Andor is a Marxist story

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

As a Marxist, the ideological orientation of Andor was quite obvious to me when I watched it. What I also noticed was the complete absence of contemporary culture war signals, whether woke or anti-woke, which probably is the reason why conservatives don’t have any problem with it. So when you create something that is REALLY left-wing, as opposed to the standard woke moralistic fake left Hollywood nonsense, many conservatives actually like it. I find that fascinating.

[@2fiafisdoafw34]

Marxist are antimodern cripto-conservatives, that's the reason.

[@sethiverson8299]

As someone who leans conservative and thought this was some of the best Star Wars ever made, the Marxist ideas weren't lost on me either. That said, there were lots of other tidbits from Damien's video that I missed or were developed further that I very much appreciated. I think more than anything else, this show demonstrated that writing a story based on ideals far surpasses something written for a social/cultural moment. Also, the writing is impeccable, the characters feel real and make decisions to match their reality (not ours), the actors performed superbly, and the production of the show was excellent. It's also just plain fun to have a good show with a compelling story that both politically conservative and liberal people can enjoy.

[@NullParadigm]

cause both sides recognize the same symptoms of the problem which free market supporters see is from the state and leftists see from private individuals..

[@aidanthepanda1473]

⁠​⁠@@sethiverson8299i don’t mean to sound like a rude nerd, but just fyi, liberals by definition believe in the free market so liberals cannot be marxist in case u didn’t know

[@tufab3494]

As a leftist I feel ashamed that there are people who openly claim to be marxist. It's like those people who openly say they're nazees

[@MinesAGuinness]

I know it was just a name that sounded cool when Rogue One was written, but I now can't unsee that 'And or' makes a good pun on the medieval dialectic upon which Hegel, Marx, and Engels later ruminated! :-)

[@brucesnow7125]

You are absolutely right. Gilroy basically confirmed it when he said that Nemik was based on Trotsky and that he wanted a character who could explain revolution in a "dialectic" fashion. You can't get any more blatant than that.

[@marcocatano554]

My first thought when listening to Nemik's first lines out of his manifesto. I could picture him in Russia in 1918, or in Italy in 1944, central america in the 80's. You name it. Pure revolution vibes

[@DamienWalter]

I haven't done it but I suspect you could find very similar lines in the Communist manifesto.

[@sizor3ds]

@@DamienWalter I don’t think it was mentioned in the manifesto, but in state and revolution, Lenin talks about how the role of the state is to suppress class struggle and maintain inequality. The more the inequality to be maintained, the harder the state needs to crackdown. Thats why when capital states to concentrate in later stages of capitalism, the capitalist state spends more of its resources on punishment and enforcement than actual productive forces. It’s also why capitalists will align with fascists when property ownership is threatened. In primitive communism(our natural state), relatively little to no state violence is needed. As feudalism develops, the landlord/peasant classes develop, a warrior class of peasants who align with the lords use violence and put their lives on the line and are required to defend this order. When Nemik talks about how unnatural the control of the empire is, I think he might be referring to this.

[@ryannelson4632]

Nemik's Manifesto is basically lifted from The Invisible Committee and Tiqqun, and are very much modern anarchist in nature(and slightly naturalist in the "freedom is natural" sense). I find very little outside of a Ferix proletariat to be explicitly Marxist, as that has been the only place we've seen a local economy at work. (Marxism is an economic model, not a political one.)

[@DamienWalter]

@@ryannelson4632 Well noted. Thanks Ryan!

[@timreeves8937]

I thought Nemik while watching was clearly an insert for the kind of marxist revolutionary that this video speaks of. Clearly a political ideologue as you saw in the russian revolution in 1917 in the lenninist ideal of an educated new revolutionary.

[@ranewanders8147]

I got out of the military 5 years ago (now mid-20s), and have since been compensated by the military for disabilities ive made tremendous healing. Since 2020 ive been travelling fulltime in an RV, basically retired for life. I use mostly my words & education to be revolutionary, but am disconnected from the means of production. Does that make me a lumpenproletariat? Also i was shocked to see the manifesto & quotes like "the pace of oppression outstrips our ability to understand it" from Disney itself, it's like someone planted a seed in the beast to eventually to its demise, almost like a thermal exhaust port in the Death Star

[@Hsalf904]

Little mistake here: Cyril Karn isn’t petty bourgeoisie. He owns no means of production. Petty bourgeoisie would be more akin to the owner of a small business on Ferrix. As you can imagine, this subclass is often more revolutionary than reactionary in certain instances such as this. Cyril is more akin to a cop. Also not sure if this is what you meant but Mon Mothma’s political position is not what makes her bourgeoisie, but rather whatever wealth of the Chandrillan elite she was born into. Also, Marxists oppose labelling communism as “utopian”. To learn more you can read Engels’ Socialism: Utopian and Scientific. The Aldhani heist is also highly reminiscent of the storming of the Moncada Barracks during the Cuban Revolution. I also don’t think Foucault was Marxist but his work often fits well into Marxism. Otherwise really cool video! I’m glad Andor’s Marxism is being discussed!

[@Daneelro]

IIRC we don't learn the source of Cyril Karn's mother's wealth but she does seem to have some wealth, so she is petite bourgoise at least. Foucault was Marxist in his youth but rejected it later and his post-structuralism was a definite departure; the 1976 work quoted in the video was from this time, so indeed not Marxist.

[@Hsalf904]

@@Daneelro Thanks for clarifying on the Foucault. Karn’s mother didn’t seem to have much to me, living on the lower levels of Coruscant and all. Even if she did we don’t know whether she attained her money from labour or ownership but it’s safe to bet it’s through labour or retirement funds.

[@denisevincent4050]

Somewhere on a discussion of Glass Onion, I saw a bit on how the Petit Bourgeoisie tends towards disruptive innovation (because they have leisure time that allows for 'tinkering in the garage'), and while this disruption can destroy an entire market sector (such as livery stables), it rarely revolutionizes entire socio-economic systems.

[@trev1463]

@@Hsalf904 I think that Karn's mother's apartment wouldn't qualify as the lower level of Coruscant - if it was in the lower levels they would get no daylight at all.

[@iunnox666]

The dream of communism absolutely is utopian. It's never done anything but lower the average person's quality of life.

[@moshiria1]

I totally agree. You can also notice most of the bourgeoisie and Imperialists in the starwars universe have British accents.

[@noheroespublishing1907]

"This was the thing that nearly had us mastered; don't yet rejoice in his defeat, you men! Although the world stood up and stopped the bastard, The bitch that bore him is in heat again." Bertolt Brecht, The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui

[@kevinkelly8995]

The dessert to this, I find, is all the right-wing youtube creators out praising Andor completely oblivious to their own irony.

[@DamienWalter]

I'm happy they like it, maybe it will stop a few going full fascist.

[@MustafaAlmosawi]

It is not ironic at all. I think reason is that they are reading the text from their context - by and large, the structure of their movements contain the same elements an alienated proletariat of dispossessed working class people, a bourgeois or petit bourgeois class who is resenting the power structures that are impinging on their beliefs and values, and a hard core intellectual and paramilitary elite as a point of nucleation for a coup. The difference is not in their structure of their organization which in any case is hierarchically archetypal, but in their teleology, mythology and ethics. It’s is in the pursuit of an ‘edenic’ natural state wherein White largely Christian Nationalists the ‘righteous’, the ‘elect’ are returned to their former glory. That’s why they read their own perceived struggle into it, and would be shocked that there are Marxist themes. Myself I did not read it as a mono-valent Marxist text, rather in an Islamicate pre-Apocalyptic lens and found much that was interesting there, though not as perfect analogy. I’m sure a Jordan Peterson - like him or hate him - could give an alternate take to various Jungian archetypes or Biblical stories for why those stories also resonate. That the show is anti-capitalist, anti-fascist, and anti-bureaucratic does not I think make it explicitly pro-Marxist in the sense of seizing the means of production rule by the proletariat. You’ll forgive my cartoon caricature of Marxist ideology, it’s not been an area of study except by general osmosis, and the occasional survey lecture. Love to know what you think 🤔

[@DamienWalter]

@@MustafaAlmosawi Great comment thank you.

[@MustafaAlmosawi]

@@joelhenry5489 I don’t really see another jump off point to explain why a show like Andor which has themes and structures that can be read through a Marxist lens can also be read as relevant and potent for a right-wing and possibly fascist leaning audience other than they are filtering it through their worldview. Post-modernism at its finest. 😂 Not being deeply familiar with Marxism it was really interesting to see Damien’s analysis.

[@MustafaAlmosawi]

@@joelhenry5489 Star Trek was always ‘progressive’ and actually helped pave the way for the current identity politics and gender fluidities. I think many viewers never noticed because the points of tension or discussion or debate were wearing prosthetics or an alien race. There is without a doubt a group who are simply whining at having to see women in prominent roles or people of color but I think it overwhelmingly a minority of the people who complain about the quality of story telling these days. Though I wouldn’t know because I don’t observe people like this except online and that is a very shallow level of interaction. Gender/race swapping a character but otherwise keeping them the same is it only bad storytelling- it actually flattens and homogenizes. Ironically that type of story telling is only possible by assuming the very thing that it is claiming to counter - that maleness and whiteness is the default. It’s the framework, the indispensable, the only thing that needs to change is a coat of paint. So partially agree with you, partially don’t, I guess 😊

[@EmceeZu]

Maarva's holographic message is reminiscent of the opening lines of The Communist Manifesto, "A spectre is haunting Europe-the spectre of communism."

[@DamienWalter]

Yes. And in the original spectre has a slightly different meaning, spirit might be a better translation.

[@JohnBrockman]

To highlight how similar the Republic and Empire are... the crashed ship in Andor's backstory was a Republic ship, and the mining operation was either Republican or Separatist.

[@DamienWalter]

Yes. Andor's world was destroyed under the Republic.

[@ApathyParabellum]

This is why it's sad to me that the New Republic turned out to be another failed fucking liberal democracy.@@DamienWalter

[@adamazzalino5247]

Nemik is Space Antonio Gramsci

[@chloeanzai7344]

Gilroy’s said they’re pulling from all over history and that Luthen will go the way of other revolutionary OGs, so that probably means he’ll be killed by his own people or die sacrificing himself (then be left out of the history books in favor of more appealing figures like Mon Mothma, Leia, and Luke). Also, while he’s based off of figures like Stalin, he’s denied sharing that ideology, only specifying anti-Empire. That ‘drawing from all over history’ comment also relates to what Gilory meant about the show ‘not being political’: depicting based on precedent but trying to avoid showing one solution as superior. You’re giving the writers too much credit for political messaging over simple depiction. This is written by Americans, more specifically the writers of House of Cards, Michael Clayton, Wall Street, the Bourne Series, the Ides of March, Nightcrawler, etc. They specialize in picking apart American capitalism and democracy, but clearly do not support Marxism in its place. It’s the typical “fascism is bad, but we won’t take a side beyond that” but done intelligently, since we have yet to find that answer. Too many people are conflating criticism of capitalism or western democracy with full disavowment of it. However, considering how Marxist many of the characters in Andor are, I’m curious if they’ll address the difference in beliefs between our leads and how things end up politically in the original trilogy. We know the rebellion ends in a conventional western democracy (which then gives way to another wave of fascism), so will there be any addressing of that? It may simply be that extremists fight the war and moderates get the spoils, or something along the lines of the conversation with Saw, where all non-fascists simply have to band together now and in-fight later. A great bookend would be a drama depicting the fall of the government created by Leia, Luke, Han, and Mon Mothma. It would presumably parallel what’s been going on the past decade (and on many other occasions throughout history) with the rise of populism and the right-wing as liberals become complacent. I don’t doubt Star Wars/Disney’s will cash in on this period of history, but I do doubt anyone with the Andor team’s level of writing will tackle it. As for why anti-woke people like Andor, they probably see themselves as revolutionaries fighting woke oppressors. They see themselves as a persecuted minority, same as Hitler, even though they themselves are persecuting others. The anti-woke crowd tend to make surface readings of media then bend the rest to fit their agendas.

[@Daneelro]

I also don't think that Gilroy and his writers' team have been consciously Marxist, but I think they half-realised truths, so implicit Marxism. As for anti-woke (formerly anti-SJW) people who like Endor, they are just idiots with not even surface-level understanding of politics, so a moderately intelligent storytelling is enough for them to miss the political undertones of any show, even if it is related directly to their misogynistic & racist obsessions. This is not really something new: they also missed the politics in the _original_ Star Wars series, the Star Wars prequel series, and Star Trek (the "wokest" of all "woke" shows from the very beginning in the 1960s).

[@ihc909]

Agreed, the bureaucracy in all systems of large government eventually steers towards totalitarianism. Hannah Arendt's book "the origins of totalitarianism" illustrates much of what's in this brilliant TV show.

[@Daneelro]

@@ihc909 That's a very US-American and very dumbed-down and ahistorical misreading. Totalitarianism, as understood by Arendt, is something very modern (not half a century old when she wrote her book) and distinct from earlier forms of repressive regimes, which existed for thousands of years. You could have a better argument claiming that "all systems of large government eventually steer towards repression", but that's not Arendt's claim and still isn't supported by history (most systems of large government in history were actually more repressive early on and then mellowed out). For that specific pathological US obsession with the dangers of any large government, you would need a much more focused claim: that systems of large _democratic_ (or, if you swing that way, _republican_) government turn repressive. However, the history of modern representative democracies is not long enough to make a general claim. Meanwhile, it's really sad that you could read Arendt's book with such a narrow focus that you missed all her actual hypotheses regarding the roots and necessary conditions for the rise of totalitarianism, because there was a lot there that had nothing to do with a central government. This is something Americans in general (not just libertarians) miss when thinking about the Nazis or the Bolsheviks: while both ran extremely pervasive and repressive central governments once in power, it wasn't central government power that helped their rise, quite the opposite.

[@cristiangerardinobilityhou5410]

1. The Soviet film - Aelita Queen of Mars (1924) - was one of the earliest science fiction films. Most science fiction films deal with social conflict. 2. Social Conflict Theory is an established academic observation in Sociology. 3. There is an Italian nobility figure that was involved in the film industry, not in the science fiction genre, he was a communist member of the Italian communist party. He was a Visconti Italian nobility family member - Luchino Visconti. 4. Point is that social conflict naturally has elements of Marxism-leninism (dialectical historical materialism) - basically, two sides fighting over political-material management of a physical area. 5. Star Wars did not end in a one party rule of the galaxy but rather a bourgeois multi-parties governing of the galaxy. One party governing is an end product of a Marxism-leninism manifestation over a physical area (a galaxy for the Star Wars universe). M-L strategy and theory is particular because the idea is that one party governing will reduce unemployment and reduce social conflict. Therefore, businesses will be owned by the party and independent entities will cause more conflict not less. Marx' 'Poverty of Philosophy' goes into this and leads to the term - economic variations - the thing Marxism-Leninism is trying to reduce. Bourgeois multi-parties liberal democracy is the halfway point into full communism. The theory is that Bourgeois multi-parties democracy will become corrupt also which will lead slowly into Marxism-Leninism one party governing body. It becomes corrupt because of the various independent economic players in the system of Bourgeois multi-parties democracy.

[@spridgejuice]

This is why so many people find Andor so much closer to "real" Star Wars than the algorithmically driven fan service guff of their other recent shows and films.

[@DamienWalter]

Also why it's so surprising.

[@arctic_haze]

@@DamienWalter Well, Star Wars were always about rebels. In other words about a revolution.

[@arctic_haze]

@@ColourlessGreen-b5z True. He was afraid Nixon would do a Palpatine.

[@shlockofgod]

@@ColourlessGreen-b5z Lucas makes stuff up after the fact. I like him but he is a liar.

[@elck3]

What? People don't like it because it supports communism

[@timreeves8937]

Excellent video. I feel prior to Andor, most people would argue that the "rebellion" in Star Wars was a bourgeois revolution, lead mostly by the "good" elites that were overthrown by the Empire (see the Jedi, Princess Leia and Mon Motha). Kind of like the "white army" in post revolutionary russia in 1917-1922. This show (and Rogue One- its predecessor) really is the first to posit a Leninist Vanguard that used very anti-"good guy" means of fermenting the rebellion. And although not deliberate, Andor and Luthen did "Accelerate" the rebellion on Ferrix. The debacle of the Morlana officers in trying to capture Andor gives rise to the Empire establishing control over the region. What is interesting to me is the security officers at the beginning for Morlana were really more of a non political typical police force. They are not trying to capture Andor for unethical reasons, but because he killed two of their own officers. They do not seem to "oppress" Ferrix in any meaningful way, and in fact Andor's friend states that the "blue" (their name for the Morlana police) rarely come out there. The residence of Ferrix seem to help Andor more out of a sense of tribalism than any politics.

[@DamienWalter]

Luthen is the key. Like the Leninists, he hates the bourgeois revolutionaries. We don't know his story yet, but his aim is definitely not the the restoration of the Republic.

[@toskvision]

I think the teasing out of the societal layers in Andor is something star wars desperately needed. Im still not entirely convinced this show will save SW from its kiddie friendly merchandising agenda but it's certainly painting in a corner of the universe that warranted it. It's a case of time will tell as to how much influence this show has on the future of the franchise. Great vid.

[@DamienWalter]

Thanks. I'm interested to see if SW can run family friendly / adult political in parallel threads. Interesting storytelling challenge.

[@tbirdguy1]

While it may not save Disney from making bad shows and movies, it is at least a spark in the darkness and mire that is the television landscape of the 2020's... corporations bathing us in content telling us to consume, detach, ignore, and accept the horribleness of the world without question. Andor as much as it as an allegory, is a story that is inspiring the way good theatre and plays are supposed to do... the way they were mean to. Watching it the first time, I don't think there is anything as powerful as Marva's condemnation of the empire and call to action. The moment where she says "maybe it's too late..." that line is so amazing, because it's the thought that many of us had watching Jan 6th, Brexit, and the election of various right-wing politicians in the west, more closely aligned with fascism then anything we've seen in 80 years. The thought echoed in my mind when I saw those people marching in Virginia chanting about jews not replacing them, or when I drove by a demonstration in my town where I saw a group of masked white men screaming curse words and racial slurs at people walking by. "Maybe it's too late..."

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@DamienWalter ​Because of the intertextual nature of all that Disney is doing, based in the MCU example, it’s not so easy. Rebels had this problem- it’s very much a lighter kid’s show (“PG”) so they had to make it somewhat self-contained because the core fan base (diehard completionists aside) is really more of a “PG-13” group. Andor is an “R” - the violence isn’t sanitized, the themes are pretty dark, there’s clearly implied sexuality (thankfully no use of gratuitous rape as a narrative device with Bix), though honestly they could make it more PG-13 if they wanted to. That Rebels and Andor are addressing the same time period may be how they handle it - have a kid-friendly bridge and an adult-friendly bridge that are ships that never cross paths. A dark side and a light side, if you will.

[@CarltonYoung]

I’m just catching up on your channel. 😊. Tony Gilroy gave us something we don’t deserve, this series will be talked about decades from now, film studies PhDs will have thesis material from this show. References to the works of Charles Dickens and Victor Hugo are just glorious and will go over the heads of modern audiences.

[@ComradeVenus]

"anarchy is truly a seductive concept"

[@thecinematiqchannel3610]

I am still wondering what this line means. It feels like a Marxist critique of anarchism.

[@PsilentMusicUK]

​@@thecinematiqchannel3610 Saw Guerrera could perhaps be an analogy for somebody like Nestor Makhno.

[@cloak211]

@@PsilentMusicUK You sure it's not Nemik (NEstor MAKhno)?

[@MarioPerez-ng9it]

@@cloak211 Not Nemik, even though you can draw frail parallels. Nemik wanted a new galaxy where political thought and reformation could thrive, and used self-sufficiency to get it.

[@steinarvilnes3954]

To me it seems that "woke" really means social progressivism and not really economic leftism. The anti woke people seem to in many instances enjoy media that have economic leftist messages.

[@theeyehead3437]

Nah man, they're just fucking stupid. They constantly rant about everything being a Marxist conspiracy, and their leaders, at least, fight for far-right economic policies and oppose the interests of the working class at every opportunity.

[@ranewanders8147]

That's an interesting point that majorly benefits what I've been trying to put my finger on, the 2 parties are too busy bickering & identifying over social structure that they don't realize they're blindsided in actual economic politics

[@steinarvilnes3954]

@@ranewanders8147 I feel many politicans feel that going to the right would cause riots in the streets and going left would lead to struggles with international competition. Combined with strong special interest groups on each side. So that make the economic politics mostly gridlokced. So they need to find some meaningless crap to argue about instead.

[@steinarvilnes3954]

@@ahabicher In a way Napoleon was an underdog, the others attacked him most of the them. One interesting thing is that the wars he failed, was the few wars like Spain, Russia 1812 and the Egyptian expedition where he was the aggressor. I would not say are any different from the left, in considering everyone on the other side from being anything else than trans Marxist Black transqueens.

[@traustibm]

That’s where nazis come in to exploit.

[@ptptpt123]

From Indian perspective, it's anti-colonial struggle. Self rule. No to centralised tyranny.

[@cjb53]

The stuff about Brecht made me think of Kim Stanley Robinson - I love his stuff, especially the Mars trilogy, but sometimes his characters just have to drop five more pages of political manifesto!

[@acaristic93]

I'd have some nitpicks to make about the exact understanding of marxist line of thinking and how it relates to the series exactly but overall very cool video! Thank you for making it^^

[@uprightape100]

Thank you so much.....this was a lovely, enjoyable essay. Also, when Disney's Mary Poppins came out in the early 60s, right-wingers freaked over it's anti-banking overtones. Never read the MP book, so I don't know what's in it, but that movie pissed off capitalists for ages.

[@DamienWalter]

Thank you. Mary Poppins was quite a subversive book as well.

[@bobmcbobson8368]

You used a pejorative to describe right wingers actions. We’re they wrong?

[@josemengelez6947]

@@bobmcbobson8368 cringe bot or genuine illiterate?

[@herobrinesblog]

7:00 "i dont intend to be political" said the french revolutionaries wearing their "fuck the king" shirt at the beheadings..

[@feralhistorian]

Excellent essay. Subscribed. I do find it curious that people equate "woke" with Marxism though. The whole premise of wokeism, identity politics, whatever one wants to call it, centers on discarding class identity in favor of mutually hostile groupings based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc, thereby making any broad class unity impossible. Given the massive corporate backing of "wokeness" I often think they may be the entire point.

[@DamienWalter]

Class war is a tool of Marxism, as social justice is a tool of Wokeism. The actual aim of both is utopian collectivism.

[@eme.261]

What I really find confounding are those fans who genuinely believe that there were no Disney executives who understood what ANDOR was really about. They are so invested in believing that Gilroy's somehow pulled a fast one, because if they accepted that Disney gave them exactly what they'd wanted to ensure that their pocket of hold-outs would willingly buy back into the Disney machine, then their heads would explode.

[@hcxpl1]

I'm a bit confused by your comment but although I don't think the execs realized how deep the rabbit hole went, I reckon it doesn't actually matter bc the depiction of revolution and the pathos that comes with it can easily fool one into believing they are doing something and drive them into inaction. TL;DR: In this Spectacle of a Society, no message is too disruptive as long as the show keeps on going, after all we cant topple Disney down bf they release the second season

[@eme.261]

@@hcxpl1 -- What I wrote was in response to the comments of others who claimed that the Disney execs were somehow bamboozled into green-lighting ANDOR. Why would they release a show that's anti-corporate and essentially encourages revolution and Marxist ideology? My question is: If there was a segment of the audience (consumers) who weren't watching Star Wars because it wasn't offering them the type of stories they identify with, why wouldn't they? Disney, when they're successful, is in the market of selling people what they want and, as you shared at the end of your reply, those people (consumers) will be too invested in the continuation of their beloved show to devote real energy into toppling the mechanisms that are in place to ensure Disney continues to thrive. Those consumers have to get the next season and the next before committing to doing anything. While they're waiting in anticipation, nothing will get done to improve their own worlds. Instead, they'll tune in to watch fictional characters act out their desires. I worked around a lot of executives in the entertainment industry. People can choose to believe that those at the top of the totem pole lack comprehension of the deeper meanings of ANDOR, but I would be surprised if that were true. They are in the market of manipulation-- how to convert attention into capital is their expertise.

[@eme.261]

@@hcxpl1 - I left a comment for you, but I suppose it was too revealing, so it got removed immediately after it posted. Let's just say that from the latter part of your reply, it seems you understood me perfectly, if not my reason for writing it.

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

I think at a more basic level, it doesn't even really matter whether Disney executives "understood" ANDOR or not. They simply wouldn't care either way. Capitalists like them view everything as a monetizable commodity, and they don't truly view any ideology as an existential threat as long as they have control over its dissemination. So there's little need for them to pay attention to those themes, or care when they notice them. Though, it _is_ a little ironic that this also has parallels with how the Empire operates in the show.

[@markplutowski]

Thank you for this excellent unpacking of the storytelling underlying this masterfully crafted production. I think you nailed it when explaining what differentiates this from other Star Wars mythology, in that this story is intended for adults. It takes a mature mind to understand that you win epic battles not by a hero single-handedly saving the day, but instead by a million contributions by mostly unrecognized participants. Nonetheless, the hero’s journey still seems to be the go to story for much of motion picture storytelling. Hopefully the success of Andor will embolden filmmakers to tell more stories like this, which are not so simple yet more satisfying and still enjoyable to watch.

[@DamienWalter]

Thanks Mark. No doubt the hero's journey is still a useful storytelling tool, but audiences who get wise to it move onto material like Andor.

[@squamish4244]

We can still have both. The Hero's Journey and the classic heroic or tragic narratives have endured for millennia despite, and because, they don't resemble our lives much at all because they have enormous power over our psyches. They will endure as long as humans are human. Classic narratives may not resemble our lives in a 'material' sense but they have everything to do with the experience of being human. I'm glad Disney has taken Star Wars in this direction, but if it went entirely in this direction, it would lose too much of the magic. So I don't know if you can call one kind of storytelling more 'mature' than another.

[@markplutowski]

@@squamish4244 I put it that way for this reason: I consider this kind of storytelling more mature because of its complexity and nuance. Childrens' stories are simplified, for their still developing minds. This story requires a mental model of others' thought processes that children have yet to develop. I wouldn't worry too much about Disney over-rotating in this direction! They're still milking a formula that as of this year is 100 years old. 😄

[@bpdlr]

This is the clearest explanation of Marxism I have heard in my 53 years on this earth. Despite these years, however, the 3 choices you lay out at the end of this video really challenged me to admit that my reactions to the problems of the world are still often those of a child.

[@DamienWalter]

For the life of me I can't remember what they were!

[@bpdlr]

@@DamienWalter 25:01 the mythic/child-like response, the adult response, or the fascist reponse.

[@farwoodfarm9296]

I am a big StarWars expanded universe fan, this show fit in with so much of the EU regarding the normal people, the formation of the Rebellion, the tyranny of the Empire. This felt more like "STARWARS" to me than anything else.

[@DamienWalter]

Yes. Disney's big mistake was abandoning the EU, which had the stories they needed.

[@shinluis]

Being a communist I always find these comment sections mildly amusing. Theres so much neoliberal bias everywhere; the red scare - a huge ideological propaganda spread by the US and its capitalist allies - worked wonders making everyone (including myself, up to a few years ago) incredibly averse to a movement that’d only benefits us working class mates. Every time someone mentions marxism, communism, or the soviet union in an even remotely positive fashion you need to tip toe around it, put disclaimers, buts, and little notes like its the devil - Which is exactly what the bourgeoisie (whom in socialism would be at least toned down, at best abolished entirely) would love for us to think.

[@letosgoldenpath1993]

And I thought I was the only one who saw the Marxist messages in this series. Thank you for this detailed analysis. You explained it far better than I could. Awesome! My only objection is the notion of wokeness. I never considered "wokeism" a natural element of Marxism.

[@ranewanders8147]

Agreed, I think liberal belief is politically considered the Democratic Party's values

[@djangokill65]

Conservatives tie wokeness to Marxism in an attempt to create social division in the working class. As the saying goes... "They've got us fighting a culture war to distract us from fighting a class war."

[@simonrabeder1599]

Star Wars was incepted as anti-imperialist and socialist from the start.

[@walterscientist]

I will explain it in short. Good fiction often has political message that I may or may not agree with. What is important for me to enjoy a work of fiction is whether it is well written/crafted. For example Star Trek TOS/TNG has strong socialist tone, but I generally don't mind. At it's core Star Wars always *was* about revolutionaries, I think Andor showing this angle more visibly does make some sense.

[@WmJared]

Solid analysis with great examples and good humor, hell yeah. Rogue One and Andor have been the only Star Wars shows I've really ever enjoyed, and part of it was the rejection of the Campbellian Heroic myth; so I really like how y'all've contrasted the storytelling styles at the end, partly through confirmation bias lol

[@suadela87]

One thing I absolutely love about Andor is it shows that what the Alliance is made of. It’s not made of governments of various planets forming an alliance against the empire. It’s the anarchists, MLs and revisionists forming an alliance to bring down a galaxy dominating colonial superpower.

[@DamienWalter]

Be prepared for it to show these are the weakest rebels...

[@Meatwadsan]

Tony Gilroy also said during some interviews that he's a student of the Russian Revolution and has a bookshelf for works from the Russian Revolution, Haitian Revolution, Cuban Revolution, etc. Andy Serkis also said in an interview that his character was formerly a union guy fighting for workers rights and was imprisoned for it, and had become disillusioned until Andor came along.

[@uzefulvideos3440]

For me the overall message was just anti-authoritarian, anti-imperialist, liberal, not Marxist. There's almost no critique of free-market capitalism to be found here, after all. Feudal, not capitalist structures are what's being fought against.

[@uzefulvideos3440]

​@Valer Valid points, but the relevant negative financial incentives are almost always set by the empire, a central, hierarchical authority that did not even emerge from out-of-control capitalism, but from a negligent democracy and merely uses the market as one of its many tools to secure its power and benefit their own. And those same financial incentives are very often shown as a force for good, too. So calling the show anti-capitalist is a bit of a stretch in any way, in my opinion. But anti-fascist, definitely.

[@DPRSashatown]

>There's almost no critique of free-market capitalism to be found here, after all. The corporate ownership of the sectors is pretty decently portrayed. Backwater planets solely maintained for extractive colonial labour, the populations tied to the alienated consumption provided by the illegal drugs and prostitution they allow, corruption as a defense mechanism against regulation by the empire, prison slave labour being used as a reserve army of labour.

[@uzefulvideos3440]

@@DPRSashatown Capitalism without rule of law and equal rights is feudalism. Capitalism always exists on a liberal foundation. But yes, profit-driven behaviour was criticized, but what makes it a liberal, not a Marxist critique, was that it's almost always direct coercion, not voluntary trade and market forces that make life for the average human harder than it needs to be. And the show overall makes sure to show people as individuals, with individual choices, driven by their individual moral values and world-view, which very much differs from the collectivist Marxist analysis of society.

[@tommygunn3369]

Dude are you the only sane one here?

[@DPRSashatown]

@@uzefulvideos3440 Do you feel there's adequate rule of law and equal rights in the US? Nobody would argue that it's feudal but the elements of the Star Wars empire are all present and dominant. The Marxist critique revolves around labour being coerced, controlled, and removed from its product. That's as present in the prison system as it is the colonial backwater planets as it is Cyril's job at the statistics bureau. Participation is only as voluntary as conditions allow and the conditions here are imperialism. I'm also not sure where you're coming from with the individualism critique. Every revolution is waged that way. I've never seen a telling of Soviet history which didn't feature the name Lenin or Bukharin or Stalin, individuals with individual backgrounds and goals. The Zapatistas are hardcore collectivists and we still know them through Subcommandante Marcos. The Marxist part of that critique is that they're showing the modes of alienation those individuals experience and how it compels them toward collective action. Cassian isn't spontaneously bringing down the empire because he has such an internal ideal of willpower or justice, but because his home planet was destroyed by imperial resource mining and his adopted one was ruthlessly exploited by corporate ownership under a public-private partnership with the empire. His actions in the series are within the conditional framework provided by those structures, and his role in the rebellion is out of the reserve army of labour. That's a very structural critique which I think is a good reflection of the dialectical inseparability of organism and environment.

[@nonamesplease6288]

The reason Andor is so widely praised is that it was well written and acted. Most of us have never been thoroughly educated, or educated at all, in Marxist philosophy or thought. Not only does this lack of education lead to the lack of recognition of the Marxism in Star Wars, but it has over the last 40 years made us as a society vulnerable to the creeping influence of Marxist ideology in government, our religious institutions and beliefs, our social institutions, and our attitudes toward the relationship between our society and every one of us.

[@denisevincent4050]

Walter has a spot-on analysis of how Andor could be considered a Marxist allegory. To my ears though, calling any modern political drama "Marxist" makes as much sense as calling modern Evolutionary Biology "Darwinist". In our current academic environment, we have theories in multiple disciplines to explain why after every four-ish generations, or 80-100 years, we seem to have civil disruption on the scale of revolution. There's Strauss and Howe's theory for historians, there's Noam Chomsky, Cornel West or Martha Nussbaum (who takes a dim view of West) for philosophers, Capitalism 4.0 (Aligning Business, Earth, and Humanity) or Environmental Anthropology for those of us in STEMI. Do we need to rely on antique theories of social and economic justice? I don't deny that the writers actively used historic examples of revolutions as examples. From Miller at CBR . com: "Gilroy discussed how actual historical events informed Andor Season 1, Episode 12, "Rix Road," in an interview with Deadline. "It's just so incredibly sad how easily available all of the things that seemed contemporaneously sad are through history, and that they just continue to repeat themselves," he said. "There are things all the way through the show, and I don't want to go through and quote chapter and verse, but this is the Russian Revolution. This is the Montagnard. This is something interesting that happened in the Haitian Revolution. This is the ANC. Oh, this is the Earth Gun Building, Palestine. This is the Continental Congress." But Andor also includes a startling amount of environmental degradation that results from the actions of the corrupt Empire, such as a mining disaster on Kinari (that seems to have killed the adults and left the children to fend for themselves), while Ferrix is a junkyard that leaves a bad taste in one's mouth, and the natives on Arkina 5 are outraged about their poor fishing, caused by Empire pollution. Maybe it reflects my bias as someone who studied environmental biology back in the 1990s (policy, politics and economics was required for my degree), but Marx seems to talk mostly about 'man confronting the materials of nature as a force', while failing to account for environmental limits. What I'm saying is that Andor was about a lot more than politics and Ghorman shipping lanes and the oppression of the lumpenproletariat. A Marxist analysis was a good start, but there's still plenty left on the table, if you want to do the full anti-woke needling. ;)

[@mrpieceofwork]

When I first truly stumbled upon Marxism, as an adult who had gone through a half century of capitalist propaganda and coercion (Imperial Core style), I did not have even the slightest notion that Marxist teaching would ever be disseminated by the likes of the Disney corporation. I have now been educated that it is indeed true. Which I find funny... there are all kinds of "revolutionary media" put out by the capital entertainment machine, and it's so obvious now that the powers that be accept and allow this, because they can then use it to divide the masses further, by funding the RW dipshits, who rally against the "woke agenda", thereby muddying and twisting the discourse surrounding the media, effectively keeping the masses confused, fearful, frustrated, and seeking solace from the media fire-hose, through ever more media.

[@comrade4792]

Great analysis, i loved this show specifically for the revolutionary undertones and the anti-capitalist and anti-imperialist themes. Can’t wait for season 2! 17:02 I’m a Marxist-Leninist (as was Stalin, “Stalinism” is not a real ideology) and have studied Stalins works, i’ve never seen any reference to accelerationism in Stalins works. The tbilisi robbery was expropriation of funds for further revolutionary activity, not an act of accelerationism to try to force a response from the state. Stalin’s real contributions to Marxism is outlining the tenants of Marxism-Leninism and expanding on the principles of dialectical materialism as well as being the head statesman of the first scientific socialist project.

[@carolynethrasher4527]

I really enjoyed this analysis. It will be interesting to see how the rest of Andor’s story unfolds.

[@ranewanders8147]

Are you implying a season 2?? Because he's dying in the movie immediately after, but there is infact an evident timeline gap for the last scene of Andor to his first appearance in Rogue One

[@DeepTalksTheology]

It's a mystery to me why you don't have 100k subs, Damien. This masterful teaching and cultural analysis. I had not even considered the Marxist implications of the show and was fixated as an American on how it seemed to tap into the revolutionary ethos of the American Revolution.

[@alfonsowhocare6700]

Humans were created to be " slaves " ( the Adam ), Now they are COWs : civilize obedience worker. Do that answer your question, IRT subscribers?

[@DamienWalter]

Working on it ;) And the same for you Paul.

[@samloutalbotmusic]

Yes, I have to agree! Excellent channel!

[@Daneelro]

Well, the American Revolution was not just led by but focused on the interests of a bunch of slaveholders and landowners, a rather different set-up.

[@TalleyrandsPuppet]

@@Daneelro Most revolutions have first been led by the bourgeois. Even the Russian revolution was started by liberal nobles in March 1917. The US revolution is one of the few that successfully stopped there.

[@Gabriel-br4qe]

I love Tony Gilroy when he's screenwriting but hate him when he talks about his work lol

[@Bayard1503]

It's more of an anti-fascist story... because it doesn't really say how the world of Star Wars should be, it's just that the way it's now is wrong. Basically: defeat the empire, after that people can decide for themselves what they'd like. And you see this because the members of the Rebellion are incredibly diverse, from the incredibly rich nobility like Mon Mothma to the poorest of the poor like Andor. Luthen is still a mystery

[@IdleWorker]

marxism is antifascism. fascism is conservative nationalism, and since marxism tries (but fails horribly) to create a society that is equal and just for all, it is by definition anti-fascist. Marxism isnt the only ideology that is antifascist though, so you can very well be an antifascist without being a marxist.

[@user-Radost233]

Thank you!

[@NullParadigm]

@@IdleWorker yet every fascist and even nazi were communists before becoming fascists & nazi. Lets just forget about the socialist infighting and disagreements that formed fascism...

[@kraeutrpolizei]

I love your framing, good camera work! Learned a lot in this vid, you got yourself a sub!

[@kraeutrpolizei]

@@aazz9676 If you spend time on youtube you don't see a lot of people putting any effort into their shots, so this is nice. I like the depth of field, the mirror in the background gives us a hint about his body positioning. I thought he was standing until i realized that he was sitting in the reflection for example. It also helps him giving more weight to his gestures. There's also this gradient running through the shot from left to right, from strong contrast black and white, to a more nuanced colorful right side of the frame. I am a video editor by profession so I kinda look for these things in a clip in order to find visually stimulating content. If you are interested you could check out an art history book where all these concepts are explained

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

The background of your home looks almost solarpunk, just wanted to put it out there.

[@DamienWalter]

It is, yes.

[@Crazy_Diamond_75]

@@DamienWalter :O that's awesome!!

[@BD-yl5mh]

Haha that’s a great little grab from you to pull those contradictory statements from Gilroy together “The show was never meant to be political” “We based the main character on Stalin”

[@krazmazov3043]

Great video. Source for Stalin's accelerationism? I know of no precedent for this.

[@monsterinhead214]

Well done. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

[@seapanda-117]

Even if everything you said was total trash your presentation and consistency of it over the long form content would elevate this to top tier KZbin. It helps that the things you said were quite interesting. Got a sub here. 👍🏻

[@badideabearcub2747]

It's interesting how everybody is finding parallels on different parts of history, and different ideologies. And even other works of literature. Some of them in my opinion, are quite an stretch. For example, some commenter said that the series depict the foundation of Texas. Others find it similar to the beginning of the independence of the USA. Another commenter said that the Empire are the monopolies, like twitter, and the users raising against it. In some countries in Latin America under socialist regimes, they feel this is a call of arms to end their agenda. So I think this is the kind of work in which everybody can project his own ideas of what is what the empire represents, and what is what they want to rebel against.

[@nowi211]

this show radicalised me fr

[@ffff7164]

De-radicalized yourself.

[@trioofone8911]

He didn't intend Andor to be political? LMAO. Maybe he intended it to be a farce instead... 🤔

[@Bonko78]

A neatly done analysis, although with some question marks. You round it off nicely at the end though. The question marks are firstly that, if it's a critique of capitalism the series doesn't do a good job. If the Empire represented capitalism, we would not expect to see the antagonists be bureaucrats or military officers, but corporatists and businessmen. In a depiction of an oppressive capitalist system, the corporations would probably make their own rules and not submit to any state powers. The Emperor would be a CEO or main shareholder and the storm troopers would mainly be used to secure trade routes and cashes of natural resources, not merely for maintaining political control. Mind you, this would be what we would expect to see depicted by Hollywood; oppressive capitalism without a state is so far an imaginary concept. Another issue is that, outside revolutionary ideals, many of the perceived Marxist virtues here are arguably about general oppression and rebellion. For example, the romantic image of the primitive lifestyle is indeed very Rousseau (who inspired Marx) but it also provides a generic illustration of violation and injustice that anyone can identify with. I don't believe Tony Gilroy intended for this series to be outright Marxist propaganda. But the oppression narrative is always attractive and this mindset already permeates most of the western world. It's possible that whatever Marxism was in this series got there by osmosis. Still... Marxist propaganda is also known for being deceptive and well hidden. Hard to say.

[@russmitchellmovement]

Marxism fails (utterly) as an economic concept, but as a *secular religion* it is almost unimaginably successful, to the point where it clearly infiltrates the mindsets of hardcore adherents of supernatural religion, and its general classifications of the variously-oppressed are a big part of why it lands for people.

[@andersfrieden567]

I think Andor is more specifically anti-fascist, which does not necessarily correlate with Marxist.

[@DamienWalter]

Maybe watch the video.

[@andersfrieden567]

@@DamienWalter I did watch the video and have my own thoughts on the topic. While you certainly can see parallels with the Marxist movements of the XX century, revolutions aren't always Marxist in nature, nor did they first apper in the XXth century. There are certainly Marxist characters in nature like Saw Guerrera, who is basically a Star Wars Che Guevara, the ideology of the Rebellion was not to deconstruct the Empire, but rather restore the Republic.

[@DamienWalter]

Andor is Marxist allegory. Watch the video. Whether it aligns with Star Wars fan lore is another question.

[@andersfrieden567]

@@DamienWalter did you read my reply at all? I said it clearly that I watched your video. I appreciate the work you've done for the analysis of the show, but I can't agree with it, because I just don't see Marxist allegory being the overarching story here. It leans more into the topic of fighting for freedom against a totalitarian regime and how much does comittement to the fight cost for people involved, rather than fight against opressive capitalism.

[@johnbrinker2580]

I believe Gilroy has said in interviews I'm too lazy to track down that he drew inspiration from various revolutions throughout history. For me though the strongest resonance is with the French Resistance. To me, it's Jean-Pierre Melville's film Army of Shadows set in the Star Wars universe.

[@eshitvaprakash6681]

Amazing video, but if I may, I'd like for you to review your notes on bourgeois revolution whose mechanization was slightly off, maybe Mao can clear it for you? Second, 'Stalinist Accelerationism' seems to be a composition of two ideas that are EXTREMLY different from each other. I daresay, none of Stalin's notable criticisms in modern Left-Wing circles would go anywhere as far as calling him an accelerationist. The very idea of it is inherently reactionary. A good reading on this can be Stalin's own "Dialectics: Historical and Material." Even Bukharin's arabesque, a chief opponent of Stalin or Trotskyite splinter group's critique would shy away from using that term. Do not get me wrong, if this was a review it would be glowing but as a critique it is might appear scathing.

[@cassiedevereaux-smith3890]

How is Cyril petit bourgeois? There's no ownership of the means of production. Best he could be is labor aristocracy, but even that I don't see enough evidence of.

[@MadDeuceJuice]

You fucking sold it to me mate! Getting a Disney + subscription

[@Chacarruna]

Such a great analysis!!! I loved the show, my only complaint was Diego Luna’s bland expression on all scenarios and situations. Nevertheless your analysis gave me a in depth understanding of the show and like it even more. Needless to say I find this ideology more appealing, despite the extreme are always despicable and deplorable. The political theory is there to see it when someone helps you to open your eyes, and fleshing the Stars Wars universe with the most realistic background. Real people and real situations that lack from so many science fiction. Thank you so much.

[@mkdir1490]

It’s almost as if Star Wars fans don’t actually care if the story is woke as long as it’s, idk, GOOD 😂

[@DamienWalter]

Or that when the Disney corporation churns out cheap trash, the youtube grifters persuade a bunch of morons to blame it on the blacks and gays.

[@thibaldus3]

@@DamienWalter Disney used the "blacks and the gays" as shields against legitimate criticism. Please, don't fall for their public relation tactics/propaganda.

[@gerardojg]

You were illuminating. I never saw it that way. I simply saw revolutionaries fighting an oppressive authoritarian regime. I was too caught up in the individual characters for a more insightful view of the story arc as a whole. Personally, I reject Marxism for the simple reason of its oversimplification of human individuals, like so many theories. Thank you for expanding my view of stories I enjoy.

[@DPRSashatown]

Solid analysis. Watching the series as a Marxist theory nerd, there wasn't a point where I disagreed with it or thought it was lacking in its critique. It's a great living example of why Marxism is uniquely equipped to dissect conflict and resolve it positively. It's so much smarter than any other Star Wars production I've seen and only comparable to the equally Marxist Star Trek DS9.

[@Morkftw]

Aside from Marxism as you describe it has nothing at all to do with Marxism as most of the Marxist ideology you portray is what pop culture and media or critics of Marxist theory portray as Marxism and many things you claim being Marxist being the OPPOSITE of what Marx said, the video is quite good, it's a very well-structured essay. It could be a utopian socialist allegory perhaps, but it has nothing to do with Marxist scientific socialism. But regardless of the wrong basis - from which it becomes obvious that you have spent time and effort reading about Marxism, but not the works of Marxists themselves - I believe that despite the flaws, this is a very well structured video essay, and with very astute observations with regards to film-making. Why would a company like Disney make a Marxist series, one that would lead people to consider challenging a system in which Disney has a prominent role? It would make no sense. But making a series that's an allegory of socialist theories that Marx proved wrong and ineffective in his works, is a great way of playing one more small part in diffusing the rising tension that's been fuelled by injustice and inequality in the world, in leading people towards strategies doomed to fail. Still, a very good essay, and while as a Marxist I disagree with, well, almost all of it, I think that it still is a very insightful critique of the series, and of it's political direction (the allegory is there, it's just not a Marxist, but more close to a utopian socialist one), and it shows a really great ability of the writer to analyse cinema, so despite my total disagreement, I liked and enjoyed the video essay.

[@markgallacher100]

Powerful and entertaining analysis - many thanks!

[@Brownyman]

I'm not saying the film makers of the movie did a bad job, but "Andor" strikes me as a better adaption of the 3 comic book series "V For Vendetta" than the film, or perhaps one truer to the source material in theme. It really shows you the lives of the citizens and soldiers who work within the empire. They eat dinner with their kids. They visit their elderly. They have friends and coworkers. The true tragedy being how similar we are as humans, and unfortunately then we go and kill each other over politics. I’d say that makes it more a work of anarchy as opposed to marxism. Anarchism also had a big role in “The Expanse” as well.

[@josemengelez6947]

the rebellion is a hierarchical military structure that evolves into a statist republic. you could maybe apply your tired anarkiddie analysis onto saw guererra's partisans... you'd still be dead wrong, but at least you'd have a leg to stand on.

[@joshmonaco6170]

Excellent analysis

[@sobaye9329]

I think the reason Andor is so good is because star wars is at its best when tackling issues of imperialism through a revolutionary angle. The original trilogy was, according to Lucas, meant as a critique of USA's involvement in proxy wars during the Cold War. The conflict is actually inspired by the Vietnam War instead of WW2 (as is often misinterpreted), with the rebels inspired by Viet guerillas and the Empire being based on the US.

[@PaulVanderKlay]

This was outstanding. Really good. Thank you.

[@DamienWalter]

Thanks Paul.

[@chmood]

“But first, I really hate Berthold Brecht!” BRILLIANT I’m subscribed

[@xDemonTech]

Great show and thoughts 👏👏 Though I'd say we desperately need to outgrow capitalism. Fight, as the international proletariat

[@statickaeder29]

Oh, how very lovely. I adore Andor because I see it as true cinematic art. Though I studied Russian language for 9 years, I don't know very much about actual Marxism. I do love your presentation of it with regards to Andor. Why don't "anti-woke" people recognize that this show is fundamentally woke? Because they don't realize that you don't have to be gay, trans, female or of color to need freedom, equality and a community that gives a damn, because that's what everyone's supposed to have. As an otherwise privileged person, I can assure you that there is a lot of blindness created by privilege - being autistic, lesbian and beautiful did not permit me to have that blindness, though I suffered from other people's blindness. I am very impressed!

[@IdleWorker]

marxism isnt russian. marx was german.

[@statickaeder29]

@@IdleWorker This is true. I also studied Russian Language for 9 years, and so studied how socialism effected Russia more than any other country.

[@IdleWorker]

@@statickaeder29 I would assume that you also studied history then? Because a language class gives you zero credibility when talking about history, political ideologies, and political history.

[@statickaeder29]

@@IdleWorker A language class - especially 9 years of study - has given me a long time to learn and be interested in in Russia. I am not claiming to have a Ph.D in any of this - yet at the same time I do relate, and loved the show.

[@IdleWorker]

@@statickaeder29 I mean, what andor doesnt show is how russia spiraled into fascism. Btw, also loved the show, am also an anarchist.

[@udbhavseth799]

possibly the best theoretical critique of a pop cultural mammoth like star wars on youtube. and i see a lot of youtube. thank you so much for this one, will subscribe to every channel and podcast you put out, so excited to see it all

[@DamienWalter]

Thanks!

[@kamillavalter]

Brilliant analysis, thank you! I enjoyed every minute of it.

[@eklipseRomania]

When people say they hate wokeness, it means they hate intersectionalism, and maybe, reject postmodernism as a whole, not that they hate class struggle

[@DamienWalter]

Well then they've really gone ass over tit. Class struggle is evil.

[@Gregolec]

I still don't feel Andor as a Marxist story more than just any revolutionary story, but I very much like your material. Also love the cat in the background.

[@paulh2468]

Andor really represents alienation. There are tons of different aliens in the series. My favourite are the sexy female ones with weird heads.

[@implicitmatrix1312]

While it is clear that Andor is definitely dealing in Marxist ideas, I didn't see it primarily as a Marxist allegory, but rather as an exploration of different radical leftist responses to fascism, with yes the Marxism and the accelerationism (which Luthen definitely adheres too) but also a heavy dose of anarchism. Some of the more overtly political content such as Nemik's manifesto and Maarva's speech sound like they could come directly from a modern anarchist zine.

[@DamienWalter]

Luthen is the core of the Marxist element. The revolution he is planning isn't about returning the Republic.

[@MotiviqueStudio]

Well, yeah. Listen to Lucas’ inspiration from the Vietcong.

[@DamienWalter]

"Andor"

[@GastonSuarez-o9q]

Love the intelectual level of this Channel, you have a subscriber for the duration

[@dubj101]

Great analysis. Ever seen the Simple Rick wafers joke from Rick and Morty? I don't know much beyond the basics on the concept of Capitalist Realism, but I wonder how you feel generally about the work and messaging of Andor and whether or not it is undermined by the reality that Disney is presenting it. You kinda glance at the issue i'm highlighting but I wonder if you have thoughts on this specifically. I found myself invigorated episode after episode, wondering how they could get away with this, then reflecting that capitalist power can get away with practically anything, including selling dreams of revolution back to us. I struggle with whether that's a cynical take or an accurate read of our conditions, and what if anything can be done about it one way or the other. Subscribed and excited to check out more of your stuff.

[@iunnox666]

Power can get away with anything. There have been and continue to be far more abuses in communist countries.

[@jbrownil]

Just like reactionaries talking about Orwell

[@SquirrelHill]

The reason that people who hate communism and wokeness love Andor is because this is not a story about left vs right. Instead, this is a story about authoritarianism vs libertarianism. I suggest looking up something called the Political Compass, which uses a two dimensional method of classifying political ideology into four main groups: Left-libertarian, right-libertarian, left-authoritarian, and right-authoritarian. Sometimes I lean to the left, and sometimes I lean to the right, depending on the specific issue. But I almost always lean libertarian. The only real exception is that I do support universal health care and other programs to help the poor. But I very much believe in private property.

[@gwynbleidd1917]

If you actually understand what private property is (private ownership of the means of production by individuals) and you support it, you're in no way on the left. You're at best a socdem or agree with some socdem policies. The left begins at wanting to abolish capitalism. Anyone saying otherwise is intentionally lying, politically illiterate or willfully ignorant.

[@majm9309]

Are they inciting revolution in (A) a democratic republic, or (B) an imperial dictatorship (masquerading as democracy)? This question matters a lot, and I imagine is the reason for the majority of the downvotes. There's a reason this video can't provide examples of people wanting to redistribute the means of production to the masses, and that's because Andor simply doesn't have Marxism as its core ideology. To be clear, it isn't championing _any_ replacement. (Communist, democracy, or otherwise.) It's just about tearing down a tyranny.

[@DamienWalter]

Google "Andor Stalin"

[@CrashCartwright]

I would agree. While storytelling can and does borrow from many sources, the final product is not always a direct expression of a specific source. In "Andor," I too see it as a fight against tyranny, and I think it's important to note that they're fighting a *government* that is taking people's belongings and then choosing who gets what. In context, the Empire took over Bespin in much the same way, and it was essentially a capitalist operation prior to that. They're acting like Hugo Chavez running around saying “Exprópiese!” and taking over capitalist businesses.

[@majm9309]

@@DamienWalter Are you talking about the Rolling Stones interview where they explicitly say, _"We're not doing [the] Stalin show."_ ? Seems pretty clear. It's also clear that not all revolution instigators or financiers are communist.

[@majm9309]

@@DamienWalter You mean the interview where he explicitly says something like "this is not [the] Stalin Show"? That seems to add more evidence to my version of things.

[@Keseleth]

Really well though and coherent analysis. I enjoyed it as much as watching the show itself.

[@TheUbik01]

You outdid yourself with this one. Very insightfull and alltogether smart. I have minor grievances and my orthodox marxist view protests at some points made, but all over very good. And correct too. Kudos!

[@DamienWalter]

Thanks George. I'm sure the true Marxists will correct me on many details.

[@breed4052]

The irony that disney of all corporations has its finger on the pulse of the shifting national mood

[@DamienWalter]

More that Gilroy smuggled ideas in that Disney execs were too dumb to even spot.

[@BD-yl5mh]

They can hear the guillotines being built and are making a late attempt to keep Mickey’s head on his shoulders 😂

[@ChrisGurin]

In conclusion,, we don't mind the oppression as long as we are the oppressors.

[@DamienWalter]

We prefer not to see the oppression.

[@MustafaAlmosawi]

Damien I do have a question about your comment this show is very woke, I think you made an argument that it can be read through a Marxist lens successfully, but I don’t agree that it necessarily follows that it is woke. At least not wokeness as commonly understood: primarily as a post-modern reimagining of Marxist ideas and expressed in terms of identity politics, and secondarily as a socialist or communitarian dialectic. Do you agree that it in the sense of ‘woke’ above it does not express much wokeness, or am I missing something?

[@DamienWalter]

The usage in the black community was and is awakening to systemic social injustice. Marx is the most famous analysis of those systems. On the right it's just a boogeyman word for common personality disorders of the left.

[@MustafaAlmosawi]

@@DamienWalter so it is woke in the first sense not the second. 👍🏼

[@josemengelez6947]

@@MustafaAlmosawi when defining a term it's prudent to defer to the folks who coined it in the first place.

[@v4ngu4rd84]

In order to believe this, one has to ignore several key aspects of the Empire’s portrayal in Andor, as well as the canon facts of the Empire within the Star Wars universe. Palpatine secretly orchestrated a war against private companies that stopped doing business with the Republic due to increased taxation. The companies also pointed out the degradation of democracy and the corrupt complacency of the bureaucracy-both things the Empire would only expand on. After the end of the Clone Wars, the Empire exterminated this competition and slowly consumed companies under the guise of improving efficiency and security. In Andor, we see this happen with the private security company. Seeing as how the tyrannical Empire seizes control of the means of production and consumes corporations, and the various rebel factions are working against that to restore free commerce and liberty, I would say Andor is anti-Marxist commentary. Or Marxist commentary for those who mistakenly believe Marxism is not built on collectivism, does not involve seizing control of the means of production, and does not result in the limiting of individual liberty to do it. I can’t believe it still needs to be said that Marxism is an evil ideology that has killed millions of people through the likes of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Castro-to name just a few. If that’s something you fetishize, I think you should be rooting for the Empire. The overarching narrative is not “Empire is bad.” That’s already been established and it’s never been the primary lesson of any Star Wars media. The core narrative of Andor revolves around establishing our personal values and exercising self-discipline over an otherwise aimless life. Andor asks us if the ends justify the means and what the cost of victory is, and it teaches us that the ends never justify the means and the cost of victory is everything we sacrifice to achieve it. Andor declares that winning isn’t enough. It’s how we win that truly matters.

[@DamienWalter]

The Empire is fascist. Luthen Rael is leading a Marxist faction in the Rebellion. You need to learn to seperate your emotional response from your critical capacity.

[@vlera8447]

Clear and incisive explanation with excellent examples. Thank you.

[@waterwheeltaichi]

Yes, though more nuances than presented here. I’ve had similar thoughts though not so thoroughly developed. What’s neglected here is that the narrative invites you to think through the morality of the characters and factions for yourself. This starts with the presentation of the idealized primitive “tribe” of children who are clearly the product of some catastrophic intervention and have no future in their current state.

[@RobertRodgers-r5h]

Another good reason to love Andor.

[@TalleyrandsPuppet]

3rd option is to fully support social democracy. You know, voting rights, education, freedom of press, regulated capitalism. Boring, but it worked incredibly well for Western Europe, Oceania, and 20th century US.

[@DamienWalter]

"The Empire cut us a good deal last century, we should just go with that."

[@TalleyrandsPuppet]

@@DamienWalter Very funny, but the point remains that it's not a binary choice of fascism vs. Leninism.

[@manoeljosedesouzaneto699]

After this analysis of the andor series, I started to like the content even more. Only the common people know that they have always been robbed, oppressed and deceived. The influencer's superficial argument made me want to read Marx.

[@comrade4792]

read Marx, but more importantly read Lenin!

[@wilikoki_ula2540]

Not bad, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with some of your interpretations of Marxist theory. Overall it's pretty good but some of the concepts you try to explain are a bit off the mark.

[@gloin1981]

Very interesting analysis! Not exactly Marxist correct, but interesting nonetheless!

[@wingsoffreedom3589]

Andor truly resonates with my libertarian heart, art belongs to all the hearts it moves and anarco communists don't have a monopoly on these themes.

[@johnnyjet3.1412]

Like another Popular Science Fiction - if you were paying attention to Star Trek you would have noticed that the Federation is :Stateless, Classless, and Moneyless.

[@DamienWalter]

Many people have paid a lot of attention to Star Trek and the debate over whether it represents Communist utopia is still live.

[@johnnyjet3.1412]

@@DamienWalter Now, find a right winger who loves the Space Navy Action Show and tell him - I hope you survive.

[@DamienWalter]

@@johnnyjet3.1412 Well, moderating a science fiction community of 25,000 members, many conservative leaning, I have done so, many times! In fact we have a thread ongoing m.facebook.com/groups/324897304599197/permalink/1580508609038054/?mibextid=Nif5oz