn't a thing. 😂 Seven, NO Manifestation of God is "obsolete". How could ANY Manifestation be "obsolete". Rather, the Guidance that God gives us is relevant to this day and Humanity's stage of development. So many Bahá'í teachings make more sense when married to what Jesus taught and vice versa.

[@brett5237]

​@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 The history and summary of principles was pretty accurate, in the video but a number of the assumptions made and description of its deeper teachings were not. Some corrections or clarifications... "Bahá'í World Faith" is officially discouraged as a name, though it had been used in some earlier Bahá'í literature. If you're talking about the religion, it should be "The Bahá'í Faith" (and not "Bahaism" or "The Bahá'í"-the latter is only used to refer to an individual or as an adjective). Muhammad is seen as the Spirit of Truth come again. Bahá'u'lláh is the return of Christ in the Glory of the Father. The Bahá'í Faith *began* as an offshoot of Shi'ih Islam, but it is an independent religion, as attested to by even the Islamic regimes bent on destroying it. Its relationship to Islam is like that of Christianity to Judaism. One significant misrepresentation to correct is that Bahá'í offshoots since the time of Bahá'u'lláh are in fact very, very small in their total numbers (no more than several hundred people). As promised by Bahá'u'lláh, the Bahá'í Faith has maintained its essential world-wide unity despite attacks upon it-the Day not followed by a night of spiritual darkness. Its social teachings are not just intended for Bahá'ís. Although Bahá'ís believe that the Manifestation of God for humanity today is Bahá'u'lláh, and also believe that the Holy Spirit is speaking again through Him today as the "way, the truth, and the life", that "exclusivity" doesn't negate Bahá'ís believing in charity for all, spreading our social teachings to all such as the elimination of prejudices of all kinds, equality of the sexes, harmony of science and religion, etc., and associating with people of all religions in fellowship. Some of the Bahá'í social teachings revolve around social justice concerns, but the actual teachings cannot fairly be described as "woke"; for example, the Bahá'í Faith gives responsibilities to blacks as well as whites in race relations; it does not believe in an Original Sin of whiteness; it gives duties to women as well as men in terms of establishing the equality of men and women, etc. Some Bahá'ís may latch on to our social teachings and neglect our more important moral and spiritual teachings, giving the impression to some of this being a Leftist social movement, but it most definitely is not. Bahá'ís join for a variety of reasons. A lot of Bahá'ís have come through intellectual belief and through the Faith's explication of Biblical prophecy, while yes, some others adopted more based on feelings. This is surely not different from the variety of reasons people become Christians. The Bahá'í Faith is not congruent with all of the song "Imagine" as Bahá'ís believe in the existence of heaven and the need for religion (as well as the need for private property rights, while believing in voluntary sharing of wealth). The Bahá'í Faith is only against "unbridled nationalism", not against a "sane and legitimate patriotism". The world government and international tribunal promoted refers to a federated world government with elected representatives, not a dystopian, over-centralized tyranny. One world language is not necessarily Esperanto; Bahá'u'lláh called on parliaments around the world to choose an existing language together or an invented language to use in addition to native languages. I could go on if you like, e.g., on the teachings about evil, on Christ, etc., but I figure has been quite a bit...

[@purelythemusic]

You did a very good job of misrepresenting some aspects of the Baha'i faith. I hope people look into it for themselves and investigate 🙌

[@templetonusher6373]

The Baha’i Faith is amazing! Thanks for this great overview with only limited mistakes, so overall excellent job. The Baha’i Faith fulfills the promises of the religions before - hence why it’s teaching are for this age: mankind has entered an era where it is ready for achievements never before realized in the annals of religious history, including world unity. All the laws and practices, necessitated to achieve the beautiful potential of humanity, are revealed in the Baha’i writings.

[@briandiehl9257]

It does not fulfill any of the promises of christianity

[@mikechamp78]

I'm posting a playlist for any Christian who would like to understand a biblically learned Baha'i perspective on Christian topics. As a Baha'i I found a deep and powerful love for Jesus and the Bible through the Baha'i teachings. The Bible is a powerful book of God. kzbin.info/aero/PLJhATGTfUuqwPLfHRvJOTGGz-JvtZyebV&si=G111UwlGR0j5cE9d

[@ds.captured]

@@briandiehl9257 the same way Jesus did not fulfil the promises of the Torah according to the interpretation of the Jews. The Baha’i Faith indeed fulfills all the promises of the Bible but not in the way that Christian’s expected it.

[@briandiehl9257]

@ Do you know what Jesus tells us to expect for the second coming of Christ? Do you know what prophecies you are claiming he fulfilled?

[@ds.captured]

@@briandiehl9257 Yes I do actually. I will quote just 3 of them here, I encourage you to look at the chapters in the Bible that I mention to verify these claims: 1st promise: Mathew 24 When shall these things be? When will you return? When will the world end? When the gospel of the kingdom is preached in all the world. Most Christian scholars agree that this was fulfilled in the 1840’s. 2nd promise: Luke 21 When shall these things be? When will you return? Jerusalem shall be trodden down on the gentiles. They will be led away and held captive in other nations. Until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled. The Roman Titus in AD 70 forces Jews to be exiled and scattered. Strict exclusion on the Jews in their home land lasted for many years especially when muslims came into the picture. It wasn’t until the edict of toleration under the leadership of the Ottoman Empire was signed in 1844 till the Jews were allowed to visit their holy land this fulfilling this promise. Third promise: Mathew 24:15 Abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel, this one merits its own in depth exploration and I’m happy to go in depth with you if you want. All of the promises above were fulfilled at the time that the Bab (forerunner of the Baha’i Faith) publicly declared his mission to the world, may 23 1844.

[@khlkhjhlk]

Bahai's actually share a lot with Christianity as far as morals. At first glance they look like "woke" social justice people, but they believe in monogamous marriage between a man and woman (no same sex marriage), they don't believe in premarital sex, they have fairly traditional gender roles (the fine print says men and women are "equal" but that does not mean there aren't differences in what's expected of them), lots of liberal types join for the initial sales pitch then leave after they find out they are actually expected to live fairly traditional lives.

[@yodizzll]

Absolutely correct

[@TommyElijahCabelloReal]

Yes, but yet another difference about Baha'is is that they are far less forceful if at all compared to Christianity.

[@gd3air2]

This is me, I left after seeing it's basically another reinterpretation of Judeo-Christian laws

[@RAAM855]

Liberals are trend chasers. Fickled.

[@yodizzll]

@@gd3air2 you know that two religions can share commonalities without one being a "re-interpretation" of the other right?

[@sabrinalaumer2317]

Thank you for the thorough and respectful presentation, very well done. I read the book Steve Matthews recommended (by William McElwee Miller called The Baha'i Faith: Its History and Teachings). Excellent and fascinating history! The book is dedicated to those who practice independent search for truth.

[@heystevematthews]

@@sabrinalaumer2317 I am glad that you had a chance to read it. Dr. Miller who lived in Iran for years does an amazing job at exposing the false narrative given by Baha’u’llah about how he came to be the leader following the Babi movement. I wish many Baha’is would read this great book in their own independent investigations into truth to realize that Baha’u’llah is not to be trusted and that the entire foundation of their movement is false. Jesus Christ was not just another Manifestation among many, and one lesser than the greatest manifestation. He alone paid for the sins of humanity and is uniquely the Savior of mankind.

[@Kelly-z3o]

I am a bahai We are NOT a cult

[@khanferoz8423]

It's a fabricated religion that derived from bad followers of Islam

[@cath.lamontagne5357]

Untrue- Bahai is a religion not a cult. There are millions of followers of Baha'ullah. I was lost, and thanks to His teachings I was able to recognize the truth of the new and old testament. For Bahais there are not just nine messengers-never heard that- God 's messengers are infinite in the past and infinite in the future. He is the Omnipotent, Omniscient, All-Powerful God. Like Jesus, Baha'ullah does not speak of His own will, but of that of The Father. Jesus does not claim to be God, but to do "The Will of God" ; however, he also says (see John 8-58) " before Abraham was I am" . This is shows the dual reality of The messengers of God. For further proof of this you may wish to study "The Tablet of Carmel" wherein Baha'ullah links his message to prophecies in the Holy Bible.

[@heystevematthews]

@@cath.lamontagne5357 Jesus clearly claimed to be God. Baha’is not only typically have a very shallow understanding of the Bible, but like to tell Christians how they need to interpret their Bible. When Baha’u’llah says things that the Christian considers blasphemous - for example, that it was he that spoke to Moses in the burning bush - Christians are somehow not to challenge these claims and not be upset by the twisting of the Bible that is done to try to make it fit the Baha’i message. This is such a double-standard. If someone tried to twist the meaning of a passage in Baha’i literature Baha’is would severely condemn them!

[@EricSartori]

This was awesome. I've been examining the Baha'i Faith for about 3 months now and am looking for strong refutations as I independently investigate the potential truth of the claims of the faith. Two things I noticed: 1. I'm not sure what definition of "cult" you two are working with but it seems like it's something like, "anything that's not a particular version of Christianity." 2. While it looks like you've done your homework and have most of your facts straight, I'd characterize many of your arguments as straw man, although I don't think you're doing so maliciously. It might be a good idea to have a learned Baha'i on your podcast to better explain the nuances to the doctrines of progressive revelation, the oneness of religion and the nature and purpose of Christ and his crucifixion. I'm looking forward to Part 2. I'm in Phoenix by the way so I can connect you with people who are well educated on the Baha'i writings. Cheers! ✌️

[@atafarhadi4003]

As a Bahai I was very impressed by the respectful nature of this discussion by two people who seemingly disagree with the Bahai’s. Amazed, even. Great interview. Also as a Bahai, I’d be delighted to address some of the misperceptions (admittedly VERY few!) about the Faith evident in the conversation. Good on you both for such a thorough study.

[@Yesica1993]

Did its founder die for sins and rise from the dead? No? Then you have your answer.

[@EricSartori]

@@Yesica1993 So by your definition, is Judaism a cult?

[@NaserEmtesali]

@@EricSartori Here are some of the cult-like tendencies in the Baha'i Faith that are not found in other major religions: 1. Each Baha'i has a 'membership card' with a membership number. 2. Strict censorship and approval process for new books. 3. Punishments against individuals for perceived infractions include deprivation of voting rights and potential ostracism and shunning. 4. Ban on Baha'i Studies courses to prevent hierarchy formation perceived as a threat to the administrative structure. 5. Suppression of Baha'i academics who don't follow the party line and agenda. 6. Misuse of the notion of "unity" to silence and penalise divergent views. 7. Discouragement from reporting misconduct of individual members in the interests of "unity" and public image. 8. Selective translation of literature to control information and maintain a marketable narrative despite internal contradictions. 9. Revisionist edits in new editions of books (e.g. removal of failed prophecies and intolerant language). 10. Frequent fundraising for projects to enhance global image.

[@QueenTiye54]

1. Not every Bahá'í has a membership card. The original purpose of the card was to establish non-combatant status in the military. Now, I am grateful I have it in case I die away from home. 5. I'm unaware of a ban on Bahá'í studies courses. I am aware of at least one theological seminary that has a a couple of courses specifically about the Bahá'í Faith. But I would be interested in a reference to this ban as you mentioned. 6. I imagine I know the circumstances you reference. And suffice to say that their academic efforts were not suppressed (nor could they be). The unique nature of the Bahá'í Covenant doesn't allow for multiple centers of authority. But no one goes to "hell" for not being a Bahá'í. 😅 7. Reporting to whom? If such things happened, I imagine that it happens less now that our understanding of certain harms have evolved 9. For instance? 10. Entirely subjective pov. You say it's to enhance image. I say I wish my community qualified for one of these "projects" but only communities that have laid the foundation of unity at the grassroots, including making friends with the followers of all religions in their area, can get one of those "projects" and that's if the resources are available - no outside contributions are accepted. 2. I think it's fair to raise an eyebrow around this. I understand it, but I get those who don't. 3. Not much of that. And the "perceived" infractions are known, not arbitrary.

[@supernalbjj]

very shocking at the end to see Christians saying that loving all humanity and all humans is not a good thing. do these men not love all humanity? what Jesus do they follow? does god not so love the world?

[@TommyElijahCabelloReal]

That's the main reason I left Christianity. Christians or those who claim the label are nowadays awful people on average.

[@gaiusSatyr]

🤣

[@divinebahaiknowledge]

Jesus taught to love thy father or mother is not to love the Father. The hidden meaning is, when you follow men who are fallible, you don’t get anywhere. To set one’s sights on Jesus was the key to spiritual growth and a relationship with God, the Father. Same as Bahai, by praying and meditating, we can grow the capacity to bring about Baha’u’llah’s New World Order on Earth. Or in Christian terms, the New Earth. It’s spiritual my dear brothers and sisters. For dogma and superstition have zero place in the hidden meanings of divine teachings. Thats also why science and nature’s laws must be in harmony with religion for humans to truly unite and progress. ❤

[@tylerwinter512]

I have a feeling that what you mean when you say love is a different thing than what we mean when we say love.

[@supernalbjj]

@@tylerwinter512 did jesus ask the father to forgive those who killed him for they know not what they do? Love all people, but know the difference between virtues morality and sin. if you used reason and judged fairly looking at the scripture of the bahai faith, you would see they uphold the same standards as the 10 commandments and others such as no effeminates or drunkard etc will enter the kingdom. your feelings are irrelevant. your heart is evil. the truth is all that matters. personal forgiveness and state enforced justice against those who are to evil are the reality of what the bahai faith teaches. telling me about your feelings is effeminate. try being logical and honest

[@Robangledorf]

As a devout and card carrying Baha’i, I appreciate how you approached this from a well researched and mostly respectful approach. Not everything was 100% accurate, but you were far closer than most people who aren’t Baha’i ever get to a logical understanding of the Baha’i position. I can tell you are very dedicated to God and appreciate that in you deeply.

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

I'm glad that you liked it. I'm Trevor and I know Steve personally. I was wondering; what exactly was not accurate in this video? I have a handful of Baha'i friends and as a Christian I never want to misrepresent anybody's beliefs. I am going to actually fly in a little over a week to visit two Baha'i friends in different states and stay with them. They know full well I don't believe their faith to be true and we still are friends and discuss why we believe what we believe. We can still be friends and disagree.

[@Robangledorf]

@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 Nice to digitally meet you Trevor! Most inaccuracies were small, but a couple were large and meaningful: 1.Baha’is do not believe in imposing a theocratic government. While Baha’i’s do believe that God is the ultimate authority in a cosmic sense, conforming to that message in this life is entirely voluntary. And while we do believe that national governments will unite together to form global agreement structures, those structures must be democratic, egalitarian, and multilateral. Truly the exact opposite of a theocratic centralized government. 2. The word Shia doesn’t come from the word “separatist”. It’s actually a contraction of “Shariat Ali” meaning “followers of Ali”. This is a massive distinction because Ali himself was completely dedicated to unity and passionately taught against any form of separation within the community or between communities. The history of the schism is far too complex to be encapsulated in the comment section, but when Ali’s rightful position was usurped he actually bent the knee for the sake of preserving unity. Truly about as opposite as could be from a separatist position. While there are other examples, this is generally well researched and I appreciate any efforts to create a more god centered humanity, even if we come to meaningfully different conclusions

[@seonf4370]

@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358I truly hope he replied I’m curious too

[@jccklh]

⁠@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358Another Baha’i here. Greetings! I am noting near timestamp 45:00 a discussion of what Abdu’l-Baha’i said about the purpose or effect of Christ’s ministry, that He taught 11 disciples (and one who betrayed him) plus some women, and obviously Christians object to that description, because it misses the whole purpose which was to give his life to redeem humanity. Fair enough, but what’s being missed is that Abdu’l-Baha was demonstrating that “in the eyes of the world” Christ had little effect during his ministry, but that through the power of The Holy Spirit, the few followers were able to raise up churches and spread his faith around the world. For centuries Christianity was considered a cult, so I don’t worry if Christians want to call the Baha’i Faith a cult, that is just history repeating itself. Anyway, the other important fact that may be missed in the discussion is that in other contexts, the Baha’i scriptures do stress the sacrifice of Christ and its role in the redemption of the world, but also to see it with fresh eyes, and consider why God would need a sacrifice? For example.

[@ramonbalundo2093]

I'm proud to be a Baha'i 💞

[@NaserEmtesali]

Shua Ullah, the eldest grandson of Baha'u'llah said: _"I personally hesitate to commit myself [to the Baha'i faith] with the existing conditions amongst us, as today we observe only the differences of ideas, lack of cooperation, discord, enmity, selfishness, and hatred-while we should believe that smiles are better than frowns, kindness better than coldness, commendation better than criticism, sympathy better than deception, love better than hate, friendship better than enmity, unity better than discord, and peace better than chaos."_ (A Lost History of the Baha'i Faith, by Eric Stetson) The hate against different opinions is impregnated in the roots of the Bahá’í Faith. This just came up very early after The Bab's death when followers of Bahá'u'lláh and Subh-i-Azal started to kill each other.

[@Robespierre-lI]

I hate that there's so much evangelizing online when I simply search for a neutral academic Informational video about B'hai.

[@NaserEmtesali]

@@Robespierre-lI if you really want "neutral academic Information" on the Baha'i faith then read some of the books and articles by Prof. Denis MacEoin.

[@christo-chaney]

@@Robespierre-lIsame!

[@christo-chaney]

I’ve been to the Baha’i Gardens in Haifa back in 2022. Your religion is Not a cult.

[@QueenTiye54]

No, Bahá'í Faith isn't syncretistic at all. The Bahá'í Faith is an independent religion. But it is entirely true that you can be a Christian and be part of the processes of Bahá'í work towards the unification of all humanity (or at least the humans in your neighborhood.) Signing the card means you accept Bahá'ú'lláh for Who He Is. If you don't then you're not a Bahá'í. But hopefully, you're still a friend. 😊

[@Clandestinemonkey]

Nobody needs to sign a card to be a Bahá'í

[@lokith1562]

I've never tried to convert anyone, not my cup of tea. I've instead, after discussing the faith and usually multiple other religions, my two cents to anyone, whether you're a Bahai or not, is pursue whatever beliefs or religion that allows you to be the best you you can be. Of course that's meant in the realm of intending them to be very much Christ-like, because love is the rule. You don't wanna be this or that, no one is telling you you should, just try to be a decent human being. The rest will take care of itself.

[@kuze2474]

I’m a Bahai . We are not a cult. We accept all prophets of God from Moses ,Adam,Jesus ,Muhammad , the bab and baha’u’llah.

[@arielbemeliahu8619]

You accept the bahai version of them. Not the christian jesus, not the muslim muhammed. Thats like saying i accept stalin as a bald clean shaven man who was very sweet and didnt kill anyone

[@kaboomblueskies]

Do you have any opinion on the Bahai Faith being silent on the genocide in Gaza and the ongoing murders of Palestinians in the West Bank.. I know that there is a compound in Haifa where there are world famous gardens and a building called the Universal House of Justice. However, the Bahai remain silent on the genocide being carried out by their landlord. It is also inconceivable that Shogi Effendi, the Guardian of the faith, did not know that the land he purchased in 1950 in Haifa after the massacres on 21 and 22 April 1948, belonged to some of the 65,000 Palestinians who fled the city in fear for their lives from the Zionist terrorists the Irgun, Stern Gang and Hagenah. Silence is violence.

[@wingedinfinity777]

​@@kaboomblueskiesI think Bahais look at the entire earth as humanity's land, not any certain faction or group. They do not believe in Nationalism. They believe in no wars, therefore no one fights over land/property. I would be interested to see what they would do if someone claimed that land back that they built that on.

[@wingedinfinity777]

@kuze2474 Believing there should be compulsory education worldwide to indoctrinate people into one belief system IS cultish. The part that would be COMPULSORY (meaning obligatory) is what makes it cultish.

[@kaboomblueskies]

@@wingedinfinity777 My feeling is the Bahais would give up and leave Israel. The fact they do not comment on the genocide is indicative of their cowardice. I do not expect religious bureaucracies to contest and call out evil. The Catholic chiurch for instance was involved in aiding the escape of Nazis to South America after WW2. The Bahai silence is condoning the crime of genocide. The Israelis will leave them alone because it would be very bad press and optics for them if they took over the Bahai gardens and the "Universal House of Justice just now. The irony!!! It could happen in ten years when the furore dies about the Gaza holocaust. If you see young Israelis spitting at Christians in Jerusalem or in Bethlehem, you know that this militancy will rear its ugly head when these guys grow up.

[@aaronferguson8161]

"Thou wilt be blamed for My sake; people will attribute to thee infidelity for My sake; thou wilt bear trouble for My sake. Be encouraged, and do not fear. It happened like this also in the time of Jesus Christ." Bahá’í Scriptures, p. 501

[@gaiusSatyr]

🤣

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

What does Baha'u'llah mean by that?

[@lokith1562]

@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 That like the earliest Christians, and then later in differing locales, that Bahais will catch grief from others for their beliefs, that they will be called infidels by other various religions as was pretty much the case here, no? So... self-evident.

[@bl1ndguy0]

I think examining religions with the perspective that "is this a cult, lets find out" or "why is this a cult?" is not true independent investigation of truth (which is a Baha'i teaching). We have to first clear ourselves with any prejudices, superstitions, and "veils" that block us for investigating the truth. I've only watched 7 min in, and just one note: 1. the Sign card has nothing about being a Baha'i, you are a Baha'i if you believe that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this day and age. That is all. The card is just for your NSA (National Spiritual Assembly) so you can do elections in your community for example. But thank you for making this video. At the end of the day, there is no physical proof, it's Faith.

[@TheCultishShow]

Hope you all enjoy our first episode of 2024!!

[@Yesica1993]

Looking forward to it. I never hear anything about this religion!

[@wallywest001]

Can You Guys and Pastor Jeff Durbin do a episode or 2 on the Restoration Movement and the Fill in the blank "Christian Churches " that spawned out of The Stone Campbell Movement given that Restoration Movement's are impossible Since Jesus Never Lost His True Church of His Sheep/Elect across all denominations and even in Roman Catholicism and The Elect who are also waiting to hear the Gospel in Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists and Others.

[@shadypugsley5136]

My main criticism is that “it’s all about oneness and acceptance and equality” but you can’t be gay and women can’t join their house of Justice. That’s what keeps me and most ppl from joining

[@waynerollack1026]

Why not interview a knowledgeable Baha’i to learn about the Baha’i Faith? Also if it’s members are found in every corner of the planet does that not fit the definition of a “world religion”?

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

Before I respond; are you a member of the Baha'i Faith? I am a Christian.

[@christianexbahai]

"A knowledgeable Baha'i" is a brainwashed Baha'i. It is hard to get free of the programming enough to think and respond objectively. Baha'is do mental gymnastics to always answer every question in a way to try to make the Baha'i Faith look good. And as for Baha'i being a world religion - it is clear that the "Divine Plan" of 'Abdu'l-Baha, and plans of Shoghi Effendi and the UHJ are all aimed at having Baha'is spread out. Many "communities where Baha'is live" consist of only a few people, not even enough for a Local Spiritual Assembly (nine people). In other words, the spread of the Baha'i Faith is done artificially by encouraging members to move to areas where there are few Baha'is. So is this truly a wide-spread religion, or is it using artificial methods to appear to be huge when it really isn't.

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

Hi there. I'm just seeing you got my last message.

[@NaserEmtesali]

For a seemingly liberal faith, Baha'ism has a disappointing record with regard to censorship issues. Babism, out of which the movement emerged, made the burning of books not strictly treating of the faith a religious obligation. Baha' Allah, in reversing many Babi ordinances (like holy war) indicated that book-burning was to be considered a grave sin. Nonetheless, Baha'is have indulged in the burning of disapproved texts on more than one occasion. A Persian text edited by Professor E. G. Browne, the Nuqtat al-kaf, was considered (falsely) by Baha'is to have been influenced by a heretical group; it was widely shunned, and in Iran large numbers were burned. Many European and western libraries have stocked publications by excommunicated Baha'i organizations. These have frequently been borrowed and burned by Baha'is, to whom such works are the purest poison. Baha'is are generally forbidden to own or read the works of excommunicates (Covenant-Breakers), although in recent years it has been argued that Baha'i scholars may do so for the purposes of research, provided permission is obtained from the supreme religious authority. DENIS MACEOIN (Censorship: A World Encyclopedia edited by Derek Jones)

[@lokith1562]

@@NaserEmtesali Hm I haven't come across any book burning in the Dawnbreakers and the Bab has already been Martyred. And unfortunately in the previews I could find online it didn't mention what you've said here. So I can't speak to it. I've never come across that. In Iran I think I can understand to an extent. Bahais there are imprisoned for years and such for nothing, so if you came across a book by a covenant breaker that essentially twists things to make Bahais look worse or otherwise reinforce erroneous reasons why they should be imprisoned and tortured, well... you're trying to protect your family and that of other Bahais. But even then, I'm pretty sure you can't please all the people all of the time. So sorry to disappoint you about your preconceived notions about what the Bahais should be all about, but you know, put up or shut up. I look forward to you showing us all how it should be done sir.

[@ogmakefirefiregood]

In a sane world, this show should have 100 million views.

[@brianccase4925]

agreed☮❤🥰💑🤔🤭🙂😇

[@CuriousPsych]

Thank you for this video! Having read the dawnbreakers it’s hard to keep all the names straight and the lineage. The recap was helpful :) a thought I’ve been having recently is at what point did the main religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) turn from a cult to an accepted religion? Was it 200 yrs after? Or was it after something specific happened? This might be controversial, but I feel this is a space where I can get some good feedback from people. I wonder if John the Baptist was received the same way as The Bab was - with lots of hesitation, skepticism, fear, etc. how many years after then was it that the majority of people accepted John the Baptist as Christ’s forerunner? What do people think?

[@nonnymoose6260]

I think the only evidence we have comes form the Bible itself. John was only slightly older than Jesus, they were basically the same age. He was killed just a few years before Jesus, so if we estimate that John the Baptist was killed when he and Jesus were about 30, then we could estimate that he wouldn't have had more than 10 or 15 years of ministry, and possibly far fewer. The Bible indicates that John was sought out for baptism from Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan by diverse groups of Jews, even including Pharisees and Sadducees. When Jesus asks the chief priests of the temple and the elders whether they believed the baptism of John was from heaven or of men, they were afraid to say of men because they feared the multitude, "for all count John as a prophet". The evidence, imho, points towards the majority believing in John's ministry from early on.

[@CuriousPsych]

@@nonnymoose6260 Thanks for that insight! It's honestly astonishing. I wonder what kind of person John the Baptist was. he must've had an aura unlike anybody else! Yet despite so many Pharisees and Sadducees that came to John, there was still a lot of backlash from the people until around 200 to 300 years after Christ's death that I read people began to join the Christian faith by the masses. So between the years of 0 and 200ish A.D. I wonder if the Christian faith was also considered cultish. The same thing happened in Islam. According to tradition, when Muhammad (pbuh) changed direction of prayer from facing Jerusalem to the new direction towards the Kaaba in Mecca, many of his followers immediately left his side. So Islam was faced with lots of skepticism at the beginning too. And I see the same trend happening again with the Baha'i faith that we as a people are worried if this is another group trying to be deceiving and manipulative like a cult, or if it's truly a divinely inspired religion and Baha'u'llah is a divine teacher just like Jesus Christ. Just a thought experiment I'm having that maybe all major religions weren't immediately accepted.

[@nonnymoose6260]

​@@CuriousPsych Early skepticism followed by growth/expansion is not an effective measure of a cult. That says nothing about the movement itself. (And in the case of Christianity, it wasn't skepticism, it was strong persecution that was happening - the faith itself was spreading among Jews, causing a fierce backlash precisely because of that spread, it was not just "skepticism" - and it wasn't about something as simple as changing direction for prayer - it was concerning something momentous, the coming of the Messiah and the Kingdom of God. Nice try.) A good way to evaluate whether a group is a cult is to examine it within the BITE model of authoritarian control. Interesting that you call all of this a thought experiment - because, no offense, but your comments sound a lot like the kinds of carefully crafted and disingenuous questions that come from Baha's in an attempt to get people around to their own talking points in a non-threatening way. If you truly are more interested in John the Baptist - instead of just saying, "oh wow, he must have had an aura!" before quickly moving on, you really should read the Bible for yourself - actually do a sincere deep dive so that you can truly learn. Best wishes on your journey to understanding Christianity on its own terms. Peace.

[@CuriousPsych]

⁠@@nonnymoose6260I’m always in the process of reading the Bible and will never be done reading it. Lots of subtly but nonetheless a great book that bahais are asked to study. The heavy persecution? well that’s similar to the Baha’i faith again. And Islam, and Judaism. The Bab was killed by a firing squad by islamic officials who didn’t like the spread of Bahaism. Starting to sound a lot like what Christ and Moses went up against. Each religion has their time of heavy persecution. And the BITE model… Let’s put Christianity up to the test because you have admit that back in the day the officials of the church were far from pure. There was hella control by authoritarian power and the words were manipulated by to retain power and control over others. Read stamped from the beginning for just a few examples of how people used the Bible to push slavery. Or let’s just look at how the church persecuted Galileo for saying the sun is the center of the universe. Let's also not forget about the Spanish inquisition and all the countries and cultures that were affected. It's starting to look a lot like a cult now to me. What other religions then are cults? Because every single religion has a cult-like history according to those standards. Manipulation for the sake of control and power.

[@trevorwolfe9110]

I(Trevor) have done a lot of workon this faith and hope you look at some of the interviews I have done or check out Haven Ministries.

[@natewolfe2345]

❤

[@MrDaveKC]

Trevor's work is definitely worth checking out, and his work and study of the Baha'i faith.

[@jkash6189]

He is a great resource

[@Javed57]

I've seen your video. Everyone should check it out.

[@shaneroe4503]

I know Trevor personally and the hard work he's put into this.

[@ds.captured]

The Jews denied their own Messiah and continue to reject Him to this day. I can’t help but feel that you are now repeating the same mistake by rejecting Baha’u’llah.

[@gaiusSatyr]

🤣

[@tylerwinter512]

If what the Baha’is believe the way to God contradicts that of Yeshua than yes we will reject him. At that point it’s just a matter of logic, not really theology.

[@lokith1562]

Each religion has within it the seeds of its own demise, and this doesn't mean it's dead dead, but that the invigorating spirit behind it is less vibrant than it once was. For Judaism, they have left the Eastern Gate of Jerusalem sealed, excepting for a small doorway setup that allows Muslims and other pilgrims through. According to prophecy, their Messiah is intended to come through that very gate, so why then leave it sealed? The hiccup for Christians is, everyone must accept Christ as God and that the only way to enter Heaven is by becoming a Christian, or at the very least, testifying to who and what Christ is to them. They expect the return of Christ to literally be Christ looking how they expect him to, in a way that everyone can see, and as a Christian. As if at any point in history a religion has returned as itself, two thousand years or more later and call itself the same thing. And Christ did say there was no way to the Father except through him, but that doesn't mean become an adherent of my religion (that doesn't exist at that point) and testify to my station as God, or you are to burn in Hell. That's more an anti-Christ message than in tune with it. For Muslims it is that despite their waiting on the Second Coming as well, Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets, which means there can be no others, because he was the last of the prophets. How then does God keep the covenant with mankind if no more messengers will come, ever...? Baha'i's have theirs too, though most won't be aware of it, and by the time another religion rolls around they'll be just as intractable and hypocritical as the others. Every newer religion of which all of these are, compared to previous ones, borrowed metaphor, ritual, etc. from religions that predated them, yet to hear this podcast that has never been the case, since they're so quick to cast aspersions. But then, this is just proof that the spirit has left these men if not Christianity as a whole. Instead of celebration that there is yet another pathway to God, they vacillate back and forth between how the Baha'i Faith is very tiny and it's just a happy feel good religion yet it wants to create some militant world governing force, so make up your mind, inconsequential nothing or frightening threat? How little faith you have in Christ and God. I will pray for you.

[@examiningthescj8176]

Hello, so I came out from a different group named "Shincheonji", or "New Heaven and New Earth", and I would also make the same argument to show that my group had some credibility to the claims of our leader also being the "Advocate" who speaks on behalf of God and Jesus. We would also quote verses like Acts 5:38-39, and we even have a global peace front group called HWPL, and we are also growing globally. How would you normally reconcile this?

[@ds.captured]

@@examiningthescj8176 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits” It’s up to every individual to examine these claims by their fruits. You are the ultimate judge, examine the life and writings of Baha’u’llah and make an honest judgement.

[@QueenTiye54]

Universal House of Justice is super challenging. There is no official explanation other than Bahá'ú'lláh said so. And yet on every level, women are prevalent, including electing the Universal House of Justice.

[@lokith1562]

I believe this will be the hiccup for our faith in the future. Personally, I think the next manifestation will be a woman, and the fact they weren't allowed on the Universal House of Justice will be the Bahai stumbling block they can't get over. Like I said, the seeds of each faith run their course, the trees are still alive, but the most recent tree is intended for now. Obviously. But never forever... in this sense, and yet, also still enough if you adhere to it. The golden rule alone would be enough if people could adhere to it.

[@dadlymenzi4993]

Listening to this conversation i feel sad for Evangelicals. It shows that the speakers are stuck in Martin's narrow 1950's approach to scripture. The counter cult theological construct is not without its own difficulties. It adopts a confrontational stance related to certain religious movements or other religions, which leads largely to an argumentative rhetoric, not only in how the groups are described but how Evangelicals are taught to engage with their members. In addition, counter cult construct draws upon the wrong Biblical texts and context for interreligious encounters. It seems the speaker has no primary source knowledge about the Baha'i faith. Martin's book is already refuted by Evangelicals outside the US. In the book, Religions of Fear, Bivins describe Evangelicalism as combative and "preoccupied with boundaries". Evangelicals need to consider how various social, cultural and political processes past and present may have influenced their interpretation of Scripture and their theologies, methodologies towards other religions. The Baha'i faith has no characteristics of a cult. It is an independent religion with members between 7 to 9 million. You are right in one thing: it is the fastest growing religion not a cult after Christianity. The Parable of a Good Samaritan is the call to love your neighbors as yourself. Christianity especially Evangelicals today are lacking what Richard Mouw, referred to as "convicted civility" towards members of other faiths. In today's society there is a dire need for approaches that seek to find common ground. In page 99 of the Martin's book he acknowledged this, yet as Philip Johnson noted that ,Martin, and the counter cult movement who follow him never went further with this line of thinking in pursuing possibilities provided by Biblical texts such as Paul's Areopagos address (Acts 17). He acknowledged one small facet of looking for common grounds but went no further nor integrate that into his understanding of other belief systems. The speaker mentions renegades as evidence. Testimonies of those who left the religion are not reliable sources for the truth of a religion or religious movement. While religious beliefs and dictrines do play a role in decisions to religious affiliation, conversion is seldom about seeking or embracing an ideology. Rodney Stack and Roger Finke, in Acts of Faith, noted that "one's beliefs do matter but in a more subtle fashion than has been assumed by those who attribute religious choices to doctrinal appeal. Stark make the same observation about the relationship between doctrines and religious choice in his study of Mormonism. Even though "when people retrospectively describe their conversions they tend to stress theology" Sociologists indicate that it is new Social networks and interpersonal attachments that are the most significant factors in religious choice and affiliation. Last word on this, John Saliba, noted that the counter cult approach "is neither an appropriate Christian response nor a productive social and religious reaction to the rising pluralism" of our time. Critical self reflection of all Christian branches on their theology, methodology will be a difficult task indeed for people so used in "copy and paste" but in keeping with the Reformation principle of semper reformanda or "reformed and always reforming" Love and respect your neighbors please!

[@wingedinfinity777]

Your statement saying testimonies of people who left religions are not reliable is a load of crap !

[@dadlymenzi4993]

@@wingedinfinity777 You provide no reasons nor evidence for your dismissal of my statement about ex- members of a church or a religion. Someone who denies what he formerly professed, a renegate, cannot be placed in the role of chief witness against the Cause on which he had turned his back. After all, the Church had ample experience with renegades in the course of the centuries. Renegades as a rule are strongly influenced by the conflict in which they find themselves. The worst antagonists and the sharpest critics of the Church are theologians who have broken away from Church. It is all the same across the board!

[@deanlange7862]

I'm a former Baha'i and I'm happy to see people discussing the Baha'i Faith as a cult. I have to say though that I'm pretty disappointed that all the time was spent on the history and beliefs of Baha'i. A cult is a cult because of the actions of the leadership and the way they treat parishioners, but these things were not mentioned in the podcast. If you'd like to hear the perspective of a former Baha'i, feel free to reach out to me. I have a lot to say about the way the Faith misrepresents itself to seekers (sometimes outright lying), the culture of control around endlessly teaching the Faith to others, and the response to any dissent or criticism made toward the Universal House of Justice

[@christianexbahai]

I'd say Baha'i is a cult because Baha'u'llah was a misguided cult leader who managed to convince a lot of other people that he was something special. He must have had a charismatic personality, but his passport photo makes him look ominous and angry. If I had seen that when I was a Baha'i I would have wondered why I was in his religion. I see no love flowing from those eyes. No wonder they kept it inaccessible, available only for a brief viewing to those who managed to go to Haifa on pilgrimage. By the way - the archive building in Haifa is an exact replica of a Greek pagan temple (the Parthenon) and that's where Baha'is were allowed to view a photograph of Baha'u'llah. (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

[@Yesica1993]

It's a Part 1, and it's important to know the foundation/history of a religion, first.

[@truthseeker1532]

Part 2 just came out

[@cultmecca]

@@christianexbahai what you just said is something that can be said of any and all religious founders/prophets. Charismatic misguided cult leaders who convinced a lot of people that they were something special. If you disagree it’s because you have a pet religion that you are biased toward. It’s also interesting that you discount the man and his teachings based on his photograph?! He’s not photogenic enough so his teachings are…what…wrong? I’m not defending Bahaullah or his teachings. I’ve never read them. Nor am I Bahai, I’m an atheist. But discounting what someone has to said because you don’t like their passport picture is absolutely comical. I sincerely hope no one in the future ever judges the merit of what you have to say based on how good your driver’s license picture is friend 😂

[@Peter_McKenna587]

Sounds like the U.S. government during the pandemic 😂

[@aaronlee75]

A primer on Baha'i apologetics pt 3... my personal perspective. A few final thoughts... Baha'is become Baha'is because of feelings. They stay Baha'is because of the rational framework found there. Baha'is will tend to defer to rational arguments and science more than to traditions. Not exclusively, mind you, but the oneness of science and religion is a primary doctrine.... similar in many ways to certain forms of "Intelligent Design Theory". Baha'is tend to be very outcome driven, rather than process driven. So called sciences that "begin and words and end in words" are to be avoided. Endless debates are seen as fruitless, and therefore useless. There's a lot of emphasis on coalition building, with human rights organizations for example, and being very aware of the needs of the age. Trying to actively make a difference in the lives of the world. As there are no clergy in the Baha'i faith no one individual is in charge or has an "official say". Decisions are made by majority consensus on 9 member panels. The Universal House of Justice is the only body that has final say on doctrine... but only on doctrine that isn't covered already by the scriptures of Baha'u'llah, Abdul'baha, or the Bab. The (then) future UHJ was to be given authority by Baha'u'llah to legislate on the needs of the times, and be able to change their own laws as needed. There being a difference between revelation (which can only be superseded by another manifestation) and inspired guidance, which is what the UHJ is believed to have. No individual members have any independent authority. Decisions have to be made via consensus. Just a few insights. Have fun.

[@elliefurughi1489]

Here is what Baha'isbelieve regarding the different religions of God: "Know thou that in every age and dispensation, all the divine laws and ordinances are changed and altered according to the requirements of the times, except the law of love which, like a stream, floweth continually, and whose course never suffereth alteration or change." -Bahá’u’lláh Hide note Note:

[@MeNotYou72]

17:41 at our meeting place people bring whatever doctrine they want, or none at all, to speak from? We’re not their to interpret anything we’re usually there once a month to discuss and just regain focus from the constant distractions and demands of the way of life around us.

[@DivineFellowship]

I was an active Baha'i for 13 years. Simply read their "Most Holy Book" (Kitab-i-Aqdas), preferably the Elder-Miller translation for its accuracy. You'll see there is little connection between the actual foundational religion and the "package" that Baha'is now proffer to the public, intended to appeal to social progressives.

[@anthonys5153]

The Baha’i faith has been hijacked by radical leftists, it’s why I’ve become disillusioned with the faith, as it has become more of a religion of man like all manifestations have their religious hijacked by man.

[@zachlightcap2179]

.. 12 principles are like the 🗝️ 's to establishing the faith - I am not a card-carrying Ba🤣'i anymore after discovering this, and the living guardian - Dr.Neal Chase - however obscure - its eventual victory is quite simple - 🌴🕊️🌴

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

Isn't it interesting that a critic of the Baha'i Faith translates it nearly 30 years before the Baha'i Faith does? By the fact that Shoghi Effendi never translated it says a lot as Baha'is love to boast that he was the greatest translator. Let's also not forget that the Persian Bayan which is the most important book written by the Bab is still not translated. The Baha'i Faith is caught between a rock and a hard place with what they refuse to translate. If they don't translate it shows that the Baha'i Faith is suppressing their material or if they translate their material it will be embarrassing and damaging as people will actually see what their leaders have taught and leave the Baha'i Faith. If the Baha'i Faith is really for the independent investigation of truth the Universal House of Justice will be honest and admit that Baha'u'llah was never of God and actually translate the material for everybody to see.

[@anthonys5153]

@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 man corrupts religion, same argument has been made against Christianity suppressing early scriptures and gospels for allegedly being heretical… to the point where people were executed, exiled and books destroyed… it wasn’t until the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library in the 20th century which finally revealed these suppressed holy texts… which modern mainstream Christianity instantly rejected without any independent investigation of truth. I believe everything should be available and translated, and if Baha’is today including Shoghi Effendi refused to translate then they are wrong, just as Christianity suppressed and destroyed early Christian texts.

[@DivineFellowship]

@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 Good points, all. Baha'is like to say that the Elder-Miller translation is tainted because William Miller was a Christian who was, indeed, a critic of the Baha'i Faith. However, all Miller did was put up the money for the book. The actual translator, Earl Elder, was a detached scholar of Arabic and had no animus toward the Baha'i Faith. This is further confirmed by the fact Elder was the copyright owner. Yes, the Baha'is themselves extirpated the Bayan. Probably because it made Baha'u'llah's claims look false, and/or because it's simply so bizarre. It makes The Bab seem to be a lunatic. Baha'is brag that they have "the original texts." But there is not much use in that if you literally suppress your own texts, then mess with them hard when it comes to translating. (The Elder-Miller translation has Baha'u'llah clearly allowing polygamy. The spin-doctored "official" translation uses subtle means to make it sound like polygamy is not allowed. Clever word tricks. Not much point to having "the original text."

[@stevehaas9515]

Sounds like a wonderful religion.

[@wingedinfinity777]

As I am studying a little on Bahai Faith due to always seeking seeing a bigger picture, I find pretty much everything you analyzed correct when comparing it to Chrisitanity. Thank you for this ‼️💥💕

[@jrhemmerich]

I had a friend who was baha'i. I found its view of progressive revelation particularly problematic. It attempted to treat its relation to Christianity like Christianity's relation to Judaism. The basic problem being that Moses said to look for someone who was coming after him (Deut. 18). Jesus was like, I'm him and there is no other (John 5:46-47, Mat. 24:23). So, the biggest problem with baha'i is this. Jesus claimed to be the ultimate religious authority, yet, suppose Christianity is wrong. But Baha'i says that Christianity is not wrong but completed by Baha'u'llah's teaching. Therefore, if Baha'u'lla is correct that Christianity is true, then he is wrong, and if he is correct that Christianity is false, then he is building upon bad foundation and so is wrong. Someone asked how the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh contrasted with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Abdu'l-Bahá replied that, "The teachings are the same;" "It is the same foundation and the same temple." Baha'u'lla's attempt to co-opt other religions, while seeming to be a strength is actually its greatest weakness. The other problem is that its books of divine revelation are rather elaborate and sprawling. The writings of Baha’u’llah include nearly 20,000 unique works have been identified. Most of these Writings have been collected; however, 865 are known to have been revealed, but the texts are not available. Its true the many of these are private correspondence. This information can be found on their website (search: bahai library number of sacred writings). But the fact that so much of his writings are not available and that successors have modernized the teachings is revealing how man centered the religion is. It's not really about divine revelation, it's about human peace and happiness.

[@taranehvargha41]

Please ask your guest about his definition of a cult? Was christianity also a cult for the jewish people and Judaism? Is christianity a cult for him? What about Islam, is it a religion?

[@gigi_enItalie]

One of my fundamental questions as well. What definition of "cult" are they using? If they label the Baha'i Faith as a cult, then they should also label every major world religion as a cult as well (e.g. Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam).

[@lokith1562]

Christianity was definitely a cult when it started, as a cult is essentially a relatively small religious type group or movement. Until you reach some sort of secret critical mass, I guess you don't become a recognized religion.

[@lovemusic20ification]

THE MOST WIDE SPREAD RELIGION IN THE WORLD 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮

[@Sharksnak7]

It’s interesting that every other faith has to contend with Jesus’ existence. But Christians have no conundrum with any other faith’s deity.

[@cultmecca]

Your comment is very narrow in its view of faith. Islam and Bahai came after Christianity and claim the Abrahamic tradition so they have to include Jesus in the faith seeing as he is part of said Abrahamic tradition. Judaism has to because Christians claim he is the Messiah which Jews dispute in much the same way Christians dispute the authenticity of Muhammad as a prophet and Muslims dispute the authenticity of Baha’u’llah as a prophet. Non-Abrahamic faiths do not have to contend with Jesus however. Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Shinto, Taoism, various folk religions do not. They are not in the Abrahamic tradition nor are they connected to it in any way historically. Jesus is not apart of these faiths in anyway. Practitioners of these faith may have thoughts about Jesus and his teachings but this is no different than a Christian having thoughts about Siddartha Gautama (the Buddha) and his teachings.

[@christophercano4809]

Not really, only post Christian abhrahamic faiths. And when other non-abrahamic eligions mention him it is always after contact with Christianity.

[@bahwickee]

Thank you for this!

[@elliefurughi1489]

Baha'i Faith is an independent religion. It is NOT a cult or sect. It began after Islam in 1844 the same way that Christianity began after Judaism. Some of the information presented here is NOT accurate. Please investigate independently.

[@christo-chaney]

I’ve been to the Baha’i Gardens in Israel in 2022. Baha’i are not a cult.

[@heystevematthews]

Watch the videos. Especially Part 2.

[@christo-chaney]

@@heystevematthews have you met with Baha’i people at all. Have you read any of their texts? They’re not a cult. I’ll get the information from the horse’s mouth…& not listen to lies coming from a jack@$$.

[@lokith1562]

@@heystevematthews Do you know what objectivity is? And if so, do you profess to possess any in this arena? Because just your tone alone, says you don't.

[@heystevematthews]

@@lokith1562 Maybe I have studied Baha’ism for a long time so I have been able to come to some informed conclusions. Please watch Part 2 and you’ll understand that.

[@lokith1562]

@@heystevematthews Watched it, and unfortunately it only cemented that you two aren't actual seekers of anything but validation of your preconceived judgment. The sad pretense of it all, as if you're doing anything more than working on rebuttal practice and the fear mongering, were enough to show you're frightened of something. There's a difference between knowing the path and walking it. Studying is not the same as actually attending or being involved in any aspect of it, you have come up with conclusions, but how informed they are is diminished by the fact that you've only ever seen, or cared to see; the outside of things. There's no heart in anything you discussed or shared with your fellow yes-man, whether from a Christian or Baha'i perspective. In His time, you would have denied Christ and thought yourself wise, by holding to Judaism in His time. Luckily for you, everyone goes to Heaven.

[@jobrown8146]

I've known about Ba'hai since my early childhood because there is a temple in the northern suburbs of Sydney and we used to visit friends who lived close by. I don't know why but as a child I had nightmares about the temple. We only ever drove past it but it was easy to see in the 1960s because the trees were still young. I have learned about the religion but had never realised that it stemmed from islaam. For some reason I thought it came from Asia.

[@NaserEmtesali]

_Beginning in 1844 as a reactionary messianic movement within Shi'ism, Babism had, by 1848, attempted the abrogation of the Islamic legal system and, within another year, proclaimed the replacement of Islam by a new divine revelation. This extraordinary development, which was cut short by the physical repression of the Babis by 1852, was based on a series of claims to original charismatic authority by the founder of the movement, Sayyid 'Ali Muhammad Shirazi, the Bab. Although he finally claimed to be a divine ‘manifestation’ sent by God with a new book and law, Shirazi had commenced his mission by urging no greater claim than that of representative or ‘gate’ (bab) of the Imam -- something not very far removed from what was later asserted of the supreme marja' or what is today claimed for Khumaini by many of his followers. Baha'ism, which emerged out of Babism in the 1860's, was based on a similar claim to divine authority superseding that of the past, and achieved an even further-reaching charismatic breakthrough. In the end, the Baha'is claimed for their movement the status of a new religion, independent of Islam, a claim which has been furthered to some extent by the relative success of their missionary enterprises outside Iran throughout this century._ _Apart from their undoubted intrinsic interest, Babism and Baha'ism seem to me to be significant in the present context for a number of reasons. It is, first of all, worth noting that, although nineteenth-century Islam witnessed the emergence of several messianic movements, such as the Mahdiyya of the Sudan or the Ahmadiyya in India, all of these remained within the bounds of Islam, from their own point of view, at least. It was only in Shi'i Iran that a movement appeared which broke entirely from Islam and, in the end, successfully established itself as a new and, in some areas, even a rival religion._ (ISLAM IN THE MODERN WORLD, Edited by DENIS MACEOIN AND AHMED AL-SHAHI, ROUTLEDGE LIBRARY EDITIONS: POLITICS OF ISLAM)

[@RamiSobhani]

I agree that Jesus came to teach so other manifestations of god, not just to die on the cross. Tell me your opinion if you disagree and why?

[@jccklh]

I am a Baha'i, and appreciate the mostly accurate description of at least the basic facts, although we may differ on the interpretation of facts. Since you have asked for any specific inaccuracies, I would say the description of Baha'i scripture needs some context. The Baha'i sacred writings include only authenticated original writings of the Bab, Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. It does not include any second or third hand accounts, so Islamic Hadith would not be considered scripture. In total volume these are over 20 times the size of the Bible, and include a wide range of styles, such as laws like the Torah, prayers and sacred poetry like the Psalms, prophetic oracles like parts of Isaiah, symbolic mystical writings like the Song of Solomon, wisdom literature like Proverbs, or Wisdom (if you accept the deuterocanonical books), and also interpretive works where the meaning of ancient scriptures like the Bible are interpreted. The writings of Abdu'l-Baha might be compared with the letters of Paul, since he provides explanations of the teachings of Baha'u'llah, not independent revelations. It does not include narratives like the Gospels as those are second hand accounts, although such accounts of events in Baha'i history are recorded and studied as history, not scripture.

[@jccklh]

Furthermore, Baha'u'llah Himself wrote thousands of letters to individuals, ranging from humble common people, who often were the most spiritual, to include well educated scholars, clerics and philosophers, and also the most powerful rulers of the world at the time , both secular and religious, including Queen Victoria, Napoleon III, Kaiser Wilhelm I, Tzar Alexander II, Franz Joseph of Austria, Nasiri'd-Din Shah of Persia, Ottoman Sultan Abdul-Aziz, and Pope Pius IX. He gave the rulers principles that would have prevented World Wars 1 and 2, but knowing they would be too proud and selfish to follow those principles, He foretold both wars in the Kitab-i-Aqdas. His letters to scholars and philosophers cover very profound philosophical topics that will be studied for centuries to come (as all the scriptures will). Although topics of theology, and natural philosophy (science) are very edifying, His emphasis is always on practical subjects that will bring about both the spiritual and material revitalization of the world.

[@reuelmelville5232]

Biltong! That's a South African Afrikaner delicacy. LOVE it!

[@BiankeMarx-s7l]

Was scavenging the comments to see of there were other Afrikaners here that caught it 😂😂

[@jaronfall6083]

Am I the only one who sees Rainn Wilson on the thumbnail?

[@TheCultishShow]

Yes, he’s on the thumbnail because he’s Bahai 🙂

[@mikechamp78]

He's a wonderful Baha'i who speaks and writes about the Faith.

[@kathymorris4553]

His new name is Baha’u’llah and the new song is the Baha’i Faith.

[@lolaispure4296]

I absolutely love their philosophy and outlook. I am friends with many of them....but i always had a problem with the Bahuallah man. It doesnt sound....i cannot bring myself to believe he is Jesus.

[@ChristopherdavidLineman]

God passes by

[@buffalolifesavers]

If they don't believe there is evil, how can they believe there is sin? What sets the 9 manifestations apart from anyone else then? Wouldn't everyone be sinless?

[@nonnymoose6260]

They believe the “Manifestations” possess additional capacities that do not even exist within other human beings. They believe they are not like regular human beings, they are a “higher” type of being.

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

I(Trevor Wolfe) have been sharing the gospel with Baha'is for years. They really don't have a concept of sin. When they do sin they will usually call it their "lower nature" pretty much a brief part of weakness when they actually do sin. I have talked with so many Baha'is that grew up in a Christian household that hated the idea of sin and hell so much is one reason they were drawn to the Baha'i Faith. It is very sad. That is why I continue to share the gospel with them. They so desperately to know the Jesus of the Bible.

[@bossman1744]

I’m a Baha’i. I believe we sin ​@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358

[@yodizzll]

We absolutely do believe in evil- that was blatantly incorrect

[@MatthewMuhammad]

This is a weird philosophical distinction. While 'Abdu'l-Baha said that evil is just the "absence of good", that doesn't mean that people can't do what we would call evil. It's a subtle distinction, and I don't know why he decided to make it. I think the Islamic view that people are born into a state of "fitra" (neutrality...kind of) is the most accurate. I could never accept the Christian idea that people are *innately* evil right out of the gate. That makes no sense to me at all.

[@pedros.cabrales9844]

Cultish is defined as a movement or group who are fond of regurgitating superficial knowledge born of ignorance and prejudice about other people's beliefs, and then looking at the difference generating a feeling of holier-than-thou attitude to project they are superior intellectually, spiritually or socially through this vlog. That's your operational definition of cult or cultish, I observe.

[@argyle6674]

Is Christianity an "ism" as it grew out of Judaism?

[@LASCHIVAS83]

The host said 'Rainn's spiritual view" isounds very easternish...oh he is a Baha'i...well ask yourself where else have the other major religions appeared besides coming from the ''east"...?

[@TBRRBT]

Perfect ❤. The Baha"i won't ever become "the" world religion" because of one word; "Christmas". Everybody celebrates Christmas even if they don't follow the Christian belief. As far as I know, Christmas 🎄 is here to stay🎉‼️

[@Leo-tf3rw]

Bahaí actually celebrates christmas

[@jesselohmann-od3vh]

I see people are getting hung up on whether or not Bahai is a “cult”. Does it really matter what you or people outside the faith label it? Shouldn’t you be more focused on the evidence for why you’re putting your faith in someone or something? You can call Christianity of cult all you want, but to me, the important thing is the evidence to support faith in Jesus is stronger than all the others. Plus I think Bahai is a cult if you go by the third Oxford dictionary definition: “a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing”. And I don’t believe you can apply the same definition to followers of Jesus Christ.

[@mickeyb1164]

You guys should do an episode digging into ancient civilization beliefs/neopaganism like what Billy Carson and Graham Hancock are teaching.

[@Robespierre-lI]

You'll get a more neutral perspective grounded in detailed historical research and archeology if you look for religious studies scholars' channels online, instead of Christian apologists. Apologists, if they have any academic training at all, generally aren't trained to understand any religion other than their own. It's a bit like going to an electrician to learn about plumbing.

[@anniebootboot]

The Baha’i Faith is one of the least cultish religions I’ve encountered. They are arguably a moderate religion. Cults thrive on secrecy and coercion. The Baha’is I know do not behave this way.

[@reneeroberts4953]

Do you have plans to cover the love has won documentary that came out in 23? I know you have episodes from 2021 when she died. Just wondering love your content!

[@tylerwinter512]

Have you guys ever done an episode or research into LLDM? It’s like the Mexican version of Jehova’s Witness or Mormanism. It’s widespread internationally, it’s extremely well funded, an frighteningly powerful.

[@Schlemiel-schlimazel]

Your overall attitude is somewhat dismissive of this Faith. But everything you describe about it is wonderful. Maybe you should approach it with an open heart and mind…like you would expect others to approach your religion.

[@patrickmanda7777]

The approach is just honest… but there’s nothing in the faith though

[@Schlemiel-schlimazel]

@@patrickmanda7777 what?

[@MatthewMuhammad]

I'm not a Christian and don't agree with your guys politics, but everything he says about Baha'i history and doctrine is 100% true. I'm surprised, as most Christian opponents of the faith present faise information in order to build up their own religion. At least this guy was honest enough to use the facts. I hope part two gets into the authoritarian structure of the organization, censorship of Baha'i authors, changes in translations, deletion of certain verses, etc. Also, he is wrong to say that people don't become Baha'is for intellectual reasons. A lot of people join the faith specifically from a philosophical perspective. I have even heard some Baha'is say that they don't believe in God, but they think the Baha'i code of conduct and teachings is the "perfect system". I think his dismissive view of Bahai's get the best of his analysis at times, but he is mostly correct.

[@kianabah]

Bahai faith doesn't wanna be the universal religion lol if anything its saying all the religions are all representing the SAME God. It's an anti nationalist religion (Im personally a nationalist but I digress)., its attempt is not to control the world and doesn't have a secret evil plan. Do you not believe that there is only one God? So how can every religion have their own? To me it just always made sense that when a new religion comes, it is sent so that it can help out the people of that time period. Doesn't mean it's no longer good 2 thousand years later. It just means that if you wish, you have the option of joining the newest one and Bahai's are supposed to convert to the new one once it comes (personally I'm a little skeptical on how we know its legit or not but its future people's problem) . Baha'i is not a cult lmfao if it was damn I must've missed out on it. I did Bahai camp and the entire time we were doing community service and teaching kids about good virtues and with the permission of their parents we would let the kids of whichever religion they came from to say a prayer and eat snacks and play games, etc. You guys clearly don't understand the religion and it shows. As an Iranian Bahai (the birthplace of the religion) I can say 100000% that we're the #1 persecuted religion to a point im still scared to tell people what my religion is, look up how badly we're treated, it def didn't give me a special privilege and it certainty doesn't provide me with a special privilege now in the United States. Also we're not all leftist, my family and I are fully republican, loving humanity doesn't make you a liberal and wanting to care for animals doesn't make you a vegan. You can leave the faith literally whenever you stop believing no one is going to force you to stay. And Baha'is are not related to Islam. Islam came from an Arabic man, Baha'i came from a Persian man born in Tehran. And the islamic influence is easily explainable if you see what happened to Iran after the Arabs invaded Iran (Persia) during the Islamic expansion.

[@shengll]

heart yoga, connected to Baha'i Faith, probably from Shi'ah and Sufi teaching, very strong influece of the Sufi tradition, which would also be connected to Rumi D' Din Attar cult: a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

[@stylicho]

I was hesitant to click on the video because i was expecting the usual motiff to create numerous strawman arguments and attack those arguments, but you were actually pretty knowledgeable

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

May I ask why you were hesitant to click on the video? Do you happen to be a Baha'i?

[@stylicho]

@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 I was hesitant at first because people haphazardly post pictures of the founders of the faith in which I personally don't wish to view at this moment, and there's oftentimes a nastiness amongst people on the internet when they talk about the faith. I don't really feel it's my job to defend it so I'm not really interested in hearing all the negativity. Kind of like where Jesus told his disciples to wipe the dust off their feet if people aren't interested in a healthy debate but to just be negative. As for myself, I'm not sure what I am. I do a lot of things that Bahais aren't supposed to do so I let God decide what I am

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

@@stylicho Yea, I can totally understand why you would feel that way as a Baha'i. I know how Baha'is feel seeing pictures of what you probably would call manifestations. There are indeed some nasty and hateful things that are said about your religion. While iam an evangelical Christian I never want to purposefully upset anybody as I believe the gospel is offensive enough as is. What did you like and dislike about this presentation?

[@stylicho]

@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 he knew the writings fairly well and was fair in my opinion how he viewed Bahai scripture. I would disagree with one area though and that's where he discussed Abdul Baha's take on the 1335 day prophecy in the book of Daniel. From my understanding Abdul Baha doesn't suggest his view is the only view when gleaning passages in the Hebrew Bible or New Testament. For example, here's what he says after discussing Adam and Eve in Some Answered Questions: "This is but one of the meanings of the biblical account of Adam. Reflect, that you may discover the others.​" So he does leave it open ended for individuals to come up with their own interpretations.

[@davidbell1619]

My teachers ground into me one thing to remember. " when in doubt,stay inside the writings of Bahaullah."

[@khanferoz8423]

Fabricated ahh religion

[@WilderlyPro]

Can't wait for part 2

[@jimbrunsman1011]

Not even 10 minutes in, and already two annoying ads. Buh bye! Also, I studied the Bahais for a while and found nothing cultish about them. There was some controversy with Shoghi Effendi, but I don't know if it's sinister.

[@divinebahaiknowledge]

As a Bahai, you guys did pretty well about Baha’i history. However, we are not a cult, because to be a cult you would need to follow some ordinary man. Baha’u’llah was no ordinary man. He was endowed with the Holy Spirit. In fact, the Bible predicts Jesus will come in “The Glory of My Father.” Baha’u’llah means “Glory of God” in Arabic. So to be Baha’i means to serve the Holy Spirit. The same one that was once sent to us in the form of Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus the Christ, Moses, and probably hundreds more history has lost in time. - Peace

[@briandiehl9257]

That is not at all how the bible predicts Jesus's return

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

I am a Christian and I can definitely see why you as a Baha'i would find the word "cult" is offensive so I sympathize with you there. I have many Baha'i friends and have had many conversations with them. I usually hear them say the Baha'i manifestations have the same Christ Spirit. Do you believe that?

[@divinebahaiknowledge]

@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358 Hi , thanks for your comment. Yes, I believe according to Baha’i Writings, Jesus’ Holy Spirit is the same Holy Spirit in Baha’u’llah, and all former Manifestations. If you’re interested, please read Kitab I Iqan, by Baha’u’llah or “Gems Of Divine Mysteries.” Both are available free on Bahai Reference Library.

[@ysk2083]

Do Bahai's believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ? And do they believe in the universal law of non contradiction?

[@divinebahaiknowledge]

@@ysk2083 Yes we do. We don't believe in a physical resurrection. We believe in a spiritual resurrection. To your second question, yes. To give some more detail: one of our beliefs is "Progressive Revelation" which supports the idea that God send's prophets and new religions with teachings that are in accordance with the times people live in.

[@patrickmanda7777]

I have known the faith for sometime… here is my question if someone can answer: if there are many manifestations of God namely Moses, Buddha, Zoroaster Jesus etc and the Baha u allah is the current one, all others are passed and irrelevant for this age and Baha u allah his also according to Bahais the second return of Jesus Christ my question is why is Jesus Christ returning and not all others? Why is he returning if his age is passed?

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

I'm not a Baha'i, but I have been talking to Baha'is for years. I'm guessing they would say that all of the manifestations are equal and all have the "Christ Spirit" and Baha'u'llah is The Promised One of all Religions and Baha'u'llah is Jesus because Baha'u'llah has the same Christ Spirit that Jesus has. Does that answer your question?

[@patrickmanda7777]

@@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358thanks why Christ Spirit ? And not krishna spirit? The point is they want to make sure that they find association with Christ in order to be relevant… all false religion try that one way or another!

[@Me-on1tq]

I explained many things cause i believe as great your explanations are..there are some discrepancies here and there

[@shengll]

okay, Sufism was a " school " , which restored essentially Persia statehood ... education was mostly through " religion " , which was Islam ... obviously religion is often connected to " educations "

[@stealthfighter9911]

Wow goodness this talk was incredibly offensive I truly apologise to the baha'is. The Bahai's are some of the most loving and kind people I've ever met in my life. For this guy to learn so much about it all just so he can disgustingly disrespect and crudely induce his own false doctrine is quite upsetting to see. Who is he to think he can tell what people should believe.

[@shengll]

okay, what exactly are you guys talking about, Gospel of Constatntine the Great, or what the heck is going on with cult: a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

[@stylicho]

Look up the number 19 in the Quran. You might find it interesting

[@nkosistrainbullies5806]

So choosing the top 9 faiths was the answer. There were more cultures than 9 on the planet.

[@sherrywarren-biers3327]

As a former Baha’i, I still admire and respect the faith. However, because of the extremely restrictive, impractical and narrow minded social laws, I finally made the decision to leave this religion behind.

[@therapywithisabel]

My son has just been invited to a youth group in the neighborhood. I've never heard of this religion before. What are the restrictions you speak of?

[@QueenTiye54]

Wait. I was expecting the main reason you're saying the Bahá'í Faith is a cult is because it diverges from a certain Christian understanding. Now I am wondering what you think the Bahá'í Faith is a cult **of**

[@shengll]

Also pay attention to " Arabic " numerals ...

[@ulldemo]

Cultish behavior is a given where a group of people gather, unfortunately. Baha’u’llah’s writings promise sovereignty to a pure, kindly and radiant individual, and also gives a blueprint to how the collective can self-organize, with grassroots-based local assemblies, free of clergy, elect their national assemblies, where patriotism is allowed, and nationalism is condemned, and a global world body, elected at 5 year intervals, by secret ballot, which can guide all the the nations of the earth. The term New World Order was initially coined by Baha’u’llah, but has been hijacked by a power seeking elite, thus blocking the true light of his teachings. However, spirituality is ascending world-wide, and time will prove that this system will prevail over other organized religions.

[@astetic_vibezz319]

I don’t Belive any faith is a ‘cult’. I belive all majour faiths come from one source promoting ‘peace, love and harmony’ unfortunately in each faith you have a bunch of idiots who can be fanatical. I’ve come accross this in many faiths - unfortunately not a good experience with the Bahai’s. Respect for other peoples beliefs and ways of life should be practiced by all. Actions speak louder than any beliefs - if the actions don’t align, I run a mile

[@MaoRuiqi]

I was a fervent Baha'i until i read the Qur'an. If that book fails; then IMHO, like a house of cards, the Faith fails.

[@kkwok9]

Nice.

[@KingdomEvangelism]

The Muslims are growing the fastest as expected.

[@bl1ndguy0]

that's like saying "The Jews are growing the fastest as expected."

[@user-zt6nm5gz4g]

He is right only by birth

[@richardkambe3105]

The most important thing with Bahai faith is the progressive revelation of God, something which is still a mystery to some people whose reasoning and attitude bases on prejudices and dogmatism, but if we free ourselves from these monsters, and see it in the Light of God through Christ teachings, Bahaullar has released Spiritual powers as that exctally of what we expect on the return of Christ, from the Bible the book of revelation the whole of chapter 22, Christ said that we shall see them by their fruits, humanity is at the apex of maturity just like how a seed planted in soil grow up into a big tree, Bahai faith is the University of World religion, therefore, let's be true seekers of truth because of course if God is one he must rule in World affairs irrespective of so many differences in the world, Bahaullar teachings helps to learn how we can get United in one purpose.

[@aaronlee75]

A primer on Baha'i apologetics pt 2... my personal perspective. Re Christianity... Baha'is tend to prefer the use of the KJV over other translations (in English anyways). Speculation.... because it's non biased being published ~1770 ad. Bias for or against a POV is an accusation that plagues such translations as the New World Translation by the Watchtower Society. One tactic used is to look for biblical precedent... if something happened once in the Bible, then why can't the same mechanics be used outside of the Bible? Why can't it happen the same way? ... much like a mathematical formula but with different variables. Ex... John the Baptist being the return of Elijah. Solution being that John was the return of the perfections of Elijah, rather than a reincarnation of the OT prophet. Baha'is are non-trinitarian. The relationship between God, Jesus, and mankind is like the sun, the rays of the sun, and the earth. God (the Father) being like the sun, Jesus or any other Manifestation of God being the mirror reflecting the rays of the sun... the rays themselves being the Holy Spirit. Although not an original argument, Baha'is may point out the trend in the Gospels of Jesus almost always being subservient to the Father. If the Trinity, strictly speaking, is supposed to be 3 coequal parts of the Godhead. There's also the exclusivity doctrine within Christianity... Baha'i POV was that Jesus, at the time, was the latest and greatest... a dispensation lasting roughly 1000 years, give or take. One might point out that Deuteronomy 18:15 on talks about God sending a prophet like Moses to the people of Israel. Acts states that this is referring to Jesus. On the face of it, if Jesus is like Moses, wouldn't that make them roughly coequal? From a Baha'i POV a Manifestation of God is both a man, and the embodiment of the Voice or Word of God for that day... in the same way that John the Baptist was Elijah according to Jesus... an example of Biblical precedence. If Moses and Jesus are equal, then expanded out this would allow for there to be other "annointed ones of God" IE the equivalent of other Christs. Just like Christianity was to Judaism, others also were "New wine in new wineskin". The religion of God being eternal, but that it must ever be renewed.

[@brock1120]

Super interesting episode & guest. Love the show.

[@Yesica1993]

Wait, is that Jim Jones on that cup that says, "Drink up"?! I sure hope not. Because that's horrible if it is.

[@thehumblee.w.8370]

😂

[@Yesica1993]

It's not funny at all. Listening to that death tape was horrifying. Especially the children crying.@@thehumblee.w.8370

[@christianexbahai]

Good explanation of Baha'i and some of the problems with it. Walter Martin was 100% right about Baha'i in Kingdom of the Cults. Baha'is like to draw people in by presenting their religion as logical and in agreement with science, throwing Christianity under the bus for belief in miracles and the resurrection, belief in heaven, hell, Satan, and the need for water baptism. I would say Baha'i appeals to the logical mind whereas Christianity appeals to the heart. One would have to establish a relationship with Jesus to become a Christian. In Baha'i there's no relationship with Baha'u'llah - he is seen more as a harsh judge and God is unknowable and sees us like unimportant ants. I look forward to hearing more of what Steve Matthews has to say - he has a good grasp of Baha'i, better than many others (who were never Baha'i) who try to explain about it.

[@aaronferguson8161]

This post is entirely mistaken. Baha’i’s cultivate just as strong a relationship of love and closeness for Baha’u’llah as Christians can with Christ. I can’t think of a single Baha’i whose first thought of Baha’u’llah is as a “harsh judge”. We literally call him the “Blessed Beauty” and Baha’i life is filled with endearment and adoration for both God and Baha’u’llah. Every year we celebrate His birthday, every year we celebrate His ascension, Baha’i life is filled with reflection on His life and enriching our life with stories of His qualities, wisdom and deeds. To say we have “no relationship” is ignorant. Relatedly, God, although an unknowable essence, does not see us as “unimportant ants”. There’s no basis in the Baha’i writings for that idea, when the writings are fillled with examples of Gods purpose in creating and guiding humanity: love. Gods love is all important and constantly referred to, it is the very basis for all existence, as is drawing closer to that Ultimate Source. Although Gods essence is ultimately unreachable, we draw closer to him via His attributes, via the Holy Spirit and via the Manifestation.

[@christianexbahai]

@@aaronferguson8161 - My experience of Baha'i was much different. I did not have a close relationship with Baha'u'llah - it was not anything like the relationship I have with Jesus. Baha'i is a legalistic religion forcing people to follow laws set by Baha'u'llah, or be shamed and guilted for not being able to do so. That is why I say Baha'u'llah was more of a harsh judge. There are hundreds of Baha'i laws and ordinances in the Kitab-i-Aqdas and Lights of Guidance. Example: pray every day at the right time and facing the right direction (toward his dead body) etc. There's nothing like that in Christianity, in fact in Galatians 5 it says: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage....You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5: 1,4) Baha'u'llah wrote, "The best beloved of all things in my sight is justice." Don't deny it. Baha'u'llah was a harsh judge with many laws and his followers today continue to do his bidding in Local Spiritual Assemblies, National, Universal House of Justice, etc. Christ gave us a religion of LOVE - He said, "Love one another." Baha'u'llah gave us a religion where Baha'is are expected to watch one another and report misdeeds to the Local Spiritual Assemblies so there can be punishment. You know it and I know it, so don't pretend otherwise.

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

It is good to see you on here. You have a powerful story of being a Baha'i for many years only for Jesus to find you. Thank you for keeping Haven Ministries in your prayers.

[@xgnardprime]

Of Jesus Christ, Baha’u’llah wrote: Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit. We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified… We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. Baha’u’llah, Gleanings From the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p.86

[@christianexbahai]

@@xgnardprime I find that most cults (like Baha'i) try to justify themselves by using the Bible and praising Jesus. Baha'i does that and then claims the Bible is inaccurate, and that's so hypocritical. Baha'i denies the physical resurrection of Jesus, minimizes the importance of miracles, and makes fun of the rite of baptism. Baha'is do not believe in the importance of water baptism. I honestly believe that Baha'i is Satan's religion - created to take our attention off Jesus. I became a Baha'i when I was a teenager without any knowledge about the Bible (I was raised by agnostics) and it wasn't until I was in my 40's that I read the Bible and gradually made my escape from the Baha'i cult. It wasn't easy to leave because of all the brainwashing that took place over the years. By the time I woke up to who Jesus really is, my thoughts were programmed as Baha'i thoughts. What a tragedy for Baha'is to not know the real Jesus because they haven't read the Bible for themselves and haven't found the discrepancies between the Bible and the erroneous Baha'i writings.

[@adamykim]

Bro, y’all got to chill a bit. I have to listen at .75 speed. #getoffmylawn

[@faridzaer3707]

This is from a top communist minister: if all religions are the standard then the Bahais are not a religion and if the Baha’i faith is the standard for religion then all other religions are not religions. The standard these 2 dudes are Abrahamic and Bahaullah ended the cycle of Abrahamic religions and started the cycle of “ enlightenment “ and “ glory “!

[@Kelly-z3o]

The bab was not a shaki . He was found by a shaki . The bab did exactly as the shaki was told the bab would do. You clearly don't do any research

[@jkash6189]

He is a great resource

[@taranehvargha41]

With all the information of details, your guest's interpretation is not accurate and misleading.

[@evangelicalchristiandiscus2358]

Are you able to give examples of how his interpretation is wrong and misleading? I know Steve and I can inform him on anything he got wrong.

[@QueenTiye54]

Hey. The prophecy that EVERY knee will bow to Jesus has come true. No Manifestation of God after Jesus will not acknowledge Jesus. Praise God!

[@rhayn-e-dayz9588]

Anyone else think there is some similarity in Bàb, Bahà'u'llàh and the prophets of Baal?

[@ChristopherdavidLineman]

Clultish master plan

[@Me-on1tq]

I wrote a huge comment but maybe its because it was too long..it didn't go thru