DACs And Network Music Streamers: Here’s The Truth

[@bogroll1881]

Excellent advice this has been my hobby for over 40 years - the best advice is to get your speakers and amplification done first. My current power amp is a Krell KSA-50S (circa 1990) no reason a good amp can't last more than 33 years!

[@lukehuang8323]

Totally agree. Mine is Sherwood AD255R, 43 years old, still works like champ.

[@zombielandiii2711]

What type of sound signature it has?

[@vidFame]

I just bought a Bille Heaven 11 amp with an integrated DAC. Before that amp I was using a Chinese tube amp (Yaqin MC-100C) with a SMSL DO200 DAC. The integrated Billie amp with a lower rated DAC chip does actually sound much better than my previous combination - while using the same Bluesound Node streamer. I totally agree with your thesis!

[@a.grayman6349]

Thank you for the video. After decades in this hobby the only thing I would not recommend is going the integrated route with the amplifier. Unless you are willing to invest well above $1k for an amp, you are getting a built in mediocre DAC. I've heard it in system after system and it's really easy to hear. And then, there's no upgrade path.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I understand where you are coming from and to some extent I do agree, a higher end dac can make quite a big of a difference. With that said though, this video was aimed at people who are on a budget, obviously if you have unlimited funds then you can purchase what you like. I just think that with so many areas to optimise sometimes it’s better to spend the money on other parts of a system and then you know you are getting the best out of your equipment.

[@kevingest5452]

I think there is much more to be gained from having a separate DAC to keep the digital components away from the analog amplifier circuits than from eliminating the loss from the 12 inches if RCA cable, particularly if what you are worried about is the cables not being 'high end'" enough.

[@IronHorsey3]

Wiim Pro streamer and now the Wiim Pro+ with AKM dac chip $150 - 220.

[@mat.b.]

separates are always better

[@GeirRssaak]

As a Norwegian engineer i often cooperate with german engineers, and I will advice you to trust your ears ,and not buying snakeoil from hifi conmen!

[@yhonmontes]

I was just considering buying a streamer, and yes, you're right, just connecting my macbook air to my Cambridge dac into my Cambridge amp will expand the possibilities without expending more money unnecessarily. Thanks for the recommendation.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

No worries, thanks for watching.

[@adaboy4z]

I use a laptop dedicated for streaming only connected to a $100 SMSL dac into an amplifier. The sound is wonderful to my ears.

[@BrianGarside]

Integrated is fine if you want cheaper but not necessarily will give you better DAC sound quality performance by eliminating cables. Just buy some decent XLR cables and be done with it. The SQ will improve with separates by keeping the amp separate from the sensitive digital components will help more than avoiding cables.

[@PlaAwa]

bel canto?

[@rickmilam413]

Part of what you're describing is not at all limited to DACs and streamers re: pricing. I've been a high end dealer for almost 30 years. Doubling amplifier power will increase your output by 3db. So.. 20-40 3db, 200-400 3db, et., etc. I think the same kind of thing often applies to increasing your budget. So, $2k to 4k to 8k will often given you the same kind of level of improvement at each step.

[@Coneman3]

A British audiophile recommends spending about 3 times more when upgrading to hear a noticeable improvement. Perhaps his logic stems from this.

[@rickmilam413]

Very possibly true. I've been a high end dealer for almost 30 years and find the doubling price thing I mentioned to be largely valid. However occasionally there are some wonderful exceptions to that "rule". I always try to guide my customers to that kind of thing when it's an option. I also encourage them not to do it when the return is low. In fairness I am running a business and try to find something else that will give them a better return, especially if they are really wanting to upgrade their sound. I've learned the hard way that different doesn't always mean better. @@Coneman3

[@birdyflying4240]

Some people like to spend tons of money to have a certain brand, just like people buy Apple or Nike. Hi end gear is the most bling bling focussed market you can imagen and targeted on wealthy men with a big ego. I have had a class A tube amp (16 kg) and now use a class D, (0.5 kg) el cheapo $ 50 amp and the difference is very small about sound. In a double blind test most people will not hear the difference! I use my notebook with Tidal and a DAC dongle and it sounds just great. I made my own speakers and subwoofer and tuned it to my taste.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

When purchasing a high end piece of audio kit you are not guaranteed superb performance, it’s how you optimise the other parts of the system which surrounds it. The mains is a good example of where people tend to degrade their systems performance, it’s important to use a high quality power strip with an aluminium case and a star wired configuration. Cables are just as important since we of course want to preserve as much of the original signal as possible, OFC/OCC copper is what you should look out for, a bit of silver as well can liven a system up. The point is that it’s better to spend less on a set of speakers and spread the rest of the cost optimising the system rather than using up all the budget on one particular component.

[@birdyflying4240]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuide Indeed, hig end gear does not gaurantee much. First of, the room has more influence on the sound then the DAC and amp together! The interaction between speaker and room has a hugge impact. The thing is that you want to get good results in messy rooms full of reflexions, bumps, resonance ect. That's why i build my own speakers to ajust to the room and taste, i can tweak the curves and output and by choosing units the radiation patern. That has by far more effect on the sound then amp A or B or DAC A or B. Other thing is that you need good low end 20 - 40 Hz to "glue" the sound stage together and make it one mold. Not many speakers do that.

[@autonomous-hm5yf]

I would suggest the better amplifiers were made a long time ago. Those of us that have been around a long time know this and get them serviced as opposed to replaced.

[@jgsburnett9532]

I agree with you about computer (laptop) based streaming. I use a windows laptop (used exclusively for music) running Audirvana into a high quality dac via usb and a Jitterbug. I have compared the sound with that from a mid £500 streamer only device into the same dac and, though the difference is small, the laptop is the better choice. I hear lots of comments about computers being 'noisy' but I don't think it is difficult to overcome that. Further, I have not heard an explanation of how that noise manifests itself. In other words if there is noise what will I be hearing? For me the background is silent so that is not the problem. I have almost been talked into adding a DDC but I really am not sure that it would make much difference - other than being able to use I2S input on the DAC. Audirvana is continually being upgraded which happens seamlessly so I will never get left behind. The computing power of a laptop is much greater than most streamers with more RAM as well.

[@trog69]

This is my second gaming PC that also has all my music. I've built my system around both the PC and my end-game loudspeakers; the aDs 910s. I'm using an Emotiva balanced DAC/preamp to a balanced NAD 208 thx power amp. Best-sounding setup I've ever had.

[@trog69]

Forgot to mention, I've never had a problem with noise. Even with headphones the system is dead-quiet. (Modius DAC>Midgard amp)

[@ms19631964]

My Denon X6500h streaming services built in. I believe it has a built-in DAC. It plays HiRes music files too. Sounds great.

[@GregPhilip]

Thank you for this video. I rely on my PC and enjoy the many facets it offers but also have some dacs and some streamers. I look forward to more from you.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Yeah, their are many options in the hi-fi world, thanks for watching, your support is much appreciated.

[@rangerscoach]

I spent a year of my life on my stereo (14k :-/) and dacs dramatically change my system but it’s the system at large that reveals the qualities of the dac not the other way around.

[@svtcontour]

I'd say not really. Depends what bitrate you're after but my vintage DAC from the year 2000 is holding up just as well. In a blind listening test it was not really picked out as being inferior in any way vs much newer DACs while playing standard 16/44.1 uncompressed WAV.

[@NemoPropaganda]

As someone who has reviewed many streamers I'll chime in and say I've always felt they were all more similar than different. Nice video, you seem down to earth and fairly reasonable, a rarity in the hifi crowd :)

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Thanks for watching, I’m glad that you enjoyed.

[@Ray47nl]

I play all my music (flac, DSD, DSF, SACD and UHQR-flac) from my NAS. I use a raspberry pi with hifiberry dac on a vintage NAD amplifier and it sounds good!

[@toucan221]

Nice advice sometimes we need to be reminded of the basics

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I agree, thanks for the support.

[@gbmwaz]

Like another person said I have moved up from sub$100 dacs in MANY small steps over several years to now $700-$800 dacs. EVERY step up was VERY worthwhile. Yes I improved my amp and speakers a little along the way but the dac is the most critical as it's the front end of the whole system. Buying an integrated amp with a mediocre built in dac quickly outdated is the wrong way to go. It's easier to move a used dac to someone also moving up from below then selling a more expensive dac/amp combo. As a Brit you should know the Linn audio path via upgrades first in the front end. Same applies to digital front ends. BTW I've been in audio 50+ years and a former high end dealer. Thank You

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

In my experience the DAC should be a part of the system, it should not be the focus. Synergy can sometimes be tough to achieve in a hi-fi system, when you separate out components and potentially mix different brands together, you run the risk of messing with the sound. Of course their is a place for separates, I just don’t recommend going down that path if you are on a budget.

[@IronHorsey3]

My high end tube monoblock system, McIntosh 340LS speakers and RME ADI-2 is killing it using the Wiim Pro streamer. Super performance.

[@mat.b.]

I havent found that necessarily. The big leaps in the 100-400 range, or comparing expensive dacs to those in the lower bracket it can be more jarring. But going from 200 to 800 can be subtle, or 700 to 2000 a tossup

[@jamiermathlin]

You can always look towards what equipment may be available in the future, instead of buying what is right for you today. Personally, I like the Chord DACs, but the price balance between the Streamer, DAC, Amp and Speakers needs to be relative. The mainstream DACs (ESS/AKM) are fine when you are building a sub £1k system, but as you climb the tree as an audiophile, you need a dedicated Streamer with a digital out, allowing the separate DACs to be utilised. I have grown my system over the years, now I run an Eversolo Streamer (optical out sounds best), through a Chord Hugo/M-Scaler DAC combo, into a Michi X3 and finally to a pair of B&W 804 D4s and a pair B&W DB4S subwoofers (tuned for the 804 D4s). It sounds stunning 🙂

[@michaelwright1602]

I have been through a few DACs, the last one I sold was the Venus II 12th, a DAC I thought I would keep forever... I bought a pair of Zu speakers, and everything sounded like crap, especially the Denafrips gear. My buddy that sold me the Zu speakers told me to find a used PS Audio GainCell DAC/Preamp. I found one for $800 and also purchased the Parasound A23+ amplifier. The sound was fantastic, but not quite there yet. I then purchased a $200 vintage Sansui 4000 stereo receiver. I bought a WiiM mini for shits and giggles, it blew me away with the Sansui. I then upgraded to the WiiM Pro, same internal DAC, but I plugged the WiiM Pro into the GainCell via digital coax... Now it really sounds fantastic. The Venus is gone, the Denafrips amps and preamp, gone, the Parasound gone... In my case, an expensive DAC was not the answer. I could have easily lived with the WiiM DAC in this system. The PS Audio DAC, if you shop around can be had for the same price as a Schiit Freya S, I owned one of those too. And this PS Audio GainCell, is routinely trashed over at Amir's site Audio Science Review, due to its not so flattering measurements. I guess they never listen to what they test/review.

[@michaelwright1602]

@lujiezListen to whatever the hell you want to, I am not god and demanding anyone do anything. I do find fault with Amir and his testing, if I was to listen to him and guys like yourself I would not be enjoying what I consider a fantastic system.

[@connorduke4619]

Most integrated Dacs are ESS designs, which tend to be bright in the upper mids. I prefer a separate AKM or R2R based design for this reason, but then you are generally talking over $US1,000. Another thing: Dacs with one Dac per channel tend to perform noticeably better.

[@boba2783]

PCs and laptops last 3-5 years - they may last longer but they will not be supported by the manufacturers. It’s a lose lose situation and the people responsible for this situation love it.

[@Unicorn-ST]

Jacques, I 100% agree with you. As you mentioned at the end, when talking about PCs, there are also other very practical solutions. I am a podcaster, and I also record music from time to time, and I digitize my vinyl records and cassettes. Therefore, I use a mixer with a USB interface, and it's a tremendous solution for desktop gear. I am using the mixer (I have several of them in different places, but the principal one is a Yamaha AG06), as a USB DAC (it's 24-bit 192 kHz) with my computer. Logically, I also use it for recording or digitizing analog sources, but I also use it as a preamp. I can connect my phone or a MiniDisc player, or any other analog output source to them. For example, I have a Chromecast Audio connected to one of the inputs, which allows me to stream music even when the computer isn't connected. I am using the monitor output from the mixer to feed an amplifier connected to a 2.1 system. And as a bonus... it's a very good headphone amplifier. In fact, it's so good that I bought a Musical Fidelity MX-HPA headphone amplifier to improve the system. However, I've decided to sell it, along with my Chord Mojo, which has already been sold. The minimal sound advantages are so small that convenience wins here. Additionally, it has both single-ended and balanced inputs and outputs.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Glad to hear you are happy with your setup, thanks for watching.

[@gee3883]

That's a great solution, just don't know why I didn't think of it doh.

[@crumudgeon4102]

Agree, especially if you add a good jitter filter and a power conditioner. Clean power to your laptop and a cleaned up USB signal between your laptop and your pre-amp can make a huge difference. It did for me. Also recommend spending a little more foe an external phono stage (preamp]. Most built-in phono stages are not as good as most external phono preamps. Emotiva, for example, even admits to tnis. Hence, tney offer a seriously better external phono preamp as an alternative to their built-in phonostage on all of their preamps.. iMHO.

[@IronHorsey3]

Not going to match a Wiim Pro streamer or the new Wiim Pro+ with a AKM Dac chip. Won't even be close.

[@crumudgeon4102]

True, i imagine, but for now the WIIM Pro gets ma buy until I can affford better.

[@IronHorsey3]

@@crumudgeon4102 - some reports that the WiiM Pro used with an external DAC sounds better than the widely popular and well-received Eversolo DMP streamer. Which surprises me a little but not that much. My guess is that the WiiM Pro+ will further erode assumptions as it's a very good chipset.

[@ping2dk]

I invested $4000 in an Audio Alchemy DAC and streamer and tried the best HiRes streams QOBUZ and ROON only to realize that my 1200 CDs and 1200 LPs most often sound 2-5 times better than what the streaming platforms calls CD quality. HiRes sometimes wins out. I am at a sweet spot with PrimaLuna EVO 400 Integrated and Goldenear Triton reference

[@damo5701]

It seems with hifi the more things change the more they stay the same, DACs & Music Streamers being a case in point. Technology is improving with new & better chip sets and connectivity, room correction and dsp advancements, network speeds and bandwidth is now better able to support various streaming options and the multi-room streaming ecosystems and apps are maturing. But issues that have been around hifi since adam was boy are still here. For example whilst there are good budget options around costs quickly rise when you start chasing an improvement in sound quality and there is always the desire for the newest bit of kit. The decision of if and when to adopt new technologies is still here, even more so today. For most of us who don't have FU money, the elephant in the room is still the same, ever diminishing returns.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Yeah it can be difficult when you are on a budget, the temptation to upgrade will always be there as well. That is why instead of settling for the cheaper option it may be a better idea to target the more expensive piece of equipment and know that you are going to be happy with it in the long term.

[@Dan-iy8ig]

Another way to go about it is to buy a piece of equipment that you like but you know has good resale value potential resale value down the road ​@@Jacques_HiFiGuide

[@fredjohnson9856]

I use a computer for my streamer - RPI, with separate DAC and separate power & pre amps. I find separates sound better then integrated amp/receiver.

[@bruceandt]

I have given this so much thought. In a market that must recreate itself every few years. Dacs and streamers are easy pickings to create revenue. Perhaps compared to the smart phone market. It’s upgrade time. No longer supported. This kind of thing in the industry we call HiFi. The pie chart of HiFi has been carved up in many different ways over the last 40 years. The Equalizer jumps to the forefront from back on the day. Other words come to mind. Dolby! Then came the CD player. Well, what can you do with that. You can create amplifiers with different buttons to push to give very different presentations. Hall, studio, room, jass, basement, church, Hard rock, compression, forest…. It went on and on. Now we talk of Dacs and Streamers to deliver information from many sources. The information of a track being delivered in an ever evolving better way. The best things to have come down to a few fundamental choices. Obviously speakers. Low or high sensitivity transducers. Based on that choice you pair an amp. You buy 98 db speakers? You think tube amp. You buy 86db 6.5” drivers? You buy a class amp more suitable to drive it. These are essentials. Streamers and Dacs are the hornets nest that has been created for you to spend money on. Again… back to basics here. Volume, balance, tone controls, treble, bass. Active speaker manufacturers have come up with Master tunings in the software they offer in the powered speakers they offer. Master tunings so we can choose between the same functions we had in the past. But now it’s proprietary. Just jump on our site and download a master tuning to input into your system. It’s just newer jargon. Active room correction, near field, rolled off highs, late night listening. It’s the same thing done over again to entice the new user. It’s a strange industry.

[@KillerKojak]

My YAMAHA Aventage AVR have built in dac and headphone output... HOW it compare with this stuff ?? I think that many people need to know... sure it surely better with separate components but how far is the sound with a good AVR....??

[@Brian-ck9my]

I tried streaming on various laptops to a Denon amp. When I switched to a Bluesound node the improvement was significant. The fact that other streamers have now caught up or overtaken the node does not bother me, as mine still sounds as good as ever.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Laptops are kinda limited since they run on battery and you can’t really upgrade the power supply to a linear one. Optimising windows is important too, I understand though the appeal of a streamer, having multiple boxes and tweaking settings is not for everyone.

[@digitalshooter2905]

Your computer is hands down the best streamer there is. It is the most versatile and will play any type of music you want. Now as far as the digital to analog conversion that's another story. They have probably some of the worst DACs imaginable. That's why you saw the improvement.

[@dustind9242]

If you like to tinker than a raspberry or orange pi may be a solid route. Many of the all in one units, like wiim pro plus, don't seem to support my self hosted music server.

[@dan.nathan]

Sorry Jacques, but integrating a DAC onto a amp in order to avoid signal loss over a cable is poor advice. The power-supply of a DAC is much more important to the sound quality. By having to share your amp's instead you are introducing a lot of noise onto the delicate DAC clock. Also, DAC technologies are mature. There should be no concern buying a $5,000 DAC today thinking it will be replaced by tomorrow's new tech - anymore than buying a new amplifier. Delta-sigma and resistor ladder DACs have been around for over 50 years.

[@axelviarhilmarsson6317]

Hi - and thanks for this. I expect that you are correct regarding all this. I have not yet "stepped into" the world of streaming - apart from playing some via my phone over my various Sonos speakers. The reason for not stepping into this is probably the fact that I can't remember the name of any songs etc. so browsing is "hard" (but I want to test going into the streaming to see the recomendations from f.ex. Tital) so I normally purchase the records/cds that I would like to own/listen to. And being at my age I'm rather confused what is required to get things in the "streaming world" to work in harmony. I have a CD player from Yamaha (CD S2100) which is a heavy beast of a CD player (playing well with the "matching" Yamaha AS 2200 amplifier) and I know that the CD player has an internal DAC which one should be able to used for the DAC part of the "equation" so one should only need a streamer. You point out that the money might be better put inot a computer to take care of the streaming - and that is probably right. But for me the connection of the computer to the CD, to use it's internal DAC is something that looks to me as a "problematic" - is there any good videos that explain how this is all to be cabled together? There are probably many so many options in this - various "units" and various possible connections, cables etc. Thanks again for your advice I will take it to a good consideration prior to purchasing a streamer. One old and confused.

[@digitalshooter2905]

For the connection from your computer to your CD player you can try a USB-A to a USB-B cable or an optical cable if your computer has an optical out port you can use an optical cable for that connection.

[@mikelanier5617]

Upgrading my DAC to a Gustard R26 R2R with built-in Lan streamer has been the biggest improvement I have ever made to my system. Same speakers and amp, but just jaw dropping in all regards. Built-in streamer/renderer is well above my RME adi-2 dac fs, Node n130 and Wiim Pro in detail and overall musically. I can always upgrade the streamer should technology improve down the road and still have a fantastic R2R DAC either way. My Schiit DAC is now on my patio system with a Wiim Pro and sounds really nice when I'm outside. My RME is now connected to the Node for a great headphone stack beside my chair with parametric eq presets on the RME depending on which headphones I am using. Gustard R26 is my end game unless something is WAY better in the near future! ❤

[@seandoherty925]

R2r DAC's have been around for a long time and performance improvements have been fairly slow and steady rather than anything major and revolutionary. Streamers similarly are quite established technology at this stage. The big improvements are probably in what you get for your money rather than great leaps forward in technology.

[@mikelanier5617]

@seand I don't recall saying this was about "leaps in technology"? I know that I was referring to a R2R resistor dac making the largest improvement ever in my system. I also am using a tube amplifier with really old nos 1952 Sylvania tubes. Nothing new except I bought the Gustard R26 R2R and was amazed by the improvement it made.The EverSolo DMP-A6 digital transport is very new and showing up tomorrow as well 👌

[@andyhart5669]

It all depends where you are with your system and where you want to get to. If you have a system you are happy with but haven't got streaming capability a Wiim (mini or pro) with a reasonable priced DAC such as an SMSL SU-1 along with a half decent optical cable and RCA's and you will have a great streaming setup for £200 to £300. If however you don't have an amp, tour idea of buying one with streaming capability makes sense, but will it sound better than individual components for the same price? Maybe, maybe not! Depends on what you choose. If you do have a separate amp, streamer, and DAC, then you have the option to upgrade in future without starting again. If you are starting from scratch, start with the speakers, they are going to have the biggest impact on sound, and are going to require the most care when matching with your room. I don't see the benefit of a PC for your source. Unless you build it yourself, you are foing to have a pretty rubish DAC, and probably have to rely on Bluetooth or a phono jack as an output.

[@luca_rr4660]

Instead of buying a streamer DAC why not buy an Android Tablet with a big storage memory card, streamer apps, and a USB OTG coaxial/optical output attached to that Tablet so sound can be digitally send to an external dac or amplifier. This is much cheaper than many DAC streamers, though maybe a little less convenient and less functionality with external HDD or such. But it's more economical to upgrade in a few years, just by upgrading the tablet.

[@andrewwebb9426]

If you have a DAC integrated with the amp, you have to change very expensive amp if you upgrade the DAC. I’m wondering about computer myself. One thing that troubles me a bit is that computer optical drives may not have the same speed stability as ones designed for a hifi CD player? Does this actually matter, though? Another point is do you have to buy a special sound card for recording music off the internet?

[@noelmurray1]

Great advice and well presented. New subscriber.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Thanks for the support, it’s much appreciated.

[@UntakenNick]

Sheldon Cooper presents Fun with DACs..

[@seannauman489]

Hearing the difference in DACs is just like being married. At first it’s all brand new and your just not very in tune with the difference you may or may not be hearing, The more you do it, the more you can hear the subtle differences. After many years, I can easily sense the subtle differences in my Wife’s mood just like I can easily hear the differences between DACs. Like anything, just practice.

[@rm-mastering]

Hi Jacques, great video, I totally agree, dac market is as fast as ever, keeping up can be frustrating, always good to have some options when considering a streamer. Thanks for sharing. looking forward to more videos.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Cheers mate :)

[@briancampbell7712]

I've decided to pair a high end Aqua formula dac that can be upgraded if tech changes later...Pairing it with a Lumin U2 Mini w/ seperate linear power supply, it doesn't have a dac...comments welcomed❓

[@silver33]

I'm very novice when it comes to this, but want to buy nice equipment to listen to music. What do I get first? Thank you.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

First of all, set yourself a budget to work with and focus on the speaker and amplifier you would like in your system. You may want to consider a headphone setup if you live in an apartment or have neighbours that will be bothered by your stereo. It may also be a good idea to go to a store and find out what kind of sound signature you prefer.

[@silver33]

I will be considering headphones since I live in a condo. I'll do more research. Thank you. @@Jacques_HiFiGuide

[@mortimersnerd1348]

On the surface I would agree with you using a computer as your source except for one irksome bug I have with your recommendation...I have a laptop running Linux and a desktop running Windows. I've loaded up JRiver and Foobar2000 onto both units thinking I'd get bit perfect output via usb to my dac. NOPE!!! The OS's keep down-sampling the signal to 16bit 44.1Hz. For any beginner or novice this is very frustrating. I've tinkered around with settings on both the laptop and windows pc, but nothing I do makes any difference. I'm at the point where I've thrown in the towel and currently looking for a dedicated streamer...the Eversolo DMP-A6 looks promising.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

The problem you are probably facing is that you are using WASAPI as the driver, you want to either be using kernel streaming or ASIO. Check out JPLAY FEMTO and use that as your control point, it supports both the above mentioned drivers and the setup is fairly straightforward.

[@mat.b.]

Really disagree with the idea of going for an integrated amp with a cheap built in dac over having a separate one "because cables bottleneck the sound", thats crazy

[@marklloyd5275]

I have a topping DX9 . Could anybody recommend a good streamer to connect to it

[@PlaAwa]

streamers and dacs are all the rage because of how lucrative they are, all the way down. massive margins to play with while capitalizing on those who want 'the best' and brand snobs. okay admitedly, part of this whole scene is aesthetics etc, and I'm a big fan of design perfection for consumer end-products, but I'm also a fan of space-saving and convergence technology. people want to jump the gun. i say stick to the PC for as long as device - and ambient - noise actually makes a difference. or until all of the other components are at a level where the PC stuff makes a difference. how many people live in an anechoic chamber? it's easy for us to become anal in our daydreams (pun defs not intended) but it's best to take things step-by-step in reality in order to appreciate each improvement. the people that go on about how important streamers are, often say the same for power conditioners and want to peddle overpriced cables and brass feet. i call BS on all of those middlmen.

[@frederf69]

Thanks for this reminder. This subject should be common sense, but there are a lot of great salesmen on-line to tempt us with the latest shiny thing that will deliver audio nirvana. New subscriber ✌😎👍

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I agree, thanks for subscribing, it’s much appreciated :)

[@itk2493]

All full of bowlocks.

[@MagicMojitos]

Da fudge is wrong with people in this chat? Video was fine in general pertaining to Jacques opinion... PEACE

[@davidcarr2216]

DACs hve been very good for ar at least 10 years - they really don't have any further to go. Streamers are somewhat newerbut are relatively simple devices. People have been using laptops as streamers quite successfully for quite a while. I'd say don't waste your money on either expensive DACs or streamers. Intstead of listening sighted try doing some blind testing - you'll soon see what I mean. Stop falling into the great hifi trap of it's newer therefore it must be better or it's more expensive therefore it must be better or it's a bigger brand name therefore it must be better. Admitedly you can get something wrong in a million ways, not so many ways of getting something right but amps/DACS/streamers aren't quantum computers guys.

[@GeirRssaak]

Finally an intelligent man!

[@goodsound4756]

Be careful with the video title: your experience/opinion doesn’t always equal with „the truth“. For instance, I compared the eversolo DMP A6, which everybody is raving about with my 10 year old MSB ‚the analog‘ DAC. Guess who won the shootout? The old MSB. A good DAC consists of more than just the converter chip.

[@Haydos]

if you buy a wiim device and bypass the external dac there would be no reason to upgrade to a better one. why would you want to use a pc when most apps dont output bit perfect audio and they have many other issues with the windows audio path. i really just dont understand. also how have dacs and streamers evolved? some people still use something like the squeezebox touch. it still streams local files and with plugins it can stream qobuz, tidal ect. if it streams bit perfectly you can just change the dac and no matter when it came out it will be the exact same. dacs might have lower distortion but new ones dont make the old ones sound bad.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

It’s pretty simple to output bit perfect from a PC, check out a UPNP player such as Audirvana or JPLAY FEMTO as examples. Older DACs aren’t necessarily bad, it’s just you can get a lot more value nowadays and I think that trend is set to continue.

[@Haydos]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuide definitely. The problem is I use apple and Amazon and they are both not but perfect ☹️. I really hope tidal and qobuz will keep growing and fixing stuff like removing mqa and expanding the library. Very true about DACs. It's mostly hype tho

[@Dan-vb3ju]

Ya but that is just common sense...but if you choose to use that kind of format there are lots out in the market. I prefer vinyl , but at times a streamer is easier to grab your tablet and press a song. So there is NO problem with streamers and Dacs

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I’m not saying that it’s a bad idea to use a streamer, I’m simply stating that the problem is that streamers are relativity new to the market and are advancing at a very rapid rate. I don’t see a problem in investing in a streamer which is under £500, but if you are spending thousands, the chances are that your product may be outperformed by something better in a couple of years from now which is cheaper. Hope that gives some clarification to one of the points in this video.

[@stijnvanderlooy5311]

This is simply not correct. Streamers from brands like auralic, lumin and many more get many updates over years. Same for dac such as those from ps audio and dcs.

[@tubefreeeasy]

I figure, it’s time to look for a DAC that complies with your theories of quality hifi. I believe heavily on silver cables and tube components. I also believe that when you’ve tried everything and you can’t get your system to sound better, time for the DAC.

[@rosswarren436]

At least if you buy a good DAC between $500 and $1500 you can generally hope to get many years of use from it, and it will even have some resale value. The problem with Streamers that are software based such as ones that use a modified flavor of Android and rely on the streaming services apps is that eventually the newer apps will not work on it. Even if the company is still around by then and is customer driven enough to provide a firmware update to a newer version of Android, eventually the hardware won't run a newer flavor of Android. Basically, at that point you are left with an expensive paperweight that has no value at all. So, buyer beware for sure. To some people, a $1000 streamer that only lasts 3 or 4 years is fine, but for others, they'd rather buy a cheap $150 to $500 streamer like the WiiM Pro or the newer ones in that price range by NAD and Cambridge Audio, so they aren't out as much. Regarding DACs, are we short-changing ourselves if we don't get a R2R one? So many reviewers talk about the "natural tonality and soundstage depth and width" of R2R DACs. But from a technical standpoint I'm not sure I understand why this older architecture gives these benefits versus ones that are chip or FPGA based.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I think that purchasing a streamer for under £500 is fine, it’s when you start to go into the higher end territory that in my opinion the price is not justified. Obviously value is different for everyone but if you are on a modest budget it’s probably best to spread the cost evenly, their are a lot of areas to optimise in a hi-fi system and to spend a lot of the budget on just the DAC/Streamer is not a good idea in my opinion.

[@billthestinker]

Just buy 💿

[@steve-ey4ol]

Yeah will sick with my HomePods

[@xaerothehero]

00:50 "An amplifier from 10-15 years ago is gonna hold up against what is the latest and greatest today..." This would had been true if you had said it like 6-7 years ago. But today that's not really true. Only in the past 2-3 years we have had completely new tech and amplifier modules like Purifi Eigentakt 1ET400A or the Hypex NCX500 and Nilai500, all which totally stomps any class A, A/B or class D amp from a few years ago, in ALL aspects as THD, linearity, power, damping factor and efficiency. Oh and on price....

[@CompetentSalesUSA]

Room has a lot of echoes. Hard to understand voice.

[@TheGreatMrBill]

Your microphone is terribly sibilant. That was painful to listen to.

[@IronHorsey3]

Sorry, at this point must disagree about a computer. I have been that route years back and no amount of tinkering will deliver the performance today of a WiiM Pro. It delivers a big bang performance in my tube monoblock system. Not only that, Wiim Pro is Roon Ready and the new Wiim Pro+ has a nice AKM DAC chip for not much more than the original $150 price. If you want to use your computer with your TV, sure by all means. For good or better audio, the Wiim Pro is a landmark. At $150, I added an external 5v power supply for about $50 for even better performance. No computer can touch it.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I understand your frustration when it comes to using a computer in an audio system but in truth a PC has more potential as opposed to the average network streamer. For starters they tend to have better specs with higher processing power, as well as this you are able to upgrade the internals and optimise windows for better sound quality. That’s not to say streamers don’t have their place, some people don’t want the hassle of having to tinker with a computer and that’s fine.

[@IronHorsey3]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuide - been there, done that. Had used Mac Minis for years. In the end, it was crushed by a $150 WiiM Pro in a high end system. For video, go ahead with a computer plugged into a TV. But if quality audio is an objective, a streamer like the Wiim Pro for $150 is a great option. I've seen major improvements since it went in last December. Today, there's a new Wiim Pro+ with a AKM dac chip. I go coaxial to an RME ADI-2 so I can't compare but for many if not most that will be a great option too.

[@cyberphonic]

Dont waste your money on DAC or cables they make very little difference, all subjective influenced by marketing and cost. I can bet that anyone blind testing DAC, cables will never guess which one is more expensive and will all make different choices, but take the blind fold off and they can see the product and suddenly they hear a difference.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

That is simply not true, blind testing does not really work in audio since it takes time for the brain to adjust to a new sound and also every time you power down the equipment to change a cable, it then takes time for that piece of equipment to warm up again. It’s in the long term listening where it counts, an example would be if you bought a higher quality cable and then switched back to a stock one a few weeks later, the chances are that you will struggle to listen to that stock cable again. As for DACS, they do make a difference but I think people overestimate them sometimes, you can get away with a mediocre DAC as long as your network, power management and source such as a PC is fully optimised.

[@morespinach9832]

Utter nonsense. It’s audibly different and it makes a huge difference. Even between a bluesound and a German made tinier Limetree Bridge - made a huge difference. Then when I added an MCRU linear power supply, another huge jump. Then when I connected Limetree to an RME DaC it as another audible upgrade.

[@wesselkampen2644]

What a bs statement. A good dac makes an enormous difference

[@5e88e]

Different DACs sound very different. Anyone saying otherwise hasn't listened to different hifi systems. I did blindtest my dac between a 250€, 750€ and 1500€, and it was not even hard. The cheap one was a big no no, sound was like mumbles compared

[@theReebell]

For sure he didn't test

[@tomchan2559]

Streaming services are still no match to CD or Vinyl. Convenience is the only reason that I use Tidal.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

That is true, you can still great results from streaming though, you just have to make sure you optimise a lot of different areas.

[@dreamstormPL]

In fact they are if you use Qobuz or other lossless services (forget Tidal or Spotify). For years I was using streaming services and flac files from my PC, but few months ago I decided to check several streaming software (Volumio, Euphony, etc.) on my miniPC which is apart from my main PC and I use it only for streaming. I decided to go for Volumio and I was amazed how much better it sounds comparing to playing Qobuz directly from Windows. I was also comparing foobar2000 before and after configuration which skips Windows mixer and the difference is quite big. I also use my CDs and I can say for sure that the Qobuz quality has exceeded CD quality. For me CD quality is good enough because the main difference lies in album mastering.

[@BrianGarside]

@tomchan2559 Streaming from the cloud does not compete like direct CD playback, but if you stream from a CD library locally stored with exact copies it very much the same.

[@Haydos]

@@BrianGarside why. is this a jitter issue?

[@BrianGarside]

@@Haydos the cloud offerings are only marginally more jitter than a direct stream from a local source. Direct CD playback can still have issues if the disc isn’t perfectly clean so for me it’s a negligible compared direct stream from storage disk.

[@sgt_major8419]

lol HIFI guide from a kid that's not even been around long enough have heard much at all.....sigh.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I have actually been involved with hi-fi ever since childhood and have worked in the industry before, I’m not saying that I am a total expert but maybe in the future don’t judge a book by it’s cover too much.

[@sgt_major8419]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuide sorry mate , HIFI is not having had a job at Currys or Richer Sounds, that's all commercial, cheaply made gear for the every day joe..your limited time around music also limits your ability to understand music and how equipment impacts it. Stick to reviewing headphones etc etc is my advice.

[@itk2493]

Stop pi55ing money away on DACS and ever solo streamers, flavor of the month shyte. The neatest I've seen is the stereohub with WiSA and active speakers with DSP. Just control it all from your phone, no need for tons of boxes and cables. Embrace the future.

[@BrianGarside]

For some it is the future, but some like myself still like a separate streamer DAC. Yes for some an active speaker is the right path.

[@Gadgetdad007]

This guy is a rambling novice. Better is a matter of opinion.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I agree that audio is subjective, but what you have to realise is that we are in the golden age of Hi-Fi, the value you can get now is great. The point is that investing a large amount of money in digital products such as separate DACs and streamers which are at all times getting better and better is not a worthy investment in my opinion, i am not talking about products under £500 but more so on the higher end so let’s say £2000+, it’s better to invest in your speakers and optimise your entire system. Power supply for internet router, room treatment, quality speaker and power cable, all of these points which are often overlooked do have quite a big impact on the overall sound, the DAC or streamer is just another part of the system it should not be the main focus.

[@Gadgetdad007]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuide if satisfaction is guaranteed and satisfaction is achieved then who cares what the future brings. Live for today and enjoy spending your hard earned cash. You never know when your time is up.

[@amb3cog]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuideSo your source isn’t important? And the rest of your system is just supposed to turn garbage into roses? Nonsense. Garbage in, garbage out.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

⁠@@amb3cogI never said that your source is not important. I just think that putting a large amount of money into a separate DAC or streamer may not be worth it if you are on a budget. As I said their are a lot of different areas to optimise in a hi-fi system and it’s best to make sure that all of them are covered.

[@amb3cog]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuide But a DAC/Streamer is your source. So that is EXACTLY what you’re saying.

[@pierrefornallaz364]

What a boring video, with just general and wrong comments. No, DACs are nowadays a center piece for a good Hifi system. Just wonder if you have ever made tests of different DACs before coming with your completely wrong conclusions !!

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I think that you may have misunderstood the point of the video. I never said that DACs were not important to a systems performance, I was just trying to explain that spending thousands on one may not be a wise decision considering how far they have developed in the last few years. They will continue to get better, plus with so much to optimise in a digital hi-fi system it may be better to invest the money elsewhere and achieve a sound with more balance.

[@pumaweek169]

first, we have to define "better" in hifi...when people talking about a certain upgrade, the very first thing they say is how new component bring "more details"....it is almost universal answer among audiophiles, but i don't think that's the point of audio devices, and music as art in general, to hear everything at any cost...

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Detail is important but you are right their is more to hi-fi then just that. Personally I would rather sacrifice a little bit of detail if it means my system can sound more natural and true to life.

[@pumaweek169]

agree...thing is, all those golden ears boys in the comments wouldn't be able to tell a difference between 200$ dac and 2000$ dac on the blind test if their life depends on it...audio forums and youtube so called "reviews" are so full of it, it looks like what hifi hdmi cable "vibrant colors" compared to competition crap is spreading around like wildfire...

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

Blind tests can be helpful in certain scenarios, however it is in the long term listening where it counts. Sometimes it takes the brain time to adjust to a different sound and fully appreciate the differences. With that said though audio in general is about balance and I don’t recommend spending a large amount of money on one or two singular components unless you have the budget to do so.

[@bumpsy2358]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuide Just so to be clear, anyone who has been involved in this hobby for any amount of time, and I use that term loosely, knows it is not for the budget constrained, or penny pinchers. You at best get some of what you pay for, and at worst get bruised. I am not saying price determines quality, I am saying there are layers to this game, and if you are trying to pinch pennies or you don't have the funds, then best to just go buy you a home theater in a box, and call it a day. Because you truly are not an enthusiast based on what you tried to present in this video. So title should be this is my advice for people who are not audio video enthusiast, but merely want some entertainment.

[@Jacques_HiFiGuide]

I don’t think you understand the point of the video. I’m not advising people to spend as little as possible, I am simply trying to point people in the right direction, their are many areas in a hi-fi system to optimise. The DAC and streamer should be a part of the system, it should not be the focus.

[@bumpsy2358]

@@Jacques_HiFiGuide I agree with that sentiment, the Dac and Streamer should not be the pure focus. Maybe you were not able to explain or present that argument in a way, that was universally understood. To be frank and honest, it sounded like you really did not have enough experience to give said advice. Like you were someone fairly new to the hobby. That was just the interpretation, either way good luck on your journey.