Cylindrical Grinding on a surface grinder

Cylindrical grinding in the surface grinder. We try out the ATCO electric centers for grinding the OD of some hardened drill bushings on a tapered mandrel. This is a handy fixture for doing small OD grinding tasks in the toolroom. We are also testing a different camera and microphone setup in this video.

[@intjonmiller]

"I'm really lazy about making this kind of stuff; I just want to use it", said the man who has countless hours of videos of making tools of a wide range of complexity. :)

[@OldIronShops]

Jon Miller haha

[@DSCKy]

...and several years of filing... :)

[@TOXIXIFY]

I just got done watching the series on lapping plates. :D

[@henmich]

"Lazy"... I know most people could out lazy him any day.

[@Abom79]

Nice info Tom, I always learn from you.

[@oxtoolco]

Thanks for stopping by buddy! See you soon and buy you an adult beverage. Cheers, Tom

[@loftsatsympaticodotc]

Mucho love and appreciation for you and your videos here Tom. Though not particularly related, I admire your opening heavy-duty shop vibe complete with slightly fuzzy background image of the top-riding, twin hoist, older, fish-belly, riveted bridge crane! Happy Grinding !

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Glad to see you back on a weekly basis.

[@PhilsProjects]

Awesome as always Tom, Cant wait to shake your hand in a couple of weeks.

[@ianjoubert7505]

mr Lipton, thank you for the time and effort you put into filming your procedures, I and I'm very sure many others greatly appreciate it! please will you make more surface grinding videos? I have truely found a lot of very useful information on your channel. Looking forward to your next video Ian Joubert South Africa.

[@billdlv]

Looks like a useful attachment for the surface grinder. Audio quality is good in the video.

[@eduardorosales1959]

Please read "mandrel". Said so because I see the tool is set on the vise but travel is of the table. Thank you for all your informative videos.

[@oldshaky]

I want one! Good video, Thanks!

[@roborob767]

Been using the 'lectric center for years. Highly useful. Easily hold high tolerance and straightness.

[@brianbloom1799]

Hi oxtoolco, I recently pickup a south bend 10 heavy, It has a worn head stock spindle shaft, I made up a surface grinder to mount to my older south bend 9, When Grinding harden steel is water used to keep it cool during Grinding, Thanks Brian

[@flatheadronsgarage7345]

Well done Tom. Got my first surface grinder today, I’m posting on my channel, Abrasive 1 1/2 12” wheel with coolant. Hope to meet you at Stan’s. Was accepted to the grinder workshop on pre bash day.... I’m going to learn a lot from you. 👍

[@muhammadshafique8322]

FENTASTIC IDEA I APPRECIATE YOU

[@krazziee2000]

thanks for the video,

[@olavmsonge7552]

very good job :)

[@vishalchandila]

Hey man The reason behind vibrations can be that white head fastener on the mandrel because it is a offset mass. Love your video Love from India

[@elmeradams8781]

Yea that flat finger tightened screw twirling around on the mandrel does seem suspect.

[@EddieTheGrouch]

I hope you didn't pay much for that tapered mandrel. I can turn those all day long - usually when trying not to.

[@nowayjerk8064]

stuff not suppose to be tapered? :) lol

[@emilgabor88]

Same here. straight out from the lathe, no need to grind the taper in.

[@pierresgarage2687]

Send all those tapers to Tom, his shop will shrink FAST... lol

[@johnsaunders4227]

LOL

[@howder1951]

Nice!

[@xenonram]

I like the new camera and mic. Although I'm not one of those guys that comments about stood intricacies in the a/v quality. Film it with your phone and no mic for all I care.

[@TFOAustralia]

hi tom great vids i was wondering were i can get the plans fro the baby bullet vice ? thanks

[@senocon]

Try using a red grease pencil on shaft before grinding. shows highs and lows and helps stop crashing into the shaft when feeding in, old centerless grinding trick. also helps when grinding non-sparking material. thanks for the vid!

[@oxtoolco]

Good one! Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom

[@thakurboys5962]

senocon visited a workshop where they generally used inks on every job.

[@luckytoolroomskills]

Nice

[@gilbertodiaz-castro626]

Nice job, well explained , thanks. You mentioned that Robert Renzetti? Made one of these, can you provide the link to the video? Thanks.

[@pierresgarage2687]

Hi Tom, That's a nice device for grinding cylindrical parts, I'll have to get my hands on one if it shows up at a decent price... I'm always puzzled as people grind without cooling the part with coolant, if I can feel the heat it means to me that the part isn't to dimension as it will move ever so slightly when back to the room temperature or original temp... Also, the finish gets so much better with coolant. Cheers, Pierre

[@oxtoolco]

Hi Pierre, For light cuts with a sharp wheel no coolant is fine. You are right that in general coolant produces better finishes. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom

[@bryans5150]

Change the shot because it's pretty cool...I think you're pretty cool Tom. Thanx for keeping the vids coming, a truly great teacher and mentor

[@chrisburbank6484]

Just wanted to point out that the intermittent cut on the cylinder tends to generate heat only in the contact spot , tending to warp things around while the heat is still in it. So cooling the part down between cuts helps accuracy a bunch. Watched a foreman destroy a blank punch for part of a clutch. it was about a foot in diameter , every time the wheel contacted the punch it would swell up in that spot and cut even harder on the next rotation in the same spot. Don't think he even knew how he had wrecked it. but there was a gob of clearance in one spot.

[@tobyw9573]

Won't the taper on the mandrel be transferred to the work when it is pressed on?

[@markjohnson9884]

Tom, How does rotation of the part being ground matter on finish.

[@chuckphilpot7756]

That blue molly though 😂

[@Tadesan]

When you remove the mandrel; have you generated a half thou taper on the part? (Possibly a nice feature)

[@11kenpo]

Excellent info on the grinding process. Years ago I came across the Atco grinder attachment base. Mine is missing the motor, pullys and centers. I see after watching this video, how useful this tool can be. Would it be possible for you to send me some info from your unit on the motor and any possible sources to find a comparable one. Would be a great help. Thanks Tom.👍

[@eduardorosales1959]

Nice stuff. Isn't the most critical setup the parallel of the manfrel and the line of travel? Not the touching of two circles on the very top, as they will touch allways tangent. If mandrel out of parallel from travel line, you will get a cone. Or I'm wrong?

[@oxtoolco]

Yes the mandrel needs to be parallel to the travel of the machine. In this case the grinding was to remove nicks and produce a better finish on the hard part. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Nice setup.

[@alexanderhowa9707]

He Tom. Where did you get that container for the blue moly?

[@jasonburns1407]

Hi tom can you adjust the angle to cut a tapered shaft or make sure its dead parallel?

[@oxtoolco]

Hi Jason, Its usually the other way around. Trying to not cut a taper. Turning it on the magnet should not effect the taper. There is a small adjuster on the tailstock end of the centers used to get taper out. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom

[@patrickroeill8746]

Comment about Rob Renz had me LMAO

[@stefanstamatov7725]

but how it runs true when its perfect id is in contact with tapered od of the mandrel?only one end of the id is full contact with od of the mandrel,the other side is loose.am i missing something?

[@calinguga]

the taper is low enough that, with the blow on the anvil, you get good contact all across the bushing

[@roborob767]

Nope.. wont be concentric on the small end of mandrel but won't necessarily be loose either. If you heat it up it could spin on ya.

[@chuckphilpot7756]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't mounting on a taper ruin the concentricity between the bore and the O.D.? Or at minimum create a taper on what you are grinding from the loose end wobbling about.

[@calinguga]

this has been discussed in the comments. the answer is no.

[@hulkaplasta6558]

sabes como rectificar aluminio?

[@jbkltc4469]

can somebody explain to me why a round bored part would sit perfectly concentric on that tapered shaft? couldn't it sit off? or does it not matter in this case if inner and outer diameter end up not being true to each other?

[@dennyskerb4992]

Jörn, I believe he said a half thousand across (I'm guessing) six inches. Couple of tenths, perhaps the tapping would seat it enough on the shaft.

[@RGSABloke]

Jörn Bucklitsch yes, I was thinking the same thing, probably because I am old, slow and stupid which requires more of an explanation. And yet it looks like it is running totally parallel to the tapered mandrel, go figure!! Regards. Joe.

[@ProtoSimTechnologies]

I had this exact same thought. I'm guessing the taper isn't extreme enough to make one end of the bushing "off" a bit.

[@Phantomthecat]

Jörn Bucklitsch the mandrill will touch each end of the bushing - it's only a couple of tenths across the length of the bush, and when fitting it to the mandrill it is an interference fit on the larger end - by that couple of tenths, so the small end will still be touching the bore.

[@jbkltc4469]

alright thx for claryfying

[@fabioth283]

Bearings of spindle is ok?a lot of noise

[@terrythompson5815]

Why didn’t you apply some dycome to the OD before starting your grind?

[@PhilippeTardy]

Hello, when I was working in the watchmaking I did the same for the finishing of some tools on a lathe. To improve the finishing I put the diamente paste on the grindstone. Sorry for the quality of my English which is a Google translation.

[@markfryer9880]

No sweat, Philippe, I have read far far worse from supposed native English speakers be they from America, Canada, UK or Australia, New Zealand. Your comment was easy to read and understand by comparison.

[@PhilippeTardy]

Mark Fryer salut, j'ai écrit mon commentaire en français et Google me l'a traduit.

[@oxtoolco]

Hi Philppe, I understand what you said. I have not tried this method. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom

[@loftsatsympaticodotc]

bonjour Philippe, Est-ce que vous travailler au Québec... ou dans un autre lieu dans la francophonie? Parce que, si vous etes pas loins de Montréal- bienvenue. Cherchez "Machineco Montreal" en Google. Nous avons plusieurs rectifieuses en stock.

[@PhilippeTardy]

@@loftsatsympaticodotc Salut, je suis en Suisse.

[@nimishprasad]

Does ATCO have a website? I'm in India and unable to find their products here. This will be very helpful to me. TIA!

[@sto2779]

How to do inner diameter grinding?

[@raveenabegam1176]

I want making this machine at home please you can tell me how I can do

[@eddiekulp1241]

Use an expanding tapered arbor more concentric

[@martyscncgarage5275]

I'm surprised moving the part closer to the center of the wheel made that much difference in the finish. Why is that?

[@petemclinc]

I believe the wheel is more stable at a bottom tangent.

[@rickyreynolds4090]

Most of the time this happen`s because the operator slowed the feed in the center of the wheel while dressing the wheel.

[@calinguga]

i was about to ask the same thing, i'd think the two tangent spinning discs would behave exactly the same edit: tom says in a comment that he's not sure how it works either

[@calinguga]

@@rickyreynolds4090 i think you answered a different question

[@kenh8334]

If you're not directly above the part, it will either try to climb the part or chatter depending which side you're off.

[@sajidsk116]

coolant ?

[@hpekristiansen]

When you put a tapered shaft into a cylindrical hole, will it not just get stuck mostly in one end? -The other end will be loose which means that the shaft and hole can be non-concentric!? (I do not know anything about machining)

[@calinguga]

as other comments that you didn't read say, the taper is low enough that you get a good fit all across the bushing

[@peteferguson7024]

Lazy... ??? What does that make the rest of us :) Nice demonstration, Thanks.

[@garyrhodes7089]

Hey tom when will we see the Myford grinder in use ? thanks for grate content Gary

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

I don't see any grating.

[@johnptc]

why does left right position affect surface finish. it appears that the geometry would be unchanged as the wheel will always contact normal to the parts surface ??? nice vid :)

[@RobB_VK6ES]

to minimise the reaction forces. Since the centers are floating any excessive radial forces will cause the mandrel to bounce around.

[@johnptc]

so less bouncing vertical then off vertical ?? for safety should be at least center or left of center so it doesnt get sucked in by the wheel.

[@oxtoolco]

Hey John, Good question. I don't have a good theoretical answer as to why. Its just one of the knobs you can turn to change the output. Best, Tom

[@johnptc]

:)

[@maxhammick948]

The 'strobing' of the sparks is really evident when you play this frame by frame (, and . when the video is paused)

[@davidwillard7334]

LET'S SEE !! YOU MAKE UP !! A CYLINDRICAL !! GRINDER !!

[@samueltaylor4989]

That dog and drive screw is throwing the mandrel out of balance, that is why it’s wobbling.

[@tomeyssen9674]

Yes, that is definitely the cause...get catch.

[@tomeyssen9674]

Good catch that is.

[@ExtantFrodo2]

This was obvious from the pulse of sparks being totally in sync with the rotation? I should think a strobe that was triggered by a Hall sensor on the dog drive plate would help distinguish whether the syncronicity was due to the "out of balance" cause by using a dog from syncronicity that was simply due to that part of the part coming around each cycle by remounting at a different orientation and seeing if the timing was the same.

[@calinguga]

if that were the case, the wobbling would be more pronounced near the drive end than near the tailstock. i think the forces here are low enough to minimize that, but then again, we're talking tenths.

[@kundeleczek1]

@@ExtantFrodo2 Nice idea. I don't think that the bushing can move. It is on tapered shaft.

[@MS-gh1ep]

nice video..please take 'safety' in consideration also..

[@dimooonz]

конусность никак не регулируется?

[@feelingluckyduck373]

I know that you're supposed to lube the centers, I just haven't pieced out why?

[@Godshole]

Those fixed centers don't spin with the work so they would rub metal (static center) on metal (spinning shaft). Much friction and heat and galling without high pressure lube to stop it.

[@feelingluckyduck373]

Ohhh... OK, not all centers are live centers. Do you do this to live centers too, or do I see people do out of habit?

[@Godshole]

On a good live center, in a tail stock for example, I don't think you would need it un less the part was run 'off center' in any way, because then it would be 'hinging' as it rotated. Like when you turn a taper by offsetting the tail stock. then both ends would need lube, tail stock and Dog driven end in the chuck on a center even though the center is turning with the work it will be hinging as it rotates. Keith Fenner gets into it a bit making the shafts for Steam wagon HO..

[@feelingluckyduck373]

Thanks

[@insaneeast]

if you wanted best finish u must offset wheel from center of job slightly on your right side ..

[@randomdude1786]

you always got some good stuff tom if you ground stuff like that on your lathe you'd get a thousand replies about what a bad boy you are and that moly grease sticks to your liver better than anything else I love the stuff I sleep with a package of camshaft assembly lube under my pillow

[@6milesup]

Eyeballcentric. That is usually my method too.

[@6milesup]

I would have made a counterweight to offset the screw in the dog. That will eliminate the out of balance issues.

[@imtheonevanhalen1557]

The contact no contact at the wheel is obviously run-out.....know how complex it can be tracking it down? Put the object on dead centers FIRST, and then suspect your rig there. Dry grinding anything is a bad idea.....the wheel WILL load and transfer odd even contact to the shaft. I worked at a transmission factory for a few years out of high-school using 40's and 50's tech, and those old beasts would drive you nuts sometimes....J&L Tracer lathes, Warner Swasey turret machines. But when everything was set, those old beasts could kick out amazing production. A maintenance guy told me once that they would leak sawdust if it was part of the machine

[@terrythompson5815]

You shouldn’t have to remove that much material off of a finished bushing. Didn’t your check your arbor fo run out first? Also use a felt pin to color your part so you can watch for cleanup easier.

[@iantaylor5579]

Tom, what's happened to the Myford MG12 cylinder grinder ?

[@grandpacocky7618]

Why don't you blue it?

[@DSCKy]

What color is it now? Punchline to a very old joke. :)

[@grahameblankley3813]

Use a China graph blue pencil.

[@peroduanippa]

I would use coolant, but I guess you are doing a demo without for better viewing.

[@wlliamspatterson6240]

great content always! but dude..your hands are awfully close to that spinning meat shredder. complacency costs.

[@calinguga]

that's no meat shredder, it wouldn't catch your finger. at most it will burn it if you leave it on long enough (which is not long at all ti be fair)

[@davestambaugh7282]

The taper adjustment on this thing is a bad design. If you use a standard taper center drill to center your part you will fight keeping the taper out. If you do not want to readjust the taper after every pass you always have to use bell or radius center. If you do not you will just be chasing your tail if you are trying to keep taper with in a tenth.

[@oxtoolco]

Hi Dave, I agree. The best are lapped internal centers and spherical support centers. A kinematic seat arrangement. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom

[@toddk.5873]

Speaking like a true arm chair machinist with old worn out equipment & just watching a video of your buddy "ROBRENZ" truing up your machinists level frame with his .000001" electronic dial indicator, I couldn't help thinking that it would be nice to counter balance the drive dog. Maybe if you run one of his precision stones over the surface, you might see some chatter. Just saying. Ha Ha