This Little Dial Changes 𝙀𝙫𝙚𝙧𝙮𝙩𝙝𝙞𝙣𝙜... Almost | Lewis LHP Review

[@DaleStone]

Would you run these brakes? Why or why not? Use code "CONFLICTOFINTEREST" for 0% off below. 👇

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Can I have a 0% code and a set of intend pls? 😊 I'm waiting... 😂

[@ShitStefanShoots]

I guess I'd go for Mavens.

[@zelmerjr7]

i would definety love to try these brakes :)

[@GuyKesTV]

🤣

[@jester6578]

It would be very interesting to try the leverage ratio adjustment..... Once the issues are resolved. Thank you for demonstrating the issue so well.

[@colestroh9468]

ok i watch a lot of youtube, i mean ALOT. a lot of professional “career” youtubers from all genres. and this channel has probably the best or at least top 3 narration and verbal description of things ive seen on this platform. WOW so impressive and each time another video comes out im just as impressed as the time before. well done and keep up the production quality and extremely high quality content and dialog. thank you

[@DaleStone]

Thank you, I'll do my best!

[@jasoniannone9675]

You put so much thought into your work and communicate your thoughts clearly. I really appreciate your effort. Also, it kinda looks like you shred, so right on.

[@DaleStone]

Haha, thanks!

[@Ferrari255GTO]

If you doubt he shreds just check out his shorts, he does ride some CRAZY shit sometimes

[@justinh7099]

Like I said in your previous Lewis videos. Thanks for doing it. There's not enough credible information on the brand and you're doing a huge service.

[@davidfraniek4970]

The amount of time and research that goes into these videos is incredible. Thank you for becoming my go to source for mountain bike brake reviews as you go into all the details I want to know about!

[@DaleStone]

🫡

[@mq1506]

A hex head that small should be illegal.

[@JockeSelin]

Agreed! However, personally I’d venture as far as outlawing all allen tools/bolts and creating the official “Church of the Torx the only true God, ya’ll others are infidels!”, but that’s probably only me. 😊

[@NightworksYT]

I use it all the time on my drones

[@Emolokz]

Perhaps see if you can find replacement bolts in a stronger grade of metal with a torx head? Might cost a few bucks but might be worth it?

[@timothyadams2719]

As a mechanic that works on Italian machines, I couldn’t agree more.

[@William.Driscoll]

​@@NightworksYTWhile the forces faced by drones are considerable, perhaps they are greater on mountain bikes. While I'm just starting the video, I'll keep an eye/ear out for what's of concern, re.: the bolt.

[@psyguy37]

Wasn't expecting this one from you so soon. Lovely surprise, and with the LHT still to come! These brakes are still at the top of my short list, and although that design flaw is something that probably won't affect me, it's definitely good to know. Your reviews are such a valuable resource. Keep up the great work!

[@aznwierdone]

Awesome work dale. Happy to hear you advocating transparency and safety for consumers much like GN. Its good to hear that there is a tangeable difference in adjustments at the lever and make me wonder about mixing and matching various caliper and levers, and if theres a objective way to determine how much performance is derived from either end.

[@BK_BT]

Excellent video Dale! We’ll personally be updating our images on our store to inform customers to check their ratio setting for interference with the lever reach adjustment. Great job discovering that! I’m also going to see if just makes sense for us to pay out of pocket to include a nice hex key for the set screws. I’ll be taking the my Lewis reps to see if we can get a revision of the LHP with the torx set screw of the LHT. I agree the two adjustment screws can be annoying (we do reference in our site it’s not fully tool-less functionality) Thanks for all your hard work! - Bryce at Atlus Bikes

[@DaleStone]

That's awesome Bryce, hopefully your message (and this video) help Lewis consider a running change to this new design. Thanks for keeping customer safety your top priority! 🙌

[@BK_BT]

@@DaleStone ordering bulk Tekton ball end Allen keys as we speak haha. A few dollars of mine is worth everyone’s safety and also worth not stripping out tiny hex screws, that’s the worst! I’ll message my rep tonight and share your video and issues you’ve experienced. I 100% agree that the LHT has better ratio adjustment. Most bike tools will have the torx and not that tiny hex key. Even if they did no way you’re fitting the tool between the handle and reservoir

[@DaleStone]

@@BK_BT You get it. I appreciate how constructive and wholesome the Lewis comment sections tend to be in comparison to dealers, outlets and riders trying to justify their purchases from the big two...

[@BK_BT]

@@DaleStone I guess we cannot win them all haha. The comments are quite great and constructive which I agree is very nice and also very different haha. Only everyone benefits from being understanding, civil and just nice to each other. Hate and ego never got anyone anything. Keep doing the good work man!

[@SKBKER]

Gonna weight for the different colours .

[@scottbroyles2114]

the lewis machine work and materials look AMAZING, kind of kicking myself for ordering some magura's lately.. these should at least be putting the big guys on notice

[@daviddawson4091]

Keep up the great reviews, please. I'm a big fan! 🙂

[@travelthenarrowtrail8660]

Great work on this one. Seems there are some quality control issues. @20:31, @24:55... You need to do a Hayes Dominion A4 test to freshen up the scrore board.

[@rubbermoetroken]

Thanks for testing it. I am a bit of a brake nerd, with various hybrid systems tested, but that interference is totally unacceptable, so is the play on the lever. Quality had it price it seems. Great tech vid. Subscribed.

[@DaleStone]

Once you dial in your settings thankfully neither are an issue, but I do hope they are both improved upon next time! 🙂

[@SKBKER]

Surely reducing the knob diameter would allow the lever to not make contact or do what Hope does and use an external pin or grub screw . That knob is too big (cough) .

[@DaleStone]

A smaller knob would indeed be more convenient. 😁

[@camrivers3122]

Ok... I'll ask the question that always jumps in my brain when I see a Lewis review. Can you do the Ali express copy of the truck stuff next? III PRO E4s. Some other reviews suggesting they are weirdly good for a fifth of the price of a mid tier brake. Love the vids bud.

[@DaleStone]

One of my friends rides some of the gnarliest moves around with his IIIPros. Would be epic to test them out next year!

[@alexdi1367]

Really spectacular review. Top-drawer, thanks so much!

[@Chazillor]

Another great video Dale

[@theJoey851]

great vid, always creating content on different things. suggestion for the next brake is the formula cura 4.

[@DaleStone]

I'd like to get to it eventually, but don't hold your breath. 🙂

[@peterstraubinger4707]

You know i just bought the Black Friday special trinety and i blame you and these videos for it😂 we need more unpayed honest product reviews like yours.

[@DaleStone]

Hell yeah brother, you're going to love em! 🤘

[@peterstraubinger4707]

@@DaleStone it’s crazy to be honest like you put me on to those brakes even though their made like 4 hours away from where i live. Thanks though. Should be here tomorrow super stoked on them. Cheers 🍻

[@bulbobu]

Another excellent production! Thank you! The existing mtb review channels/websites should count their blessings. Do you think a Formula Cura 4 review is possible? And I think you mentioned TRP DHRs are too linear but we'd be stoked if you ever decided to make a video

[@DaleStone]

I suspect TRP will beat me to the punch with a new brake, which I'll be on top of haha. Would like to get to formulas eventually! 🙂

[@Flecktarn108]

It would be interesting to do a follow up to see if Lewis will react to your safety concerns and if they will do anything about it. A small retrofit with the possibility to get updated parts to owners, free of charge, would be a nice move.

[@DaleStone]

I'm not sure I have another feature length LHP video in me again, but I'd do my best to keep my audience updated!

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

You're my official source for info on the brand now... 😅 thanks for updating us! My original set and second set of LH4 are still on duty, I'm (not so) glad to report they experienced road salt of Quebec roads and -7°c I clear my bike with fresh water when I come home but yeah, hate that. A bit less response but they work, I must specify I replaced the original fluid with Maxima mineral oil.

[@anttiharing]

Maximas also suffer from the reach adjustment knob hitting the lever blade during a full pull. This is evident when the reach is set pretty close to the bar. I actually bent both my master cylinder push rods by the lever blade hitting the adjustment knob.

[@DaleStone]

Now that is interesting. I'll have to try to replicate that, as I didn't encounter it during my testing.

[@Bossman.official]

Another great video Dale. Also wondering if you'll review a set of Hope Tech 4 V4 or E4s?

[@DaleStone]

I addressed this in a previous brake video: yes. 🙂

[@Bossman.official]

@@DaleStone Nice! Looking forward to it.

[@hananas2]

Best brake reviews out there 👍 Although I don't 100% agree with the choice to use the Trickstuff pads with these brakes as it might not be an entirely accurate depiction of what they would be like for the average person who would buy these. Although on the other hand I could see it being pretty likely that someone who buys these brakes would eventually buy those pads anyway when the original ones wear. Oh also watch out for cherry picked examples when receiving items directly from manufacturers.

[@DaleStone]

I see where you're coming from, but I felt that it was more important to have the most accurate comparison possible to the Maximas (which I'll be uploading before Christmas). With more time I would've definitely liked to test both pad options! 🙂

[@WHTFSayonara]

Awesome video once again!

[@mrvwbug4423]

I already see the response from who I assume is a US rep for Lewis, that's a definite positive factor in their favor with the fast response. IMHO, get the small issues resolved with running changes, build up a dealer and support network and offer a decent warranty and I see another very viable competitor in the brake space.

[@DaleStone]

I agree!

[@CristianBurr]

Great content, I really enjoy the depth you give components, its missed by the industry as a whole. With the problem you encountered, would it be the same with new vs old pads? Just wondering, since you installed used pads, and didnt bleed the brakes, the small difference could lead the a higher chance of brake "failure" or interference as you mentioned in the video.

[@DaleStone]

This issue is present on the LHTs that I'm borrowing that were bleed from new with original pads, indicating it is likely a trend and not a one off. The Maxima pads were effectively brand new (~60km) and were visually the same thickness as the Lewis pads. The lever feel was also very similar to the Maxima as-is, which would add up.

[@CristianBurr]

@@DaleStone yep, so def an design oversight. How likely would it be that someone might end up adjusting their brakes in such a way that it comes to that extreme? Either way, it shouldnt be something customers are subject to, and I agree on your assessment... the company needs to put it out there for safety concerns/warnings.

[@DaleStone]

@CristianBurr if you choose a position at random, I'd guess around 10%

[@thomasschopfel2826]

@DaleStone Really cool and well rounded reports of different brake! Amazing work! Now next step would be "mix and match" :P I did many different tests and finally I settled with following config: - Trickstuff Direttissima pumps and Magura MT7 calipers. Amazing mix of both worlds! Fine and effortless braking with lots of modulation. No need of any further adjustments but reach for your anatomy. Before I did run most of the time Shigura. Here it's best to stick to SLX Pumps and MT5 calipers. They fit best to the Servo Wave of Shimano. MT7 calipers have less "rollback" so they fit better with Trickstuff but on Shimano Pumps they are biting way to far in the Servowave range and it bites just way too agressive! Digital ON-OFF. Also tested: Code RSC/Ultimate Pumps with HOPE V4 caliper. Great combination with the known SRAM modulation but signifantly more power! Stick to RSC/Ultimate Pumps to get the contact adjustment and ball bearings! Side info: Never use Shimano oil! It gets really high viscous beow 5°C and most levers pump up and you get the wandering bitepoint. ! Best in the town (also used by Intend) - Putoline HPX - same price, best viscosity all around (we tested everything in a rheometer in realistic temperatures).

[@forrestgladding8423]

Love your videos, It looks like most of your riding is steep but in the wet and cool somewhere. Some descents in the American West are long and dry and hot, I wonder if those conditions and a heavier rider would change your opinion around heat dissipation. Doesnt sound like you have ever smoked a rotor or brakesets or overheated a system on a dry 5k foot descent. Im not saying I do those rides on the daily but definitely enough in the summer to appreciate the effort for heat dissipation. I enjoy a 220 rotor too where others call me crazy

[@DaleStone]

I've definitely never done that before, and I've done my handful of 5000 foot summer descents too, haha. One of the pros to being super light I guess!

[@-IE_it_yourself]

i donno about that interference problem, but i never set up my brakes to come so close to the bar. but good find non the less.

[@DaleStone]

I usually don't either haha, but wanted to test everything!

[@-IE_it_yourself]

@@DaleStone you found an easter egg

[@offerhak]

Thank you very much for the great and detailed review. Which model you prefer/recommend the LHP-U4 or the LHT ?

[@DaleStone]

I believe I mentioned that in this video. I wouldn't recommend either until they fix my concerns, but probably LHT eventually.

[@Emolokz]

I missed this release! Watching now, eager to see the findings!

[@DaleStone]

You didn't miss anything, it's only 3 hours old! 😉

[@Emolokz]

But also @DaleStone if you also have the LHT brakes, PLEASE do an LHT lever + U4 caliper combination test at some point.

[@DaleStone]

Once I get through all of the OEM brakes I'd love to mix and match, but that might take a solid year or two... 🥲

[@Emolokz]

@@DaleStone hey, it lines up the content for the future! Gives you some job security 😉

[@Emolokz]

@@DaleStone here's a question, it looks like this interference only occurs when the lever is very far in, nearly contacting the grip upon full grab, and it appears to be happening due to the length of the...bolt(? that's not a simple bolt, is it, according to the diagram earlier in the video there's an adjustment inside of that?). Do you think this could be remedied with a longer bolt(?) specifically for use by those who desire to run this "very far in" configuration or would the necessary additional length result in it contacting the handlebar grip/grip lock-on?

[@kizbish]

I really enjoyed this video, and i totally understand what you're saying about some small set screws needing to be tight, could a small amount of low strength thread locker not do the trick? I cant imagine once you get them set you would genuinely want to change it regularly? I would of thought whilst being frustrating that it would rattle from becoming loose, its probably in the optimal location for it to become loose considering its at the end of the handle bars, directly above a fork that is designed to compress and extend?

[@DaleStone]

I agree that if you don't intend on selling them or letting your friends try out different settings, then you might as well just super glue them in there. I'd be hesitant to apply anything myself given the delicate nature of a 1.5mm hex.

[@kizbish]

@DaleStone but why do you have to be keeping them to use low strength loctite? Plenty of bike components have it on them? I understand what you're saying, it was more out of curiosity. Assuming its a regular grub screw with a 1.5mm allen/hex key to tighten, that would make it a M2.5mm screw, and less torque would be required with the addition of loc tite, therefore less likely to strip the threads Or am i way off the mark and you're more concerned about stripping the head of the grub screw? After all this, i do wanna say i love your content, can tell from whatever study/professional background you have you possess a greater than general understanding of the mechanical side of the brakes I've seen you do test videos on, im just a curious cat that loves answers 😂

[@DaleStone]

@@kizbish I could barely tighten and loosen them as-is without fearing stripping the heads haha. I don't want any more resistance!

[@kizbish]

@DaleStone yeah thats fair, suppose for all their nice CNC work they failed to tap the through holes as well as they should of!

[@mongoz56]

Good work on the review. How does your prefered leverage ratio on the LHP compare to the LH4 lever? I don't remember you mentioning how they compare to LH4s or did I miss it. Thanks!

[@DaleStone]

Good question, I did forget to include that. I'd say the LH4 feels very similar to the LHP in my least favourite position, the one I discussed first and compared to a light lever SRAM brake, and maybe even with a bit less power too. Still very usable, but I much prefer the opposite setting. 🙂

[@mongoz56]

@@DaleStone Good to know. I must be one of the few that actually like the feel of code brakes 😄

[@DaleStone]

@mongoz56 more for your then! 😂

[@colestroh9468]

fellow brake snob here, PLEASE try to get your hands on a set of Radic Performance Kahas in for review and evaluation. ive been eyeing these for a long time but there is limited online consumer info in north america and i only have seen one or two videos on them. i feel like they are WAY up your alley and id love to see a review.

[@DaleStone]

Once they're in my budget, or enough people reach out and ask them to send over a set, it'll be my top priority. 🫡

[@Oh_Sully23]

A friend of mine has a set of them, his set are garbage. He’s replaced them with Hope Tech4 V4’s

[@colestroh9468]

@ just garbage? no elaboration?

[@Oh_Sully23]

@@colestroh9468 fair point, his complaints were extremely inconsistent performance/power, even lever pulling straight to bar, despite professional bleeds. He essentially couldn’t get them to work consistently. When they did work they worked well, but it was a coin toss at best as to whether he’d have some stopping power or just pull the lever to the bar, and this spectrum of performance is on a trail during a ride, not a gradual reduction over weeks and months.

[@ivanopolese7546]

i love your honesty bro. by the way could you maybe try dissassembling the products that you review? i think it would make a great explanation aid. forgot to add, did you see my email about the action cam mount? ;) i resent it just in case

[@DaleStone]

Would be pretty cool, but I just can't afford to take things apart at this point that I am not 100% sure will go back together. Money is tight! And sorry I'm waaaay behind on emails haha. I'll get to it, I swear... 😅

[@ivanopolese7546]

@DaleStone thanks! Once you start taking things apart, you realize how cool and intricate the mechanisms are. I feel like people are almost never aware of the insane mechanics of the products they purchase.

[@YanDoroshenko]

Yes! Finally! Someone! "I'm a fan of bolder and brighter colors because riding should be fun after all!" Someone gets it! How can a company release a GRAY bike?! How?! Alright, black, black is slick, black is classic and can be fun depending on who you are and what you do with it. But army green? Dark gray? School cleaner blue? For crying out loud...

[@prawnis]

ily dale i live in the same area as you you make the best videos and now you got me hyped about these brakes. Quick question, how much more powerful are these brakes than sram code r's? I ride stuff like seymour and whister and was wondering if these provide a big enough performance boost

[@DaleStone]

"powerful" doesn't mean much without context, but I'd definitely prefer these over anything from Shimano or SRAM.

[@jason.miles31]

Would be interesting to test if you could remove the cooling fins and run the thicker V4 Hope rotors.

[@DaleStone]

It would be neat for sure, but I suspect the "rotor cutout" is a bit too small. I'll measure it sometime perhaps...

[@lenolenoleno]

The price difference quoted between brakes is surprising between regions (e.g. You have the Lewis at $643 MSRP and the Dominions at $674 MSRP). No sales etc (year round price), the LHPs are about $730 AUD directly from Lewis where as a pair of A4 Dominions are $475 AUD for the pair - that's $255 AUD / $165 USD less $ for the Hayes in Australia.

[@DaleStone]

Yeah I've gone off of the Canadian MSRP, or the directly converted US MSRP when that is not available. Would be cool to eventually have different columns for each of the major regions wouldn't it...

[@viperrules24]

Any ideas if the reach adjust knob is removeable? I can see there is a set screw on it in some of the views. I wonder if you can loosen that and slide it part of the way up the shaft to get around the interference issue?

[@DaleStone]

It is indeed removable. I believe it may interfere with my grip in the "reach adjuster close to bar" leverage position if I let it hang off the end of the piston rod unfortunately. Haven't tried, but very tight tolerances all over!

[@claritean]

Imagine Intends in RAW ! 11/10

[@bobsoon666]

Too bad i am having the wandering bike point issue and brake lever losing pressure issue with the LH4.Still waiting for the replacement part from Lewis.Hopefuly things go well after getting this

[@DaleStone]

That's a bummer, hopefully your issue is solved soon!

[@crottemole]

In theory a worm screw should not be able to be turned by its gear... But realistically im assuming the lever would eventually move. The two 1.5 are indeed a perplexing choice

[@DaleStone]

I think the vibration and acceleration loading is complex enough that it probably will eventually drift. But who knows, haha.

[@GaweNowakowski]

Levarage ratio adjustmemt is something which I wish to have in my brakes, but due to way it is realised I would not feel comfortable spending so much on brakes with only one year warrant and mediocre at most spare parts availability.

[@tedned1479]

Ive been so hyped for this review! (first?)

[@rab..]

I wonder if we'll ever see Lewis supporting and sponsoring events around the mtb world.

[@DaleStone]

They have domestically in China a fair bit, allegedly.

[@scottbroyles2114]

This trail looks amazing, anyone know where he's riding in this video? .. it's so different from my home in AZ it may as well be on another planet

[@DaleStone]

BC!

[@kingflynxi9420]

Oohhhh please tell me you've tested the vented rotors when you tested the hope brakes! I'd love to see a performance comparison between these cooling fins and the hope vented rotor!

[@DaleStone]

haha I'm still on the fence about those rotors. I'll have to mortgage one of my bikes to afford them! 🤪

[@kingflynxi9420]

@DaleStone Maybe! I've heard good things about them and since they're 3mm thick, they apparently bring the bite point much closer to the free stroke for a snappier and more immediate feel.

[@FelixLux-jl8cb]

Just purely from a performance and feature perspective, all controversy aside - I do like the leverage adjust, really great feature. But those loosening screws (which apparently aren't great in multiple aspects according to your hex keys 😜) with the rattling would annoy me so much, I wouldn't run them. Also I love your reviews, best brake reviews out there by a longshot! But what I do not really understand is why you score them lower in the "invisibility score" because of the adjustment dead stop issue, while those hard to reach, hard to fit a hex to and loosening screws ("causing a significant amount of distracting play" ... and rattle) are not a big concern of yours? And regarding the "reliability" you mention your concerns about the those screws loosening and then maybe accidentally adjusting the leverage, potentially resulting in this dead stop safety issue. Just personal priorities? Anyway fantastic review once again, I just don't understand a couple of scores, given what you reported in the video.

[@DaleStone]

Good questions. I'll have to give both categories a think again. Nothing is set in stone!

Not sure how much energy would be transferred to those cooling fins without thermal paste, but my guess is, not much

[@DaleStone]

That's probably true too!

[@MAEBikr]

Dale -when is the review coming for that Garmin Mount? The yellow looks nice. It looks really light :) - Actually - the truth is the best way to do this is to do what you have done with the O-rings. When you crash - it moves run like the the expensive alternatives......

[@DaleStone]

You mean my fancy yellow zip ties? Haha, nothing special there, but they do indeed spin around the bar rather than breaking off thankfully! 🙂

[@MAEBikr]

@@DaleStone Everyone runs these fancy Garmin mounts that will likely break the flange on the base of the Garmin unit if you crash. You setup is better BUT get IMBY to give you some O rings.....

[@BryanHoefer]

Dale, I enjoy your videos and your in depth review process. Does Lewis clearly cloning 5 Dev's cranks change your opinion of Lewis being a stereotypical Chinese company copying established products from other companies instead of doing their own R&D? Making a second product that is a clear clone product, cements Lewis as a company ripping off other's designs.

[@IBCMTB]

Oh that's not a great look if true..

[@BryanHoefer]

@IBCMTB posted on Lewis bike Instagram. I tried to post the link, but KZbin isn't cooperating. Fun comment from 5Dev in the comments.

[@DaleStone]

Good question, and honestly it doesn't. Lewis has just made it crystal clear that they thrive in the morally grey zone, but I don't think they've crossed any legal red lines. It's up to individuals to form their own opinion on whether or not they are okay with these practices. Yadda yadda vote with your money... 🙂

[@rocky6162]

the fins are probably already overkill for cooling but I wonder if thermal paste between pad and fin makes a difference on a big descend

[@DaleStone]

It could! Probably makes a bigger difference contaminating your pads though. 🫠

[@andrewince8824]

I've had a go on a bike set up with Lewis brakes. Quite liked them. Powerful but with good moderation. Sadly, here in the UK they don't have a good distro and we have Hope whose brakes are cheaper and easier to aquire with performance easily on par (and those sexy sexy Hope colours). Compared to my Code RSCs I'd say the Lewis were excellent but can't compete on availability or price. They were similar in terms of power. My Codes felt nicer to me but given the lack of time and the unfamiliar bike I'm willing to give Lewis a bit of slack, no doubt if I rode them more I'd get more used to them.

[@TheMTBRider96]

It seems like they’re doing some great products, perhaps a touch slower “innovation” would prevent silly things to make it into a “finished product” such as the reach adjust stopping the lever blade or dumb tiny screws being inaccessible and becoming loose. This is why these videos are to me like a bucked of water into the hype fire that the brand is creating. I feel that they’re trying so hard that they’re not even testing much but rather just pushing products out, so when comments say that the x brand didn’t update their brake in a while, these things clearly show why. Looking forward to see the Hope Review and some more tested products in the future.

[@DaleStone]

I appreciate the pace at which they're releasing new products, but as I've learned from many of my jobs, you often pay a price for that in the end. Double checking is mandatory!

[@TheMTBRider96]

@ indeed, there must be a sweet spot between Lewis quick releases of what feels like prototype brakes and Trickstuff with their 7 years or more with no changes ( let’s forget about the saint that are ancient at this point despite being great )

[@alejandroramos6231]

Any chance to finally get the full review for the Hayes Dominion A4's?

[@DaleStone]

Have you seen how quickly I've been cranking out these reviews? 😆

[@alejandroramos6231]

@@DaleStone c'mon! those of us who went full hayes-crazy need to know where we stand for the much deserved trail-side bragging rights for best-bang-for-the-bucket brakeset... I paid under 400 € for a brakeset with 4 pads (2 sintered, 2 metal).... c'mon Dale... we need that score!

[@tomquimby8669]

phew. This is like going to a college lecture where the professor provides a dense reading of a subject for 30 minutes then leaves for his next class leaving the students deluged with data hoping they don't get too many questions of the material covered at the end of term exams

[@DaleStone]

Perfect, as intended. 😈

[@tomquimby8669]

@@DaleStone Brakes ; Formula cura 4 because they have the biggest brake pads, Beringer Br4VE just awesome.

[@bermroller]

Which leverage ratio position on the LHP would you say feels most similar to the feel of the LH4?

[@DaleStone]

Lever blade close

[@bermroller]

@@DaleStone Thanks. I was wondering if the LH4 would be good enough for me, but I despise "modulation". My finger already has built in modulation. Probably going to try the LHP.

[@astonarndt]

Is there any way to view your brakes spreadsheet?

[@DaleStone]

Not yet, but I'd like to get something together next year. 🙂

[@astonarndt]

@DaleStone that would be great!

[@JockeSelin]

This is like totes awesomeballs!!! 🤟🏻😎👍🏻

[@feedbackzaloop]

But did you have accidental stroke readjustment when set screws were loose? Normally (depending on actual gear ratio) worm gears are self-locking, so no set screws are needed, let alone two. Seems to me it is indeed rather a remedy to sloppy lever blade tolerances

[@DaleStone]

I didn't consider that but you might be right! They may have drifted at most 2-3 clicks over a 3+ hour ride. Unfortunately it's impossible to measure that with no markings on the lever, without taking and comparing photos...

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@DaleStone also it seems from the videos the mechanism has a lot of backlash - could this equate for those 2-3 clicks?

[@DaleStone]

@@feedbackzaloop It could for sure. I also could very well have been zero clicks haha. Hard to tell!

[@kevinmortimer1883]

exellent review of these brakes. that interference issue means max brake efficency is compromised and could result in not being able to stop when you absolutely need to. not acceptable and a deal breaker until resolved

[@DaleStone]

Thankfully it is avoidable if you are extremely diligent ensuring that it will not interfere while setting it up. 🙂

[@plmtb3694]

In term of power, how do you compare these with the TRP DHR evo ?

[@DaleStone]

TRPs are weak and underpowered for steep terrain. Very different curve.

[@plmtb3694]

​@@DaleStonedamn ! Will have to try these then

[@chadmulvaney7849]

I bought the LHT Ultimate Ti and the lever throw before pad engagement is the worst I have come across. They don't have the separate lever adjustment to pull the lever back in like these LHP's. I have done all the tricks with "overbleeding", running the pads out to the rotor and adding fluid, etc. The machining and detail on the brakes are fantastic and the power is definitely there but I can't get past the unnecessarily long dead lever pull.

[@DaleStone]

I'm confused, the LHT and LHP have the exact same 3 adjustments: bite point, reach and leverage.

[@chadmulvaney7849]

@@DaleStone The others have the lever screw adjustment separate from the leverage ratio which allows you to bring the lever back in toward the bar without affecting the performance of the brake. With the Ultimate's the adjustments all seem to affect each other without the option to move just the lever.

[@chadmulvaney7849]

Dale! Good news, I'm the idiot! There is the tiniest set screw in the reach adjustment, once fully removed the bite point and lever can be moved independently!

[@HelplmAlive]

Looks like it would be a easy design fix for that safety issue,

[@DaleStone]

As a running change yes, as a retroactive fix I'm not so sure.

[@lenolenoleno]

Don't get me wrong, when I see a Dale Stone brake review I click immediately and bask in its glory.. But... when is the Dominion review going to be finalised?! The TBC on the comparison table is irking my inner completionist! 😂

[@DaleStone]

Haha, rest assured that it bothers me too. But there are only so many hours in a day! 🫠

[@capitalisticsocialist]

When is the other review on the hayes dominions gonna come out?

[@DaleStone]

When I find the hours in the day. 🫠

[@capitalisticsocialist]

@@DaleStone Excited for part 2 :)

[@JAY-fv7ik]

I wonder if with the heatsinks removed if you could use the hope vented rotors

[@DaleStone]

I think the cutout for the rotor is still slightly too narrow, but I also haven't measured. Would be rad if so.

[@markivory7121]

They won't fit in the lh4 calipers. Clips the rivet

[@f1ag48]

Only talking about power,which of the top three is the strongest?

[@DaleStone]

It depends on the force applied at the lever. Squeezing as hard as you can, Maxima. Light to moderate feathering, Trinity.

[@a8f235]

The interference should be dependent on where each individual have the leverage ratio at, as well as how the rest is setup. Obviously it should never be possible, but it won't necessarily be a problem because most people will dial in the preferred leverage ratio, and just leave it. If this go to setup is ok, then you're good. Hopefully they will adress it, so we'll see. My personal gripe is those cooling fins that are not removable and that I thought were part of the brakepad just like Shimano has done for years. It seems like you are dependent on that brakepad separation spring to be in good shape, or it will rattle like hell. What do you do when this breaks or you loose it or what ever else. It's pretty dumb to have an independent spring like that where it has to be this chonky, and this whole cooling "system" depends on it. The other part is what do you do when you want to service the pistons. I haven't seen with my own eyes what amount of room you got on offer to do anything behind that fin, so I'm a bit baffled by the whole concept. Just why.... I never expected this from the pictures I've seen prior to this review, so now I don't really know what to say. Performance wise they are most likely very good, and personally I have been waiting for this particular model to enter the market, and now I just don't know. Where can you order and how quickly can you get a hold of 6 of these springs just so you have a little stock on these for peace of mind. I at least would never just start using these brakes without some of these at hand.

[@DaleStone]

Even knowing the interference was a possibility, I still would forget about double checking for it on the trail while I'm having a conversation with friends/etc. I agree that it was not an issue in my preferred setting, but needs to be impossible rather than improbable. 🙂 Piston servicing, good point. Didn't think of that!

[@a8f235]

@@DaleStone As it sits right now I feel the LHT will be the best option, and just order a set of the new hinge clamps that are split just for piece of mind. They have said they will be developing 2.3mm centerlock rotors next year as well as i-spec ev adapter for shimano. Next in line would be them offering rebuild kits for both calipers and levers, that would be nice(not sure if they offer it on demand or not, just couldn't see it on their site) I see they have been teasing the nebula color for this brakeset, but I'm hoping for the camo version to roll out. One can hope...

[@emilianoacevedo6079]

Are these better than maguras mt5/mt7?

[@DaleStone]

In most ways yes, in some ways no. 🫡

[@shjin]

Any reason why your list doesn't have TRP DHR Evo yet?

[@DaleStone]

Yes, I haven't enjoyed them in the parking lot, so I haven't prioritized buying a set with my money. Too weak. 🙂

[@kaijuoncrack6198]

will you be returning to the Hayes to review them again?

[@DaleStone]

I will.

[@cegalleta]

10:14 I've had a lot of problems with smaller brake pad separators (such as the ones that come with galfer pads) with my TRP DHR-Evos With the 2.3mm Hope rotors I use the thinner springs rub against the outer part of the disc and make an awful noise while braking. Maybe that's also part of the reasoning behind that design.

[@21armyn]

if cam zink rides this brakes on his bike to compete rampage i think its good enough for everyone lol!

[@DaleStone]

It's a good test for sure, but not for the XC rider in the cornfields of Iowa. 😆

[@21armyn]

@@DaleStone if he is 300 pounds he will hahaha

[@adyden33]

27:46 50 freedoms more expensive rahhh

[@jarob9255]

How about Magura mt7 with different levers.

[@DaleStone]

First I need to get through the OEM combos, then I'm keen to get freaky. 🧠

[@SitkaT1434]

You gotta put the trail names in these shorts.

[@DaleStone]

That would add a significant amount of work haha. I have dedicated videos for all of these trails already! 🫡

[@SitkaT1434]

That's unfortunate. I'm not a KZbinr so I'm not quite understanding correctly, and perhaps you don't have time, but why does it take so much time to put a trail name in a title or description? Thanks for the content in any case.

[@SitkaT1434]

@@DaleStone I also just realized I accidentally replied to the video and not the short I meant to, my bad.

[@Gam1ingandlives]

Omg yes

[@thugaliciousSHAK]

make a video where you test witch brake is most worth it so if 100eur brake has 200g lever force and 200 units of brake power and 800eur brake has 100g lever and 400 units its 4x better but 8x price so the 100eur is more value for money

[@DaleStone]

Value is far more than that, and highly subjective too. I'd like to eventually make a "which brake should you get" video but it can't be so simple unfortunately. 🙂

[@viperrules24]

​@@DaleStone If one takes the scores in your Dale Scale (TM) and multiplies it by weighing the importance of each criteria, then tallies and compares against all the brakes in the Scale, that will give a clear indicator as to which is the best brake for that person.

[@Mike-Kal]

Do you have any opinion changes? Seems like the thumbnail changed from “whoopsie” to “Genius” Just curious😅

[@DaleStone]

A/B testing

[@MaxBuyck]

How come bleeding a brake before testing is not a "Controlling Variable"?

[@DaleStone]

If it's required by the manufacturer through clear, explicit instructions then it is done, otherwise it can only be assumed to not affect performance. Feel free to timestamp a comment I made that you believe a bleed would've solved.

[@markivory7121]

Can't remember who had it on a reel but they recommended backpurging the lever as a bubble gets caught up in the resiouver cap. Made a difference, I've done a ton working as a mechanic and another mech tried it too and agreed (if it helps) great review

[@MaxBuyck]

Hey dale, thanks for the reply, I’m a huge fan of your videos. I’ve worked in bike shops for about 10 years now and I have seen sooooo many bad pre bleeds. A lot of unknown factors, maybe the brake was prebled over seas, changed elevation and pressure bunch etc… a baseline bleed for brakes is a great way to make sure you getting the manufacturers intended experience, which adds credibility, and you get to talk about the bleed process too!

[@camerond9941]

This is exactly the reason I can’t stand this brand. The ripoff the design from Trickstuff, who have spent years engineering and developing top tier brakes, then Lewis claim to “make improvements” to them without any understanding how that will effect the brakes, nor considering why Trickstuff designed them they way they are.

[@DaleStone]

To be fair, the bite point adjustment works very well. But yeah, welcome to capitalism.

[@SKBKER]

Would be ironic if a western company copied them .

[@DaleStone]

...and added new features. 🧠

[@Onlydansmtb]

No chance id run these brakes.

[@DaleStone]

Your loss is other's gain, haha

[@Onlydansmtb]

@ guess I’m gaining then 💪

[@RalfSRobotRalf]

"Brakes" "safety concern". Nope, I'm out.

[@DaleStone]

If you understand what's going on, you can mitigate the issue, but it's enough to avoid a blanket recommendation for sure.

[@jokermtb]

Meh….no thanks. Seems more trouble than they’re worth

[@DaleStone]

Having dealt with the trouble, I'd disagree haha

[@jokermtb]

@@DaleStone I'll stick with my dog eared Saints........

[@user-yv2cz8oj1k]

I don't even need to watch the video. The correct answer is Magura. Plus in Europe it's cost me nowhere near this to pick sets up.

[@DaleStone]

The correct answer is most certainly not Magura.

[@justsayin3600]

A VERY HARD PASS. For this to be a 1st choice over all the multiple manufacturers of proven brakes...no FN way.

[@DaleStone]

Gonna need a citation that shows "proven" brakes are better. I'll wait.

[@thedanyesful]

Agreed it's misleading they only show the 'tool-less' part of the adjustment, but your shitty allen wrenches are 100% on you. A good quality allen wrench can be less than a dollar.

[@DaleStone]

They're far from shitty, they're literally one of if not the most common brands in the country. 😂 Why do you assume that it is not the head on the set screw that is out of tolerance?

[@mechadrake]

They sent you brakes free, they do influence you, despite you disclaiming that or thinking you are very independent. it is a myth that you have mental freedom with that, ant this is a form of sponsorchip, despite if you did not sign anything. I am sick of this stuff on all youtube.

[@DaleStone]

That is not how sponsorship works at all, but feel free to timestamp a specific comment that you believe shows bias. I'll wait. 🙂

[@OxxidCZ]

This brake is shit and it makes me mildly annoyed that you're so forgiving in your reviews. I never heard you say "this brake is unsafe, it's a piece of crap, don't buy it".

[@DaleStone]

I didn't say that, because it's not true! Saying I'm soft on reviews is a hilarious take that makes you a big outlier. 🫡

[@OxxidCZ]

@@DaleStone sorry for being too negative. your content is amazing and a breath of fresh air in a world of bike magazines that are scared to say anything about a product in fears of never getting anything else to review. Thank you!

[@owenminor]

Don't support intellectual property sneak thieves.

[@DaleStone]

🚨 uneducated comment alert 🚨

[@jjmark4107]

i have a pair brand new anyone need？

[@DaleStone]

this doesn't feel like the right place... haha

[@wanderer2246]

Chineeeeese.

[@DaleStone]

And?

[@hucknroll6723]

So a knock off chinese company designed a brake lever that doesn't work due to a large adjustment knob and you are surprised? You think they even ride MTB's at the Lewis Factory or just knock off brands to sell based on trends.

[@pathfindr_]

Lewis Tech did their fair share in innovation with these brake sets, though the testing part is unclear, I think it isn't fair to say that they're just a knock-off

[@DaleStone]

I think you didn't watch my history video. 🚨

[@sampah89]

Says someone who knock off PinkBike as his YT profile pic as if you don't have a pic to represent your unique individual identity/persona (I don't care if this is an ad hominem attack)