Return to the Circle [party comments] | Dragon Age: Origins

[@RATHORAGE]

I like how Morrigan gets pissy with me when I suggest there are worse things than death, and then says being a circle mage would drive her to suicide.

[@Owliare]

She’s weird. Pretty but weird.

[@niamhcorrigan3972]

I love how Morrigan pretends that most of the mages in the Circle had a choice when they were dragged away by templars as a child. Or that when faced with stoning or starvation, she wouldn't consider the Circle preferable in the mind of a child. Or that there have been any mages in the Circle who've committed suicide for the very reason she says she would be driven to it. She has this same attitude towards the Casteless and it drives me insane how she holds them accountable for something they had no control over; all I can hear when she says shit like that is her mother and, were it an option, it would be perfectly in-character for my warden to deck her right then and there. My main issue is that we never actually have a conversation where each party considers what the other says, like we can with Leliana if we play an elf; she shuts you down and disapproves if you try to explain your perspective and it's never spoken of after that.

[@MURPHYCHACHO]

Considering how Morrigan has had little experience in the real world with other people and lived in the wilds, I guess it kind of makes sense that she's developed a kind of 'law of the jungle' outlook on things. I can't imagine Flemeth encouraged much empathy in her while she was growing up either. Considering how she softens up if you befriend or romance her and how she seems kinder in Inquisition, I'm guessing she grows out of it over time and after seeing more of the world. In short, Origins is set during Morrigan's edgy teen years.

[@fawnieee]

I've always thought it was less to do with the decisions of a child and more to do with the rebellion of adults. She bitches at Wynne and the other mages for not trying to escape (and I do not recall her disregarding the unreasonable decision of Uldred and the other blood mages) and seeking their freedom. She believes they are capable (unlike children) of seeing their gilded cage and should want nothing more than to break free of it. She's completely apathetic toward the mages plight and their imprisonment by the chantry unless they're actively trying to live like her. This is especially made clear if you play as a circle mage and inquire about her life. I've only ever felt pity for Morrigan because of this, yeah, she annoys me at times with her unnecessary evil but she really doesn't know any better thanks to Flemeth. This belief of mine is only cemented more when she insists to the Inquisitor that "no child of hers shall be raised in a swamp and devoid of human contact" (paraphrasing). She's a product of her environment and that does not change unless the warden intervenes somehow. It's really, really pitiful.

[@NovaHessia]

But in her mind, they all do have a choice. As she has said - they could have flung themselves from the top of the tower. Going on living is always a choice. It's of course a cold-hearted view, but it isn't illogical or inconsistent.

[@dorguinas]

you missed the point entirely.. they DO have control over... they can go to the circle, but from her perspective, once they learn how to be proper mages, they should rebel.. they HAVE the power to do so... if the mages wanted, they could wipe out the templars... Their leash is mostly psychological. as for the castless.. same thing.. they dont realy rebel against the nobles.. they usually create minor rebelions, get 1 or 2 things they demanded, and thats it.. everything goes back to normal. That is ture for most of them

[@derokdeathaxe6984]

Meanwhile, Wynne's mentality is: I got raped by a templar(Gregor at the beginning of this same video!), gave birth to a son that i'll only met during the last years of my life and even hoped that he should have died of starvation while he was chained in a dungeon for having different ideas about how mages should live and i still believe that all the mages MUST be enslaved by the chantry because we're way too dangerous (for more details check Asunder or this link: dalishious.tumblr.com/post/151951485167/rhys-shutting-wynne-down-is-my-fave or this one straight from Awakening: dalishious.tumblr.com/post/165549842292/sit-the-fuck-down-and-shut-the-fuck-up-wynne-and ) Meanwhile during Dragon Age 2: Meredith, Cullen, and other extremist templars wanted to made tranquil every mage even the ones who passed the harrowing(which is against the Chantry's law), some nameless templar raped some mages and then made them tranquil just to avoid consequences, Cullen saying "Mages are not people like you and me" to Hawk(who can be a mage)(basically applying a form of dehumanization)(which it's exactly what happened with the Jews during WW2), also Meredith and Aveline dropping the fault of the death of Leanna on Hawke(her son/daughter) who actually managed to find the blood-mage who was murdering people and basically did the job that a city-guard and a templar should have done a long before the only half-decent templar exposed the clues that a blood-mage is kidnapping and killing people. Me: Yeah Wynne...maybe you should take a breathe because even if the abuse never happened to you(BUT IT DID HAPPEN SHE GOT RAPED AND IMPREGNATED BY THE KNIGHT-COMMANDER GREGOR! IN THAT SAME CIRCLE OF MAGI!) it doesn't mean it never happened to someone else... Morrigan may be too harsh on the mages of Kinloch but i don't think she is wrong...also in the prologue of Mage-Warden a random NPC(a templar) says "the only way out it's through a window of the higher floor"(implying that the only way out is Suicide)

[@AngryIrishBenjamin]

I've just realised... Cullen looks awfully like Alistair. Could it be that Cullen is meant as a demonstration of what Alistair could have been if he stayed in the order?

[@derokdeathaxe6984]

i mean...isn't that obvious?

[@wuftchan8299]

no duh XD

[@afgusti4269]

I don't think so, Alistair has showed fascination for arcane things and was forced to joint the Templars, he did not enjoy those duties, nor want that life. He does not really trust the Chantry and didn't even had friends in the Templar order. Cullen on the other hand, believe in the Chantry and trusted it fiercely. He joined the order willingly and would have been satisfied with his duties.

[@afgusti4269]

@@derokdeathaxe6984 nope

[@orangelinedevil2]

Lol NO. They only had very limited hair options.

[@lycan-zp9xf]

I ended up killing the Circle on accident once... Damn you, Fireball.... :(

[@Thagomizer]

Same here. My PC (a wizard from the Circle) felt unspeakably depressed, though his love interest thought that what transpired was awesome. It even raised her approval high enough that she invited him to sleep with her back at camp.

[@biostar4]

It happens. I wanted to save them, but I had no idea I had to use the damn scroll of mind protection (or whatnot). It happens. Though I lost some of Alistair's approval because of that

[@aaron75fy]

@@biostar4 uh...you're told to use it, Wynne directly said it and if she's conscious when Mr Corrupt does his accept the gift nonsense she yells at you to use it. it's not so much as no idea as it is no sense

[@biostar4]

@@aaron75fy Well, she did not yell at me. But maybe the sound was down or I don't know... I did feel stupid afterwards. I didn't say its the game's fault, it's mine I admit, I know I was instructed, but it... yeah just didn't work. Next time I guess. But the the Templars was a good help against the generals in Denerim, so that's cool.

[@t.abellard6280]

I uh.....I sorta forgot about the Litaney on my first attempt.....

[@dubbzy92]

Anyone else thinking Uldred is actually the Pride demon from the Warden's harrowing?

[@garycannon4644]

i think the pride demon that posessed uldred did it forcefully. if it was the same demon why wouldnt he just posses the main character?

[@dubbzy92]

@@garycannon4644 probably because the Warden was stronger. They saw through the mouse's ruse and resisted

[@Sifya]

I like think mouse wasn't a pride demon but wisdom spirit who happer that way because warden thought it was a demon. Mouse have never tried to possess you really, he could took you by force but they didn't

[@Lelouchxzero1]

This thought.. We...place our Templars...under your control...Mage. The knight commander saying this would be oh so good.

[@finalbossmichael]

I got Wynne killed by accident the first time--she was quick to realize Morrigan was an apostate. Reloaded and took Morrigan out of the party, then added her back once I had Wynne.

[@wolfancap6897]

"Appearently you can get your desire and still suffer horribly, truly a leasson for all who consider marriage" This is why i love Morrigan

[@MaximumFan136]

Just have to say, your character is gorgeous.

[@NekoSoren]

I really love the thought of all the party being there XD, it's amazing x3...if only bioware would let us take them all or at least have them all participate in the talking uwu

[@Robert399]

I don't think a bigger party could navigate a doorway with Bioware's atrocious pathfinding. Remember Baldur's Gate?

[@SuperKratosgamer]

@@Robert399 they could have been there just in the cutscenes, your party could still have only 4 people, there is a mod for that.

[@Robert399]

@@SuperKratosgamer I agree. I'm not sure why I said what I said; I was probably joking. I'm sure in reality they decided 4 was the optimal number of characters' abilities to micro. Also, it makes party building a strategic decision. Even with 5, that's enough to have 2 frontliners, 1 archer to pick locks _and_ 2 mages, so every party would be the same. 4 makes you prioritise. Also, perhaps they wanted you to be able to leave characters who disapprove of what you're going to do behind, though there's no way to know whether party limits or the approval system came first.

[@tylerwade3498]

Never used orghen for this but he said "this one has a good head on her i say we keep her" thats precious xD

[@svetlanamalavina4350]

Thank you I always wanted Oghren comment in this situation!!!

[@Hillthugsta]

Uldred is Sun Li the Glorious Strategist!! I just noticed that.

[@jokerhalo1]

Is that templar who was under the control of the demon going super sayain? Is that why he is vibrating so much?

[@cairrean2412]

"Tempting me with the one thing I always wanted but could never have..." Me: But your character's a guy...

[@gaaraofthefunk7163]

Seriously! I was just about say.. I think this is the backlash of having a mod? that allows all your companions to part-take in your aventure all at the same time.

[@cairrean2412]

I know there's a bi Cullen mod for DAI, maybe someone made one for DAO?

[@gaaraofthefunk7163]

._. I find that horrible, in the way that people can't seem to accept him as he is. Maybe they did too, in Origins...but if so.. the least this person could do is make Dorian straight -.-

[@cairrean2412]

Dorian being straight is just too weird. He's supposed to be the sassy gay best friend for a girl Inquisitor.

[@gaaraofthefunk7163]

That's my point. They all have a role and should be as they are. I highly disapprove of it, because after having played DAI (specially), you would think people would have listen to Dorian's story. While is not real life, it just goes to show some people are never satisfy and can't leave well alone on their own. I'm sorry, is just.. really disappointing. *sigh* ...

[@budakbaongsiah]

I've just realized that Uldred here is just a discount Palpatine. Just listen to that voice.

[@GabbyPlaysGames02]

Uldred’s VA doesn’t get nearly enough credit for this role. Really nails the whole egotistical maniac thing

[@Hillthugsta]

You should hear him in Jade Empire

[@valder8423]

@@Hillthugsta And in New Vegas Dead Money.

[@Havenscythe]

I really wish there was an option to side with the abominations and demons. Darkspawn wouldn’t stand a chance.

[@budakbaongsiah]

Gah, the argument of that Desire Demon could be easily broken by asking "where is is children". The Demon did manipulate him by making something up. It is a lie. If she truly want him to be happy, she would flee the tower and took him to somewhere secluded to live together. As hard as that life would be, it would actually be true and not a fabrication.

[@ZippyMrMew]

budakbaong siah she actually says that’s exactly what she intends to try, providing you let her live. Making the situation all the more grey and awesome lol

[@dorguinas]

you're missing the point lol

[@vVRichardVv]

5:10 yes Morrigan... it's called empathy

[@MisterSmith00]

Huh, interesting. Morrigan actually seemed to show a shred of decency to the mages on that second comment of hers. I wonder, does her approval of you affect that response?

[@Sifya]

Yes, if you get close to her, you let her notice she is not different from a mage ci le because flemeth trapped and define her in her idea of mage

[@spider6025]

I always used to kill the desire demons relationship but then last night I decided to chat with it and then I let them have their relationship because of what she said 🥺 Wait did I just.. omg I actually got tricked by a demon SIIIGHHHH

[@brandonlouieisla4117]

just like you i killed the desire demon and looted the templar's body. found out that the templar wasn't doing well in his job.

[@johnrichards3394]

Best game I can remember.

[@AngryIrishBenjamin]

Hard guy to please, and an even harder guy to be pleased with.

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

Awesome selection of mods! :D Morrigan best lines,

[@natikfire]

All party members with you? that's not op or anything lol.

[@thy_struggling_onyx9293]

It's possible lol

[@Thagomizer]

I'm actually really annoyed that you can't bring with, say 5 people like you can in Baldur's Gate, especially when the situation would call for it, like in Orzamar.

[@Vivi100]

What is that awesome party mod you have that lets all of them come along?

[@natikfire]

Ultriges demon army vs Corys demon army should so be a dlc lol

[@killershot699]

what is face morph mod for morrigan it's beautiful

[@PimsriYotube]

Morrigan... what the fuck

[@Lumberjane37]

@0:38 I do quite dislike how he’s blaming my mage for Jowan, when she was acting on the orders of the First Enchanter to expose this suspected blood mage.

[@mezuki64]

Morrgan does have a good point

[@DarkKing009]

no she does not. Morrgan is being stupid evil

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

no, Morrigan is simply someone who embraces survival of the fittest.

[@snappycenter7863]

She'll embrace survival of the fittest... until she's the one disadvantaged by it, I guess.

[@kidoftheforce]

I would not call it that. It's difficult to explain, but to me there is more to it than this.

[@Thagomizer]

It's a B.S. philosophy. Truth, Justice, Empathy, and Atruism all have practical uses.

[@er2206]

You have alot more dialogue than me on the pc version

[@autumnpeirson6976]

Your warden is very handsome.Love your armor

[@autumnpeirson6976]

By the way, hod did you get it so you could take all your party members?

[@xpandorasboxx]

Sten looks like Santa with the beard xD What mod is it that lets you use your entire party?

[@ffann100]

There's no such mod. I think it's console

[@haphazardlark1502]

The difference in voice acting direction between origins and inquisition really shines in the evil mage monologue, but this cheesy-ass tone worked really well with the way the people looked, and the fact that you weren’t voice acted. More realistic voice acting with these visuals would have been... something, but not as entertaining as the mismatch of this voice acting with inquisition. You’d be able to pick out surprise villains in that in five seconds oh god I need this absurdly high budget mod now how do I find the funds to get the original inquisition VOs to ham it up like this

[@EmporerAaron]

Where the heck did you get that awesome looking armor?

[@kurtcobane1762]

mod

[@skayerjohnii9800]

I almost never see these dialogues becuase i most play my game solo!

[@tylerwade3498]

Morrigan calls them pathetic excuses for mages but idk wynne probably could take morrigan but then again the warden got lucky with both or them on his side 2 of the post powerful mages we've seen in the da universe

[@Xxandrew01]

Nah. Morrigan Would mop the floor with Wynne. Yeah Wynne is more experienced than Morrigan but she's mainly a healer mage. She barely knows any good offense spells compared to Morrigan.

[@joshuagross3151]

​@@Xxandrew01 Until you pair her Spirit Healer class with Arcane Warrior. After that, she's a wrecking ball.

[@hds3018]

What graphics mods are you usiing? Wynne looks hot as fuck. lol

[@DarkKing009]

Morrgan is being stupid evil The textbook video game example is Morrigan, from Dragon Age: Origins. She's supposed to come off as merely practical and ruthless - but given that she actively suggests you screw over other people whom you need to defeat the Blight, encourages betrayal and being a prick to people whose aid you need, and in general, just being a snarky asshole, she comes off as Stupid Evil. Most telling is her support for the option to invoke the Right of Annulment on the tower mages despite she herself being a mage who hates templars; she justifies it with some Social Darwinist cod philosophy, but she really just seems to enjoy whichever course of action results in the most people being killed.

[@AbyssalZones]

What causes the difference in Morrigan's dialouge?

[@lancemartinez1130]

How do you get Morrigan to not disapprove of helping the tower? Wtf

[@LuisNunesNEO]

cool armors is this a mod?

[@Hyperion_Driver]

Yes

[@dariomusolino5093]

How to have all the followers ? O.O what mod is that ?

[@StefanSilver11]

is your armor a mod ?>

[@piret123698745]

Lol, I destroyed the circle as a mage

[@zlypy]

Is Cullen bi in origins or is this a mod?

[@viniciusyugulis7278]

Morrigan is right tho

[@rogernorris9543]

Ever wonder why there are no desire demons in DAI. You can thank the SJW's for that

[@Erfan-x8p3c]

@Marta As you notice the desire demons are very over sexualization. Bioware probably didn't include them because there would have been a backlash on something with gender politics involved in it hence the feminist part. He is almost correct but not quite. There is one desire demon in DAI but it's male and is not over sexualized. His name is Imshael or as he likes to call himself choice spirit.

[@heartlacies]

Really? Most SJW that I know from my days on Tumblr really liked the Desire Demons..

[@Erfan-x8p3c]

@@heartlacies that may be, but look at the cyberpunk backlash. SJW were pissed about the two gender options, and before that because of the transgender poster. Bioware took away sandel because they thought people were making fun of him despite the fact that the community loved him. It's just a risk bioware wasn't willing to take. If you want to read up more, there was a sense where you go to fate for getting the templars to join you. In the fate, the demon change to leliana and you could have had sex with her. They removed it because they thought it was too rapey and female player got uncomfortable when playing that scene. It stands to reason in a game mostly about demons, lack of a desire demon is because of SJW and how it would make female player uncomfortable since they have made decision based on this reasoning.

[@heartlacies]

@@Erfan-x8p3c Interesting, I didn't know that. It's a shame. I guess I'm one of the rare female players that actually enjoys all of the older Bioware content.

[@Emma-gm9rz]

Erfan Hello there! I’m trying to find articles to actually read up on what you’re going on about, “SJWs” and all that. In terms of Cyberpunk 2077 (which is what I’m assuming you’re talking about first), I’ve looked and found no “SJW” backlash against the gender customization? As for the Transgender picture, whatever backlash Cyberpunk received for that clearly hasn’t lasted, especially since that poster is supposed to show how people’s bodies can be used against them commercially (which makes sense given that Mega Corps sorta rule everything in the game). As for Sandal, Bodahn (who Sandal travels with in both DAO and DA2) is mentioned by Varric and Bianca to be in Neverra, and in the Trespasser DLC you can find Sandal’s Diary in the crossroads - so it appears his absence is more of a story telling thing rather than BioWare removing him at the request of fans. Idk where you got the “SJWs removed Sandal” thing from. I couldn’t really understand what you were saying after that. I tried to find an article or anything about a removed sex scene with Leliana, but I couldn’t find anything. Some sources would be nice? For any of these things, really. Or how they would relate to the lack of Desire Demons in DAI. I’m sure everyone would be happy to see more of those!