D&D Racism: Becoming Halfling an Interview with Mark Hines

[@trinkschokolade]

Fantastic interview! Sometimes YTs random recommendations find actual gold ❤ Thank you very much!

[@rickeymariu1]

Thank you for the positivity. We get so little of it here.

[@TheIrishRev]

I can practically smell this comment section.

[@rickeymariu1]

Yeah, it sucks to see auch toxic behavior.

[@paavohirn3728]

Thanks for the fascinating discussion!

[@rickeymariu1]

Thank you for the positivity

[@paavohirn3728]

Sure thing!

[@MoraqVos]

Your audio is only working on the left side.

[@rickeymariu1]

Yeah, idk why.

[@DandDisability]

I fixed it for next week's video!

[@TheMaggiebeast]

interesting perspective. I enjoy people who think outside the box.

[@harpernerys7345]

15:30 Glad somebody is talking about it. Elder Scrolls has a strangely ever-present group of fans (at least here on YT) who can't stop talking about The Protocols through 'find and replace' Jew with Altmer. Don't get me wrong some of them are extremely funny if you imagine it's a joke made in good faith. But it's a real shame to ruin a setting with such rich historical, mythical, and philosophical conflicts between the races with Daily Stormer circle jerks. I'll just say it's strange that seemingly 1/4 of the TES fandom is very passionate about the esotericism and lore, 1/4 love how racist it is, and another 1/4 chooses to hate on the first group rather than the second. The last 1/4 are the casuals but I didn't count them cuz I'm one of the lore-heads :P Good conversation overall, I'm definitely going to contact Mr. Hines and see if I can't get a copy of his paper. I'm excited to share it with my group and have some equally interesting conversations.

[@elodny]

Love this video! Very interesting discussion 🤩

[@DandDisability]

Thanks! It wasn't my most popular. Maybe you'll like my other academic ones too!

[@NicholsonNeisler-fz3gi]

Next paper: Are Evil Orcs Really Evil?

[@michaelpcoffee]

It's a shame to see such a worthy game dragged into modern dysfunctional political discourse.

[@The1Ryu]

The fundamental problem with this guy's take is that if what exists in fiction is rooted in the real world how is it that we have created countless things in fiction that don't exist in the real world. You might worm your way to dragons via real world animals, but not something like a beholder. Time was hat social things in fiction were as well made completely from the imagination, but conspiracy-brained people like this guy bend interpretation until they make erroneous connections. Also, if you want to talk to the troglodytes just explain that to the other players and wait for your turn. Being in initiative doesn't wire your character's mouth shut.

[@harpernerys7345]

Fiction is about real-life, but also about fiction. Which seems like a circular definition until you accept that we exist in the prime material plane with seemingly no connection to Limbo. Everything we ever think is rooted entirely in reality. What makes Beholders uniquely separate from real world influences? I see a skull; I've seen snails' eye stalks; I've been told stories of creatures that can wield fire and lighting like the volcano and cloud. I have imagined a Beholder. Coming up with things in D&D doesn't mean you've separated yourself from cultural influences like some post-postmodern robot, we have the same imagination as pre-modern people. The expression of a created work is always AND its reception is always determined by what is. I haven't even watched the video yet, nor have I ever heard an opinion of racism in D&D that I agree with. There is a fundamental problem with your rationale. And say you make a new rationale so you can maintain the same opinion; it'll be even more flawed because it's not a fundamental problem with someone else's opinion, but rather an excuse of an excuse to justify the way that opinion made you feel.

[@MoraqVos]

If fantasy races are able to interbreed and create half-elves, half-orcs, etc, then they are not different species, and the word 'race' would actually be correct. But fantasy races are not perceived as being a single species, it's weird.

[@theravenousrabbit3671]

Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals are not the same species but can interbreed, creating fertile offspring. This is the same thing - closely related species, simple as that.

[@solsystem1342]

Species isn't defined by ability to interbreed. Famously modern humans irl frequently carry Neanderthal and/or denesovin dna. This doesn't mean the species were the same though. It's a complex question but I think given that species can have inherent magical properties while others do not in dnd heavily implies they are different species and radically different biologies (esspecially when you consider that they don't share a common origin like other hominid species irl did.

[@MoraqVos]

@@solsystem1342 Species: a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The biological species concept states that species are reproductively isolated entities - that is, they breed within themselves but not with other species. So yeah, the definition of 'species' says that Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals are the same species. I actually went to a lecture by an anthropologist, and he told me so, but it is a debate among scientist. Those who consider Neanderthals to be a different species cite differences in bone structures as an argument which seems rather weak. A recent estimate suggests that at least 16% of all bird species interbreed with each other in the wild, so the term species seems very loose at the moment. But to your point that dnd races seem to be radically different and without a common origin, how are they able to interbreed biologically (as in without needing spells)?

[@NicholsonNeisler-fz3gi]

@@MoraqVos There are plenty of examples of interbreeding between species - take the mule for example

[@Professor_Pink]

​@@solsystem1342No, that is one of the defining features of a species.

[@Numberi]

We are all dumber for having watched this video.

[@preiman7908]

I sincerely doubt anyone could tell the difference in your case

[@davegoehrig7674]

Oh dear God, Mark Hines is not only ignorant of the history of the game, but is also willfully so as an academic grift. GAZ10 The Orcs of Thar by Bruce Heard TSR 1988 literally negates his thesis entirely... critical role is a poor representation of how people "actually" play the game

[@OceanusHelios]

Literary fictional aliens. Nothing more or less. The issue is superimposing our world and the loaded word "race" to describe the variety of fictional beings. Gygax put Humans above the others because first and foremost he was about Game Balance. Elves et al had longevity and additional powers. To offset that he was worried that Humans would be unplayed and irrelevent. So he nerfed level advancement for Elves and others. He couldn't reconcile world building in which humans were so inferior or unspecial and elves were so superior that the humans couldn't exist or have significance. For Race in D&D I never ever conflate it with the same definition and meaning of race in the real world. These are fictional archetypes and serve as flavor and mythology. That's it. That's all they are is intentional mythological creatures. The word "race" is used as it comes from literature in a time where that would be the most apt and understood word for that time for people who saw the world a certain way. Nowadays though? Using race to describe elves versus humans ignores basic science. Magic ignores basic science and so does mythology. That's the feautre, not the bug. If we use the word race, yes, it might be cringe. But the race isn't the point. The point is that there are archetypes to counter and define what makes the heroes heroic. D&D is fairly innocent. They are not saying, "Oh well you are an Asian human so you get a +1 to your mathematics attribute. Oh and you are Black so you get a +1 Cha, +1 Atheletics." That is cringe. That isn't done. I'm glad it isn't. Humans are just humans. Elves are just elves. Orcs are orcs. If people want to flip the script at their tables, that is their prerogative. But to keep it fun, it is BEST to say that these are mythical archetypes. That is a mouthful, but it must be stated that "race isn't race" in D&D. Race is mythical or heroic archetype and fictional archetype.

[@Professor_Pink]

You forget we're the one who created the fictional characters silly.

[@Bancheis]

Race isn't race in the real world either. It is ethnicity. We are all part of the same human race. You don't refer to a German Shepherd and a Golden Retriever as different races of dogs. They are different breeds. We are closer to different breeds than different races as human beings. This entire discussion is trying to explain something that needs no explanation. Do they concern themselves with the type of aliens they are killing in a game about aliens who are invading your world? Does Link care what make and model the pots are he destroys in random citizens houses? In a game, NPCs, items, and anything interactive is designed for generally specific functions. A game like D&D would be absolutely boring if there was nothing to threaten and challenge you or to destroy, so of course there must be "enemies" or "bad guys". No one wins if the game is bogged down by people having a debate over why one is evil and one isn't. Anyone who has played D&D with at least 5 people knows that just trying to get through one TURN of combat is a slog and takes up a huge amount of time. If all of a sudden we had to go around asking Orcs what their pronouns were and if they would ask for world peace after winning the beauty pageant, then ... well actually that would be an interesting game perhaps, but ultimately you would be playing with a bunch of women who want to knit sweaters for and make friends with the monsters (Hah ha! Stereotypes strike again!). Look... the DM has total control over the narrative of the game you play. Just because there are stereotypes that give them an idea of what the "race" of the NPCs are in the game does NOT mean they all have to be the same. Stereotypes exist for a reason, and that is because many of us have cultural and ethnic habits or features that dominate people from certain cultural and ethic backgrounds. As an Italian, I literally cannot get away from people joking about pizza and pasta. But I actually do like pizza and pasta. Does that make them wrong for assuming, or right because they nailed it? Neither. Because I know Italians that don't like those things. But MANY of us do. The stereotypes we have for people are in real life are just like they are used in games. Guidelines for what to expect, but a pleasant surprise when you have your expectations averted.

[@pierluigi1412]

Lol at +1 Cha

[@Professor_Pink]

@@Bancheis Ummm, you're confusing race and species bud.

[@jackskelington7377]

Jesus f****** Christ, it's a goddamn game. Playing with this dude has to be f****** boring.

[@matteoboldizzoni9870]

at minute 1:14 I already understood thi guy has wasted his life and has a mental problem.

[@13necrosoul]

Why not just agree to disagree, and respect his differing opinions?

[@Vizual_Racing]

Oh boy this is getting ratioed so bad hahahah.

[@jd980]

Who cares? Why would you ever ask this? You truly have too much free time to waste.

[@DoctorTurdmidget]

Welcome to the world of academia.

[@michaelpcoffee]

The operative question is: Do you support using government force to implement racial discrimination? All the rest is academic.

[@rickeymariu1]

The video says nothing about this question. It's not calling for censorship. You're bringing in an entirely separate argument.

[@DandDisability]

Nice try. That's not what this video is about.

[@michaelpcoffee]

@@DandDisability Then; it doesn't matter.

[@preiman7908]

@@michaelpcoffeeit mattered enough for you to set up a straw man and look like a fool when it got torn down immediately

[@michaelpcoffee]

@@preiman7908 I asked a question. That isn't a strawman. Nevermind: Your refusal to answer is answer enough.

[@ThinkingManCounter]

I can only imagine how tiresome it would be to try to actually play a D&D game with people like this. Everyone is free to run their table however they like, but I'd be out of this group before session zero was over.

[@rickeymariu1]

That's a lovely assumption. Fun fact, it's no different than when anyone else plays.

[@ThinkingManCounter]

@@rickeymariu1 No assumptions made by me.

[@preiman7908]

⁠You might need to look up the definition of the word assumption, as you clearly don't know what it means. I'm assuming it's just one of a great many things that you don't know the meaning of.

[@ThinkingManCounter]

@@preiman7908 Indeed, but let's offer some help for the poor confused person who said I made an assumption. assumption (n): something that you accept as true, although you have no proof supposition (n): an idea that something may be true, although it is not certain

[@twilightgardenspresentatio6384]

No but a number of grognards are.

[@timothyatwood1]

I have never seen such weakness in men.

[@6Massacre6Girl6]

I'm so certain you're the absolute paragon of masculinity. Get a grip 💀

[@solsystem1342]

Yeah, a lot of you are pretty butt hurt in the comments. It's a shame critiquing something is met with such childish insults nowadays🤭

[@ataraxxx]

@@solsystem1342 "Why won't you respect my dense, contrived, politically-charged opinions??"

[@blake-bj1tz]

Liches dont care about your pronous.

[@matunusdonnerhammer3423]

Really stupid example. Lich is not a race. Becoming a lich is a choice that involves evil rituals that likely kill people in the process.