Daf Reactions Bava Metzia 59: The Oven of Akhnai

Shalom friends! This is arguably THE most famous, most quoted story in the #talmud. But have you heard it like this before? Gehennom, no! Welcome to #DafReactions Bava Metzia 59: The Oven of Akhnai. 🔥

[@tomgarven]

"I invite you to tell it to a carob tree who gives a %&@$" should be on a tee shirt. Everything about this was phenomenal.

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Thank you, Tom!!! I read that last line from MY SOUL!

[@tomgarven]

Oh, I definitely felt it in mine.

[@abilevitt3334]

Omg yes!

[@brookechang4942]

I 100% support this being on a shirt.

[@jdm314]

I have no words. You are just too awesome. I guess i should have known your Oven of Akhnai would be this good.

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Thank you! I do what I can! And it was a good Daf :)

[@brookechang4942]

I AM KVELLING SO HARD RIGHT NOW! 😍 I've waited for this video from the first time I saw your channel, and it is everything I hoped for. My only regret is that it'll be another seven years before you cover it again! 😂 (And it was even my birthday this week, so I'm 100% taking this as a birthday present!) Key takeaways from this daf: 1. The sages will argue with LITERALLY ANYBODY, and the definition of "chutzpah" needs to be changed to "telling God to stay in His lane". 2. There is no greater power in this world than the ability to cite your sources. 3. If you're going to punish a self-absorbed, misogynistic, inexplicably powerful jackass, make sure you have a contingency plan. (This is annoyingly relevant in the present day.) Thank you SO MUCH for this video! ❤❤❤

[@MiriamAnzovin]

You should know, I wrote this thinking: “this one is for Brooke!!!” I agree with ALL of your points, ever! single! one! JUSTICE FOR IMMA SHALOM!

[@brookechang4942]

@@MiriamAnzovin omg, I'm touched! 🥰 And yes, justice for Imma Shalom! I'd say I wish Rabbi Eliezer would've listened to her, but who am I kidding? We all know he would've just accused her of being a promiscuous airhead... 🙄 But then maybe he would've divorced her and let her find someone better? We can only hope!

[@MiriamAnzovin]

I do not understand their relationship. Kind of like Beruriah and Meir - like, Meir is kind of a d0uche and Beruriah is so far above his level

[@brookechang4942]

@MiriamAnzovin I like to think Beruriah and Imma Shalom would sit together, have a coffee, and talk about their husbands developing shpilkis in their genechtagazoinks. Or, y'know, sit on a beach drinking margaritas from Choma-sized cups. Edit: "If you teach your daughter Torah, she'll be promiscuous!" Why? Because she'll be educated enough to see your shit for what it is? Ugh! 🙄

[@brookechang4942]

@@MiriamAnzovin Hm, YT deleted my comment. I like to think Beruriah and Imma Shalom would hang out on a beach together and drink margaritas from Choma-sized cups while they complain about their husbands. Also, what does it say about Eliezer that he KNEW Imma Shalom had learned Torah and married her anyway? 🙄

[@allisons.1155]

Wow. Just wow. I didn't think the daf would go from "it's better to have sex with a married woman and be unalived by capital punishment, because at least you still have a place in the World to Come, than to be an a-hole, because the only place you are going, forever, is Gehennah" to Rabbis vs Rabbi scorched earth...but here we are. (I thought that first point was great, and wish I had known it back when I was being super abused as a sport by my Orthodox ex boss and his sons and the guests they would have in the office. While they were doing daf yomi and had very obviously gone to the best Yeshivas, they missed the part about how to treat others. Yes I'm still hurting. It sent me on a very bad path that changed my life). Now I will read Rabban Gamliel as Gimli (not the first time) and want to believe that carob tree would have carried him to Isengard for safety. I thank you for this excellent reaction, from an excellent daf that we could all learn from.

[@davidyoung745]

I’m so glad I found this channel and so very impressed by you.

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Welcome, friend!

[@abilevitt3334]

Omfg!!!!!!!! The ending though! Mind blown by how you relayed that. Oh wow! This is just, wow. Like your best ever!!!!! Thank you, sister!!!!!! 😭❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@abilevitt3334]

Also, I feel like no one holds a grudge against an amora with the patience that you do! 😂😂😂

[@MiriamAnzovin]

I’m so glad you enjoyed it - it may be my all time favorite!!!!

[@Neidzwiedz1]

Just caught your conversation with Dr. Justin Sledge on Esoterica. So of course I had to come over and check out you channel. Absolutely brilliant!

[@alanweissman5774]

Thank you this is priceless and God bless you

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Thank you so much!

[@Darlenemarshallauthor]

Brilliant Torah. Thank you again for sharing.

[@MiriamAnzovin]

And thank you for watching!!!!

[@flyfisherj3511]

Brilliant. Educational. And funny.

[@MiriamAnzovin]

One of my personal faves. I’m so glad you enjoyed it!

[@arioctober]

Love your videos so much 😂❤

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Thank you so much!

[@bobbergerson5401]

What a way to wake up u r so so good

[@uroghai3439]

There's an interesting reading here about the oven itself and its status as metaphors for different approaches to maintaining post-exilic Judaism, with a relatively centralized and unified approach winning out over an approach that preferred local authority. Which is especially interesting, I think, in light of the fact that if one reads it that way, Rabbi Eliezer's approach eventually won out in the end despite being forcefully rejected by the rabbanim of his time.

[@MiriamAnzovin]

There are many fascinating ways to read this story, no doubt! There’s a reason why it’s the best known most quoted!

[@StardragonTheCanadian]

Even unrepentant Anglican I knew the first part of the story, although had not known the point being disputed was about an oven.

[@StardragonTheCanadian]

So technically right, like the Big Voice said.

[@cindywright4591]

Love it!!!

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Yay!

[@markkerzner]

Wonderful. Keep doing it!

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Thank you Mark!!!

[@theprinceofdarkness4679]

I know I am the outsider here but to me it looks like there is a crisis in Judaism it doesn't look like enough people are studying Torah what with Christian missionary inroads it may be time to start drafting/recruiting women to study torah if not just giving a strong encouragement in that way seems like I recall a saying something like "for lack of knowledge the people perish" or maybe I just made that up either I know I should probably keep my big mouth shut on this matter but I guess I am lacking a little discipline anyways thanks for doing because it helps me learn about the answers to questions that I didn't know how to ask

[@MiriamAnzovin]

I'm not sure why you refer to yourself as an outsider, even if you don't happen to be Jewish or something you are still absolutely welcome here on this channel! I think there are several things going on regarding studying Jewish texts. And yes, absolutely I think the Christian missionary internet takeover of Jewish topics is for sure a big problem. When I google a Jewish concept, I don't what the top results to be from christian organizations. I will add that many, MANY! Jewish women study and teach torah, including in many Orthodox communities (except the most hard line.) But I have also personally observed that within Jewish communities I have been a part of, sometimes there seems to be an instinct to...dull the learning down? Make it more sanitized/child friendly? When anyone who has cracked open a bible could tell you...it's highly NSFW/TMI/etc etc etc. Hence, this is why my videos are also NSFW in the language I use. My goal here is to explore the good, the bad, the meh, the profound, and the profane, and be authentic with my encounters with what I learn in the text. I hope others find the inspiration to discover modes of learning that work best for them :-)

[@theprinceofdarkness4679]

@@MiriamAnzovin by outsider I meant that I am a big fan of Judaism but did not grow up with the advantage of have either a Jewish mom or dad & I had to get out of my parents' house before I even attended a synagogue or temple (my parents are Christian) I also wish that I had been a little more diligent in learning Hebrew before I graduated from high school I had a good feeling about you from the get-go but I thought others on the internet might not be so charitable & I also just didn't want anyone to think I was trying to butt in "without invitation" besides that I know that I am lacking in some of the knowledge that would be considered basic & when I did find your channel I knew it was my chance to compensate for "not growing up Jewish" I really like your channel for being really entertaining & at the same time I actually learn something because you talk about so many things that I have never heard of I mean that I must have been wasting my time by talking to the wrong people or reading the wrong books or who knows what anyways thank you for making this channel because it is everything that I didn't even know that I needed

[@pepepena1937]

Is there a passage in entire Tanakh where a *MAJORITY* of Israelites doing the right thing? Let alone overwriting GOD and to top it off GOD admitting intellectual defeat. I don’t recall one

[@MiriamAnzovin]

@@pepepena1937 a majority? No. But a majority isn’t necessarily doing the “right thing” here either. The closest I can think of to an instance where God agreed yeah, good points are being made, is when Machlah, Noa, Choglah, Milcha, and Tirtzah offer their righteous critique

[@abilevitt3334]

I'm reading Sotah 21 and Rabbi Yehoshua is almost worse. She values sex with her husband over more food so she can't learn Torah???? Oh because all these male sages don't care about sex at all... Don't think about it, don't talk about it, don't come up with ridiculous situations to do with it... Do they not hear themselves??????

[@johannayaffe2647]

Kol hakavod !

[@MiriamAnzovin]

I’ve been hanging on to this rant for a whole year and it was finally time! Thank you!!

[@azjaguardesign]

"Loss of Consortium," a #Tort! ... #L1 😊 2:56

[@mleibov595]

Would like to know his reasoning why a woman studying torah and talmud would make them promiscuous. Seems like they would have a lot less time if they were so inclined.

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Because then women know how to defer the Sotah ritual

[@extinctmesozoicerabeast4508]

Would you be at all interested in having a discussion about these types of Gemaras that seem to be controversial. Tbh your videos are very entertaining but I do disagree with you on some points you’ve made and would like to discuss them with you. Would love to get in contact with you if you’re interested

[@debraoffenhartz2957]

Never liked carob anyways. Kol haKavod.

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Carob is a lying food. People say it tastes like chocolate. It doesn’t. And I don’t even LIKE chocolate! 😂

[@debraoffenhartz2957]

Carob is a chocolate imposter, says She who loves a deep dark cocao. Tho I did sit under a carob tree on a hiking tour in Israel decades ago. Felt like a Prophetress, my namesake! In true Talmudic fashion, I digress...

[@azjaguardesign]

#Promiscuous-airheads ... That'll never get him a date. An hour of beat-down by the "beat-down" brigade maybe, but never a date! 😮 4:41

[@MiriamAnzovin]

Imma shalom was sooooo too good for him. I remember the first time a person threw Rabbi Eliezer’s words at me, when I began this project. So this time, IT’S PERSONAL!!!

[@azjaguardesign]

@MiriamAnzovin : It appears I inadvertently have a knack for uncovering the teacher's "personal" dislikes! #SHFT 🐳

[@MiriamAnzovin]

….yeah I don’t like being called a whore.

[@booboo3127]

Love it ❤😂