Leaving a cult, growing up with 18 siblings & the problem with reality TV | Ep. 49

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We had @dillardfamilyofficial join us this week on the podcast. Jill tells stories of her experience growing up with 18 siblings, being on the reality TV show 19 Kids and Counting & being in the IBLP.
Jill's IG: / jillmdillard
Derick's IG: / derickdillard
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Chapters:
00:00 - Episode 49
03:35 - Not being allowed to dance while growing up
04:25 - Why the Duggar’s had 19 kids
07:01 - Having to raise my younger siblings
17:02 - Faking scenes for TLC’s 19 Kids & Counting
22:44 - Being forced into the family business
25:30 - Leaving the cult I grew up in
34:27 - Explaining what courtship is
37:41 - Our first kiss was on our wedding day
41:45 - Building family culture as a couple
48:46 - My dad lied to the IRS about paying me
1:05:54 - A message to Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar
#unplannedpodcast #mattandabby

[@jenniferalvarez5111]

Jill was so respectful when talking about her family. She’s really being the bigger person. So proud of her!

[@storytimeeeee]

You can tell she was holding back/seeing the positives and Derrick was seeing more of the reality.

[@LadyLoraella]

@@storytimeeeee Yeah, he wasn't brainwashed by them since birth.

[@LeannaBanana]

She’s a good human. They both are. Proud of them for finding their happiness and what’s right for THEM.

[@cherylpelletier3165]

She's afraid those creepy parents will sue her.

[@cherylpelletier3165]

She's afraid those creepy parents will sue her.

[@tamaramarshall3393]

I'm an IBLP survivor. I remember going to conferences as a pre-teen and teenager in the 80s and 90s. I knew then something wasn't right. However, my mother was all in. All or most of our homeschool curriculum was IBLP based. I'm still a Christian and firm believer in Jesus. But no longer in a cult like situation.

[@juliachildress2943]

Awesome that you got out but kept your faith. I was raised in Christian fundamentalism but not as extreme as IBLP. I know so many people who were so hurt by it and many are now atheists or agnostic. I went through an agnostic phase, but then rediscovered my faith outside of Christian extremism.

[@megan8794]

So amazing that you were able to separate what the Bible says and what man has skewed. I know so many that fall away from faith all together because it is easier than trying to disentangle and decipher for yourself.

[@AprilW-ls6bd]

Good thing you got out.

[@graceliagreen5566]

So happy that you are still a believer in Jesus Christ.❤

[@samanthadancelover]

they weren't in a cult

[@gloriouslyimperfect]

Every single time I hear her speak, I am in awe of how well adjusted she is. She did the work, and it shows. Shes matured and come to a much healthier space in her life for her husband and her kids

[@ninam8089]

50:00 Isn’t it fascinating the Jim Bob himself personally recruited Derick to marry his daughter - and this bright young man ended up being the one to oust Jim Bob!! I love it.

[@storytimeeeee]

That was the work of a higher power!

[@pamelamessner1957]

Karma

[@anniekay3564]

Jim Bob didn't expect his choice of husband for Jill to backfire in his face. Just so glad it worked out for Jill!😊

[@juliachildress2943]

Sad for the younger girls, though. JB will probably never let them marry outside the cult. It's no accident or coincidence that Jinger and Jill have both put some distance between themselves and their parents. They both married men with secular educations.

[@angolson6108]

Me too. Its pretty funny

[@makennaedwards5861]

I grew up religiously watching 19 kids and counting so when I say my jaw hit the FLOOR when I saw this show up😱

[@cassidybrewer]

Same!!

[@mesquitegirl2013]

Same . Did you watch Shinny Happy people??

[@gracesstuff1410]

OMG SAME

[@iloveimaginedragons-yz7sn]

Same when I saw it I thought of two episodes the one where one of the brothers fell dow in that one part of the church and something happened to his tooth and the trip to Aldi’s episode

[@aasiyahhasan7664]

No pun intended haha

[@misslora3896]

Holy cow!!! Jill and Derrick Dillard??? I'm actually stuned. I love Jill and am so happy she found such an incredible supportive husband in Derrick to help her out of the IBLP cult.

[@jill7717]

IBLP? What does that mean? Sorry I have never heard of it ☺️

[@VanessaMilton-vr3wz]

@@jill7717Institute of Basic Life Principles

[@gingerleamcwow435]

​@@jill7717Institute in Basic Life Principles. Basically the game plan for "how to brainwash your family from the ground up." 🤭🤷‍♀️

[@misslora3896]

@@jill7717 "Institute for Basic Life Principles". It's a set of strict principles and guidelines developed by a man named Bill Gothard that many fundamentalist churches and Christians adopted that are very controlling and not at all biblically based. It's the strict doctrine Jill was raised in.

[@gingerleamcwow435]

​@@misslora3896I had replied and explained the IBLP is basically a game plan for brainwashing your family. And now my comment is deleted. Just funny how that happens, hmm.

[@mirandacooley1410]

You can tell how upset Derrick still is. And Jill is so nice about it lol.

[@MsDF936]

Her brain is still protecting her

[@CaliMel184]

It's because he doesn't have the trauma response that she does.

[@KellyHicks-pd1cf]

I do wish he would not cut her off so much.

[@I.and.A]

@@KellyHicks-pd1cf I actually felt like it was the other way that she kept cutting him off.

[@nicolebooth5447]

Agree. It’s like Derek is trying to make it sound worse and Jill is like well it wasn’t that bad…

[@Kiayamarieee]

Matt and Abby go down in history for having the most surprising guests

[@ameliao4000]

Agreed

[@Manzanitamystic]

I agree❤

[@LisaGoehringer]

Wish they could actually interview and dig deep

[@Running4lyfe1997]

Jill interrupts her husband a lotttt

[@MJ_Hershey]

Yes! I love it.

[@JV-sc2wr]

The fact that these parents weren’t putting away money for each kid is absolutely crazy

[@rebeccaschouten3142]

Not everyone has rich or responsible parents

[@MollyMA13]

That’s the whole point. Jim Bob got greedy.

[@ninam8089]

@@rebeccaschouten3142 they did. The parents were taking all the money

[@222222ania]

Letting their son abuse their daughters is crazier imo

[@N08R76H]

@@rebeccaschouten3142they were on a tv show, you make money from tv shows

[@crystalbluewire3339]

"Have as many kids as your body can spit out". That is the scariest thing that I have ever heard and also insane.

[@gerbilgeneproject]

Catholicism also is against birth control. This is not a rare thing in Christianity unfortunately, but it's also a personal choice.

[@jenniwilliams3295]

Literally Michelle's body gave out Josie was born insanely early and then she lost jubilee and after that there were no more because I think her uterus just gave up.

[@itzjusme]

@@jenniwilliams3295so sad. 🥺💔

[@KYCyn1066]

@@LovedbyGodalways Whether you can feed them, house them, or care for them or not, apparently. The Duggars had no problems shoving their kids off on their daughters to raise.

[@bonnylouwho76]

@@jenniwilliams3295 My uterus broke after four children, I consider myself very blessed to have been able to have as many as I could.

[@sland6428]

Networks need to have protection for ALL minors on their shows when it comes to pay 💰

[@shybirdfl]

💯

[@victoriamacpriest7130]

Yes!!!

[@ravenzyblack]

So does KZbin. Parents are literally using their children to start KZbin channels. From the time they conceive to after the child is born and beyond. The crazy part is there’s no separation between working home because their home is literally where they work. At least with the reality TV shows there are only certain hours that they can work by law.

[@etschmitz]

Look up “Coogan Law” (re: child actor Jackie Coogan); insane that this was allowed to occur SO MANY years after these type of situations have been addressed legally!

[@nicholastricarico2957]

You're dealing with television, and TLC. Two forces, who genuinely do not give a single f***.

[@CyleeBrown]

My favorite quote is “you can’t tell someone they can’t be sad because someone else has it worse, that’s like saying someone can’t be happy because someone else has it better”

[@christinemaney2294]

It’s all relative. I have had people actually stop and apologize to me because they were bitching about something in their life that was a problem and suddenly thought of the tragedy I’ve had in my life. Suddenly they were comparing our experiences and didn’t feel as though their problem was worthy. That somehow their problem or tragedy wasn’t tragic enough to garner support from me. Everything is relative and everyone, and their feelings, are important.

[@bonnylouwho76]

That expression it often taken too far, I am still trying to heal from undeserved guilt after sixty years.

[@CyleeBrown]

@@christinemaney2294 exactly relevance is key, and there’s a big difference in someone feeling themselves that the things that are getting them down aren’t so bad when they see someone else having a harder time- it may give them gratitude and perspective. This example is okay because it’s the recipient’s perspective being changed on their own. But I just don’t support it being the other way around when it’s someone else telling someone the validity of their circumstances or how they should feel. You can make yourself feel better by seeing someone else’s situation and realizing you’re not doing so bad and others have it worse than you do in a way that’s uplifting, but no one has the right to try and tell you that your circumstances aren’t valid or as important as someone else’s. I think also sometimes people look at others having it worse than them and use it as a way to diminish their own experience and be harsh on themselves which is also not fair! It’s okay to be sad for a time and upset about whatever is happening. We can only deal with the cards we’re dealt!

[@CyleeBrown]

@@bonnylouwho76 I completely feel the healing from unnecessary guilt to MY CORE! From my parents, past relationships, and even guilt I placed on myself from being a empathetic person and a people pleaser. It’s so incredibly difficult to create boundaries and learn to stop self sacrificing at your own expense. Over time I’ve learned this: I will give and help others with only pure intention, expecting nothing in return. While also learning to recognize when im being taken advantage of and for granted/not appreciated. And instead of falling out with people and reacting or confronting people about the way I feel in these exchanges, I simply make myself less available to them because most of the time it’s not that they’re a bad person or care less for them and our relationships I just realize that I can’t be there for them in that way without it hurting me. So I stop being so available to them, lending them my time and money etc. Sometimes it isn’t even for forever, people go through phases and seasons. And in doing this I don’t have to have uncomfortable conversations or lose friendships. I also try to be present and realize when I’m feeling unnecessary guilt and in those moments stop and take a few breaths, imagining that I’m breathing in new fresh energy and with each breath out releasing the guilt. And while I do this I say out loud “this guilt is not mine it was placed upon me, I release this guilt, I have no reason to feel guilty, I have good intentions and I am not responsible for other people’s feelings when my words and actions are not hurtful and come from a good place” hope this helps, you got this love! ♥️

[@WildPinkThing]

​@@CyleeBrown very well said!

[@lonelyovaries]

Derick is so well spoken and Jill is so good at explaining her feelings, and identifying where they come from.

[@glancycorner7425]

Lots of therapy and love. ❤️

[@rolundin1]

He keeps talking over her and it's driving me crazy.

[@jennifer7895]

Really? I felt like when she gave him a chance to talk, then she would cut him off. 85% of the dialog is from her while he's sitting there quietly or trying to get a word in. That was irritating me because i wanted to know his thoughts as well.

[@debbynelson9600]

Derick needs to stop saying “like”. That like drives me like crazy!

[@lauriegreer6836]

BOTH of them say “like” too much, that drives me crazy

[@agingsisterhood]

When he said "your next two babies..." I totally get that. I'm one of 23 siblings and I'm fourth from the top. We heard them say to my mom all the time "how do you do it." The truth is SHE didn't have so many babies, WE had so many babies. Thank you for shedding light and bringing this out of the dark. I wouldn't change anything because it's all been part of my journey but it certainly had its challenges and it felt like we were two families. The one outside the house vs the one inside the house. Positive love and blessings to you both 🫶🏻

[@msaijay1153]

Thank you for saying this. I feel way better about struggling with my 2 kids. We don't have an army of baby raisers, it's just me and my husband.

[@amychesek2108]

23? Same biological parents? IPLP followers? Are there sets of twins? Are any of your siblings still following this Christian teaching? Yes, it was part of your spiritual journey and am glad you have this perspective. God is good.

[@agingsisterhood]

@@amychesek2108 3 biological and 20 adopted. I was the first adopted. Some sibling groups, no twins, several bi-racial. I didn't realize it at the time but yes, IPLP played a part. We didn't grow up with tv, had a lot of restrictive rules, many of us still have a strong faith. For me I am far more spiritual than religious. I'm definitely still processing that how we were raised wasn't Normal but it made me the woman I am today and who I will continue to evolve to into in the future. We are all products of parents raised by parents, raised by their parents... imperfect humans raised by imperfect humans who were also raised by imperfect humans and that's, well.... that's perfectly as it should be.

[@amychesek2108]

Thank you for your thoughtful answers to my questions. You sure sound like you have a great head on your shoulders! Appreciate your perspective about all of us are imperfect humans doing the best we can as parents. God bless.@@agingsisterhood

[@AJDubi]

THIS. And it doesn't even have to be so many kids. I have read research, interesting however soft sciency, claiming that 3 kids is the most stressful for PARENTS - cuz that was the maximum parents could have and still try to meet all the kids' needs. Beyond 3, the kids started raising each other to some extent.

[@jessicareynolds8011]

Good for Jill for having the courage to speak out against this cult of a family and so called religion.

[@danizg9081]

It’s not a religion it’s a relationship with Jesus and God will judge this girl for backsliding and choosing the world, money and fame over family and following the Bible, which it says in there that a woman should not dress with clothes of a man and a man should not wear clothes of a woman but some people like to live how the world wants them to live. That’s the sad part of becoming famous it just breaks your family and your relationship with God because you have all these people asking you “why you wear skirts”? Yeah they were a little too old school and so many rules, but those rules will get to your salvation, yeah if you want to remain holy to your husband until you get married then yes don’t hold hands, don’t kiss, don’t commit premarital sex before marriage because what you want is to be holy for your husband, so she’s not rebelling against her family but Jesus!

[@msaijay1153]

​@@danizg9081 Jimbob is the one who sold his soul for money and fame.

[@danizg9081]

@@msaijay1153 well idk who did but in the end God will know I mean He knows but they will be judge

[@weeniehutjr9977]

@@danizg9081this woman and her family are lovely. they are not backsliding. everything you do and say is directly against the teachings of God and you’re going to be blindsided severely when the time comes. mark my words and count your days.

[@Journal2Awakening]

@@danizg9081those rules do not get you to heaven..that’s a man made rule …God is inside all of us.. no religion or organization needed… it a method of control… try to study something outside of what was taught to you..

[@mhdexile1]

Excellent interview Matt and Abby do a nice job letting their guests talk. I love that Jill has found her voice and is using it to speak about her experiences while not trashing anyone in her family Very rare for these days

[@UnplannedPodcast]

So true! I love how it doesn’t come from a place of anger. She just wants to tell her story in an honest way with all the facts presented

[@mesquitegirl2013]

Completely agree ❤️

[@aimeebaldwin5600]

​@sushooligan especially with her brothers situation and they expect Anna to support him. Poor woman. She should absolutely divorce him.

[@mesquitegirl2013]

@@sushooligan I agree, but I think she wants to repair the relationship and keep the relationship she has with her siblings so she’s just trying to be careful not to mess with that

[@AS-yz2iz]

​@@sushooliganNo, not really. If she loves them, she wouldn't trash them. And she hasn't. The best case scenario is for her parents to come clean with EVERYTHING one day and ask for forgiveness. That's not going to happen by trashing them.

[@blueskies7538]

I love the fact that she came out of the cult and still kept her faith! It shows her dedication and willingness to dig deeper into her faith, finding what the truth of salvation really is!

[@nikkifuzell8523]

I have had experiences in my life and I had support but I was allowed to speak my voice based on my experiences and I have support on the other side of the microphone and it was wonderful as well as my spouse I was you know just as important to work on the other side of the microphone for him as well and you know sometimes we it's the best just to let our spouses know that they're supported on the other side of the microphone Derek needs to let Jill speaker story write her script of her own life and let her share her own story without him he's her spouse he is not her voice he needs to be quiet I think honestly Jill married her father because he does not let her have her own opportunity to speak your voice by herself she like her sister at least that spouse let her have her own voice to let her be on the cover by herself and Derek did not let her do

[@peachxtaehyung]

Huh? Jill spoke majority of the time lol ​@@nikkifuzell8523

[@kylebrown5633]

THIS!! ❤

[@mercedesperez8015]

Amen!

[@jenniwilliams3295]

Jinger is the same way. Her husband is a minister I believe and he actually showed her the true Christianity that was not a cult and so she has kept her faith but gotten rid of all of the insanity from the cult She said I think in an interview that she had been taught to live in fear so long because they were afraid every move they made was wrong and it's so freeing that her kids don't feel that way and that she doesn't feel that way anymore.

[@gracepansch1178]

She still clearly struggles with wanting to be involved in her families life and loving them even with all the hurt the causes. I praise Derrick for working on showing her how badly she was being mistreated. He sees through all the facade and she sees it is still holding onto those relationships.

[@cheesyDELISH48]

At the end of the day that is her family and she loves them and they love her. It is unfair how awful Jim Bob was to her, especially w the pants and nose ring stuff. Jinger was wearing pants openly first and did not get as much flack from their parents. A lot of it has to do with Jill being considered the golden daughter growing up. Her parents knew she was more submissive than some of her other siblings

[@RachaelNelson-bj3ku]

@cheesyDELISH48 All his girls gets flack

[@storytimeeeee]

This!!

[@AS-yz2iz]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a relationship with your parents and siblings, even if you don't agree with everything they've done and what they stand for.

[@anniekay3564]

​@RachaelNelson-bj3ku We have to remember that their IBLPP teachings about conservative clothing only applies to the girls because men can't control themselves.😢😢😢

[@mama_keikei8081]

I can’t believe how graceful Jill is when speaking of her evil father. She is learning so much and was humbled quickly. I’m so glad she figured out what’s best.

[@ashleyrocha1028]

She still has a relationship with both her parents and even spent Christmas with them. I don’t think she hates her dad, I think she has set her own boundaries for her well being.

[@Running4lyfe1997]

@@Jk71745dude she interrupted him so many times when they were talking and it was annoying lol, she wouldn’t let him speak

[@shaynak745]

@@Running4lyfe1997I agree with you!! It was getting very annoying and I actually felt bad for him at several points. Poor guy could barely get a sentence out.

[@joymorrison6614]

​@@Jk71745they both interrupted each other pretty bad

[@andreanittel2240]

and her dad considers himself a Christian- not in the slightest- into cult life and money as his god..................

[@miranda13c]

Derick really helped Jill get out of that cult.

[@aimeebaldwin5600]

Same with Jingers husband I think. After reading her book I learned a lot. Frankly I'm glad they got out of it.

[@Ccg996]

@@aimeebaldwin5600jinger joined a different one though

[@AprilW-ls6bd]

​@@Ccg996 Did you happen to read Jingers book?

[@brrrrre8362]

@@aimeebaldwin5600jinger is still in a cult lol

[@celestelawler587]

​ 12:48 @@aimeebaldwin5600 Jinger's husband is Calvinist. Like the IBLP, it too is a patriarchal misogynistic "religion." If Jinger hadn't married Jeremy she'd still be in the IBLP. Either single & still living in the Tater Tot Mansion; or, like her younger sister Joy Anna, married to another "Fundie." It's a shame that the only way they get out of the Tater Tot Mansion is by getting married.

[@swampophelia2098]

Derek is determined to get the gory details out when Jill is glossing over it

[@NancyAnderson-nt8bm]

It needs to be out!!

[@utuberhoda]

@@NancyAnderson-nt8bm exactly! It was like she was scared to let him speak

[@DaniWilliams93]

It feels disrespectful and disconnected. I don’t mean to criticize him, and I certainly understand he’s walked with her through the hardship, but it’s HER lived experience and she needs to process it in the way that feels right to HER. It seems she still has a desire to be honoring or protective of her family, and that is understandable. For him to push details out that she may not be ready to share doesn’t feel honoring of him. I’m personally struggling to listen to the whole thing, because I find myself bothered with how much he’s talking over her and hijacking HER STORY.

[@jennifertheobald9823]

@@DaniWilliams93 I believe it's "their" story. Derek was also affected by her parents and the show. They both seem to talk over each other but I think that's just their personalities not necessarily a bad thing.

[@AprilW-ls6bd]

​@@DaniWilliams93 Jimbob put Derek through Hell . He tryed to put their marriage off. He tryed to control their marriage . If it wasn't for Derek his wife would be still stuck in that , just like Jana and Anna Duggar are. I wish Derek would talk more.

[@SindyJ37]

Derrick got a lot of heat at first but he has been a good husband to Jill and I loved hearing Jill says she has a family, the Dillard's. Right on Jill ❤

[@RachaelNelson-bj3ku]

He will lie for money

[@samjensen392]

As far as I’m aware, he still hasn’t rescinded the transphobic comments he’s made about Jazz Jennings, so while he’s been a really supportive husband to Jill, there’s still areas that he deserves to have that heat on him

[@renise011]

​@samjensen392 he's not likely to apologize for that. He may not be iblp level of "religious" but he's still pretty conservative. He may not double down just because he's aware of how that could impact his finances. But he may not ever apologize, he just might not repeat it.

[@TammyMayCormier]

Thank goodness she met her husband. You can tell he has helped empower her and build her confidence to use her own voice.

[@PollyWannaCracker21]

Jill just seems so level headed, graceful, and forgiving for everything she has gone through. Handling it with class and grace. So commendable.

[@annathomsen4793]

I grew up watching 19 kids and counting. It's very refreshing hearing Jill talk so openly about the show and how it affected her!!

[@aimeebaldwin5600]

I watched it too as an adult and enjoyed it but thought they had weird beliefs. I wonder if Josh is still considered in this IBLP even after what he did and he is in prison.

[@elijahtorres2688]

@@aimeebaldwin5600Oh, I bet you he still is, which is so sad. Shows how manipulation of a cult can ruin your fame.

[@crystalmasters8582]

It's cute how she recognizes she doesn't want that life but still loved her siblings and being around them. She isn't totally throwing her Mom under the bus. Very clear that the parents were also working round the clock.

[@jenniwilliams3295]

Not Jim Bob

[@lanawr80]

I’m not a normal viewer of this channel, but this was a great interview. I’ve left behind a cult situation too, and I’m so incredibly proud of Jill. It’s SO difficult to untangle what is real from fairy tale when your parents and family are still deeply entrenched. When your parents question your salvation for ridiculous things like wearing pants, it’s easy to just appease them. She’s a very strong person and has continued to be a GOOD person which is also rare. I would certainly understand if she wasn’t so nice, but she’s very sweet and it seems genuine too.

[@agirlisnoone5953]

What kind of cult did you leave?

[@vee_tinymoose]

I’m not a usual viewer either, appreciated this one

[@lanawr80]

@@agirlisnoone5953 It was a small Pentecostal church that operated like a cult. Definitely checks all the boxes.

[@lanawr80]

@@agirlisnoone5953 a small independent Pentecostal church

[@audrajeanrussell8066]

God, I'm so thrilled for Jill that she found someone like Derrick. Those kind of good, morally & intellectually solid men like him are an extremely rare find in my experience. It warms my heart that he found someone like her...& that she found someone like him. You can tell he's extremely protective of her & that he is a force to be reckoned with when it comes to deqling with her abusive family & publicity. If only there were enough such men for all of us ladies who grew up in dysfunctional/abusive homes. Jill's extremely blessed & I'm happy for her. She deserves freedom from all the control she had to grow up under...

[@MrsDazl]

Rare find. Very rare.

[@michaelhall5943]

You can tell Jill grew up in a large family. She is so eager to speak and get her point across, I’m sure she never had that opportunity growing up with 18 siblings and her insane father.

[@vivio2852]

Good point

[@itzelw9159]

Yess and they kept talking over each other

[@goldenamik322]

The talking over one another and ‘like,like,like,like’ is really hard to listen to.

[@jillianlea9690]

She's the one that should be speaking. It's her story she lived it

[@shutupshelley1793]

Derrick is *THE BEST* among the clan spouses. He and Jill are perfection beyond words. So love this raw and "out there" true view!

[@dawnlong4809]

Also Jeremy with Jinger. They're an amazing couple as well.

[@danabarlagne7798]

I grew up very near to Bill Gothard teaching and my friends have been ingrained to their teaching. I applaud Jill of separating herself. I know very well what she has gone through

[@clairemathews6682]

27:20 "The reality TV (show) poured gasoline on the fire that was already there." Absolutely

[@sarahschamberger9919]

To think that I hate confrontation with one sibling and the fact she has to go through this with lots of siblings, her parents, and with the world watching.... Then go from a over the top, always together family (emotionally healthy or not) night and day (even sleeping with at night), helping raise the younger siblings, and then just feel like you are out of that circle and possibly have those younger siblings you helped raise turn there back. I just can't imagine how it feels or did feel for her... She obviously has a huge heart, and with that, I can't imagine how she feels.... so sad...

[@verasands1598]

Abby was on fire with her interview skills in this one. Thoughtfully listening and asking engaging questions and offering insightful comments. Abby you rock! Super mom.

[@makenna1048]

Literally love seeing her!! Grew up watching that show and was always always wondering why they weren’t filming her. And know I know faith aside it’s absolutely incredible to watch her journey grow. I’m so proud of her. ❤

[@mindymanda9065]

It's so sad how the older girls sacrificed so much, dedicated their lives to what their dad wanted, never got childhoods really, and Still say so positive even after all the trauma inflicted on them.

[@K2356-jc4qf]

Trust me they probably had a better and healthier childhood than most people nowadays.

[@lily-jane.400]

I grew up outside the IBLP but still related to it through a sister church association type of deal, and the Dugger parents came and gave a lot of speeches at my church growing up. And we followed the the rules like, women can’t wear pants, no pregnancy prevention, very patriarchal and strict. Definitely not true Christianity

[@lifebyhannah392]

Very similar situation to me.

[@danaezevely4150]

Was this church in CA? Sounds the same as the one I attended as a teen. Jim Bob was good friends with the pastor.

[@lily-jane.400]

@@danaezevely4150 no it’s was a smallish church in Arkansas. He had a very big reach and was able to influence a lot of the Bible Belt

[@happening_quietly]

I did too. It was the United Pentecostal Church. Now that I have read the Bible cover to cover multiple times I can finally say I have healed and I agree that is not true Christianity. Jesus would never do the things these people do in order to gain control, especially over women and the family unit.

[@shelbypertey4048]

This couple is so eloquent and well spoken. They don’t come on here with gossip and ill intent, they just want to tell their story and be fair about it

[@BethaneyLilly]

This was the most genuine interaction, it didn’t feel like a traditional “interview” mode like two couples/friends getting to know each other, the sharing of life experiences. Great job with this! My dad grew up in similar religious circumstances. The kids raised each other, mom was always pregnant and nursing a baby, as soon as youngest born it was passed off to an older sibling. Really the kids cooked, cleaned & raised their siblings, were made to work in the garden/on the farm like an adult laborer. School wasn’t a priority at all. He also had A LOT of “adopted” siblings which we later found out were just another income source…never legally adopted a single child, only fostered for income with a legal name change. This broke something in my dad, finding out he wasn’t really wanted or valued enough to adopt just a $ sign, & able body to work.

[@avanleighsamples3888]

I love that they get to talk about everything they have been through and still glorify God and share to so many people

[@0725361]

One can still love the lord. It’s not like they do not place god as number one they stopped and left a CULT

[@aimeebaldwin5600]

​@@0725361I believe that's what she means.

[@mentanoia]

i think this is the podcast ep i've been most excited for ever! it's really fascinating to hear someone from a completley different walk of life to me share their story.

[@kelseymcmunn5348]

I can relate so much to the family dynamics of breaking generational cycles that they speak of - I wish we could talk about it in person. I see now why so many people just continue it because it’s HARD work, isolating, and you get so much push back. I know it’s so worth it but it is a lot!

[@victoriaivy5953]

I used go watch 19 kids and counting and also counting on and the way I was brainwashed into thinking that Jill and Dereck were unhinged when they chose to leave and how Derek was blamed for it all… I can’t even… Now that I know better I feel SO bad for ever thinking that.

[@dawnlong4809]

Alot of us do. O cannot wrap my head around to this day how bad her parents and tlc spun this story against their own child. It baffles me that more lawsuits weren't done against Jim Bob and Michelle amd TLC

[@gunkulator1]

The show gave me the creeps right from the get-go. They were the Stepford Family, behaving like programmed machines instead of real people.

[@louiseyheartsbuble10]

Totally wasn’t expecting Jill and Derrick on this! ❤

[@beckyklepper315]

Jim Bob embezzled. Period Sooooo happy to watch this today!! Great chat!!

[@keepclimbing23]

This makes me worry that much more about Jana. So glad Jill, Jinger and some of the others are healing

[@andreanittel2240]

I think Jana saw what life would be like married and made the decision to keep herself free from a million babies. It's too bad she doesn't move away and lead her own life tho.............

[@lizg8360]

My hope is that Jana is saving up whatever income she can get so she can get tf out

[@RaisingMyWildflowers]

My honest fear that I very much hope I'm wrong about? Jana helps provide inappropriate wifely duties to Jim Bob. I grew up with a similar dynamic and have this same fear about my dad and sister.

[@just-a-generic-username]

@@RaisingMyWildflowers This is a pretty horrific thing to put out publicly with absolutely zero basis.

[@happening_quietly]

I mean the son probably got it from somewhere…

[@VegemiteQueen1]

I'm so proud of Jill AND Derek. There's still a lot of healing to be done, but together they have taken huge strides and I'm so glad they support each other so well. Congratulations to both of you and best wishes in all future successes!

[@siobhanm8721]

I so respect their decision to speak out on their terms with the hope of spreading truth and helping others! All I wish for Jill and her siblings is peace and blessings.

[@number4of11]

I grew up with a lot of these teaching. When I left home and those teachings, and a few years later, I was sexually assaulted. someone who was a close friend of mine told me that happened because I left the umbrella of authority when I moved out of my parents' house as a single 25 year old women. Being free of that control and manipulation is amazing. There are still triggers and trauma that I have to work through. But I'm grateful I'm not still in that.

[@Xx.bygracethrufaith]

so glad you're finding truth

[@s.a.6082]

Oh that’s so sick to victim blame like that. I’m so sorry, but so glad you’re free.

[@trandom2083]

@number4of11 sorry that happened. It happened because your were taught to submit and that having boundaries was bad or selfish. Prayers for healing & truth

[@m.m145]

You left naive, trusting and innocent. When you have parent hovering over your every move you don’t get a chance to see the world as it really is. I left the Mormon cult… boy was it an eye opener reading the life of Joseph Smith.

[@pennyschwabpundsack7649]

I'm so glad you guys had these two on your podcast. Definitely cleared up a lot of things. They're both so well spoken. You guys have the best guests,keep up the great work! Love you guys❤

[@sarahrose7163]

Great interview! So awesome that you guys actually let the guests talk!! I feel like in so many podcasts these days, the hosts tend to always interject their own questions instead of letting the conversation flow. 👏🏼

[@kathlinaarna653]

I discovered your podcast a couple of weeks ago and I've been bingewatching ever since. Your podcasts are so entertaining, so wholesome, so enjoyable! You make the Internet a better place. So glad I found you guys ❤

[@betsyr4411]

Excellent podcast! So glad you two asked Jill and Derrick some of the harder questions. Thanks for helping them get theor story out there.

[@sheripatterson8112]

I watched this show religiously.. and was blown away by what it really was..Jill was always so mature/sweet.

[@owenlyons76]

Shows how sketchy her dad is that he got her to sign that contract while Derick wasn't around. He knew Derick would read it and call BS.

[@maemccleary3283]

Honestly they should sue for some of the money. I know that'll never happen but they certainly deserve to be compensated for basically being exploited for years!

[@EmilyHeinberg-nn1wh]

Amazing interview! Matt asked great questions. Derrick seems like a great husband for Jill. His logic and ability to see things for what they are, is needed after all they went through ♥️

[@DelaneyWalker]

Grew up watch all of the Counting series and then as I got older all the truths came out so as an adult, I’ve been followings Jills journey leaving the IBLP cult and exposing and speaking out against her family. It’s so great to continuously see them speak out in different interviews. You guys always have the best guests!!!

[@LadyLoraella]

I remember watching the Duggars on TV, thinking "Wow, Jill is such a smart, driven girl who knows what she wants. She's going to have a hard time in that family when she's older." I'm so glad she was able to get out.

[@alldayseveryday3138]

I loved hearing Jill say “screwed over.” 😂

[@niniabeals9843]

A happy surprise to see them on the pod!! I love how casual yet polite it was carried out, and I love that it’s seem like Derrick knows when to pop in with his input.

[@mrsdarden]

Grew up watching them, and have been following their stories for years. How ironic I finally got to read her book yesterday. Can’t wait to watch!

[@cuppycakey5013]

This was such a great interview. Jill and Derrick are so down to earth and well-spoken. I watched for over an hour and saw that it was almost over and felt disappointed! I subscribed! 😊

[@beckyorton8312]

Jill, so much love coming to you and your family. You have so much grace about you, truly wish you and your little family a life of freedom, love and joy. Excellent podcast Matt and Abby ❤

[@AshleySmith-tc2ny]

That is INSANE you got them on the podcast. This is so awesome to see them in this light! And awesome for you guys!!

[@marenakline3850]

This has got to be my favorite collab so far!!!! Can’t wait to see what else 2024 brings!

[@paigegillam]

Love her and she tells an amazing story with respect and dignity. Pray her journey continues to bring joy and growth!!

[@reginamauro9299]

You can tell both Jill and Derrick have had a tremendous amount of counseling...and a great counselor at that!

[@franca4600]

Thank you Matt and Abby for an incredible episode. I think this couple has been through a lot of pain and hurt, and i hope the get to heal. May they experience heavenly joy in their lives❤.

[@kylies2948]

The guests just get better and better 😮❤

[@Dzzylizzy6590]

I’m only two minutes in and I’m so happy to hear that Matt and Abby read the books and watched the documentary before meeting with them I really love that you guys show you care

[@patriciaoconnell488]

What is the title of her book?

[@valoriefry9733]

​@@patriciaoconnell488 Counting the Cost

[@ashleybarber4086]

It's so sad how Jill was explaining the "buddy" system and she would say things like "Well yeah, my parents helped". 😱😱😱 Helped?!!? They didn't need to be helping you take care of THEIR kids. They should have been taking care of you kids, not having you kids take care of kids. People! Don't have more kids than you can handle.

[@kaypat98]

I wouldn’t even feel comfortable letting my 6yo or 10yo do any of that with their 1yo brother. Like carrying him, diapers, sleeping with him? No way.

[@jenniferwalsh1731]

God is in control of life. And loving your family is where you learn to love each other, and therefore others outside of the home. I don’t agree with all that they have done, but I agree with that, if done lovingly and not selfishly, and believe it’s biblical. We train up our family to love and care for each other. 💜

[@just-a-generic-username]

@@jenniferwalsh1731 What part are you actaully agreeing with "if done lovingly"?

[@dash-x]

Parentification is a horrible burden to put on a child. Your meant to have a childhood. It’s one thing to ask “oh can you grab me that thing for the kid” but caring and raising kids is horrible. They cooked for all the kids, were the teachers, bathing, laundry, house care, dressing, just too much for such little shoulders. Also it was only the girls.

[@cheriecallettaatcomcast4590]

That happens in a lot of bigger families. My grandmother pulled my mother out of high school in the tenth grade (maybe tenth) to send her out to work in a shop to make money for the family. She got her older kids to help support the younger kids. My mother always regretted not finishing high school and not being able to go to college.

[@melissap7420]

That was an amazing interview! As someone who watched their shows, I definitely enjoy hearing different perspectives of how the kids grew up. I always wondered how much of their show was scripted and dramatized for TV. I assumed probably not as much as others since they viewed it as a way to share a message. Very well done and well handled. I agree that Jill is doing very well balancing telling her story and doing it with respect to her family. Love the podcasts!!

[@jessiebauer102]

The way I clicked on this video so fast. I grew up watching the Duggars and really respect Jill, Jinger, and their other siblings that have spoken out about disentangling their faith from what they were taught growing up. I completely agree with Abby that Jill has always been so respectful towards her family and their relationships; it could have gone another way, but it shows she still loves her family, while still being (rightfully) hurt by their actions.

[@tammym3661]

Thank you for the video. It is great to see Jill and Derrick doing so well...and living their life, their way!!

[@user-js5gy1pq3u]

I absolutely loved this interview with Jill and Derrick! I love them and they are so transparent and honest! I wish them nothing but the best!!

[@amarissii]

I don’t really watch your main channel but your podcast is so good, you have such cool guests it’s crazy and your one-on-one episodes are also nice to listen to. Seriously one of the best couple influencers podcast!!

[@fareenaharris4386]

WHOAAAA!!! I'm in the middle of reading her new book! I was not expecting this! Love them!!!! I love your book Jill, thank you for sharing your story!

[@earendil0888]

50:33 I’m so glad to hear Derek bringing up JimBob being (potentially) audited by the IRS! That and tax fraud are the first things I thought of when I read Jill’s book.

[@suzinettles5228]

What a great interview!!! You guys did such an awesome job. Y’all asked all the right questions in the most respectful way. I so enjoyed it!!! ❤

[@destinycritcher3527]

Thank you for having them on! I loved the shiny happy people or whatever it’s called!! I’m truly fascinated by their stories 😊 I pray she finds peace and comfort and true happiness ❤

[@chalenem373]

Your podcast is killing it! The guests you continue to get are spot-on!

[@cammierountree5172]

Ya'll are so very brave to tell your story and to expose issues that need to be addressed.

[@jasminemacdonald0718]

Thanks for having them on to share their story !

[@heathermartin8918]

LOVE this episode!!! I watched their show for years!! Thanks Abby & Matt for doing an awesome interview ❤

[@juliavargasthompson4816]

Hi Abby, Matt! I’m usually more of a silent follower but I did want to take the time and thank you for all this work and effort you’ve put on your podcast and overall on the content you create. I’m far from living the life you both are living since I don’t have children in mind any time soon, but watching you inspires me and makes me wish for the day I do start a family. I love your transparency and honesty. Every Wednesday I wake up super excited because I know a new episode is coming. Today it really helped me get ready and come to the office. Currently having breakfast and listening to you guys before working (probably w another podcast in the background). Thank you again! I’m from Costa Rica; your message goes far 😊

[@tamaraliscia3408]

Jill has been able to build such confidence...I'm so pleased for her. I'm sure if Jimbob could do it over, he never would have allowed Jill to marry Derrick. I think Jimbob assumed Derrick would be easily coerced into cult life, and never question it. I have always thought there is a quiet strength and determination in Derrick and he is far from what Jimbob initially thought of him. Derrick loves and supports Jill. Jill loves and supports Derrick. They have a much healthier marriage than Jill's parents, and perhaps most of her other siblings.

[@feliciamcdonald7491]

I think this is my favorite podcast episode! I absolutely loved hearing some of their story! Would love it if they were on again in the future!

[@jasminebeard6421]

I love how excited Matt seems about this interview. You can tell he was really into the documentary and Jill’s book.

[@MrsPhoenix2020]

This was such a great interview. Jill is very clear in how she says things

[@judithaklamecki5134]

Great interview! Good job guys! I thought this was the most clear, in depth and comfortable presentation that the Dillards have given.

[@wolfpacksis2007]

Very interesting interview! I love how respectful they are of their family despite the hurt they’ve experienced. The talking over each other was a little distracting at times but overall great video/interview.

[@user-kn7lo6si5u]

I agree. I understand it's mostly Jill's story, but she talked over Derrick a lot & wouldn't let him finish his thoughts

[@stephaniewillard3783]

So happy to see all these people on the podcast! First Brooklyn and Bailey and now Jill and Derrick Dillard! Loving these episodes! 🫶🏻

[@stacydilks5260]

Out of all the kids Jill and her husband are the most down to earth. They even have their kids in public school

[@caitlynrene7894]

I don’t think they’re against homeschooling. Jill just felt too poorly equipped due to her own education to homeschool. It’s what they felt was best for their family.

[@pamelathomas312]

That is so commendably and heart warmingly self aware of her. She’s so amazing. 🥲

[@jane2tarzan]

When Jim Bob and Michelle reach the level of maturity and respect that Jill and Derek have, maybe they can finally find common ground. Praying for peace and happiness for ALL of US ❤❤

[@Upstream5402]

Jill is way more intelligent than her parents. I know Jill must feel really torn because she still loves her parents. Unless her parents quit the cult, and get real and join the rest of the world, I'm afraid Jill will never find common ground with them. I would not want them influencing my children with their bazare beliefs and practices and I'm sure Jill and Derek don't want that either.

[@bonnylouwho76]

I doubt in this mortal life-time..maybe when they meet our Maker they will already be dead and cannot die from shock, they are already THERE.)

[@micahthegirl]

I am so so impressed by jill and derrick-looked up to them before but look up to them even more now!!

[@emileepowers6203]

The way I GASPED and said "SHUT UP" when I saw who the guest was!! I never comment and am kind of a silent follower but I love the podcast and look forward to it every week!

[@vickykulig5080]

Just listened to this on Spotify, and wow, this was a solid interview. I read the book when it first came out and I was stunned, I’m a social worker, and implement plenty of trauma informed care, Jill helped show me a way of how to approach it with my clients to where I can help clients come up with strategies but at the same time approach it with understanding and empathy. I also wouldn’t be surprised at this point if you got Gypsey Rose Blanchard on here…

[@kimnash6653]

As soon as Derek started talking about Jim Bob and the IRS issues his ears turn red. Hes so p'd off!! Jill is doing her best to keep the conversation light. This was a great video!

[@voneyeva]

Jill's outfit is so cute! Also I love hearing her normal, unscripted voice. And that she doesn't stare at Derek like a zombie when he talks

[@jessc6119]

I love Jill’s take on everything. There are positives and negatives from all of our childhoods. Even if parents participate in forms of abuse (there should be consequences of course) but that doesn’t mean there weren’t beautiful moments too

[@KimtheElder]

Such a kind balanced comment 🌹