Why Traditional Strength Programs Simply Don't Work…

[@MarcusB-v1u]

I'd rather be the oldest guy in the gym then the youngest guy in the nursing home!

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Well played!

[@11Suncere]

Bullseye 🎯

[@geo525252]

Boom, mic drop. It's all about staying in the game

[@AlanThrall]

Great insight

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Thank you.

[@Dhobby517]

Easy Strength, Untamed? 🤔 l’ve learned a lot from both of you, thank you!

[@judotaffy]

Hi Dan, i remember reading your website twenty years ago. You were the first good source of information i found about Olympic weightlifting. I wrote you a question and you were good enough to write me a helpful answer. I now run an Olympic weightlifting club, and my daughter has won national championships gold medals in the Uk. I just wanted to say thanks for the great info and keep doing what you do!

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Fantastic! That’s the kind of thing that keeps me going

[@wbadad]

I'm 53 and been doing gym stuff and starting strength for a couple of years, running for four. Lifting heavier weights has made a tremendous difference in my activities and mobility. Compared to my old self I'm doing really well. I'll never be a champion weightlifter but that's just me. Lifting heavier at older ages will absolutely make you a statistical outlier amongst your peers.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

That last line is the absolute truth.

[@cdoedayn]

Excellent value within 10 minutes, can't beat it!

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Thank you!

[@geo525252]

I'm 72 and still weight training. Strength and muscle gains are tough to come by, but possible, and even more difficult to hold on to as the aging process is accelerated. Just life smart, prioritize rest days, and for me, couldn't care less about setting PRs. My PR is I'm still there.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Harry Paschall said something like this in 1954 and I just reread it the other day. That's a truth: priorities change.

[@ianheding7830]

At 12 years younger.. i agree. I tend to do stuff every day. Bending and squating the odd chinup...or pushup.. all low rep (2 - 5) for slow counts... I am happy i can do backbends and pistol- squats (singles) without pain. F... the PRs.. lets enjoy the ability to move as painting free as possible. ;)

[@hbriem]

I'm 62 and I've followed this basic template of 3-5 days, 3-5 exercises, 3-5 sets, 3-5 reps for 21 years. OK, my strength peaked about 10 years ago and has mostly plateaued since then, but I'm still within 5-10% of my all-time best. This year I've squatted 190kg, benched 135kg and deadlifted 220kg at a bodyweight of about 95kg. So I'm doing OK following "traditional strength programs" that simply don't work.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I recommend the same template. Did you listen to the podcast?

[@reaccionapr]

Dan dropping wisdom on every episode. It’s up to all of you to pick it up. 👍🔁✅🛎️

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Much appreciated. Thank you.

[@michaellacy8510]

In my limited experience (68 yo with diabetes and injuries) you can’t just either reduce volume or weight. You might have to do both. Or change exercises for a while. I agree with the advice of listening to your body and do what doesn’t hurt you today.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Excellent point.

[@Ruffrydertitan]

100% agree with you Dan. At 55 Im not able to do high volume + heavy weights like I did in my 20,30,40s. I can still do high volume with moderate weights (8- 12 reps) or heavy weights (1 -5 reps). Like you spoke about, a cyclical program helps recovery, I can do 3 weeks with high intensity, then I can really feel the mental/physical toll its taking, so week 4 is less intensity and next week I feel great again. the younger mindset was just grind through it and as I got into my late 40s resulted in very little/no progress.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

It’s a tough life lesson, but it’s true

[@moopius]

I found swimming was a game changer. It helps with breathing, lung capacity, cardio and flexibility. So I lift 3 times per week and swim 2.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

My friend, Merrill, does the same: he's 91.

[@TheDylan6908]

@ moo... Sounds like a great program.

[@georgeyuhasz3426]

Best use of Ecclesiastes reference in a strength training sermon that I’ve seen yet! 😂. Seriously, thank you for the continued guidance and practical advice!

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@seandunne6005]

Load management is key, as always.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Truth.

[@b17vic]

Thank you Dan 💪🏻

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

You are welcome.

[@mertonhirsch4734]

I am 53 and I don't think I will power squat 435 without wraps again or paused bench 355 again, but I don't think those are in my best interest anyway. I used to be pretty strong with 7 pullups at 200 and standing strict press at 190 but let them go, and currently can do 1 pullup about 90% of the way and press about 105 strict. A also think I can get my hamstrings stronger with swings and glute-ham raises and leg curls. So my focus is on more balanced strength with pullups and presses and being able to sit at the bottom of a deep squat with 200 pounds for a minute. The power bench press and squat are designed to move weight, not build strength. Also focusing on grip and triceps strength and planking, one arm shoulder presses, and picking up 150 pound medicine ball, and also walking with a wheelbarrow, carries and pushing a sled. I can actually run smoothly again and my knees feel great from squat "sits" and also do a lot of hangs from the pullup bar. There is so much that I never got really strong in trying to get to a 1300 pound raw powerlifting total at 198 which I never got to (topped out at 1225 with just a belt at about 210).

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

It’s just the reality of things, I think. Thanks for sharing that.

[@Michael-cb5nm]

Did you get injured? Barely 1 pull-up and a 105 press is very weak even for a 53 year old. I’m 49 and can do 12 pull-ups strict at a body weight of 190, and I don’t consider myself that strong. I was never as strong as you in the bench…with your former strength levels you should be doing more…

[@mertonhirsch4734]

@@Michael-cb5nm I got "impingement" but I think it was from NOT overhead pressing. I used Westside powerlifting type programming with some modifications and I could close grip 320 paused with no arch, triple 315, paused bench 355. When I was 25 I could bench 225 and overhead press 175, but by the time I was benching 355 my best OHP was 190. I'm 5-8 205 and tested at 20.5% bodyfat, but chin-ups were hurt by shoulders too. Seriously, NOT pressing fu*ked up my shoulders. I lost all the upper back/trap supportive muscles that stabilize everything. I was OK in the lower body, did a 302.5 front squat and 405 raw high bar with a pause. It's pretty interesting how I could be weak in several movement patterns. At any rate, I can prioritize pullups and OHP now. Dead hangs for 60s brought my shoulder back to life. When I started to OHP again, I literally began with 1-arm presses with an 8 pound dumbbell and because of all the pec and lat tension, I could barely move my hand straight up overhead.

[@JorisWeima]

​​@@mertonhirsch4734 how do u feel about static stretching after training or on off days? Cuz certain experts say its bullshit and not needed, others say it is. If you say pec and lat tension restricted u a lot in OHP motion then perhaps u just/also needed to simply stretch those muscles more? Curious how u feel about this! Personally I do stretch regularly yet not intensely, because otherwise I simply feel bad from the tension.

[@mertonhirsch4734]

@@JorisWeima I actually tried doing weighted hangs with 15-45 pounds for 30-60 seconds as a stand alone workout. Also did "sits" in the deep squat position in similar fashion. I have started with a Viking press at home putting a landmine in the rack, and I can put the base anywhere from knee-high to the top of my head which takes it to almost straight up and down and lets me stretch under it. 15 years ago, my best OH pressing strength I could do 95 x 2 with a strict 1-arm press, 90 x 3, 85 x 5. Just wondering how that stacks up, is it still way behind relatively speaking? The GOOD news is I can OHP pain free, and it's something new to try to get stronger in in my 50s, and for me it has always transferred to my bench because of what it does for the upper back more than anything.

[@HenchPig]

He should read the barbell prescription book. Best strength training book for older lifters !

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

There are a lot of good strength books. I still like Bosco the best.

[@burntgod7165]

I like Easy Strength.

[@jerryferraiuolo5002]

Starting strength is to focused on setting PRs.

[@HenchPig]

@@jerryferraiuolo5002 Yes because that is how you get stronger. Any strength program that doesn’t have you setting PR’s is not a strength program. You’re just exercising at that point.

[@ByronTexas]

I keep threatening to try a version of Serge Nubret style (but modified for a human) training: 20rm for 12 reps, 30-60 second rests, 5-8 sets per exercise with 3-4 exercises per bodypart. ABC rest ABC rest... I think the weights is what gets us as we get older. Even with this training, strength gains come but it's less structured and "just happens"

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

It’s a great experiment. Let me know how it goes.

[@406dn7]

I discovered the wonder of strength training when coming 65 years old. I'm coming 74 now, so it's been a 9 year journey. I am kind of an outlier at the gym, as no one around my age lifts nearly as much. I think more comments have been made when I do weighted pull ups than the other lifts. A while ago there was a little old lady doing lat pull downs next to where I do pull-ups. Anyway, when I started doing pull ups, she blurted out...oh my god. I got a chuckle out of that one. Being strong in your old age is a priceless blessing.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Love it: Priceless.

[@TheDylan6908]

I think a number of your listeners may have heard of Dr Jonathan Sullivan from "Greysteel" KZbin channel. He wrote the book Barbell Prescription along with another trainer who coaches seniors, Andy Baker. He makes a strong point in there that seniors don't deal well with volume yet require intensity meaning "heavy" so I don't know. He's a pretty smart guy (not that you aren't). MD, PhD, Certified Starting Strength Coach. Are you familiar with him?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I've never really thought "either/or" on this. I see progression as manipulating load, volume (reps and sets), density, and exercise selection. It's hard to cover that answering a question on a podcast without going too long.

[@gnperdue]

Kind of a clickbait tile, but, as always, I'm glad I clicked.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I don't write them but thank you for clicking.

[@gnperdue]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach thanks for making great content!

[@MegaUlysses1234]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach who does come up with the titles for your content Dan? Just curious from a managing content perspective.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Ozzy does this. I leave it alone as I really don't know what to do with this stuff.

[@MegaUlysses1234]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach much thanks Dan. Im trying to learn and always ask “creators” and most importantly, people I like, how they go about their business to see what I can pick up.

[@adamratcliffe4507]

Just started reading . I think it’s going to be another one of those Dan John books where when you get to the end you’re kind of sad it’s over. When is the next book coming out Coach?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I’ve come out with three in the last two years, but I might have a new one coming up soon

[@adamratcliffe4507]

Only 2 😂. You’re awesome coach. Can’t wait to read them

[@adamratcliffe4507]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach definitely going to get the easy strength Omni book after I’m finished with FLHOMs. Coach have you covered substitutes for kettlebell swings on ESFFL? I can’t find a video on that subject

[@MikeC-pd2vq]

Thanks for the insight!!! In your 50’s what did you perceive had more value. A heavy deadlift (Over 405) or a heavy farmers walk (over 150 a hand). Or is it a risk vs reward issue!?!

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I would say both. And you have to think that through.

[@MikeC-pd2vq]

Thank you!!!

[@WenningStrength]

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Thank you

[@The32johnny]

I just do one set per exercise of 10 to 20 reps , get pumped , look good , recover easy , train lots , swim and box still , sweat lots which I feel is important during training , heavy weights for over 50s is to me silly , I've seen a lot of men who have ruined there knees and hips and backs

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Thank you.

[@spcysos]

Big Olympic lifts at an older age unless trained will result in failure. Why not train the same year round with the basic big 4 for all ages with a deload?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

There’s a lot of options beyond that also. Is there a problem with Olympic lifting?

[@spcysos]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoachnothing wrong with a properly trained individual doing any exercise but we know that some Olympic lifts are less risk adverse than traditional powerlifting or body building for an intermediate lifter that continues to add weight to the bar. I’m all for safety over numbers!

[@markleclair8827]

I'm 65 and have been strength training for around 27 years and have found alot of good programs but as you get older you have to adjust the volume and intensity because it's alot harder to recover.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

That's the truth, yes. Recovery is a funny thing as you age...

[@matthewweeks546]

What is the source for the twelve week peak program you mentioned"?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Purposeful primitive?

[@matthewweeks6891]

​@DanJohnStrengthCoach possibly! It was the 12 week one you suggested for fall by Dave Martin. I couldn't find it anywhere. I've never done a structured program before but I'm going to try it to keep consistent this year while work and responsibilities are piling up

[@christianstreit950]

Hey Dan, are you familiar with the work of Indian trainer and professional athlete Rishi Remesh? - Just stumbled across his videos and I really think he's got a lot of great ideas - similar to your approach but still different. A very interesting short video to learn about his training style would be the following : "UNCONVENTIONAL FULL BODY WORKOUT WITH KETTLEBELLS AND STEEL MACE"....

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Thank you for this. No, I don't recognize the name.

[@brotherlittlefoot2216]

Great video,as always!... I cannot stress enough for the need for older lifters to move to heavy duty resistance bands. Though they have some issues -no more than weights,using heavy duty resistance bands just doesn't kill the joints and I can still get down to low reps and struggle w them. Costs a decent penny to get a good set (150.00 - 400.00),but they have lasted me a looooong time so far,and I look and feel great. No one will lose gains using heavy duty bands.

[@farstrider79]

I don't really understand what the difference is. All your body feels is resistance, it doesn't matter from what. 25lbs of dumbbell vs 25lbs of resistance band........ I'm not trying to be rude or dismissive, I just don't understand.

[@brotherlittlefoot2216]

@@farstrider79 Then maybe u should research 1st? No,it's not the same on your joints,and it's a variable resistance depending on where you are in the lift. There are plenty of studies saying that resistance bands are better than weights overall.With weights,you are lifting heavy weight - literally. With bands,you are just working against force - literally. Years of weight lifting catches up w joints (you're kind of young,aren't you? Bc you would know this.) Years of working w resistance bands,and I only feel the soreness in my muscles. I also still use weights for many movements,just not the big compounds.

[@farstrider79]

@@brotherlittlefoot2216 I'm a 44 year old construction worker that also lifts weights. You could say that I'm familiar with aches and pains. Thanks for answering my question, I was researching by asking questions.

[@brotherlittlefoot2216]

@@farstrider79 Wasn't insulting you,just wondering how you didn't know about heavy duty resistance bands. Look up Clench Fitness resistance bands;they go up to 400 lbs of force.

[@brotherlittlefoot2216]

@@farstrider79 You can also look into isometrics - which does 100% work.

[@irishseven100]

You’ll find out everything you need to do if you just read my book or not😮

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I've read this a couple of times and I can't understand what you are saying here...sorry.

[@K4R3N]

Yeah doing Starting Strength also for a year now. I'm 46yo and in the same boat. Thanks for answering this question.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

My pleasure. Thanks for responding.

[@elobiretv]

If your doing the program correctly you should be done with it within a year. I made the same mistake of hanging onto starting strength for too long and a lot of it like the squat volume was just wearing me down.

[@K4R3N]

@@elobiretv yes I was progressing nicely for about 9 months

[@K4R3N]

@@devilselbow yes it works in the beginning like its name implies.

[@Dundertaker1]

Just an FYI..the last few SPOTIFY podcasts, you sound like you're on your PC mic vs. the one on your desk. Can't really hear you...something isn't right.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I don’t know what’s going on. Nothings changed on my end. If they work on KZbin, that’s where most people listen. But I can ask.

[@Dundertaker1]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach It sounds the same here....like you're on the PC mic...but the levels are better. I run a similar setup, and sometimes the "default" can change. Again, just an FYI. Stepped up my ABC to 20KG from 16KG this AM. 55 yo M...Wife jump from 16lbs to 20lbs...56...Making those GAINS!

[@boristurnsek9521]

I hear him great as usual

[@boristurnsek9521]

Kind a lost what is the conclusion? Variety is good for the older lifters and volume is not bad?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Variety and volume are good.

[@TheAyatollahofNofappollah]

😊

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Thank you.

[@user-xh3lb1ov3t]

The reason you can't lift heavier in a gym when your older is because you have been training for decades and you've reached the ceiling for that exercise nothing to do with being older. If you have a properly planned program it will have nothing to do with your ligaments etc being older. Most people haven't got a clue how often and which exercises to use that's why they are always looking for the holy grail. Volume is not going to hurt you when your young or old just simply don't goto failure you can then do 5sets no problem and you will get stronger because your body will need to adapt to the exercise

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

The evidence doesn't support this. I only need to look at Masters O lifting records to show you this. I've been O lifting since 1975 and I can't even get close to my big lifts in my 30s. The bar hasn't changed, I have my same DNA, but things happen.

[@jerryferraiuolo5002]

​@Bloozguy a wise man that was in his 70s when I was 45 told me it's just like sex. When you hit your 70s it just like sex, you can do it but just not as often. I now know it's the truth.

[@johntiller6966]

But can the weightlifters do handstands and backflips? Isn’t that a more realistic definition of health?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

You are confusing health with fitness/performance. Lee James, 1976 silver medalist in the 198 class used to do back flips after PRs; John Grimek was famous for his hand balancing...among all the other classic lifters. Moreover, like the guy who bitched me out about Burpees (Royal Burpee, the inventor, must struggle in his afterlife), many of the points I see on KZbin seem to confuse the ability to do a task, fitness, with a measurement across all humanity. If longevity is the answer, the oldest person "wins." If strength is the answer, the greatest clean and jerker or deadlifter wins...

[@JorisWeima]

@@johntiller6966 yes it is. Hence, 99,99% of the population can be defined as unhealthy!😜

[@elobiretv]

How often do you have to do a backflip in day to day life? I bet you have to squat down to pick something up far more often...

[@charlitoadams777]

Mike Mentzer

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Is there something I am missing with this?

[@charlitoadams777]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach Mike Mentzer would agree with the title of your video. Never felt stronger at 44 following his HIT program. He should of beaten Arnold Schwarzenegger back in 1980 for Mr. Universe.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

An old debate. That’s my issue with bodybuilding and Miss America pageants. I’m no fan of judges picking the winner.

[@bumpercoach]

gains are NOT RELEVANT in the wrong timeframe ... the further back (even more than this month or today) the less relevant since it likely means you werent training to your best potential back in your teens-20s so are shooting fish in a barrel to be getting lifetime PRs over 40

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

It's hard to follow this as it is typed out...was there an issue?

[@DARTH-KTULU]

Get to an easy strength standard to remember. For example, if you’re over 200 lbs, aim for a 225 OHP, a 315 Bench, a 405 Squat, at 3x5 and 500 Deadlift for 1x5. Then maintain a 1x5 top set on each for one set of each a week. Do a couple back off sets with 70-80% at higher reps, maybe do some machine and cable work. You can literally do Bench on Monday, Squat on Tuesday, Press on Thursday, Deadlift on Friday for one set and maintain your strength.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Thanks for the tips!

[@iswearallthetime]

Volume is definitely the killer for the older lifter...if they have a weak mind and crap attitude.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I'm not sure I understand this.

[@bobbytate9907]

Is it me or has Dan got younger this year???

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Far less life stress...by like a million times less.

[@bobbytate9907]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach I'm glad, my man. Be well.