CYMBALS! CYMBALS! CYMBALS! Bonzoleum's Part 1

[@travisabshire7435]

Dude when he starts counting ripples... I felt so much better about myself

[@toddmorrissey8372]

I watch your early(ish) stuff frequently. The "cymbals cymbals", and your "Vintage drum buying stories". Never gets old.

[@brent3760]

Lol! The Jazzy Snobby guys! So true! That's why George is so great! He could swing better than literally most, but is absolutely NOT a snob!

[@Trommelmann1]

The crowed out there is ready to hear all of your really fantastic sounding cymbals !

[@TaffyRaphie]

Just bought a new drum kit today (Customized Ludwig Rockers) and I had the choice of Meinl Streamers for a ride and hats, or original Sabian B8 Plus from when they first started making them, for a crash and hats. I went with the Sabians. good choice? don't know if either choice is worth any money.

[@jimflys2]

That 505 18" sounds SO much like my 18 pst7 18". Love that cymbal. Got 19" coming in a couple days.!!

[@bonzoleum]

@samdrumbeat They're thinner cymbals. They're made of nickelsilver (88% Copper & 12% Nickel). Some of the later Ludwig Paiste cymbals (they'll say Standard on them) are B8 alloy. Overall they're thin dark & trashy. They are also softer; you'll see denting in the cymbal usually at the bellhole, on the bell & at the edge.

[@SpinGold357]

Also it has an embossed etching at 6 o'clock that reads " PAISTE 2002" and directly under it is the serial number 2497h9. It looks old and the shiny protective coating has worn away completely on the top, but the bottom side is shiny as new. I would love to know what year its from, and if theres any other bottom other than heavy that i can use. Love you videos, watching them feels like im there hanging out with you! I appreciate any help you could give....thanks

[@Gretschnut]

Great stuff! I'm basically a Zildjian/Instanbul AGOG guy, but like you, have owned a bit of everything. However, I've owned only 1 Paiste cymbal. In the late 70s I was up at Bill Crowden;s Drums Unlimited trying to find the" perfect ride cymbal." I had brought along several of my crashes in order to find a ride that would blend with and compliment them. After driving Bill nuts for over an hour playing every ride in the place while banging the shite our of my crashes, he said "alright, alright, hold on a minute!" He went into the back room and emerged a couple minutes later with a Paiste 602 20" ride cymbal. He said that he had been holding it for Vernell Fournier, but hadn't heard back from him in 6 months. I splang, splanga langed it for about 15 seconds, paid the man his money and left with that baby before he could change his mind. That cymbal was my primary ride from 1979 until 2006. Gave it to my "then" son-in-law. Dearly wish I hadn't.

[@angelacevedo2112]

really nice i just getting started in getting older and more expesive cymbals i just picked up a 22 inch pang with 6 factory rivets it sounds great

[@bonzoleum]

@TaffyRaphie The Sabian's are probably SABIAN PRO? Those in my opinion were really good B8 alloy cymbals (by Sabian Zildjian B8 standards). A brilliant finish to them, right? If I recall there were 3 Sabian B8 alloy lines: the had the B8, B8 something (maybe Plus) and then the B8 PRO. Or maybe they were just called PRO-I forget!!!

[@ccmarshall1094]

What do you know about the 'Armand' series? I have an opportunity to purchase a 10" splash but have never heard of that particular series...Didn't know where they "fit in" in the pecking order of Planet Z's all the way through to the the A Avedis' and the K Constantinople's.

[@bonzoleum]

Hi CC- Armands would be considered a step above regular Avedis Zildjians.

[@robwestndrumr7648]

Terry! Is a black label 2002 22", stamp in metal n ink, ride in which GC describes as great cond a good deal for $255? Also what years did they do both stamps? From Germany? Sorry for all the questions but u paiste professor 😁

[@bonzoleum]

Yes- I’d say grab it!

[@privatejimmy5861]

Love cymbals. Obsessed with them.. Paiste Guy, but Zildjian guy prior at a very young age.. And Ufip..lol ..

[@samdrumbeat]

What do you know about the Ludwig "made by Paiste" Cymbals? I see quite a few on Ebay and was wondering what they sounded like or what Paiste's were they closest to in sound and thickness.

[@joehart9458]

thanks for all the cymbal lessons love all your videos ,

[@robertdemaree6666]

I wanted to ask you I picked up a Ludwig snare supro imperial lugs Chicago badge no serial number what year would it be

[@bonzoleum]

Sorry-I don't how I missed that in your post..I believe it's from 1992. Of course you can pair it with any other cymbal to see if you like the sound (whether B8 or B20 whatever), but I would recommend a heavier B8 alloy cymbal. You could also use that cymbal as a bottom as well.. A 505, 2002, Dimensions, 802, 802 Plus, 2000, 3000 would work nicely..

[@joerico9461]

What do you use to clean them well not just them any of your cymbals in general

[@shonnyno]

Hi, can you upload some examples of hand cymbals? its very hard to find good hand cymbals. thanks.

[@ddrum1978]

I have a question? If I just want to mic my drums without recording, just for practice through headphones or a PA system. What all do I need? Does mixers come with compression and reverb or enough processing to get a decent drum sound. I found a Behringer XENYX X2442 mixer and Cad mic's at a good price. It says it has compression and reverb. Im new to micing drums I just dont know what all I need. or who to ask, I can tell by your videos you been There Done That when it comes to drums.

[@DrummerForChrist100]

U counted the ripples on all your sound edge hi hats?

[@vegasmarc21]

Terry. I need your advice. I'm looking for a ride cymbal and as I'm writing, I see a 22 inch concert band ride which looks clean with no cracks or keyholing. He is asking $120. Also, available is a 20 inch A Zildjian medium ride for $100 no keyholing or cracks....I know you have to hear them because all cymbals sound different, but for an all around cymbal, since you mentioned "concert" cymbals....which would be your best guess as to a more versatile cymbal for classic rock to fusion between these 2 cymbals? Also would it be weird to have a concert band ride.... Can you describe what to expect as far as bell sound and riding the bow sound (lower darker like a K or a higher ping sound). Thanks Terry.

[@bonzoleum]

Hi HT- Try the 22" Concert Band!

[@vegasmarc21]

@@bonzoleum hi Terry I ended up with Zildjian a medium 20-inch ride.it sounds good when I'm playing the drums.I just heard and played on a 20in concert band ride here in a shop near by I probably should have gone with a 22-inch concert band.

[@ddrum1978]

Bonzoleum great videos man, Im glad I found someone with a passion or obsession over drums like I do lol. I have a question, Im going to buy two Paiste 2002 crashes 18'' 19'' or 18'' 20'' I dont know if I should go with 2002 Thin or just the 2002 crash. Is 2002 thin too thin, I know cymbals sound different under Mic's or from a distance. I dont like crashes to heavy, Im hoping 1 of these make a good crash/ride. What would you buy if you was me, You have a lot of experience in Paiste.

[@SpinGold357]

Hi Terry, my name is Dave and Im a Led head and a Bonzo freak just like you. I reached a point in my 10 yrs of drums where Im slowly investing in professional level cymbals, particularly 2002's. A buddy of mine gave me a 14" Heavy Top Hat, and im looking around for the bottom. But what i dont know is how to read the serial numbers and also what kind of bottom hat would be compatible with the top i have. I know its vintage because it has a 6 digit serial. Any help would be great, first 2 #'s are

[@charliesgoodtonightinithe]

Terry, Any thoughts on a '74 505 Medium 18 crash. Were they made thinner than the ones in the 80s

[@bonzoleum]

I'm not certain about that- but probably, but not by much I think. I haven't seen or played more than a handful of the black label 505s, but I have the black label 404s vs the brown label. I'll say this: the B8 alloy used in the early days of the 2002s seemed to be very soft, and when the 404 and 505 came out, it seems that softer B8 was used in those lines too. You'll often see bending/denting around/at the bells and bellholes.. If you can get the weight of the 18" black label MEDIUM I'll try to get weights of any green label 18" MEDIUMS. I had one but don't have it anymore!

[@DavidMcmenemy]

I love old Zildjians. I still like the new stuff too, but they just don't compare to the older stuff IMO. Watch a clip of say, Vinnie, playing 20 years ago compared to now and you'll hear the difference in cymbal sound.

[@tparker2095]

Hi Terry, a couple years back I was collecting vintage zildjian cymbals off ebay. I didnt really know much about vintage cymbals but I still somewhat knew what I was doing. I ordered a 16" vintage zildjian crash that looked fine to me. When it arrived, I played and tested it out. But upon first hit, it had no sound. Not sure what I would call the sound, but its not really a sound at all. The cymbal looks a bit older then my others. Any input on why the cymbal might not give any sound? Thanks.

[@bonzoleum]

TK-STORMIE 78 I think the cymbal may have been exposed to relatively high heat. The 'tempering' (I think that's what they call it) has been compromised.

[@elithepitbulldog2209]

Terry, thoughts on first run constantinoples compared to the ones today. My 22 medium thin from the late 90s sounds better than the medium thin hi/ lows of today. The flatter the profile the better I like them. Seems you agree with flatter sounding better, or is it me. Why do they keep messing up good cymbals?

[@bonzoleum]

I'm not really qualified to answer re: the Constantinoples, but I do think the flatter the profile as you get less bell effect. I prefer flatter profiled cymbals. I used to use Zildjian French and Viennese Symphonics as crashes. They have flatter profiles than the dome-ier regular Zildjians..

[@elithepitbulldog2209]

By the way I really dig your videos. I am also a serious cymbalholic and it is an illness. My recent buys were the 15" Kerope hats and the 20" and 22" rides. Also a flatter profile but not very loud. That's good in a way as you can really lay into them without destroying your ears. I do like the Agop 30th anniversary rides better however as they have more sounds as in different tone coming out of them.Keep the videos coming and thanks again....

[@bonzoleum]

@Maidenfan4497 I wish I could be more helpful-I never really got into the Sigs. There is a Paiste cymbal discussion forum-have you been on it?

[@bradc32]

how's your back?..i remember being young and dumb using "old" 15"s for crashes

[@bonzoleum]

Hi Brad- back good now. Yes, using 22" Trans-stamps as bash rides..

[@charliesgoodtonightinithe]

Terry, I'm considering two zildjian 70s 15 hats online. One is 1270 and 1360 grams, not much differential. The other is 1221 and 1400. Any preference. My two sons love the vids. Thank you. Andrew

[@bonzoleum]

Andrew Karnavas Thanks Andrew! That's a tight differential. With Zildjians they can really sound different pair to pair..Are they on Ebay?

[@charliesgoodtonightinithe]

bonzoleum Your zildjian hollow label 15 hats sound great. Any idea what the weights are.

[@bonzoleum]

That's a good question-I'll get the weights.

[@SpinGold357]

Awesome i knew right away you were the guy to ask. Much appreciated, keep up the good work. My band is called SpinGold, and there are 2 videos of Whole Lotta Love we recorded at two different shows on my channel. Watch the one from "Vlado's music and arts fest 2012" (the outdoor stage setup) Good speakers or headphones make it sound much better. Thank you again!

[@jtkennedy182]

hello! ive got a question for you seeing youre a paiste nut! can you give me as much information as you can (to your knowledge) about the Paiste Signature Rough Ride 20"? thanks :D

[@ledzepfilm]

Very nice man!

[@TaffyRaphie]

@bonzoleum these say b8 PLUS right on em. they're really dirty or just not shiny, and the guy said he didn't clean cuz they'd lose value that way (maybe cuz the brand marks would come off?).

[@bonzoleum]

@ddrum1978 I'd recommend to go hear them if you can. Of course you can go to the site, or go to my cymbal.com-I think that's what it's called.. For a crash ride I'd go for the 20 (18 20 combo). You could go 18 CRASH and 20 MEDIUM or try 18 THIN 20 CRASH.. What style do you usually play?

[@charliesgoodtonightinithe]

What do you think of Paiste Signatures. You don't talk too much about them.

[@robwestndrumr7648]

Fast forwarding to the Paistes....

[@broggsey]

i get much more excited by zildjian cymbals especially jazzy sounding ones, the contantinople, k's and armands are some of my favourites but oddly enough i think bonhams sound is one of the most impressive things in the universe i dont really understand this contradiction, in fact with my little jazz kit and light zild im like the opposite of bonham except the way i tune my toms, ive noticed jason bonham uses zildjians, random macy wieght disk underneath a mic stand, whats that about

[@endurofoxz9kixass22xwatchd6]

john roy contradiction is your set jazz Bonham's set rock

[@PeterCRissKISSgod]

love your vids man! i learn so much!

[@lorenzmuller3542]

Your thoughts on Formula 602 80's crashes? I just bought a 18" one.

[@bonzoleum]

Lorenz Müller Great cymbals! Try the reissues-they're outstanding!

[@lorenzmuller3542]

bonzoleum are there any record they are on?

[@bonzoleum]

I'm not aware of any yet. If you can, go to a store and try them. Paiste also has soundfiles on their site.

[@tparker2095]

Late Response, But Phil Collin's used 602's on early Genesis Records.

[@bonzoleum]

They're nice cymbals, I just much prefer the B8 and B20 alloy cymbals.

[@bonzoleum]

I'll check out the vids!

[@beatlesfan1071]

What are your thoughts on Zildjian's zbt series

[@bonzoleum]

Not as bad as they used to be, but compared to Paiste lower line B8 stuff, ZBT is very inferior. Everybody's B8 is inferior, except for Meinl's, which is good but not quite the same quality in my opinion. Zildjian has never really got the hang of getting the most out of B8 alloy. I think they made a pretty serious run at it in the early 80s with the original AMIR line, but it was clear they didn't know how to make it sound good. They then stopped really trying, realizing that offering bad-sounding but inexpensive B8 cymbals still sold very well to folks who didn't know (parents buying their kids drums). That added greatly to their bottom line, as until then Zildjian didn't have low end cymbals. They also got the upshot of saying in their ads "Yeah, we use B8 in our low line stuff", which to the uninformed implies that B8 is an inferior alloy that "Paiste tries to pass off as a good alloy to make cymbals". I'm certain that incensed Paiste.. In fact, I'm certain (my opinion), that when Paiste stopped using B20 in '94 when the discontinued the 602s, it was meant as a "F*ck you and your B20 alloy" shot to Zildjian. They obviously had huge faith the the new proprietary alloy (B12/B15ish), but I felt they very much cut their nose off to spite their face by eliminating the B20 alloy entirely. My opinion was they should have just thinned out the 602 offerings (eg. was it essential to offer 13" 602 MEDIUM RIDEs?), but not get out of the B20 game altogether. As far as Paiste's dominance on the B8 alloy, one of the many suggestions I have for Erik Paiste is to mount a campaign called specifically "PAISTE KNOWS B8": T-shirts, ads, perhaps a 'Pepsi Challenge' type campaign to blind test even the lower line PST 5 stuff against Zildjian's ZBT.. Paiste has truly mastered the B8 alloy. Zildjian (and other companies) may get around to maximizing the sonic potential of it, but until then Paiste is the master of it..

[@beatlesfan1071]

So my follow up question is I'm looking for a not too pricey but good set of cymbals . What do you suggest ?

[@bonzoleum]

I'd say grab the Paiste PST 7 set. For 398 bucks you'll get a pair of 14 hats, a 16 and 18 crash and a 20 ride. The have thin (Light), regular and Heavy models. I'd say grab the regular. I own some of them-they're terrific!

[@bonzoleum]

Is it a Zildjian?

[@bonzoleum]

Is it a 14"?

[@jtkennedy182]

@bonzoleum i havent, ill definitely check it out! thanks!

[@bonzoleum]

@SpagsJippy Thanks for the nice words!

[@sticksbass]

ha, i think i may have a prob myself bc im still kicking myself for selling 2 zilds which ea had drilled out cracks.. no doubt id just get worse if i joined cymbal aholics anom..

[@metalYES12]

Those cymbals you were tlaking about in 69 were paiste Giant beats im almost definate

[@SpinGold357]

Yes it is a 14", top heavy hat

[@charliesgoodtonightinithe]

Yes on eBay

[@Thorum13]

With all this talk of personal stash and bowls...brb. Ok, much better.

[@thenecropolis_ov_former_lo3396]

I'm a sabian and wuhan gal