The digital output of WiiM streamers

WiiM streamers are extremely popular, and rightly so. They perform extremely well for the money. Using the digital output to feed to a more upmarket DAC is seen as a very clever approach. But is it.
Contents of this video
00:00 - Introduction
00:23 - Start of program
00:54 - Bits are bits
03:50 - How tested
06:38 - Judgement considerations
09:10 - The WiiM Mini
09:47 - The WiiM Pro Plus
10:43 - The Magna Mano MK IIII Farad
11:31 - Some after thoughts
Relevant videos & links:
The BS about network switches and the like…: • The BS about network s...
Why digital circuits influence the sound quality: • Why digital circuits i...
Alpha-Audio: Does a Bad Network Switch RUIN your streamer?: • Alpha Labs - Does a Ba...
Neutrik NADITBNC-FX AES/EBU to SPDIF converter: www.neutrik.com/en/product/na...
Playlist: About your ears: • About our hearing
Playlist About my reference setups, January 2023, network chapter: • About my reference set...
If you like my work, support it through:
My Patreon page: / thehbchannel
Paypal: www.paypal.me/theHBchannel
My links:
My site: www.theHBproject.com/en
My channel: / thehansbeekhuyzen
My Facebook page: / hansbeekhuyzen
My LinkedIn page: / hansbeekhuyzen
My Instagram page: / beekhuyzenhans

[@philipharrison5025]

I use the Wiim mini within a somewhat higher-end system than the one used here and the sonic deficits you mention - non-existent phantom centre; sound ‘sticking to speakers,’ etc - are entirely absent.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Enjoy the music

[@Hifi-Nomad]

Are you stating that Hans' system is sh*te and not the WiiM?

[@philipharrison5025]

I wouldn’t put it quite like that… just that the cause of the sonic shortcomings might lie elsewhere, given that they don’t manifest at all in my decent-but-not-outstanding system.

[@18yearsoldnot]

I imagine you prefer the more dynamic sound - that’s not an insult, but just an observation I saw with people who complain about upgrading digital cables… I.e. that they make the music sound more distant and reduce dynamics… I personally still prefer richer and smooth sound. I have the magna mano mk3 and even allo digi one signature sound vastly more “pleasant” than my bluesound node n130 digital out. The bluesound sounds thin and tight with weak bass extension - a bit disappointing given its price imo…

[@mikeb.7845]

There couldn't be a more timely subject. This video will help a lot of people, including I. Great stuff! Btw, thank you for the NADITBNC-FX AES/EBU to SPDIF converter link. It saved me.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Nefty_]

Thank you for the great content again Hans, very interesting. I think the Cyan 2 is also a great Dac to hear the differences between the sources. As it doesn’t OS neither reclocks if I’m right? Has it a pll or something like that?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

All DAC's use a PLL or FLL to catch the incoming signal. The often mentioned 'reclocking' can only do so much.

[@Nefty_]

Okay I didn’t know that. But that makes sense. However why can we disable that pll on the Holo Audio May for instance?

[@dannyfannyfoodle]

Very interesting!! I recently tried the Eversolo A6 but hated the DAC and hated the fiddly user interface almost as much, so it wasn’t worth it to me to use it as just a streamer with a better external DAC. I ended up going with the iFi Zen Stream primarily due to its purpose-built function with NO built-in DAC. I have a Naim DAC-V1 which, as you may know, had an asynchronous USB input that pulls the digital signal from the streamer and runs it through its own superior clock. Do you think I’m missing something by pairing a $400 streamer with a $2,800 DAC? It sounds incredible, but your video is making me question whether I’m leaving sonic money on the table, as it were. Thanks for everything you do!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

De gustibus non disputandum est

[@briantooze3415]

For a low price Wiim makes a good product. I upgraded my mini to the pro version and noticed a difference. Hopefully the next iteration will be better again.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Totally agree!

[@RamisDad]

Tried the Wiim pro plus and returned it since the Wiim ultra was announced, curious to hear if the digital streaming output is improved compared to the pro plus

[@katakitz]

Thank you, Hans! You made me think deeper about the importance of streamer quality. We, the Wiim fans, can’t wait to listen to the new Wiim Ultra, which should be launched in less than 3 months. It seems it will have a better DAC, a touch display, an USB and also a HDMI ARC input. We know nothing yet about the streaming module of it. We can only hope…

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Let’s see

[@MisterChibs]

Fantastic video and well put. I’m forwarding this to someone that asked me to compare the Wiim Pro to the LUMIN U2 Mini. 🍻

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks for sharing

[@ulif.7593]

Thank you for your good work. I thought about buying a Holo Audio Cyan 2 and a WiiM Pro Plus. Many YTs said, that the WiiM is a great deal. On the other hand I heard about the Holo Audio Red , which is a network streamer and a „DDC“. This one is said to be sensational. Did you tested it or is it possible for you to do this?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I din' est it. But I tested the Magna Mano Ultra MK III Farad (kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKGcgIWXp7l7o6s) and the Denafrips Arce (kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIKzaISMZdegoNk). I chose the Magna as you might have seen.

[@James-mb5jr]

Great video! By the way, have you tried the Holo Red streamer and how it partners with the Cyan 2?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I have reviewed both. You can find by searching for ‘beekhuyzen & holo’ in KZbin.

[@regardtvandermerwe2675]

Love the video it was very well explained. I have not previously thought about the quality of the digital stream, and no one ever talks about it. It's because of this video I purchased the Wiim pro instead of the mini even though I will use a fairly decent external dac.i believe pro and pro plus digital signal is the same.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

That’s correct

[@jondu-sud274]

Hello Hans, Very interesting subject and clearly explained. I think that I have finally taken on board the effect of the stream-digital feed to a DAC. I believe this is why I have been underwhelmed when auditioning several 2000 euro DACs from my 700 euro node 2i.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@randyhelou5412]

I run my setup using a Wiim Pro as a streamer (Oppo Sonica Oppo HA1 2xBenchmark ahb2 bridged and Harbeth SHL5 Plus) and have done so from being convinced that a digital signal is just that, a digital signal. Your video has given me food for thought and I’ll be doing further research to see whether or not I can benefit from a better streamer. Thank you as ever for a great video Hans.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

👍🏼

[@usswia]

Hello Hans, very enjoyable video and answered the first part of a question I've been pondering for a few weeks now. The second part is : I understand from your video that a major limiting factor in the Wiim is the onboard clock. Does the digital data stream not get re-clocked by the Cyan 2 DAC? I could not find any documentation on the Cyan 2 clock, other than a reference to a Femto clock on the original Cyan, so I assume it's probably something similar. Can any of the SQ issues you identify (bass, image, etc) be recovered by a better quality DAC or DDC clock e.g. an Ocxo clock on a Denafrips Hermes? Generally, I agree with matching components price-wise but I find the Wiim app interface excellent - better than all I've tried so far at various price points (interestingly Musical Fidelity are partnering with Wiim for streaming solutions) so, like many, I'm asking how can I take the performance to the next level, while still enjoying the user friendliness, online support, active forum etc of the Wiim equipment and community. If you are ever in N.Ireland, free B&B in exchange for some room set up tips. (or maybe that's not really free, then!)

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It's not only the crystal. See my video "The BS about network switches and the like." (kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHSpp3ywr7KknM0). What goes for the switch also goes for streamers.

[@rcavor74]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hi Hans, Can you put the link on measurement results of Wiim Pro Plus (digital output especially) of Alpha audio? What was the test setup? What is in your opinion SQ difference between Wiim Pro Plus digital output compared to your favorite Magna Mano MK3 with the same external DAC? For example, In one of your reviews you set the estimation that Mano MK3 is on 80% of Grimm Audio MU1.

[@charlyvanbuuren2947]

Dankjewel Hans voor de heldere uitleg!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

👍🏼

[@proxmoxie]

I had a strange experience recently with my setup - i decided to try HQ player so i downloaded the trial version on my Macbook Pro late 2013 and connected my Moon 280D DAC (witout streaming board) via a standard 0.5m USB cable. Compared to my Primare DD15 CD transport, and Primare NP5 network player connected via SPDIF - the soundstage just opened up, and sounded more lively. Perhaps its due to the oversampling DAC chip in the Moon that doesnt has to work as hard when HQ player upsamples it to 352 khz, or perhaps its just me who needed some variation. I ripped one of my CDs to a FLAC file using XLD and tested switching back and fourth. Im confused.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Good upsampling does that.

[@oliverjosshvac2101]

I use my macbook as a streamer with a good dac from geshelli. What is your opinion on using the computer as a source. I had the wiim mini before that and would say the macbook sounds better.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I think you're right. Almost certain even.

[@kl9941]

Interesting. The Wiim Mini sounds so much better than my albeit older Mac Air.

[@BearDave]

I finally found answers to my questions about Wiim Mini. I will definitely follow this channel !

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Welcome aboard!

[@Pinomatt61]

Hello Hans. Very nice test, even if introducing the Etheregen in the chain must have influenced a lot the second and third device performances. I own a 2GO/2YU streamer from Chord, it goes to an MScaler using a Curious Evolved USB cable, then via a self-made optical link to a TT2 DAC; each of them is powered independently from an SJ lps. When I tested the Etheregen that a friend borrowed me, I immediately noticed an incredible soundstage was appearing, unfortunately I had to give it back and I'm still waiting for Uptone to release the second version of that device to buy it. The Etheregen is not just a switch, it makes a very good job isolating the streamer from the electrical noise present in the network and restoring correct signal timing . A well balanced system can reveal every change in the digital chain and I totally agree with you: even if "bits are bits" the way they are sent to the DAC makes a huge difference in sound quality. Lucky you for owning an MU2 🙂

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Yes the EtherREGEN has a small effect on the sound quality of the WiiM's. But is was minor compared to the influence the WiiM's have on the sound.

[@RamisDad]

Really appreciate this video. Im looking for best streamers (not including dac) for the price. Interested in how the wiim ultra would compare w the wiim pro plus. I like the Wiim user experience but wonder if i need to step up to sonething like the eversolo A6

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I can't judge that for you. It depends in your stereo and your ears.

[@RamisDad]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks Hans, I'm hoping that you make that comparison video in the future and hope to use the insights you present to better inform my decision :)

[@johngutmanis3204]

I’m not sure about your conclusions regarding the WiiM Pro. I started out with the Mini and iFi power supply using the WiFi , into a Denefrips Ares12 balanced cable to McIntosh c50 Pre balanced to a McIntosh mc352 amplifier ,to Klipsch La Scala speakers, REL subs and a very good sounding room. Excellent soundstage super strong Center image details that I haven’t heard before all in all in general a fantastic experience.Then I bought the Pro and replaced the Mini. I thought there may have been better sound, but really did not notice a large delta. I really don’t know or think there’s anything more to be gained switching to a more expensive streamer for my system.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Let's agree to disagree ten.

[@aleph0909]

Is Bluesound node an upgrade over Wiim pro, when using external dac and power supply?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Even when you use it with the internal DAC it is an upgrade.

[@aleph0909]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel👍🏼 thanks

[@hennied]

Your timing is perfect Hans. I am looking for a good streaming transport and have narrowed it down to either the Magna Mano or the Lindemann Limetree Bridge II. Is the Mano significantly better (and therefore worth the extra cost)? The system: Mano or Limetree - Cyan 2 - Burson Conductor R - Hypex Nilai Monoblocks - Kef R3.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I can't chooser for you, but I have bought the Magna as you can see.

[@DaSixSixOne]

I had WiiM Pro Plus into a Schiit Yggrdasil MIB via COAX into a Mjolnir 3 and DCA E3 headphones and the S’s were shrill and sibilant. Upgraded to Matrix Element S connected via USB into same chain and soundstage opened up and S’s sound soft and natural now. Great suggestion to pay as much for source equipment as one pays for the DAC. Very true.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks for sharing

[@inthebasement]

Respectfully coax and optical from the Pro Plus sound clearly different into the same dac. The reason for this is not clear and it is wrong to assume it proves anything about sources. I would assume the issue is most likely at the dac, and others would no doubt want to know about my cabling. I would question the motives and/or analysis of anyone offering up confident conclusions in this area contrary to the logic and available comparative data.

[@llLL12348]

Hi Hans Can you also talk about difference between streamer vs a pc software for streaming. Tidal on a streamer vs tidal on a pc vs tidal on an iPhone sound quite different. Inspite of using same external DAC for all digital sources there is definitely some sound difference. Can you post a video about this difference?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I'll think about it.

[@rosswarren436]

Would love for you to get in and review a NAD CS-1 streamer and compare its output to the WiiM Pro Plus. What are we getting for the extra money? ($349 USD) compared to the WiiMs? Is jitter significantly bettter? How does it compare to the Node? I mean, if you are going to feed an external DAC, would the NAD CS-1 do just as well as the Node? Sadly, the CS-1 does not offer USB out so the level of clocking will be limited to that on the CS-1, even if you use an external DAC., correct?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It's almost daily that someone asks me for a comparison between two specific pieces of gear. I'm afraid there is no way that I can do that. Sorry.

[@rosswarren436]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannelthanks for all the reviews you do anyway.

[@PauloFerreira-hh6zv]

Hi Hans, thank you very much for the excelente video. I'm looking for a streamer to connect to my Pontus II. I'm thinking about Volumio Rivo and Ferrum Hypsos. I like Magna Mano, but I think if I want to sell it later to upgrade, it will be easier to sell Rivo, keeping Hypsos to connect to the streamer I buy at the time. I think that the Rivo + Hypsos will not be inferior in sound level compared to the Magna Mano.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

As you might conclude from the fact that I did not go for the Volumio - and I already own a Hypsos - that I disagree where sound quality is concerned (not to mention the versatility)

[@PauloFerreira-hh6zv]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for the answer Hans. It was probably me who made the wrong conclusion. I had an idea that in the Rivo review, Hans had said that the Rivo connected by AES/EBU to the DAC and with the Farad 3, was very close to the level of the Magna Mano, so I concluded that the Hypsos being better than the Farad 3 , by connecting the Rivo to the Hypsos, it would surpass the Magna Mano. One of my dilemmas is that a Farad 3, with Purple Fuse and the L2 Silver DC Cable, is at the price of the Hypsos here in Portugal, so if the Hypsos has better sound than the Farad and has the possibility of choosing the voltage between 5V-30v, I think it makes more sense to buy the Hypsos than the Farad 3, with the Fuse and cable upgrade. Unless I'm missing some detail.

[@xstensl8823]

i doubt you will have trouble selling the Mano. hard to find used.

[@PauloFerreira-hh6zv]

Magna Mano is an unknown product here in Portugal. When there are a lot of positive reviews about a product, it is easy to sell, for example: DACs from Denafrips, amplifiers from Hegel or Streamers from Eversolo. Now a product like Magna Mano that has Hans' review and little else is very difficult to sell. I say this for the used market in Portugal, perhaps in other countries it will be different.

[@michaelj.4187]

thanks, Hans! sending love to everyone...

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

🙏

[@chakravarthiamithraghav8008]

How about results if I upgrade every non audiophile components in the wiim, to a stricter compliant components? 1. Certainly the cost goes up but is it worth an effort?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You'll have a very hard time fixing those components on to the PCM. And if you succeed, I wonder if the PCM design is good enough or even has become worse. But it's an interesting challenge. Please let us know when you have results.

[@Music2Die4]

I used an Audiophonics DigiRescue (from France) reclocker between Wiim streamer (with linear power supply) and SMSL SU-X DAC, the sound improved considerably..... I cannot say if it improved to the level of a more expensive streamer, but I am happy with this combination.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Enjoy the music

[@usswia]

Have you tried with the SU-X without the DR? The PLL circuit of the SU-X should do a grand job of removing jitter. Sometimes adding an external reclocker or resampler can increase the noise floor and not add anything to jitter removal if the DAC has good PLL circuit

[@espresso8925]

Hallo.i have a 30 years old dac ,produced by dpa (The Bigger Bit). I LOVE THE SOUND QUALITY .But it makes Pop noise when changing cd's or turn off the Digital device .is there a filter or a aktiv spdif splitter that can help Grettings from Germany

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Not that I know off. Sorry.

[@espresso8925]

I will keep the Dac.these old philips Chips makes beautyfull sound .

[@espresso8925]

Pro and cons

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I can only advise you not to listen to good modern DACs…..

[@paulgreen2303]

Hans, 5+ years ago you championed the SoTM SMS200/Ultra/Neo network streamers and I'm one of the thousands that have had one ever since. Could you consider revisiting SoTM streamers in comparison with you new system one streamer??? No one brings up SoTM streamers any longer. Are they still relevant?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Be assured the SOtM sMS200 Ultra Neo is in the same class as the Magna Mano Ultra MK III Farad. But where the SOtM has USB as output, the Magna offers AES/EBU (of SPDIG) and I²S.

[@18yearsoldnot]

Telling people their cheap gear is not as good as more expensive gear is like taking sweets away from children. They won’t appreciate it, but I do appreciate this, because if you want to really “enjoy the music” as you say - in my opinion my cheap chifi dac was actually a setback as it created this “digital glare”, and I grew up in the cd era where this just didn’t exist. Therefore in order for me to enjoy the music, this video means a lot. It is a great video.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It is not my intention to 'take away' anything from anyone. But if 'anyone' starts claiming its € 100 streamer is as good as any streamer, he might lead those seeking good sound in a digital dead end street,

[@johntucker5994]

This is one of your best and most helpful reviews as relatively uncomplicated as it was. Thank you!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@aussie8114]

I’m using the Bluesound Node as a streaming transport into my amps very good DAC. Sounds good to me and lets me enjoy music. That’s what it should be about, playing music and enjoying it.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I agree completely

[@RAMIRO61FERNANDES]

THANK YOU! EXCELENT! ....................Magnificent!!!!!.......

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad you like it!

[@FunkBass010]

...I almost bought a WiiM Pro as a streamer for my RME ADI-2 DAC FS that I use as my AIO for my Meze Empyrean. So thank you for all the Information provided, dear Hans! Just I now need to watch out for another streamer...

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You find the sub € 500 I reviewed in this playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLMbsmejHnP8HQxyYy3wyzX1w4V8b6Jy3n

[@FunkBass010]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for sharing the link! I will watch the videos and see how those streamers compare to something like the Bluesound Node X

[@user-mz6lt2pr9s]

Thank you for the video. Your analysis is very helpful. Keep up the great work!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks, will do!

[@middleearthltd]

The Wiim Ultra will be released by June so we shall see how much they up the performance and price point. I was going to get a Pro Plus but I will wait and see what the Ultra has to offer. If it is too far North of $400 I am not going there. I would just get a Mercury 3 or the Pro Plus.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Please don't hype products that are not yet on the market. It usually leads to irrational decisions.

[@middleearthltd]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel it may be your lack of understanding of English but hype would be saying that it is going to be great. I said no such thing. Please don’t accuse me of “hype” when all I said was that I was going to wait and see what the Wiim Ultra “has to offer” You should try and understand what hype means as that is zero hype. It is rational to wait for the imminent release of a new model if one interest in spending money on a new component. I never recommended buying it I recommended deliberation and patience. The exact opposite of hype and the definition of rational behavior.

[@cmessi]

And what about the Bluesound Node? It it of higher quality?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Sure

[@cmessi]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel do you have an opinion about equalizing? I have a traumatized left ear, sensitive for too much bass. Thinking about buying an equalizer (MiniDSP/Eversolo). I want to do a high pass filter at 65Hz for example. Do you think that will work well?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

In general I don't like using equalising since it causes time smearing. But for compensating ear problems it's a different matter.

[@sjefmous7219]

The cc is " slightly" off.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Sorry, I see what I can do

[@34332]

You have to upgrade your psu.

[@hermanvisser4034]

I bought a WiiM Pro and immediately put it back in its box, as I thought it sounded terrible compared to my Cocktail Audio X50D streamer. Do you think a Singxer SU6 can clean up its output, Hans?

[@Audiodreamer192-24]

Ya the wiim products are a good value entry point into streamers but not up to critical listening when compared to higher quality products.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Better invest is a higher quality streamer than trying to cure a poor digital signal.

[@boomcrash]

Hans has the best reviews. I love the way he presents and explains. Always an education.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

🙏🏻

[@gracenotes5379]

As an engineer with a signal processing and signal integrity background, I'd love to measure the impact of various streamers on the *audio* output of the connected DAC measured using Audio Precision or similar test equipment. For stereo imaging, one could use RMS vector error on a complex plane defined as (left) + j(right). As a music lover, I admit I am less than satisfied with a WiiM Pro Plus connected via S/PDIF than I am with an ARM-based SBC via USB into the same DAC (in asynchronous mode USB Audio).

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

The Audio Precision can’t measure that. My colleague Jaap Veenstra of alpha-audio.net does these measurements.

[@szh70]

What you say makes sense. The S/PDIF output is being clocked by a $.25 crystal most likely. The SBC/Pi would have the DAC’s more advanced/accurate clock handling the timing.

[@davidfairchild1640]

Yes, USB is the solution in nearly all cases - at least that is my experience. I use an RPI4 powered by an LPS and connected by USB to my DAC. The sound staging is very precise to my ears.

[@szh70]

Curious if you know about the quality of the USB output on the 4b. I know previous Pi’s had usb issues and always debate if I should get a USB galvanic isolator?

[@davidfairchild1640]

@@szh70 the RPI 4 and 5 separate the USB and Ethernet controllers/connections from a shared architecture, so that should help. Schitt brand of DACs have an indicator if they think the incoming source is poor, and that has never triggered with my RPI4. Any decent DAC should filter out a reasonable amount of electronic noise from an incoming signal.

[@philipteater3714]

For $18,000, or euro, you can make a wiim pro plus sound great! Love it.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You might have missed the point if you just find it funny.

[@philipteater3714]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I get the point, Hans. Great way to make it. The cost it takes to build in the isolation and immunity…

[@user-xl4nt8ep8d]

Tried similar streamers/DDCs like on this video. Interesting, observation explained in this video doesn't match my experience, and many other reviewers who tsted Wiim Pro (with LPSU) also didn't hear such a big difference. Hans has some extraordinary hearing even with the "budget" system, much better than me and almost all other reviewers.

[@erichhofer201]

alpha-audio had reviewed the pro plus and also got these results, digital outputs are bad at the Wiim

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Of course I. do have extraordinary hearing. It is said that I can even ear bats navigating😆. The real truth lies in having a very structural testing scheme and ditto setup.

[@rcavor74]

​@@erichhofer201Can you put the link on measurement results of Wiim Pro Plus (digital output especially) of Alpha audio? What was the test setup?

[@infn]

I recently ordered a Wiim Pro Plus to sate my curiousity about the quality of standalone streamers vs my dedicated Windows 11 streaming PC for audio, which uses a Matrix Audio Element H USB 3 PCIE card and an external iFi PSU. Both were used to feed my Audio-gd R7 R2R DAC via Tidal Hifi. There was a significant difference in transparency and clarity between the two, with my streaming PC setup being the superior option. Granted, the Wiim Pro Plus output to the DAC is SPDIF, versus the USB output from the PC, which might indicate that the USB interface on the DAC is superior to SPDIF, however, that in itself is likely a clear indicator of the quality of the Wiim Pro Plus streaming and digital output quality. I will be offloading the Wiim Plus and staying away from these ARM based streamers.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

👍🏼

[@dilbertpugh8517]

Thank you for this Hans; hype for the WiiM has been deafening recently. If it's is not the all conquering, cost defying ultimate streamer, can you rank it against recent streamers? It would be helpful to know where it sits against an Allo Usbridge Signature, an iFi Zen Stream, a Pecan Pi, a Stack Audio Link or an SotM sMS-200. You have been very impressed by a few of these but the air has been sucked out of their existence and they are almost never mentioned now.

[@michaelwright1602]

It is not the WiiM hardware that has everyone buzzing, it is the WiiM software. What good is a streamer if the software does not allow you to enjoy the music? I wish WiiM would license the software, then I may look to upgrade back to one of the much more expensive streamers I have had through here.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

They have licensed their software in the past in more upmarket equipment. Advance Paris was one of them if I remember well. But more upmarket equipment doesn't bring the volume needed to generate sufficient income. And that's needed for software development.

[@michaelwright1602]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I did not know that, thank you Hans.

[@RBA2022]

What a clear and informative explanation Hans. I learned a lot! Bedankt Rienus

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@michaelwright1602]

Thank you for another outstanding video! Just thinking of Amir, bits and analog... But, as a WiiM Pro owner, and user, I have owned better sounding streamers, no doubt about that. The reason the WiiM Pro is still here, and the others gone, is very simple, it is the software. What good is a streamer if the software will not allow you to enjoy the music? I wish WiiM would license their software, as I would be first in line to drop a grand or more on a high quality device to stream my music. But, here we are. Let us see what the WiiM Ultra brings to the table! Thank you Hans.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

My pleasure

[@BobGeogeo]

Thanks for the video. It would have neen better if you inclded the actual wave forms instead of generalizing.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

See my pinned comment

[@2madamimadam290]

I upgraded from a Wiim Pro to Denafrips Arce. The difference was noticable and not in my head. My GF who is not an audiophile at all agreed and actually preferred the Wiim. To me the Arce had better separation, soundstage and leading edge attack. However, the midbass felt thinner. The Wiim was fuller where the Arce seemed to have more noticeable bass tone note to note. I prefer the Arce. Roon let me setup both and i could synchronize the same song and go back and forth. Bits may be bits but transferring a digital stream can be affected by the equipment IMO. Great review. Much appreciated.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks 🙏

[@TheAlphaAudio]

Well explained Hans!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

🙏🏽

[@bradbortner2601]

😅I became a believer in “bits are not bits” when I tried inserting an ifi pure 2 spdif in chain between a sonos port and a denafrips ares 2 dac. This reclocks the signal and galvanically isolates it. The difference was stark. Deeper base, better imaging. I suspect if I had a streamer that output usb, I would notice something similar. The problem I face is that the sonos software really is better. If I moved to something else, I’d really miss universal search across music services, as well as the solid integration with Amazon’s alexa ecosystem.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

There are companies that improve the Sonos streamers significantly. Here in my country it's Magna (magnahifi.com/sonos-connect-ultimo/) but there are more. They sound great but are limited to 48 kHz.

[@JazzinBlues]

Must be nice.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Very!

[@Chris-hy6jy]

This video is worthless unless you're going to analyse the audio data. Perform "packet" capture of the received data. Only then can you see if there truly is a difference. Also, you say a 25 cent clock is worse than the more expensive one but don't in anyway quantify this. Whats the frequency accuracy and drift? How does that effect bit error for all three streamers? Very little detail here.

[@philipteater3714]

Disagree. I trust Hans’ ears. The judgement 🤭

[@philipteater3714]

The instrument of the ear combined with the brain’s decoding is remarkable which is why many love this hobby. Some do not trust themselves but do put their trust in crude, external measurements. And my undergraduate degree received many moons ago was electrical engineering

[@philipteater3714]

I appreciate measurements but they are derivative to what I hear, even if audiofooled, in sonic bliss

[@Chris-hy6jy]

@@philipteater3714 so if you performed data analysis on the audio stream received by the DAC and found out that all three streamers were providing 100% the same data, you'd still say there could be a difference in the audio quality? I'm not saying there isn't a difference, I'm saying measure it so we know exactly what the difference is.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I have published several videos on the subject of audio degradation in digital sources. Measuring jitter in the 'digital signal', like SPDIF, USB AC2, Ethernet and so on, does not bring answers. It became clear that the jitter has to be measured on the clock input of the digital to analog converter chip in the DAC or player. My colleague Jaap Veenstra of Alpha-Audio.net has invested lots of time and money into doing these measurements. I have reported on hir early measurements in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHSpp3ywr7KknM0. It has little to do with what people with network education have learned Rather it has to do with knowledge of how the brain interprets audio signals. Again I made several videos on this subject.

[@brown-eyedman4040]

As always, thank you sir. It is my opinion, worthless as it is, that the same "bits is bits" folks are the same ones who don't hear differences in cables. Which is OK with me, go with what you hear. But if someone does hear a difference, don't minimize their experience.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Fair enough!

[@Woofy-tm8si]

Well, THAT explains why my Wiim Pro's sound is almost unrecognizable from when it first arrived. It's currently powered by an LHY linear power supply and it's connected via coax to my Denafrips Hermes digital processor that is connected to my Denafrips Pontus II R2R DAC via i²s. The Hermes uses OCXO-based clocks to reclock the original data stream after electrically isolating the data stream from the original digital digital source.

[@usswia]

Interesting post as I was looking at a similar combination. I would have thought the Cyan2 reclocks the data but I'm not sure. So I think you are saying that the limitations and SQ issues outlined by Hans (i.e. the Wiim clock) are mitigated by the superior OCXO clock on the Hermes, before feeding a superior DAC

[@jakobgooijer]

​@@usswiathat would be the case if the Wiim had a USB output . The connection with the Hermes would be asynchrone

[@Charles12509]

You can hear the difference?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Reclocking requires an extremely stable voltage to the DAC, extremely good flip-flops and buffers that are very fast. Therefore it's always better to start off with a clean, well clocked digital signal on the input. Therefore spend as much as you can afford on the digital source. Preventing is far better than curing.

[@timenchanter4095]

Love the 😅 the usability and versatility and love the price. I love the way it makes my budget setup sound like a budget system with the pro ( priceless ). One more thing it has a remote, and you can add a dac ....ps I have porcupine tree in every room in my house and in my garden. Shedd lol