Cummins S10 vs. Duramax Camaro

Brandon's Cummins S10 drag racing at Scheid Diesel's eXtravaganza 2009. Round #2 rematch put me up against the same first gen Duramax powered Camaro Z28. I turned the nitrous on for this pass and hurt traction even more.

[@AmericanThunder]

I'm in the middle of the Hudson Valley. An intake heater on the Cummins is also known as a grid heater, because it looks like a thick wire grid that draws 200 amps and turns red hot inside the intake tract.(Like a heavy duty toaster) Glow plugs work in a similar manner, but are installed so they poke into the combustion chambers.

[@YZFoFittie]

126 Tree huggers just formed a prayer circle....

[@trentbratt1911]

cummins+ nitrous = the need for bigger slicks.

[@rchydrozz751]

Bigger tires will require lots of clutch work to make them work.

[@sjpfoothills]

need to go big tire on that S10

[@D-Man_Jam]

I would've kept the Stock engine in that S10. At least it has more get-up-and-go than the Cummins.

[@timparker1552]

You sir are a dipshit😔

[@Skivinz]

LOL so much coal rolling you could barely see the times :D

[@footbraker7070]

@brunski123 You are correct, that is nitrous. It it called "purging". The reason behind it is to make sure there is no air in the line between the bottle and solenoid. If there is air in the line, or anything besides liquid N2O for that matter, there will be a delay between the activation of the system, and the actual "hit" of the HP increase from the nitrous.

[@z3r0playsgames]

I'd love to see what these trap out at on a 1/4 mile track

[@CBKillas]

You rock my man.... Love the 400 EX too.

[@blown262]

@kkzippokk Soot does not affect the ozone layer. Once cooled, it simply falls back to earth. Since both are diesels, this is actually a very clean (relatively speaking) drag race.

[@scottehlenbach9968]

If diesel has better emissions than gas than I don't think our world will make it 2 much longer

[@RyanVier]

diesel is better now with urea... if the trucks/cars are not equipped with urea, then gasoline is cleaner.

[@boom50cal]

Diesel exhaust(the part you can see/blacksmoke) never reaches the ozone because it is nearly pure carbon which is heavier than air. Therefore, it simply floats back down to the ground.

[@fenderplayer489]

@13brotary You're right, it is unburnt fuel, I've never understood the fascination for it either, but I have a fascination with the black smoke haha. It's nothing more then internal combustion, one of two things here. 1:regular wear and tear on the engine can cause the black smoke if not well maintained. 2:larger fuel injectors. the soot settles to the ground, it's not going to ruin our earth for those of you who panic over it. Diesels are my occupation. and I love it!

[@fluffybeerman77]

watching these videos makes me feel like i have a mullet and mutton chops growing in

[@gbwdude]

That S-10 probably would've taken the Camaro if it wouldn't have broke traction

[@AmericanThunder]

I know all about breathing diesel smoke, I'm a truck driver. But believe me, standing nearby a top fueler or funny car while it's idling will make your eyes water. The nitro is ridiculous. (and awesome)

[@13brotary]

I've never understood this fascination with diesel's blowing black smoke. It looks amazing don't get me wrong but the black is just atomized burnt fuel that's being wasted. Well tuned drag diesels should only puff one time during the first pedal push then thin out quickly, if it keeps billowing you need more air

[@DNALI]

@celloprof Report comparison of fuel emissions[57] and show that ethanol exhaust generates 2.14 times as much ozone as does gasoline exhaust.

[@AmericanThunder]

That reinforces what the other guy commented. Turned up Diesels make soot,(carbon) which eventually falls to the ground, and as per that website; "diesel engines operate with excess air so emissions of carbon monoxide are very low". A typical gasoline engine creates much more carbon Monoxide, which is what counts the most, by far, in terms of long term emissions.

[@LordHyren]

yea, your both right technically, diesel engines are typically ~5% more efficient because of the much higher compression ratio and stroke length. But when you run diesels at higher rpm ranges (such as in this video) they're less efficient because of higher internal friction and decreased burn time.

[@bobbyb608]

Damn, I thought the s10 was slow as hell until I realized it spun tires halfway down the track lmao

[@iAaronHD]

Our environment is toast in a few more years. Thanks for lending a helping hand in that guys :D

[@nate0031]

@obelhu It's really related to the air to fuel ratio. People will turn up the fuel delivery on their diesel, often well past the engines ability to take air in, causing it to run rich. Basically, if you have too much fuel, there won't be enough air present to completely combust the fuel. The unburnt fuel comes out of the exhaust as black smoke. Picture an acetylene torch before you turn the O2 on. Ideally, If you were burning stoich, you would only see a slight haze of smoke, or none at all.

[@AmericanThunder]

Yeah, I know, I study battleships as a hobby. They're awesome. But I never said BBs were diesel, I simply said they used heavy oil to power them. I don't know of any diesel engine that burns heavy oil, but perhaps I'm mistaken? He was saying how it's a waste to use all this fuel for hauling stuff around, and implied that in the 30s they didn't waste resources hauling stuff. So I simply pointed out that they did, in fact, use a LOT of oil to haul stuff around back in the 30s.

[@fluffykittynoodles]

@act440 I was really beginning to think I was the only one that knew that still. Thank you!

[@AmericanThunder]

They did build 800+ foot long battleships in the 1930s that burned heavy oil and generated 200,000+ hp to move the 58,000 tons that they weighed. That's one way they hauled things in the 1930s.

[@AmericanThunder]

They're not at all hard to start in the winter, that's why they invented intake heaters. Even without using the intake heater for 30 seconds, my Cummins still starts immediately in the cold weather.(I'm in upstate NY, we have nasty winters) But it's better for the motor to wait that 30 secs before you start it. There IS instant power, also. Only diesels with huge turbos have lag. To answer your question; Diesels make twice the power and use half the fuel.

[@mageac]

@Tater314 epa also gives huge rebates on hybrids... when they get about the same mileage as a small diesel, and pollute about twice as much to produce/recycle the epa does what looks good to the public

[@covepontin]

@yagsisiht99 its used in the inter cooler because just like any engine colder intake air more horse power. plus the air comein out of the turbo its hot to start with

[@gmansdiesel]

Diesels actually generally run lean... A stock diesel at full load is likely around 25-30:1. Turning up fuel without adding air richens it somewhat, but the real reason for smoke is "local" a/f ratio. Diesel fuel flows through the injector, atomizes into droplets, vaporizes, then combusts. In the process, some regions in the cylinder are very lean, and some are very rich. The rich areas tend to burn incompletely, producing smoke. Thus, even a diesel running lean overall can smoke.

[@shimrra]

there was a drag race in there somewhere once the s10 got traction lol. they do make computers that will read boost and add in nor NO2 as your boost peaks, that way your not spinning off the line

[@307xDiesel]

@OSSBanshee smoke is a side effect of making power, the extra fuel helps get the turbo spooling quicker to make the power

[@NeilCaulfield]

the trail of smoke makes it so much funnier

[@caseboyed]

@adcstmh Because they are diesel enthusiasts... i love diesel motorsports too. You know, there's a 69 Camaro with a commonrail in it, mild mods and a light tune running a 9 second quarter mile. gets driven everyday and gets 35 mpg. THAT is why

[@nmdiesel89]

@agdthatguy this is a high performance off road only truck. if you took a oh say 9-10 second gas drag car. made it so that you could see the exhaust clearly. it would look pretty much the same.

[@AmericanThunder]

I've been building and modifying gas engines for almost 30 years, and only fairly recently(10 years?) gotten into doing diesels, but I could just be a teen living in my parent's basement for all you know, so here's some hard data for you to consider: Cummins diesel - 972 hp and 27 mpg in a pickup truck. - dieselpowermagdotcom/tech/1205dp_testing_mickey_thompsons_new_baja_stz/

[@177SCmaro]

@AmericanThunder Also, this is just a small point to add: while it's true those battleships, etc. of the 30's burned fuel oil to build heat the actual engines were driven by steam, often geared turbine, that actually did the hauling around of all that weight. You're right that it starts with fuel oil but those old battle wagons weren't directly powered by fuel oil like modern diesel engines are powered directly from diesel fuel today.

[@BasicallytoBasics]

Upstate, New York. Hell yeah, me too (Montgomery county). Where about are you from? I don't know what an 'intake heater' is, but are they the same thing as a glow plug? When you have to 'wait to start'?

[@13brotary]

@hitman2k4 I'm pretty sure its the exact opposite, adding more boost cools the engine adding more fuel heats it up unless you add more air- at least thats what i see when i crank up the injection pump and don't increase air. egts go through the roof

[@Tater314]

@zr2chevypickupman Its 2010... The ash is no longer allowed into the atmosphere for any on road vehicle. built after 1/1/10. Diesels are now using a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) from 2007 up. and in 2010 most will have catalytic converters that use DEF (diesel Exhaust Fluid) which is a urea blend which neutralizes the exhaust gasses... If it wont hurt anything, Why is the EPA going to these extents?

[@Hennen625]

hey man beautiful s10 conversion im currently doin a 4bt in my 88 s10. can i ask ..thats not a 5.9 is it cuz thats a lot of motor to squeeze into that little ass truck thats why im doin the 4bt

[@AmericanThunder]

Power, reliability, fuel mileage, 300,000+ miles between rebuilds, and cool factor. Is that enough reasons?

[@tbowwman]

@pfleeger2010 im guessing foot brake, because you dont see his hand fly up when he launches. but i could be wrong.

[@euoupoqi]

Love the pull start edition @ 4sec on the S10 best feature

[@Smittyschannel]

you need a longer burnout, & a little less psi in the slicks. Can you do dry hops anymore to test your traction after the burnout? take off your front sway bar if you still have it-it'll throw the weight to the back on takeoff

[@43415uranium]

Have hammering pistons and snapping crank shafts. I'm sure you mechanic and local machine shop will love you.

[@AmericanThunder]

Yes, I like the way you think. I have that same Iowa class broadside picture hanging on the wall behind me. 16"/50 - destruction the old fashion way.

[@priceman141]

They need bigger tires in the back because those are the driving wheels and they need as much traction as possible.

[@longboardguy]

@7150285 did you guys not see the s10 peeling the rubber off the back tires he couldnt get tractions, throw some slicks on there (bigger ones) and that little pickup would fly. Actually also on this note that camaro probally ways more then a small s10 pickup

[@nick121690]

that is impressive. musta been a hell of job

[@fenderplayer489]

@13brotary I wasn't disagreeing with you or anything. I was simply throwing in my two cents on the matter as well. And Everything you're saying is right. And yes, people argue about diesels all the time, they're all over the diesel videos. Damn environmentalists.

[@ablah6163]

spinning aint winning bro

[@12valvepower4]

he needs progressive boost controller or progressive nitrous controller like fwd cars have. puts it on a little at a time to not overwhelm traction.

[@CorePathway]

No, but it doesn't change the fact that halfway down the track the vehicles disappeared into the smoke screen...

[@12valvepower4]

we use ours to tow our rally car, tent trailer.. haul wood. great things happen when shes running. cna go along way with her going on.

[@dierscreations]

nitrous cleans up the extra diesel fuel you can actually see it out the pipe the added oxygen makes the burn more effiecient

[@177SCmaro]

While diesel engines do tend to do better on fuel and torque they don't make TWICE the power and use HALF the fuel when compared to an equivalent gas engine. Compare a turbo gas engine to a turbo diesel at the same boost, displacement, etc. The main difference will be the diesel will make it's torque at lower rpm and the gas engine will make it's torque at higher rpm (aka having more horsepower).

[@Gavs_rc_hobbies]

@tworth1953 thats funny because if i recall correctly for the past 5-6 years in a row a diesel powered car has won the 24hrs of lemans, and if diesels are " slow, dirty, and noisy", why are so many car manufacturers making diesel powered cars?

[@TheJediDreams]

I'm against the combustion engine itself. However I understand that at this particular point in time it is necessary, and so I can support using it for productive purposes. It's alright though, I'm not just complaining to complain. I'm actually working on a new type of engine to replace the combustion engine, and hopefully I'll be done by the end of this year :)

[@skirkland1980]

that is the strangest, most interesting title I've ever seen.

[@Dawsoncreekidol]

It is, I've seen 1200 hp 2000 tq and 47 mpg! it had most power, torque and best fuel milage in show

[@iAaronHD]

@ooniehunter5 I didn't say that the black smoke was anymore harmful than anything else. But how do you know it's not?

[@12valvepower4]

i hate reading comments that hate on superior technology. smoke is just unburned fuel. when your air fuel is correct.. you have very little smoke.

[@13brotary]

@nmarkus666 yup, despite the fact almost all race diesels run super rich you can actually have a seven second drag diesel you can still see at the end of the track. search "Banks Top Diesel Dragster: NHRDA Nationals" since it won't let me post a link-

[@177SCmaro]

I didn't say you said they were diesel powered, just throwing my 2 cents that the actual thing doing the work was a steam-driven engine, not oil driven. A small point since the steam is being generated by burning fuel oil. lol it's funny you should mention battleships. I happen to have an Iowa-class letting a full broadside go as my background. I wish they still made battleships. There's just something about pounding the hell out of the enemy with good ol' fashioned naval guns that's appealing.

[@anthonycarrolljr]

damm bro that s a bad as idea and biuld grats what wheels r those and the sizes front and rear i might grab that tire combo for my iroc..thanks tony c

[@cjolney]

It should say Cummins s10 vs Isuzu Camaro.

[@PatriotPits]

I respect the power a diesel can put out and I know thats why people play with them, but damn thats a lot of smoke...

[@SebastianLong]

8.72 at only 98.89 and the other 7.95 at only 91.30. Sure didn't look like an 1/8th mile.

[@Chifa8ball]

i love that turbo sound of a cummins

[@JonathanH1253]

@lilwhitevert the s10 is a chevy truck... unless youre talking about the ram cummins 5500 burnout video in the related videos

[@dieseldakota4]

@chevysb400 i'm 100% sure it makes a difference i've watched countless trucks put down respectable numbers quite a few 8-900hp, then hook up the nos and put down 11-1200hp that is a quite respectable differce and very noticable. yes propane or methanol injection are much better for work or daily driven trucks cause they last longer, but nothing replaces nos for drag racing. many trucks will run huge turbo's that wouldn't be able to spool without some nos. everyone in diesel racing uses it

[@SuBN01z3RaT]

need to see more diesels at drag week that way they can make a small truck and a car class being a diesel powered mustang won the diesel class for obvious reasons kinda kills it for the big diesel trucks

[@Dawsoncreekidol]

my answer is that even though they are making 1000 hp and 1600 tq they are still getting 30-40 mpg if its done right

[@XxXPR3dATORXxX]

i love looking at all these comments... im a gasser type of guy but i still know that the extra black smoke they release is unburnt diesel and and diesel IS safer than gas for the environment

[@HunterBosco]

never knew anything could beat that s10

[@pokealong]

When you drive it like this, no it doesnt burn cleaner. For daily driving though, yeah it typically burns a lot cleaner than regular gas.

[@McDon_RC]

@13brotary its actually soot that will fall back to the ground

[@NicksterSVT]

@woolridgewilly you mean upgrades to the point that they are inefficient and pointless?

[@maxnanabas09]

@zr2chevypickupman agree to you hehe its cold in their country but our cummins here in philippines has no black smoke haha because the engines burn well in our country because of our temperature

[@fasttoys41]

thats why you change the gear ratio and use the torque to your advantage

[@Hole_Motorsports]

did you see how much wheel spin he had at launch?

[@AmericanThunder]

Also, imagine the carbon monoxide created by a single top fuel dragster running nitro methane, or a typical 500 mile Nascar race. That would completely blow away(no pun intended) the amount of pollution created by a competition diesel. Nobody is on here complaining about those cars, though. (not that they should, mind you)

[@JimHunter19]

That S10 must run a whole lot faster than that 8.72 sounded like he lost his boost after he spun off the line

[@Kawasakiforlife7]

@the18gearJammer NOS purge, it gets the air out of the lines

[@xeronicus]

@thebellrajr Over what? Clean burning diesel?

[@AmericanThunder]

@adcstmh Small block V8 in a Camaro has been done more times than Britney Spears. But diesel power in a Camaro is a fresh and cool direction to go. Hot rodding diesels is a lot of fun.

[@RLD_Media]

Tell that too the millions of NHRA drag racers who use it professionally. and btw Diesels love nitrous.

[@AmericanThunder]

You're incorrect. 1) Diesel fuel itself contains far greater energy per gallon than gasoline/ethanol does. 2)Diesel engines will tolerate boost pressures and compression pressures unattainable in gasoline engines, which massively increase volumetric efficiency and energy generated in each power stroke. 3) Throttling an engine creates vacuum, which is mechanical waste, whereas a diesel never gets throttled, and therefore, does not have that waste. Gasoline is an inferior fuel source in itself.

[@SitDownAndTakeNotes]

Was that some NOS the truck had in the back?

[@RocketRichHiabDivision]

this truck needs to have to proper engine management as the thick black smoke is due to the fuel not being burnt completely. its only partially burning the fuel thats injected

[@nlo114]

From 0:52 onwards, it all looks like the aftermath of an industrial accident! Dayum, where'd they go in all that smoke? Anyone win?

[@Bostonharborwater]

That was cool,, i love seein the Cummins in the lil truck,, with old muscle cars, id rather see a Blown Big block, just my preference,, but both are pretty badass

[@13brotary]

@fenderplayer489 The argument here was simply -black smoke = wasting power- which is 100% true. There is this misconception out there that the only powerful diesel vehicles have to smoke like crazy. In no way am i saying this truck isn't awesome (it runs an 8 second quarter for petes sake) I was only pointing out it is possible to do this and still see it at the end of the line. Also are people here actually arguing about the environmental impact of drag cars?

[@177SCmaro]

lol I'm getting all nostalgic just thinking about it. I think I'm gonna go pop in some Battle 360 now. Maybe jump to the part were Washington takes on Kirishima.

[@un4gvngplsr]

@jizza777 You can add a purge system for looks, but I really don't see the point, people are just gonna make fun of you when they stop your ass in a race realize you really don't have nos. Basically just run the same purge lines as you would with nitrous, but you fill the nitrous tank with CO2 instead, since it's super cheap and an inert gas...

[@rocker4u123]

dude s10's are the erector set of vehicles. So much stuff you can do to them. Not talking about cheap aftermarket mods but a real mods for real racers.

[@volvopow]

is this a race or to see who makes the most smoke.

[@MajorArtillary]

Black smoke from a diesel means wasted energy. So much wasted energy. I always thought about doing a Duramax swap into my '95 Z28, but I'm not a fan of that particular sound, even if I could get 600hp and 25mpg in the city.