An Ex-Mormon & Ex-Order Cult Member Compare Notes (ft.

[@MK-Hogan]

My grandparents were Irish Roman Catholic and had 13 kids. There were a couple miscarriages too so about 15 pregnancies. She was pregnant for a solid decade! She finally went to her priest and told him she didn’t think she’d survive another pregnancy and her health was suffering because of it. She begged to be able to use contraception or stop getting pregnant somehow. Her priest, not knowing anything was wrong before, said - holy sh!t woman! If it’s causing that many problems then absolutely you should stop. Don’t even worry about it. Your life is the most important thing. 😂 I’m sure those weren’t his exact words but my grandma just trudged through endless pregnancies and raised 13 kids with very little money because “every child is a blessing” and she thought it was a sin to prevent a pregnancy. She said if she had known her priest would say that, we might only have half our family today. 😅

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Woah!! That’s wild! I can’t even imagine being pregnant that many times

[@ashleebartels]

The more I watch this channel, the more I realize the cult-ish aspects of the Catholic Church. I grew up in a pretty strict sect of the Catholic Church, also Irish Catholic, and my grandmother went through the same situation. She was only allowed a hysterectomy because she almost died of ovarian cancer.

[@lauracarrolldebolt9233]

@@ashleebartels while Catholicism has a lot of problematic organizations and issues with abuse of power, I don’t think mainstream Roman Catholicism (not including Tridentine lunatics like the football kicker) meets the criteria of a cult, although not for lack of trying. While Rome hands down various encyclicals and the US Conference of Catholic bishops picks their own priorities, Catholics themselves occupy a wide swath of ideological ground. Catholics have been doing all kinds of stuff that isn’t “allowed” for a long, long time. Only the Pope can excommunicate someone, and it’s extremely rare. Catholic orders that run high schools and colleges are not subject to the direct control of the local bishop; a denomination that includes Georgetown, Fordham, Notre Dame and a school like Benedictine College is too unwieldy for the uniformity of thought that sustains a cult.

[@granmabern5283]

Every Catholic with a brain knows that responsible human adults don’t mindlessly procreate . Your Grandma’s attitude sounds evil and dumb. So, she doesn’t love half her kids??? And YOU find that funny???

[@granmabern5283]

@@ashleebartels So, you grew up in a family that was only pretending to be Catholic. That DOES seem culty. “ She was only allowed a hysterectomy...” what??? Was she honking for a hysterectomy BEFORE she got cancer? (Lots of bimbos apparently used to line up for unnecessary hysterectomies in the good ole days.). Did she want a hysterectomy as a brutal form of birth control?

[@betsybabf748]

They are forced to have 12 children but aren't allowed to have coffee? That is cruel and unusual punishment. I've raised 7 children, our 5 bio children & 2 foster children. Coffee is NEEDED morning to night for ultimate survival. Sorry, but no coffee is enough reason to quit a religion.

[@fabigrossi2976]

Even more weird, when you look at it with European eyes. We see religions that don't allow coffee or wine to keep the temple ( =body) clean, but the typical American food, even when home made from scratch, is so incredibly unhealthy, that the whole coffee prohibition makes absolutely no sense at all. No offene intended, honestly. Literally every American in Europe mentions the difference in the quality of food here. Coffee is not at all the problem.

[@michaelparks5669]

YOU MUST BE ON DRUGS!

[@debbyfazfphotography]

Happy Father's Day and happy 40th BD, Jonathan! You're doing a GREAT job!!!

[@debbyfazfphotography]

WOW!!! Everytime I think I've heard it all about FLDS, there's still more!!! 😮

[@anitaboneshow]

So the fewer children you have, the less coffee you drink? This is news to me! :)

[@Alpha-Chinoh]

These two ladies are speaking TRUTH to Power. R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

[@pianoreigns]

Cults are not the power. God is the Power.

[@michaelparks5669]

the deleted my post to hide the truth . No they are not telling the truth

[@katwitanruna]

Break the silence. Break the cycle.

[@laurajackson2429]

We all know Jonathan is holding and loving on his precious little girl!💖 HAPPY FATHERS DAY!💫

[@bauninilson9270]

Interesting note- I was a good little mormon girl who followed all the chastity rules, and one interview, I was answering all the questions, thinking I was doing so well, and the bishop was disbelieving of my answers! Every answer he was like "really?! You never ...?" And I was like "I thought those were the rules!" And I felt like he almost was disappointed that he got no 'juicy details' of my 'sins'. No idea if that's what he was really thinking, but that's what it felt like.

[@raigenhuss7030]

Creep was probably hoping you would have some stuff to share with him for his spank bank.

[@maroonblue7064]

@@raigenhuss7030 Did this Bishop say 'spank bank' or 'spank monkey'. How can LDS Mormon believe in racial hierarchy if bishop calls his johnson monkey if his last name is Johnson?

[@raigenhuss7030]

@@maroonblue7064 …what?

[@kimberlypainter5169]

Having to confess your sins is so awful. I'm so sorry you experienced this.

[@psilocybebae7106]

I can't believe how illegal what they are doing is and getting away with it. RIDICULOUS.

[@stellarosehendrix]

Hey! Mainstream rm exmo here, you both are so wonderful and help me feel less lonely during the hard days!! Thank you sisters!!! ❤❤

[@brendatomlinson]

Hi Stella, can you tell me what rm exmo is? Thanks

[@stellarosehendrix]

@@brendatomlinson hi there! rm means returned missionary (in the mainstream lds church, all boys are expected to serve a two year mission, girls can volunteer to do so) and exmo means ex-mormon ✨ it implies that I was once a strong believer, but I’ve found truth and a higher spiritual path now ❤️

[@brendatomlinson]

@@stellarosehendrix thanks for explaining the terminology. I’m new to this.

[@stellarosehendrix]

@@brendatomlinson my pleasure! 🥂✨

[@mamasmurf7830]

Yay! It’s been really cool to see yall become friends and collaborate ☺️

[@anitaboneshow]

Shelise - you are helping so many people raised in these toxic groups - you're so awesome!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you! Doing our best

[@annadrift4]

Say what you want about high control situations, but they couldn't break either of you. You both are such vivacious people❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Awww 😁🙏 thank you

[@TDruzhok]

Yay, another collab with Amanda! So happy to see y'all together again ❤

[@WolfHeathen]

I have a mormon cousin who moved from Sweden to Boston back in 1999 with his wife and daughter (permanent residents since ~2015). Being a mormon in Sweden is a lot different from being a mormon in the US. They go on vacation to Sweden every year and stay for 2 months. Whenever he's over here he drinks alcohol and coffee, parties, uses tobacco products, and acts just like everyone else. In the US it's completely different. There's temple every week and no vice whatsoever. This summer he actually said something that surprised me: "I spend 10 months out of the year living a "normal" average Joe life in the US, and then I come home to Sweden. Here I can do whatever the hell I like." He also asked his brother, a retired real-estate agent, to look for land close to where the rest of this side of the family lives so he can build a summer home. In the past few years he's gotten a good taste of life outside of religion and it looks like he's preparing to spend a lot more time over here in the future.

[@Marshmallofluff3]

Growing up in the Mormon church is the most embarrassing thing. I seriously want a redo at the beginning of my life lol, but I’m thankful to be free from it. I’m now Christian trying to find my way to a new church congregation but it’s so hard because I can’t get past the bitterness I have for tithing and when churches ask for offering it makes me doubt their church. I have a lot to heal from because of the church, and just continuously rewiring my brain. It’s amazing to see others speak out against the church because it truly is so creepy and disturbing the way they brainwash you into some eternal loyalty that isn’t even centered around God, Christ, or the Bible. It’s all about the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and the temples. It’s very misleading. Every bit of Mormon anything makes me cringe I’m happy you two found your freedom as well ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I feel you! It’s a LOT to deconstruct. Especially when you learn about the early church history and how dark it is.

[@lauratejeda8188]

Abuse, yeah. Toxic relationships.. Thank you ladies. 💖

[@felishakrogh4443]

They keep track of everything you owe them. I could call today and ask how much I owe the Mormon church. I haven't been in 15 years. It's quite scary.

[@lauraeyal6261]

Controlling someone’s underwear is a really good sign you might be in a cult.. new merch 😂

[@shields42062]

About tarot: the modern 52-card playing deck descended from tarot, which typically has 78 cards. The 78 is 56 minor arcana (the 52 plus 4 "knights") separated into four elemental suits and everyday issues, and 22-card major arcana cards. The major arcana deals with ideas of pagan deities and natural forces, and the progression of the soul--dangerous ideas in societies with orthodox religious views--and were suppressed. In fact, the only major arcana card that survived to the modern deck is the Fool, who appears as the Joker.

[@easybreezy4559]

I love that she says “potty” I say it all the time and it cracks me up😂

[@tdsollog]

Thank you for continuing to do this needed work. Polygamy should be illegal!!!!

[@debras3806]

It is😂. In the “Christian” world anyway! Not in the Muslim world

[@AndImsomelady-fq6cw]

It is illegal, only one the marriages is legal. The rest are spiritual marriages.

[@beadyeyedwomanify]

It is illegal its just not enforced.

[@AndImsomelady-fq6cw]

@@beadyeyedwomanify I can understand why it’s not, besides the lack of political will. Unless there’s an underlying crime, what is the crime? Adults are allowed to have relationships with adults, even unconventional ones. Polygamy vs my neighbors thruple? It does seem like the kingstons do have a lot of underlying crimes happening and where prosecution needs to happen. Child labor, and really all labor laws are being flaunted in obvious and breathtaking exploitive ways. I don’t know if the church tax status but that would also be a good place to start.

[@celineypie]

My two faves!! I love when you both come together 😊

[@TeacherKellyTag]

The BITE model is what made me realize that I was in a cult. My story is not as extreme as some of the ones on your channel but I was definitely in a cult.

[@brendatomlinson]

Do you mind sharing what cult you were a member of? If not I understand.

[@TeacherKellyTag]

@@brendatomlinson Sure. It was the ICC/ICOC

[@brendatomlinson]

@@TeacherKellyTag I’ll look it up, I’m not familiar with that. There’s so much to learn. Thanks for sharing, Kelly.

[@brendatomlinson]

@@TeacherKellyTag International Churches of Christ. Got it. So this appears to be an offshoot of the Church of Christ, which my brother and SIL belong to.

[@TeacherKellyTag]

@@brendatomlinson Yes, that’s another name for it. So it’s probably the same one they’re in.

[@davidtrujillo7877]

I really enjoy watching you two. It’s great chemistry!

[@MaryMelin]

Great show! Thank you. I’m a gentile living in Utah. I really like understanding both cults…it explains why some people treat me differently.

[@CincoShadd]

Love you two ladies. Keep performing together. Good chemistry.

[@allisoneuph1]

Love you guys. I was raised in a Southern Baptist Cult.

[@kimberlypainter5169]

20:01 the tithing is a HOOTTTT button for me. Idk if you'll address it later on, but the church hiding BILLIONS of dollars including tithes??

[@btterfly666]

Great interview! Thank youb

[@msdouglas12100]

Happy father's/birthday Jonathan!! Love you all!!

[@debraallender7444]

I'm really enjoying you two together! Out here in the Protestant world the preachers kids were always the ornriest and the ones getting in the most trouble! They were usually the funniest kids in class too!

[@tyruswatson2115]

Shoot, I just missed this live. Just at the beginning, looking forward to it. Sharing my thoughts... I think cults are started and lead by narcissists. So it does parallel the narcissistic family unit and relationships too. And narcissism actually comes from trauma. But a victim needs to get away and stop the abuse first, after healing have compassion for the abuser. It's a process.

[@breannankolb]

Ehhhhh i get what you are trying to say but narcissism isn’t an inherently bad thing. If you really want a job and tell the hiring manager what is great about you, that’s narcissism. The abuse is the bad part. And just because there is abuse, doesn’t mean it’s automatically narcissism. Narcissism isn’t necessarily a trauma response either. The issue is the abuse, not a buzz word that everyone is using.

[@jeremyjbaker1]

I am so happy to see you two happy.

[@truesavings1988]

I love listening to both of you!❤❤❤

[@tennillepatterson5500]

God's church has a slander section. That's a red flag, GIANT RED FLAG!

[@annadrift4]

Isn't there something in the Bible about slander/gossip? Could be wrong but I could have sworn there was something about talking bad about people or behind their backs.

[@graceyoung3771]

I had a NDE when I was 21 and the flowers definitely sing in Heaven. Plus their colors are so much greater, wider, brighter spectrum than is here on Earth. When you look down upon a flower you can see within and without all at the same time, like a 3-D computer model, the flower, petals, stem, eggs, roots, ect. As each flower is singing so is each flower, blade of grass, rock, water, is singing as well. Then all is combined into a beautiful beyond words symphony. You two are a delight.

[@MinhDuong-lg7uk]

What a wonderful way for your brain to react to the lack of oxygen it was experiencing at the time of your NDE.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

😮 sounds beautiful!

[@terrestreasures9138]

You two are great together.

[@marionwernermoulton3252]

Can’t get enough!

[@BrittPelt]

Love these streams! Have you thought about interviewing anyone from the cult Twin Flames???

[@CultstoConsciousness]

We reached out but they declined

[@brendatomlinson]

I watched the Twin Flames documentary and it’s very sick. I’m somewhat surprised that people joined it as full-grown adults, not brainwashed from childhood.

[@vickypalacios2519]

Two beautiful woman speaking about the ugliest things. You two and so many other survivors are so brave and endearing . Thanks for providing a safe place !

[@CultstoConsciousness]

❤️🥰🙏

[@rozannmoake8146]

The garment compass symbol is supposed to remind you to be on an undeviating course toward God. The square symbol or right angle symbol was supposed to remind you to follow with exactness or something like that. That might not be perfect, but it was something like that. I never really understood what the naval thing was about except that there’s a lot of talk about having health in the naval. There was also a mark on the knee, which was supposed to remind you that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is God or whatever.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Oooh good to know! Thanks!

[@SiljCBcnr]

Amanda Rae is stunning :o You're both amazing! Thanks for sharing your stories and experiences.

[@LadyPamela63]

What a great collab! I just love you 2 together!! Well done indeed! ❤ Dang girl, Gothard shares my birthday! I decided to Google him today for some reason after watching you ladies and I can never unsee that lol 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ lol If you’re Catholic it’s called “All Souls’ Day” just for some funsies information lol

[@annepoitrineau5650]

thank you :) xx

[@nancygardner5586]

Bingo. My mom was toxic and I ended up in word of faith and new apostolic reformation both very cult like.

[@kimberlypainter5169]

53:45 Handmaid's Tale sounds like a reality. 55:03

[@marlenabryant5547]

I fell in love with my mom's first cousin's son, that made us second cousins, but he was in the army and he broke off the engagement before 2 weeks before we got married.😅

[@juliapeterson4435]

50:25 amanda me too! I had no idea I was related to my ex-husband, but looking back now, it's so obvious I can't believe I didn't see it.

[@katesewardchambers6707]

Love both your channels, but really love you together 😂 How many members are in the order?

[@ZulcanPrime]

I attended a small Baptist church and a leader or pastor was a typical domineering narcissist. When I asked a question about the Trinity this person would give me vague answers and it appeared that he didn't like mature single men challenging his authority. He would shift blame onto me as though I was beneath him and less informed about the scriptures. He was a cockalorum ( a self-important little man) jerk. I only went to a few services because a sibling of mine had gone to that church before she died. Also, I met some people who went to this church who left the Mormon church and some were ex-JWs too.

[@tartgreenapple1]

Narcissistic parents lead me to a cult and narcissistic pastor. We can learn these patterns and repeat them.

[@shandawalsh3857]

Hi, you need to do an interview on farm families. I was definitely raised by a cult.

[@AndImsomelady-fq6cw]

The Kingstons really do sound like the handmaids tail.

[@aasiyapowell875]

In the Order, wives are encouraged to work for Order businesses

[@lisataylor-doherty1520]

I would love to see a collaboration with you two and also Sam and Melissa. that would be an amazing video

[@honeybadgergrrl77]

In the Church of Christ, we also weren't allowed to gamble, and my elder grandfather on my dad's side also would beat our ass if we got caught playing goldfish or war with face cards. The reasoning was that cards are used in gambling and therefore a sin. At ACU we couldn't even have "casino night" fundraisers with fake gambling for charity. It was so dumb.

[@Lara-EL]

"Church of Christ" LDS, or INC?

[@brendatomlinson]

Interesting! My SIL is Church of Christ and is big on going to the Native American casinos here in OK.

[@honeybadgergrrl77]

@@brendatomlinson ooooh naughty naughty 😅

[@brendatomlinson]

@@honeybadgergrrl77 she keeps it on the dl 😆

[@lindsaywilliams7865]

Not just temple interview yearly but you would also meet every six months with a member of the bishop brick

[@elizabethcollins8817]

Censorship ! 😬 this sect is sheltering it’s followers. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@kaikaihikaru]

Yey love you 2 together

[@yaninajenkins7667]

Black tea turns your insides into leather? Guess im a jacket 😂

[@thebulgariancheese]

There are 31-45 years old wards in Utah. They are known as the mid-single adults wards.There are quite a few of these wards around. After you turn 45, you are "banished" to the family ward forever! 🤣😂🤣😂 I am glad I am out of this church and any church for that matter!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I’m glad to hear they created a middle ground!! Lol

[@shanmarielewis330]

I've grown up in a church, but the Mormon garments blow my mind. That is some weird shit. lolol.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

😂

[@anne-christinejohansson5237]

Love you two togheter

[@MutterallerDrachen2087]

On the topic of people speaking value you into you…you are literally starved from it Amanda. There are studies showing that people who are confident and healthy and know themselves younger? Had parents who spoke value into them young. It’s why therapists tell us to look into the mirror and speak thing like …you are brave, you are kind, you are amazing… is so important. Even when it feels false because you were starved from it. Keep up the good work.

[@DustinHawke]

Shelise looks incredible!

[@מאירבןלזר]

It was very interesting, thank you for taking the time to photograph (record) this

[@brendatomlinson]

I love Swigs! The fruit refreshers are awesome

[@ATChick]

"You guys, you gotta make it sexy. Hips and nips! Otherwise I'm not eating."- Church of Cricket 😂

[@Baue1919]

So so true coming into a cult u fall right into bad relationships 😢 23 later hits home that I was even in a cult 🙈

[@Baue1919]

I was born and raised in PBCC or Exclusive Brethern - pls look up Get A Life Podcast Ex cult conversations. Would love to touch base at some point!

[@lindenyork2947]

Very ineresting yes Ameda is really pretty and you Sherlize i love you dress wine color venessa york SA❤❤❤

[@cassidynichols-dahill1066]

I just want to add that the young singles wards are only in place with a lot of Mormons there. Where I grew up it wasn’t a thing because if it was there would literally be 10 people in the ward. But we would all get together once a week to have family home evening

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Yes! Great point!

[@bvp121]

I wonder if some of this omitting of information is done under the guise of "children's stories." Like, 'of course we cant tell the full, true story to children because it would be too graphic/violent for them' but then they never say the whole truth of the story as you get older.

[@shellypittoors]

I would love to have a conversation with you about my own experience with Mormon culture and deconstruction with CPTSD I turned 53 today and I’m 2 weeks in 😭🤬

[@Songsofourown23]

Ugh I was in the single ward No dates because they didnt date people who looked like me lol. Im glad it worked out that way now.😂

[@anitaboneshow]

Molly - you worked hard to get out of the patriarchy - please don't jump right back into it!

[@breannankolb]

It’s interesting that they (the order) say that Amanda is bad mouthing the order when she is speaking her experience. By them saying she is “bad mouthing” in my mind is them acknowledging that what she’s saying is horrific, but continuing to do it anyway if that makes sense?

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Exactly

[@coffeedrinkingisnotasin6049]

Shelise Ann Sola please I'm begging you, look into the tar and feathering story. It doesn't have to do with persecution or polygamy. It had to do with Joseph trying to take land. There are two accounts. Symonds Ryder, letter to a. s. hayden. 1 feb. 1868 also Samuel F. Whitne. I just want accurate history.

[@bigbandsrock1]

It’s called elevation emotion! Disney uses it “in the nines!!!” The Mormon Tabernacle Choir, the thrilling hymns all of that is meant to prove that something is true. The Bible says that “feelings”can be deceiving and we’re not to go by our feelings.

[@capb6379]

There used to be a newsletter the order used to out

[@appledpickle]

Is it, like, unusual for couples to stay together through a transition down there? In my experience that's normal. My partner and I are still together and got married after my partner's transition, same with my old roommate and her wife, and our one couple friends who did break up, it had absolutely nothing to do with their transitions.

[@jessa9872]

Roman catholic church or at least the one I grew up in pass around a bag so if you didn't have money to add to collection you could just pretend you were adding to it.

[@anastassia.]

“God - first”😂

[@tartgreenapple1]

"Addictive personality" is not proven by science including genetics. It's just a way to isolate those dealing with addiction. It saddens me when well meaning people use this. If they understood that they're doing that, they'd stop using that misnomer.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Oh! I thought that was a proven thing. I will definitely look into that. Thanks for sharing.

[@tartgreenapple1]

@@CultstoConsciousness They're still diving into it. There are some genes that may make a person more prone to certain addictions but there's no one gene, no one specific personality that's an "addictive personality". Usually people put it on themselves to explain things. I think we're still learning so much. (Why can't we have all the answers in 2024?! 😂)

[@aasiyapowell875]

There are churches that allow/promote polygamy but don't require it like the Rockland group. They shouldn't be lumped with the Order and FLDS

[@embro2.0]

Amanda and Shay are “The Great Scotts” on YT.

[@Sabrinasolomon_xo]

Shelise you say “pop” instead of “soda”?

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Yep! Utah thing lol

[@blckcatluver]

i grew up saying that too and im from western new york

[@victoriagibby8069]

Canadian thing too!

[@lisaellis6291]

I was raised Mormon, with that said we weren't DEVOUT ie family home evening, mutual, etc. IMO I think it's more how much you, yourself go into being DEVOUT. We didn't have to wear garments, again that's for overly DEVOUT. I mean c'mon it's ALL BS!!!!

[@ellendehollander7684]

Interesting website the order has. Thanx for the tip. Like a workshop on 'how to legally cover your ass and still indoctrinate. Thanx again for your interview. Very inspiring x

[@ellendehollander7684]

Ps. The slander section is gone. I cant find any slander on the website.

[@Beckykeenanx]

❤️❤️❤️

[@Im_Aware_I_Know]

I'd be curious if the secret substance use in Paul's kids have to do with addictive personality, which is hereditary.

[@fialalala6903]

In Denmark we have a 29 year old conservative politician who has a 15 year old girlfriend and it isn't even illegal. He was thrown out of the conservative party though..

[@CultstoConsciousness]

😬

[@JimmyHawks]

I love ❤️ all your videos

[@bigbandsrock1]

What if you’re beautiful, fairly young, etc., but cannot have children? Do they put her out to slave for them or can she still receive marital love???

[@TeacherKellyTag]

56:38 That’s absolutely disgusting!!

[@OrthodoxChristianBeliever]

tithing, and I thought only Protestants tithed!! We don't tithe in The Orthodox Church. You decide what you give!! Nobody decides it for you!!

[@Dawn-fy7be]

I wonder what the marrying of siblings does to the boundaries between siblings. My brother has a natural aversion to thinking of his sisters in a sexual way. If little boys see adults marrying siblings they would begin to think of their sisters in a sexual way. Not a healthy thing.

[@AndImsomelady-fq6cw]

1:14:01 Maybe the brother watched too much lion king.

[@sharonminer9350]

It makes me sad that you didn't get to read books like, " Are you there God? It's me Margaret " by Judy Bloom.

[@fialalala6903]

So you can read Twillight because Stephenie Meyer is mormon? :')

[@kimberlypainter5169]

46:33 I am so glad I saved this video. You're not even living or whatever Amanda said. The church gave me so much anxiety. And I officially declared it was not true a couple of months ago. It still so hard to not follow the horrible train wreck of thoughts that are so deeply indoctrinated. I just want to preach to the world that Jesus was not religious, he was spiritual. Stick with the Bible and follow Jesus. Accept him for his greatest sacrifice.

[@The_Cat_Lady_]

By the way, fun fact, tithing is originally fron Judaism.( I grew up in an orthodox jewish religious situation) but tithing in Judaism is different, its completely personal, and you are suppost to give it to the poor, who ever you seem fit. And you are not suppost to talk about it, its actually considered a bad thing (talking about it) , its considered bragging, its suppost to be between you and god, some even give it to the poor by leaving it on their doorstep or in the mailbox, anonymously. Today some institutions ask for it but they can not demmand it. And its allways 10 percent of your income. Not more.

[@ExjwSmurfGirl]

❤❤❤