The Tragic Demise of Plants vs. Zombies

[@Danerade]

I am really open to any feedback or your thoughts. I know I said some "spicy" things, but I'm curious to hearing all your guys' opinions/thoughts! Especially in regard to you content creators (some of which I called out sorry lol) and how you feel about my assessment of the PvZ franchise? Thanks! MODS CLARIFICATION: Hey! So, it’s disappointed me to see a huge misconception regarding my stance on mods. I have absolutely nothing against mods, including the current popular mods. The wording was poor, and I own up to that. At 37:27 I acknowledge Reflourished and how it’s picking up and building off of PvZ 2, yet do not want to comment further because after my bad experience with ECLISE, I would prefer to steer away from mods. My message came off as an attack on the mods themselves which was not the goal. I hope this clarification takes away some of the ambiguity.

[@JoseViktor4099]

Mods man. PvZ2 and PvZ1 mods are extremely worth to give them a try. The art, the music, the level design, the mechanics advanced a lot since your Eclise video(and they take an insane amount of effort as well) Hell, Reflourished introduced a PvZ2 chinese world that is even better that the original!! Altverz is a great mix between PvZ1 and PvZ2 Even mods with some quirks like Requiem are extremely worth. Give them some Justice man. Edit: Btw, none of Altverz nor Reflourished developers had any past relevant controversies, the biggest thing apparently was a past rumor about them on Discord. Edit 2: If thats poor wording, I take it then. But it really was baffling to hear that, even if that was not your intention whatsoever, PvZ modding is a big reason of why people are still invested on PvZ as a franchise, and those words were pretty misleading for new fans and old fans as well. Yet, I accept the apologize, great video otherwise.

[@benjrobe]

@@JoseViktor4099 👍👍👍👍👍👍🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯✅✅✅✅✅

[@thepinksheep5419]

Id really like (as a comment above stated) if you gave mods a bit more respect, as some of them are really good and worth peoples time

[@9w8suxjehsoxjznw]

Yeah you did mods dirty and then you bring up TBOI. For those not aware, Repentance is based off a mod, Antibirth. A mod so good that it gets put in to the game because AB+ only got good with the boosts.

[@Shyguymask]

I'm surprised at how my opinion on on both PvZ1 and PvZ2 are mostly very similar to yours! You were very elaborated and coherent at explaining the games' mechanics as well as your opinions accompanying them. Issues like bloated out & padded out level count, particularly bad balance and some plants being locked behind paywalls are why I dislike PvZ2.

[@ivoryhammitt8885]

For the "why did they cling so hard to 3d animations when they didn't look good?" There is an answer: 2d animators have a union. 3d animators do not. This is also why animated movies are in 3d even when they try really hard to make it look 2d

[@skippychan1904]

I completely forgot about that! Great info, if it’s correct. Thanks.

[@kyona5422]

got it, wait for a 2d animation strike if I want to hire 2d animators. "scabs" make the best contractors. mostly because they're not stupid enough to side with the artificial labor monopoly.

[@nottcurious5284]

honest question: why is there a distinction between 2d and 3d animators? Can't the 2D animator union just kinda "expand" to include 3d animation?

[@manufaas2815]

Basketball players cant expand to also do american football on nearly the same level.​@nottcurious5284

[@manufaas2815]

​@@kyona5422unions have been around f9r over a century and pretty universally recognised as good lmao.

[@Cloudy_Jones]

The fact they turned a tower defense game into an amazing 3rd person shooter is a feat in itself, Garden Warfare was some of the most fun I’ve had with my younger brother and sister, I miss that game so much.

[@UncleDonkey99]

I bought 3 copies of garden warfare to play co-op with my sons... They didn't care for it but I got so addicted to multiplayer! I'd never played multiplayer games before because I suck but got pretty damn good at GW.

[@tararosabelle7368]

I remember when it was a thing- I never got the chance to play it back then, but I wanted to SO bad :,)

[@toooydoeur]

It's pretty medicore

[@moogandacasio]

Oh man, is it seriously gone? Feels like just yesterday I was staying up till 2am defending that rooftop garden from shitty AI zombies with classmates 🥲

[@aeea3306]

​@@toooydoeurmedicore?

[@godrusemary]

Reaching out to 4 of the developers to gather first-hand accounts of their experience is a level of journalistic integrity you don't really see much on youtube. Good video man

[@maverick9708]

You don't even see it in the real news either.

[@BahhBahhBrownSheep]

I see that kind of effort on KZbin all the time haha, it’s in actually important matters and sources like the more popular news outlets that I don’t see it very often

[@CykoCI]

That is the journalist dedication we need

[@grumgal]

ouch ouch ouch

[@CykoCI]

@@grumgal eurgh

[@Namadu7]

Fun fact: in the first PvZ, to get the sound effect of butter hitting a zombie's head, Laura Shigihara threw butter at George Fan. (With permission, of course.) I bet nobody at Popcap gets butter thrown at them nowadays...

[@tpfoxCastro]

Those people were at the same mental state as the TF2 team LOL. I love them

[@UrAvgDMG]

@@tpfoxCastroi think it is actually only the va’s, i think the janitor at valve is working on deadlock

[@not_a_cheter]

nobody knows the deep meaning of "I bet nobody at Popcap gets butter thrown at them nowadays..." except me

[@elianhg2144]

can i get a source? cuz that sounds as fake as it gets

[@Namadu7]

@@elianhg2144 Sure! This is on her channel - it's a clip from a stream where she told the story, though I know it's not the first time she's told it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5qUlmN8ir6Iobs

[@FryEmUp]

PvZ Heroes could have been a success for EA if they had been more in-touch with the community. The Hearthstone team, from its early days, hosted tournaments, supported streamers, and had constant communication with its community. This resulted in Twitch and KZbin creators advertising and hyping up the game for them, at virtually no cost. The exact opposite is true with PvZ Heroes. I've been streaming the game full time for 7 years, and have gotten virtually no support or meaningful communication from Popcap, despite my best efforts to initiate with them. The business model instead was like a disposable mobile app, and no wonder it sunk. No heart, no soul, no success.

[@Drapperbat]

It really is a shame because I (and based on your donation messages, many others) stick with PvZ heroes a lot longer than they would have without your content. You show that there can be a lot nuance to the game that goes ignored. And yet, popcap lets it go to waste. The product is out, time for the next project

[@Malex2005]

PvZ Heroes is genuienely a fantastic game, questionable balancing aside. With a community as large as it currently has after like four years of being dead, abandoning it has probably been the worst mistake they ever did.

[@Sammytheflaaffyfan]

It sucks too because there were clearly so many aspects and tribes that were just begging to be expanded upon in a future update, but then they just... Didn't do anything about it. Kinda sucks given that the playerbase is still pretty healthy to this day.

[@jakedoesyoutube]

Seeing Popcap's graveyard of games makes me wish some other studio could buy the IP and tend to those poor games. PVZ Heroes and GW2 still had room for new content, and it sucks that no one works for Popcap these days. Atleast the servers are still running, right?

[@jecksfoxofficial]

You are still, the best PVZHeroes KZbinr, and thank u for ur amazing content!

[@jaqiqi33]

There is NO WORLD where someone's kid would be playing pvz and go like "Wow it would be cool if we could RENT plants. That would really make this game super fun"

[@xenxander]

yeah first thing i thought of when I heard that was.. 'i think he's lying'. or bests case scenario.. kid is brain washed by the mobile virus. But still i think he was lying.

[@kylemac9700]

Now, i think when this kid said this, He didnt mean it to cost actual irl money, so i think he meant like in crazy daves shop.. either way this kid accidently doomed PvZ2

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

Yeah I call bs. Just a weak excuse for the higher ups to obfuscate that they are asking for microtransactions.

[@wittywarbler1117]

there is NO WORLD where someone would live in a house and then go "Wow i wish i could rent this house" but ofc landlords will be parasites.

[@NickInTheField]

😂😂😂 right??

[@IGoOofALot14]

I love thinking “wow! what a great video! this was a good watch!” and then looking at the timestamp and seeing there’s a hour and a half left.

[@JohnnyH-om3yx]

It says, and I quote, "screen door zombie got his screen door from the last inexpertly defended house he attacked, after he ATE THE HOME OWNERS BRAINS!!!" in the PvZ 1 almanac.

[@undeadxvizionz]

I wish EA and the Devs could see this and realize their wrongs and how much we want this amazing franchise back.

[@ZenTerra-N.O.V.A]

In my opinion, i don't think EA will ever change their mind.

[@mellowcloud1359]

Its all about money and thats all EA cares about, most games that come out now are designed to be cash grabs. nothing will change, especially at the helm of EA

[@LightningBug04]

@@ZenTerra-N.O.V.Amoney has corrupted them beyond help

[@WobblesandBean]

I used to work as an executive producer in the video games industry. Believe me, they won't.

[@gabegrattan7405]

i play gw2 right now on steam its popping. still good

[@TinBlood]

I just genuinely wanna say from the bottom of my heart, thank you for making this video. PVZ means so much to me and has brought such awesome memories for me and this video, fully discussing how it fell and even hurt people is just truly amazing.

[@technick_clover7555]

Have you played the PVZ arcade game? It’s very fun

[@superprapu_]

Power bean

[@Zolerian]

Man this series was combo'd to death from all places. From the new developers, to the publisher, to the fans, to the industry. Hell came from everywhere. And using Zombies on Your Lawn as the credits theme was nostalgic, thanks for this.

[@sugarchii]

KZbin randomly put this video on my feed. Never heard of you or seen your videos before, haven't even thought about PvZ in years and barely played it back then. I listened to this entire near 3 hour upload never once getting bored or looking for something else to watch instead. This was such a good documentary with an incredible amount of work put into it, amazing job :)

[@ToxicSoul03]

One thing I think that’s under appreciated is in PvZGW2, you could bring all your progress and levels from PvZGW1 over to it. Including classes and such. That’s incredible that hardly any other multiplayer sequel does!

[@GNVS300]

I'm pretty sure you can't do that anymore, it was only until 2017

[@ToxicSoul03]

@@GNVS300 I wouldn’t know 😂 that’s all I remember from playing back then.

[@Alankao06]

I started in late 2017 and it didn’t give me the option to do so

[@cyberlord645]

I played the og on ps3 and the newer on Xbox one lol both were solid then we have pvzbfnb something weird

[@arikomart7209]

So that's why I have all the characters aceppt legendarys

[@Winasaurus]

As someone who handles accounting for companies, I've seen LOTS of mergers and acquisitions. Someone being 'laid off' is often just a low-profile firing. Because firing someone for not cooperating can look a little dictator-y, so instead you put their name on "The List", and whenever team downsizing comes around, they're the first ones to go, so that way you can just blame it on downsizing and nothing personal, even if it definitely is. And often that implicit threat is enough to make people do things they otherwise wouldn't, such as, say, cram microtransactions into an otherwise beloved series. Because if the big boss says that you need to make more revenue, and you say "but MTX are kinda scummy :/", you know you'll be on the list of people who will be gone next time there's any restructuring. So granted PopCap were the ones actually developing, there's an implicit threat by the mere existence of EA hovering over them. You know what happens to unprofitable development studios. I won't blame someone for acting strangely when they're under implicit threat of losing their career, which is why I always blame EA for the ruination, not the individual devs. EA are well-known for scooping up low to middling development companies, tightening up their operating costs and efficiency, and trying to make them as profitable as possible. If any person stands in the way of that, there's little reason for EA to keep them around. Company culture? Sounds like useless expenditure to the suits. Extravagant parties? Wasting money to the suits. Lengthy development cycles for one-time purchase games? Too inefficient and slow for the suits. So you end up with a more generic company with less interesting people pumping out cheaper games with more microtransactions. If it even vaguely looks like it's failing, burn it, try again. Because the development costs are so low with the new method that you're not wasting too much money just slapping together project after project and discarding the old attempts.

[@Danerade]

This was a really interesting and detailed explanation that paired well with talking about the intricacies of the PopCap and EA relationship found in the video, cool stuff!

[@ShinyTillDawn]

Man, if only socialism could work

[@Winasaurus]

​@@ShinyTillDawn If you know much about socialism, you'd know that the way state-owned companies 'fire' people they don't like involves them never showing up again. People disliking each other is a human problem, not an economic system problem. And optimizing the fun out of a company for the sake of productivity is similarly a human problem, it occurs in all economic systems.

[@kalebgray1050]

Ideally companies wouldnt be state owned, but employee owned. Authoritarian communism is when things are state owned. ​@@Winasaurus

[@Winasaurus]

@@kalebgray1050 Except employee-owned doesn't last. Eventually there has to be some controlling party due to the scale of the company. If that isn't a person who gets paid more as a manager, it's the state. (Also as a company grows the state has a vested interest in wresting control of the company from the individuals. Thats what happens to all successful start-ups in China, the government immediately buys them out so they follow government rules. Good luck finding any people who can resist being bought out by a blank check by the state)

[@T3rr0r626]

Great video! Even though I covered the topic myself a year ago I found myself amazed at the amount of revelations as to how deep the story goes. This is some next level research and should be heralded as a great piece of gaming journalism. It’s just sad that instead of discussing the fact that a massive childhood game company is on its last legs and is at serious risk of going under, people are too concerned with defending one comment in this nearly three hour long video. Glad to have my theories confirmed about EA’s involvement retroactively making my video age better too 😎😎😎

[@Danerade]

Thank you for the kind words Mr. T3rr0r! Also more thanks for recording all those lines (sorry I didn't give you context and dropped that bombshell on you lol).

[@ThememeingSun]

How do you say your chell name

[@B.L.U.S]

God T3rr0r I keep forgetting you are an emoji user that everyone would think is a kid(spams emojis at the end of comments) but you are actually good and probably has an normal IQ(hopefully) Also I have to check your channel again I saw more scratch

[@RyanSoltani]

People be focusing too much on the one bad thing

[@king0_035]

Yo whaddup t3rror been a sub since 2021 👍

[@TheMattShea]

2:28 HI MOM!!

[@hunterst6321]

I didn't even notice you there daamn

[@InvaderZimpressions]

Verbalase

[@karotgamin790]

😃

[@maozedong69420]

You fell off Mattshea, still love you tho

[@peanutbubbles7958]

@@maozedong69420😂 why say the first part? lmao

[@kl4969]

I don't know why it's a hard thing for big corps to understand (definitely not exclusive to EA): if you allow your talent to flourish, they'll give back in multiples. If you deprive them of light and water, they either waste away or leave.

[@cin2110]

You need those short term gains for the investors bro look at them monies, long term plans and structure? What's that in todays business world.

[@ricardojanate]

​​@@cin2110Same, when I saw that profit graphic I knew they shot themselves in the foot in 2013. The major change in 2007 coincided with a global financial crisis, and the slight negative profit change panicked investors and shareholders and they immediately pressed the panic button, changing the CEO and getting the culture and direction we got today. We may never know if they could have waited and invested a little money, if it would have worked. Now EA may be going through a very slow death, with an infested and corrupted workplace culture and direction, which already caused a reputation death with the consumers(us). The failure is both a sign of the rot in EA and other major companies. All I said applies to other megacorpos, just changing the details a little.

[@aloe7794]

"If you deprive them of light and water" Beatifiully worded and so fitting, considering the franchise we're talking about

[@wynterasiuuki]

I'm not even in the PVZ community and I can clearly recognize the sheer effort that went into this video. This was fascinating and the editing was entertaining and well placed. Fantastically done dude.

[@PixelRyzl]

This may be about a video about plants vs zombies demise and all but it also feels like a love letter to the franchise as a whole. The amount of information and effort put into this is quite spectacular as a whole and as a long time fan of plants vs zombies since childhood this feels like a great closure to everything that's being going wrong with the franchise so thank you so much Danerade.

[@BryceWhisperer]

As a PvZ KZbinr, I feel it is right to say that Plants vs. Zombies is definitely one of the most depressing downfalls to a video game franchise. PvZ holds a huge place in my heart, and it's such a shame for fans (me included) to see what has happened to their childhood game. The corporate greed of EA and Popcap shoved PvZ down from its pedestal, cramming it with microtransactions and advertisements. 2019 can basically be described as the year that ended PvZ. Battle for Neighborville was released, and the reviews for that game were not as complimenting as they were for the other games in the series. A pre-alpha for PvZ3 was released in 2020, and that game sucked. A second beta was released somewhere in 2021, having an update to the beta released in 2022 (I might be wrong about the dates) and that one was even worse. I was amazed by this video, it was extremely well constructed. It was so well done that I actually watched the entire 2 hours of it. And yes, it was indeed worth it. Danerade getting big KZbinrs like Foekoe and Wolfy Playz and even some of the most caring Popcap employees to talk about PvZ's downfall and their experiences with the franchise really says something about it. I think this video pretty much wraps the franchise up as a whole, and it's just depressing to see what has happened to this game and its community. Maybe a miracle will occur, and the franchise is redeemed. But it's highly unlikely. Thanks Danerade for making this masterpiece of a video. Have a lovely day everyone. Sorry I had to make an entire essay in the comments.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

Good thing I can sideload an older version of PvZ2 on my android.

[@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her]

@@ShinyTillDawn Keep backups too, friend. You never know what might happen to any phone & indeed OS. More & more corporate backdoors are making it hard to keep one's phone one's own.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her I tell people to do that all the time in other contexts.

[@NatetheNintendofan]

Root ​@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her

[@Fnafan97]

“I think this video pretty much wraps the franchise up as a whole” That physically hurt me, not because it’s wrong or because I disagree, but because it’s most likely true.

[@gunshipgod9833]

I'm amazed you managed to condense such a large amount of information and ideas in just under 3 hours, this definitely felt like it could've been upwards of 7 hours

[@jkengland832]

The amount of history of the PVZ Franchise is enough to tell under 3 hours, most of this video is overexplaining everything but it's done well

[@HappySunflower]

Can't believe I just watch this whole thing in one sit 👵great vid, you dived deep dude 👍

[@DogeIsaac]

I like your content!

[@toatallyasnowpea]

Nice

[@alexanderthegreat-mx5zu]

How deep 🤨

[@RyanSoltani]

Yo it’s the sunflower

[@Thesmus]

same, i was hungry and my head hurts, but i still decided to finish this in one seating lol

[@StriderStryker]

Sad that he didn’t mention the cancelled Plants vs. Zombies animation movie from Dreamworks. I saw the artwork from it and it looked amazing. The real question is what the plot of the movie would look like. 🤔

[@Jas.671]

It's just combination between games and comics. I guess it so.

[@realcrazychaosman5698]

As a person who loves the entire PVZ Franchise. I am very sad that this has happened to one of my most loveable games that I played as a kid and I still play the games today.

[@Strikertbp1tw]

Lucky enough there's mods, and wonderful people who actually care about franchise who makes them.

[@TheGreatPM1]

Honestly, the "I've had it!" genuinely sounded like genuine anger and it just shows how serious you are. Everything about this video is well done and researched well

[@goatsoup]

As someone who used to be a huge, huge fan of this franchise throughout my childhood, was involved with the community (I used to own/manage the "lawn" server many years ago), it's incredibly amazing to hear someone talk about my favorite games, with such clarity, detail and the same passion that I had for these games. (Also I used to be one of the few people back then who'd obsess over artists and musicians on these games and pulled up a lot of concept art, even owned the art book- so seeing them in this video and anecdotes from artists, creative people and name drops of musicians genuinely is so, so appreciated). This was such a fantastic video and I appreciate you for showing people a really good window into our weird little community :) EDIT: I just got to the interview part (I was only at the first half/covering the games) and oh my GOSH Erin Middendorf! She's my favorite artist who worked on the games, many memories of sharing her work around back in the day to others. AAAAAA!!!

[@BryantVonMiller]

Unrelated to your comment, wanted to compliment your oh so adorable profile photo!

[@hxyri]

get a job

[@fakeacc2015]

​@@hxyriwho hurt u lmaoo 😂

[@dragoonpreston3]

Very well made, and great research. Used to love Pop Cap games like so many others, and have been wondering what happened to them. Thank you for making this video.

[@nickk3077]

You know, this video is much more than a simple retrospective the Plants Vs Zombies franchise, but rather a video that delves into the deeper socioeconomics of how a work culture is shifted by an acquisition and the rippling effects it has on the various facets of the company. Like, this is one of the most well-researched video game-based videos I have ever seen on KZbin, as it cites really obscure parts of all sorts of development histories. Lots of PvZ2 data, which I think is very important because that marks the point of turning a winning game formula into something really horrible, but there is lots of data surrounding topics such as Plants Vs Zombies Heroes and Battle for Neighborville. I digress. This video is really amusing to me personally as someone who just finished their first semester in college, taking an intro sociology course. I remember having to write a 10 paper about an important social issue with 15 academic resources. This kinda parallels that exact experience, but this is way more entertaining. Kudos for turning what should be a mundane topic into something interesting.

[@Danerade]

Discussing the more boring and technical business related topics proved to be a challenge. But, I'm happy that it seems to have worked out, and while I didn't think of it initially, I suppose there is a lot to dissect here when it comes to corperations and work relations. Great thoughts!

[@theenderkirby]

​@@Danerade what can be said job well done that help me to see things more consistenly I maybe not delve too much on companies and PVZ is the first gaming franchise I got intrested but I admit I took some stuff too far wheter as a fan or a backlasher

[@nickk3077]

@@Danerade For real though, my sociology professor would have loved a lot of your video if you made it, like, a lot more boring and removed the appealing edits and jokes and made it more "professional". People can learn from you that just because the presentation doesn't come off as traditional, that doesn't mean that the quality of the core material is of bad quality. I dunno. Think this type of video can be a great influencer to help people would try to find these much bigger problems in these passions they have. Just speaking on my mind here. No real direction! Haha! Anyways. Keep at it! You did a better job explaining why I should be interested in social issues than my professor. Appreciate the work!

[@nickk3077]

If anyone was interested, my paper was on income inequality, defining what it is, and the economic efforts that both help and harm it. Does that topic interest you? Is it boring? To me, it doesn't matter. Only you can tell yourself that. I mean, you guys just watched a movie about how an external company buyout shaped social dynamics within the smaller company ending up to its doom... but admittedly that smaller company really shaped everyone's life here in some way. That paper was hell by the way. NEVER taking sociology again. Think I might major in something related to STEM.

[@RyanSoltani]

Industrial society and its future-

[@koalapvz]

This is a really well put together video and a huge thank you for getting the facts straight and interviewing the people directly involved in the franchise. The previous 'downfall' videos received criticism for a lack of research. Clearly you have put in the work to avoid such a thing and it has really paid off. I mean, this feels like a full cinematic documentary. However, while your criticisms of the community are valid, I feel like it has to be said that 99% of the community are kids. Young people can be impressionable and aren't going to have discussions about the franchise with this level of nuance. It isn't really reasonable to take things a fanbase of mostly children say in comments or about you or the companies involved etc. to heart. This goes for any content creator in a similar situation really. Not to say that your criticisms of the community aren't valid, but I feel like the demographic of the player base explains why they are so 'militant' and opinionated, they're mostly children passionate about the franchise. I hope your video gets seen by a lot of people, it truly is great. I just hope that the more personal intermissions don't dilute the overall video like some have been saying.

[@Danerade]

First off, thank you so much! In regards to the community, it is no doubt a touchy subject, yet something I felt was important. I know I said it in the video, and maybe even should have said it again, but it doesn’t describe “everyone.” And I think it’s fair to say there is a spectrum on how aggressive some people are. My opinion mostly came as a content creator, which is an extremely unrelatable perspective for most people. At the very least, I hope this video sparks some discussion on how people see the PopCap/EA story.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

And this is why children should not use social media and thus keep their opinions to themselves unless they can articulate them maturely.

[@usernametaken017]

I mean it's not unfair to say that most pvz fans are in a very young age demographic. The games are generally targeted to children after all (especially the newer ones)

[@660nj]

Not gonna lie, I enjoyed watching this video. Good seeing a video with some nuance to it. There was a lot of research done that presented facts I don't think most of us have ever considered. Especially loved all of the interviews you had. I really respect the time and effort that went into this video. I hope that the people who watch this and aren't really in the community don't take away the wrong ideas because of some serious character misrepresentation (especially with RFL and Altverz, because I have no idea what you were referring to, same with the shade thrown at people like Random). You make really fair criticisms against the community, but some specific examples you presented about the it being bad make no sense and this video is getting instantly disregarded by most because of it, despite all of the really good information you presented. I hope people come back to this soon and listen to the criticisms you made against the greater PvZ community because a lot of it deserves to be recognized. I think a lot of the hate for the videos like The Beak's comes from a decade of blatant misinformation being spread around. It's hard to be a PvZ fan and not snap like most have because the only thing this franchise is known for is how EA supposedly fired George Fan. It's pretty disheartening to see games you care so much about get instantly disregarded over rumors, and videos that perpetuate those false ideas only receive negative attention because of how they've been disproven, no matter the intentions of the creators. The Beak's video in particular really appeared to have no thought behind it because it used blatant mod footage and (unintentionally?) passed it off as official. Also, love how you pronounced Altverz. Never heard it said that way before.

[@Nutellagott]

The 2 seed slots man is here!!!🐔

[@fishingrod2253]

it sucks because this is legitimately the best video on pvz i've seen, but that section is already turning people against it which i dont even blame them since it feels really petty

[@660nj]

@@fishingrod2253 Exactly how I feel...it really sucks because the rest of the video is so good

[@leontriestoart]

Wtf based take

[@colbycornwall2344]

I like the video it well-made but it make the pvz community and modders look very bad and evil and that my criticism and why I don’t like the part about were it make the pvz community and modders look bad

[@beanburrito4405]

57:38 When I first watched that video a few years ago, my first thought was “I agree with most of what’s being said, but damn, if this guy isn’t going to hate this video in the future”. Seems that the future is now lol. You’re awesome Dane 👍👍

[@YaBoiJonesy]

This is insanely well thought out and well constructed, congrats on the fantastic video! It's impressive that despite being over 2 hours long it managed to keep my interest through the whole thing.

[@CrazyQuilman157]

The fact that PvZ2 changed so drastically from launch to the end of Adventure Mode to now is really...something else.

[@XxTheCupidKidxX]

I remember when the maps were like an actual maze you could choose your path through and then when they changed it I had an awful feeling it was going to get worse. Then it did

[@ballisticchillz]

First of all wanna say this was probably the best PvZ summarization I've ever seen. 2nd, as a long time fan of the franchise whos loved the series since pvz 1 I wish we had more but despite with how much gaming has changed in terms of monetization, I'm afraid we can never see creativity again. I feel like as if PvZ 3 may be the last pvz game out of popcap and for how successful the older titles are rn they will continue to grow. I hope for the future of this franchise to properly restart and hopefully be back on creativity and not some cash grab but that will most likely never happen again.

[@raylenn4444]

Indie devs disagree. Corporate devs are dying out and fizzling away,as devs are fed up with corpos being overbearing. So we're at the brink of a big corpo collapse that will leave the indies more free than ever.

[@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her]

​@@raylenn4444 I really, really hope so. So many of the greatest hits nowadays are indie, & are hits because they truly resonated with the player-base, & formed personal communities & friendships & creative growth among fans. But, the more shallow pay-to-win tripe keeps coming out, the more the young generations get funneled into the "this is reality, accept it" mindset about that format. So many of them don't even know how to get into Settings, how to edit their posts online, or that cussing people out is NOT how to show respect... They're being groomed into mindless consumption of microtransaction formats as The Way Things Are, are less likely to look outside of that spoon-fed source... & that's what the corporations want. Less thinking for yourself, more mindless consuming, scrolling, & feeding the algorithms. I hope enough of this young, impressionable group (as well as older folks trying to learn modern tech, & thus also being funneled into the simple & addictive like this) find out that there's so much more out there, so much deeper & better & more meaningful, off to the side as one-time purchases (or totally free without data harvesting), straight from creators' hearts, out there if one is brave enough to venture off the beaten path. Which is getting gradually more difficult to do. Only if we show enough of them the way, so they can make informed decisions, can this movement succeed. I sincerely hope it can.

[@res6148]

@@raylenn4444and thats when the indies will probably form corporations after upscaling

[@raylenn4444]

@@res6148 unfortunately. Unless we abolish the shareholder system and the stock market to prevent such an outcome.

[@ElenaSofia98]

What an incredibly well-made video. Like many others, the original PvZ holds much nostalgia for me and to see the name go downhill over the years due to greed has been depressing. Obviously a complex situation with many factors but fascinating to hear about. Thank you for all the time and effort put into this!

[@Potato-so6zr]

I might be biased because I grew up playing PvZ2 instead of the original. I personally think PvZ2 is a good sequel to the original game. It expands PvZ to various historical themes, all contain unique zombies with various mechanics. All though some worlds level designs were horrible. I think the relief after completing such levels felt accomplishing like how you felt when beating the boss of the original game. I personally disagree with the music being lackluster. Neon Mixtape Tour has the best music and Dark Ages music is goofy but fun to listen. Lost City opening level music was adventurous and felt like I was exploring a jungle in some old timey movie. I agree that they could have added more mechanics on some worlds like Lost City. What really killed PvZ2 was the leveling up system and the fact that they stopped adding worlds after Modern Day.

[@SporianSummit]

i believe only the international version stopped adding worlds, from what i recall i think the chinese version is still adding new worlds occasionally and stuff.

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@SporianSummit Ah yes, but is a shame, worlds in PvZ2 Chinese after MD are a bit lackluster. The art is good , very good, but everything else... There is a unique Garg which has 4x HP (If frozen is smaller) of a normal Garg in a world which can teleport them to the first/second collumn... Yikes.

[@Olimarfrompikmin]

my only peaves are no more hopping between worlds after beating day 6 of AE, and microtransactions

[@SporianSummit]

@@JoseViktor4099 yeah, its an annoying double-edged sword sadly

[@martinszymanski2607]

brother if you "grew up" playing a 10 y/o game you're still a kid lol

[@archysimpson2273]

Plants vs zombies Heroes was the PVZ I played the most and was the game that got me into card games. And I'd still be playing it and watching fry em up if it kept getting up dates

[@JacobKasza]

Same

[@Angelofo]

Bro i hacked my tablet to be in new zealand to play it in beta and man I did not expect it to be my favorite card game ever and its almost entirely cuz of the gameplay and not as much the characters

[@Zyaire286]

Me too.

[@borisstoyanov3488]

Same, man. I miss this game so much. What a waste of potential.

[@dualrotorhelicopter]

This is, by far, been the best video I have ever seen regarding PopCap's downward slope recently. Good job, Gatorade!

[@A_Guy89076]

Gatorade 🍹

[@Peely_Idk]

Lost city actually isn’t from the Aztec period or anything like that. Rather, it is actually based on the time when ancient cities were being discovered.

[@mutiiYT]

Wow.... I did not expect this. The fact that you got big names like Wolfy and Foekoe (i butchered that name) to just say a bunch of lines to interviewing 4 ex Popcap employers is just mindblowing. This was easily worth waiting almost an entire year for. And it does make me sad that Plants vs zombies is almost 15 years old and yet i doubt something will be done to celebrate that moment. I remember playing this game when i was i think 7, it was a demo that only featured the 2 parts. It sure was an experience. I think i bought the first game on Steam in late 2021 i dont really remember, what i do remember is me completing a good chunk of this game in one sitting (the same day i bought the game). Would not recommend but it should keep you engaged. I think for the 15 year anniversary i will review every game. Lets see how that will go considering your rant about the community and the creators. That was hilarious and also a pretty good wake up call for the community. But PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NEVER EVER MAKE VIDEOS THAT TAKE ALMOST 1 YEAR TO EDIT, im not saying that i hate these its just that i love your videos and want to see more. Welp that was my TED talk ig. Briliant video!

[@GNVS300]

I'm pretty sure the Wolfy bit is taken from an older video rather than a 'true' feature (I think it might have been his 'Truth About PVZ' video); Danerade edited clips over it but the dialogue sounds familiar. Edit: couldn’t find it in that video, it might be original after all

[@Pyrodiac]

No, you got Foekoe's name right.

[@SliminBlue]

I was a diehard PvZ fan for years, even to the point of thoroughly enjoying PvZ 2 for a long while. Even today I still have the original game on my phone just in case I'm bored and need something to play. But the most telling thing about the state of PvZ nowadays is that I've moved over to Bloons instead of modern PvZ. I still think when it comes to the older games in each series PvZ 1 beats out the older Bloons games, but Bloons TD 6 is EASILY the current tower defense king and it's not even close. It might be $7 on mobile and I think $15 on PC, but that price tag comes with a genuinely great game that while you can buy more stuff in, is still a great game without buying a single thing besides the game itself. Meanwhile PvZ 2 is a F2P wasteland and 3 isn't looking to turn out much better, if it ever releases at all. It's sad since this is still one of EA's more unique franchises, and it's not like the only good game was the first since we got Garden Warfare 1 and 2 which were actually great shooters. At this point, I think the best we can do is continue to mod PvZ 2 to make it good again, keep the first game downloaded on every device you have, and hope EA keeps the servers for GW2 running.

[@prismarine3577]

mucho texto

[@ALPHA.ZONE_]

​@@prismarine3577imagine playing mobile games only for the past 10 years get a life

[@yawningabyss681]

The PvZ to Bloons pipeline is so real.

[@Powomp]

I’m happy this video exists. Independently from how the PvZ community will receive it, I think it adds really well to the conversation and it’s a solid case study on why monetization in games is the way it is, both in mobile and console games. It’s important to question and be critical of not only the games we play but of any media we decide to enjoy and put our money on. The PvZ franchise had a change like this happen because it was an economically successful decision to adapt to the mobile gaming market. Games with microtransactions and scummy business practices exist because at some point many people started to, and still are, giving money to games with these practices. If we truly care about the games we play and the media we enjoy, we have to be mindful of these sorts of business practices and how we indulge in them, because like it or not, we vote with our money. Micro-transactions and in app purchases wouldn’t be a thing if they weren’t successful in the first place.

[@silk128b4]

beautiful interpretation!

[@SisyphusGrimace]

But the main reason they're successful is because they're targeting extremely exploitable demographics such as children and teens in a very predatory way. Also, if the market is so saturated with F2P and microtransaction type content that it's pretty much unavoidable (which is at least the case when we're talking about mainstream video game companies) "voting with your wallet" has no effect because these companies know that they don't have to change their business practices because they have no other choice. Personally, I think it's a problem with the whole incentive structure here, as the evolution of video gaming from a niche market to an absolutely monolithic one has vastly warped the profit motives of these large companies into increasingly risk-averse tactics, which is understandable when a underperforming main-title game can lose millions and billions of dollars, but doesn't exactly make for great game design.

[@RyanSoltani]

Agreed

[@ivraDiaNCE]

This video is definitely your magnum opus so far. I really like the way you articulated your points and the video flowed very well, I look forward to your future stuff!

[@nalrendepaepe93]

I remember the first time I discovered hypno shrooms and I thought they were just insta kills but with a cool going away thing, the moment I realized they ate the other zombies I got so excited that the moment I told my family who were there the way I did was so iconic we sometimes refrence ie to this day and this was 10 years ago

[@Draconis_Eltanin]

I have to say I appreciate how well segmented the video was: it really helped pacing this quite long, but justifiably so, video. Bravo.

[@kapoopy2856]

Man what a great video. I still have such an attatchment to pvz, even though I don't play the games anymore. These goofy scrungly designs will always hold a very special place in my heart. Seeing you go through all these efforts for this video, made me happy that you were able to end on a happy note through it all. It's easy feeling sad over the franchise's fallout, at least for me, but I'm happy to see there's love and appreciation for these games still, even though its spinning its weels and past its prime. I must sound like a nostalgia maniac, but I really hope there will be similar games like these in the future. With a calm, rustic, and mysterious soundtrack, and impeccibly charming designs.

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

Holy shit? I never would've dreamed that youtubers would be able to get exclusive interviews like this. You've made an amazing and thoughtful documentary with all the hilarious gamer rage (emotional honesty) of youtube.

[@Teku69420]

This video was great from start to finish, honestly reminded me lots of the "The ACTUAL History of Bloons" documentary and sooner or later Id expect your video to see similar results in terms of likes and views. 👍

[@williamkrause9968]

I did not know that I needed a 2.5 hours video about the fall of pvz but im here for it.

[@User-d6l6t]

It’s actually 2.54 hours

[@elianhg2144]

@@User-d6l6tits 2.75. where did you get 54 from?

[@droopmoose]

I have autism

[@carsonmcgee982]

Did anybody ask?

[@Kiddo5010]

Im retarded

[@Unnamed-vp4rh]

​@@carsonmcgee982I DID

[@pcn545]

@@carsonmcgee982no, but no one asked you to comment either and yet you still did so

[@pcn545]

@@carsonmcgee982 yep that’s about the response I expected. Can’t come up with a comeback so just reinstate

[@duy02091999]

Damn, I've never ever been focused on watching something like more than 2 hours long. But this video caught all my attention and time, but it's worth it. Clever writing, user-friendly editing, and tons and tons of information, jokes, opinion. This is a masterpiece. Thank you for your time and effort, reseaches. I love it so much.

[@diantontowi43]

same i have same opinion with you

[@piggypige]

Not the Quebec diss in the middle of the video I’m literally just tryna vibe it’s not my fault

[@ahumanbeing4591]

Opinion invalidated (quebec)

[@josephbubash1662]

Just finished watching the entire video (had to take a couple breaks) and i just have to say WOW. The amount of research, editing, and nuance is arguably better than many news network studio documentaries. As a fan of pvz from playing the original game as a kid, i learned a lot about popcap, EA, and some games i didn't even know existed. Thank you for putting in all of the time and effort into this video, i think your research is extremely credible and challenges the rather oversimplified takes many of us have on the decline of the pvz franchise. Most importantly though, thank you for paying homage to the employees of popcap, as this franchise simply couldn't have existed without them.

[@Jornker]

As someone who got too engrossed in this community a while back and ended up getting too involved in dramas (I honestly really regret it, I did some stupid things). I hope people in this community learn something from this video and help evolve this community to improve, because the people in this community are basically what this game franchise has left.

[@loogi_is_die]

Jornker mario maker 3 ideas: goomba shroom

[@pissedoffbucketguy9115]

"the community is what this franchise has left" Tf2:first time?

[@Kabal39]

Lol pvz drama? Why’re there so many cringy children in these comments

[@loogi_is_die]

@@Kabal39 literally every community has drama

[@Jornker]

@@Kabal39 The modding community in particular has a lot of drama, over mod ideas, gatekeeping, and some other really stupid stuff.

[@coldandstinky]

I loved this series and it does suck that it decayed so badly. I liked that you included interviews of former employees. It was very informative.

[@MakotoIchinose]

I grew up playing games from PopCap throughout the 2000s, Plants vs Zombies included, and they were one of the reason why I pursued (and eventually got a job in) game development. Seeing their demise a decade later and watching through this documentary felt bittersweet and personal to me. In a way, they were my childhood gamedev hero. I guess one way to think about it is that they had their era ended, and now it's the turn of aspiring developers like me to pass on the torch. If it weren't for playing their games as a kid and curiosity got the best of me, I wouldn't have studied game development, from pirated copy of Game Maker recreating PopCap stuff to ended up learning Unreal Engine despite the odds against me, and somehow make a living out of it. Thank you, past PopCap for inspiring me, and thank you, Danerade for the effort into this video.

[@wateringstar]

Absolutely breathtaking video. I watched every second of it and absorbed so much information I have never thought to dive into myself... Sincerely eye-opening when it comes to the businesses that make my favorite games as well as the hardships of the developers who put their hearts and souls into making them. I've rarely watched your videos, but this just exudes passion.

[@Kuruli]

Really felt like your heart and soul was put into this video (which I bet it was), and I think that this is a perfect end-all-be-all video to document the fall of PvZ. Great work!

[@gunnerdown]

14:03 “you realize popcap is a studio of humans with feelings who took time to make this whole game” is the shittiest argument I’ve ever heard for a game not being good

[@yoshimansw]

You referenced your age a few times throughout this video, and I have to say this is an EXTREMELY well made video for how old you are. You're incredibly well spoken and great research went into this. Have never hit subscribe faster in my life. Keep up the great work!

[@dexterthekitteh]

Yep. Sure as a 17 year old myself I feel the video does drag on and also feel like he doesn’t understand what an opinion is, and how having a different one doesn’t make you any less correct, or how he goes on and on about how the community is bad and how everyone only blames ea but no one realizes that pop cap has just as much blame. I feel this vid should have stoped after around the 1 hour mark, also the fact he said pvz isn’t dead, despite this video being a video saying it’s dead. But yeah other than that and him basically copying Scott the woz’s video style, good vid.

[@Dumm_ye]

small question, have you even finished the video ​@@dexterthekitteh

[@wesdert]

Y'know I've watching you since your pv3 video. it's been fun watching your videos seeing you get better at editing and content making. and now you've come back full circle to pvz. Well done danerade. well done.

[@jesuschrist.3349]

Pvz heroes honestly deserve’s more love, thank you.

[@niktonin7208]

Exactly!

[@mikadosannoji553]

i do wonder which game got it worse, pvz heroes or tf2

[@Stupei3555]

@@mikadosannoji553tf2 gets updates now dude 💀💀💀💀💀 sure they barely change much, but it gets updates

[@not_a_cheter]

YO ITS JESUS1!?!?1/?

[@starbitburst]

When I was younger I ADORED PvZ. I had it on my DS, ps3, and phone My dad liked the game, but didn't care for how slow it was. When PvZ Garden Warfare came out, we were ecstatic. I used to watch him play call of duty but found it too boring to play myself. It was finally a shooter-equivalent I was so excited to play, and we could do it together. We spent HOURS in that game, I have such fond memories of it

[@thatliquidthing1903]

“PvZ mods aren’t good” Reflourished: -Challenging new expansions -Improved Jurassic Marsh -2 full new worlds -Cool Piñata Parties -Balanced premium plants -New Endless Zones AltVerZ: -Awesome casual-oriented rework that makes sure worlds don’t get old -Veteran quests and puzzles for seasoned players -Holiday quests that promote cool plants -New tracks for every world -New gimmicks and zombies for every world -More affordable premiums and easy ways to get rewards And that’s not even mentioning more mods I’ve enjoyed like Legends EX or Chronoscapade…dude, mods are keeping the community alive. These devs go HARD on these and deserve recognition, instead of turning a blind eye to them and therefore turning players away.

[@TR_DJ]

Bro really said allow us to introduce ourselves

[@Obsructor2]

To add to this, PVZ 1, GW2, and PVZ Heroes mods are also out there and let me say, they’re really cool just to check out. Like just playing them reminds me of what it felt like to experience new things in PVZ.

[@МаксимВарзарь-щ7п]

Legend EX is a very controversial thing huh ... Not for everyone . Chronoscapade is better but gameplay feels a bit way too long. Honestly even eclise is a great mod if you look at it without its developer drama. And main complaint to it from many players in terms of difficylty spike just doesnt feel so big in comparison to Shuttle and Legend EX crazy difficulties...

[@blazingblaze250]

Both are boring and mid

[@donanilao7724]

PvZ mods (Altervz, Reflourished, Plus) are all great, and you can't tell me otherwise.

[@theweakestbrazilian1674]

Mais outro vídeo bem feito Dane, mas esse é realmente especial! Eu agradeço a cada um dos funcionários da Pop Cap, por proporcionar momentos inesquecíveis, mesmo tendo zero de nostalgia pelo primeiro Plants vs Zombies, o jogo tem um lugar reservado no meu coração. Levou um tempo pra digerir toda a informação presente no vídeo, mas deu certo. Foi um verdadeiro documentário jornalístico com muita pesquisa, informação, explicação precisa e críticas pessoais que realmente não tangenciaram o foco do assunto. Essa obra merece ser vista por mais pessoas, mesmo com a complicação criada pela barreira linguística. Merry Christmas, Dane! You're pretty good!

[@ToastedCrumpy]

It’s so cool you were able to reach out and interview those 4 at the end. This has to be your best video yet!

[@BrokenLightBulbStudios]

Over the past month I have been watching a bit of this video every day. I just wanted to say thank you for making this video because I learned a lot about what to do and what not to do for a company or to other people not even in a company! I feel that this video has helped me personally a lot. It also helped me find out what happened to one of my favorite franchises! Thank you for not putting fluff in the story or making things up and telling it how it is!

[@ViddysVids]

Literally insane video! It's crazy seeing you grow from when we met a couple years ago! This is your best work yet!

[@ljtheone]

Despite it being 2 hours long I managed watch basically the entire thing in one sitting which no other KZbinr has done for me, that's how well made this is

[@Danerade]

Thanks for your help as well!

[@enzodelgado2912]

As a long time fan like many others, this video is so well researched and dives into the more unknown parts of this whole rabbit hole very well especially with the interviews. It’s sad to see PvZ and Popcap in its current state but hopefully things will get better as time passes. Amazing video man.

[@thebear2950]

PVZ heroes had unlimited card combinations that after 5 years since last update, theres still new deck ideas coming out and the meta is evolving

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

The dominant strats are always the same, but there's always some wonky set that just beats it somehow

[@DistortedChick]

Phenomenal Video! Any question I would have had for this franchise was answered to great detail while still retaining that fun sense of humour you're known for. I want to say more, but I don't know what else to say. I just... cannot belive what I just watched. 10/10 Danerade TEN OUT OF TEN!!!👏

[@RidiculousTies]

It was quite refreshing to hear criticism of the community, I've been working on a video of GW2 since August of this year and every time I mention it on social media I get flooded by spam bots despite my extremely small outreach and followerbase. It's almost thrown me off the video altogether, but hearing others having experienced the same thing has kind of reinvigorated me to finish it. Glad others are noticing and speaking out about the toxicity

[@CamelRoach]

This is one delicious vid dropped and might I argue one of the best videos I've watched on KZbin this year, you deserve all the credit for your efforts and how you shined light on the franchise.

[@morpphh]

Beautifully written and perfect closure to one of my childhood favorites. It's so sad to see the way PVZ fell off, but I'm Happy we got a few good games and memories with family and friends

[@SOULSCOPETOTALDEFEAT]

Amazing video- I’ve watched a few others on your channel in recent years and you’ve grown a lot- I listened to the whole thing and it was very well researched and put together so I congratulate you on that. It really helped me understand the process of what happened to Popcap and pvz in general much better!

[@mabkgaming1318]

This was one of the best videos i ve watched ever. I can feel the amount of research out into this and it being more than 2 and a half hours long... thats insane. Thank you for providing us theese information about this situation. I hope that both ea and pop cap tryes to save the pvz series. If they would try, they could

[@RyanSoltani]

This was an amazing analysis of the series! Plants vs. Zombies will always have a soft spot in my heart for being something I was really into back in the day (specifically PvZ2). I just hope that the franchises continuing downfall will come to an end because it deserves to be brought back into the lime light for being such a creative and fun time. What a great retrospective

[@SnoFitzroy]

It's really funny that the one zombie you chose to interrogate, screendoor, is the only one that explicitly explains how he got his props - the almanac says he successfully got into someone's house and just. Took the door. Right off the hinges. edit: 14:52 I've done this at least three times and it was the most fun I've had with the franchise outside of Adventures tbh. edit2: Hearing about workers being treated less-than-stellar by/at PopCap is honestly really heartbreaking to hear. Like the obvious "just treat the workers properly" aside, largely thanks to PvZ, for the longest time my ultimate dream job would have been to work at PopCap. I wanted to join their art team and maybe improve some of this franchise's recent art (at the time I kinda hated pvz2's art style lol) I guess dropping out of college was kind of dodging a bullet :/ So disappointing. edit3: On the one hand I WANT to like the idea of a pvz match game. On the other hand...Bejeweled. edit4: WE COULD HAVE HAD TBOI X PVZ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? edit5: *We lost out on pvz x pokemon for A FUCKING STAR WARS GAME?!?*

[@musicexams5258]

Technically, there is a TBOI x PvZ fangame, called I RULE Go play it, it's really fun and it's free and I mean truly free

[@SUPERLEAF026]

It reminded me more of that game called Archero or something like that

[@mobgabriel1767]

no we lost on a pvz x pokemon for A FUCKING STAR WARS GAME THAT NEVER RELEASED...thanks EA

[@SnoFitzroy]

@@musicexams5258 I had already played it when I wrote the comment. It's not official. I'm referring to official releases made by PopCap specifically.

[@Nick_games294]

I really did love the pvz franchise ever since I was 6, I still do, but I just wish that this franchise could grow more with games like gw2 that game really touches my heart and the whole francise. It's gonna be sad to see this game slowly rot over the years, but I will still remember the fun times I had with Popcap's best game I could ever stumble upon. :(

[@lameerrorone]

THIS is the best video on your channel, thank you for your work. You cleared up a lot of things and told us a story of the Pop Cap downfall. The last part of the video with interviews from employees was very special. It was heartwarming, sad, interesting, genuine and inspiring. It almost made me cry, so many good people who created something special got torn apart by Corporate Greed, but even after that, they stayed a Family. Thank you Denerate. Even if you are sometimes just a silly youtuber sometimes ,who jokes around and screams. You did something special with this video. I will forever be grateful for that. Love you and your content. You're the best Denerate.

[@niktonin7208]

Thank you, Danerade, for this video! I appreciate the effort that was put into its production. Although, there are some flaws, but as I can see other commentators have already mentioned them

[@cyncynshop]

This is such a labor of love. I can see how much you covered and the interviews are inquisitive and respectful

[@DaBGaTGames0412]

I love how I got an ad before every single section started. My experience watching this amazing video was ruined by hearing a loud brief noise followed by a new toyota ad right before entering a new section, thanks KZbin

[@luckygaming2156]

Gotta get that p somehow 😂

[@houssenthekiller8337]

Ad block

[@caronationelm8443]

This video need to be seen by the current pvz community. Its explains every single problem with great editing without being any mono tone an all. The creator and the original team should be praised, not just blame EA and letting Popcap off the hook. This is a great video and shouldnt give any hate.

[@itstinymighty]

I’ve been a PvZ fan for forever now and have seen all of these types of videos, and honestly you’ve done it the best and I love that you show that you care about the franchise, hopefully Pop Cap turns around and hopefully we get GW3 LMAO, but this video does do a great service to the community!

[@flagzombie]

9:37 Correction, BFN also didn't have Flag Zombies.

[@constantine5028]

🥸

[@Ellee999]

Hello @flagzombie

[@markopopovic9874]

Hi flag 👋

[@MAXIMA]

healer zombie has a flag

[@Sammytheflaaffyfan]

No wonder it failed so hard.

[@Swagger_Guy]

This is probably one of the best PvZ videos on KZbin EVER! There’s clearly been a lot of research for your points made in the video, I would like to see more videos like this for different games/game series.

[@TheBluehatPerson]

Basically the conclusion is : PopCap thinks that EA bought them is a good thing because of changes of the era (it was a good decision at the time (kinda)). Eventually, EA forced them to obey "100 million dollar revenue target" rule (and other corporate things), which mostly caused the former employees to leave because they are afraid and hurts their creativity (this also makes the others slowly left, too). And the new employees are simply don't care (or even understand) about their games anymore because the others are already gone, and that makes PopCap having an identity crisis and is now struggling to live. ...also is that the ps3 grasswalk in the intro

[@Danerade]

That summary sounds about right! The PopCap/EA relations rabbit hole goes quite deep as explained in the video. And yes, that IS INDEED the PS3 Grasswalk orchestral arrangement. Back when I was playing PvZ VS Mode, one day it just stuck out to me and I said, "someway, somehow, I will include this in a video." Funny how life works.

[@Itplaysss]

I dont even know how to feel I feel happy because this was homestly one of the best videos Ive seen in a long time I feel nostalgic because the old clips of the original and gw2 brought back so many memories I feel sad that I lost the hope for new games to have potential for longevity And I feel a bit angry on how unfortunate things turned out in the end I dont think any other video has ever done something like this before

[@norukamo]

Hello! You probably don't know this but ever since your Eclise video, I have began playing mods of the game which I have found really fun to play and are a great escape from the microtransaction hell the vanilla version is. I *never* play mods in any game, but seeing your video in the past introducing a mod that introduces genuinely fun concepts such as tiering, it made me try one for the first time and I honestly could not have thanked you enough. After Eclise, I branched out into other mods such as Reflourished (I don't play anymore) and AltVerZ (my personal favorite) and I have to say that I have never heard of significant negative drama from both mods. I know the backlash from that one video might have been very traumatic for you as a content creator, but I can say that the modding community has certainly breathed life into a game that I would have otherwise abandoned. I love this franchise and it hurts me so much to see it die, so playing AltVerZ and Reflourished and even Eclise has given me hope that this franchise may still have odds of retribution. Please try AltVerZ and Reflourished! They and the community are not as bad as you may think! Anyway, thank you so so much for introducing me to mods! That video really really reallyy meant a lot to me and I don't want it to have never existed at all.

[@samanjj]

Thanks for the extensive research. My family and I love PVZ Heroes and have been playing for almost a decade. I wanted to let you know that when we play online 1:1 mode, we still find matches with other players almost instantly all day every day all year long. This game is still very popular but sadly is only being updated for bug fixes. It is fun and creative. We would love an update

[@Bonnet9330]

7:03 it's stated in Screen Door Zombie's almanac entry he got the screen door from the last house the zombies invaded (After eating the owner's brains)

[@pichitosmalltown3239]

You've really grown, man! I remember learning about the existence of a third PvZ game from you and while it had a lot of charm, it was pretty shoddy. Now, this? This is amazing! The depth of your research was fascinating to me, especially when you interviewed former PopCap employees. So cool!

[@GB-sr9kv]

bro forgor about pvz china edition 💀

[@poopa_stinka]

Those games are so interesting, especially since a lot of them are unavailable now so there’s only so much information about them

[@shwirl8597]

I'll be honest this video still holds up as my favourite video on KZbin, such a good deep dive into every game and it brings round some of my favourite youtubers, 6/5 stars

[@Victor-vz1jg]

This was a great video essay! Been in the PvZ community since the release of PvZ and still learned something from this video! Well done!

[@Creeps20]

hey look i was mentioned time to write a funny comment, but as i fail at writing a funny comment, i shall instead feed into parasocial relationships and answer the question because i too am succeptible to this The reason you don't like Wild West is due to the way levels work in the first few worlds. Due to 1.7 reworking the entire game, each world went from 10 levels to 25, adding in a lot of objectives to old levels to allow them to repeat. Wild West has this worse than most, especially considering Bull Zombie appears in, quite literally, 3 levels in WW. 13, 17 and 24. It is dumb. A lot of the levels instead are just basics and minecarts against an overly tight objective, with maybe a single unique special, which is fine once or twice but gets overly repetitive by the midway point. It also means the levels completely fail to account for Dynamic Difficulty, a mechanic that was later removed and caused your WW-16 to look like how it did. In early-ish versions of PVZ2 the game would see how often you win/lose levels, and if you win a ton in the row, will significantly increase difficulty by spawning a lot more zombies. However, this is global, and not actually tied to specific levels and rarely was disabled, meaning it often created BS. It also didn't work with poncho properly, due to internal reasons I won't cover, causing poncho to be spammed way more than it should and providing way too much danger. Combine that with the minecarts and, again, tons of levels with a very tight objective and you can see where the nonsense comes from. Its important to note that while I adore Wild West, thats more so due to mods rather than the actual PVZ2 incarnation of it, where zombies like Bull gets actual usage, and minecarts get used to their fullest extent, as opposed to the really questionable level design that plagues really, all of the early PVZ2 worlds. anyways bye lol

[@imtoolazyforaprofilepic4961]

Creeps uoh 😭😭😭😭

[@Otterlier]

Absolutely talk your talk king

[@GNVS300]

The Bull only appearing in 3 levels has annoyed me for nearly 10 years now

[@donanilao7724]

*H E L L O*

[@thepurplemudkip9998]

it’s cool how this video would have been good had danerade not been so opinionated and cynical

[@aricaice6447]

This is the first video I came across in your channel and usually an hour long video is just background noise while I work on my shop, I admit that this two hour long deep dive is absolutely informative and entertaining and I was so invested what the hell happened to PopCap as I loved the very first Plants versus Zombie game (I wasn't able to watch the sequels and garden warfare as they do not really float my boat anymore but I always wondered what happened to the IP). Many kudos to you for all the effort and video production, I instantly subscribed!

[@mebandae1360]

This entire story is enfuriating to hear about, this video is insanely in-depth and amazingly formatted, i hope all goes well for you