Cut-Down SMLE - WW1 Tunneler's Gun?

The myths surrounding the use of cut down Lee-Enfield during WW1 are fascinating. I recently had the chance to take a look at an example of a cut down SMLE, which differed slightly in that it still had its stock - which I think makes it a more practical weapon than a truly cut down rifle.
In this video we'll discuss the history of British WW1 tunneler and look at how they fought and ask the question would a cut down rifle have been useful in the confines of a tunnel?
Check out the accompanying blog for this video here: armourersbench.com/2019/07/28...
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[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks for watching guys, check out the accompanying blog here - armourersbench.com/2019/07/28/cut-down-smle-a-tunnellers-gun/ - Matt

[@blueband8114]

Good bye ear drums( discharging that in a tunnel)

[@brasstard7.627]

As short as it is good bye ear drums anywhere its shot!!

[@IMfromNYCity]

If the explosions from the mines don't blow them out first

[@matthayward7889]

Any kind of pistol seems infinitely preferable to a cut down rifle. I’m loving that they left the volley sights on a 4” barrelled SMLE though!

[@TheArmourersBench]

Right? A neat quirk!

[@sven9900]

Aso the smle has a trump card. is a flashbang

[@harlanmcdiarmid]

@@sven9900 what does evil orange man have to do with this? I bet his family sold find to both sides.

[@sven9900]

@@harlanmcdiarmid is a special perk. Not a orange business man

[@krieger8825]

The only guns that makes sense to use dual wield

[@johnprice5784]

The Lee-Enfield's were also cut right down to behind the trigger and then fitted to tanks and other vehicles as smoke/grenade dischargers, quite often a wire was fastened to the trigger and passed through a hole drilled through the armour to allow firing from inside the turret.

[@CATASTEROID934]

If I remember correctly the use of surplus rifles as purpose-made smoke grenade projectors continued into the second world war with Lee-Enfield, Lee-Metford and even some Ross rifles being mounted on brackets bolted to many Commonwealth armoured vehicles with the triggers being pulled via a lanyard or cord leading into the fighting compartment through a vision port. A few documents I've flicked through suggested the Universal Carrier's smoke projector(s) could be removed from their mounts and fired by hand in the direction of choice which I can imagine would be pretty punishing without the stock and still uncomfortable with it. A glut of these projectors were likely sold off as surplus or scrap as standardised smoke grenade launchers rendered them obsolete so I imagine those used as props in A New Hope were likely some of such articles. Hard to say for this particular item, perhaps it was for some fleeting role where the reduced length would be useful but the great flash and percussion from the muzzle weren't so detrimental, say through a short improvised firing port?

[@user-sl7fb3ho8n]

Just came into possession of a what appears to be cutdown French No.4 Enfield. Currently now going down the rabbit hole of these unique pieces. The barrel has been chopped as well as the forestock removed as rear stock chopped down. No solid info from the previous owner, he was under the impression that his father had brought it back from the war and had chopped it down for transportation purposes.

[@Jaemon4Eva]

This may have been a supplementary/stop gap measure since good revolvers/pistols may have been in short supply at certain battlefields with certain combat units who needed to resupply quick to re-engage.

[@TheArmourersBench]

That is possible but there's no accounts mentioning them as such. There was certainly a shortage of revolvers at points during the war though. Anyone lacking a re over would probably have taken a full-length rifle, after all some officers did carry rifles to diminish themselves as a target and for practicality.

[@richrock8960]

I have one of these with an 8 inch barrel and the stock cut down to a pistol grip that my grandfather brought back from WWII. The fireball is about as deadly as the recoil.

[@thedesignerblacksmith5953]

A few notable things from the video: - 2:00 SMLE mk 1 is one of the WW1 shortest rifle - Rate of fire from revolver is preferable - There is a 2-inch trench mortar that use SMLE as propellant. Later we have SMLE smoke discharger.

[@leighneil]

The fore-end from a MKIII, so it may very well have been assembled from a damaged weapon.

[@SlavicCelery]

Cut down rifles, for the moments you want both a flashbang and a deadly projectile in one.

[@northumbriabushcraft1208]

A 4" barrel .303 (with cordite powder remember) would be a hell of a muzzle flash and some evil levels of concussion. You'd probably kill the Germans by deafening them haha I bet you'd probs get like 1300fps out of that, which in modern terms is pretty slow, like a +p 9mm, but that's twice the velocity of a .455 service cartridge. Remember in both world wars, 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP) and 9mm Browning Short/9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) were considered full power military service cartridges. People might scoff at that today but I wouldn't wanna take a .32 or .380 to the chest or head, especially in the days before body armour. Nice video as usual man :)

[@TheArmourersBench]

Yeah, world of hurt for everyone in the vicinity firing this. Thank you, thanks for watching!

[@JoshtheBackwoodsStoryteller]

A part of me kinda dies whenever I see a historical weapon of the World Wars getting chopped down like that.

[@nickshowsstuff435]

A sawed off double barrel would of been devastating in those tunnels for the enemy’s and also for anyones ears around them. Same as a short rifle the sound would be deafening in a tunnel.

[@TheArmourersBench]

I think you're right, a shotgun would have been extremely useful in those confines.

[@user-ys2eq7mg1k]

Saw a lot of shortened rifles, but in most cases it was Mosin 1891. It was called here "Kulatskiy obrez", in most cases stock was cut very short, forming tiny grip. With very limited amount of handguns and huge stockpile of rifles after WW1 and civil war it was not surprising to see many of these used for self defense or carry. Dont understand purpose of SMLE with barrel so short (is it 2 or 3 inches?). Shots must be deafening and blinding anywhere, not only in confined space of a tunnel. Jungle carbine had significant recoil, but this looks much worse. And with all this shortcomings weapon is not compact or fast.

[@TheArmourersBench]

If I remember correctly they're often associated with the Partisans aren't they. I agree, it's a very impractical idea, especially for fighting in a tunnel! Thanks for watching. - Matt

[@user-ys2eq7mg1k]

@@TheArmourersBench , yes, but not with typical Great Patriotic war partisans, but with Civil war: this kind of guns often assiciated with Makhno's people, "Grean brotheres", "kulaks" and other often disorganized groups. In WW2 partisans was used rifles mostly without modifications. They cut only damaged barrels, sometimes to make grenade discharger.

[@warlorddelta8]

The obnoxious nature of the short barrel and SMLE, plus the large caliber, os precisely what makes this gun so awesome. It is cool because it is so goddamn goofy.

[@ckngmad1357]

jawa ion blaster

[@dalanwanbdiska6542]

Mine has a 11mmrail with a red dot sight zeroed at 50 yards max. I might add front grip.

[@oml81mm]

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that it was an igniter for a 2" trench mortar. It would have fired blank rounds only and would have been fired by a lanyard.

[@TheArmourersBench]

No evidence of this rifle being used for that use. Have a video on a mortar that uses a much more cut down SMLE for just that purpose though.

[@leighrate]

Perhaps someone with a brain decided that a bit of extra security by way of a couple of lads with one of them in their hands was an excellent idea. Also a pistol is an officer's weapon. Most soldiers would have been very trained on the SMLE. Pistol training would have been minimal at best. As for the muzzle blast? That would discommode any Boshe in front of it quite nicely.

[@LethalDosage69]

Pistols were also issued to specialist roles such as machine gunners, mortar crews, and tunnelers. They were also made available for special tasks such as tench raiding.

[@tylerfreal6472]

seems from the descrption of the report and the minimal target practice of the time i wouldnt doubt if some handguns were first and only fired in anger

[@sethlogee9316]

I don't understand how there are this big fights when two enemy tunnels meet, because when you break through to another tunnel isn't there just a small space exposed between the two. Its not like all of a sudden there a giant open space in-between the two there digging with shovels 🤷‍♂

[@noturfather1106]

Suddenly a guy throws himself through the wall you've been digging at, knife/club and or pistol in hand and and right in your face.

[@chrisbrent7487]

The concussion in a tunnel would blow ear drums of anyone near it. The jungle carbines are bad enough so I can only wonder how bad this cut off would be.

[@LethalDosage69]

The one in the video is a bitza, a Sht.L.E Mk.I, it's been fitted with a Mk.III fore end that has what is either an Ishapore screw or a walnut plug. The Ishy screw was done from the 1940's onwards, while walnut plugs were a British armourer repair, but most certainly post-ww1. It's possible its been built up from a damaged rifle, but that's most definitely not it's original fore end.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Good eye! Bit of a mystery this one. Thanks for watching.

[@avilhelm1697]

Do you know if captured enemy rifles were ever modified and used for special purposes?

[@TheArmourersBench]

I haven't seen any, or any accounts of it but it's certainly possible.

[@twizz420]

Small resistance forces would often use captured weapons.

[@WhattAreYouSaying]

I have seen a picture online with a German sniper that had a scoped Lee Enfield. The photo if from WW2.

[@jerrymond3652]

Cool

[@johnstacy7902]

Got the link from CandRsenal. Neat channel

[@TheArmourersBench]

Thanks for checking us out John, appreciate the kind words!

[@gordondelacroix253]

It's almost like both mr Pritchard and mr Mcbride ideas of using sawn off shotguns either for patrols or for indirect fire (yes, like a vickers) would have been a better idea for the tunnel rats than this. Yes the blast would have been deafening, but 00 is like emptying a 32 pistol in one shell. I know the french issued sawn off shotguns and 00 buckshot in 1915 to the 57 infantry regiment, and that there are several photos of the French "groupe franc" (sort of semi-official trench raiders/patrol units) in 1918 of those units coming back from raids with double barrel shotguns, but what about the british? Is there any evidence of even a private purchase of smoothbore shotguns ?

[@TommygunNG]

The Jawas called. They want to know why you chopped down their ion blaster. No muzzle can.

[@awetheaverage68264]

this is cuter than the kolibri

[@randomidiot8142]

I got a headache just looking at that thumbnail. My most frequently carried pocket rifle is a 7.62*39 and it has a 10" barrel. It clears the range whenever it comes out, I can't imagine double the powder and half the barrel length. Big oof man.

[@vismayballal7011]

The British could've rather issued a pistol rather doing such bad things to a rifle like cutting of the whole barrel.

[@arty-psycho]

Wouldn’t an obrez work better than that?

[@Momo_Kawashima]

Barrel is optional

[@ThoroughYoungin]

ar pistol lol, bigger bullet makes it better then 1911

[@tarheelriever2609]

It’s more difficult to believe ordinary soldiers wouldn’t of cut down their service rifles. Forget some nonsense rules, survival would be all that mattered to them.

[@TheArmourersBench]

Not necessarily, in a system where discipline is paramount anyone cutting their issued rifle down would face significant punishment. But saying that if they found one damaged or one that had been lost then perhaps they might have been able to cut it down without drawing too much attention. They would have needed an armourer to do it, no way to do it in the line so it wouldn't have been an impulse decision to make one on the spot. Its a topic that I think could stand a lot more research, something I might get to one day! Thanks for watching. - Matt

[@johnstacy7902]

Now, if they were able to capture German weapons I dont see why they wouldnt just chop those up. Who would even know they had them. WHo knows??? Maybe that gun was chopped up by the Jerrys???

[@-John-Doe-]

Video games. _"Quick scoping"_ and _"run n gunning"_ with a _"sniper."_ And historical revisionism. Yes, you can cut apart a rifle and remove every functional part of it. That's your answer.

[@daruween1398]

Brittish obrez

[@Kurogane_666]

Isn't the cut down smle a tanker ahha

[@stevedevice1866]

The butt makes it useless, try setting of some 303 British with your face that close to the muzzle. Down a tunnel lol

[@comradecracker447]

There probably wouldn’t be much proof of it were used. If it would be illegal to make, why ever have it reported. And why report a comrade for having one if it means 1 more gun to keep you alive. It would be impractical to have a full rifle if you were given one, and if it were stolen it wouldn’t do you any good to have it stay long, and it wouldn’t benefit you if you reported it and documented it lol.