D&D Wizards in 2022 | Web DM | TTRPG | D&D

Audio issues are fixed around 4:30
We're taking a look at WIZARDS in 2022 - what is the state of our favorite caster player class in Dungeons and Dragons, what it might look like for wizards in One D&D, and how Jim Davis' thoughts on them have changed over the years and supplements. Join us!
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[@lancepowell7037]

You got me thinking that my ideal core class feature for the Wizard class to separate it out from other full casters would be creating and evolving a signature spell as you level up.

[@muddlewait8844]

The best D&D moments I’ve had in 40 years of play came from this approach. In the relevant (3.5) campaign, I was one of the few living wizards (the only one I knew of) in a very low-magic campaign. I only got spells from finding them, so I had very limited spell selection and each one was like a precious child to me. The second-best moment for me came when a party member was kidnapped and the party was engaged in a chase through city streets and over rooftops chasing the kidnappers. We were wildly desperate to stop them, especially my character, and in the course of the chase, out of preparations, he began to cast spells *directly from his spellbook*. Including Lightning Bolt, his only area-effect damage spell. We didn’t catch them. It was awful, but man, it made the story feel like it mattered. The best moment came when our cleric died (nobly sacrificing himself after a long period without his cleric powers). My character had, quite a while back, found a scroll of Limited Wish, a ridiculously lucky break, and had hoarded it for many, many sessions because it was almost certainly the only remaining copy of the spell left in the entire world. He was obviously saving it to finally scribe into his book when he reached the right level. But he couldn’t just refuse to try to save his friend. There was a 25% chance (1-5 on the d20) of failing the roll to use the scroll to cast Raise Dead on the cleric, the scroll being burned regardless, of course, but possibly burned for absolutely nothing. The whole table was leaned in over the die when I rolled. Most stressful, exciting roll I’ve ever made. Not epic, maybe, but deeply meaningful. I can still see the 15 on the die. And yes, the cleric got his powers back.

[@vitorveras9723]

I like the idea of sorcerers beeing mystical warriors, instead of a fullcaster. They would fight up front, but the attacks and movement would be magical in someway. The Chandrian from Kingkiller Chronicles is from i get inspiration for that concept And congrats for the work, Jim. Your videos reach some brazilians fans o/

[@ericpeterson8732]

I hear you, Jim, but that was frustrating for me. I loved it when they allowed you to prep an open slot and that lead us here. I do think the 2 spells per level has made it too easy to get the spells you want without horse-trading with other wizards or deciphering an old tome. Like an old book entitled "Under the Sea" where it describes a long passed wizard's underwater exploration, his experience with underwater dangers and a water breathing spell somewhere in the middle. A bit of lore, maybe an incomplete map, and a new spell. All in an old book that most people can't read because it's in a dead language.

[@reallunacy]

I'd love to go through quests like that for more spells, but my GM very rarely allows me to track down spells so if we didn't get spells the way we do now I'd be screwed, and that's playing an Order of the Scribes.

[@Dack.howaboutyou]

@@reallunacy Simple & straight forward in theory, though maybe "easier said than done"; my 2c would be to ask your GM in private about the idea of throwing more spell-loot/spell-quest-objective-type adventure content in, and if he is, maybe then bring it to the group together. I can see any number of ways that seeking out old stuff (knowledge, spells, items etc) could make for great plot devices, content hooks and campaign content in general for any and all types of characters and/or players... it's just a matter of the GM being willing to take the time to either figure out what each of the players is interested in, or somehow ask each of them to submit ideas for their players' and/or PCs' goals... in order to tailor the encounters [and subsequent 'loot'] to those types of things once in a while [if not all the time].

[@Tharrel]

I find wizards aren’t really interested in getting extra spells. They have enough spells as is, with 2 per level, and wizards I’ve played with / run for were just not interested. Even when I gave them another wizards spellbook, they couldn’t be bothered to copy the spells.

[@Dack.howaboutyou]

@@Tharrel Don't "give" them the "normal" spells that 5th ed. allows them to just "get free each level" then? maybe. Make it a bit harder somehow... maybe only up to LvL 2 or 3, then they have to come up with some RP way for getting any more spells, even something simple for them to continue to get their 2 free new ones (like just saying "i go shopping, or i go to the local school/trainer"), allow them to get more that are cool, better, customizable or something. I know this might make some people completely rebel and freak out, like; "spells are all i have!" or something but you could offer some slight rebalance of the wizards other really weak spots (i'm looking at their hp, armor/weapon options in particular, but an extra skill prof. might not be amiss depending how much int they have, their int bonus... etc. Maybe give them an extra hp per level for half their int modifier rounded down, reprisenting their mental strength... or just give them max hp for their level instead of having to roll or take the middle-road... or somewhere in between. maybe offer them to get trained in metamagic point use instead of new spell purchase. Not as many as a sorc ofc, and they could still add more spells later, but it'd take more time/money/adventure/whatever to get both. There are tons of options if you talk to the group about it. btw i see the Sorc being able to also choose to take on some wizard-like training to their instinctual/bloodline magical control... assuming they put in the time and have the requirements... i know they're trying to get away from req.'s but having a minimum of maybe 13 int to multiclass or take abilities from wizard class and mash them into your Sorc... doesn't seem too far out of line to me). There are TONS of spells from previous versions of official D&D that are just not in official 5e + plenty of 3rd party & homebrew spells all over the net [and peoples' imaginations]. _You probably can't do something like this mid-campaign but it might make for a good topic to bring up during a "session zero" if someone is interested in an arcane magic/spell-heavy class. Additionally you could discuss just exactly how everyone envisions magic working; is it channeled through them in a certain way? is it wrestled with mentally? is it formulaic; such that they must do key patterns to unlock it? Etc.

[@Tharrel]

@@Dack.howaboutyou Yes, but I don't want to nerf them. Combine the lack of spells at level up, with miltitudes of rituals will make it an incentive to look for spells and will be quite balanced.

[@BragginRitesTV]

Woah, it's been a while since I've watched an episode from you guys but I have to say, you're looking great Jim!

[@rbmore3]

Lore wizard, is the most fun you can have with a 5e wiz, can be broken for sure but man is it fun, you feel like the smart guy who learns things. Wish they had taken a second go at it instead of scrapping it, and handing off the good ideas to other subclassed one at a time.

[@knife9185]

I do like this idea 'Reasons to adventure' . I never thought of motivating the wizard would be easier if they had fewer spells learned per level.

[@dillonwyatt8144]

Here's a couple ideas for creating a stronger identity for Wizards from other spell casters. Idea 1: Major & Minor schools that are impactful. When creating a wizard ( and potentially at some level up points ) choose a major field of study ( school of magic ) and 2 minor fields of study. You may only have spells in that field of study. At each level you choose a work-in-progress from your major school. This is 1 spell above your current casting limit. If you expend a hit-die or other similar resource, you may cast that spell at its normal level. Thus a 3rd level evocation wizard could begin work on "fireball" before anyone else; at 4th they have two 3rd level spell choices. Idea 2: Change Sorcerer and Wizard. Give meta-magics to wizards since this is supposed to be their forte. In trade sorcerers are no longer bound by the "per day" limit on casting. This change on the sorcerer side might be a bit too powerful but I'd start here and find a limiting principal as needed. Currently the spell list size is a big one. Perhaps remove things like scroll usage ( make the same as any fighter ). Perhaps say that the most powerful spells still have a "total number of times equal to XYZ" ( proficiency, hit-dice, modifier, other ). Instantly it makes wizards more inline with their "scholarly masters of the intricacies" and re-enforces the "this is just natural for me" theme of sorcerers. Personally I don't care for either spell caster. The above changes would make me more inclined to play one.

[@Lcirex]

This stream made me think about how pathfinder 2e reworked their save or suck spells so that even on a failure the spell still inconveniences the target.

[@baronaatista]

A bladesinger can relatively easily have an AC of 21, and then layer mirror image + blur overtop, with shield for backup. Then, with the changes in Tashas you can make one regular melee attack, then cast green flame blade or booming blade, and still have a bonus action to do a number of things; 3rd melee attack with two weapon fighting, or you could drop blur… and ONLY have 21 AC with shield and mirror image… and use BA for flaming sphere or animate objects. If you want to be more defensive you could use the ability to cast a cantrip in place of an attack, and instead of casting GFB / BB you could cast resistance or blade ward. Bladesinger is good. Low HP is a little tough, but just try to hit that thing.

[@SaintElsewhere333]

Apollonius of Tyana was so well known for his protective talismans for cities that alexander the great hired him to create one for alexandria. His talismans were usually carved on precious or semi precious stones. Each city having a totem stone with a spell unique to each city would create a sort of pilgrimage for the arcane student

[@andrewhalverson6974]

I've been toying with the idea that instead of class spell lists, each spell has one or more "tags" that speak to who can cast it. I like that there could be major tags like divine, arcane, or primal. But other stories might be more specific like healing, fire, infernal, illusion, shadow, etc. I think it would make spell selection more customizable and also more alive. Wizards could have a feature where they can pick spells from "any tag except...".

[@derekdonahue3356]

You asking about the difference between Sorcerer and Wizard reminded me that I’ve actually thought about it before. Sorcerer should have more health and use Hit Dice instead of Sorcery Points. Then give Wizards Metamagic. What I’ve thought so far for those changes would take way more words to explain and I feel this is already a pretty long comment.

[@Dack.howaboutyou]

I have a similar vision, but it involves even larger changes; like giving the Wizard access to ALL spells, they just will have a lot of special requirements to cast spells the farther from their normal "wheelhouse" they are. Also taking the Wiz, Sorc and Warlock and combining them into Magician class or something so they can pick how much each type of feature from each of those classes they want to be using in their PC... long story; i'll post more detail elsewhere.

[@kennethhall7177]

Wizards special thing will be the ability to cast rituals from spellbound without having them prepared. While other casters must have the ritual prepared. Mages Group will probably get " "Arcane recovery". Basically the ability to replenish spell slots other than through a long rest. (Arcane Recovery, Pact Magic short rest, Sorcery Points Flexible Casting). Those are my expectations.

[@scotttyler2140]

Give us a masked wrestler grappling and striking only class!! Something like a monk with levels from barbarian. And how to role play a character like that! Love the channel!!!

[@hardhead6871]

I tell my players who have been playing since 2e, just look at past book for spells that are not in 5e and adjust those spells to fit 5e for homebrew spells.

[@tawumpas]

Video Begins @3:00 ish. Gotta love technology 🥴

[@demiurgusgodofform8589]

I think my favorite version of what a wizard should be was in the webnovel 'Warlock in the Magus World', where wizards, also called Magus or mages condensed mana into spherical shells that surrounded their souls(?) and those shells acted as frameworks that allowed for the casting of higher tier spells without drawbacks or a backlash. Wizards level of power and expertise were typically based on how many shells, referred to as circles, they had condensed, with the weakest 0-Circle Mage/Wizard Apprentices only able to cast cantrips, and the 9th Circle Wizards/Mages able to cast spells that could destroy whole countries in an instant. What's more, different spell matrices could be added into the mana shells during their condensation, which was how wizards would further specialize into different fields, like Fire Mage, Frost Mage, Necromancer, War Mage Shield Mage, and so on. This would determine what subtype of wizard you are, and also dictate what kinds of pros and cons you would gain as a result. For instance, a Fire Mage might be able to cast some fire-type spells for reduced or no cost, or cast at the same cost, but with boosted attributes, like increased range, damage, or area of effect. In the cases of War Casters and Shield Mages, they may be able to keep spells that require concentration passively active at all times, like Mage Armor and Shield. Inversely, other spells, like water and ice spells in the case of a Fire Mage, would need to be cast at double their base cost or more, or just can't be cast at all.

[@Tanglangfa]

Maybe like this: The wizards thing is choice. Lots of spells and slots. The sorcerer’s thing is meta magic. Fewer slots but increase the points they already greatly. Warlock is maximized spells. Same slots and spell amount as sorcerer but always maxed. Bard gets smaller list and slots but can choose from two spell lists. Pally gets smite. Ranger gets martial/spell mix. Druid gets wild shapes/spell mix.

[@caseysomers9700]

I could see WOTC making megamagics into feats like they did with fighting styles. Could be interesting but I feel that they would have to develop subclasses strongly to make wizards/sorceress feel different

[@armorclasshero2103]

We learned that was a bad idea in 3.5

[@sambro6657]

Emma and Jim looking fabulous as always

[@Dack.howaboutyou]

I wrote a long reply to Steve Smith below, in these comments, but i basically want wiz to get more use out of the int attribute somehow+allow the big 3 arcane-casters (WARL,Wiz,Sorc) to custom mix/mash-up (balanced within reason) the types of interactions with magic that they want, upon leveling up beyond 1st level or something. I wrote several pages of notes about these concepts already since watching this video, but i won't bore you all here with them. Suffice to say, extra power comes at extra costs, and those costs encourage more epic adventuring, so I see it as win-win.

[@baronaatista]

Oh also. I think OneDnD is going to see *major* changes to the Warlock. Simplicity and standardization has been a common theme with many of the changes we’ve seen to how things work. Warlock spellcasting is entirely aberrant in 5e. I expect to see that change in OneDnD. How do you make them a little unique, but still fitting with the rest of the system? Make them a half caster. Which is far and away the most popular Warlock? Hexblade. Prediction; Warlock will be a half-caster. It will have limited access to the arcane list; I’d guess, evocation, conjuration, necromancy and enchantment. As well as invocations; hopefully extra attack is just a feature and not an invocation, depending. Riskier prediction; it will be Intelligence based. It’s just better for the overall system. And weird to have the Wizard to be the only Intelligence spellcaster with access to the Arcane list, and everything else be Charisma.

[@michaellauer8181]

Yeah in your part at the end about Sorcerers I completely agree. It always bothered me that sorcerers have to use the VSM components of spells. They should be able to just do them all the time. (I know subtle spell exists but that has a cost and I don't think it should.)

[@SavantApostle]

Audio at 2.5 min

[@billylin8800]

Considering there’s 2-3 other arcane full casters(depending on how you rank warlock) I’d actually love to see wizard turned into a nearly pure utility-support caster, they DO have those reality warping spells that can reshape the state of play in an instant so why do they need to have all these incredible damaging spells too? They can keep their damage cantrips and a few of their more iconic spells but not enough to have wide damage versatility unless you take the offensive specialised subclass.

[@baronaatista]

Fuck me. It had not occurred to me that each of the class groups are going to get a common feature. Thinking of this, I’m reminded of Jeremy Crawford saying the Experts borrow class features from other… I’m not sure if he said ‘classes’ or ‘groups’…. Is extra attack the Warrior group feature? Is magical secrets the Mage group feature? Rangers borrow from the Warrior group and Bards from the Mage…?

[@SavantApostle]

The artist miss clicked on the texture file and put the owl skin on a bear model and said "Aha! Owlbears!"

[@DanSolo41]

If specialist schools = set of spells that you always have prepared (aka mastery), that would probably help the issue.

[@patient_6925]

I think pathfinder had a good idea with words of power, making spells more malleable but slightly less powerful. I think they were onto something but it needed more time in the oven

[@kurtoogle4576]

I want the OneD&D Wizard to have Arcana as a class feature, with expertise at higher levels, as well as the Calligrapher's tools for their spellbooks. Some spells, such as Detect Magic, should be class features as well.

[@DCVM93]

I disagree. I dont want every wizard to be operating on the same level of assumed knowledge.

[@ThePizapiza]

I always assumed the 2 spells per level come from the ongoing research of the wizard!

[@badmojo0777]

which is a grea tplac eot stsart but comes no wher enear enough versaitlity t set them apart form other classes.. the strenght of the Wizard shold be aquiring more spell s, thru spellbooks and scrolls. some DMs jsut dont do that

[@ThePizapiza]

@@badmojo0777 I completely agree! I also think they should have access to almost all the magics... the point about magical secrets makes alot of sense. Maybe wizards should be able to learn any spell they find, not just wizard spells?

[@popularopinion1]

*Wizard prepares circle, then summons a devil* "I've gathered you here to discuss the fundamentals of infernal cold. Tell me what I want to know, and I'll let you go. Otherwise you're welcome to rot here forever"

[@an8strengthkobold360]

I firmly believe wizard should get their choice between calligraphy and a language.

[@WittyUsername14]

No audio ._. EDIT: audio starts later on in the video

[@andrewduitsman3918]

I would love to see Wizards go back to opposed schools and then buff the effects of subclasses. I think this will require a decent generalist wizard subclass. This will let the Wizard shine out especially in the spells of their subclass especially compared to other casters.

[@egrettacaerulea]

Honestly, they should save Bladesinger, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, and Hexblade for 1dnd's 'PHB 2' and bundle them under the Bladesinger moniker as a half caster. edit: And with their new batching layout, it's easy to suppose they're designing 1dnd with ideas like this in mind. There's also a lot of open design space for new classes, especially assuming an even distribution of core subclasses. Which I plan to optimistically anticipate.

[@p4lskippee]

shout out to Emma for being the IT Wizard

[@TheElliephant89]

I'm playing a bladesinger and I'll be honest, it wouldn't work for me if our group didn't use rolled stats. I happened to role very well so it works out well. I have better AC in bladesong than our heavy armour wearing cleric, who is the tank of our party. I use the flexibility of having good AC to waste opportunity attacks and there are some good spells that work great for a bladesinger while they are mediocre for regular wizards.

[@schemage2210]

A wizard subclass on the creation of chimeras would be insanely awesome. To bad, it will never happen.

[@FlaminTubbyToast]

I suspect the biggest problem with wizards, and full casters in general, has to do with lore. I doubt that the community will get official fixes because most of the fixes that you suggest require implementing lore. At some point I’ll have to do a full write up as to the full list of changes that I’d like to make. However most of them have to do with how and when wizards and other full casters cast spells. I think that sorcerers should get a spell pool and sorcerer spells should have a higher variability in effect and specifications cause casting is less controlled/studied. (Example: fireballs AoE has a radio us of 3d6) Spellmaking could also change as a function making.

[@itsyagirlVofficial]

Yeah the biomancer monster creating wizard is definitely a missing archetype in 5e

[@EvelynNdenial]

give wizards meta-magic as something they have to pick during the long rest and sorcerers get to do metamagic on the fly and stack multiple on the same cast. for the wizard either make all casts of the spell have the metamagic, or turning one of their slots into a vancian kind of slot locking a spellslot to only be used for the one spell with the metamagic. it would reinforce that wizards know the fundamental mechanics of their spells and they can tinker with them with preparation.

[@notelliot70]

At some point they should be able to cast lower level spells as cantrips. They become more magical. Or spells they use often get better. Or maybe open up spell research so they can cast specific spells with metamagic effects they have researched and added to the spell

[@notelliot70]

They should be sitting around reading in down time or during rests. They should be riding their horse with a book in their hand, learning new things. Of course they could get Wild Magic effects because it's not smoothed out yet Yeah they could research a spell with metamagic effects but it'd be a higher level spell slot

[@patient_6925]

I want wizards to be more like dresden. I want them brewing potions, preparing rituals and crafting magic items.

[@TheRealFacemanguy]

That’s artificer

[@patient_6925]

@@TheRealFacemanguy No artificers not what im looking for. Its too limited in what items they can make

[@Trenell83]

wouldn't that be the herbalism kit abd using their rituals? crafting magic items that would be interesting.

[@patient_6925]

@@Trenell83 herbalism kit no. That would be alchemical kit or somethin like that. Rituals would stay the same ya. Potion brewing and magic item crafting dont have any well defined rules compared to pathfinder or 3.5. I want a wizard that can take an ordinary traveling cloak and with time and money make it give an armor bonus. Wizard play style should be all about knowing your enemy and preparing. The most dangerous wizard us a wizard thats had time to prepare potions, spells, scrolls and items.

[@jmartin4396]

I was always a fan of the old school rules where a Magic User had to roll in order to be able to learn a spell. Why can't there be spells out there that a wizard just can't learn?

[@Tharrel]

I think wizards should be able to cast all their non combat spells as ritual, or at least be able to change spell on short rest. The way it works right now there’s very little point on searching for extra spells.

[@mitchellwelch9135]

Plz record at full volume lol

[@ProvostZarakov]

I love that idea of the wizard being the master of magic where others just cast spells the wizard controls spells.

[@GreyfauxxGaming]

I'm pretty certain All casters will be prepared casters including Wizards, with their entire spell book open to them

[@joshuarichardson6529]

So.... Wizard: I keep my spells in a book. Sorcerer: I keep my spells in my head. Warlock: I keep my spells in a demon imp.

[@badmojo0777]

i see too many NEWER Dms assuming that a Wizard gets to pick 2 spells per level and... THATs IT! thats all ya get.... they fail to see how the strength of the wIZARD is aquiring more spells for their repertoire. its that versaility that should be the strength of the wizard. hell! most other casters get to choose their spells on a daily basis from a much larger list.

[@kennethhall7177]

PSA / FYI: Magus is latin, (pronounce "Mah-goose"). The plural Magi (pronounce "Mah-gee", like geese minus the "se".) in the Latin.

[@kailenmitchell8571]

I rather have more flexibility but balanced by chance of spell failure.

[@scholtzekevin]

I'm having really low volume on this video

[@Greybeardstavern]

Home rule we have is wizards can swap out their cantrips if they have them in their book. That’s where I would start in One D&D. I’ve always seen bards having to choose spells as they pick them up in their travels. Hence swapping them out at level change makes more sense. “I haven’t played Stairway to Heaven in years.” Hence it falls from there repertoire. Sorcerers spells I’ve always seen as those are the magics (superpowers) they were born with. So what I’m saying is letting other classes swap out their spells all willy nilly seriously waters down the studious, searching for the arcane, and versatile mastery over the weave of wizards.

[@stevesmith4600]

Wizarzds have the most game breaking mechanics in the game. And you want to give them more? Literally, it feels like you have some idea of a game in your head, and you want to play that game, and you're trying to force the square peg into the round hole thinking D&D is it, when it is not. I love you, Jim. You're very creative, interesting and instructive, but you're way off the reservation here.

[@Dack.howaboutyou]

Yes, more spells. Versatility is the "name of the wizard game", but that could come with high(er) costs, and sounds like it should, if you consider them game-breaking as-is in your games. Example: you might need to find/beg/borrow/steal/purchase many of the spells, and any spells that are outside the "normal magician schools" (arcane magic?) would need even more crazy extra stuff in order for them to be cast. What about additional spell components being required to balance out anything that is becoming a bit "broken"? *incoming wall of text below* i thought a lot about this, since watching this video, and have already written pages more in a .doc file elsewhere [which i'm still refining it to be as succinct & brief as possible]. Some of my ideas are: 1) to use what we have now but add the ability for all the big-3-arcane-magic-users (warlock, wizard, sorceror) to all use spells from all sources; immortal entities [gods, contract/pacts, nature/primal-stuff etc] but in order for them to do so, they would need a lot of extra prep, skill, time and/or materials. The extreme material/philosophical/time components required for wizards to do this coudl avoid "stepping on the toes" of classes that specialize in those types of things (druid, cleric, and even warlock or metamagic specialists) since they would have a much easier time of casting from their [albeit more limited] spell lists, than the wizard would... BUT a determined enough wizard COULD make it happen... somehow... at least once. E.g. Allow wizards with enough time, research, materials, willpower (int? can we make int actually do something more in 5e maybe please?), and the medium upon/through which they cast those spells that are not typically arcane/wizardly type spells. 2) You could have your magi / mage / magician use things like spell scrolls, engraving, tattoos, religious knowledge/props/special-locations, extremely rare/valuable spell components (some of which may always be consumed or have a limited number of uses depending on the particular material, amount, spell, game-balance, and whatever else) etc. 3) All this would be major motivation for wizards who want that sort of technical "i can spend years of downtime doing crunchy, grinding, research but then i can have a few interesting and uniquely "mine own" special tricks up my sleeves. Example would be needing a religious text or clerical spellbook along with some other source of magical energy tie to that deity/immortal entity, or else you can't cast that cleric spell as a wizard. Or maybe you need to be taught primal magic by a practicioner of it, then practice it yourself a bunch, and/or meditate an extra long time to prepare such a spell or spellscroll (single use version of a non-wizard spell that a wiz could cast), or maybe just extend the casting times into ritual range or beyond... i could go on and on with ideas for balance, but it all of course will depend on your particular situation/table/campaign/players. 4) I would like to see the 3 main arcane specialists (wizard, warlock & sorceror), even though they use different casting attributes, be able to take on some of the abilities of the other 2 of the 3 classes as they choose; swap some abilities in/out to make your magic user how you want it to be, but still be balanced. a)How do we make wizards' int be a bit more useful aside from just giving wizards the ability to eventually, with enough effort/prep/material, cast any spell? what if int was like an extra layer of magical... *umph*/power/strength. what if int was that little bit of extra active, conscious focus on your magical effect that made some sort of significant difference (like a +1 to resist DC, or they could use metamagic points equal to their int attribute stat bonus (only regained after long rest perhaps, or something else that basically would make it so b) pure sorcerors are more instinctual, unconsciously-magical casters that can still cast many magical effects faster, more intuitively, with little prep, but of course are more limited generally in their versatility... unless they chose to spend time working towards wizard-like studiousness or something (exact game mechanic to be worked out between you and your table). c) Warlocks, i imagine, have some of their powers channeled through them somewhat in the way that divine/primal casters (cleric/druid etc) might channel the power of the immortal being they are in contact with as they work their magic... and some abilities just granted for use whenever/at-will, again with that relatively "easy", "sign-here-to-suddenly/easily-receive-ultimate-power-contract" coming at the cost of versatility. _All this being said to show that there's a lot of potential to make more of a difference between how these arcane casters make their magical energy controlled and usable. AND to add another complex wrinkle to it all, why not allow these 3 "arcane magician classes" to basically start out with the premise of arcane magic founded upon one of these types of casting styles, but then as they move through PC- life/campaign-world etc. maybe they decide they would rather swap some amount of their standard magical ability for a roughly equal amount of standard magical ability that comes from using magic in the way of one of the other 2 arcane-primary-casters (through being trained, or meditation/research, increase of stats to a certain minimum perhaps; like having 13+ int so they can have that extra wizard spell-boost to save DC as they learn to blend their naturally instinctual, unconscious grasp of magical manipulation from being a sorceror with the conscious focus and precision that wizards cast spells using, or something) _ _I realize this sounds just like "why not just multi-class, but that's sort of the whole point isn't it; multi-classing isn't really solving the problem of wizards and int being just sort of "meh" currently in 5e. TLDR; i think it could be balanced, especially if you and your players at your table are into this type of major shift in the workings of magic and magical classes.(Which i think they honestly need, and agree with Jim Davis on his general "meh" assessment of them for 5e... and Lindybeige's 4e assessment of casters being nothing but magical glass cannons that just "go zap" in different ways and that's about all they do/did.) _ _ _Obviously this could get extremely complicated, but it could also just be simplified into having gold/loot spent at the spell component shop so you can begin your research and take spells that aren't normal spells for wizards... leaving out the need to go full, deep dive into the deep end of story, crusade, crunch and epic milk runs just so you can get your party arcane magic users their "fiddly bits" (as some might see it. though i personally like the idea, i understand not everyone wants more complexity in their fun downtime activities).

[@felixrivera895]

So the Wizard from levels 1-20 have a minimum of 44 spells known. Their maximum is as many spells as is on their spell list, and then any spells granted by the dm. With the new system coming in to simplify groups and archetypes in dnd, what if the those base 44 can be from any list? Wizards innovate and learn new spells, so when they level up they Invent whatever spell they want. Then when they find magic in the wild it has to be something someone else has added to their list of spells. Arcane spells are the examples of what standard Wizards learn and figure out.

[@SavantApostle]

Yea my dm never let me find spells, but I blame the modules for not explaining engaging with the PCs class. Also, wizards suck compared to other magic users and it should obviously be the other way around

[@kailenmitchell8571]

Not really a fan of Sorcerer or Warlock I feel like they should be sub class of Wizards. I also dislike how much magic has been creeping into the other classes. Im an old player though, 1ed player even.

[@SavantApostle]

I hate how preparing spells for the wizard sounds like vancian magic.

[@ericpeterson8732]

Did I hear you correctly? You WANT some chance for spell failure? And overcharge some effects? I think you are in the minority there, Jim. And you feel as though wizards should be able to do metamagic? But then, as you say, what about the sorcerers? In 3e, sorcerers got fewer spells but more slots. And because they were spontaneous casters, they didn't have to prepare specific spells for the slots they had, which granted sorcerers more flexibility than the wizard. And while sorcerers could take the metamagic feats, the wizards got them for free. Then 4e balanced everything into encounter and daily "powers". Same number, different flavor. And boring. So they went and made 5e. They decided that the spellcaster balance of 4e was good, so now every full caster gets the same number of spell slots. Oh, and now everyone else gets a limited pool of spells they can prepare to use their spell slots for. So by boosting the wizard with spontaneous casting and now the same number of spell slots, the sorcerer has nothing to distinguish itself from a wizard. Then you nerf the sorcerer's spell list by removing 20% of their spells by giving them a smaller spell list than the wizard. And you limit their spells known to the smallest number in the game. So they gave them exclusive use of metamagics. That is the ONLY thing a sorcerer can do that a wizard can't do BETTER. And now you want to take that away, too? Every design change they made in 5e took something away from the sorcerer. *Breathe* I understand where you are coming from. It is odd that the people who devote so much of their lives to the study of magic can't experiment with enhancing their spells. But then, what about the sorcerer? At least, it seems we are going back to the parity of spell lists, unless they "bard-restrict" certain schools. Maybe sorcerers should use blood magic. No components. And thematic spells that can be casted once per day without spell slots. Maybe then sorcerers could share their metamagic pudding with the wizard.

[@ericpeterson8732]

Oh, are we giving ideas? Mages should be able to detect magic at will. And possibly identify magic items. Yeah, that's stealing from the warlock, but who cares about them? They still get exclusive access to eldritch blast. And as mages, they would get the power, too. Call a magic sense or magic feelings.

[@joshuarichardson6529]

Detect Magic was a base Wizard ability in 4th edition. I believe it was an at-will utility power (now called cantrips).

[@badmojo0777]

One thing we know for certian, WOTC is lazy, if they cna solve a problem by giving spells instead of inventing mechianics... ther eya go, we cant even get a NON magicla Ranger or Barbarian for tha tmatter.

[@waycooljr.181]

Don't beat yourself up over this crap Jim, I've been watching this game from the very start. Gary & Dave were trying to build a great game and I loved it, but when WotC took it over I knew the game would always have lots of errors so they can sell newer edition. It's all a money game to them. Corporation suck.