What tier list would you like to see in the future??
@pm-wr5xv4 жыл бұрын
Romance in fantasy!
@ElijsDima4 жыл бұрын
Fantasy mounts (aka rideables aka transportation (living, unliving, and mechanical)...
@victorvarga49204 жыл бұрын
Battles in fantasy books
@estebanr4574 жыл бұрын
King killer plot lines (because it bassicly became a short story book)
@David-se5ph4 жыл бұрын
Sci-fi universes
@DS-mi9ru4 жыл бұрын
The good way to use plot armour: The protagonist doesn't survive because he is the protagonist, he is the protagonist because he survives.
@Rik-B4 жыл бұрын
The Way of Kings in a nutshell. (Also, I definitely agree and it's a great way of putting it!)
@paulocampo58304 жыл бұрын
I agree. If you look at it that way. We follow these people because they survive not the other way around
@kristiandonchev26414 жыл бұрын
That sound like ASOIAF to me.
@raetekusu14 жыл бұрын
@@Rik-B My first thought. Also, the difference between Books Jon Snow and Jon Shnow.
@joonaspenttila2014 жыл бұрын
Thats how ive always viewed plot armor
@Warrior102234 жыл бұрын
One trope that I like that not featured here is the “cavalry is here trope” one of my personal favorites
@jacksonmoeller83503 жыл бұрын
Totally agree
@doxazo55123 жыл бұрын
Isn’t that also a military movie thing? And sci-fi? Though you may count that as fantasy too
@tinnmyskyewalker92643 жыл бұрын
@@doxazo5512 I believe that is from the idea that cavalry are the strongest force in the battlefield
@alcoyot3 жыл бұрын
Is that really a trope? Should cavalry never be allowed to go anywhere. I guess it’s a trope if it always only comes “just in the nick of time” .
@umeahalla3 жыл бұрын
It's a good one!
@GarthV4nBell4 жыл бұрын
The Kung-Fu apanda movies are unironically some of the best animated films I’ve watched. They’re a complete love-letter to the Wuxia genre, and the action scenes are tight and well animated. And don’t get me started on the actually well-written characters and dialogue. On top of that they’ve got great moral lessons for the little ones. They’re honestly some of my favorite films.
@rogueart91004 жыл бұрын
Agreed
@artaum56354 жыл бұрын
Villains are hit or miss though... Lord Shen is awesome Tai Lung is just a vengeful prick who only lost to Po because of plot armor and cartoon logic Kai is a regular boring dark lord type
@monzurrahman83074 жыл бұрын
The comedy is amazing too, especially given it's a kids' movie
@adrienneladd83754 жыл бұрын
you forgot the excellent music.
@asw6543 жыл бұрын
@@artaum5635 I liked Tai Lung the most out of the villains. He's smart and resourceful, and his character makes sense given that he was a kid getting a singular goal driven into him by Shifu.
@EwokWarrior3 жыл бұрын
As soon as he said "Im tired of romances I want some good friendships" I screamed in joy
@hiii46363 жыл бұрын
Same
@Stynkrat3 жыл бұрын
I’m a sucker for romances 😂
@DrDolan20003 жыл бұрын
I love me a good romance, but give me some man and woman just being bros; there's nothing wrong with that!
@EwokWarrior3 жыл бұрын
@@DrDolan2000 Exactly! I love seeing relationships like that especially when written well
@LethalByChoice2 жыл бұрын
Thing is it doesn't really matter whether you do romances or friendships, as long as you do them correctly. If you drop a book because someone did romance with someone instead of friendships, you're kinda going about it the wrong way.
@Melancholy_Scholar4 жыл бұрын
"Denethor's a great villain." "Who?" "Steward of Gondor, father of Boromir and Faramir, dies by jumping off a cliff while on fire." "Sorry, I don't know-" "Tomato guy." "Oh yeah, he's the worst."
@Metadaxe4 жыл бұрын
How is Denethor being bad at tomatoes the most memorable part of his character? Like at least once or twice a year I think about how he couldn't just eat a cherry tomato without making a huge mess. I didn't even realize until this video that other people felt the same way.
@paulb23064 жыл бұрын
@@Metadaxe because the internet,its random. They found something like a guy eating a tomato badly and the watchers felt uncomfortable by it. It's somewhat meme-able and it's funny because such a great written villain and character is being remembered as a tomato moron. Short answer, it's the internet, don't question it.
@gokbay30574 жыл бұрын
@@Metadaxe memes
@Metaphix4 жыл бұрын
I WILL NOT BOW TO THIS BASIC TABLE ETIQUETTE FROM THE NORTH
@onerandom6884 жыл бұрын
The utter disgust and horror has been burned into out memory.
@TheOnceandFutureJake4 жыл бұрын
Random Kung Fu Panda appreciation rant? INSTANT LIKE FROM ME, SIR!!
@natob63364 жыл бұрын
Same
@naughtyniffler4044 жыл бұрын
Totally! The Kung Fu Panda movies are highly underrated
@LinardsZ4 жыл бұрын
@@naughtyniffler404 1st movie is one of best 2nd and 3rd are good too.
@dj_koen12654 жыл бұрын
I recently rewatched that as well a few days ago even, and asp remembered how great It was If only i had an audience to share those thoughts with :p
@artaum56354 жыл бұрын
@@LinardsZ 1st had the best action and humor, 2nd had the best story and 3rd was just all around good except for the main villain Kai
@gerald112b4 жыл бұрын
When th Fellowship of the ring was formed back in 1953 little did Tolkien know he had created the first ever D&D party. Although in hindsight they could have done with a Cleric.
@terrible2094 жыл бұрын
four different fighters (two even picked the same subclass), one wizard, and four rouges that were starting at level one while the other five started at level ten. A horribly balanced party
@yoavshamir90554 жыл бұрын
Frodo: we are going to the land of evil, ruled by a dark lord and occupied by armies of orcs, all while hunted by high level undead. Shouldnt we take a cleric? Gandalf: nah, we will be fine Boromir:
@moanguspickard2494 жыл бұрын
@@terrible209 wouldnt it be 3 fighters wizzard 4 rogues (or 3 if Sam is more of lvl1 warrior) and a hunter/marksman ie. Legolas?
@joelcooper46774 жыл бұрын
Actually Aragorn is kinda of a ranger/cleric.
@yoavshamir90554 жыл бұрын
It is certainly better than the party of the hobbit: a rogue, a part time wizard, and 13 identical dwarf fighters
@TheBeccabus4 жыл бұрын
Everytime you say "love triangle" I can't help but think of Terrible Writing Advice
@Draber2b4 жыл бұрын
He would put it in the E tier xD
@calebmauer17514 жыл бұрын
I prefer a good rhombus of terror.
@caddydonstans1164 жыл бұрын
D. Draber *S
@thearcanehunter27364 жыл бұрын
I can't help but think about him either when I here love triangle, no matter where I hear it.
@jeffpotts61874 жыл бұрын
LOL! That was the FIRST thing that popped in my head as well.
@2wimpies5564 жыл бұрын
Daniel Greene: "Aragon is not Secret Royalty." Elrond: *Plan Failed*
@johnnythemachine69494 жыл бұрын
0-20 year old Aragorn was secret royalty. 87 year old Aragorn knows what he is and he wants to get sh*t done
@peneloperose50654 жыл бұрын
i want someone to write a satire book that includes every single trope in this list and makes it as cliche as possible.
@alastorcorvus3 жыл бұрын
So... Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth? not sure if satire, tho
@Challagar3 жыл бұрын
You mean like The Princess Bride?
@rayraffiki18563 жыл бұрын
Do you watch Terrible Writing Advice? I have a feeling you'll enjoy their videos
@brandonrl50402 жыл бұрын
Me right now writing a story with only tropes
@snichelsticks8653 Жыл бұрын
@@rayraffiki1856 or overly sarcastic productions trope talk
@Loiner_Leftie4 жыл бұрын
One of my favourite character tropes is the protag who's just tired of this shit. Goes well with the "old badass" and "too angry to die" tropes. Sam Vimes, Geralt, Granny Wetherwax and Kazuma Kiryu are some personal favourites.
@mirenda51604 жыл бұрын
Yes! This!
@volttur37114 жыл бұрын
Logen 9 fingers is my fav take on that trope
@Loiner_Leftie4 жыл бұрын
@@GhostBusters-wb4un I feel like Doomguy is more " done with this shit" than "tired of this shit" since he never gets exhausted by it, he is boundlessly passionate. But he's definitely a standout on the spectrum.
@Loiner_Leftie4 жыл бұрын
Also realised I omitted possibly my favourite example, Raziel from the Legacy of Kain series!
@cjs42474 жыл бұрын
I want to see a good third or half of a book develop a student/old master relationship only to kill off the student and have the grumpy old master save the world by themself instead
@darreideamos23094 жыл бұрын
"Every fantasy has an evil forest or a *swamp* " dark souls flashbacks
@TahoeNevada4 жыл бұрын
Darrei Deamos Everything is evil in a SoulsBorne game! 😂
@holyleech21594 жыл бұрын
Dark souls forest or swamps are straight up out to get you
@vitocorleone24134 жыл бұрын
Fuck farron keep
@loganj86294 жыл бұрын
Fuck blight-town all my homies hate blight-town
@jumpinjaggi81524 жыл бұрын
"Leaked: fromsoft's new game has a swamp in it!" "We know."
@PedroGarcia-jj2xs4 жыл бұрын
I had an idea for the prodigy trope, were the character is actually a master wizard whose pretending to be a student as a spy. The reason they act like an unrealistic prodigy is because they are prideful, and this gets the characters to figure him out
@MagizardInternet4 жыл бұрын
I feel like this is so easy to write badly, especially if this character is the protagonist or a protagonist-sided side character.
@PedroGarcia-jj2xs4 жыл бұрын
@@MagizardInternet the prodigy in this scenario is one of the antagonists
@MagizardInternet4 жыл бұрын
@@PedroGarcia-jj2xs That's fine loads easier then. The idea lends itself well to a prick, so antagonist is the way to go.
@volttur37114 жыл бұрын
I have anti prodigy idea where Ch is super powerfull but he do not have talent so he strugle to handle that power
@calebmauer17514 жыл бұрын
@@volttur3711 I think that's Carry On by Rainbow Rowell. S-tier power, E-tier skill, main character at magic school.
@sburbtube67663 жыл бұрын
Old mentor trope: S tier Old mentor dying trope: D tier
@paleo68292 жыл бұрын
Old mentor is actually the villain: S+ teir
@Aredel2 жыл бұрын
Old Mentor vs Fallen Apprentice: S+ Tier
@Jamdoe2 жыл бұрын
Old Mentor is Actually the villain, but his apprentice change his heart, but after that the Apprentice become the real villain: SS+ Tier
@yunaneomi Жыл бұрын
@@Jamdoe That legit sounds really nice, but I wonder if its been done before, because I have not seen it in anything I read lol. Any suggestions?
@nonono9194 Жыл бұрын
@@Jamdoe but then apprentice villain reveals that all along it was actually the old mentor that was the true villain all along SSS+
@VentingGragory4 жыл бұрын
Daniel: *puts Love Triangle to C tier* Terrible Writing Advice: "So it's war!"
@THEPELADOMASTER3 жыл бұрын
I would've put it in D honestly. I hate love triangles. It would have to be done so fucking perfectly for me to like it that it's not even fair to the author. I think it's a terrible trope
@Hoobastomp3 жыл бұрын
@@THEPELADOMASTER This video actually made me want to write a story with a love triangle as the main focus. The skeleton of it would be some Chosen One hero, raised basically in isolation to maintain some prophetic "purity" requirement by a cult, eventually being released to go fight the Dark Lord. Normal Act One fellowship-gathering ensues, but notably the first woman he ever sees is one of the other points of the triangle. Action-girl type - in fact, let's throw in that "I'm not like other girls" self-hatred in there as well. Make her an abrasive character. Like she's been transported here from the Wheel of Time world. Just constantly needling and talking down to the naive protagonist. Except he, being an stereotypical young man raised in isolation, can't see past his surging hormones and falls head over heels for her (bam! We got instant "love" in there as well). She doesn't take to his instant affection very well. Maybe we learn that this is because she was betrayed in the past. She doesn't want to get close to people. Maybe give her some external flaw that makes her think no one will "truly" love her, they just want to use her. All classic stuff. Act two rolls around, and another female character joins the party, maybe a magic user of some kind (you can even make her a prodigy, but that's not necessary). And this one isn't a flaming asshole. Treats people with respect, including the hero. Maybe the party splits up for a while, and she spends time alone with him. He realizes that hey, here's a person that doesn't treat me like dogshit. Wow, I like her just as much - in fact, I like her more! Except he feels really guilty about that. He thought he loved Action Girl, now he thinks the same way about Mage Girl. So here there's this massive source of inner conflict. And what's more, he's been raised to believe he needs to be morally perfect to accomplish this prophecy. The idea that he would "betray" his "love" starts eating him up inside. When the party regroups, Action Girl notices the new warmth between Mage Girl and Hero. And to her surprise, gets jealous. She had been warming up to the Hero before the split, and was missing his puppy love. And now, in front of her eyes, she's being betrayed again. Rejected again. She's angry and hurt, and starts to take it out on the Hero even more, acting like an even more colossal jackass. But we can see where it's coming from. The low point of her arc comes when she's commiserating with one of the other, uninvolved party members, about how she's being rejected because she's "not a pretty doll hanging off the Hero's arm" and gets told point blank, no, it's because you're an asshole. So, three characters, with two interesting arcs between them. The question is, what to do with the third. The obvious choice is to make her a traitor, an agent of the Dark Lord intent on betraying the party. I'm hesitant to do that, since it makes the whole Hero-Action Girl pair seem inevitable. Then again, having the Hero come around could be a nice capstone to Action Girl's arc, a nice redemption/maturation moment for her. You could twist it for comedy, by revealing she was actually married the entire time, or really an 800-year-old elf or something that was completely uninterested in the Hero but just had a friendly personality. The supposed "love triangle" was just the Hero and Action Girl being super self-conscious and jealous, respectively. Not sure how interesting that would be in practice though. The Hero could, of course, just not end up with anyone, but that seems really dickish to the people that get invested in the romance aspect of the novel, and it seems like that would have to be a large part of this novel to do this particular subplot justice. Would need some more development. Too bad I have too many books I want to write already.
@Aredel2 жыл бұрын
It’s not even a triangle. It’s a love segmented line.
@colorblockpoprocks6973 Жыл бұрын
@@Aredel THANK YOU. what most people call love triangles is just a love *angle* because damn near never are the two (often male) love interests also interested in each other! the romantic prospects have to be connected to each other to imply the third line completing the triangle!!!!
@henrikh30894 жыл бұрын
Tier list idea: favorite "monsters" in fantasy, dragons, trolls, giant spiders etc. Could even be all magical creatures. Some are more generic than others, but they can have small quirks or twists about them which makes them interesting.
@calrex45134 жыл бұрын
Age of fire is a good one
@willichtenstein70714 жыл бұрын
You want monsters? SCP has monsters. Like 'SCP 939: With many voices'.
@hailghidorah25364 жыл бұрын
Personally, Dragons, Wendigo and Genies all the way.
@paleriderpalehorse554 жыл бұрын
Man so much of what makes Witcher interesting is all the subversions/plays/twists on established ideas of fantasy monsters and the deep cuts to European myths and lore.
@ramprasath80914 жыл бұрын
I always wanted to write a story in which the so called "Demons" are actually the nice guys and the real bad ones are the gods and humans. Any ideas?
@riakm9214 жыл бұрын
In a way, "secret royalty" is a manifestation of the "chosen one" trope. Also, Denethor is much more of a tragic character than an "evil" one.
@karlfranzemperorofmandefil55474 жыл бұрын
Yep the Dark lord drove him mad. And seen what he could do to Saruman it's a great sign for Denathors morals that he only became that bad instead of getting fully corrupted.
@TahoeNevada4 жыл бұрын
Riakm Especially the way he was portrayed in the movies. Very reminiscent of King Lear, Othello and Macbeth.
@Juhani1394 жыл бұрын
Agreed, Denethor wasn't evil. Comes out better in the books.
@genghisgalahad84654 жыл бұрын
Yes, he's tragic...Until he tries to burn you alive and runs RIGHT PAST the WATER FOUNTAIN and throws himself over the edge and falls....while BURNING. (Movie Denethor)
@genghisgalahad84654 жыл бұрын
@@Juhani139 crazy human fireball in the movies...
@piecookies34884 жыл бұрын
I love the secret royalty troupe because it’s absolutely hilarious. Some of my favorite example: The Barbie nutcracker movie “Clara u r the sugarplum princess” This Clara being a princess adds nothing but its just such a hilarious and awkward addition that makes me laugh. Any time there is secret royalty in a story I call my sister and yell “Clara u r the sugar plum princess” at her.
@silverhawk10454 жыл бұрын
I rewatched that movie recently and oh boy, its fucking knee-breakingly hilarious when that happens
@dannygld233 жыл бұрын
Seeing these tropes and realizing how well Tolkien did most of them is crazy
@trewic86783 жыл бұрын
They also became true tropes largely due to tolkien
@Liam-ve1ir3 жыл бұрын
Let's go niners
@dannygld233 жыл бұрын
@@Liam-ve1ir TreyDay
@Liam-ve1ir3 жыл бұрын
@@dannygld23 Trey Area lfg
@FatPankakes1013 жыл бұрын
The loveable giant trope is one of my faves. Hagrid and Hodor being the most iconic ones maybe.
@Ithinkso112 жыл бұрын
hold the door
@SanguineSidereal4 жыл бұрын
My favorite subversion of the not like other girls trope is in Well of Ascension. Paraphrased: Vin: "I'm not like other girls" Tindwyl: *Eye Roll* "No shit, everyone is unique." Edit: Important context Vin is anxious about the fact that she is different. It's not something she views as being better.
@benjaminthibieroz41554 жыл бұрын
subversion done right indeed. Alos the fact that this difference came from life and not a pure choice of the character made out of contempt.
@raquelmarcalsantos4 жыл бұрын
And it’s only in THoA that she actually acknowledges that she CAN be both a fierce warrior AND a noble woman who enjoys makeup, gowns and jewelry. I just love this trope in the series!
@sebastianwesterlund87774 жыл бұрын
“Vin isn't...like other women." Tindwyl raised an eyebrow, her voice softening slightly. "I think that the more women you come to know, Your Majesty, the more you'll find that statement applies to all of them.”
@muskatDR4 жыл бұрын
Vin and Mistborn are amazing
@guycross4934 жыл бұрын
And sometimes there are those Karen types, where all of them are more or less the same.
@LuckyDragon2894 жыл бұрын
"They turned out to be royalty all along! ...It often doesn't even largely affect the story in some ways; it's just there to be there and be cool" *Looks pointedly at Jon Snow*
@perezo274 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing, I'm surprised he didnt even mentioned it
@marcusfraser27904 жыл бұрын
You referring to the TV show Jon Snow right? Cause we honestly don't know how GRRM will use Jon in the upcoming books. If GRRM utilizes Jon's plotline well then I daresay it'll be fricking fantastic and raise the series even higher.
@annie-il9dj4 жыл бұрын
well, he’s not in the books (yet, at least).
@vegeta46932144 жыл бұрын
@@annie-il9dj Jon is one of my favorite characters, but i'd rather he stays dead than having the same fate he had in the series
@ANT96-x8d4 жыл бұрын
I got a Question. What are some really good examples of a High Fantasy series that has these qualities?: -A fantasy world that is its own mythology -Epic fight scenes and wars -Intense magic battles -A hugely expanded magic system -The archetypical hero’s journey -Dragons, Unicorns, Griffins, Sea Monsters, Phoenixes, and other known mythical beasts -Stunningly beautiful and smart female characters and love interests -Romantic story arcs that involve love and sex -Conflicts involving politics -Themes and elements and faith and religion -Spiritual and psychological themes -Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Ghouls, Vampires, Merfolk, Fairies, Centaurs, and other non-human races -Different languages that are spoken by non-human languages -A feared and all-powerful dark lord who is after the main hero -the archetypal wise wizard -a community of wizards and sorceresses -Dark themes of tragedy, corruption, betrayal, and genocide -A tone that turns into being dark and gritty while always being mature from the start -Characters that are realistic and relatable in personality -Light and positive themes of faith, love, friendship, loyalty, honor, sacrifice and optimism
@glenndavy93304 жыл бұрын
Favorite tropes: the band of misfits (like the fellowship but specifically derpy)! And Re-enforcements arrive, in the final battle when all is lost, and then the previous factions that the hero has helped show up and turn the tide.
@erichvondonitz53253 жыл бұрын
Tbh, if I was the leader of the army that is getting raped by the enemy and my allies finally comes in the last second. I would be hella pissed and relieved
@kapanimations2 жыл бұрын
I used to do that when I was younger in elementary school writing simple short stories that usually went like "When he (main character) thought all was done, suddenly (army from someone he helped earlier) shows up and they kill all of the bad guys and they live happily ever after-" you get it
@lennertvandyck51854 жыл бұрын
I just realized how hard it is to write a Fantasy story without clichés...
@anival95763 жыл бұрын
The tricky part is that they are only clichés if used poorly. These tropes define the genre. That's the tricky part of hating on some tropes and not others. Some ARE overused. It's probably a good idea to steer clear... until they been off the scene for a while. Then you circle back around. A lot of the most popular books don't follow popular opinion--they shape it.
@THEPELADOMASTER3 жыл бұрын
It's because there's only so many ways a story can go to make it interesting. When you break down the fundamental strokes of every plot, a lot of them share a lot of things. Most stories have been written already. You just have to find a way to make it interesting
@conor64363 жыл бұрын
Trope =\= cliché
@judeconnor-macintyre98742 жыл бұрын
Pretty much impossible.
@vullord6662 жыл бұрын
Its kinda impossible to write anything without cliché. Clichés are pretty inherently in writing because they basically just translate to the assumptions we all make on a daily basis to get through the day. Our brains are literally wired for pattern recognition and it’s because we recognize patterns that we can get through the day. For example, I wake up and feel a rumbling in my stomach. I know because of pattern recognition (and basic survival instinct) that the next step is to make or buy food to eat (or if you’re me ignore it until it goes away which I also know kinda works). Clichés are just common patterns we recognize. They aren’t inherently good or bad (as stated), but it depends on how they’re used. Take plot armor for example with the broader definition including plot convenience and etc you can’t not have it. Some things NEED to happen to advance the plot or story or character growth. You CAN affect how much of those things feel overly forced vs organic/natural plot, but that’s it. Let’s say the big bad kills the chosen one asap, okay how did they know they were the chosen one? Did no one else know? Why wasn’t the chosen one being protected or hidden if it’s something you can know? How are they the chosen one if they’re defenseless this early in their life? Why wouldn’t the chosen one be made or chosen AFTER they’ve passed X trials or trained enough? And it goes on and on. Eventually we all know the answer is just gonna be “because the author/story needed it to happen” and that’s fine. The problem is when that’s the answer far too often and its far too glaringly obvious.
@Your_Mossad_Handler4 жыл бұрын
I like the dark lord trope because it seems like there’s a flood anti-villains and anti-heroes right now across genres. Some clean good-vs-evil escapism can be comforting. I get enough gritty reality/moral ambiguity in real life.
@alexanderfyock90424 жыл бұрын
Brandon Sanderson book or character tier list!
@TiliaHaggstrom4 жыл бұрын
He already did one for his books, but i'd love a tier ranking of Sanderson characters!!
@coraurum38354 жыл бұрын
The stick js S tier hands down
@shughes57784 жыл бұрын
Dude a character tier list would need about 100 episodes
@Ravi9A4 жыл бұрын
Dew it
@carlsmith45684 жыл бұрын
There better be a Dalinar-tier above S.
@lorawaye4 жыл бұрын
One trope that I don’t see enough is the opposite of insta love- friends to lovers. I automatically care more because when it’s done well there is the relational depth that comes from actually knowing each other. Enemies to lovers is also good, but harder to pull off
@OrionSeas4 жыл бұрын
Enemies to lovers always feels cheap to me because it seems to be one of the most popular tropes among fandoms, such as Zuko - Katara or... Well, actually that's the biggest one I can think of. I see it with like Harry Potter and Draco, too, though. I'm sure it can be done well, but it just screams Fanon OTP™ to me. Friends to lovers has been done very well, though. My first thought was the Percy Jackson series, where I think Riordan did a good job taking his time to build the relationship. Somewhere in between friends to lovers and InstaLove™ is the relationship where the characters obviously feel some attraction pretty early on, but their relationship still takes time to develop into something truly romantic.
@arthasmenethil72084 жыл бұрын
@@OrionSeas did you forget Yggrite and Jon snow? It was done beautifully
@robotgalaxy41684 жыл бұрын
@@OrionSeas Zuko and Katara don't fit that tho. I do think that it can be written properly tho if you just have time in a story to do so. The only problem is that typically, stories don't have enough time to show the villainous be evil and then not only change for the better but also be in a relatiomship with someone on the enemy side.
@starburst984 жыл бұрын
Not quite enemies, more like antagonistic. Midna and link from twilight princess. At the start she clearly thinks of link as nothing but a servant but by the end it can easily be interpreted that she fell in love with the mute lug.
@jacobbau83284 жыл бұрын
Enimies to lovers is for bad fanfic writers imo. Doesn’t make much sense. The farthest enemy becoming close trope id go is enemies to friends.
@rodrigo37324 жыл бұрын
Kung fu panda 2 is great,honestly.
@DanielGreeneReviews4 жыл бұрын
AND 3!
@benjaminthibieroz41554 жыл бұрын
The 3 was very disapointing to me, but 2 is great indeed
@coldermusic27294 жыл бұрын
I hated the third movie, but the other two are borderline perfect
@sullivandmitry14164 жыл бұрын
Daniel Greene Three was not good. It was dulled down for kids. Like, the first 2 were dark but kiddish. You could enjoy the stupid moments but also liked the serious dark moments. The third just lost that an went full childish mode.
@HueingBerry4 жыл бұрын
I actually enjoy the third movie but I can agree that it is far from 1 and 2. 2 is my favorite because the villain is made for Po, whereas 1 is Shifu's villain and 3 is Oogway's villain.
@ironlion454 жыл бұрын
"The Remote village" THAT is probably the most overused trope imo. IIRC, Terry Pratchett even poked fun of it in "Equal Rites" back in the 80's, describing the village the protagonist came from as a place so small and unremarkable, that it only existed so that someone could come from it. Then there's "Secret Royalty" and Carrot... Come to think of it, a lot of these tropes got the Discworld cheek.
@Meichrob74 жыл бұрын
I’d argue some D&D adventures are the closest you kinda get to “no plot armor” fantasy. There’s still a degree of it since the players are all generally stronger and luckier than average, but they can actually die in times where no one wants or expects them to and that to me means they mostly are free of plot armor. Of course this is only true if people aren’t fudging dice rolls.
@nemo98644 жыл бұрын
You step into a large room with a small crevasse in the middle. You jump across the crevasse. *Roll... 1* The room collapses on you.
@mr.stuffdoer84834 жыл бұрын
I’d say the story that most closely replicated the tension of D&D is Goblin Slayer. Like, for a show with basically no character death I am never not on edge.
@THEPELADOMASTER3 жыл бұрын
It's also free of the chosen one, since... The chosen one can't die and will stop the bad guy. And in D&D anyone can die at any time and anyone can finish off the bad guy. Now that I think about it, I guess instead of chosen one you could have chosen *ones* but still, the risk of death is still there.
@Former_Halo_Fan3 жыл бұрын
@@THEPELADOMASTER There can only be one Chosen One. It's in the name.
@THEPELADOMASTER3 жыл бұрын
@@Former_Halo_Fan that's why I said instead of one the chosen could be the whole party and have chosen *ones* since in dnd you don't have a single protagonist
@rebeccamedusasrockgarden47814 жыл бұрын
Dark forest, or at least magic forest is one of my faves. Give me Mirkwood, The Old Forest, Fangorn, or the Woods from Uprooted anytime. Secret royalty can be done well, so long as it includes tall red haired dwarfs.
@pranavprabhu86094 жыл бұрын
Carrot Ironfoundersson! One of my favs!
@volttur37114 жыл бұрын
First law handles royality trope well imo
@the_corvid974 жыл бұрын
Warhammer Fantasy Battle has dope Dark Forests.
@Al-nj8ow4 жыл бұрын
yeah I‘m really intimidated now because I am going for a secret royalty trope in the first book of my series but it‘s hinted at
@ANT96-x8d4 жыл бұрын
Question. What is a good High Fantasy series that has these qualities?: -A fantasy world that is its own mythology -Epic fight scenes and wars -Intense magic battles -A hugely expanded magic system -The archetypical hero’s journey -Dragons, Unicorns, Griffins, Sea Monsters, Phoenixes, and other known mythical beasts -Stunningly beautiful and smart female characters and love interests -Romantic story arcs that involve love and sex -Conflicts involving politics -Themes and elements and faith and religion -Spiritual and psychological themes -Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Ghouls, Vampires, Merfolk, Fairies, Centaurs, and other non-human races -Different languages that are spoken by non-human languages -A feared and all-powerful dark lord who is after the main hero -the archetypal wise wizard -a community of wizards and sorceresses -Dark themes of tragedy, corruption, betrayal, and genocide -A tone that turns into being dark and gritty while always being mature from the start -Characters that are realistic and relatable in personality -Light and positive themes of faith, love, friendship, loyalty, honor, sacrifice and optimism
@hhoi82254 жыл бұрын
"I don't like feminine products." I don't think that word means what you think it means. ;)
@danasalinger52474 жыл бұрын
I was totally coming to leave this comment bahahaha. My mind was like where is he going with this?
@JayStryerTheDeadWizard4 жыл бұрын
what does it mean then?
@danasalinger52474 жыл бұрын
Feminine products are period products. Tampons and the like.
@changelingreader144 жыл бұрын
The problem with saying that is some people think that, but I've only heard of tampons, pads, etc. referred to as 'feminine *hygiene* products,' so feminine products is completely fine. I hear that and think more of nail polish and makeup stuff among other things that are associated with femininity.
@hhoi82254 жыл бұрын
@@changelingreader14 Except that those products are not marketed that way and people who use them do not refer to them that way. Nor are nail polish and makeup used exclusively by people who use tampons etc.
@thefinderskeep16804 жыл бұрын
Secret Royalty is just overplayed and outdone even when they are like hey I know you thought it was this character but bam the character I forgot to develop Prince 👑
@TheOnceandFutureJake4 жыл бұрын
I'd love to have an inversion of that, honestly. A member of royalty finding out their heritage is a lie, and their life comes crashing down.
@thefinderskeep16804 жыл бұрын
The Once and Future Jake I think that could work on a lot of different levels but it would be a huge development with little payoff if we simply invert the trope. I think hidden lineage works better doesn’t have to be royal lineage but where the character and reader know it but the author moves to a place where the other characters experience the reveal and if done well you include the reader in on the surprise party.
@TheOnceandFutureJake4 жыл бұрын
@@thefinderskeep1680 Well, I was more thinking about the journey you could take with that kind of inversion. It isn't supposed to be set up for big payoff, but more the surprise catalyst to a downward spiral. I definitely don't think that using a trope like that would end happily. So maybe some kind of character study of a person losing everything and how that journey shapes them in unexpected ways.
@ShadowWolf13074 жыл бұрын
@@TheOnceandFutureJake The decoy princess by dawn cook. You're welcome. (its about a girl finding out she was only a decoy for assassins bought off a beggar while the real princes was swaped with her in childhood and send away to a save place. Neither of them knew - until an political marriage and a war need the truth to come out. Welp) Edit: as a bonus, the magic system of this world was really cool too. Like its kinda based on poisoning yourself as far as my memory recalls (its been a lot of years since i read this, but i stll remember a lot bc it has a lot of very original ideas!)
@thefinderskeep16804 жыл бұрын
The Once and Future Jake yeah we saw that with Loki finding out he wasn’t a Prince of Asgard but born a frost giant. I like the character study portion and yeah it would be totally a world crashing down moment for sure
@nikolasslead65823 жыл бұрын
"Let people be friends." THANK YOU!! YES!
@godzival49112 жыл бұрын
0:00-0:30 Intro 0:31-1:39 Plot Armour 1:40-2:31 Remote Village 2:32-3:33 Secret Royalty 3:34-4:24 The Chosen One 4:25-5:03 The Dark Lord 5:04-5:49 Mcguffin Item 5:50-6:42 The Fellowship 6:43-7:24 "I Am Not Like Other Girls" 7:25-7:45 Instant Love 7:46-8:28 The Evil King 8:29-8:41 The Good King 8:42-8:59 Magical City 9:00-9:45 The Prodigy 9:46-10:40 Wise/Mentor Wizard 10:41-11:21 The Dark Forest 11:22-12:20 The Love Triangle 12:21-12:36 The Epic World 12:37-13:38 The Quest 13:39-14:10 The Elves Race 14:11-15:06 Random Horror Sequence 15:07-15:41 The Cannon Fodder 15:42-16:16 Grand Epic Battle 16:17-17:10 The Final Showdown 17:11-17:52 outro
@Wh4tsupy04 жыл бұрын
I feel like trying to divide tropes into tiers is impossible because in any given author's hands any trope can be either amazing or terrible. That said we all have tropes we love and hate. Screw secret royalty, but gimme some innocent farmboy.
@MrParkerman64 жыл бұрын
No! Wrong! Liar reveal can NEVER be done right- no matter who is doing it. There are several tropes that suck so bad no one can ever do them right as far as I am concern ed and should never be used again.
@silverhawk10454 жыл бұрын
@@MrParkerman6 Whats liar reveal?
@Real_Genji3 жыл бұрын
@@MrParkerman6 people lie all the time in real life tho...
@levtokol86493 жыл бұрын
I feel like Daniel's ranking by likeliness to be good for a story. The Dark Lord isn't low B because Daniel doesn't have particular fondness for it, he's a huge fan of LotR and WoT, it's because he thinks it doesn't have as high of a success rate as the Mentor or even the Dark Forest. I think he's going for exactly what you're talking about. Sure, any trope can be executed well, but some need more work on the author's part than others. As he says, the Fifth Sorceress is garbage, but even there the mentor was able to elevate it a few millimetres.
@shakira42233 жыл бұрын
@@silverhawk1045 i dunno if u still want this answer but imma say it anyway. Liar reveal is when usually the lies told by protagonist are revealed. It can be any type of lies. In How to train your dragon, Hiccup kinda puts up a facade that he's a good dragon hunter when really he's the opposite. In Alladin, he lies that he's a prince when he's not. Gulliver tells the little men that he's a savior in his county. When these lies are all revealed, everyone is, in most cases, disappointed. And drama unfolds. This is lie reveal. Nd it can be annoying sometimes.
@joaoalves93304 жыл бұрын
Old wise wizard needs to be in S tier. Old wise wizards are awesome! Edit: I knew it!
@darkbringer14404 жыл бұрын
Depends what exactly you mean by plot armor. If it's "protagonist is in a situation where he could be killed but he comes out unharmed with no logical, In-Universe explanation" just because the plot needs him to survive then that's almost always D tier. If you mean this character survives to the end because the story is about the guy who made it all the way and not about the guy that died halfway to the end so naturally, he survives against the odds then that can definitely be A tier.
@lordofdarkness42044 жыл бұрын
Say our main character is a really good swordsman who manages to fight his way out of
@benjaminthibieroz41554 жыл бұрын
i don't see the difference between the two, honestly. In order for plot armor to work, the character must have a minimum amount of skills, wits and preparation to escape death in the situation he encounters (also people ready to protect him/her for satisfying reasons).
@BoredMarcus4 жыл бұрын
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 There is a big difference. Let's say we are in a war. Not 100% of the people die in a war., Someone lives through it, sometimes through sheer luck, not even skills necessary. Say there is a plane crash, 150 people die, 3 live, just because they sat in the right seat. Want to write a book about survivors guilt? Would you tell a story from the perspective of the 150 dead people? This is NOT plot armor, we just follow the story of the survivors. It can become plot armor, if there are obstacles no one would live through, but they do(3 plane crashes in a row? ;)). In the end it just comes down to how this is done. If you can make the reader forget that we all know the protagonist will live through it, you've done it right.
@thearcanehunter27364 жыл бұрын
@@BoredMarcus Exactly, a stories written about someone who went through interesting things, and who saw them play out. No one else is the MC because they're boring.
@benjaminthibieroz41554 жыл бұрын
@@BoredMarcus You're right about luck, it's an essential factor. Problem is: it's not a factor the reader will easily accept. Sheer luck is realistic but can look like cheating. Also, though i understand what you mean with the second case, it doesn't classify as plot armor to me. Plot armor apply to obstacles over the course of the story. In your example, survival is the mandatory premise of the story.
@trevorstone90604 жыл бұрын
“I’m tired of everything being romance” is so true.
@crowickedone40374 жыл бұрын
I love the "goon turned independent antagonist" trope.
@Vimalth4 жыл бұрын
"Epic world" is a trope? Why? That's like saying "humans are a fantasy trope".
@thelasthandbook67044 жыл бұрын
I guess you could write an novel of Urban Fantasy without an epic world, but even there it would be a bit difficult, since a lot of UF has portal type elements, from Dresden Files on down. 🤔
@coldermusic27294 жыл бұрын
Well, there are a lot of non-epic fantasies that are still amazing. But yes, it is a a lot more difficult, and I get what you’re trying to say.
@sullivandmitry14164 жыл бұрын
Depends on a very built up world like Tolkien’s or a small world like in The Last Apprentice series where the world is kinda small and everything outside of the areas where the story is going on, doesn’t matter. Small worlds work well when used well.
@HenriqueRJchiki4 жыл бұрын
There's a DND campaign that takes place entirely within a city
@swine134 жыл бұрын
Because "trope" is another old word that's coming back into fashion despite the fact that everyone is apparently too busy to look up what it means in this context.
@teifan66744 жыл бұрын
The Ring is not actually a Mcguffin, because it has a function in the story - as in, it DOES something, it has uses and effects. An item in a story is only a mcguffin if its ONLY function is "people want it"
@aalin57014 жыл бұрын
True mcguffins are such a useful trope too. It provides a clear direction/motivation without needing to justify the 'why'. The criminals want the pearl/cat statue/ left glove because it grants power/wealth, great now let's move on to seeing how the charecters act and react. It gives momentum but allows us to really focus on the 'who' and 'how' of the charecters. It's one of the reason Hitchcock films are so good. We don't really care about what exactly the charecters are trying to do (run off with lots of money) it's much more about their emotions, ways of handling stress, interaction with obstacles, dreams etc.
@Kikilang604 жыл бұрын
Yeah, the One Ring wasn't a Mcguffin in Lord of the Rings. We have been told, "Power corupts, absolute power curupts absulutely." This was the central theme of Lord of the Rings. We see all kinds of characters in Tolkien's work. There might kings, and the lowest of the low. Power corupted them all. I've alway argued that Gollem was the hero of Lord of the Rings. Yes he was corupted, but he always controled the ring, they ring never controled him. You could say, Lord of the Ring was a story about an Evil ring was held captive, but escaped. The ring tried to be free, but in the end, it was captured, and destroyed by the weakest, and lowest of people.
@tincanmaniac19314 жыл бұрын
A better example of a mcguffin would be the army of the dead, though it's more of a mcguffin in the movies than the books.
@sullivandmitry14164 жыл бұрын
Still a McGuffin. That’s not a bad title I mean the ring was one of the first so who cares.
@MrParkerman64 жыл бұрын
Just cuz something has a use doesn't make it any less of a MacGuffin, dumbass.
@grkpektis3 жыл бұрын
my personal favorite trope in any story is when the humans are scarier/ more evil than the monsters. I know it's overused but I love it
@erichvondonitz53253 жыл бұрын
It is, tbh, entirely accurate knowing there are animals scarier than us but we can be even more scary
@matthewsteele993 жыл бұрын
I honestly hate it at this point
@SiGuy18_3 жыл бұрын
The red queen series be like, “hold my beer, imma take all of these tropes”
@Slayerlord134 жыл бұрын
There's a big difference between a character *having* plot armour and that plot armour becoming obvious to the reader. It's the latter that people generally have a problem with.
@samuelleask11324 жыл бұрын
Interesting. Could we have an example? :)
@patrick_dy3r4 жыл бұрын
Samuel Leask Game of Thrones Seasons 7-8
@ginogatash40304 жыл бұрын
@@samuelleask1132 a subtle instance of plot armor would be a character managing to escape through luck or something like that, while the more annoying kind of plot armor is when a character is being shot at by a trillion archers/snipers and MAYBE they only get hit on the shoulder at worst, which is annoying because it's like there's a switch that turns the enemy forces into incompetent idiots whenever the MC is around. but even more annoying than plot armor is plot de-armor, which is pretty much when a character gets stabbed THROUGH THEIR FUCKING ARMOR, with normal weapons.
@Arrica1013 жыл бұрын
@@samuelleask1132 The single worst plot armour i have ever seen is June/Offred not being killed ever in the handmaids tale. People get hung drawn and quartered all over the place for the most minor infraction and she is just strutting around cause mayhem and literally nothing bad happening. How my girlfriend managed to get me to watch 4 seasons of the utter garbage is beyond me.
@paulrizzuto124 жыл бұрын
Magic school didn't make the cut here which makes me sad. Probably one of my favourite tropes.
@TiffanyRussell4 жыл бұрын
Ooh yeah, this is a good one
@DS-mi9ru4 жыл бұрын
The One Ring isn't a McGuffin, it's more like a character and definitely has a very large effect on the story. It corrupts everything it touches and that is the centre part of Lotr. You can't replace it with anything else, it can only be a ring (which can be worn) thus it isn't a mcguffin
@zachhecita4 жыл бұрын
Can it be an amulet or an armband?
@MrParkerman64 жыл бұрын
@D S You literally described a Macguffin, dumbass. The rings are Macguffins, dumbass. Get over it.
@richardnixon24454 жыл бұрын
@@MrParkerman6 that's not the definition of a macguffin
@crystalross22843 жыл бұрын
@@zachhecita A Mgguffin can be a person. Princess Peach in Mario Bros is a Mgguffin.
@refoliation2 жыл бұрын
I actually think it is more like an object than a character. But like a magic object. Because it is made of metal and doesn’t say anything. Kind of like how in woody Allen movies NYC is a city and not a character because it is made of buildings and doesn’t say anything.
@Jaasau4 жыл бұрын
Notice how your favorite tropes all fit in perfectly with the Hero’s Journey? Maybe that’s why they are great; because they are primeval aspects of the human experience?
@akap4 жыл бұрын
You forgot "best friend/side character unnecessary sacrifice in completely survivable situation." I'm lookin at you, Bob Newby, Just. Fucking. Turn. And run. D tier.
@carniethedat70712 жыл бұрын
If an author's going to play the Useless Sacrifice card, they really have to let the sacrifice mean something first, even for an instant. When it's revealed to be ultimately useless in the large scale, make it affect the surviving characters. It can be done well, but so many people have a needless sacrifice just because a pre-written plot calls for it without understanding the reason it happened or the effect it had on everyone. Even when Jorge-052's sacrifice was undercut within a minute of a single cutscene, you still felt like he was justified in giving himself up to detonate the slipspace drive. Carter even says, "He died thinking he just saved the planet. We should all be so lucky." Please, PLEASE, can authors stop including stuff without making it mean something?
@athas654 жыл бұрын
Just wanted to note: the One Ring and Callendor are not really McGuffins, since their special abilities are important to the plot (Callendor is more of a McGuffin in the third book, but not in later ones)
@nicthebull4 жыл бұрын
It isn't really a mcguffins in the 3 book because it doesn't really do anything other than forfill the prophecy
@andrewdiaz35294 жыл бұрын
@@nicthebull That's what makes it a Mcguffin in the 3rd book. It's only purpose at that point was that people wanted it and wanted to fulfill a prophecy
@nicthebull4 жыл бұрын
@@andrewdiaz3529 I've misunderstood the meaning of the term then 😅
@hckytwn31924 жыл бұрын
Yes, thank you... the one ring is definitely not a McGuffin
@andrewdiaz35294 жыл бұрын
@@hckytwn3192 Yeah the ring is basically a character all of its own. Hello Future Me did a video about it, I didn't remember it all as I'm not a big Lord of the Rings fan but I feel it's good.
@soulsamurai69144 жыл бұрын
Love me some Tier List!! + Tropes are always fun to discuss!!
@thefinderskeep16804 жыл бұрын
Ahh love the trope lists. Definitely a video for authors to watch and digest. Your insight is always epic.
@ajackass59503 жыл бұрын
I think Azula in Avatar The Last Air Bender is a near perfect example of a prodigy character. She may be an amazing fire bender but it's because her father would only show her love when she succeeded and surpassed her peers. As a result her mental instability festers and became uncontrollable, eventually crippling her before she gradually clawed her way to a more stable insanity. She may have been nearly unsurpassed in skill but consequently she lost everything and her potential for a normal life was destroyed.
@tobiassalisbury245 Жыл бұрын
Daniel: these are my favorite tropes Lord of the Rings: *uses every A, B and S tier trope*
@americanchic11014 жыл бұрын
Fellowship, especially found family is my favorite trope. I eat that s*** up.
@TiffanyRussell4 жыл бұрын
Absolutely agree with a fellowship being in S tier. And I am a huge fan of a quest or journey in fantasy. And I think there’s important distinctions to be made between high tier, well done or not, and being overused or not.
@WormInsideTheApple4 жыл бұрын
My favorite tropes: -enemy turned into mc's companion to go on a journey together. Basically hostile to friend. -Love interest that fought together with the mc -isekais (it's so overused but i still like it) -antagonist experiencing something wholesome -kind characters turning berserk after enemy hurts their loved ones -mentor figure decides to teach mc even though they didn't want to at first -mc picking up a student to teach -mc's friends getting their spotlight and more chara development at the end fight -after endings
@borb56634 жыл бұрын
Agreed! I especially would like to see more main characters being mentors/teachers. Often protagonists are the ones being tought things, so I find it interesting to see them in different roles - in particular if the main character starts off as a student and turns into a teacher as the story unfolds.
@sagephil4 жыл бұрын
Isekai is usually so bad yet so good that every time i read anything with an actual publisher i feel like I'm reading LotR.
@TiffanyRussell4 жыл бұрын
I love everything on your list
@MrWhangdoodles4 жыл бұрын
I love myself some isekais. I generally like escapist fantasy and now that it jumped into the Western sphere of writing I see more interesting uses, like a doctor just being isekaid into a fantasy realm and turning into a prophet.
@benjaminthibieroz41554 жыл бұрын
- mc's love interest also being the mentor and the two of them fighting side by side as equal badasses
@rome81804 жыл бұрын
I think the quest is an excellent way to lead coherence to your story. You establish immediate stakes, gets characters united toward a common goal, and are able to introduce your wider world in a natural way.
@jxomxo3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, one trope in fantasy that gets sooo under my skin is the “evil = ugly (or not traditionally attractive)” trope. I can see it done well in some stories such as LOTR with the orcs being used (perhaps corrupted by Sauron) or Redwall with the more brutish animals trying to conquer the humble smaller animals, but most of the time it feels very unnecessary, and even perhaps insulting, as if a character cannot be good unless they’re beautiful or traditionally attractive. I’d love to see a story subvert this in the future or something like that.
@thrownswordpommel73933 жыл бұрын
The 300 movie : this sign can't stop me cause I can't read
@colorblockpoprocks6973 Жыл бұрын
i mean the alternative is "evil = pretty" and that itself is also sort of overused in my opinion, but in another way? people know that one is more predisposed to judge someone negatively if they are unkempt, unclean, disheveled, unsightly. often, the trope is subverted for a twist villain being "* gasp * the attractive one ?? but the old hag and her glass eye and her creepy leering totally had us convinced!" im tempted to say that this subversion is more common than the trope you mentioned, at least due to modern example, but maybe thats just because of the ham-fisted moral lesson of "beauty is skin deep" that's always tacked onto this subversion? it kinda makes it stick out like a sore thumb anytime i witness it lol
@neilpatrick15534 жыл бұрын
One of the best subversion of the secret royalty is Jezal from First Law.
@unprofessionalcritic31074 жыл бұрын
True. It was done in a way it felt like as if Joe Abercrombie was mocking the secret royalty trope.
@calebmauer17514 жыл бұрын
Man, what tropes didn't he subvert in First Law? *****SPOILERS***** He subverts fighting tournaments, wizard mentors, quests, evil torturers, instant love, Helm's Deep style last stands, and probably many more I can't remember.
@alexquin40014 жыл бұрын
@@calebmauer1751 He didn't really subvert fighting tournaments as almost all fighting tournaments have a twist to them.
@calebmauer17514 жыл бұрын
@@alexquin4001 It could be that they're just all subverted these days. I don't know cause now I can't remember any except from that Brent Weeks book where the main character wins one by cheating.
@vedkedia4 жыл бұрын
Or from blade runner 2048 he was the clone
@brycemattson49134 жыл бұрын
I feel like Ender’s Game is a prodigy done really well, and it feels justified in context.
@slewp4 жыл бұрын
love this channel man
@slewp4 жыл бұрын
magic city for life
@C.f0013 жыл бұрын
I just came here after watching your video 😂
@thetruggalo6933 жыл бұрын
Secret royalty done well: Pan's Labyrinth.
@EJ-bn3tc3 жыл бұрын
I mean it’s questionable if it’s even real so idk if that counts strictly
@finth00784 жыл бұрын
The book "The False Prince" actually pulls off secret royalty pretty well
@juliaolson66963 жыл бұрын
yes i was just thinking this!!
@e443productions94 жыл бұрын
Lol I didn’t even realize evil swamp was a trope lmao. Writing a fantasy book thinking you are somewhat original be like:
@thesaintzor6252 жыл бұрын
It's most probable that your idea won't be original and unique. Don't fret on it. The execution is what nails the trope.
@e443productions92 жыл бұрын
@@thesaintzor625 Yeah that's very much true. Here's to hoping my editing phase will boost that sequence up
@thesaintzor6252 жыл бұрын
@@e443productions9 Best wishes. I have finally started writing the actual story for a world I have been building for 2 years and hope to execute some tropes well and subvert some.
@e443productions92 жыл бұрын
@@thesaintzor625 Good luck to you too!
@imakefilms1234 жыл бұрын
Kung Fu panda is incredible. And the sequel when he throws back the canon ball! Love kung fu panda.
@thomasmatherly61093 жыл бұрын
Ok
@harrycoleman7274 жыл бұрын
Random teir list idea (that might just be bad idk): climax teir list (e.g Dumai's Wells)
@Eddrian323 жыл бұрын
Two ways to do a love triangle: Option A. They talk it out like adults and come to an agreement (a polycule is optional but encouraged) Option B. Korrasami
@deesucks62443 жыл бұрын
Korrasami was nice, but you’d have to make both the characters show their gay/bi/pan side every now and then so it makes sense when they end up together.
@Thelaretus2 жыл бұрын
As someone raised in a small village in Brazil, I love it when characters come from tiny cottages.
@padorupadoru80393 жыл бұрын
the main thing that i hate about the royalty/chosen one trope is that it makes the reader feel like no one else could have done what the protagonist did, which is, at least imo, awful, because it makes them feel distant. It is the polar opposite of the village trope, since that trope serves to present the character as your average, run of the mill humble countryside kid, who adventures because he feels like it, not because of any prophecy or obligation. The royalty/chosen one trope just throws that away for cheap epicness
@henryorhank4 жыл бұрын
Here’s one I’ve noticed: gross, crime ridden cities. Luthadel, camorr, tarbean, ankh morpork to name a few
@germ-x68554 жыл бұрын
I mean it’s kind of an A or S Tier trope because it can be done very well. Especially Ankh-Morpork.
@henryorhank4 жыл бұрын
Germ-X Agreed, I like them a lot, they’re usually very entertaining settings
@scramblebluejay15594 жыл бұрын
gross, crime ridden cities AKA cities. That's like saying glass, transparent windows
@steelbear20633 жыл бұрын
New York
@shakira42233 жыл бұрын
Ketterdam? (Six of Crows)
@grkpektis3 жыл бұрын
I love this, please do this for sci-fi and horror
@mondaysinsanity81934 жыл бұрын
Oh good twist on convention make the "chosen one" absolutely horribly insufferable so old wise mentor has to kill him and do it himself lmao
@SloanePaoPow4 жыл бұрын
Isn't Luke being Vader's son technically the secret royalty trope? I would say that one is well done.
@Rougarou99 Жыл бұрын
I’d argue Secret Royalty is more fulfilled by A New Hope, with Like finding out he has the Force, like his father before him. Finding out his father is Darth Vader probably is more of a Villainous Lineage.
@isa-wt2lb4 жыл бұрын
Loved this video! After reading the Green Bone saga I wish the characters had a bit MORE plot armor... lmao I think my least favorite trope right now is kings in general. Obviously it depends on the author's skill, but I'm generally bored with books that focus heavily on the monarchy. Tier list suggestion: MAGICAL CITIES, aka the best trope (you should definitely read the Daevabad trilogy btw)!
@candiceurquiola37894 жыл бұрын
Going through all the tropes made me realize that Sanderson's works are pretty anti-trope.... And I love it.
@lppunto4 жыл бұрын
Instead of going with classical fantasy tropes, Sanderson has his own list of tropes that he tends to use: dead parents, arranged marriages, super hard magic systems, interactions of different magic systems, morally gray mentors, deific ascension/descension, easter egg characters doing things behind the scenes. They're mostly pretty great tropes, part of that Branderson/Cosmere flavor, and he's usually good at subverting them (esp. in Warbreaker), but they are there. P.S. 17th Shard has a great video up on Brandon tropes - it's really hilarious.
@Naweemshuvo4 жыл бұрын
take just the final empire and count how many of these tropes are in that book. sandarson isn't anti-trope. he just does it better.
@OrionSeas4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, tropes are pretty much unavoidable because they're basically a categorical description of common plot devices. If you don't have tropes you probably don't have a story. The trick, and the thing Sanderson has said repeatedly that he works really hard to do, is to find creative ways to take a trope and twist it, turn it on its head, or otherwise do it in a new way.
@graemetang41734 жыл бұрын
5:33 *Schaffrillas has entered the chat* But seriously, he's got some great analysis on how great those movies really are
@sheoofisles15734 жыл бұрын
In Russian language, we have a similar word to "trope" not related to books but surprisingly fits into "we won't have stories without tropes". The word is "тропа" (tropa) and it means 'trail' or 'a path'. When i hear the word trope, i always make this connection, and it makes sanse why those tropes exist.
@JesusChrist-tu8lo4 жыл бұрын
Daniel: *You can’t write a book without plot armour* Brandon Sanderson while writing Mistborn: *Yeah totally*
@chrisarechiga93473 жыл бұрын
Don't know if you read Well of Ascension, but Vin should definitely should have died in that book
@neutral_narr Жыл бұрын
Even then there is plot armor
@sechay93284 жыл бұрын
The only secret royalty moment I'm okay with is Space Balls and it is largely because it is pointing out how stupid secret royalty is. Well royalty in general.
@seanpoore24284 жыл бұрын
"....But What About Dragons?...." Shad-isms aside how are dragons not a trope?! Dragons have always been a trope! theyre as old as human fiction!
@mellies.88224 жыл бұрын
Definitely S-Tier
@gardenhead924 жыл бұрын
D-tier for me. I am so goddamn sick of dragons
@ebonking54864 жыл бұрын
Biodiversity appreciation
@benjaminthibieroz41554 жыл бұрын
Just like all tropes, can be amazing as well as annoying...but, hey, dragons are cool. Aren't they the embodiment of all of what makes fantasy great? Epicness and grace, horror and wonder, beauty and fear,... A-tier for me.
@laurelelasselin3 жыл бұрын
Another Shadiversity fan! Come, join the fight against nunchucks!
@Hulan64 жыл бұрын
Missed opportunity to discuss these in their order of appearance in the hero's journey. Kidding, of course, just noticed how many of them actually fit pretty well (for I suppose self evident reasons). Thanks for the fun video!
@JohnPatt4 жыл бұрын
Hey Daniel, don’t think you’ll see this but I just want to say thank you SO much for your content. I’m around the same age as you, also grew up with my father getting me into fantasy and grew up in a home of avid readers. However, a number of my late teens/early twenties was spent in heavy academic writing, followed by a journalism specialization, then the beginnings of a copywriting career, so reading books no longer became an escape for me as I would unwind by avoiding the written word altogether (a shame, I know). But this year? WOW I’m on kick because of you re-sparking my drive to immerse myself and learn the craft of creative writing. I’ve power through First Law trilogy and am now starting Wheel of Time and burning through the pages. Haven’t been this fulfilled in ages. Thank you again from Toronto!
@aaronl53884 жыл бұрын
Wheel of Time series is killing me with the relationships. Actually, every other page has to remind the reader what the character thinks of men or women.
@Sherlock9104 жыл бұрын
I can't even get started with the first book. All my respects to Daniel, but it's way too wordy.
@anival95763 жыл бұрын
I waded through the first... ten books was it? Robert Jordan definitely could have used a stricter editor.
@foxesofautumn2 жыл бұрын
Oh Same! Also has a side of “Not like other girls”. “Instalove” And “Undercooked Fellowship” And “perfect Prodigy.” Erg.
@jaredwonnacott9732 Жыл бұрын
Really?! One of my absolute favorite parts of The Wheel of Time is the depth, variety, and familiarity of the relationships. They all seem natural and real and they grow and develop in believable ways throughout the series. There are great friendships, romances, casual acquaintances, reluctant allies, and more. Yes, some of those dozens upon dozens of relationships feel less original, but for every "I've seen this before" there are several "They should do this more often"s.
@DL-idk4 жыл бұрын
I love magical swamp, magical forest, magical desert, magical beasts, magical cities... just everything that is magical.
@ok-vr7by3 жыл бұрын
So....fantasy?
@philippenachtergal60774 жыл бұрын
2:50 Hidden royalty often feels to me like a weak way to remove weak moral objections. You have the guy that should replace the tyrant and we will make him a secret son of xyz so that he has legitimacy. It's not always that of course, it can also just be a "propel the innocent onto the world scene" trope but it often is and it reminds me of classical theatre like Molière's "fourberies de Scapin" where lo-and-behold you learn at the end that the guy that the father wanted to force his daughter to marry is actually the guy she wanted to marry in the first place so that everyone is happy and the moral (of that epoch) is safe.
@delphy24784 жыл бұрын
i'm pretty sure i've seen you mention that you're not interested in reading it, but i hope one day you'll read the belgariad series by david eddings. it has a lot of your favorite tropes, a great fellowship, a wise wizard mentor, an epic world, a great quest, and it's one of the rare hidden royalty books where it has a major impact on the plot and is very important
@gelatinouscube23423 жыл бұрын
One of my favorite uses of the "Chosen one" trope was in a kid's fantasy novel trilogy called "Wellenläufer" (Wavewalkers). In it, some people can walk on water and breathe under water (Trust me, it makes sense) and the two protagonists who have these abilities are the 'Chosen ones' because they're the only ones who can Stop a malestrom. Now it gets interesting because it's used to manipulate the protagonists in several ways and subtly changes the way they view themselves and their Mission - for worse Most of the time. God, it was so good! Not just the Story but also the worldbuilding, it was just *chef's kiss*
@nathanball45824 жыл бұрын
Ahh I didn’t get to the remote to stop the wheel of time spoiler in time :( I just started reading it and it’s awesome!
@herpesinflammation3 жыл бұрын
You know what I've never ever seen? A love triangle of bicurious disasters where ALL THREE people are struggling over their feelings for the other two, instead of just one guy/girl choosing which of the two hottest guys/girls to kiss. That's a fucking goldmine of possibility when it comes to symbiotic characterization.
@refoliation2 жыл бұрын
I mean it takes the character from part of their worries being about the feelings of others and not hurting someone they care about, to worrying about their own potential feelings of disappointment at choosing the wrong relationship.
@lenani91432 жыл бұрын
Okay, but I've seen it done (and done well) ONCE but unfortunately it was in a very late installment of the Cassandra Claire books and I wouldn't wanna force those books on anyone who isn't interested anyways. But I liked it alright in there :)
@shienjiryu9581 Жыл бұрын
I have a similar triangle in a story I'm working on where one is pansexual but the other two who like eachother are hetero. So rather than a triangle its a mutual romance between two parties with the third struggling to move on. I was a bit nervous including it and the character wasn't pansexual until I began getting further in the outline and I suddenly realized that she had good chemistry with the girl as well. I kinda like the "unrequited and complicated love" trope and I don't see it happen too often where a character has to really let go of those feelings and move on. (And yes the character is planned to have an arc where she moves on)
@colorblockpoprocks6973 Жыл бұрын
oh you mean an *actual* triangle?? refreshing to see lol
@AaronRotenberg4 жыл бұрын
My thoughts on a few of these: MacGuffin/The Quest: I actually kind of like these tropes. They provide a perfectly serviceable framework on which to hang the action, character interactions, and worldbuilding that are the real reason I'm reading. Good King/Bad King: There are too many damn kings in fantasy. Unless your world is populated entirely by autonomous city-states, or your setting provides a 20th-century level of long-distance travel and communication, you would expect that the relevant political actors in many situations would be local governors or mid-level nobility who (nominally!) act on behalf of some distant authority. Yet how often do you hear about the "Good Viceroy" trope? Plot Armor: I think it's important to distinguish between a character surviving a situation because they do something clever or make interesting decisions, from a character surviving a situation because the baddies can't aim. If the MC gets into 100 situations where they should have died, and they survive every single one of them by doing something creative or solving the problem in a surprising way-that's fun, pulpy action writing, even if it strains the bounds of plausibility. But you need to show that the character is _trying_ to reduce the danger to themselves, and you need to make it seem that there is an actual threat of the MC dying if they make the wrong decisions.
@FrostyTheSnowPickle4 жыл бұрын
One thing that I love: The Legend of Drizzt series has a fellowship, but it gets built up over time. The story starts out (for pretty much the entire first trilogy) as just Drizzt, but then more people join the party as the series progresses.
@gretchenseigfried44593 жыл бұрын
LOVE that you put Name of the Wind as the picture for Epic World. I LOVE those books. Seriously one of the most cohesive epic worlds I've read in a long time.
@brooque4 жыл бұрын
Omg “Tomato Man” I LOST it 🤣🤣🤣
@tylerlukkasson12894 жыл бұрын
Haha Robert Jordan even names his plot armor in-world; he called it ta’veren.
@books_and_waistcoats71544 жыл бұрын
Daniel: hates on secret royalty Me: *glancing at my wip* I swear mine is cool, different and important to the plot! *sweats nervously*
@TIME-fe6ne2 жыл бұрын
same lmaooo
@MattJDave4 жыл бұрын
Glad to see a nuanced take on tropes that people often cite as pet peeves but you know for a fact stories wouldn't work without them. Tropes aren't bad, tropes aren't good, tropes are tools.
@juleksz.57854 жыл бұрын
3:40 In the game Tyranny when yourebel in one of the dialogues you are told a story about some ancient warrior to be more sure about rebelion and you can reply to that "Do you often try to sell that story to someone?"
@TheBca24usmc4 жыл бұрын
How about ranking the Wheel of Time books individually, with the rule that at least one book has to go under each category.