Dan Gibson's Qiblah Theory | Dr. Shabir Ally

Dan Gibson claims that the qiblah, or direction of prayer, was originally towards Petra, but was later changed to Mecca. Dr. Shabir Ally explains that Gibson does not have scholarly competence to make such claims, and he references scathing academic critiques of Gibson's work by respected scholars Michael Lecker and David King.
Dr Shabir says there were thousands of eyewitnesses to the fact that qiblah was towards the ka'bah. There is no historical record of Petra being mentioned as a place of qiblah. And Muslims disputed about minutae, with records of these disputes included in old works. If Gibson's claims are true, it is difficult to understand why there is no record of a faction of Muslims refusing to change the qiblah. Dr. Shabir ends by explaining why some mosques seem to face Petra. He says that early Muslims did not have the accurate astronomical and scientific tools we have today, but they sincerely tried to face the ka'bah as best they could.
0:00 Intro to Dan Gibson’s work by host Dr. Safiyyah Ally
0:47 Academic critiques of his work (Michael Lecker, David King)
4:00 Gibson’s scholarly competence (or lack thereof)
7:29 There are no historical records validating his claims
10:44 There were thousands of eyewitnesses to the fact that the qiblah was towards the ka’bah
12:09 Why it seems that some mosques were facing Petra
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[@QuranSpeaks]

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[@shakebraza196]

Its hypothesis not theory. Theory is a proved hypothesis.

[@peterhwang1860]

Not a theory but a fact. Nobody is touching Dan Gibson's science. Do the mosques point to Petra or not? If they point exactly to Petra, they point exactly to Petra. Can nobody refute this simple fact???

[@akshayg2966]

U guys are already funded by te rr or ist groups. What more funding u need.?

[@arunsethi3549]

The Only Kaaba built by Ibrahim And Ismael was in Becca Petra The Makkah Kaaba was not built by Ibrahim and Ismael and verse says that it was a Forbidden House 14-37 Transliteration-2 rabbanā innī askantu min dhurriyyatī biwādin ghayri dhī zarʿin ʿinda baytika l-muḥarami rabbanā liyuqīmū l-ṣalata fa-ij'ʿal afidatan mina l-nāsi tahwī ilayhim wa-ur'zuq'hum mina l-thamarāti laʿallahum yashkurūn Word for Word Dr. Shehnaz Shaikh, Ms. Kauser Katri, and more Our Lord! Indeed, I [I] have settled (some) of my offsprings in a valley not with cultivation near Your forbidden,house. [ baytika l-muḥarami ] our Lord! That they may establish the prayers. So make hearts of the men incline towards them, and provide them with the fruits so that they may be grateful.

[@shakebraza196]

@@arunsethi3549 wadi muharam is in mecca , not in petra अरुण । wadi ia seasonal river, mecca is flooded every year but there was no cultivation when Prophet Ibrahim left them there, after many years of the above dua prophet Ibrahim build kabba together with his son. Study properly अरुण।

[@akameel]

Early Muslims were masters at directions, using stars to guide them. What we need is to revisit the old mosques used by Dan Gibson and check back their Qibla directions scientifically. His study is replicable. We also need Muslim experts to do this…

[@KhalidHussain-no2el]

I believe he stated that there was trading between Arabs and China hence the Chinese built a Masjid for the Muslims to pray

[@KhalidHussain-no2el]

Modern technologies can be used to confirm this in very little time

[@KhalidHussain-no2el]

Astronomy is fairly accurate

[@colinpatterson728]

Akmameel - Already you sound more academic and scientific than Ali- Be careful my friend - The Mohammadans are hostile to academics!

[@yasminea7149]

@@colinpatterson728 There is no such thing as Mohmmadans

[@MadCapDarkglobe]

Trying to make sense out of Islam isn’t difficult it’s impossible

[@alit7313]

King was so upset because Gibson who was not a scholar in this field, did what King himself didn’t do, visit the locations of the mosques in question, and use satellite data to determine the direction of the early qibla. Kings whole career was being challenged by Gibsons new data which was backed up by satellite images, so naturally king would be upset, he was shown up by Gibsons in depth research.

[@Khadmunet]

True, King visited only one masjeed in Samarkand. Dan Gibson using GPS, satellite imagery, archaeology, Qur'anic and Hadith correlation, etc. visited most of the early masjeeds. Although he has not earned a doctorate, his work is more scientific and empirical.

[@Khadmunet]

@Siraj Haq The moment you stop searching for Al Haq or the Truth is the moment you stop worshipping Allah

[@colinpatterson728]

King is a potato! I'd kick him out of my elementary classes ! An absolute disgrace to Academia.....

[@2212funkyfresh]

@@colinpatterson728 hahahaha an elementary teacher slandering a doctors knowledge😂

[@colinpatterson728]

@@2212funkyfresh Stop it!!. I did not say I was an elementary teacher. AND the empirical evidence is important don't you think ?

[@ArtLogins]

Real science examins evidence to get to a conclusion, Muslim science picks evidence to FIT existing conclusion 😀

[@kanjatsiam]

The Guy just trying making money selling the book to Christian's readers. They just don't care even it no sense.

[@jeanmullen]

Not so... Dan has spent many many years researching this subject.

[@surewin3307]

@@jeanmullen if so,we muslims would be facin petra instead of Makka for e last 1400yrs innit.ya'll non-muslims argument prior to this are pathetic n appalling LoL

[@jeanmullen]

Ali Boya Well it's a little like " Quran preservation ". Doesn't exist. You keep going down the rabbit hole.

[@jeanmullen]

Siraj Haq There are ". Holes in the narrative ". In other words the history you have believed is false. It is coming apart at the seams. The quran that you believed has been preserved " word for word " is false. Many Quran's have been found, each one different. Your rites and worship practices have pagan roots. Nothing is holding up to scrutiny. Now as a Muslim you must deny these investigations, however, there are too many people out there discovering the cracks and discrepancies in the Islamic story. Review Dan's videos again. You will find he has engaged with Islamic scholars from the outset.

[@surewin3307]

@@jeanmullen LoL..u havent heard of 'hafizs' dont u?first,u get someone from your religion whom can memorise their holy book cover to cover then we can discuss further.

[@peermohamed6241]

My view:- 1. Dan Gibson just have to prove any masjid build between Mecca and Petra (middle is Madinah) - which direction they were facing. Because if any early masjids were to be build you don't have to go out from these range. His examples are all out of this range. 2. Also masjid nabawi where the prophet saw was establishing first masjid, which direction was it facing? We cannot dispute that the prophet saw was in MAdina and started his Islamic state rule from there. 3. Early Muslims were setting their direction using stars, and it may not have been exact. Because stars are at variant points at different time of a year. So if you start building a masjid in the month of Rejab and referring to a particular star at that time, that star may not have been exactly at the top of Mecca at that time. Even today we do check our qibla when the sun set exactly at the top of Kaaba despite having the goggle qibla direction checker. (meanwhile, even goggle earth was not accurate when it comes to the day which these tiny island countries borders between South America and Australia/ NZ). 4. The Abbasiyad kingdom established in Baghdad after the Umayyah. And this time it was known as the "Dark Ages" to the West and as "Golden Age" in Islam. Not only that, Baghdad was established as center of intellectuals. A lot of modern scientific findings were originated from here (although some were later claimed by the west as theirs). And one of it was the research on astronomy which gave them more accurate way to compute a direction when sailing. The first major Muslim work of astronomy was Zij al-Sindhind by Persian mathematician al-Khwarizmi in 830 CE. So its not a surprise that masjids developed after the rise of Baghdad as the center of intellectual during Abbasiyad time was more ACCURATELY directing to the Kaaba in Mecca. 5. On Gibsons claim that could the Abbasiyad interpolated the word Mecca into the Holy Quran later as there were various manucripts of the holy quran which dated to most ancient (or closer to early Islam) were burned under Khalifah Uthman Ibni Affan rule. This has been answered by early scholars and we Muslims don't have doubt on the existing Holy Quran as the original from Allah swt as He himself states in the Holy Quran QURAN SURAH AL HIJR, 9 (SAHIH INTERNATIONAL) (15:9) "Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We will be its guardian" However to a non believer this may not be enough. As such, the other evidence is the original Al Quran dating back to Khalifah Othman Ibni Affan (which was before even Bani Ummayyah and BAni Abbasiyah rule) which copies are available in the library/ muziems of Topkapi. Its known as Mushaf Othmani and its was completed in year 650 (Prophet died in 632, meaning completed within 18 years). Within this and the Birmigham Quran manuscript which were all compiled before the Ummayyah and Abasiyah empayer rule, how the word Mecca can come into interpolation into these early scripts? Unless Gibson claims these two were written during Abbasiyad time. 6. The claim that the Muslims after Prophet Muhammad saw burned the earlier manuscripts including during Khalifah Othman Ibni Affans time - various scholars has answered this well in the past including comparative religious study scholars like the late Sheikh Ahmed Deedat and Dr Zakir Naik. Its because the written manucripts during early Islam was in various 'dictation' form and some were written in their native dialects. This gave raise to concern that the scriptures doesn't look the same. To avoid this concern, Khalifah Uthman Ibni Affan took the final task to complete the COMPILATION of the Holy Quran into one mushaf. Its called Mushaf Otthmani. Its main task was to standardize the writing style into the native quraish arabic language (instead some in yemeni and other dialects). After this, the various manucripts were ordered to be destroyed to avoid confusions (as Mr Gibson has now). I have a feel that Mr Gibson was tasked to write this to convince the Muslim that the qibla that they pray 5 times a day is WRONG and as such, the Muslims will be weakened and abandon their prayers. As the speaker Dr Shabir Ally says, there is no so whatever reference in anywhere in the Holy Quran or Hadith to Petra on this. As the God Almighty who has given soo much guide to mankind in the Holy Quran together with his Prophet Muhammad saw, its unattainable to believe the claim by Mr Giobson that both God Almighty and the Prophet Muhammad saw had let the Muslims in DARK on this main subject! Good try Mr Gibson.

[@mansour9790]

Mental gymnastics

[@souhailbelo1719]

Mashallah, very clear explanation. Thank you!

[@daegograndynte2771]

The critical flaw of Gibson theory was the existance of Zam Zam water. As long as he can't prove the availability of Zam Zam water in Petra. Everything else is just radical theory.

[@valentino3228]

Islamic text are not reliable, we need exogenous, non-islamic historical texts to give weight to your assertions. It also raises several red lags how neighbour kindgoms and civilization ar that time knew nothing about Mecca, added to the fact that there is 0 archeological evidence of people having resided in that area of the world.

[@eerievon2208]

the trinity of petra… jay smith.. al fadi .. & dan gibson…

[@Khadmunet]

Dr. Shabir Ally and Dr. Safiyyah Ally, How would you explain the seemingly impossible journey traversed by Hajjar and infant boy Ishmael from Hebron to Makkah in the Hijaz which is about 1200 kms amid a hot, scourching, desert sun? Highly inconceivable and unbelievable. Allah has given us the greatest gift and tool, our rational faculty to distinguish right from wrong, truth and falsehood. The sheer distance alone is already adequate to point out why Bakkah (Quran 3:96) should be nearer. Unless Hajjar and Ishmael has flown with a flying carpet. The Big Fallacy is the Makkah-is-Bakkah Tafsir which has been unchallenged for 1300 years because of a political pressure from the Abbasid Caliphate who is the primary sponsor of this mess. Allah in the Qur'an has long provided the answer to the political turmoil that give rise to this displacement of the Qibla of the Muslim world. Do you find any verse in the Qur'an that says Bakkah is Makkah? Let us give due respect to the words of Allah in the Qur'an that Nabiollah Ibrahim (AS) built the Kaaba at Bakkah (3:96) for where the Kaaba is the Masjedul Haraam also stands (Qur'an 2:144). The tomb of Nabiollah Ibrahim (AS) is located in Hebron which reaffirms the point of origin of Hajjar and Ishmael's historic journey.

[@eerievon2208]

@@Khadmunet well if u want to believe petra was bakkah/makkah… up to u.. i hold to the quran . the bakkah/makkah/mother of all cities situated at the same site since the time of nabi ibrahim a.s…. u r using ur own mind logic even by ridiculing what might nabi ibrahim a.s … hajar a.s & nabi ismail a.s used to travel to makkah … if u used ur logic interpretation.. how on earth can a red camel appeared frm a rock..? surrendering to Allah’s will n kalam in the quran is the main focus as a muslim .. that’s is ur aqeedah… if u doubt that.. i guess u better fixed ur aqeedah first between moving further .. may Allah guides u n me insya allah..

[@surewin3307]

@@Khadmunet u a 'christian' right?u believe the miracles perform by Moses, Jesus with Allah Swt permission yet here u tryin to question the journey which Hajar r.a n Ismail a.s been through as illogical..pathethic!

[@juslostone]

As a Muslim I do have to say this video is a very very very poor argument and poor defense. I think Muslims need to go actually view what Dan Gibson has to say. And what? Dan Gibson doesn't actually pinpoint is the Abassid caliphate wrote Hadith 200 years after the prophet and they tried to cover up and destroy Islamic sources that existed before them. Very important

[@Thesortvokter]

Thanks for your honesty.

[@selamlaut8165]

Not sure why my comments were deleted. I didn't t use any vulgar words and not offending anyone.

[@irfanmehmud63]

Mostly the Christian apologetic youtube channels promoted Dan Gibson for obvious reasons.

[@peterhwang1860]

Not a theory but a fact. Nobody is touching Dan Gibson's science. Do the mosques point to Petra or not? If they point exactly to Petra, they point exactly to Petra. Can nobody refute this simple fact???

[@irfanmehmud63]

@@peterhwang1860 The history was tampered in such a larger scale yet there is not even a single hint of it in any sources. Only a person blinded with immense prejudice would believe in such a hypothetical cover up.

[@peterhwang1860]

@@sirajdnnasir5301 No, Gibson found that all the earliest mosques point to Petra, not Jerusalem, not Mecca. Everyone is just taking pot shots at the man, but nobody is challenging the science.

[@abgashaari]

@@peterhwang1860 "Nobody is challenging the science". Even in this video, Dr. Shabir is challenging the science. Minute mark 12:10

[@corazoncubano5372]

@@peterhwang1860 Brown offers no historical or archeological facts to back up his belief that that Muslim quibla was ever Petra.

[@MUSICSTATIONBAND]

attacking Dan Gibson's credentials doesn't do anything. it all makes sense and all Dan Gibson did was read a problem and now his Theory has explained the problem which not a single muslim today and ancient was able to explain. it also is more clear when one wathes CIRA international with Jay Smith.

[@SullyOrchestration]

What an amazing episode. Really loved this!

[@adkh5826]

thanks for the timestamps

[@Mamluk8989]

Like the Quran says (2:177) Righteousness does not consist in turning your faces towards the east or towards the west;175 true righteousness consists in believing in Allah and the Last Day, the angels, the Book and the Prophets, and in giving away one’s property in love of Him to one’s kinsmen,....This theory is just trying to confuse people the direction of prayer doesn’t make one Muslim.

[@hiizuki]

Exactly!

[@johnburner3992]

Let's not use 1 verse to try and prove an argument. 2:177 in the Quran was pointing out the essence of being a muslim. But it doesn't mean that one should disobey the rest of it's instructions! Read Surah Al Baqarah 2:144. There are also other verses which advises Muslims to turn towards the Qiblah when they pray.✌️

[@garry5oh]

How do you explain the compass and GPS readings that point to Petra for these old Mosques?

[@faisalwho]

Imperfect method of calculation. The method was refined over time so the masjids orientation improved. (This is why earliest pointed to Petra, later pointed in the middle, then even later pointed towards Mecca). Using one method will yield consistent results, so the original method was very good at pointing towards Petra, and good enough to use to point to Mecca, so they used it.

[@faisalwho]

@@hmlinder they weren’t?

[@alvi78]

So even if Petra is the actual Mecca, what is the big deal about it.?...why do you need to be so passive aggressive and defensive about it?...even as a 9-10 year old growing up in Saudi Arabia to Pakistani parents, I could see the disonnance between the fables of early Islam and the barrenness of the place...water, floods, fruits, trade...seemed implausible in that god forsaken climate...The Kaaba has been demolished countless times, it is only the Hajra Aswad which is the main religious heirloom. Do you not think it is so easy to move Hajra-e-Aswad.? Also, may I add, you can never go from Mecca to Karbala in 20 odd days ( Imam Hussain ) ......it is very plausible if you travel from Petra though!

[@alexanderv7702]

As-Salāmu alaykum Mount Sinai, where Moses got the Ten Commandments, is believed by scholars, laypersons-and tradition-to be in Egypt; where in fact the "real" Mount Sinai was in Midian, which is situated in North West Arabia. Even the locals identify the area as "Jabal Al Lawz". For additional information: THE EXODUS CASE By Dr. LENNART MÖLLER

[@banzakidimye348]

Do not belittle “folk astronomy”. Polynesian sailors were able to pinpoint small islands in the vastness of the Pacific Ocean without the aid of mathematics, compasses, and other technologies. Now that the “folk astronomy” has been lost, we do not know how they did it. Likewise, when the early mosques were constructed facing Petra - with pinpoint accuracy - the builders knew exactly what they were doing. Do not belittle the abilities of your ancestors.

[@banzakidimye348]

@Siraj Haq that is an assumption.

[@shirkophobe]

Ok, point taken. Now explain how the knowledge that ancient Polynesians had got to early Muslims in the mountainous Hijaz of the Arabian Peninsula. Big stretch. The video also addresses this idea of how early Muslims derived qibla. Also answer the question posed in the video about why there are ZERO writings in hadeeth/tafseer etc. about any Petra qibla when much smaller points of contention regarding the practice of Islam were known and recorded for posterity.

[@shirkophobe]

@Siraj Haq The qibla is the Kaaba. Every Muslim knows this. But yes, the methods used to determine the qibla were not exact. Not until centuries after, as pointed out in the video.

[@Rotisiv]

@@banzakidimye348 Ok, but I just want to know your opinion on this: Why would Muslims pray towards Petra? There’s absolutely no religious significance for us there, there’s no Kaaba, there’s no ancient mosque/temple built by our Prophet (peace be upon him there), historical evidence doesn’t point to ANYTHING even scarcely islamic or relating to Islam that is in that ancient city. What we muslims covered it up? Give me a break. There are MASSIVE AND MASSIVE AND MASSIVE books concerning the life of the Prophet in MECCA! The information is too wide and popular and big to be made up especially through the span of 1400 freaking years, surely evidence of an islamic sect that prayed towards Petra would pop up right? But WAIT no such thing ever happened u know why? Because Muslims have always prayed towards Mecca and Mecca alone. The city’s name is even mentioned in the Quran which is the heart of Islam: *And it is He who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them within [the area of] Makkah after He caused you to overcome them. And ever is Allah, of what you do, Seeing.* Quran Al-Fath - 24 And here’s the transliteration if you want to make sure that the Original arabic does say Mecca: Wahuwa allathee kaffa aydiyahumAAankum waaydiyakum AAanhum bibatni *makkata* min baAAdi anathfarakum AAalayhim wakana Allahubima taAAmaloona baseera

[@raden1998]

@@Rotisiv Christians say that Isaiah 42 is not about Muhammad, because the Sela is not sela of medina but rather in Edom which is Petra. Now, they have to accept prophet Muhammad since they believe Dan Gibson, lol.

[@ajibosemoshoodabiola2455]

MashaAllah BarakAllahu fih Dr. Shabbir Ally!

[@zainrno]

Yes understandable Dan Gibson's theory about Petra being Mecca is flawed. But then parts of his theory could be valid, e.g., that there was a Mosque in 2AH in China and 8AH in Kerala, also, there could be another earlier Kibla, as we know that Kibla change did happen after Hijra. The scholars think that Abdullah Bin Zubayr maybe moved from another Mecca(in another area, not Petra) and settled to the Mecca of today. The thing is as scholars are pointing out that Islam solidified much later and probably partly created/solidified by Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. Before, that Islam was not a proper religion and just a Christian sect, hence the Mosque in China and Kerala could be Mosques of that other Christian sect which later became Islam. There were many holy sites before in Arabia called Ka'ba. So if one of them is swapped for the other one and others were discouraged, how would a pilgrim know that which one was the actual Ka'ba of the Prophet. Please, do not simplify the whole issue in mockery of others. You can laugh at Dan Gibson and Petra being Mecca is a bit laughable, yet he has tried to make sense of things. It is equally laughable that there is no written Muslim history available for 200yrs after the so called existence of Islam and we Muslims are content in not critically analyzing our own history and others have to do it for us as they deem fit. There isn't much known about that part of history from that time period. At least, there is no Mecca of today (which was called Um al-Qura and Becca and the most important city in terms of trade) found anywhere in the historical record of that time. Mecca of today is not even on the trade routes of that time. So, yes you should falsify Dan Gibson's theory but then also, provide how is the history of Islam valid or truthful in the light of facts that we know today. Please, do a video or write research paper/book on critical analysis of the history that we have of Islam from our own sources. So, that we can be sure about the veracity of our own history and claims.

[@MyBuzzL]

lol, even the real christian scientist christian from england is roasting dan gibson, not mocking, not disagreeing ROASTING. this is how much stupidity of how dan gibson is.

[@imadabiad4326]

1) It is clearly mentioned in the Quran that the masjid al haram is located in wadi Becca. Why would the Quran say Becca in one place then Mecca in another? No one could explain the reason in the discrepancy in this one letter at the begining of the word! The only explanation I heard was, sometimes the B is pronounced as an M (acoustically/phonographically speaking), and obviously this is not very convincing. 2) the masjid al Haram was built by prophet Ibrahim (as) who was born in the city of Ur (today Urfa), in babylonia near the Turkish border. He was ordered to travel south to the land of Canaanites (philistine) with his nephew lot. Everyone knows the story of Lot and the destruction of the lustful cities at the border of today's Palestine. Abraham and his cousin Lot lived together and near to each other. This location was very close to Petra where was already a major settlement there. This city was called The "Arabian Pietrus" or Petra, because of its famous carved stones, built by the Nabateans (the Arabs). 3) the burial place (the tombs) of prophet Ibrahim, his wife Sarah, his sons Isaac, Ismael, Jacob (and their wives) is in Hebron (Haram Ibrahim Al Khalil) Palestine! 4) prophet Salomon (Suleiman as) lived and dued in Jerusalem Palestine. Prophet Davud, lived and died there too. Prophet Musa AS. Is buried in Al Janin Palestine!!, Eissa AS son of Maryam , ascended to the heavens from the esplanade (hill) of the masjid al Haram in Jesrusalem Palestine! 5) the Qiblas during the time of prophet Mohammed (pbuh) were all in the direction of Jerusalem (wadi Becca). They were changed after his death and after the construction of the Kaaba in year 700 AD in a new location they called Mecca 1200 miles away south east from wadi Becca. 6) the Masjid in Jerusalem was constructed in year 705 AD by the Ummayad Caliphs and they decided to call it al masjid al Aqsa. Kindly notice that the Quran had mentioned by name the Masjid al Aqsa as the place where Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) ascended to it , but it was re-built in year 705 AD (as it was completely destroyed by an earthquick), after the death of the prophet. If you read the Quran very carefully, you will understand that what Allah called Masjid Al Aqsa in this particular verse, in not an earthly masjid, but a heavenly masjid (located in the heavens where prophet Mohamed ascended to it in his night journey). "Al Aqsa" meaning literally in Arabic, the farthest point where no further is possible!! Why would moslems call this building masjid Al Aqsa especially if it was constructed in year 705 AD and 5 years after they built the Kaaba in Mecca? 6) indeed there were olives, grapes, figues and pomegranates and abundant water in wadi Becca. That is a fact. Those fruits do not grow in Mecca! 7) the prophet ascended to the heavens from the Masjid al Haram. We all know where he ascended from and know the dome of the rock from where this journey took place. The paradox is why he did not ascend directly from Mecca but had to go to Jerusalem first!! What was so special about that location?? Was it perhaps because the real masjid al Haram is indeed located in Jerusalem (wadi Becca) and the Quranic verse literally states that he ascended to the heavens from Masjid Al Haram? 8) All prophets since prophet Ibrahim tend to be strongly attached to this holy land, they are all buried in its soil. There can only be one masjid Al Haram and one holy land. Can there really be more than one? Like two holy lands? 9) why all three religions are fighting about this particular spot on earth? Isn't because prophet Ibrahim is our common denominator? 10) if Mecca and the Kaaba (in Saudi Arabia) were so holy, prophet Ibrahim and all his descendants would have, lived, died and been buried in its proximity. Isn't not weird that it is not the case? 11) the missing link Petra, is that it was the home place of prophet Mohammed pbuh, and he was fighting in the legacy of Ibrahim AS. Wadi Becca (Today's Jerusalem) is the place where the Masjid al Haram was built by prophet Ibrahim AS, and all his descendants promised him to always protect and to continue the legacy of what their forefather taught them. 12) finally you can refer to these important verses from the Quran, 9:107-110, and read it by removing (if any in the english translation) the extra two words " Ô Mohammed" or " Ô prophet" because this changes the whole context, as it is not prescribed in the Arabic version!!! The message is for all the believers reading the Quran for all times !! Now and the future. Hoping to have shed a little light the best way I could, to a frustrating and distorted history taught to the moslem world since many centuries. All comments are welcome.

[@danteinferno8983]

we have to add 1.from 3000 years before Christ up to 100 years after Christ there was no nation in and around the Mecca in Arabia 2.The language of kuran origins is exactly from Jordan 3.allat , manat ,uzza origin are from jordan not south of Arabia 4.why hussein ibn ali left mecca in the year 61 , in 8th زی الحج and arrived Kufa in 1th Moharram within 24 days with big caravan , means 1800 kilometer diatance , impossiple at least it needs 40 daya, but thia timing fits petra to kufa

[@danteinferno8983]

thank you for your information , Muslims smust accept the truth but the deny

[@bigben3019]

What about yathrib? The prophet went there? And mecca? These are mentioned once in the quran

[@faisalghiar]

Lol 🎉 I’d like to laugh at your absurdity you have thrown bots at all the bacca videos lol to comment

[@Khadmunet]

Well researched and logical. Al Haq is liberating.

[@chesireaccio4856]

Why the Petra theory seems interesting for many non-Muslim: 1. It is a good content for KZbin and documentary streaming platform. You can see a lot of people used this for their content. 2. For people who just don't like Islam, this is a good "weapon" to attack despite its flaws. 3. For evangelist, this is a really good way for Muslim to doubt Islam

[@jurgeni7545]

funny how most thought moses mount sinai was in egypt when in reality is in SAUDI arabia they hate the fact that even a biblical also a quranic prophet a great figure is tied to saudi arabia and not only him, lots and lots

[@Khadmunet]

On the contrary, it has strengthened my faith or emaan in Allah. I have learned to regard Allah's greatest gift, the rational faculty, as a blessing, not a curse. If we stop searching for the truth (Al Haq), then we have stopped worshipping Allah. If the Arabs have the tenacity to kill a grandson of the Prophet of Islam, by Allah, they can abandon the Kaaba and hide the truth about the abandonment or displacement of the original Kaaba, even pressure all the Islamic scholars to fashion their Tafsir based on what is false. This is what the Abbasid Caliphate did and the Scourge of Allah fell on them with the sacking of Baghdad in 1258 AD.

[@Khadmunet]

On the contrary, Dan Gibson, Smith, and Al Fady has done little to malign or dishonor Islam with their works or findings. In the first place the Qibla had not disappeared. With GPS, satellite imagery, Qur'anic and Hadith correlation, archaeology, scientific evidence, and geography can pinpoint the exact spot where the Masjedul Haraam once stood. Allah will shower us with blessings and abundance if we will be able to determine with pinpoint precision where the exact spot is. The Muslim world has all the resources to build a new Masjedul Haraam and Kaaba. Meanwhile, the Muslim world can revert back to the First Qibla in Al-Quds while preparation are in the way to rebuild the Masjedul Haraam and Kaaba. Actually, I have spearheaded a movement last year along this direction.

[@Khadmunet]

The content is a very significant in Islam in so far as the fulfillment of 2nd and the 5th Pillar of Islam. In Let the Qur'an Speak, the Qur'an had indeed spoken 1400 years ago, "Bakkah" is where Nabiollah Ibrahim built the Kaaba. The Qur'an is very consistent - and uncompromising. And "Bakkah" - is distinct and separate from Makkah in the Hijaz. I would have believed that Hajjar and Ishmael traversed at least 1200 km distance, even if it were almost, I should say, an impossible or inconceivable feat amid a hot, scourching desert sun, but a political event happened, the Second Islamic Civil War, that polarized the Muslim world then. The siege of Bakkah (not Makkah) partly damaged the Kaaba when catapult stones were bombarded by the Ummayad forces against the forces of the Governor of Bakkah, Abdullah Ibn Zubair in 682 AD. At this juncture it was reported that Ibn Zubair further dismantled the Kaaba and took the "blackstone". Between 684 AD and 689 AD Ibn Zubair transported the "blackstone" to Makkah in the Hijaz. There, Ibn Zubair started the construction of a new Kaaba incorporating therein the "blackstone". It was not until 697 AD that the new "Kaaba" and "Masjedul Haraam" was completed by the followers and allies of Ibn Zubair. Hajjaj killed Ibn Zubair in 692 AD in the Masjedul Haraam in Bakkah. This explains the displacement of Bakkah to Makkah, which was made permanent by the Abbasid Caliphate. Bakkah and Makkah are distinct and separate. The historical displacement is obvious. Nothing has been damaged in Islam with our disvovery of this displacement because this error is reversible. How can the evangelist take advantage of this error? We just have to launch a global campaign to the Muslims about this tragic event in Islamic history. Our forefathers committed this error so it is for today's generation to correct it.

[@peterhwang1860]

@@Khadmunet The evidence is accumulating that all the stories about Muhammad and his companions are fabrications invented centuries later by the Abbasid caliphate. Please free Indonesia from these falsifications.

[@luizdesousa7079]

Makes sense now, why Mohammad prayed north towards the valley of Bakkah(Petra)

[@panduwilantara3070]

and where well zam2 at petra 🤣

[@user-my8sf4mv5j]

Macca is not in the current saudi land that is for sure as per the description of mecca in quran and quraish but where exactly i don't know .. could be in jordan

[@Thesortvokter]

Could be in Petra...would fit most well..

[@daniellimo4087]

you are not addressing the holes in your narrative. Gibsons concept is that the original Mecca is Petra. He not only uses the qibla but also geographic descriptions which fit Petra and not Mecca. Todays Mecca has no archeological evidence of it being an ancient town. That zamza well is water made with US technology. If you guys can lie about perfect preservation, why can't you lie about moving Petra.

[@omerturkoglu4259]

Hahahahahahahaha ok

[@Sanddollar1]

@@omerturkoglu4259That’s not a reply either.

[@thetruthseeker4985]

Best comment

[@iness.cherkes]

Can you please tell me more about zamzam? I found strange the taste is very different now from the taste of 2000 year. Logically, water keeps its taste.

[@thetruthseeker4985]

@@iness.cherkes he mentioned it in the comment? Selective reading? Read it again

[@skillzfcb1478]

I find it really ammusing how these missionaries are trying so hard to find a flaw in the quran. Oh Allah how perfect you are and how perfect is the recitation of the quran alhumdulillah. These people aint even doing it out of interest they are really doing it out of anger and fustration. We as muslim dare not to speak about certain things we dont know about but these people already took another deity to there creator now they are going against the creator again through islam. The hole they are digging trying to find holes in the quran may Allag be easy on you on the day of judgement day they shall be opponents to all prophets astaghthrulillah.

[@skillzfcb1478]

@Glenn The Evangelist its not about having a huge imagination its about using your logic. People have read the bible and there are things that dont add up its a matter of belief we all come from the same creator we believe in the same prophets may Allah bless them all. People have the right to there belief even if we agree and disagree as human beings.

[@faiz8830]

@Glenn The Evangelist the Bible contradicts itself... How did Judas die? Suicide (Matthew 27:5) or accident (Acts 1:18)?

[@skillzfcb1478]

Forget judas how did jesus die ? Thats the big contradiction in the bible. I guess u will say he died for your sins

[@ishmaeljohn5707]

Hello shieyk :@; Is r shieyk r duke or vice versa or can shieyk be title a duke

[@sparephone8228]

What would really make a complete mockery of Dan Gibson's theory is if historical documents from the Christian Abyssinian rule of Yemen came to light describing the 'Year of the Elephant'. The story is given some small detail in the Qur'aan where the Abyssinian army marched on to Mecca in order to destroy the idols. The year is around Circa 570 a.d., around the year the Prophet[saw] was born. The Qur'aan tells us the forces of the Yemeni ruler, who came on elephants were stopped in their tracks by an outcome of smallpox [ an interpretation by Imam Razi and Imam Zamakshari of the verse on 'tair' flying creatures Sura 105. ] If Mecca really was Petra, why did the Abyssinians not march towards Petra?

[@ddzl6209]

What's wrong with muslim scholars ,why they cannot come out openly with truth. Truth is the only solution for this confusion.

[@aslammohamed2749]

“Beliefs are the unquestioned acceptance of an idea in the absence of verification and reason. Beliefs are not facts; beliefs are the escape from facts. Beliefs are the food of a make-believe world. Permanent clarity is available to you, but not if you want to cling to your beliefs.” ~ Wu Hsin

[@audhildbenjaminsen665]

God is truth,I think Dan Gibson and this guy should sit together and show us viewers what is the truth!

[@peterbuckingham243]

Shabir speaks in a faltering voice suggesting that he has little confidence in what he's saying. I have never heard him sound so weak before. We know that David King's arguments have been now shot to pieces so I would assume that the two situations are related.

[@Jocky8807]

Yes. Very true. Very weak argument.

[@bondys-video-kucing]

Like in indonesia the direction of qibla is commonly known as west direction...which was traditionally believed and passed over generations to generations. When a (or some) scholars wanted to correct this to be more precise direction, to tilt a bit degree to some north direction, they find it's challenging to change the belief of the islamic society and had resistances, because of tradition. They believe of the same idea that the mecca/kaaba as qibla. Imagine the narrative back then 'guys, it's not petra anymore. It's now mecca'..probably it can be a serious blasphemy charge. I think dan gibson should change his point of view first before do the research. Imho islam as construction of belief is constructed bottom-up (from the ummah) and not top-bottom (from the regime to ummah) and dan gibson's theory somehow feels and sounds like the last one.. I always see the belief of islam as a quite solid of blockchain..and the 'Petra as qibla' idea as 1 proposed missing block doesnt fit in the whole chain, that its proof of work is not approved and can be easily rejected

[@vugbeshbara1103]

How jahil are you

[@HajjiJesus]

Very true. Chinese Gov is continually going to the extreme Authoritarian way to make its Muslim population accept communist rules by force, by extermination and they are not succeeding. How can somebody except they will make millions change their directions of prayer and they will not be challenged? At the time he is talking about, Muslims were in the millions, from North Africa to Central Asia. You must be nuts to bring this up and you must not have a good opinion of your reads if you think they will accept your made up theory.

[@lukeleney5917]

​@@vugbeshbara1103 Learn english LMAO

[@narendra62]

Mecca as understood by Muslim is a fabrication. No ancient well known place. The Zamzam well and its significance to the Muslims is well worth thinking logically about. Does it contain limitless water? Does it contain magical properties? Is it in the desert far away from Mecca? Or is just another well replenished by rainwater? We know how oil has transformed Saudi Arabia. Before the oil was discovered and exploited Arabia was an arid poor backwater place despite having this limitless miracle water. Stretches credibility does it not?

[@malusa9508]

The whole Islam has to be reviewed.

[@abdelvanhetnoorden8141]

Why was the black stone in Petra?. (10:25)

[@tahirahkamil2498]

The non believers will try so much to make the muslims go astray. We muslims only follow our Creator and messengers. We only have to follow the Quran and hadiths, so why bother or waste time to argue about someone who knows nothing.

[@marcelljosim3191]

LoL LoL LoL .........

[@AmericanShia786]

Excellent video. I have been watching your videos regularly for almost 6 months now. I converted to Islam as a 12er Shi'i Muslim in 1999, at age 39, after looking into Sunni and Shi'i schools of Islam for 4 years. The only Sunni Shaykh whose tapes or videos I watched regularly after that was Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. I saw you videos on KZbin, but for some reason I misjudged your school as Salafi. About a year ago, I caught one of your KZbin videos and realized I had made a big mistake. Your videos are excellent. I'm on disability, but, InshaAllah, if I can come up with a small monthly donation, I will do so. Salam Alaikum.

[@bittasi1139]

Assalom alaykum va rohmatulloh, from Uzbekistan

[@roxastidus4109]

I always admired the Courage for people converting to Islam, you seem to be an honest intelligent man who is not afraid of questioning your beliefs and judgment, and that's admirable. May God heal you.

[@arlypaulmigueldamuy5221]

Watch Jay Smith and Pfander Films' videos.

[@paghal11]

@@arlypaulmigueldamuy5221 Better yet, don't. They're tiresome and mendacious in the extreme.

[@cmsacademy1673]

@@arlypaulmigueldamuy5221I watch those videos and I find them laughable. As a former Christian with a degree in theology I find them to be clowns for lack of a more appropriate word

[@grubsgrubsgrubs6735]

Spoiler alert it's Petra

[@Bluebirdiran]

Yes but the initial gheblah was somewhere else but you did not mention it and did not discuss its bearing on the subject. Did you do this deliberately? Please explain.

[@omarmy3495]

The greater the absurdity the greater the interest the greater the monetary return via the publishing companies. Dan Gibson is a shrewd business man. Gibson does not even believe the Petra narrative. Cira International podcast and Sam Herron, a quranist, has jumped onto this Dan Gibson nonsense without verifiable facts and obviously to further their own monetary interest. I, personally won't even discuss these people or their books for fear of raising interest in others to possibly buy their books.

[@junaid2266]

Are the Cira people even Muslims. I've looked at their KZbin channel. They look like Christians pretending to be Muslim and some of their stuff indicates that too

[@omarmy3495]

@@junaid2266 Actually, the Arabic speaking Al Fadi (the host), is an ex muslim and Jay Smith are both fiercely anti Islam and anti prophet Muhammad (pbuh). They use their extensive Islamic knowledge of Quran and hadeeth to undermine Islam to such an extent that they show themselves to be completely deluded. It's quite hilarious at times and I'm not scoffing and I do apologize if I come across that way.

[@peterhwang1860]

Hajj...

[@Chandransingham]

Very useful qualitative commentary on Dan Gibson's labour of love work. Interesting to note a tolerance of 45 degrees. No explanation given about North -South parallel Qiblah lines in Africa. Theory/hypothesis on how the black stone moved from location to location within Arabia may need more elucidation. Wars between Muslims in Arabia - North and South, discovery of 'pre-Islamic Mosques' are interesting findings. One show referred to such a Mosque in Jerusalem itself. No comments given about directions towards to Jerusalem before Mecca. Also no comments given about other Kaaba's in Arabia before the Meccan Kaaba. Work in progress?

[@jester56]

Yes, even the Nabateans in Petra had a Kabba with a Black Stone in their recorded history. Are we dealing with the same Kabba and Black Stone ?? Another source of history ( jewish) Is the recording of Abraham in Petra during the times of the Nabateans, this could be the Kabba that discribed Abraham visited... This leaves 2 sources of evidence that shows us THE KABBA discribed in the quran. 1. Qibla direction ( must face THE KABBA " 2 Abraham at the Kabba ( Petra) as recorded by Jewish History. .

[@Chandransingham]

@@jester56 Thanks. Jerusalem/Jewish-Christian came before Mecca/Muslim/Shia/Sunni. 1st century and 7th century sites are there for study including Petra/Nabateans. Adam and Abraham in Mecca is a later tradition - See Lesley Hazleton's books 'The First Muslim' and 'After the Prophet". Quran is just one book but gives due credit to previous books - Bible Catholic 73 books or Protestant 66 books - 'Torah', 'Pslams' and 'Gospel'. The whole subject is complex. Surah 20/114 may give the lead: "My Lord! Increase me in knowledge".

[@Chandransingham]

@@talhazaheer1668 Interesting comments. Bit hard? You need to write to the author Dan Gibson about his book. Give him your detail observations with the evidence you have. It's normal to take Apologetic and Polemic positions on historical matters. Surah 20:114 : 'O my Lord! advance me In knowledge. God bless us in the learning & research programs on historical matters.

[@Chandransingham]

@@talhazaheer1668 Please yourself. End of story. All the best for 2022 Inshallah.

[@Chandransingham]

@Al Mudarabah Interesting responses but lacks depth. You need to read Sidney H Griffith's The Bible in Arabic - The Scriptures of the "People of the Book' in the Language of Islam (Princeton, 2013). see page 9 - extract : "..the Quran's Christians were in fact among the contemporary Melkites, Jacobites, and Nestorians, the dominant Christian congregations on the Arabian periphery and in Arabian proper..."

[@ibrahimahmed6619]

Facing Petra or Mecca is a later event. This does not affect the authenticity of the Holy Qur'an or the Prophethood of the Holy Prophet (SAW). At least there should be a time in history when Petra would have been mentioned, either in the Hadith or any Islamic history books. The whole story of Dan is therefore irrelevant. Qur'an is AUTHENTIC and the PROPHETHOOD of the HOLY PROPHET.

[@mirzafaisal2801]

Dr. Shabbir made a comment about Kerala and Islam coming to India through Muhammad bin Qasim. I request him to please recheck that Islam in Kerala is independent of rest of India and is claimed to have reached during Prophet's lifetime through sea trade route. Also check related claimed story out there of King Cheraman. Nothing to do with Petra claim but just humbly pointing this point.

[@dradedotuntpopoola9537]

Dr Ally overlooks 2 issues 1. All mosques facing Petra generally belong to a time period. All mosques facing 'in-between' belong to another. All mosques facing Jerusalem are in a time period. All mosques facing Mecca were generally after these preceding groups of mosques. Why was there such consistency? 2. Dr. King visited less than 5% of these mosques. His work was more of desk research. Give Gibson his credit.

[@Thesortvokter]

Hear hear!

[@abhmd4481]

The most delusional conspiracy theory lol

[@muntasifsusmit]

@Thunderous One Because muslims dont even pray towards makkah they pray toward that Black box shape masjid Kabah.Makkah is even mentioned in the Quran..His whole thesis is based on Makkah and black stone, one Fundamental fault in his thesis...lol... And u cant just took medieval architecture and its direction,, use modern direction techniques like satelite and gps to find a hidden conculasion...this called fallacy of presentism.. Most gothic french/european churches didnt face Jerusalem for the same reason...this is weak thesis no serious academic take it seriously...

[@foundthetruth2003]

@@muntasifsusmit watch Dan Gibson’s material and educate yourself out of Islam my friend.

[@muntasifsusmit]

@@foundthetruth2003 already watched that dumb video. lol.. Did u read Dr David A King's amazing paper on this subject, or any rebuttal videos??? Do u even know what real academics r saying about this?? sorry i am going to side with real academics, not puedo wannabes. may be u should read two sides like me. and take decision reasonably. its funny how more and more pagans like u suggest me to reject pure monotheism! and without any solid theological reasoning lmao

[@muntasifsusmit]

@@foundthetruth2003 also isn't this funny! because if we only take the modern alignment of medieval architectures as the only proof we need to make such decisions, so we can also take the medieval european architectures and other churches around the world and draw imaginary lines and make a conclusion that Jerusalem is not the sacred city!!! because they also don't align. so plz reject christianity. it ur own logical conclusion lol

[@foundthetruth2003]

@@muntasifsusmit yes I’ve watched rebuttals. The whole point is Mohamed couldn’t have been a prophet, not that I can see, he was a sinner; Christ is perfect.

[@jahidhasan3376]

Jazakallah

[@supercrusader1655]

a refutation of Gibson's specific assertions would help. ARE the early mosques pointing toward Petra or not???

[@Hamza00011]

Id be suprised if Gibson shows his face in public after this one

[@fidelcatsro6948]

Gibson left the chat in a hurry...

[@hekimaasilia6207]

Gibson did a many years field research on this subject. King did a desk research. Gibson would destroy Ally’s argument any day! 😎

[@abansalspslt3679]

Brother Shabir, the mosque in Kerala (Cheraman Juma Mosque) was built as a temple but the legend has that around 632 - 634 CE it was converted into a mosque. Islam came to Malabar coast of Kerala much before Muhammad bin Qasim came to Sindh. Reason: Arab traders had been coming to Malabar for trade before Jesus and Prophet Muhammad were born. Malabar had one of the oldest Jewish and Christian communities when Muslim traders came.

[@iradatazali]

Not many want to let Quran speaks by itself including Dr. Shabir: “Mecca” of quran was located somewhere on prosperous and fertile highland of arabia known as “Tuur (تور)”

[@Mahdi20832]

He claimed... Mohammed was born in Petra... how it is described, everything is same, river, mountain and fields, fruits trees... Mecca don't have such things as described in holy books...

[@justfun9971]

Go and see by yourself in mecca

[@justfun9971]

Brother go and see many documentary on this, yes most of the land in arab peninsula is desert but some place were very little bit of grass and little bit vegetation were present , quran is describing that, and mountain are still present in mecca, in fact the clock tower near mecca was was made by removing mountain and no where in quran talk about river in mecca..... All those weird atheist video are the result of your mind set.

[@Mahdi20832]

@@justfun9971 he is historian....spend whole life searching Arabic history.... they speak on evidence base... Soon more research will come in coming years... He never talk against religion...

[@justfun9971]

@@Mahdi20832 I have read dan gibson, yet his research need some solid evidence for his claim, otherwise his argument will consider a joke.

[@Khadmunet]

IT IS BAKKAH (Qur'an, 3:96) in PETRA

[@amonoid]

Can your videos be considered scholarly if I already know what you are going to say? Why talk only about Dan Gibson who is not a qualified person and ignore the actual historians like Patricia Crone, Tom Holland, Fred Donner?

[@amonoid]

@Siraj Haq The conjectures she abandoned were related to Hagarism and not the questions about Mecca. Tom Holland wrote a book on origins of Islam but didn't do any serious research? :) His arguments about the Kaba originally being in northern arabia are compelling.

[@skepticangel286]

Yes, Qibla's direction has many flaws in D.Gibson's theory. However, many other points such as; trade route of mecca, oasis, and mother of all cities etc. make more sense in his theory.

[@skepticangel286]

@Siraj Haq Yes, correct... I think untill and unless proper archeological research is not done in Makkah and surroundings then it would be really hard to validate or invalidate such kind of theories. I know there is a department of archeology in saudia and they are doing some archeological research BUT they need to do alot to validate their historical and quranic claims.

[@VegemyteSandwich]

Christians can't even decide between themselves on what entire *books* are canonical to their Biblical volumes, yet their apologists love to conspire theories about the Qur'an and about Mecca to give themselves more legitimacy. Why can't they fix their own faith before targeting ours with conspiratorial nonsense? Some Christian scholars are genuinely good people with real ideas to discuss and exchange. However, apologists like David Wood and the folks at CIRA International are absolute charlatans without a shred of real theological knowledge about Islam, the Qur'an, or the history of our faith.

[@rashidaquil5284]

These charlatans Christians know the history but deliberately misinforming the less read Just muddy the truth... This is desperation tactics when they can't debate based on scriptures

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

I always laugh at Jay Smith and Al Fadi claiming the mythical status of Muhammad while seeming oblivious to the rising popularity of Christian mythicism. I am not absolutely convinced about mythicism but the evidence for both positions is equally compelling.

[@peterhwang1860]

Who is the charlatan? Christians have been in complete agreement about the canon of scripture since the 4th century. Can all muslims agree on the hadith? No, because they were all composed centuries later.

[@mikanfrozen5522]

Petra at the time of early Islam is a part of Palaestina Salutaris province under Byzantine Empire. It's population are mostly Christians at the time. Three churches remains have been found in Petra. In one of them, an archive known as Petra papyri have been found in 1990s, provided us with information about life in both Petra and in its rural surroundings in 6th century. The documents is the archive of Theodoros family, who served as deacon at the Petra church family, concern private matters like marriages, inheritances and sales, as well as public legal matters, including property disputes and the evolution of systems of tax records through successive political regimes. Calling Petra as Masjid al Haram, the origins of Prophet Mohammad and the Quraish tribe doesn't make any sense in historical perspective.

[@ProLookout]

What about the description of Muhammad's birthplace argument he gives?

[@aftab705]

Cheraman Jummah masjid in Kerela is believed to have been build in 629 .c.e. Mohammad qasim came much later.

[@mikk3150]

First it was this absurd Allah is a moon God nonsense which was easily debunked, now its this Qibla was in petra. The absurdity of these missionaries never ceases.

[@doctorsnuggles3299]

They r so deperated 😁

[@sibtesajjad4437]

What do you mean by erroneous?

[@abdigah5364]

No . You say if the direction of prayers were changed from Petra people would have protested. But Mohamed changed from Jerusalem to Mecca and people did not demonstrate. It is logic that Petra was the place where they invented Islam

[@jefriabdullah9143]

They are people who are rejected that particular command. I guess you need to read more

[@NG-gb1ov]

No, there is Cheraman Juma Masjid in Kerala built during the time of the Prophet. You can see that if you research about the Moon Splitting Miracle. A Kerala king witnessed the moon being split, from Kerala. When Sahabas came to Kerala during the Prophet's time, they visited the king and got to talking.. the King set to Arabia and met the Prophet. Accepted Islam. He passed away on his way back, buried in Yemen. But his ministers established the first Masjid in Kerala. But it is not towards Petra.

[@m.b5777]

Fake story

[@sictransitgloriamundi8178]

Love you guys.

[@fidelcatsro6948]

my cat loves you too ♥️😺😺😺

[@agatasdaqhussain3950]

A footnote to the historical references to the times of Abdullah Ibn al Zubayr: Muaviya ib Abi Sufyan died in 680 AD. Abdullah Ibn Al Zubayr initiated his revolt during the caliphate of Yazid ibn Muaviya and the first confrontation between them was when the Ummayad army under their general Husayn ibn Numayr Al Sakuni besieged Kaaba (under the control of Ibn Zubayr then), bombarded it with catapults, and burned it. Yazid died in the midst of this campaign and Ibn Numayr returned to Damascus. Yazid was succeeded by his son Muaviya Ibn Yazid for 6 months and after his death the caliphate passed on to Marvan ibn al Hakam, effectively transitioning the caliphate from the Sufyanid branch of Ummmayads to the Marvanids. Ibn Al zubayr ruled Hijaz for almost 12 years and made changes (reversed by later caliphs) to the Kabba as referenced in this discussion. His final confrontation with Abdal Malik ibn Al Marwan ibn Al Hakam culminated in his defeat and death in 692 AD. In Islamic history, these events are referenced to be part of the Second Fitna.

[@gamermikail007]

Cheraman Juma Majsid were built in 629 AD by Malik Ibn Dinar in kerala... didn't know about the orientation though

[@GlobalSecularism]

If an imaginary line is drawn cutting Mecca and Petra going around the circumference of the Earth, then any mosque locating on this line will point towards both Mecca and Petra. So technically you can claim that the mosque is pointing to Petra.

[@ArtLogins]

Look at the map and see Uzbekistan mosque

[@jester56]

Of course King is upset... if only King went to the qibla's himself to study EACH one, rather than sit in his university room, he might have had a more accurate thesis. On the other hand Dan Gibson went to inspect each qibla PERSONALLY, there can measure the qibla himself to see whether the qibla direction is exactly what it says in the quran. King FAILED to do this !! The qibla faces Petra with the use of modern technology and of mathematics. King only took " word of mouth " and that is NOT a good way for reliable academic research.

[@ghst4487]

Dan Gibson is a lier after I saw how hard he's trying it's even proving islam is the one and only religion

[@lindazachri9969]

As Shabir Ally pointed out, Dan might have access to the latest in modern technology, but I'm pretty sure the people who built these mosques did not. If you apply precise, modern scientific methods for locating something when earlier peoples could only guess at the location, you are indulging in a thing called "presentism".

[@jeroenky6038]

12:14 what about the earthquake that destroyed petra?

[@alexferdinansyah757]

"4:00 Gibson’s scholarly competence (or lack thereof)" I like this part.

[@allenjoseph2160]

Dr. Ally, I have huge respect for you because you always seem to club academic excellence with practical spirituality, even while remaining true to the richness of Islamic tradition. But I was little confused about your comment about Islam in Kerala. Now this is contested, but the Kerala Muslims have a strong tradition of Islam being established even within the life time of the prophet. Thus, the Cheraman Perumal mosque is considered by the Muslims in Kerala as the first Mosque in the subcontinent. in any case it is clear that the islam found in Kerala, do not have historical connection with what we find in the other parts of the subcontinent. However, about the qibla of this mosque, i.e, The Cheraman Perumal Mosque, Dan Gibson is wrong presumably.

[@abhinag3710]

The qibla of cheruman mosque in thissur,kerala also points at petra.

[@ilmashallahaleemsyed1907]

@@abhinag3710 the mosques in Kerala we're not started 7 A.H. they were still clans at war with the Quraysh.

[@paghal11]

There were no mosques outside the Middle East and perhaps Abyssinia during the life time of the Prophet (pbuh)

[@Farandy]

Dan Gibson just tried to get money from his books, not worth the effort to make him question our akidah. The small dispute between who is the first caliph can lead to a war that still on going until right now after 1400 years. The changing of Qibla will become a HUGE thing if this does happen back then. Almost a century after the Prophet PBUH died, the number of Muslim will be huge. They will not easily submit on the changing of the Qibla in an instance. The Ummaiyah and Zübeyr both of them are Sunni. How in the world the Shia will follow Zübeyr if he did move the Qibla from Petra to Mecca. Think about this geopolitically. To think about non Muslim scholar wrote about this, is very absurd to taken into account. If it did happen, will the true modern Muslim scholars will catch up on this and makes it their thesis in numerous Muslim universities? Even only on the derivative usage of Ba in the start of Bismillah can get one scholar PhD title. If this nonsense did happen, won’t it get caught by them?

[@FawadBilgrami]

The funniest thing about changing the Qibla theory is that it went without notice. Throughout the history of Islam, people have challenged even small changes let alone the direction of Qibla. It's just a bogus theory to confuse the less fortunate who do not have the basic understanding of Islamic history. No offense but Dan Gibson is the Tiktoker of the history.

[@RoninBkt]

I think it doesn't matter the built year accuration. I focus on the mapping accuration. The facts that the first qiblat were pointed to Petra (thought to Yerussalem) are the fact. The question is why? Thats the base of Gibson exploration.

[@panduwilantara3070]

he...he...how they know direct to petra, is it that people have good navigation?

[@MHLitu]

Who Rebuild the AL AQSA mosque in Jerusalem during the years of 636 to 646?

[@besmirkocia1207]

And they say, "When we are bones and crumbled particles, will we [truly] be resurrected as a new creation?" Say, "Be you stones or iron. (17:49-50) Pyrite (or iron persulfide: FeS2), also known as "fool's gold," is a common mineral that is often found in sedimentary rock. In some fossil deposits pyrite gets incorporated into bone, invertebrate shell, and plant fossils during the process of fossilization.

[@rashidaquil5284]

I did read this iron and stones... Thanks for explanation

[@majeedm689]

What they should discuss is how Abraham's footsteps at the Kaaba has been preserved for 4000 years, when Meccans rejected Abraham to worship idols. Reject monotheism but preserve the footprint - doesn't make sense.

[@majeedm689]

@Sovereign OK They rejected Abrahamic teaching of god that doesn't require idols to introduce idols.

[@mosesmcghee3030]

@@majeedm689 It is the placing of intercessors between oneself and God that is the bases of idolatry. The station of Abraham is a movable stone (it once was lifted in a flood!) which was once just another object of intercession by the Quaraish before Muhammad (p.b.u.h.) restored it to its rightful place, which is to remind the believer that even the prophets prayed towards the Kabba, the first patch of land created by God on this earth

[@majeedm689]

@@sirajdnnasir53011. It's not mentioned anywhere so you're making it up. 2. If they preserved his footprint on the basis on idol worship and it's still there today then Muslim are engaged in pagan idol worship. 3. Why not preserve Ismails footprint since he had a greater impact on the inhabitants. Conclusion - the story of Abraham and Ismail in Arabia to build the kaaba is fabricated, so they put a fake footprint to "prove". All they needed was writings to prove it, but since he was wasn't there his writings didn't exist.

[@yasirmajeed7457]

@@majeedm689 you're not a muslim why making fake I'd you fool.....

[@majeedm689]

@@yasirmajeed7457 I'm a cultural Muslim/skeptic of Islam.

[@regal2311]

The cherraman jumma mosque is the oldest in india and why is that oriented towards Pertra? Explain

[@willyg8592]

Very disappointing response to the theory proposed by Dan Gibson amounting to an ad hominem attack rather than on analysis of the factual data put forth the veneration of the BlackRock by Muslims has always troubled me I believe it to be the equivalent of the Jewish worship of the golden calf and is in fact the reason the golden calf story is in the Quran

[@Qthetar]

@Zain Gardezi there is no proof because the real source would be in Saudi, and he doesn’t have access to to Medina and Mecca to see the old mosques of prophet Muhammad.

[@dawnndell251]

To me , I'm looking at it with an open mind. The fact being just before father Abraham died at the age of 175 , Abraham said to his son Isaac, go get your brother Ishmael . Now Abraham lived in Hebron so from Hebron to Mecca, (let's not forget we are talking over 3000 years ago) , even if you managed 20 mile a day you would be doing well. So if you said 800 miles there and 800 miles back , Abraham's body when he died would of been decomposing as we know how hot it gets in the middle east. That's why it makes much more sense that Ishmael lived in Petra and they got back in time to say goodbye to his father Abraham before he passed away. Then wash and balm his body and prepare it for burial and place him in his Tomb which is still there today in Hebron. I guess for some people though when they tell you something out of love , then you hate them for revealing the truth to you. Just like the true prophets of old. And does it really matter how many degrees your Qiblah is out of line , having a pure heart and praying sincerely is more important. And if you pray to Allah and ask him to reveal the truth by the Holy spirit , He will . For it is His delight for you to know the truth. So stop with all your hate . And that is what religion has done , its put a divider. Dont believe me, well go and look at some of the pictures of Abraham's tomb and then you will get exactly what I mean. And how do we know we ain't in error and Allah has sent this man to enlighten us . And you repay Dan Gibson with slander and hatred. Did you not know on judgement day that you will have to justify and give an account for all the harsh words you have spoken and with your words you will either be justified or by your very own words you will be condemned.

[@danteinferno8983]

we have to add 1.from 3000 years before Christ up to 100 years after Christ there was no nation in and around the Mecca in Arabia 2.The language of kuran origins is exactly from Jordan 3.allat , manat ,uzza origin are from jordan not south of Arabia 4.why hussein ibn ali left mecca in the year 61 , in 8th زی الحج and arrived Kufa in 1th Moharram within 24 days with big caravan , means 1800 kilometer diatance , impossiple at least it needs 40 daya, but thia timing fits petra to kufa

[@faisalghiar]

😂 you are so funny both of you may I give you are lollipop to shutup do you have so much hatred that you try to use false with faulty logic to break core essence of Islam and every Muslim. The thing is that you are kidding yourself get ready for the hell fire 😂

[@iamwatching742]

Why don’t you discuss directly with Dan Gibson and not with this lady. Her question seems to be prefixed for your pre structured reply. You can never reply the challenging questions from the historians and scholars. Dan has done an excellent work, please challenge him and take his counter question, to show your knowledge in Islam.

[@mohamudahmed6554]

Dan has been refuted by Muslims and non Muslims already, Shabir is simply addressing what is already addressed. Don't be biased. Dan didn't do a excellent work.

[@iamwatching742]

@@mohamudahmed6554 , I am only a spectator and enjoying the video, if you think Dan is wrong then he should be challenged face to face and not at his back in his absence, which Muslims call Gibat. I also learned that the anchor who is asking preset question is his daughter. So me getting biased is out of question as I am not Christian. Anyway let them remain in their world and my apologies for making my comment. There is no scholar in Islam till now who has debated openly and have won. There is no Manuscript of Caliphate Utman of 7th century who is said to have compiled the Quran (not a single copy is available in this world, but may be Muslims Allah is having that copy in 7th heaven). The Hafs Quran which you ready is compiled 200 years after the death of Prophet. Secondly the Quran African read is Warsh, so both are different and there are more then 31 different Quran available in the market. Saudi Prince is getting reforms done phase wise, first MBS has cancelled 95 % of Hadith and the second stage would be the surahs. Anyway continue with Islam.

[@edasy7200]

If you noticed, this series of videos are based on questions that viewers asked. So the answers are general depending on viewers. If he were to academically challenge it or refute it then it will take days/months of proper research and presentation of findings. And to make it into a video which everyone wants to see, it will take a long time to prepare that.

[@xavixnake]

Why don't a muslim actually debates Dan Gibson and destroy all his findings? It's shameful to watch people talking about others in videos about them instead actually debunking their arguments or proof.

[@colinpatterson728]

Exactly ! - This would be to the glory of Allah!

[@Hamann9631]

Shabir said there is no way a sacred site could be moved without some people holding on to the original site. If the site movers were willing to kill, they could eliminate the original sites fans, which would leave no evidence. If the relic was the reason the site was sacred, the site would move with the relic and without complaints. What if the black stone was the reason the original location was considered sacred? If it was then people wouldn't object to the site changing.

[@MohamedShou]

Let’s be honest only some Christian missionaries that attack Islam take Dan Gibson seriously

[@aldonemra2386]

I have watched Dan Gibson’s video, and he never mentions a mosque in India. Dan Gibson talks about the cave across the city, the place of masjid el haram marked by rocks, the green orchards and olive gardens that never existed in the arid desert climate of Mecca, but were mentioned in the Quran and some Hadith. The precision of gps technology that shows Early Mosque Kiblas pointing north towards Petra. The zimzim well place in the city. The fact that Quran barely mentions Mecca, and the old maps from 7th century didn’t even mark Mecca on their maps. Mecca was such a small and insignificant village in the Arabian desert far from the main commercial caravan route. These are all valid points, for the most perspicacious mind or less. You don’t have to have a phd to understand the significance of certain evidence. Why is it that archaeological excavations in Mecca provided us no trace of an old and enduring civilization in Mecca, if this place was a hub for Arab merchants?? By the way, this Dr. Shabir talks about Christianity all the time, and he is now telling us you have to have a narrow scope expertise in one area and not talk about anything else. Excuse me, so why do you dabble in the Bible and Christian gospels all the time? You have no expertise?? Anyhow, Quran was codified by Uthman and the Abbasids later on. Al Muawiya had minted coins with cross and his figure on them like the Byzantine emperors, so obviously earliest Muslims were very different than post Uthman codified Islam. It is good to immerse oneself in these matters to get to the bottom of it once and for all. I would watch Dan Gibson’s video here on KZbin and make your own mind. Asalamu aleykum.

[@j3ts287]

This has to be one of the most inaccurate and unfactual comments I’ve ever seen on KZbin. Congrats mate

[@aldonemra2386]

@@j3ts287 This is your conclusion, but you introduce no counter evidence to support your conclusion. Therefore your conclusion has no value. Zilch, nicht, nada, niente. Look up critical thinking, and learn how to develop premise-based arguments. Have a nice day!

[@esseandessence4421]

Some people try to discard the entire history,

[@robertcircleone]

I have watched all of Dan Gibson's videos and I can't fault his conclusions.

[@easyarabic543]

MashaAllah!! You are doing great job👍 May Allah S.W.T bless u always!!! بارك الله في حسن ايمانك و ثبات عقيدتك ويجعل ذلك في ميزان حسناتك امين يا رب العالمين!!!

[@ebenezerobez2771]

You have not answered the issues Dan raised. Gibson said that plants have never grown in Mecca, he visited the mosques and measured them. There are no cliffs in Mecca. The measurement of Kaaba in Petra tallies with the measurement in Hadiths. These are his evidence.

[@omega1maestro]

Plants have never grown in makkah? Are you sure about that? Seeing as the zamzam well is from the time of Abraham.

[@omega1maestro]

No cliffs in makkah? I wonder why I saw so many with my own eyes there

[@Glajdar]

Ebenezer....what have you been smoking? Plants have grown in Mecca since a long time. Have you been to Mecca? Obviously not!

[@arasen6843]

BROOOO...The Quran never describes Makkah as having plants.The Quran in chapter 14 Verse 37 mentioned Makkah as a barren/infertile valley.

[@ebenezerobez2771]

@@arasen6843 . Koran said you should not cut the trees in Mecca.

[@trevinowens70]

There is no ancient maps for Mecca until after 800 AD Mecca did not exist

[@roxastidus4109]

Did Gibson explains where Madina is supposed to be? or claims they moved it with them too...

[@kevinblow3797]

Its a pity you chose ad hominem and condescension, taking a similar approach to Dr King, in respect of Dan Gibsons views on the direction of the Qibla. Are we to believe that only those with academic qualifications can be taken seriously, but only if they agree with you. Unfortunately, for supposed academics your response is less that academic. Dan Gibson has pointed out that up until the 8th century AD no Quibla faced Mecca. He found that Quiblas could be grouped into facing (i) Petra; (ii) inbetween i.e. pointing inbetween Petra and Mecca; (iii) Parallel with Petra and (iv) Mecca. This video does not really address this fact. As you rightly point out, Dan Gibson with his 'Petra Fallacy', which would be described as scathing, which could easily be viewed as Dan Gibson having 'hit a nerve'. However, what you fail to mention (which is a glaring omission/error), is what Dr King had to say on the matter and Dan Gibsons response. Dan Gibson addreses the 7 theories (with KZbin videos), that Dr King puts forward for why the Qiblas do not face Mecca. Dan Gibson in my opinion easily rebuts Dr King.. Its also interesting that no evidence is provided to demonstrate that the methods of navigation etc were not up to the task, yet modern technology seems to show that they did a pretty good job of getting their directions right You refer to a response by Michael Lecker, which I have found and read. However, this a review of Qur'anic Geography from 2014 and reached the following conclusion regarding Qibla direction, . 'Admittedly the question of qibla is a thorny one and solid research will probably lead to new results. (One has to bear in mind that in most cases a qibla directed to Petra is also one directed to Jerusalem). But research will have to be based on the wealth of evidence found in the primary sources that are now more accessible than ever before. This book’s imaginative writing may have its followers, perhaps even in academic circles. But the study of early Islamic history is better served by small steps, one at a time.' It is critical of Qur'anic Geography, that much is obvious. Whether it is scathing as you suggest, I will leave others to reach their own conclusion. However, I cannot find a response by Michael Lecker to Dan Gibson on his book about Qibla direction. The text of the intro on this page seems to suggest that Michael Lecker has been scathing about the book and what it contains. Clearly, this appears not to be the case, unless you can point me to a review/article he has written. If there isn't one, may I suggest you clarify this point, so that it does not appear that the facts are being deliberately misrepresented. I assume that you have read the book on the Quibla by Dan Gibson and are fully 'au fait' with its findings, having analysed/evaluated the data presented? It seems for this video you have taken a rather popularist approach. If you are going to refer to your academic qualifications, at least have the decency to apply said academic rigor to the evaluation of Dan Gibsons data and his conclusion.

[@bazfazal9929]

Well put Kev. Just to add, the problems muslims have today is that they place the majority of their belief system on "Chains of narrations" which are "authentic" in their views (Sunnis) but actually they're not even .00000001% divine at the very least! Then they proclaim to be referring to these very same chains of narrations as being holy.....absolutely absurd. Subsequently, using these to deflect REAL work carried out by DAN, who for the record is not muslim! Personally, after my studies of history and this area in particular one will find Dan's work is definitely worthy of much credit. At least Dan did his own research rather than simply quoting someone else to refute his work. Sadly, we live amongst a world of muslim bias, something which can only be overcome if they take a real leap of faith and go back to their DIVINE BOOK, study more facts for themselves and critical thinking. The Quran itself invites one to be a critical thinker, not blind faith!

[@robindecker3946]

- There is an Elephant in the room - We do not know who put him there - So let's just ignore him ! ;)

[@robindecker3946]

Only difference... the Kotel is not aligned with Addis Abeba. Respect would also have been to look at the facts... Google earth will do the job just fine. So...respect to you and Ibn Rushd... "Truth cannot contradict the Truth". ;)

[@youngwolf869]

@@robindecker3946 the original Jerusalem was in irak.

[@almudarabah6876]

Thanks

[@dennythedavinchi3832]

I think they talk more about the Qibla. That's good but what about those primary descriptions from the 8th-century historical text? Some say they are unreliable but I do not see what evidence they think those sources are unrelaible.

[@sleimbh]

Majority have not watched the Dan Gibson research or work or even read his book! This is not a Debunk! Dan Gibson backed his theory with an archeological evidences, Have not seen a serious debunk ! Petra still valid.

[@colinpatterson728]

How can you expect Mohammadans to even approach the IDEA of a serious debunk ? They are incapable of such things!

[@NurAlaaNur]

14. Surat Abrahim Verse 38 Allah sxwtc has said in the Quran. Our Lord, I have established some of my offspring in an uncultivated valley, close to Your Sacred House, Lord, so that they may keep up the prayer. Make people’s hearts turn to them, and provide them with produce, so that they may be thankful. Dan Gibson he's neither historian nor well respected Islamic religion scholar (Muslim or Non-Muslim). What he narrated about old Qibla being in Petra not Mecca is totally fabrication & misleading not ONLY Muslims but all mankind. Prophet Abraham said to his Lord above narrated Verse, Whlist this loner Mr. Gibson is telling us ; The Kaba suppose to be lush, greenish & water everywhere without prove reference other than weak hadith whlist he's disregarding the Koran for his convenience... this is deliberate attempt of rewriting Islamic History & he failed miserable. Don Gibson was unqualified spotlight seeker & he got one since he's debating people like Dr. King & other great Islamic Scholars.

[@thomasaustin6575]

What does it say in Quran

[@laylaali5977]

Interesting

[@supersmart671]

Shabir is trying to evade it....Sorry, still many will continue to live in darkness.... Shabir has to refute each point Dan is making, and not just sweep it away as a popular theory. Dan is making a point that the geographical flora mentioned in the Koran does not tie in with actual reality. The point of Safa and Marwa is also valid. It's not just about the Qibla's direction.

[@colinpatterson728]

Yes exactly - It clear Ali is concerned otherwise why make the video - He should actually itemise Gibson's claims and refute each one - Simple. I predict that no Mohammadan will ever do that ! - Its too dangerous - Islam will collapse! He should give up the imitation of Western Academic Standards - Even if his shadowing of it impressed ignorant Mohammadans- Give it up Shabir!

[@colinpatterson728]

@Mohan Prince And you are an unlearned bafoon ! - Your turn!

[@edasy7200]

@@colinpatterson728 1) He already said that one should focus on their scholarly field. Perhaps Dr Shabir PHD study in on something else. David King, the actual expert, already academically refuted his claims. It is not his job to do it. 2) While his theory is popular, it holds no ground in the academic world. If you think popularity is more important than actual knowledge and study, then I guess no point arguing further.

[@colinpatterson728]

@@edasy7200 ----Ahh yes - Civility is a good thing. 1. ON WHAT the JOB IS - Well perhaps the job is just to waves vaguries about - Perhaps. 2. On Popularity - Its quite unclear to me where reference to 'POPULARILTY' was made.

[@Qthetar]

You guys are dumb if you think it’s believable

[@ibrahimassani6123]

thank you dear brother, you've cleared my doubts. may Allah reward you.

[@valentino3228]

Has not clarified all the arguments that Gibson showed in his documentary, there are many things that he does not adress, now I understand why Islamic Schoolar Yasi Qadhi says that the standard Islamic Narrative has holes in it.

[@bigben3019]

If anything Gibson’s theory proves the prophet was from petra and that the qibla is Jerusalem. Those early mosques seem to be pointing at Jerusalem instead and Dan mistook it for petra

[@hekimaasilia6207]

Gibson = many years field research King = desk research Question: Not Who do you believe in but who is more credible???