Does Storytelling Medium Matter?

My thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of the major storytelling mediums.
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[@maksimgamuvka4975]

One of the advantages movies and games have over books is music, music can set up tone so easily

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

You also have webcomics that are using music in the background with different panels causing different music. I find this to be a benefit of webcomics over other graphic novels.

[@jackwriter1908]

That and the small flinch of a Character after someone talked about her dead husband. If you know what I mean. If you say in a book she flinched, you will think „what is up with that?" But if it is in a movie you might actually miss it and thus have even less clues about who it was.

[@Donklopfen]

@@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday Do you have some examples in mind? I have never read those, I'm curious

[@univeriseman8008]

Its called epic fantasy scifi music. Put it on or a game soundtrack duh

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

@@Donklopfen on webtoon there are several that have it... off the top of my head I believe room of swords has a few sprinkled throughout the story... I follow close to 300 different comics on there so I do not remember which ones have all of the sound added.

[@rustage]

I think video games as a medium for story telling is an important avenue to explore, there are certain stories that ONLY work as a game, and some games that only work on the platform they were made for. a good example is 9 persons 9 hours 9 doors for the DS, is one of my favourite game but i think the story only works if you play it on the DS. using the platform the game is on to tie into the story telling is really really effective (no spoilers)

[@pingucrimson750]

I was worried with the upcoming Bioshock movie due to the main theme being choice, which is something you can only get in a video game

[@rustage]

@@pingucrimson750 thats true! A lot of games take gameplay mechanics that are standard in lots of games and weave them into the story in a fun twist Bioshock is a good example Undertale did this well too being able to effect the story and get different endings by subverting the rpg kill everything you see mechanic Doki doki also uses game play mechanics to its strength story wise Inscription too I think theres a decently long list of games like this where an adaption would ruin the core idea of why it had to be a game in the first place

[@gastonkostas2520]

I love 9 persons 9 hours 9 doors (and the sequels too)! And yes I agree. You playing the character adds that level of immersion with the choices you take in-game.

[@beeozan1426]

Why do you think that game is only playable on DS? I have Nonary Games and Zero Time Dilemma on Steam (I don't own a DS) and have been meaning to play it when I have time. Also, visual novels are underrated, it's like reading a book with musical cues programmed into it. Imagine reading LotR and when you're reading about the Shire, Concerning Hobbits plays or when reading about Frodo getting stabbed in the Fellowship, A Knife in the Dark plays. The movies do exist but they cut out a lot of stuff which could be in the game/VN like all the poems, an easy to access appendix (something akin to tips) for the made up languages, or hell Tom Bombadil for example.

[@rustage]

@@beeozan1426 cant really say without spoilers sorry;;, VLR and ZTD can be played on any system though

[@Luxer1996]

Attack on Titan is a great example of why Mistborn - if ever made into film or a tv series - should be animated. Those odm gear scenes would be a great inspiration for a Mistborn's steel pushing and iron pulling.

[@seventyeight3452]

I was thinking the same thing but the show that came to mind is Arcane League of Legends.

[@Luxer1996]

@@seventyeight3452 I agree 100%, my only caveat to that is that, personally - unless it is as good as Arcane's - I find 3d animation in TV shows really off-putting

[@jacobkeltz3584]

That's a great point, and just the general dark gothic-ish vibes would be really cool in an anime art style. The steel inquisitors are already pretty anime

[@davidgoble5479]

100% agree with this

[@vishanthfishy]

Would be the case but Sanderson is still holding out for live action which is the wrong call imo. Mistborn animated is gonna be a slam dunk. Live action there's a huge chance its gonna flop

[@DustinWillis18]

A book using imagination is a double edge sword. Great stories can be created in someone's head with only writing sentences, but require a lot of work from the viewer to imagine it which can lead to readers losing track or not understanding what they read.

[@korganrocks3995]

Not to mention that the ability to visualise what the book describes varies from person to person. I almost always find movie/show adaptations of books to be disappointing, but I watch them once anyway to get the visuals that my brain is bad at imagining on its own.

[@DustinWillis18]

@@korganrocks3995 I think this is why many authors that write books based on movies have it easier. Going from reading epic fantasy to something like a Star Wars novel, you realize the amount of work the author has to put into the story just to describe the environment and its people.

[@Bt-cq6te]

True. Wheel of time, i am afraid they will nerf rand or perrin, or even remove mat's luck, I mean they made nyneave and egwene taveren, a decision i really dont like, actually im more afraid they will nerf what taveren does. Then there is tarmon gaidon, fighting on four fronts becoming two, merrilior i think and the other defending rand, that will be very very hard to show on the big screen, but if they do it faithfully to the source material, no doubt it will become the single best battle in all of fantasy live action.

[@carlosroo5460]

And it gets worse when the author goes on a tangent and starts getting political.

[@korganrocks3995]

@@DustinWillis18 It's also why writing fanfiction is a good starting point for an aspiring writer.

[@isopodshuffle]

it matters when the author's intent and the needs of the story itself can only be served via a particular medium a good example of this is Shadow of the Colossus - while that could certainly be adapted into a movie or something, a huge part of what makes that game (especially the ending) so special is how it toys with player agency, and uses video game conventions to lead the player to do something horrible. hard to capture that feeling without the viewer having hands-on control of the character

[@lesterballard9075]

Another great example is Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy. A popular opinion is that it is apparently unfilmable or cannot be adapted into another medium of storytelling due to the amount of real, unfiltered and absolutely grotesque violence it contains. It's not the violence that makes it unfilmable, rather it's the fact that the content and the characters are so informed by the actual style and prose of the writing, it would just be so hard to translate it to any other medium and expect to come anywhere close to approximating what McCarthy was aiming for. Blood Meridian is tied to the written word like a Jackson Pollock is tied to paint. To put it simply, the contents, events, the characters, the setting of the book can all be filmed and they can be filmed well but it would be impossible to consider them superior to the source material. It's the way McCarthy writes about them, that what makes Blood Meridian a truly incredible book. I believe this is generally the case with McCarthy's books, except for a couple.

[@jcookev]

@@lesterballard9075 I feel like a specially good example of this is NieR: Automata. Medium does deffinitely matter and affects the way in which a story can be told!

[@rhonab6698]

This is exactly why I'm very wary of the upcoming Bioshock adaptation. I have no doubt with the right team working on a live action or animated series/movie that the aesthetic and tone of Rapture/Columbia could be captured beautifully. But the themes of those games are so heavily embedded in toying with the player's concept of their own agency and impact within the narrative (even when playing a voiced character like Booker) that I'm not sure the twists of "would you kindly" or Comstock's origins would work quite as well in a medium where there is no audience interaction.

[@aaronm3258]

@@rhonab6698 Came here to say exactly this!

[@isopodshuffle]

@@jcookev yes! the Nier games are even better examples of this than SotC... i can't imagine Automata working at _all_ as a straight-up adaptation to a movie/show/whatever (watch, now that i've said this Yoko Taro will announce a choose-your-own-adventure pop-up book adaptation of Automata 😆)

[@shyguypro9876]

I really agree that Star Wars was medium mismatched to begin with. Outside the original trilogy the best Star Wars content has been in the mediums of video games and animation. Star Wars as a franchise has always been strongest in its aesthetic and world building, rather than its narratives or characters.

[@tomasmaniago5832]

Had Star Wars been animated from the beginning it would've probably aged better than it actually did (the Ralph McQuarrie illustrations are still beautiful to look at), but at the same time I don't think it would've been as popular. I think there is a natural curiosity from audiences to see this cartoony fantasy worlds being brought to life (live action). Sure, most of the time it sucks (like most anime adaptations to live action), but whenever it works, it feels special. For instance, I can totally see an animated adaptation of LOTR with impeccable animation and overall execution, but would've been as beloved or special as the Peter Jackson trilogy?

[@maximeteppe7627]

it's true, but you have to wait until akira to get anything close to the level of spectacle to convey the epicness of star wars - and even then you'd have an incredibly hard time getting the gribble of the art direction to work as well as 2d drawings as it did on the miniatures that are so core to the saga's visual identity;

[@kadda1212]

I would say Star Wars has been strongest in its movie score. I at least think it plays a huge part in how it was received. The music gives that sense of epicness that really can sweep you away into a different world and make you emotional.

[@civilengineer3349]

Honestly, I think the reason later trilogies (the prequels and the Disney trilogy) got so much criticism was more for the choices of the director rather than the medium. They had the money and fans to ensure that they could make visually stunning movie that will pack cinemas, but they didnt know what to do with the characters in the universe they had.

[@silverjohn6037]

The problem with the prequels and the sequels is that they were trying to make the stories "serious drama" instead of the fun adventures the original trilogy was. Just let the films be for kids and if the adults enjoy it as well fine, but it shouldn't be about about us old geezers.

[@Luka2023-]

A very relevant topic at the moment, especially in regards to the adaptations of the wheel of time and rings of power that we are seeing currently, which has divided both hard-core fans who value lore and care for source material AND mainstream fans who are only looking to be entertained

[@joedan5366]

Amazon why you not make your own story

[@Luka2023-]

@@joedan5366 unfortunately from a business perspective if they loosely adapt material that already exists, they piggy back on its existing fan base and get guaranteed viewers before a trailer has even been shown. I would however, recommend carnival row on amazon prime which is an original fantasy show

[@jamessloven2204]

I am not sure how there is this divide. LOTR has already been adapted into a movie trilogy which was a hit with both the mainstream and with the greater majority of hard core fans. It probably created more hardcore fans who care about the lore than the books did on its own. If anything, it seems as if show runners do not understand what was engaging with the story in the first place.

[@Deni-mt9bj]

The problem is that they don't want understand why fans are so skeptical about the new LOTR, they just blame it on racism in every single article about the issue, even though fans are explaining everywhere what their problem is - and it's mostly not racism.

[@Mhidraum]

@@Deni-mt9bj If walks like a duck... It's not a good look to throw a massive hissyfit about the two black people playing show only characters, but being dead silent about the white guy playing a show only character.

[@shadowofchaos7675]

What I noticed with the Lion King live action: for some reason the producers try to force cartoon humor into realistic creatures, but it just doesn´t fit. For example the song ,,i just can´t wait to be king" in the original is colorful and goes completely crazy with the actions of the characters, in the live action there are just walking and singing animals and it doesn´t fit for realistic looking animals I would have loved when they made the lion King ,,live action" either more documentary-like or used only instrumental music and made it more "serious" But I agree, there can be good adaptations, Detective Pikachu was for example surprisingly good

[@corduroycrook]

Yeahhhh a documentary like film could have been great. I think when so many teams take on adaptations they get so caught up in recreating the magic man. You’ve gotta take advantage of your medium.

[@robbybevard8034]

That's what plagued the Aladdin remake. Wheneven Will Smith was Will Smith, he was fine. Whenever they told him to be Robin Williams, it was a disaster.

[@amp7980]

Pokemon is a show I watched as a kid and I played all the games. I still play the games but I don't watch the cartoon anymore. There was something about the detective Pikachu movie that somehow made the whole world make more sense. I never would have said a live action adaptation would work. But people put the work in to get it right.

[@leescience]

I think this is a good point and it has to do a lot with growing with your audience... What you watched as a kid .. played as a teen.. explored and interact with as a young adult ... Then watch a movie with your kids to introduce them to what you loved

[@ropecrewman36]

Also, this is proof that just because a certain medium doesn't seem natural for a story, doesn't mean it can't be done. It's just a matter of what kind of work needs to be put into that adaptation.

[@victorsecanellamonroy9210]

I have discovered some years ago that we have a fixation with ✨the canon✨ and after studying ancient literature, you discover that there is no such thing as canon and that every piece of literature, movie, show or videogame is a well-hidden fanfic. With that said, that implies that you have to choose wisely which medium are you going to use to adapt your fanfic to.

[@brianyaniro5086]

I've often wondered what you and Merphy would think if One Piece had been written in novel form. How different you think it might land. I can't imagine imagining the world and the characters better than Oda portrays it.

[@Tfbrave]

I honestly don't think it would hit as hard- a big part of of one piece (or any manga with a anime adaptation for that matter) is Oda's visuals and artstyle when it comes to world building and character moments, And when the artstyle of an anime does not faithfully recreate the manga's artstyle it will be poorly received 99% of the time- a perfect example of this would be Berserk: The 90's anime adapting golden age is always praised to no end and a major part of that is how well the style matches that of the manga And then you have the 2016/2017 anime which get absolutely trashed on because of how ugly it looks and how unfaithful it is the manga (amongst other problems.......😱)

[@storysmith5626]

Someone would have to be more descriptive than Tolkien to make one piece work as a novel with how absurd everything is in that world. My god the location descriptions alone would be longer than entire chapters of many other novels

[@joelhaggis5054]

I had an idea for a story not too long ago. I started writing it as a novel, but it didn't quite feel right. So I reworked as a webcomic, and suddenly, the story just worked. I am now in the process of learning to draw just so I can tell this story the way it wants to be told.

[@erickramirez6772]

Rooting for ya

[@loczek1965]

So Witcher started with books. The games did better than anyone had any right to hope. But for some reason, TV adaptations think, that they can write a better story than that in the books.

[@aguywithalotofopinions412]

I’m pretty exited to see the Percy Jackson show but I think it would’ve greatly benefited from being animated instead of live action. I’m particularly worried about all the otherworldly things Riordan described, such as monsters that continuously change shape (there are a lot of those), or Medusa, who he only described as the ugliest thing in existence, or Aphrodite who’s exactly the same but opposite.

[@alfred4576]

I'm still waiting for Stormlight Archives adapted in the animation style of Arcane

[@onepresence9460]

Me too. Let's hope this happens in the future. 😁

[@corduroycrook]

I personally think for ‘the book to live action’ and ‘animation to live action’ adaptations the biggest cause of failure comes with the flanderization of the series most impactful/unique elements and the exhaustive commitment to fan service and callbacks. I remember i said to a friend when i was younger that I think if you removed the title and character names from alot of books and brought it to a script writer you would leave the room with a better end product than alot of these series we see getting adapted. Now looking back i think theres a bit more nuance to it but I still stand behind the notion. As a fan I would much rather complain about how an adaptation looks rather than the sad husk of the story the wheel out more times than not. And its even worst with animation but with some of these fan made adaptations on youtube I’m trying to stay hopeful someone will get it right.

[@ToomanyFrancis]

A great example of this is the live action Hobbit movies. They would be considered some of the best fantasy films ever made if they weren't a butchered and bloated adaptation of one of the most praised pieces of literature ever written.

[@ANunes06]

Yes. Not every book can be transformed into visual media, and not all movies are made better by being turned into words on a page. And obviously, you can't replicate the interactive component of video games in any other media. Heaven knows they've tried. Agreed though, that raw text-on-page is the most broadly capable medium for storytelling. Graphic Novel is also *highly* capable. The rest all have advantages and disadvantages depending on the goals and priorities of the storyteller. A video game can more easily immerse someone in a story than passively watching or reading that story. See: The Witcher. But it is necessarily less guided and focused. You can't control the pacing or reinforce themes like you could in a book or movie or TV show. A movie limits the amount of time available to tell a story, but the amount of money spent per moment of experience allows for much greater spectacle, making the story stick in people's mind more. TV removes that time limit, but introduces the possibility that you never finish your story, or are forced to continue the story past its intended resolution. But ultimately, the best evidence I have for Medium Matters is Berserk.

[@kutstupid5480]

Could you elaborate on the berserk thing please? I haven't read/watched it so I have no idea what you mean by that

[@fulana_de_tal]

@@kutstupid5480 i think that they meant how berserk was never adapted from manga to any other medium, because it just wouldn't have the same feeling and mechanisms of storytelling, but i'm not sure

[@XannMagus]

@@fulana_de_tal there is an anime of Berserk if I'm not mistaken

[@blizzard2798]

@@XannMagus there is and it's bad

[@fulana_de_tal]

@@XannMagus if i'm right it was very bad, so it was canceled

[@connorkenney6938]

I loved how the Dune board game basically tells so much of the books.

[@yoda2824]

The easiest comparison of medium shifts are books to movies and manga/light novels to an anime. They have their strengths and weakness to how a quiet scene, fight scene, or character can be portrayed, the pacing of the story is changed from the readers pace to a set timer, and books and manga can be more detailed either visually or descriptively while anime and movies have to sometimes skip some details. Games to movies seem like the shift that doesn't work because from their inception they are not *designed* to be experienced that way.

[@ropecrewman36]

Much wisdom, have you shared here, Master Yoda!

[@unevenstreets1182]

A lot of HP Lovecraft is impossible to adapt in my opinion because it almost all relies on what you can picture in your head. Like the color out of space what were the new color we have never seen before look like the answer is we couldn’t know.

[@marktgreene]

I like this post quite a lot. It is an interesting update to some of the ideas I first encountered in 1969 when reading Marshall McLuhan‘s book “Understanding Media,” especially the first chapter, “The Medium is the Message.” The more things change …

[@deathless_freak]

I think you'd love Made In Abyss, it features on of my favourite ever fantasy concepts ( the Abyss, an unexplored cascm containing numerous varied biomes with diverse ecosystems and unique yet terrifying monsters) also the relationship between the two leads is adorable. The anime is 13 episodes and a movie but there is a manga from which the show was adapted I haven't read it only watched but I assume given the quality of the series the books are amazing as well

[@JRCSalter]

My fav franchise of all time is Doctor Who, and it has been adapted into every medium possible, TV, theatrical film, made for TV film, straight to DVD shorts, books, comics, stage plays, audio dramas, audio books, video games, RPGs, you name it. But the audio dramas are the best at the moment. The show often suffered from dodgy special effects, which disappeared in audio, but the presence given by the actors, which gave the show its charm, is maintained. Plus, they can make small stories, such as Urgent Calls, which is a series of phones calls between the Doctor and someone else, to big epic stories, such as their Time War series.

[@LuanLopes49]

I'd love to see the entire Cosmere being done in animation, but I know Brandon is against it precisely because of the prejudice of the general public against animation. But I'd still love it. AND The Dark Tower would be a perfect seven-season HBO level TV series if done right. Amazon was completely dumb to pass on the incredible project the showrunner Glenn Mazzara had planned -- I suggest listening to his episode in the Kingcast, in which he describes his plans for the show. It would simply be perfect, and I get sad every time I remember that Amazon didn't approve it. I hope someone like Mike Flanagan gets a chance to adapt it eventually.

[@lenanana8]

Fair point, although the prejudice would mainly apply to western audiences. For a western audience animation is a medium for younger viewers, not adults. This is not the case in East Asia, particularly Japan. I think the animation would be received very well in Japan and by East Asian audiences. From animated works of Studio Ghibli, Makoto Shinkai, Full Metal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, Naruto, One Piece, Violet Evergarden etc. East Asian (and anime-watching) audiences know full well that anime is quite often not for children but adults, and deals with very deep and heavy topics like depression, trauma, war and loss.

[@onepresence9460]

The entire Cosmere being done in animation would be a dream come true.

[@madisonnicklow4507]

I agree. I especially think that The Stormlight Archive would benefit from representation through animation. I have seen some truly breathtaking, amazing fan art. I think that animation has the potential to elevate an already amazing story and appeal to a broader audience.

[@onepresence9460]

@@madisonnicklow4507 Exactly, my friend. Just thinking about Stormlight Archive animated just makes me super hyped.

[@the_Nameless_One99]

Loved this! I agree with everything you say. One thing I would like to add that you didn't cover is the importance of OST and music in any media. If books lack for anything, it is that they can't have music. Attack on Titan is unimaginably good but the OST has a not an insignificant role to play in that. Imagine Interstellar without OST. Would it be good? Yes. But, would it be THAT good?

[@lemeres2478]

Yes, medium matters, since certain mediums handle certain presentations better. First, written stories tend to work better with internal dialogue. I am sure many of you have seen a fight scene adapted from manga to anime, and you thought "please stop thinking about his powers so much and just fight". A single page of thought bubbles in a manga can be several minutes in animations, depending on the pace. Written texts can allow you to follow along with a character's thought processes in detail. Purely written texts go even further with this- just having the narrator describe an object can tell you what they are thinking, even if it isn't stated directly (example- "Her boss waddled over to her, likely to try to ask her out on a date. Again.") In comparison, animation and film work better with 'show don't tell'. Put in visual cues so that the audience can go through the thought process themselves (example- an action hero getting thrown around in a fist fight suddenly founds that he landed next to a gun. You just need to show the gun, and show the hero looking, and we get it). You can show the character's thought process by repeatedly showing where they "point the camera"/place their focus as something significant. Then, you have them act on what they see, which tells you how they interpreted this opportunity. And in video games, you take maximize the process of "have the player follow along the thought process on their own". this is an interactive medium, and you can create and add to the story based on how you interact with the game. You set up a situation, give the player mechanics, and reward/punish certain behavior. Even seemingly simple mechanics can set a tone for the world. (example- in Bloodborne, you can can regenerate health from a recent hit if you immediately hit them back. This encourages you to swing wildly and aggressively against any perceived enemy. And this is a setting where monster hunters run the risk of turning into berserk monsters themselves if they abandon themselves to blood lust). Additionally, while all works have a chance for the reader/viewer to experience it in ways far outside of what was intended/planned for, videogames take this to the greatest extreme. A player might entirely forget the final boss, but they may dearly/tearfully remember the time they accidentally walked into a fight with a large common enemy, but they forgot they didn't put on their equipment and thus they had to run around and punch a bear to death with their fists. Video games have direct player interaction and this means that they are heavily reliant upon the emergent experience each player brings to the table. Maybe they missed a tutorial, and they accidentally entered into a challenge run where you cannot dodge enemy attacks. Perhaps they had realized the full advantage of range and stealth mechanics, and they easily trivialize major encounters. The entire genre of lets plays was born because people wanted to see someone else's personal experience with the game.

[@hanshansomahammau]

Zelda's Majora's Mask will always be among the GOATs for me, but I honestly don't know how a faithful adaptation could even be done. I've read the manga and while cute, it doesn't hit the same spot for me. Unlike similar concept style movies like groundhog day I'd argue the key difference is the player's decision when to do what or if, at all. Instead of bugging around, wondering how the situation came about, players instinctively start exploring. The game's 3 day cycle is also an important factor, cause no matter what you do, the time flies by and the NPCs go about their daily life. MM already subverted the expectation of being centre stage in a game at all times, having all NPCs just wait for you to talk to them, but here you are on a clock to meet the right people at the right time. I think what could be working is a serial animation adaptation that centres each episode around one 3day cycle. Watchable in any order (except 1st and last episode), there's maybe even multiple attempts at a certain questline and so on. It may even be funny if done as a IRL production focussing more on humour and character interactions, however then maybe the core spirit of loom, doom & gloom goes missing.

[@ropecrewman36]

Well said! Majora's Mask is a very unique experience that I honestly don't know how you could recapture in any other medium, mostly because your fate is directly intertwined with the denizens of Termina. Every time I play it, something new brings tears to my eyes, hitting differently than before.

[@jayjayjavon]

I've always wanted Harry Potter to get a tv-show adaptation with the Game of Thrones budget. 1 book per season over ten episodes would give the writers enough time to fit in missing plot points and characters from the books that couldn't fit in the original movies' runtime.

[@ropecrewman36]

@@tactical_369 It also didn't help that the studio kept switching directors until Movie #5. By then, several plot threads (namely the House Elves) had been long dropped or left out entirely. I feel like Dobby's death would have had more impact in Movie #7 if we had seen him regularly since Movie #2.

[@robbybevard8034]

Nah, the first two movies covered all the book details fine, and the third could have managed it all with just a little bit more run time if the director had actually cared to get everything in. it wasn't until the fourth film that they started dropping enough details that the overall product was affected and a lot was lost. They should have started doing double films then... or just filming a boatload of bonus footage to eventually do LotR style extended cuts. We *will* someday get a team that tries to redo the whole series, its too big not to on the justification of "so much was cut from the books" but it won't really be noticeable till halfway unless they make up a ton of stuff... and Rowling's track record on expanding the material isn't great.

[@lenanana8]

Harry Potter should've been a tv show from the beginning. That would've allowed for a more complete worldbuilding and book content inclusion, and plot developments from other characters' perspectives other than Harry would'be made it so much more immersive and satifying. I will never understand why they went with movies, and I hate when people cite budget concerns or resource limitations. There were plenty of notable TV shows done before and during that time that went on for years, like the classic Star Trek and Doctor Who, to Stargate SG-1, Battlestar Galactica, Buffy, Charmed, Highlander, MacGyver, etc. Not to mention Japanese anime series like Once Piece.

[@blueMJS]

It should also be animated imo

[@onepresence9460]

@@blueMJS I super agree with your opinion.

[@cinthiagoch]

My favorite story is Sandman, and I am oh so apprehensive about the show to come. I can't imagine it being in any medium other than comics. Even an animation would be complicated, because there are moments of quiet contemplation in the middle of action and dialogs, and that is one of its greatest features. How can you provide that through a medium that needs to be always moving and has a time limit? The trailer has shown some nice visuals, but I'm afraid that those were the best shots, or that they focus too much on the visuals and make everything else feel campy.

[@MagicalMedic]

"The medium is the message," was drilled into us in Media Communications.

[@JoAndreFurustad]

I missed these kinds if videos! Keep em comming.

[@BladeWinters]

Daniel, I hope in the future you would read a substantial number of japanese light novel series so that you can explain the difference between them and english novels/books

[@michaelnelson2976]

What is the difference specifically? I don't understand the distinction of a light novel and would love to learn

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

A lot of the difference with light novels vs English novels is actually the length. Most light novels can be read withing 6 hours where as most English novels will take 2 to 3 days to read (this is based on average reading times some will read faster and others slower). Then you have to look at topics. The most popular light novels are iseka style (S.A.O., That time I got reincarnated as a slime, I got reincarnated as a spider, in another world with my smartphone, death march rhapsody, etc.) and the most popular English novels are extremely varied in comparison. It is a difference born of culture more than anything. The Japanese culture is very focused and driven on being better. American culture is way more focused on luxurious living. This has given rise to... Okay, I am starting to sound like I am lecturing.

[@michaelnelson2976]

@@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday I was absolutely enjoying, feel free to go on. The content notwithstanding, it feels like these could be compared to novellas?

[@michaelnelson2976]

Because the labels that I've come to recognize are novel, visual novel, graphic novel, and light novel. There are many ways to tell a story, like comics are somewhere adjunct to some of this and manga as well. And videogames to visual novels. So thanks for helping me delineate. Am I far off base?

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

@@michaelnelson2976 Light novels would be more comparable to novellas in length, but not purpose. Novellas are usually a short one off story, whereas light novels are short story arcs inside of a much longer story.

[@christiansimmers168]

I work as a narrative designer in games, so this topic comes up way more often than I would like. I think games are a hard thing to adapt directly from, but not that hard to adapt to. Games interactivity inherently is maxed out compared to other mediums, and especially any movie adaptations seem to suffer from that. The only adaptations I have seen do well have been Expanded Universe, like the recent Netflix League of Legends series Arcane or multimedia properties like Pokemon.

[@Cam_Wolfe]

One of the things I've learned recently is that too many people cherry pick what changes are okay or not when it comes to adaptations, regardless of how much or little impact it has on the plot, character arcs etc. I've seen people drawing a line between people that do this and others, and calling it "true fans" vs "people that don't care/respect the source material" which is just a fundamentally goofy way of looking at it. Not only does the medium matter, but the time that the adaptation is happening does too. That's my thoughts anyway 🤷

[@wegrata]

I mean yeah, people have different opinions on media. Different people will relate to different aspects of a character and story, and if those things they relate to are changed in a way they dislike they're going to dislike the adaption.

[@corduroycrook]

I agree with you but I think too many series do this weird half in half out thing were they act like theyre faithfully adapting the series and then they start doing things that erase tension/make it hard to suspend your disbelief. Its almost used as a safety cushion to protect them from having to make difficult decisions. I think a good example was netflixs Cowboy Bebop. I dont think the adaptation was bad on its own, I actually thought a funny and less serious take on the series was a smart way for it to stand on its own. However then there would be this tonal whiplash when things were going from cheesy to serious. And some of the character interpretations where so left field they could and probably should have been new characters. All in all if youre going to adapt it losely i think it just needs to be clear the series is going for its own thing. But even if thats the case I know there are sooo many fans who would just slander the series for ever.

[@mplovecraft]

Well, it depends, doesn't it? I think most fans would want it to be as similar to the original as the new medium would allow. If something is so out of tune with today's morals and values that you need a total makeover, maybe you shouldn't adapt it to begin with? Just write something new.

[@destro6971]

Agreed. MY GOD THE WHINING that people are doing over a 1 minute teaser. 😆

[@kadda1212]

It's almost like in religion...I bet if you were to take an EEG of some of the super angry fanboys out there you would see the same parts lighting up as when you think about your spirituality.

[@kanbu1579]

This is a topic that is very relevant to me in recent times. I originally joked around with friends about games we would make if possible. This evolved to strongly developed ideas over the years. When I was overwhelmed with ideas a few years ago I took it more serious and started to write everything down and research/gather more ideas etc. But as someone who played games for around 30 years, I wasn't delusional to think of it as an easy task. And still, the real scope of such projects was surprising to me. I slowly realized that it would be easier (and more realistic) if I just wrote my story as a novel. This forced me to adapt a few things because of the change in medium. Fast forward, a friend working on building a gaming studio and if everything works out fine, my story could be adapted into a game as originally intended. Now I'm in this spot that I need to write my story as a novel, because this is just on me to make it possible. But at the same time keep in mind that it might very well be adapted into a game. And this is such a weird spot to be in. Any cool idea is automatically met with possible hindrence in adapting and can't be just ignored because it may be important to the pacing. You can't just build a vast world because every place has to be designed. Every character, battle, event, magic system - everything. And the worst part is, that it hurts creativity and freedom. So yeah, every medium has its dis-/advantages and it feels like it's important to know early on what medium one wants to have their world realized in.

[@Joenah5]

I’d love to see either a Worm or a Cosmere anime. I think Worm would be the harder of the two to adapt since I think one of the biggest strengths of it is how well the writing gets you into a character’s head. The Cosmere’s biggest challenge would just be its length. Both, if done well, would slap so hard.

[@onepresence9460]

Worm anime and Cosmere anime would be something really special. 😁

[@chainthunder083]

Good discussion, I agree that video games have one of the most unique story telling abilities, since you as the player are physically involved in the story. It's also why I think games like dark souls couldnt really be adapted to a different medium, because without the constant danger and death lots of the themes of perseverance wouldn't be easily portrayed

[@tylerharrell9862]

Watching someone watching a video of the video I was watching was CRAZY 😂 I was really happy with the editing. This topic is huge, but I enjoyed this conversation and this channel's defense of adaptation makes my heart happy 😊 I was really impressed with The Witcher games capturing the spirit of the novels and especially the short stories

[@thegleeman7535]

Something good to look at for medium would be series that have worked well over multiple mediums. Scott Pilgrim vs the World would be the first example I can think of. Arguably, all its adapations have been strong in their own ways, but all have played to the strengths of their mediums as well.

[@kyleburnett1618]

I love these types of videos you put out! They're rare gems that I can't get enough of. I'd be really interested in a video deconstructing some other story mediums with a closer eye or literary lens on graphic novels or books that take advantage of other genres, structure, and format (i.e House of Leaves, Night Film, etc.). Keep up the awesome work!

[@Siriwarbreakerskz]

I get what you’re saying about becoming jaded towards certain mediums. That’s been happening to me toward live action lately. Books were my main source of entertainment but recently I branched off into a lot more animation, and now most live action feels lack luster to me🤣

[@jessicatatum7769]

The real question considering your profile pic... are you afraid or excited for the PJO adaptation?

[@Siriwarbreakerskz]

@@jessicatatum7769 Good question 🤣 I’ve been burned once but I’m trying to stay hopeful😂

[@onepresence9460]

@@Siriwarbreakerskz I love your profile pic! Percy Jackson is aweosme!

[@enormouslittlethings6893]

Two of my personal favorite adaptations have been Stephen King’s The Stand and The Dark Tower saga into the graphic novel/comic book medium. In both instances the story and artistic representations were very “by the book”, without being exact scene by scene replicas of the source material.

[@mycenaeangal9312]

Interestingly, i just saw someone with a cosmere name as a mod on the one piece discord. It’s really neat to see the impact you’ve had on people being willing to cross polinate between the two mediums to this extent.

[@estherandreasen366]

I want to see the Silmarillion adapted into Anime. I think that would actually work better than any other adaptation because of the flexibility that animation provides.

[@ropecrewman36]

That would be amazing!

[@onepresence9460]

Yes! The Silmarillion anime would be definetly epic!

[@edsainmuramasa4751]

My favorite manga, Tsubasa Chronicles was adapted into an anime around 2006, and it started off very well. Problem: the creators are freaking nuts and so what at first seemed like an adventure fantasy chill story became dark fantasy in the snap of a finger (or eyeball, actually) and the animation team simply could no longer adapt half the series because they marketed the anime wrongly as a young boy show. The anime continued with a different story and afterwards adapted the two fan favorite post shift arcs, ironically, the most brutal. I'd like them to try again, but the creators are first trying to adapt an older story, Tokyo Babylon, which is being sued cause the anime team stole designs from celebrities as new costumes. To sum it up, CLAMP fans can't get anything good since the 2000s.

[@Russ_Bush]

I haven’t heard anyone mention Tsubasa Chronicles in ages! I remember closely following the manga for that and xxxHolic as a teen and the tone shift for those were such whiplash and then those endings… I’ve been putting off reading the sequels for them for a long time.

[@edsainmuramasa4751]

@@Russ_Bush tsubasa world chronicle is great. Holic rei is in hiatus i think (at30something xhaoters)

[@Russ_Bush]

@@edsainmuramasa4751 I’ll be sure to check those out soon then. The dreaded infinite hiatus, that’s claimed several manga I’ve followed. I just looked up the Wikipedia page for xxxHolic and just found out a live action movie is scheduled for April.

[@thevacuumofcomments2946]

Not an expert on the guy's work but from what I've seen Alan Moore's comics are a massive example of this. Most writers tailor their work to the medium but Moore really does embrace the strength of comics as a means of storytelling. Not even just medium in general, so many things about how a story is released will affect how well it communicates its story. Watchmen is best not being read all at once but issue by issue. There are series of tv shows where they'll divide a series in a half and it works better that way than binging it all at once

[@yarahelal9412]

Strongly agree. I hated the Watchmen adaptation. So much of WHY the story works is hardwired into its panelling and how much thought was put into it. Watchmen has such an incredible structure, probably the tightest i've ever seen in any comic. Live action made it feel formless and not any remarkably different from other live action superhero stories. And seeing as the whole thing was a deconstruction of superheroes, that just sucked imo.

[@AliasAerius]

One adaptation that was so successful that many fans don't even know that it was an adaptation is the book series The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, which was adapted from a radio play. This actually helped when they adapted it into a TV series, because they basically adapted the radio play again, instead of trying to adapt the book.

[@fakjbf3129]

One problem with moving from animation to live action is the change in visuals. With a book you have a lot of leeway to interpret what everything looks like, you'll always have some people who don't like it but most people will be fine as long as your vaguely close to the source material and it looks nice. But with animation you can just see what the original looked like and compare it directly to the live action, and now any changes you make will be directly contrary to the source material. Unfortunately just because something looks cool in animation doesn't mean it would look cool in real life, so now the studio has to ride the fine line of staying faithful while also not looking stupid.

[@tolkienite101]

First off, I find it hilarious that you discussed Attack on Titan being adapted into live action when it was and we all saw what a dumpster fire that turned out to be. But as far as adapting a work into a type of medium goes, I think a big part of it has to do with the specific fundamentals of a story and genre. For example, we have seen plenty of fantasy live actions (LoTR) that do extremely well, but those stories (at least in my opinion) have been more grounded in the fantasy elements. Again using LoTR as an example, yes we see magic being used in the story, but because it is more a soft magic system with it rarely being used in battle, you can rely on more "realistic" sword fights that lend themselves really well to the live action medium. I find that while I already have a certain level in my suspension of disbelief in fantasy, that level increases when I am watching something animated vs live action. If a story has a lot of the larger than life fights, i.e. crazy acrobatics that go beyond human ability or full on mage fights, it is more interesting and fun to watch those play out in an animated medium. If a story is more grounded in reality while still encompassing fantasy elements, then an argument can be made for live action. When I think of mage battles that have been done in live action, I find those ones to be more boring and less dynamic than the ones animated whereas a live action sword fight can be just as exciting as their animated counterparts. Star Wars was fine for the first three original movies as a live action, because they don't really utilize the magical elements whereas in the later movies, characters start to rely more heavily on the force in battle and the fights started to become more complex. In the case of most anime to live action adaptations, a huge aspect that makes these movies generally terrible is that normally the creative directors aren't doing anything to make the characters look like they exist in a real world. Instead they look like people who are cosplaying as those characters, while we as an audience are being told to take this story very seriously. Like I mentioned with my suspension of disbelief, I am far more likely to be taken out of a show because a character in a live action looks incredibly goofy because their costuming is an exact replica of the anime and those generally don't work well in live action. A character can look great as an animated person, but that is because you can go to extremes a lot more easily than you necessarily can with live action.

[@whathell6t]

@tolkienite101 Well! That live action or Tokusatsu, adaptation of Shingeki no Kyojin-Attack on Titan was o on Shinji Higuchi to do the whole thing. He accepted the limitations of his craft and moved on. Eventually, he accepted collaboration with Hideaki Anno, the creator of Evangelion; to reboot the major tokusatsu franchise: Shin Godzilla (2016), Shin Ultraman (2022), and Shin Kamen Rider (2023).

[@carsonlacy6277]

I do love the food for thought. It sorta reminds me of how geography difference lead to different story structures/ telling like in Japan, Sweden

[@stefan1924]

You mean geography influences the story telling style of a culture? Can you elaborate a little?

[@gabebarnes2254]

Daniel I always appreciate your videos like this, you are Avery chaotic & zany man but you are also very insightful & intelligent. I love both sides of you equally.

[@randomgeekstuff7078]

Another banger Daniel, love your videos 👍

[@gowzahr]

The biggest difference that I've seen between different media, is the amount of suspension of disbelief that each can get away with. For example, Ultron in the comics once took over an entire galaxy in, if memory serves, a couple of hours. I don't see something that ridiculous ever happening in the MCU.

[@jacobd1984]

Technically something that ridiculous has happened in the MCU canon (Stephen Strange eating a galaxy). They just put it in animation instead of live action, I suspect for exactly the reason you’re pointing to.

[@matthewsantos238]

What about What If?

[@MireVale]

It works if they make a joke about it

[@martialsant]

By the way Attack on Titan does have a live action adaption... and yeah its bad so the community doesn't really talk about them, but if you go into the darkness of google search you will find them.

[@Ignir]

The Dominions Series. From Video Game -> Book. In video games I have never found any title that has a greater depth of mythology/lore. The way that all of the lore is drawn in from real-world mythology and woven together is so effortless. I would love to see what stories could be drawn from such rich lore. It already works beautifully in AAR (After Action Report) form, particularly in multiplayer, so adapting it to a book wouldn't be too difficult in theory. Granted, managing the sheer quantity of lore and trying to write a coherent and compelling narrative would still be a very large task.

[@claytonmiller8467]

Loved this topic! The various transitions and how they may be affected based on medium was exceptional. The only example I can think of that kind of breaks the norms you so eloquently laid out is Tank Girl. It started off as what I think could be easily described as a "bombastic" comic book series that also made a really enjoyable live action movie. And if anyone needs any additional reason to see this movie, just know that Ice-T plays a Ninja Kangaroo...

[@shamamismael4300]

Hey Daniel I suggest you watch Trollhunters: Tales of Arcadia (2016) a TV show by Netflix. I really liked it. Especially those end scene which gives us a glimpse of what will happen in the following episode.

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

My daughter's love the tales of Arcadia shows. My only problem with them is how much crossover you get. If you do not watch the other tales of Arcadia shows you can get lost when the crossover happens and it mostly takes place in one of the other shows.

[@shamamismael4300]

@@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday That is correct Indeed. But I am only talking about about tales of Arcadia.. my favourite.

[@shamamismael4300]

@@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday and hey I don't think it is necessary to watch 3Below (cuz it is terrible) to understand the movie. And after all 10 episodes of Wizards tales of Arcadia cannot hurt. I do think the movie was the best movie to ever come out this year it was awesome. SPOILER..... I think that most people don't understand that there is two timeline one in which Jim is the Trollhunter and the other is the one in which Tobias is the Trollhunter.

[@c0ldNcl34r]

I really wanna see the Cosmere brought into animation, along the lines of Castelvania. My main worry with doing so is given the cost of production, and the absolutely mammoth undertaking it would be, any version we might end up with would be... too abridged? It'd be difficult for the producers to allow enough breathing room, to allow us to just take in the worlds, to allow the moments to sit with us and have their true impact. Not to mention that a lot of the internal dialogue of written works are inevitably lost when translated into a visual medium.

[@blueeyed5074]

Castlevania is an exception. But in general American/western animations are shit. If you want it to be hip and absolutely bad, let the westerners do it :)) If you want it to be true to the source material, let the Japanese do it.

[@elessar6950]

I'm usually not awake when you release your videos, so figured I'd just say hi. Thanks for the video, as always!

[@matthewmoreland8119]

The Game of Thrones show and Lord of the Rings movies brought so many more people into the literary world. Even if most didn't keep reading or did not like the books, the fact that those shows drove so many people to pick up books and explore the literary medium is incredibly important. The more mediums a good story is brought to, the better (obviously if its done well).

[@Euphoniumstar]

Wheel of Time is probably my favorite media franchise right now. While I'm very happy with the Amazon show so far, I've always thought that a video game adaption would work very well. In fact we already saw it work pretty well in the 1999 PC Game, though that really hasn't aged well in terms of graphics or gameplay. I'd really like a Shadow of Mordor-style game that full takes advantage of the advances in video game tech we've made in the past couple decades. I also think that my second favorite, Joe Abercrombie's First Law series would very easily transition into a live action Television series. Reading those I kept thinking to myself that those books are already paced and structured much like a TV show anyway, which makes sense because Abercrombie, like George RR Martian, worked in Television before becoming an author and I think it shows in his writing. In general it seems like adapting a book into a new medium is far easier when the book's author already had experience with, and was influenced by, that new medium.

[@LostInNumbers]

Favourite franchise: Dungeons and Dragons. D&D started as a medium you haven't actually mentioned: a tabletop roleplaying game. And have seen many, adaptations to various so many different mediums. Books, computer games, Movies, cartoons, comics, even podcasts just to name a few. Some of these adaptations were official, other were unofficial and in all but name. I my experience, D&D have the hardest time being adapted for TV and cinema, especially in official capacity. I think that this is because producers and studios like to play things safe, and in a franchise that doesn't come with a built in story, it's really hard to write a safe script that's also good.

[@shahrif4687]

The Legend of Vox Machina seems to be very well received so an animation series based on campaigns for TV is doable imo.

[@qaylis]

D&D is also harder to ecapsulate in certain visual mediums. The game is immersive because you are the protagonist, and seeing someone act out a script makes it just a fantasy movie with a D&D theme, which loses something. They just can't get the viewer excited about the TRPG. Production limitations are not the main drawback but do compound it. Books flesh out the world your character inhabits and gives the lore scope which can enhance but not replace the tabletop aspect. Video games try to recreate the feel of living the story. Some are better than others. So, for D&D, I will watch the shows and movies if they are done and be hopeful...but without real expectation (I am looking at you Dungeons & Dragons 2000, you almost ruined it).

[@writerducky2589]

Something like how the Gamers did it would probably be among the better versions of adapting DnD to the screen, switching viewpoint between the players and their DnD characters. Personally I’m quite happy with DnD movies that are just "regular fantasy movies" based off DnD lore and would love to see something more like the Dragonlance, dragons of autumn (or whatsitsname) animation. But that’s just me.

[@zach4463]

Yes d and d is incredibly difficult to translate because it's not refined or polished. So many um what should we do this spell no this. Books have already been edited. D and d is not the staff will need to start from staff to make it decent.

[@bencressman6110]

Look at how good Arcane turned out though. It is possible

[@kay12]

I so enjoyed listening to your take on this. What a relevant topic, too! What wi the sll the adaptations going on ❤️

[@samuelleask1132]

Great video!

[@dess_greenwood1081]

My favorite adaptation is the Ruroni Kenshin live action trilogy and subsequent prequel/sequel pair. I think it not only keeps the core of the original story, but enhances it by utilizing the benefits of each medium it has gone through (manga -> anime -> live action movie). Each has its own identity and each keeps the comical yet serious nature of the story throughout while also bringing out what each medium has to offer. I like it when I get the chance to see my favorite stories told in moving picture, whether animation or live action, so long as they are respectful to the source material and done well given the medium they are going into. There’s a couple I would like to see come to life off the pages, and maybe someday I will given the trend of medium adaption.

[@whathell6t]

@Dess Erikson Well! The live action adaptation of Rurouni Kenshin is not a Hollywood. It’s a tokusatsu. That’s the difference.

[@AmanGupta-zr6rd]

In very short- Yes, atleast for me.

[@dess_greenwood1081]

A great discussion that is timely for both authors and audience.

[@drewcummings2453]

This was a good discussion around the logistics of adaptation, which was a lot of fun, but I wish there was a bit more discussion about the story telling techniques that are unique to the different mediums, and the challenges that they present in adaptation. For instance, there's an interesting example of a book that's notoriously nightmarish to adapt to film that you probably wouldn't think would be, just based on the scope and genre of story: pride and prejudice. Pride and prejudice is a book that kinda changed the way we tell stories, and one of the ways it did that was it's use of narrative summary, where the narrator of the book quickly summarizes certain plot-relevant details, rather than rendering them out in scene. It's a storytelling technique that's somewhat unique to prose, mediums like film tend to render everything they're trying to say out in scene, only very rarely directly speaking to audience via narrator. The books opening line is a great example of this technique: "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife." That line is fundamental to the book. It's iconic, it's funny, it's high brow, and it instantly lays out the themes of social conflict and interpersonal relationship issues that the book discusses. But it's not in scene. It's a piece of information and framing that the narrator of the book provides us instead of a character, which means you have to get creative to include it in a movie. Most adaptations have a character say the line, but then it isn't the instant perfect opener it is in the book. It loses the effect in translation. Even more tricky is how navigating how narrative summary is used for pacing. In Darcy's first proposal to Elizabeth, he makes an ASS of himself, presenting his proposal as more of a favor to her he's doing out of pity. Austen mercifully spares us the particulars of his proposal, instead saying "He spoke well; but there were feelings besides those of the heart to be detailed... His sense of her inferiority-of its being a degradation-of the family obstacles which had always opposed to inclination, were dwelt on with a warmth which seemed due to the consequence he was wounding, but was very unlikely to recommend his suit." We get to skip Darcy making an ass of himself, and instead cut straight to Elizabeth tearing him a new one, all while getting the gist of his proposal. But you can't do that in a movie! You have to show Darcy being an ass to Elizabeth before we can get to the fun part, dragging out the scene and making the audience experience a cringe moment that wasn't there in the original novel. EVERY scene has stuff like this in it, making it a real headache to adapt to film cleanly. This is just one technique in one book! I'm obv more familiar with the techniques unique to prose, but film, comics, and even radio plays all have unique storytelling tools that other mediums don't. A good adaptation will lean into those strengths and change the source material to better work with the unique strengths of the medium. Bad adaptations either make changes for changes sake, or don't adapt to the medium they're in. For example, that's why Zack Snyder's wathcmen film ultimately falls flat imo. It's TOO loyal an adaptation of the comic. Those poses and camera shots that strike a distinctive tone and style on the page end up looking stilted and awkward on the screen. It's why some of the animation in the Marvel vs Capcom games is janky, they got actual comic book artists to come in and do the art for those games. Each individual frame looks fine, but in motion the lack of stretch and exaggeration leads to the animations feeling weightless.These little challenges fascinate me, so I would have liked to see a bit more discussion about them in the vid. Still really enjoyed the talk of scale and accesibility though! I think it's one of the things that makes novels so robust as a medium, pretty much and literate adult with sufficient free time can prdocue one, it makes it easier for amatures with a neat idea to get that into the ether.

[@CJthedragon8]

I just ranted to my grandpa that "just because a story is in an animated medium doesn't mean that it can't have a deeper meaning" because he said that he "couldn't watch anime because he likes stories with deeper meanings and themes"

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

Introduce him to Death Note.

[@facundoprieto1030]

I've been trying to learn game development just to make a Mistborn game. That magic system is 🔥🔥🔥

[@discreetscrivener7885]

I’ve noticed when writing my own projects that there are things you can get away with in both content and pacing in some mediums that you can’t quite do in others. For instance, a serialized comic series is not under the same constraints as a tv series. In a tv series episodes generally need to be a certain length. Seasons are often limited to a certain number of episodes. In a webcomic the format is a lot more flexible. As long as it’s digestible and engaging for the reader, you can take the time to pace the story as you see fit.

[@citizensguard3433]

Daniel Greene: The Ageless Faced Goblin... Video games are a weird one. You can have a game with no story at all like pong or tetris. You can have a story with hardly any game like Tell Tale. When these things combined its amazing. I always loved the story telling found by just exploring skyrim.

[@saintdundee3820]

When making an adaptation the only politics that should be included are the politics included in the source materials

[@sheepsky]

agreed. Only the original themes and messages of the author should be presented.

[@hildegunstvonmythenmetz6095]

My absolute favourite books are the Zamonia Novels by Walter Moers, and they have been adapted into many formats already, like a Graphic novel or a radioplay. I personally would really appreciate a cinematic adaptation of one of them, I believe the best suited would be City of Dreaming Books, but it really shouldn´t be live action as almost none of the characters are actual humans. Also, thank you soooo much for acknowledging that making an animated show or movie into live action often isn´t worth it, that´s what I was thinking whenever I heard about a new live action adaptation.

[@supershinigami1]

I would love to see A Song of Ice and Fire be adapted into an animated tv show. It just fits better.

[@onepresence9460]

Me too! It would be incredible! 😁👍

[@sockmanexpress7369]

I find it interesting how the superhero genre may be the only one that consistently switches between all three of these mentioned mediums (and more) successfully

[@renken2428]

I think berserk is an exception in Manga that would work best in live action

[@carlosdanielcalderonmontoy3723]

Berserk in Live Action? No, it is hard to imagine that. The demons, the characters, the world, the eclipse, literally all the arcs, that wouldn't be portrayed correctly. Anime is the best option if there was an adaptation (a decent one, because the ones that exist, are poor), but even in anime it would be *too difficult.*

[@benjrc3611]

Not my favorite franchise but Made in Abyss is begging to get adapted into a Breath of the Wild style, player vs. environment, survival game. Reg's arms would make for an incredibly compelling moment system similar to Spider-man PS4 but with more weight to it. Maybe throw some Dark Souls or Shadow of the Colossus style boss fights in there and you'd have a pretty good game!

[@Elvispersoon]

First of all, love all your content😊Well I am a massive fan and admirer of Tolkien's works. I've just finished reading Beren and Lúthien and just started on the Children of Húrin. The amount of thought he put into the creating of multiple languages, then creating a world for those languages, and then writing a story about it, astonishes me to no end. Every sentence he wrote, the usage of words, the syntax, word order, it was all done for a reason and there is no way anyone could have put pen down to paper the way he could. I first read Lord of the Rings and saw the first movie in 2001 when I was 9 years old. I remember seeing the Return of the King three times in cinema and I cried when it was over because I thought something like that could never be made again. And in a way I was right. I acknowledge that the movies have their problems due to the fact movies are limited in time and you simply cannot put everything in it. What Peter Jackson did do is to stay as true as possible to the message Tolkien put into his books. As for the Rings of Power........ I have serious problems with it, and some may agree and some may not. They are trying to tell a story they don't have the full rights of. They don't have rights to the Silmarillion, the Unfinished Tales, or anything other than the Hobbit and the LOTR. So why make a tv series about a story you do not have the full content of? If they wanted to make a show that bad, they could've made a show about LOTR, delving deeper into the stories and the lore, inserting characters that Peter Jackson left out, like Tom Bombadil, Glorfindel, Prince Imrahil, and Beregond to name a few. But no, instead they made a show they had so little content of they had to insert their own political agendas and own original characters that add absolutely nothing to the plot and are not relevant to the story Tolkien was trying to tell. It is so far removed from the lore I might as well watch a generic fantasy series with the name of Tolkien slapped on it. And that is a shame about living in current times. Megacorporations are much more concerned about making money and making a series that is related to the current political views and mindset rather than staying true to what is actually written. And I think that is a shame. 😔

[@EricMcLuen]

Watchmen is an interesting example. Many were extricate the movie was a faithful representation of the comic. Simultaneously many were upset that it held too closely to the text and didn't take advantage that it was a movie and could do something different. Regarding Malazan, MBotF on its entirety could not be adapted in its entirety for numerous reasons. However, smaller bits could be amazing. And a tabletop RPG would be awesome.

[@alexm-e4910]

I would argue that medium is vitally important to the story being told. WOT on Prime is - as a currently relevant example - arguably less rich than the books due purely to time. Jordan could ramble - and regularly does - forever on descriptions so high quality that you can almost taste his world without detracting too much from the story. Film and TV? Not so much. AOT and FMA, for example, I don’t think could possibly make the jump from manga/anime to live action without changes so profound that - though the plot would be the same - the characters would be all but unrecognizable.

[@dirkjehovah4731]

“Changes so profound that the characters would be all but unrecognizable.” You just described Netflix’s Death Note adaptation lol

[@MaryaHach]

@@dirkjehovah4731 I didn't watch the Netflix adaptation, but the Japanese ones also felt completely different. They changed the story a lot, and the only character that felt the same is L, due to Ken'ichi Matsuyama nailing the role. People still liked it though, it ended up being four movies and a miniseries if I remember correctly (even though only the first 2 movies had anything to do with the manga).

[@maras00jr49]

I want a One Piece game that's like Divinity original sin 2. Where you don't follow Luffy but your own character going from island to island on the Grand line.

[@oneoftheorder]

I would say that audiobooks represent perhaps a half-step rather than a full step of medium adaptation, and thus Lawful Times has in fact begun its adaptation journey. The adaptation I would most like to see happen is John Wick as ballet. It so successfully accomplishes its storytelling through action that transitioning nearly all the storytelling to motion might be an interesting exercise. Favorite franchise: Star Trek -- a few obvious adaptations -- books, games, audio dramas, and imo most effectively, animations. It seems to stand up well as animation since that removes obvious design and budgetary constraints.

[@onepresence9460]

I think that animation is perfect for Star Trek.

[@blackandredteddybear2584]

With adaptations is tricky because people forget one major thing is pacing of the story. Pacing is one key opponent of any medium that ever existed. One of my favorite adaptations is Bloom Into You. It's in anime format. It started as a manga series which I did enjoy. The anime made the experience more immersive, perfectly pacing, and kept the story together. It's a perfect adaptation in my opinion.

[@richardgunton9564]

I’ve always found it weird that people dismiss comics as a medium, because manga and comic books just seem to have so much potential.

[@jumpkiller_]

What a perfect time to make a video when NieR: Automata is officially confirmed to become adapted. Automata's story thrives through being told as a video game, so adapting will be interesting.

[@rhonab6698]

I can't even wrap my head around how you even begin to adapt Automata to another medium. I know there are a couple of books but they're spin-offs rather than direct adaptations. Just the thought of trying to marry up the multiple routes that are happening simultaneously + the endings and have it make sense in a medium that isn't the friendliest to non-linear storytelling...

[@koifish8416]

I feel like a large part of the charm and the tone and feeling of nihilism and sadness is the environment of Automata and getting to explore it. I don’t know if an adaptation would be able to capture that feeling. In many ways the world building of Automata doesn’t make sense, it’s supposed to give a feeling and I’m worried they will get rid of that to make it make sense when it doesn’t need to.

[@sVieira151]

I'd argue that technically books can also have a gameplay element - what they lack is the visual and audio elements of video games

[@mattheww9772]

I would say media is essential to meaning. What you can communicate is limited by your medium, which I think is your point, Daniel. Love this, your comedy, your analysis, your roasts and your classic news coverage, it's all solid and I'm all about it. Keep it up.

[@jaysheth1541]

I love to imagine Wheel of Time in Animation with beautiful colours and imageries as they use in some excellent films such as 5 centimetres per second and Garden of Words. And taking it slow. Because the movement of different sequences can be presented amazingly well. The sword forms of Rand and Lan. The expressions of Thom, Nynaeve. The magic of Wheel of Time can be visualised far better in Animation than in Live Action. And episodes can be split up well and time can be given to nuances and so many tiny little stuff that happens in Story. We can have 14 seasons every year without worrying about ageing and appearances of characters.... That will be such a relief and more focus can be given to telling story which is closer in essence to Books. How can live action ever do justice to Gholam sneaking through doors, Snakes and Foxes, Rhuidean, Moridin killing people with True Power, Bigritte saving Elayne, Healing of Gentling and Stilling, World of Dream and need shifting the World of Dreams. There is so much subjectivity to Story that is Wheel of Time that only a moving colourful animated telling can be Fun. The crazy Seanchan animals and Armour of Deathwatch Guards, Egwene fighting with that Rod in Book 12. It all is so brilliantly vivid in my Imagination that I feel Live Action medium for this Story devoid of some juice that ought to flow in Wheel of Time. The bubbles of evil, sightings of Ghosts and Dead People, swirling of colours between Taveren boys, i think Animation can do some justice to Wheel of Time. I too am in love with this story. Much thanks to you and two other American friends one of whom was also Daniel.... Daniel Gray 😊👍🌼

[@echothemyth3160]

I'm trying to think of any way the video game Outer Wilds could possibly be adapted into anything but a video game, and I just can't see it working. How do you take an experience thats designed to be truly non-linear and smash it to fit a linear medium? Most video games don't have this problem, but I think it generally speaks to the value of interaction that you can't disentangle from games very easily. For a story based game, that's when the developer is using the medium to its fullest, I think, when player interaction matters. I haven't played many of the very popular video games, but the best I can explain it is Hollow Kight vs something like Uncharted. This is probably very obvious to most people, but I find it fascinating.

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

I think you are right in this over all, but they can make adaptations that focus on one of the side characters instead of the main character. One of my all time favourite video games is mass effect, one of the first games where what you do in the first game effects the second and third games. I cannot see them making a book, movie, or anything else using the main character, but I could see them using the side characters or even just some of the areas visited in the game to do adaptations.

[@SallyB_23]

I love all the stock footage you use, it's so generic but somehow works so well for your videos😂

[@samhemsley3050]

I would love to see Mariana Enriquez' short stories adapted to a Junji Ito style manga. Her stories definitely have a similar vibe to Ito's (maybe slightly more subtle) but the environment and culture of Argentina would be so unique and beautiful in the form of a manga.

[@ehsanrahee7411]

Speaking of adapting one medium to another, I'm curious on your thoughts about The Legends of Vox Machina. It's a TTRPG adapted into an animated series. I'm mostly saying this because I'd like to see a review, but anyone some commentary on such an adaptation between mediums.

[@ropecrewman36]

I might start watching that show as soon as I'm caught up with AOT. I'm genuinely curious as to how this will turn out

[@ehsanrahee7411]

@@ropecrewman36 it's a really well made adaptation, way truer to the source material than I expected. If only more artists had full control (or at least more control) over their work throughout the whole production process. I will add that you shouldn't let any children watch it. It's DEFINITELY an adult series.

[@s_hiv8255]

My favourite franchise as of right now is the graphic novel/Manga "Kingdom", and to be honest, I think it should just stay as it is in it's own medium. The insanely grand scope of war that it portrays is just too hard to translate properly into another medium. With hundreds of thousands of people being involved in every confilct that the story portrays, adapting it into another medium already looks like a nightmare. While there have been adaptations of the source material, they have been utter garbage compared to the source material. (Except for the live-action movie which was surprisingly valueable) I stil believe that with tbe right amount of funds and the right people working behind it, you could get a good adaptation, but that's wayy too big of a dream as noone cares much about the source material itself. That's why for now, I like Kingdom as it is. If there are adaptations for this, I'll just keep an open mind. Wait to see if they're good. If they aren't, I'm not wasting my time, and if it is, well, then that's just great for me (Kingdom is basically Total war the manga)

[@isopodshuffle]

Kingdom is SO GOOD i saw a picture of Eiichiro Oda's desk once and he had a bunch of Kingdom volumes on the shelf over it, so i gave it a shot and it _blew me away_

[@ahmadiskandarzulkarnain5833]

IMO Kingdom is not that good tho, it was shounen battle manga in disguise in seinen war manga. But i do agree the Kingdom live action adaptation surprisingly is quite good even better then in the manga and anime.

[@arkin5836]

The coalition arc is goated

[@plathskitchenoven]

While I agree that no adaptation *truly* does the manga justice, the anime adaptation of the coalition war was phenomenal. I don't think that a Kingdom anime adaptation can ever really convey the full depth, emotions, brutality, and sheer size of the story, but this last season was the closest we've been, and I think it'll help get even more people into the manga. Maybe through that, an even better produced anime adaptation could happen. Just imagine how awesome a high budget animation of the Zhou invasion arc would be!

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@ahmadiskandarzulkarnain5833 I agree, it's very much a shonen style series pretending to be seinen, a bit like Attack on Titan.

[@steggopotamus]

It's interesting. When it comes to reading books after watching movies. I always envision different people than the actors but it's always in the settings as portrayed in the movies. Edit: also, huh. Im a huge gamer and a light reader. I think the reason why my stories keep stalling, is because I want to write it in a more open ended, choose your own adventure, but seamless videogame style. But I keep pigeon holling myself into "just choose one storyline". Shhiiiiiii.... That's a lot harder.

[@brentsearles9510]

My all time favorite franchise is Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. My first exposure to it was the Peter Jackson films. I watched Fellowship as an 8 year old and remember being a bit scared of the orcs/Uruk-hai. But my best friend's family was hugely into Tolkien, so my initial misgivings were swept away in an onslaught of toys, games, and lore dumps that made me decide I wanted to watch the second one too. After the second, I decided to read The Hobbit and LotR before the third movie came out. I bring up my history with it because to me, adaptation was the crucial step that took place in order to bring me what is now my favorite franchise. I re-read the main 4 books every year, and occasionally pick up one of the others. I have all manner of collectables and always recommend both the books and the movies to people. Given the role adaptation played in my exposure, I ALWAYS root for adaptations. If they get someone interested in something they otherwise never would have heard of, that's awesome! Sure, GoT season 8 was a disaster of epic proportions. Eragon was a travesty. But I read both of those series only after having watched the adaptation. Would I have even heard of them without those? Not sure. While there may be total failures in adapting to a new medium, what's the worst that could happen? People who already weren't going to be interested in the original now aren't going to be interested even harder? Since my favorite series has already seen multiple adaptations in multiple media, I'll go with one of my other favorites: Cosmere. I believe in terms of ability to adapt well, animated would be really solid. However, I'd much prefer live action because that's just my preferred medium to watch a show/movie.

[@Nasser851000]

If you fix the pacing and the story, then people wont have problems with storytelling :)

[@joedan5366]

Legend of vox machina review?

[@yourdad5799]

Very very very unlikely thing

[@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday]

I actually am liking vox machina. I realized right away it was an adaptation of DnD. Lol

[@joedan5366]

@@haveyouhuggedyourreptiletoday of crit roll but yea

[@mercury2110]

The second Narnia book which became the first movie is by far the best adaptation I've ever experienced

[@lspangful]

OH. My. GOD. The Stormlight Archive as an animation series would completely thrive and could accurately visually represent the complex world that Brandon Sanderson has put to page. It’s literally perfect for that type of medium transition.

[@onepresence9460]

Yes! I totally support this!

[@michaelnelson2976]

First thoughts before the video. This feels like a Ratatouille situation. Anyone can be a great chef. Not that all are, but a great chef can come from anyone and any background. A story told from any medium can be incredible, impactful, and masterful. They all can be. But the medium it is told in does factor into an individual's experience. Not a blanket statement that all of *blank* aren't real or good stories, but they all have different ways of engaging an audience member. Podcasts work for me, but maybe someone would interact differently if the story was a graphic novel. And it's important to not be medium-blind either. 1:1 adaptations aren't guaranteed to work. The Expanse TV series really nails the characters so well, but it does have to adjust elements and plot beats to match a TV series format! If it was a copy of the books, it would be worse! Another example, a story told in oral tradition is changed when just read on a page. The storytelling aspect gives it life, Aesop's Fables are dull as cautionary tales on paper, but are imaginative and exciting as an oral story! Even Sanderson says, writing an audiobook means adjusting elements a paper copy would have. So don't be medium-blind with adaptations, and don't make blanket statements about mediums either. Be thoughtful and considerate, actively engage with each story that is being told. But everyone can have their own preferences, that's really fair to keep in mind too.