Dagor Dagorath (The Final Battle of Arda) - Wars of the Legendarium

Dagor Dagorath is the Battle of Battles and the Last Battle within Tolkien’s legendarium, prefacing the end of time, and the remaking of the world in the Second Music of the Ainur. Thank you all so much for watching, I really hope you all liked it! Please let me know what you think of Dagor Dagorath in the comments below. As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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[@denniscleary7580]

I love this prophecy because it means my boy turin Will return from the dead and drive is black sword through Melkors heart.

[@willackerman9557]

"Gurthang - Iron of Death" really is one of the coolest sword names/coolest swords ever.

[@grapeabbas7043]

@x33mmm lol

[@jmitch5634]

@Aggressive Tubesock it’s clearly in reference to the Tolkien character, get a grip mate.

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

@Aggressive Tubesock Better then being a snowflake like you.

[@iwannabethekid34xc]

@Aggressive Tubesock lord of the rings is inherently implicitly white supremacist. Pretty based tbh

[@harrisonmcarthur7816]

A Day may come, when the Courage of Men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bounds of fellowship. But it is not this day! An hour of Wolves and shattered shields when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we Fight! For all that you hold dear, on this good earth, I bid you STAND, MEN OF THE WEST!!!!

[@merrymerryjerry6736]

-that is a movie quote and as such is null and void-

[@killercour]

MerryMerryJerry you mean an epic quote

[@archeryandrandomness8602]

MerryMerryJerry it is a movie quote, but it is also one of the only really book-worthy quote in the movie.

[@Eddiedoherty22]

Harrison Mcarthur love it. Well said..

[@harrisonmcarthur7816]

Hey, it was King Aragorn who said it, not I sir.

[@danielreed3718]

Me not paying attention: This guy: Morgoth is coming back Me: *drops my croissant*

[@KS-xk2so]

I like to think that while the Valar, and Elves, and Men are all singing the second song and creating a new world, Tom Bombadil would sudden pop in and start laying down some sick raps, while Goldberry beat-boxed.

[@archades115]

I understand that the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath is supposed to represent hope and justice at the end. But I find it to be sad. That the Valar, Elves, Men, Arda itself has grown old and weary. And only then will Morgoth return to make one last pitiful bid for supremacy. Yet Morgoth and the forces of Shadow are also old and weary. Yet both continue on as before. It makes me think of how human nature never truly changes, no matter how advanced or sophisticated we become.

[@Jen-Yueh_Hu]

We can change and become better versions of ourselves. But we need help obviously. Without all the help from the Undying Lands, Middle Earth would have been wiped out a long time ago.

[@alonsoarana5307]

@Jeffrey Kelley all religions are as fictional as JRR Tolkien's works. There is no apocalypse, just a bunch of big egos in suits and with more money than a person could ever spend in a lifetime destroying our livelihoods. If there is a God, it's like that philosophical debate: he's either not all powerful and can't intervene with all this crap going on and therefore not almighty or worthy of being worshipped, or he is malignant, and does this for his own amusement and therefore is an evil being

[@Turamwdd]

@@alonsoarana5307 Or three, he is giving us exactly what we, as a society, wish. And, as you admit, we are royally fucking it up even worse than before.

[@arckocsog253]

Alonso Arana Your summary is very good. I don’t think there’s a god. It’s just big egos in suits and coincidence.

[@lancemannly]

A central theme of Tolkien, maybe even *the* central theme, is that immortality is undesirable. The Gift of Men is that they're able to die and thus go live within the halls of Iluvatar. The recurring description Tolkien uses over and over is that the longer someone or something exists the more weary it becomes and thus an end is necessary but your end is never the end which is why the Dagor Dagorath ends in a rebirth

[@MrDale53]

I just finished Christopher Tolkien's last work, THE FALL OF GONDOLIN. At the end of the book he includes his father's writing that ended the original Silmarillion, including the Last Battle and the 2nd Prophecy of Mandos. It's wonderful that he quoted it (without reservations of any kind) in his final book!

[@EvilSandwich]

I did a d20 modern game years ago about Dagor Dagorath. The players were modern day humans in our world being guided by The Last Istari. The Last Istari is the last surviving Blue Wizard that disappeared from the records because his assignment was to go to the New Lands that were formed after the end of the second age and the reshaping of the world (The Americas) and prepare the people there for the return of Morgoth. One Blue Wizard went to the Northern New Land and the other went to the Southern New Land. But The Last Istari lost contact with his southern counterpart after the continent was conquered by Spain in the 16th century. The players were supposed to find the reincarnation of Turin so The Last Istari could prepare him before the dark forces found him first. Things took a turn for the worse when Marin's Bane, a Balrog that was asleep inside the San Andreas Fault, was awoken by an earthquake and laid waste to San Francisco, turning it into the dark city of Gû kîbum Burzum-ishi (No life in Darkness) and began the process of remaking a replacement for the Orcs from human stock, making a new race called the Krimpash (the bound ones) and to use Gû kîbum Burzum-ishi as a launching point to take North America for Morgoth. The game got crazy lol

[@TheCrimsonOne508]

This is a courtesy reply to let you know I’m stealing this idea and I’m gonna run something similar

[@EvilSandwich]

@@TheCrimsonOne508 by all means! I'm flattered that you like it. :)

[@DaDitka]

That is seriously a cool concept you came up with! Thanks for sharing. I am running an Adventures in Middle Earth game for some friends of mine. The overall story is that contrary to what was thoughts one of the Seven Dwarven Rings had been found by a woman of Lake-Town, and she is amassing an army to attempt to overrun Erebor and Dale (this is set in the Third Age, of course). We play about once per month and everyone seems like they are having a blast. I know I am Happy Gaming!

[@simix6915]

Would like to see the blue wizard's face when he learned about New Zealand

[@SuSpence60]

I would LOVE to see a silmeril movie! But the talent would have to be stronger than Eru

[@chevin0]

I'm hoping that is what the new show will be. a big enough budget and enough seasons to do it justice.

[@SuSpence60]

Right?! I mean ,1 billion dollars is plenty to use for a series!

[@billmiller4972]

as long as it is not directed by PeterJackson

[@johnnybgood774]

Its coming

[@shahzabeshah7304]

Johnny Bgood Is it? How do you know.

[@1estel1ch.42]

Morgoth: I have dragons, balrogs, millions of orcs and monsters. Humans: we have nukes.

[@MrHistory269]

*flash*

[@albussr1589]

We have a HULK!!

[@sarwatarannya8786]

Not sure even a nuke could take down ancalagon

[@1estel1ch.42]

@@sarwatarannya8786 what about a *big* nuke

[@michaeldriggers7681]

@@sarwatarannya8786 I don't know, last time he was taken out by a flying boat.

[@JoaoPedro-qp9cw]

What if the Ents got the One Ring? I've read it somewhere: "My son wanted to know what would happen if an Ent got the One Ring. Something violent, probably. Stones will break, and roots will squeeze, vines will grow and bend all knees; mushrooms hunt and thorn yolk; weeds strangle and flowers choke. The age of skin is done. The hour of bark is come. Baruuum"

[@jebpayne1710]

João Pedro hmm the ring grows and shrinks in size but would if grow enough to fit an Ents finger? Can Ents be corrupted?

[@JoaoPedro-qp9cw]

Jeb Payne considering the Huorns, I think an Ent can be corrupted

[@jebpayne1710]

João Pedro probably could, Tom Bombadil is the only one who cant be corrupted

[@supremeleadersmeagol6345]

João Pedro I

[@wesley3300]

João Pedro would be interesting, but more than anything I love that verse.

[@jebpayne1710]

This is such an interesting topic to me, i love that Turin Turambar, a man, kills Melkor in the end as he avenged his family and all of the free peoples. Tolkien made it clear that men can both do very evil deeds (such as numenoreans and the nazgul) and very great deeds (killing dragons, resistance to the dark lords, etc) which is something i loved within his writings.

[@molsy1768]

While you're right in most, remember nazguls have nothing to do with the state of man. They are simply extensions of Mairon's will, and it is unknown if the elves could resist his will.

[@jebpayne1710]

@@molsy1768 men, out of all the free peoples, are the ones who fell the most for corruption throughout history

[@molsy1768]

@@jebpayne1710 that is because the efforts of morgoth and sauron were focused on men. Look at the history of the elves or dwarves, no one is immune to corruption, and neither has Tolkien ever wrote that any one race was more susceptible to corruption

[@chucknorris202]

@@molsy1768 The Elves can't resist Sauron's will being fed directly into their minds via the One Ring. Not even Gil Galad or Galadriel or Elrond. Its why they took their rings off the second Sauron forged and claimed the Ring, since it shook the Earth and they knew they were betrayed. Similar, but FAR more powerful, to how when Frodo gets to the Sammath naur, and the Ring finally overcomes his will, and he claims it, all the Free Peoples know what happened, and can feel the change in the earth itself. Likewise when the Ring was destroyed by accident. Honestly I'm kinda interested in what kind of ring Saruman would make. It said that if someone HAD claimed the Ring during the late third age and defeated Sauron with it(but couldnt destroy it obviously), Saruman would have bided his time until he could make his way to Mordor and discover the lost secrets of making the Rings of Power, and eventually make his own Ring of Power he would infuse his own spirit into. It'd be interesting to know what abilities it would have. Maybe it would just be a less powerful version of the One Ring; and either one would greatly boost Sarumans voice, to the point that nobody at all could resist his words.

[@ventusleone]

I would have loved if feanor joined the battle against his sworn enemy and reclaimed the silmarills himself. Then, when giving them freely to the maiar for the good of Arda, he would still have fufilled his sworn oath of reclaiming them.

[@HighLordBlazeReborn]

True, but I think Turin was always going to be the one. Feanor didn't really suffer much personally at Melkor's hand. Most of Feanor's problems were caused by his pride and obstinacy. Turin on the other hand had his entire life and reality fucked over by Melkor. If there was one single individual that has an axe to grind with Bauglir, it's my boy Turin.

[@JoshMorgantheNinja]

We must also remember that Feänor was to be held in the Halls of Mandos until after Dagor Dagorath happens for the wicked deeds he committed in life like threatening Fingolfin with a sword in Valimar, stealing the ships of the Teleri, and the Kinslaying at Alqualonde.

[@ishouldhavebeencareful]

I would like that, too, but I think deep down I know that Fëanor does not deserve it.

[@jimmuthedeath1215]

This is actually a very beautiful conclusion to the story.

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

I love how Tolkien took some inspiration, from Ragnorok, the Norse end of days. I very much believe that this prophesy (in-Universe) is real, and that at some point in Arda, it will happen. Out of the entirety of the Prophecy, my favorite part would have to be when essentially all of the heroes of the past (Aragorn, Legolas etc.) are brought back to battle Morgoth. It honestly brings joy to my heart, knowing that all of my favorite characters would come back to battle the ultimate evil, one last time! :) Anyway Yoystan, awesome video (loved your latest What if btw, Bilbo discovering the Ring was imo one of the most important events in the entirety of the Legendarium and I love your little twist on what if he never did!) see ya in the next one! :)

[@Sonicbitter100]

Luke Skywalker the 2nd most of his end day inspiration is actually from the book of revelations in the bible. Melkor is baisically the devil

[@SynValorum]

and the Valar who oppose him are the lesser gods under the rule of one God, mixing pagan and christian principles of the Earth and its balance.

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

edinbitter Yeah true. Though I have noticed some things that are similar to the Norse Myths! :)

[@tazzerdevil98]

Edin bitter its similar to what we know of ragnarok as it was changed by christians but we dont know how much. As the 2nd song is much like the gods that hid inside the world tree would sing a new song to bring new beings to live in midgard

[@nicholasyoung3786]

It is a mixture of both more than likely

[@thesenate1260]

I gotta say while I do love Morgoth, he's just a literal embodiment of evil whose only drive is endless hate. I love Sauron as a character more because rather then mindlessly destroy things like the Elvish kingdoms, Sauron would prefer to corrupt and dominate, because Sauron sees that Middle-Earth can only function under a central authority. Nevertheless, both Dark Lords are some of literature's most terrifying and powerful beings.

[@farahahmed8201]

I love morgoth more than sauron more than any villan ever made

[@Phoenix-King-ozai]

@@farahahmed8201 yeah, Morgoth is..... Morgoth

[@MountainFisher]

As always Yoystan, good and leaving us wanting more.

[@micahdunwoody6555]

I think that's awesome! A battle AFTER the events of "Lord of the Rings"! Astounding!

[@breakhammer87]

I am pretty sure that Sauron and Gothmog are returning for this as well... i remember reading it on ardapedia....

[@Phoenix-King-ozai]

Yup

[@Integer_Overload]

This is my favorite tale of Tolkiens work

[@tarinakertoo]

4am but had to stay awake for this and im clad i did. Great video, as always.

[@jegsdinogod5091]

Morgoth comes back.... Humanity: *a10 warthogs* Morgoth: "....Shit"

[@Feanor6450]

yeah morgoth remakes the mighty kingdom of angband and begins the war once again... for about 2 days before america decides he is being a nuisance and nukes the place

[@Davidofthelost]

@@Feanor6450 “AC-130 Above!”

[@alphonsesenjutsu]

I want to see Feänor back in the Dagor Dagorath and redeem Himself. He's my favorite character from Tolkien #TeamFeänor

[@vidzumer365]

My favorite is Melkor.

[@MrDale53]

He is indeed included. After the Battle is won, in Tolkien's 1958 text: "Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and he will break them and with their fire Yavanna will rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth."

[@goochmcduck4285]

He’s pretty incredible. He definitely messed up. Be nice for him to fix that.

[@Phoenyx7Rising]

I'm glad Turin was able to redeem himself and avenge all of Man in the end. Ole chap had a rough life, and made some bad decisions, but still met each battle with valor. At the end of 'Children' I was glad he defeated Glaurung, but I wished he could have done more against Melkor himself. Perhaps the removal of Glaurung bought time, or even helped influence the War of Wrath. I hope we can see these stories on the big screen one day.

[@henrikg1388]

As long as Peter Jackson stays far away from that project, then yes!

[@DarkCellsCustodes]

This is for sure one of my favorite channels. Such incredible content, thank you guys so much for this knowledge and entertainment! Help me get through the bad days a lot!

[@saudghaith92]

Love from Iraq. You touch our lives with these videos ❤

[@ChiodosBlowsDogs]

I know this comment is really old but, I'm glad tolkien is loved everywhere.

[@davidsandlin9686]

What if Morgoth showed back up and was like you guys were right I was a dick. I apologize. I had a lot of time to think out in that timeless void and I’ve decided to come back to the light. You guys wanna grab a couple vats of ale and kick back with some of that hobbit weed? I picked up a new smoking device from some other level of existence called earth. Gandalf wait til you see this thing earth men call the Bong.

[@FatGouf]

david sandlin "were not falling for that again! Melkor! Use rock smash!" *Melkoooor*

[@LordWyatt]

Malchior: Ah man, I can’t wait to see my best bud Sauron! Hobbits: ...

[@JoshMorgantheNinja]

@@FatGouf Pokemon reference for the win

[@Patrick-it8nk]

I really love to hear more that I didn't read, or managed to miss, on my readings of Tolkien's works. Your take on his writings are just fantastic, and one of the primary reasons I watch every video you release. This subject had always intrigued me, and I'd been conflicted as to whether it's disappointing that the end of days was never expounded upon, but the fact that it wasn't also gives it a mysterious and looming presence with references dotting his writings. Really makes it interesting to me.

[@saintsrowandmasseffect4lif825]

Yessssss!! One of my favorite channels has uploaded again I been here since 150 subscribers and I can't get enough of your stuff I mean I already know about everything you post but I love hearing you talk about it it's just so good also can you please do a '' what if aragorn had taken the one ring'' theory I love those sorts of videos

[@MenoftheWest]

Thank you for your long time support friend, I really appreciate it! That would be a fun video to make, I'll make sure it happens!

[@saintsrowandmasseffect4lif825]

Men of the West no problem I'm still gonna be here even after you reach a million subs

[@EmrysMerlin8807]

Here's an interesting "What if": What if there was never a Durin's Bane in Moria?

[@JoaoPedro-qp9cw]

Cory Morgan Maybe there would be a Smaug in Moria instead

[@jebpayne1710]

João Pedro Possibly, but smaug came from the north so he may or may not have ventured that far south.

[@jebpayne1710]

I like this idea, personally i feel like the dwarven armies would of been much stronger in the War of the ring. No scattered dwarves or no War of Dwarves and Orcs. Thranduil's people and Dale's people may have suffered in the War of the Ring though, if no durins bane there may not be a kingdom in erebor. Then Easternling would have swept through dale. Then thranduil would of been attacked by easterlings and possibly those in dol guldor

[@EmrysMerlin8807]

João Pedro I agree. I don't think that Smaug would have gone that far south and even if he did, I think that Moria at it's height was too well defended, much more so than Laketown was. It's my belief that either A) the dwarves would have continued to delve for Mythril and eventually delved into the very foundations of the earth itself, releasing the Nameless Ones into the upper world, B) eventually, they would have exausted every single vein of Mythril and the metal would have become so common a commodity that every single soldier of dwarf, man, elf, and Hobbit would have owned a coat of Mythril arms, or C) Sauron himself would either take notice of it and taken control of Moria or at the very least would have sent the Witch King to take command of the providence, simply for its vast mines. There's the final option, as well, and I think the only possible "Happy" option: Moria runs dry of Mythril before the dig too deep to release the Nameless Ones, and the dwarves continue to inhabit and control the vast empire-realms of Moria as the single largest race currently in Middle Earth.

[@youtoob4life]

That would be an interesting one. I think the Dwarves would've been able to control most of, if not all the Misty Mountains. Depending on who was ruling at the time, and whether he had a ring of power, Dwarven armies might've marched out to help the Elves in the east and Men in the south.

[@pete8996]

Always happy to see an upload from you :D

[@rudeboy15]

Finds video, watches it, subscribes, watches a whole bunch more.

[@benwest3223]

Eru Iluvatar is always watching. The suffering of his creatures is not forgotten.

[@michaelsunde7540]

I would never change anything in Tolkien's work. It's just too precious and too brilliant

[@Bru21om]

Absolute Mithril quality Yoystan!!

[@pietro3477]

Now, i came here after finishing “The Fall of Gondolin” to say that there is more text about Dagor Dagorath.

[@kaoutherguelmame9572]

Were please?

[@KillerBeastHeadshotman]

We are with you Road to 100k💪😉

[@dayshallcomeagain]

Tolkien is an absloute genius and I have no idea how he was able to create such a rich world.

[@SevenPr1me]

World war 1 gave him severe ptsd and writing was his catharsis

[@antichristobama9127]

it is based on the truth of the Bible

[@faizanhussain5650]

I don't comment to videos on KZbin but your videos urged me to participate in this comment section. Thank you for sharing these with us filled with great joy and happiness!

[@pedrocastaneda5398]

I just want a film of this last battle. Ofcourse, this will be far... far in the future but i hope we can see some good cgi of the original actors of lotr and hobbit and of the new middle tv show. How I view the battle is when the first cord of the second song begins. Then throughout the battle the song plays. The different races (men, elves and dwarfs) are shown in their own color light. Men could be golden. Elves could be moonlight blue. The dwarves can be Mithril Silver. The evil forces can have a Dark light with redish and orange colors hues. Thats how i view the film but im not a director so don’t bash me to much.

[@DavidOfWhitehills]

Ents and Tom Bombadill and River Daughter in emerald green. What colour the Eagles?

[@pedrocastaneda5398]

Acharacle & Achiltibuie rosen gold or like the wizards a White light

[@DavidOfWhitehills]

Frodo and Sam will be in rainbow.

[@richmartzeni946]

I've always been so eager for any bit of information regarding the Last Battle. Whether Hobbits would join in that battle to represent their race, Gandalf would fight in his true form of Olorin, or if Tom Bombadil would have any kind of appearance (if he even cared enough to show up, that is!), or the many more stories that could've been following the LOTR and The Last Battle. Great show as always, sir!

[@vorlon72]

Great video Yoystan. I agree that it makes more sense for Turin to kill Morgoth after all the torment he's been through. Manwe would probably weep for his dead brother and regret the necessity of his death.

[@danielmorgan4134]

Mae g"ovannen I consider myself very informed concerning Tolkiens universe and his entire legendarium. I have the Elvish dictionary every single book I think that has been published. Until I came acrossed a video that you had put up telling the tale of Beren and Lúthien. And of course I was aware of there Tale that was scattered throughout many different books and different stories characters would tell each other. But I paused the video in the middle because I didn't want any spoilers LOL . I found out that tokens grandson I believe published a book telling their entire Adventure piecing it together and staying as true as you possibly could and of course I had to have it LOL. So I still haven't finished your video concerning the Two Lovers. Which in my opinion is an absolute beautiful love story. And a very nice look into the Elder days. So I would just like to thank you for this channel I just happened to stumble upon it I truly appreciate what you do and hope that you have no plans on stopping because I have watched every single video that you have made and they only keep getting better thank you very much for your hard work. Because someone that is just as obsessed as I suppose you are lol concerning the best piece of fiction ever written has even learned a thing or two by watching these videos so good job.

[@MT-kx7ff]

HOORAAAAY, AN UPLOAD!

[@hbwraithlegends1080]

I wish I give you 10mil subcers since you deserve this

[@zachstevens7382]

Hayden Brown very true but don't let the success go to your head. you do this for the joy of it too and sharing lotr tolkiens great works.

[@K0k3sak]

I like to imagine that after the final battle the whole world is changed to the point it becomes our Earth we live on. Really love the idea of walking the same soil Aragorn, Frodo and others walked at some point in time :)

[@efjay3183]

You can truly draw a lot of parallels between Dagor Dagorath and Ragnarök from Norse mythology, the outcome and the deeds of all involved has already been for-told. This is not surprising since Tolkien was obsessed with Norse mythology and he based a lot of his works on it.

[@younggrasshopper3531]

Thanks Joysten for another quality work of art and lorebuilding! Tolkien definitely was inspired by biblical scripture (among other things of course) this chapter taking themes from Revelation. This story parallels CS Lewis and The Last Battle, in which this world passes, and a new one begins =)

[@ShaneSur23]

All mythologies are reflections and refractions of one another.

[@ToyosatomimiNoThug]

I like the Túrin version the best

[@Valaraukar8187]

The Dagor Dagorath is the metaphorical “clean slate” that Tom Petty sang about, just magnified to encompass all of everything.

[@eugenesagan212]

Every video is of high quality! Thoroughly enjoy watching them all

[@chevin0]

love it! I don't actually want a detailed telling or showing of this battle because it could never do the master himself justice, but I love the hinting and allusions and it basically being Ragnarok. can't wait to see what you post next, these videos are just such fun!

[@gobigblue6782]

I agree that Turin should receive some redemption for all that befell his house and their woes, not to mention his sister. Gurthang, at the hands of the Mormegil, would claim its greatest victim of all, Melkor. Great video, as always.

[@Crichjo32]

Dagor Dagorath is the Avengers Endgame of Middle Earth. Every character who ever was in the compendium comes together for one final showdown, where good ultimately triumphs over evil, one or another.

[@kyledahlgren9583]

Love the stories you tell! This is a great channel, so glad I found it!

[@emanuelosorio9610]

I wish the Dagor Dagorath would have stayed firm. Tolkien does make several references to End of Days, imagine he had it in his mind; set and firm. At least I, take the Dagor Dagorath yet as canon, because I think it still fits (minding the details that may not). Thanks for the video Yoystan! Been wanting this.

[@MrDale53]

In his final book (The Fall of Gondolin), Tolkien's son Christopher includes the Dagor Dagorath and 2nd Prophecy of Mandos, quoting his father's words at the end and without any hesitation or reservation. I'm very happy he did that!

[@bwill887]

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Arda is permanently scarred but the second song is meant to recreate the world. In essence, the new Arda is not the old one. I believe Tolkien had Dagor Dagorath as a firm end point, he just didn't really know how it would play out, amending it throughout his life. Would the Halls of Mandos open and men return, would old heros return, how would other things play out? I don't think Tolkien ever came to an ending he liked enough to include in his completed works but I think the final battle itself, the return and defeat of Morgoth, was firm, just not the actual way events played out.

[@emanuelosorio9610]

@@bwill887 I haven't read the Fall yet. If Christopher included it in the end, does that make it canon? Also, you might be correct in that maybe the battle itself is firm but he didn't know how it would pan out. Similarly, but not nearly as good, i have an End of Days for my own world but i don't know how it would get there.

[@qarmatianwarhorse6028]

@@bwill887 Honestly, I hope that after Morgoth's defeat and death, he and his servants are resurrected with their spiritual wounds healed. It's just tragic how deep into the darkness Melkor and the Maiar who followed him fell.

[@vbywrde]

Dagor Dagorath will finally convince Melkor of what Iluvatar had told him at the beginning "Thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my respite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined" ... thus Melkor will discover, finally, that he was an instrument of Eru after all, and that, as Tolkien undoubtedly reflected, "All things work towards the good..."

[@kyleenglot9184]

I think you're right on that one. Eru Iluvatar in this time frame will let the original music that was marred by Melkor play out it's role for it must be done in order for the new 2nd and more greater song of creation to begin. Like a phoenix from the ashes the old Arda will burn up and from the ashes (new music) a new world free of evil and weariness will be formed... Basically everyone will be in just one big peaceful heaven and be with Eru for eternity.

[@patpaulson1108]

I did not read about the Dagor Dagorath, yet. I will now. It would answer many questions I have had about Turin. Thanks for doing the video.

[@giulioaprati338]

Hi Yoystan, I just shared your video in the facebook group of the Italian Tolkien's studies society which I belong toon about 4500 members so... wait for new subscribes

[@MenoftheWest]

eodred di acquaneve Thanks friend, I appreciate the support!

[@oskartengberg8792]

Best lore channel out there, for any universe, very appreciated. :)

[@CardboardArm]

I think Dagor Dagorath undercuts a lot of the themes from the Legendarium and should not be canon. 1. Morgoth's defeat is his own doing. By pouring his evil into the world he was able to corrupt many, but it came at the cost of his own personal power. Eventually he was weakened enough to be defeated. It is his desire to corrupt and hurt others that created his downfall. If he is resurrected with his full power at some point, then his actions have no consequence and possibly even benefitted him as he could count on his corrupted allies. It takes a beautiful view on how and why evil will always fail and replace it with a generic 'good always wins for some reason'. 2. Turin coming back changed his story from a greek tragedy to something more generic with him 'winning' in the end anyway. 3. If the Valar knew Morgoth would come back eventually, it takes away their choices and agency. All they have to do is wait for this battle anyway, why care about the world before that? It takes away the discussion if the Valar are right to abandon Middle Earth to Morgoth if everyone is going to be resurrected anyway. 4. Every victory up until Dagor Dagorath will be undone by this battle. Why bother destorying the ring is Sauron is going to come back anyway? 5 Turin coming back is yet another man defying the Gift of Man. If all the great men are spared from the Gift of Man it enforces the idea that it IS a curse and Illuvatar just screwed men over for no reason. I like all these thematic and philosofical ideas Tolkien put in his Legendarium really dislike the implications of a Ragnarok event on these ideas.

[@Turamwdd]

Your thoughts suppose two things: (1) that the winner is a foregone conclusion which means it doesn't matter if 1 elf or 1 million elves show up and (2) that the prophecy is a 100% guarantee to happen exactly as it is interpreted. I like the way Wheel of Time handled the two "conflicting" versions of the prophecies. Both Light and Shadow had wildly different interpretations of the same underlying prophecies. The prophecies of the shadow did come true, just not in the way that they believed.

[@sgauden02]

This prophecy could simply be what the Elves of Middle Earth believe, and may not necessarily be true.

[@yovow7839]

I’m really wanted this video for ages!

[@matijajuric7997]

The definition of epic... creation of creation thru music... imagine this on the big screen as in your heads...cinematic endgame

[@jackwhitetron]

Absolutely LOVE your videos. They're so well done. Thank you so much for these gifts!

[@samuelleask1132]

Great video!!!! I especially love the way you always link the content of your video to real life!!! Please keep making more!!!!!

[@luukje777]

I like it the way it is with Turin killing Morgoth and the children of Iluvatar singing along with the Ainur.

[@robertpanagos6274]

I love this because the Fellowship would most likely reunite. Hopefully Frodo won't have to fight though.

[@dionmerrill2278]

Love your content man keep it up

[@NickSibz]

great video as always, ive learned so much more from this channel

[@maxbattles3705]

I like the uncertainty and mystery surrounding Dagor Dagorath; Tolkien may be dead, but his universe has yet to meet its end.

[@TETASARAIVACS]

I think most people got this wrong about the Dagor Dagorath: it already happened! I believe that battle ended that ancient arc that started with the Ainulindalë, and that OUR time came after that huge ancient arc. As if that arc was Iluvatar’s “first project”. Our History began after the Dagor Dagorath, after that “first essay”.

[@danielcalderon7260]

Hey you should do an in depth episode of what occurred outside of the siege of Minas-Tirith. A further focus on both theater of the war of the ring would be really cool to see. Also what occurred after Aragorn rallied the armies of Gondor on his march to the black gate. But then again only a suggestion :)

[@80budokai]

Awesome video! 💯🙌

[@KoltiraMemeweaver]

Another wonderful video Yoystan 👍🏻. Dagor Dagorath is interesting

[@shawnkanevsky9799]

My second edition Silmarilion has mentions to the battle and if I recall a small account at the end though its really brief as it seems Christopher didn't care much for it in the narrative. From my understanding each new edition of the Silmarilion removed more and more of the battle so in the final version is doesn't come up

[@MrDale53]

Fortunately for all of us, Christopher (at the end of his final book THE FALL OF GONDOLIN) includes the Last Battle and 2nd Prophecy, quoting his father's words without any hesitation or reservations. :)

[@critter30002001]

I like how they were developing a redemption for Turin.

[@seedyjay72]

Great vids, my friend. I've been a Tolkien fan for many years. These vids and the artwork in them are superb. Subscribed.

[@tedjuniormichael1083]

GREAT MUSIC AND NARRATION STORY... CANT WAIT FOR THE LORD OF THE RING T.V SERIES

[@Flatulenzierer]

I like the end presented in the Silmarillion. The time of the Eldar on earth has passed forever and so many wonderful things disappear and will never come back. It´s kinda sad and not a happy end. That is what makes the Silmarillion unique to me.

[@qarmatianwarhorse6028]

Elves were never meant to live in Middle-Earth, even if they awoke in Cuivienen. Outside of the Blessed Lands, all was corrupted by Morgoth's influence already and they would ultimately fade, becoming incorporeal spirits over the ages. That's how the "Dark Elves" who refused the Valar's invitation to Aman ended, disappearing from existence.

[@000Cloud00011]

I will always adore Tolkien for creating my favorite Book EVER: The Silmarillion. 💖 About Dagor Dagorath, I sincerely think it is a pity they never published it. It would have been a truly worthy ending to such a Magnificent Saga. Anyway, great video! Thank you, my friend! 😊

[@MrDale53]

I'm happy to say that at the end of his final book ("The Fall of Gondolin"), Christopher Tolkien does quote (without any hesitation) his father's text of the Dagor Dagorath and 2nd Prophecy of Mandos! (Previously you can find it in a couple of "The History of Middle Earth" volumes.) Hail to Christopher Tolkien for the 40 years of work he spent to make available his father's unpublished writings!

[@Windikite]

I recently read the Children of Hurin and some of unfinished tales recently, the only two books I've read. I've also read some of the silmarillion as well but am not finished. Loving all the lore videos and really like this one especially since I love Turin's role in it. Was honestly super depressing towards the end of that book and glad to see some justice and happiness can come from it.

[@gandalfolorin-kl3pj]

I read somewhere, perhaps at Planet Tolkien, that one version of the end of days would feature Olorin--Gandalf's original name--battling against Morgoth also. As he seemed to be Tolkien's epic "guardian angel" of events, this also seemed a good use of that character. It has been years since I read the Silmarillion and I do not own all the other books of backstory Christopher Tolkien produced over the years. So maybe Olorin was written out of the last version of the end battle.

[@naskardk1]

Time changes everything and everyone one.... Anything that starts has to end one day... Till that day just bang bang bang bang

[@Cognitohazzard]

Turin goddamn deserves getting his revenge on Melkor. The Children of Hurin's story is the best part of the Silmarillion.

[@gregorydavarn1871]

This would have been an epic story to read and then reread over and over again.

[@somerled78]

Thank you. Very well done!

[@sydneyalisonbaker]

Awesome video! I like the Turin version. I wish it had stayed in the Silmarillion. I think it could still happen.

[@TwinOusKysAni]

Dagor Dagorath love that name. Good job on this video. I really love this channel. #Notigang

[@gunnerbradley5282]

I had no idea this was what the end time was! Incredible!

[@patrick8946]

Yoystan you are the greatest!

[@UncleFester84]

There are a couple of points: the music of the Ainur ends with Eru himself stopping it in a single cataclysmic note, so i have the feeling that even after this battle, all the evil of Melkor marred Arda so deeply that it would indeed be beyond repair, until Illuvatar himself intervenes and obliterates the world, making space for the new one. As for Men i'm not sure, the prophecy speaks only of Turin, never mentioning other men, plus thanks to the Gift of Men, their fate is disconnected from the world, and so also separated from this last battle. In my head canon this last battle will happen after Men also disappeared from the world, leaving it empty, and it is then that Melkor returns. This would explain the absence of mankind. It would go something like this: Mankind disappears, leaving Arda empty Soon after the Valar and their guard becomes weary Melkor returns in Valinor and wages this last war The Dagor Dagorath happens and Turin returns as the only and last of mankind, killing Melkor and avenging all the suffering of men The world is marred beyond repair by both all the evil done until then and the battle itself Eru in a single note ends the world. The Ainur and the children of Illuvatar are rejuvenated and meet in the timeless halls and compose the second music The second world is forged mostly by Aule with the help of the Dwarves.

[@sainiharika]

I agree

[@TheTrigger124]

I have actually started writing a fanfiction about Melkor being able to communicate with Sauron at the start of the War of the Ring and the Valar sending a host to try and stop Melkor escaping the void early with the help of Sauron

[@ForGlory]

One of my FAVORITE allusions made in the legendarium. But the best part is the part least covered and least talked about, and the most shrouded in secrecy: the fate of MEN!

[@ahmass9342]

In LoTR, Two Towers, in the song Treebeard sings to Merry & Pippin about the Ents & Entwives, this Tolkien himself wrote: ENT: When Winter comes, the winter wild that hill and wood shall slay; [When Winter(=Morgoth, Utumno~Autumn) comes, slaying all hills & woods.] When trees shall fall and starless night devour the sunless day; [Clear; No sun, No moon, No stars.] When wind is in the deadly East, then in the bitter rain [Throughout the book, like in Boromir's farewell, East wind is of destruction & bad omen. Bitter Rain = fire of war, as opposite to Water of life.] I'll look for thee, and call to thee; I'll come to thee again! ENTWIFE: When Winter comes, and singing ends; when darkness falls at last; When broken is the barren bough, and light and labour past; [... when the old light & ancient labours of the Valar & the Children are all destroyed] I'll look for thee, and wait for thee, until we meet again: Together we will take the road beneath the bitter rain! BOTH: Together we will take the road that leads into the West(Aman), And far away will find a land where both our hearts may rest. I read LOTR after the Silmarillion, & when I read that poem, I was greatly moved, & it instantly brought to my mind the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath, The Battle of Battles.

[@marcodelatorre6175]

I love your videos, keep working hard brother!

[@naskardk1]

Morgoth will break the gard barring it's way and led his dark Force on children of iluvatar Orks troll urhakai vampire dragon wraith giant spider warewolf saroun will all serve him Armies of valar shall be raised on last time in a final great alliance From the Halls of Mandos Spirit of the desige maiyars, ents, draws, elves, men, Hobbit and animals of the world will unite again the invasion Forces of the valar would be led by tulkas the strong Along with eyonway And turi turambar on left Tulkas will fight morgoth single battle even wrestling him to the ground but it won't be tulkas who would give the final blow But instead great warrior of men Turin Turambar son of hurin thalian will raise his black sward gurthang and realm it through the heart of morgoth ENDING HIM ONCE AND FOR ALL

[@berserk6984]

@@user-dg2ub7rn8i Imagine one single big magnetic storm and all our tech means nothing.

[@bluedwarf1699]

OI!! Ya missed the dwarf! Durin the 7th, or Durin the Last also fights in the last great battle, when all dwarves fade from the world!

[@sathanaful]

love it love it love it, awesome video bro

[@deathstroke2697]

Awesome as always. I dont konw if you made a video about Nirnaeth Arnoediad. If not, I hope you make one soon. That was the saddest battle of all Tolkien's works in my opinion.

[@gavinsmith9871]

“I arise from fields of death, through the purifying flames of war “ -The Bright Lord

[@mashroomghost8456]

Another great vid, man!