Cynthia Erivo's Elphaba Changed My Mind About Wicked - A Sceptic's Reaction

[@fathommusicnz]

What did you think of Wicked?

[@steventramitz4752]

I read, and loved, the book when it first came out, but had never seen the musical. I went to see the movie opening day mainly to see how they had handled the adaptation. I have to say that I REALLY enjoyed the score, especially Ms. Erivo's performance. Being an old guy I find I can have issues with understanding higher pitched singers, and that happened a few times here with Ariana Grande (my problem, no fault of hers) to the point where I had to look up the score when I got home. Cynthia Erivo's voice just really came through and owned the movie

[@fathommusicnz]

@@steventramitz4752 I'm reading the book at the moment! It's fantastic.

[@gabriellemesmo]

It is PERFECT to me.

[@Mark-tb3dw]

I agree with you 100%. My wife and I saw the stage production. We left there just entertained. I decided to see the movie, and it had a total different effect on me. I was embarrassed to have tears running down my face when the lights in the studio came back up. I didn't expect that emotional reaction. The movie captured so much more of the characters. You could relate with them more. I could really relate to Elphaba's good soul. I just didn't feel that seeing it live. This is really great production. Well worth going to see it. And let's not us forget, she sang that song harness, and wired, flying through the studio, flipping upside-down etc. Truly amazing!

[@madknac2978]

I have seen the musical 5 (or 6?) times. It is by far my favorite musical. I never saw the original cast, but had pretty much memorized the cast album. Idina and Kristen were amazing. But Ari and Cynthia in particular, took it to a whole new level. Cynthia pulled back her voice for almost the whole movie to seem younger - yet never seemed to be acting youth. So when we get her full voice in that battle cry - born of pain, betrayal, and courage - it really hits. And her choices emotionally throughout the movie were understated but moving. I still cry when even just listening to "I'm not that girl". As amazing as the originals were, even if they'd been the right age to do the film, I don't think they could have given us those unforgettable intimate moments that we got, with Cynthia in particular. That blend between film and theatre, musical theatre and pop. So long way of saying, I'm completely with you.

[@Fiona-West]

this was really well written, and i totally agree! the movie does an amazing job of blending musical theater and cinema, and it’s incredible to witness

[@rogieherman6202]

The play did not develop Elpheba's struggle. Cynthia mad us feel her pain. I cried watching g the movie but never cried watching the play. The director gave us this gift of connecting the emotions to the story

[@kaylabeshears6485]

The friendship between Elphaba and Glinda was more believable, too. No One Mourns the Wicked and the Ozdust Ballroom scene hit me far more deeply by being able to see the emotional nuances in their faces.

[@TECfan1]

Rarely does a movie adaptation actually do way better than it's source material, and they have done it with Wicked! Making it longer than the play allowed the characters and story to breath and grow organically!

[@taterbug1234]

As a gay black man, Cynthia’s version of Defying Gravity just hits differently. No disrespect to Idina Menzel, she is the OG and deserves respect, but hearing Cynthia Erivo in that role just gave me all the feels… feelings that I did not get from hearing the original Broadway cast album. The words mean more because the actress singing them can relate to the character’s struggle. She is “other” in reality. People keep criticizing Cynthia for getting emotional on the press tour, but if these people would pause and think about the themes of this movie, they’d get it. I certainly do.

[@mi-moon_]

Exactly !

[@kaylabeshears6485]

The additional moment they added to Defying Gravity in the movie had me spellbound and sobbing in the theater. My inner child needed that!

[@sasakatha7514]

Idina Menzel is jewish. She knows, too.

[@kristensadana8097]

I already commented this above, but I felt like the moment where it's clear that Glinda isn't coming, Elphaba seemed to be familiar with it. Like she'd been similarly let down before and was hoping for better, but also expecting it and able to move on as a result. I thought perhaps Cynthia's experiences as a black woman informed this moment in particular.

[@tomektalk4671]

I like the unlimited section they added at the end. It’s not messy at all. In that moment she realizes and feels her true potential. She needs to find herself in that way before making her declaration to everyone. It totally works musically as well. It’s just when you listen to something a million times one way it can be hard to hear it differently.

[@RyanMichero]

Totally agree. Erivo's phenomenal. My favorite part is how she sings "So if you care to find me look to the western sky." Just knocks me out.

[@lindaquach5736]

This defying gravity by Cynthia was so sensational and dramatic that you just leave awe struck. I felt like I had flown along with her but at the same time felt her pain & alienation from her bellow battle cry! It's just awesome. The drum at the very end was perfect too! I have seen the movie twice and plan to see it again. I am so obsessed with it. I had seen the play twice and couldn't remember much of it. I just knew I liked it but couldn't remember much. Now the movie is truly unforgettable! I keep replaying the scenes in my head. Is anybody obsessed?

[@Fiona-West]

yes, i’ve been feeling the EXACT same way. i love this new obsession, this movie is a passion project of extremely talented actors/dancers/musicians and crew that created a lasting legacy that does the musical justice.

[@MaxWell-kg6dx]

While Cynthia's astounding performance surely helped to convert you, I think the difference of hearing the songs separately on an album and experiencing Defying Gravity unfold in context, as the climax of a full narrative arc, shouldn't be underestimated. When you've followed Elphie through her hopes, her struggles, her first time feeling acknowledged as a human being by Glinda, her fight for justice, and the crushing betrayal and realization she goes through, only to become villefied by all of Oz... when you go all the way through that up until this point, this song just hits different.

[@havinghehs]

Yup. I was always meh on the show and then I saw it on stage. The second she sang “it’s me” I burst into tears and I’ve been obsessed ever since

[@almond_jellii]

I felt the same as you! I had a friend who's dad was in the orchestra to Wicked when it was in the city. She loved it, I didn't get to see it, but she would always play the soundtrack. I even tried watching a few slime tutorials. Didn't like the pacing at all and I thought the relationships came out of nowhere. I LOVE the movie version. It takes all the space to let moments breathe. I found myself crying at a couple points in the movie! It honestly surprised me since I felt like "This musical is both too long and going too fast for me" with the stage version. My favorite change is Nessa having agency for herself, but we'll see what they end up doing for part 2.

[@clarem8784]

I tend to think the difference is in singing for film versus the theater. I think of Ariana's interviews talking about how she needed to train with a voice trainer in singing Opera before she auditioned because it's so different from what she's used to singing... If Idina & Kristin were singing to the cheap seats everyday, and then went in to do the recording for the soundtrack... That will show in their style. I agree that the singing in the movie was beautiful. I think they're really lovely in different ways. All of these women are gifted with incredible voices.

[@kristensadana8097]

I can't stop thinking about the moment where Elphaba realizes that Glinda isn't coming with her, the range of emotions on her face leading to the acceptance. It felt, to me at least, that this moment felt familiar to the character, that she had felt this before, hoped it wouldn't happen but also expected it to. I feel like this moment in particular was fantastic.

[@tammyrodell1927]

Loved it, loved your perspective, and I had no idea how much or why I loved this version. I think it was because we got to KNOW Elphaba on film. Your explanation added to that. Cool! Up your followers by one!

[@briannapinkney4966]

I absolutely agree with you. I haven’t seen it live, but the cast recording never made me cry or give me chills. Ariana Grande and especially Cynthia….perfection

[@SendInTheClowns-GG]

Really loved your analysis! The panting is because she's really flying and singing at the same time. If you're interested she talks about in interviews and the different geniuses who had to record it live also have interviews on Dolby & Sohom.

[@chrisdelisle3954]

Never read the book nor saw the show and I’m not a musician. Loved the movie. My favorite parts were when they sang together. That “third” voice gave me chills. Kind of like when John and Paul would sing together.

[@4dultw1thj0b]

Tbh I have been saying for ages that the Lennon/McCartney parallels with Elphaba and Glinda have been there if you know what I mean lol

[@Dhyatt61]

OMG YES Cynthia Erivo!!!! She is THE Elphaba! I've seen the play on stage five times but I have to say, NOBODY beats Cynthia. She has set the bar and it is very high.

[@sasakatha7514]

Thats a matter of taste. Great you like her, she is fantastic, but for me THE Elphaba is someone else.

[@Miscellaneous_Minx]

Idina and Kristen will always be my Elphaba and Glinda but this production was absolutely incredible I need MORE OF CYNTHIA AND ARIANA Edit: 8:46 Oh, we have For many years Edit2: Your voice is very interesting itself, I can hear almost multiple accents coming through at separate points (Aussie, Brit, American) it’s beautifully blended and unique

[@KneeAches]

Oh, and thanks Nancy! I could t believe here you were talking about a movie. Perfect timing.

[@Huntress59]

I loved both versions. I was more touched by Cynthia’s Defying Gravity . I feel the breakdown and the beats created by the score also aid in its power. This perhaps could be done on stage but it definitely works better for film .

[@gjford1951]

I love the movie thoroughly, especially as an reminder of what the golden age of Hollywood musicals was all about. "This is what you can aspire to:" something that undeniably could not be achieved in your community theater, your backyard (Hey, Judy and Mickey! Let's put on a show!) or even on a Broadway stage. Nor could it be put on by people who were not trained, disciplined, experienced and committed. This production took the audience to school. (Cynthia took us to church.) You can look and listen to this production and learn about what collaboration and shared vision look like. And what it means to create meaningful work that is not mired in cynicism or despair. This accomplishment harks back to Harold Arlen and lyricist "Yip" Harburg, composers who sang us through the Great Depression ("Brother can you spare a dime.") and who wrote the music and lyrics for the 1939 film of The Wizard of Oz. ("We're out of the woods. We're out of the dark. We're out of the night. Step into the sun. Step into the light. March up to that gate and bid it open.") This movie is a contradiction to both to the times we are living in and to the way popular culture has tended to reflect these times. It resists ("I'd sooner buy defying gravity.")

[@KneeAches]

The scenes with the two woman together made the movie for me. The vocals sounded processed to me (not that I am any expert) and I find it distracting and disappointing. But as you point out, that is the way music is made now so…..I really liked the movie.

[@anndruh]

It’s obvious you’re not an expert. They sang LIVE.

[@elliotvermette]

I don`t watch many movies but I`ve listened to a lot of sound tracks and musicals. Defying Gravity has been done by many including talent shows like BGT and there young, there old and some are just brilliant. Enjoyed this video.

[@jamesonmagnus]

I’m a fan of both and I agree with you. It’s going to get a lot of push back but honestly the 2024 version is just so much better. Partly, I think the composition makes a major difference as well as having to sing to the back of the room. It allows for more nuances.

[@HuntingViolets]

I've listened to the OC recording a bunch of times, love Idina and Kristin, watched the first half of a recording of the play. Was really looking forward to the movie and really enjoyed it also. Edit: Oh, also read the book, but that was a long time ago, before it was a musical (I think).

[@yvonnemurphy7506]

U got me..subscribed. yay Dad

[@tankdesign1]

Will you do more analysis of the other wicked songs ?????

[@KnowledgeSeeker78491]

I feel like you’re my kindred spirit when it comes to this😂😂😂

[@brycepattenmusic]

Where did you see the stage show? I saw it at the civic many years ago, and then at sky city a couple of years ago - the one at the civic was amazing. Sky city was quite low budget/amateur and didn't really serve the show very well. I thought the movie was excellent though, a very good telling of the story. Interesting to compare Cynthia and Idina side by side, I can hear what you mean straight away

[@fathommusicnz]

I saw it at the Civic! I really liked the stage design for the production.

[@anumuthusamy8065]

Yup, totally agree with you. Saw the Broadway show, enjoyed it but found it unremarkable and messy, couldn’t remember most songs other than popular and defying gravity. But the movie! Wow, each song came to life and I am obsessed. Been watching different versions of the Broadway songs, appreciating them more, but the movie version hits like no other, and it’s because of the nuances in their voices and the emotions that comes through, but other things add to the reason - the close ups reveal so much more emotion (the acting was impeccable), the costuming, the choreography, the settings, the natural light (Broadway show is very dark), it all makes it come to life in the best way. ❤

[@mandmm3906]

I find it weird that there are these comparisons between Idina and Cynthia. Of course, a movie that has a fully developed character with all of the filming, recording, adaption of the voice , cinematography, etc., will hit differently than something that was raw , nuanced and live. Live is completely unpredictable. Live theater is a different animal and the characters rely on impressions that they make on the audience as opposed to something much more in depth. There is a reason why wicked as a musical is imprinted into musical history. There is only one reason why anyone cared about wicked as a movie…. The musical score along with the Preternatural talents of Idina and Kristen are really the DNA of Wicked. The remake is astonishing and incredibly noteworthy but we only care because we have the blueprint and the original . All Elphabas are “remakes” and adaptations . Cynthia did her justice and the filmmakers , special effects artists and sound crew made something new and spectacular !

[@sasakatha7514]

I'm in love with the german Musical cast. For me, they were the best, and Willemijn Verkaik was the perfect Elphie. I saw it 25 times on stage and cried and laught a lot. The movie disappointed be, to be honest. I didn't feel much by watching it. I love the german cast to much.

[@aBeatleFan4ever]

I enjoyed hearing your take on the German cast. If you could just fly us all to Germany so we could see it... we might agree.

[@fathommusicnz]

Just had a listen - she's pretty fantastic as well!

[@sasakatha7514]

@aBeatleFan4ever I am sorry I can't ;-) and Wicked the Musical left germany in 2011 - still sad about it. In germany the wizard of Oz is not very well known. And so Wicked was only shown from 2007-2011 :(

[@sasakatha7514]

@fathommusicnz I'm happy you like her! She played Elphaba not only in germany, also in the netherlands, on west end and on Broadway. She is our voice for Elsa in Frozen - just like Idina in US. And in the Wicked movie sie sing Idinas part in the german version.

[@kayko6229]

I teared up a little during this and the end of the film, but I believe a few tweaks could’ve made the sequence a lot more emotional. One thing you mention is the break in the build up and that for sure calms some of feeling. The interruption and maybe the set/way this part is shot, at least to me, wasn’t as powerful as it could have been. And maybe that’s alright.

[@tactus72]

It is a very subjective thing, so whenever you like one singer performance over another, that’s totally OK. I think however, and I know you’re aware of this. The singing technique when you sing in the theater versus the studio is quite different. Even though the original defying gravity was done in the studio it was recorded using the technique for singing on stage. Idina Menzel interpretation is much bigger and more outwardly pronounced, not much room for true subtlety, which makes it much more challenging to convey intimacy. Where is in movie, studio singing, just look at La La Land, and imagine if that was on a stage you’d never be able to hear anything, based on the recording. Cynthia Erivo was given much more tools because as the audience were only a few feet from her so we could see all that nuance and subtleness. Also, Cynthia is a master at listening, so she knew how to blend with Ariana Grande very well. She is very agile when it comes to switching from a more subtle, even modern pop technique, to classic Broadway belts, and she uses that power very well.

[@aBeatleFan4ever]

Another lovely video. Thanks, Nancy. I'd click the subscribe button eight thousand times a day... if I could.

[@juliannehannes11]

Look up Brandi Chavonne Massey Defying Gravity. I love Cynthia but Brandi's Defying Gravity is legendary, listen to how she belts free, its eargasmic.

[@juliannehannes11]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXi9epiJo8mKiMUsi=1Q6tLg2LLar7kGfg

[@fathommusicnz]

Phewwww her timbre is amazing!

[@HuntingViolets]

Interesting.

[@hshelby8489]

🤎👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👍🏾

[@alanclayton9277]

well at this point in time, though always interested in a fathom post, i'm not interested in wicked. BUT, salutary lesson, I used to laugh at la la land because of it's silly title and people doing a dance routine in a traffic snarl up. now I don't laugh at la la land. i don't laugh at emily stone in that yellow dress and i don't laugh at city of stars.

[@KneeAches]

People sing live. It can be altered after.

[@aBeatleFan4ever]

Every time I hear the word "Wicked"... it makes me think of Chris Isaak's 1989 song "Wicked Game". Would love to see you do a video on that song. And the video is also a classic. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJWQonxsZ8yBgK8

[@KneeAches]

“Live” singing is being altered. I hope it hasn’t.

[@PoYi-fi1zt]

She is black…

[@WolfieTM]

There’s a typo in your vid’s title. *Skeptic, not sceptic. Spelling & grammar-check are your friends.

[@EdricHsu]

Sceptic is the British English spelling.

[@HuntingViolets]

There is a preference for "skeptic" in American English (that is to say, it is more popular, not more correct), and a preference for "sceptic" in British English. Either is correct. Dictionaries and search engines are also our friends.

[@aBeatleFan4ever]

The British spelling (sceptic) makes me think of a septic tank (which is not a good thing). ; )