Dao Vua Gyuto Review - Leaf Spring Vietnamese Made Knife - 240mm

[@scottmichaelbeltz]

I saw in a different video you questioned the hardness claims of the manufacturer and felt they overestimated it. Regarding this knife, do you believe their claims of 60hrc? Do you think maybe with some grinding work or sharpening this could be an excellent cheap option for a knife (would it hold up to every day use is what I'm getting at)?

[@chefpanko]

When it came to the Chinese made knives and the unknown brands, some are definitely overestimated. But the claim of 60 +/- 2 is technically not wrong, but they never went over 60, so technically, their claim is still correct 58 to 60. But most of them sit between 59/60. As for Dao Vua, it is indeed around 60 or slightly lower but definitely not above 60. The difference from Dau Vua's hardness to another knife or steel of a Rockwell of 60 has more to do with the forging technique. The Dau Vua is a one steel construction and not sandwiched with softer stainless steel ''san-mai'' means 3 layers in Japan. - Western knives are most commonly mono-steel (one layer), so they are often limited to hardness below 60. (Even premium steels are risky above 60 in a mono construction). - True Damascus. Multi-layer construction with no discrete core material. This is generally not as strong as other constructions since multiple stress risers are on the cutting edge. - San-mai (3-layer / sometimes Damascus pattern) with a harder core and softer (and usually more stain-resistant outer layers). These blades can have a practical hardness limit above 60. - Honyaki (differential heat treated mono-steel). These can be hardened above 60 but generally are not as desirable as san mai for ultimate hardness/strength. reduce the stress on the harder core The one steel construction will feel stiffer than a san-mai construction. The san main construction uses a thinner core material but can reach a higher Rockwell above 60. It is more bendable because of the softer outer layer, increasing the stress on the harder core in the middle. One of the reasons it can be heat treated above 60. The Dao Vua is a one-layer construction. It is stiffer, and anything above a Rockwell of 60 will cause that the knife will eventually break; therefore, the Dao Vua will not be heat treated above 60 but will sit more between 59/60. So yes, I believe the claim of 60 or slightly lower but definitely not higher. It will hold up everyday use. Don't be aggressive (going through bones, frozen food, etc.) with it, and you should be fine. This knife 100% needs a sharpening session out of the box. The sharpness is inconsistent, just like the distal taper on the spine and the profile tapering up with some thin spots. If you don't want to fix all the other things since this knife is a project knife, I would suggest a Masutani knife. It is around $20 more expensive, but in return, you get a san-mai construction hammered finish, completely polished and evenly finished across the blade, and there is no sharpening needed out of the box. Keep in mind that Matsutani himself is very old, and his knife currently is being made by a team of 3/5. While he still does the quality control, not everything will be done by Matsutani himself. While he now trains others to keep producing his knives, he himself will eventually retire, but his knife brand will remain but then made by someone else. Hope that this answers your question. Feel free to ask more :)

[@scottmichaelbeltz]

@@chefpanko Yeah, that definitely answered my question and was way more than I expected. I really appreciate it.I will look into Masutani today. I was browsing around some more last night and came across a san-mai Grandsharp knives claiming an AUS-10 core and 430 outer with a hammered finish leaving the a kurouchi finish although they didn't actually call it that. It's really the look/style I enjoy but I'm fearful with COVID that something could go wrong in getting the order here to the United States. I'm also inherintly mistrustful of any companies claims until either testing it myself or someone else. So, I'm afraid that if I ordered a few knives out of that line that it could be much lower quality steel than AUS10. They do have a video showing the san-mai process but unfortunately I don't speak the language and no subtitles were offered. At least Masutani gives me some more options to look at. Thank you again.

[@chefpanko]

@@scottmichaelbeltz Matsutani knives do not have any Kurouchi finish, they are completely polished they also do not have a lot of options in NA or EU. But for what they deliver and the price they sell them for is is a knife for an amazing value compared to other knives from Japanese knife artisans/blacksmiths. As for Grandsharp, the knife you are talking about has a very rough Kurouichi finish, the AUS10 claim is questionable especially since the knife itself is sold for around $40. This means that either the finish is not good or the handle is made cheaply. The side finish is probably not finished either and not polished at all. As for import tax, and state tax I have no idea how the USA calculates it since I'm from Europe. The videos they show are questionable from all Chinese brands. Grandsharp products fluctuate from quility since I have tested a few from them. But for the price, there is not much to complain about. The VG10 claims form Chinese manufacturer is still questionable for me even after testing so many knives from China (most also sell the VG10 and AUS10 as a Chinese version which is called 10cr15comov). Calling 10cr15comov a Chinese VG10 or Chinese AUS10 is just wrong and in my eyes misleading marketing. 10cr15comov is good steel but not all brands deliver the same quility one of the ones that delivers good 10cr15comov is Xinzuo.

[@scottmichaelbeltz]

@@chefpanko I appreciate all the information. If they are claiming AUS10 or V10 equivalence I wouldn't be that disappointed if they just outright said it instead of trying to pass it off as one or the other. I'm curious if that's what's going on with Grandsharp. Thanks for the heads up on Xinzuo. I'll definitely check them out as well. I'm fine with Chinese steel as long as there's quality control - which is hard to know unless you've tried it or someone else has. I've had a lot of good quality Chinese made products and a lot of questionable ones. Quality control (and/or company standards) makes a big difference. Thanks again.

[@chefpanko]

@@scottmichaelbeltz Yeah most of the time when I contact them directly and ask them for proof of the steel they answer with equivalence to AUS10, VG10. But more and more are finally changing the description and it is way better than 2 years back. But with all the resellers (that have the wrong specs or don't know the real specs themself) it is still confusing. Quility control is something they need to improve as for Xinzuo they have a consistent quility control. Good luck in finding a knife that suits you as a cook :)

[@tagontag]

This is such a beautiful knife. Comparatively, this video also highlight the level of skills and precision the Japanese knifemakers have perfected compared to other knifemakers around the world.

[@chefpanko]

I also like the knife aesthetic, Japanese knife artisan standards have improved a lot (with upgraded modern tools). But Dao Vua has something unique which I like and know how they are made helps with my decision for liking it. But for those that don't know the backstory and how they are made the knife is unfinished which they call ''project knife,'' they will most likely be disappointed especially when they are used to Japanese knives from Japanese blacksmiths.

[@mfreeman313]

I like the idea of these knives and bought a petty just to see what I'd get. I can certainly accept and appreciate the rustic aesthetic of it, enjoy sharpening, and am willing to touch the knife up as needed. The realistic review of the pros and cons involved is very much appreciated. I wish there were more brokers willing to do the research and other work necessary to bring knives made by skillful small-scale Asian artisans to an international market.

[@chefpanko]

Thank you for the comment. I wish for the same, as most of the time, it brings more eyes to the knife brand/artisans, and you don't have to deal with warranty/returns to a foreign country. Shipping costs back and forth will be expensive, but it is much simpler with local retailers and, in some cases, even free as they make a pre-paid return label. Unfortunately, we here in Europe (The Netherlands) are lacking behind in available options wish we can catch up faster (but already happy with the few specialized knife import stores). American knife import retailers have so many options!!!

[@karenkrugel342]

Great review. Love your specificity about the blade and handle uniqueness due to man made process. Presenting is authentic, feels like informative and trustworthy content.

[@Nikeel_A.W]

I just got one of these, luckily it was not warped or twisted. I'm going to put it through 1000/6000 whetstone, and give the black end a slightly lighter finish with some sand paper. If I can remove the belt sander scratches on the bevel with some sand paper, and get a decent polish on it, with an even nicer mirror finish in the blade with the diamond compound strop this knife will look really really good. Honestly for anyone who can work on their blade, this knife is a steal at its price.

[@chefpanko]

I think I was unlucky the seller also told me that they normally check the knife condition before sending it to customers. Have fun with your project! :) I have seen some of them giving the knife a complete mirror finish and some even replace the handles. They really made a project knife very beautiful, and they are buying this knife as most sellers sell them as ''project knife''. I agree, as a non-project person myself just giving it a new edge is good enough if you get a knife that comes straight.

[@Macdaddy590]

So i have a very nice sword from Vietnam, and is bendable steel. I do not know how to sharpen this sword correctly, as i am unsure what steel it is exactly. How can i check?

[@chefpanko]

The best bet would be to ask the seller if possible but a sword is made with a different process. As I have no knowledge about swords won't have a clue what the best way would be to sharpen a sword. I do know that they use differential heat treatments on them to get a specific part stronger etc, but swords are an entirely different world for me to be able to help. Hope you can find the answer from the seller, or other Sword Enthusiasts :)

[@tommyle628]

Hi Chef, Vietnamese chef knife enthusiast and hobbyist knife maker here. Dao Vua is basically a no no place to buying knife in our community and country. They are overpriced and under engineered. You'll be finding better makers like Hoc Kieu who use all of the modern tools and scientific methods while keeping the traditional handforging. Cheers!

[@chefpanko]

Thank you for your comment, I will have to visit Vietnam in person to see what they all have to offer definitely on my bucket list of countries to visit! The bigger problem overall is getting a brand into the hands of reputable/well-known retailers, some are reluctant to list an unknown brand on their retail/online store. Hence I'm certain there will be a lot of great brands, but without them being offered to reputable retailers around the world it is hard to find them or to recommend (especially with limited sales options).

[@eediot69]

Close to $100 AUD here in Australia ( ~$65 USD), same price I paid for the Keemake Bunka (which just arrived today after 2 months... luckily my blade was straight :) Would you consider the Dao Vua to be worth the asking price? PS: Can you get Kiwi (Thai made) knives over in the Netherlands? Would love to see you review one.

[@chefpanko]

Personally, I would say yes, but that is because I knew what I was going to buy and know how they were made with all the flaws that comes with the knife. The aesthetic and back story is what spoke to me and that is what makes the price worth it. The knife is also very stiff because of the one layer construction which I personally like a lot. My original plan and the requested knife was the 210mm. I tried 2 resellers and I think I was unlucky or something. I decided to ask for my money back and search for a different reseller. The other reseller canceled my order and told me that they actually check each knife before it goes out for major performance breaking defect (and the last 210mm had some flaws that was not acceptable to their standards). And they asked me if I wanted the 240mm instead of the price of the 210mm (which was the knife in this video that I'm happy with). But for someone that did not know anything about it and comes from a different knife brand, or knife artisan it may not be worth the price for them. Because what does the seller specify as a ''project knife''? (I do like to pay extra for the layer of warranty and return option instead of buying it from them directly through Instagram). I have the Kiwi knives I will do a review on them but can't promise a date.

[@AdventuresofCarlienne]

At first I didn’t like the shape of it but it’s growing on me. Great review!

[@chefpanko]

The shape needed some adjusting for me but it was fairly easy for me to adapt. So definitely an aggressive curve at the front and interesting take on the knife profile. First I was unsure about the profile later, I kinda like it and slowly started liking it more and more (it took me faster to adjust and to like the profile normally I need more time when it comes to a profile I'm not familiar with).

[@propwash6880]

Have you used this knife more? The black area (paint?) has come off of mine. I'm kind of disappointed. Handles and metal are nice and keep an edge but not happy that the black part comes off.

[@chefpanko]

A blacksmith finish is an unfinished blade where they don't grind the blacks away (some don't even polish it and leave it very rough). This will eventually slowly come off over time or if you use acidic food like lemons, alcohol, etc. While they say the black is not toxic, it is a choice everyone should make before deciding to go for a blacksmith finish. To maintain the finish or leave it alone for a long time when you go on a vacation, it is advisable to oil the knife with some mineral oil to preserve the finish. Some bought the knife to polish it themself so they use sandpaper to remove the blacks that is another option.

[@propwash6880]

@@chefpanko Thanks for confirming. That's what the US vendor said. I did not know the validity of it. This is also great information for future purchases. Thanks Chef!

[@Scrappydog]

I really like the look of this one!

[@chefpanko]

I like the aesthetic too, the rustic look and the hammered markings look very good on this knife.

[@Artbane]

Hey Panko, just dropping by. I really like the background music and I can hear your English is improved! Good stuff keep on going :)

[@chefpanko]

Thank you for the nice comment :) Will try to improve each time with new feedback glad that you can hear the improvements!

[@BrunoMontenegroBR]

Another great review. Chef's Panko quality seal!

[@chefpanko]

Thank you :)

[@nadtz]

I've seen a few knives by this maker, seems interesting if you like this kind of knife (which I do).

[@chefpanko]

I really like the knife looks, it is like a knife from the old age without modern tools to perfect the knife to today's Japanese knife standards. Despite the old/rustic look, the knife is self is good and will last just as long as the new modern knives and modern knife standard while it may not look like it. Very happy with discovering the Dao Vua :) it may not be for everyone when they compare it to today's standards.

[@damiancanteros]

I like to think that some things should last for life. I don't have the confidence this knife would last that long. However the knife looks nice.

[@chefpanko]

The knife will probably last for a long time (even a lifetime), it may not seem like it but this has more to do with how the knife comes out of the box (bubble plastic). It is basically unfinished, quility control is not up to the modern standard, so they are really going back in time (but since it is Vietnam is a less developed country it makes sense that the knife is how they are). While the Japanese knife artisan has upgraded their tools and standards for the modern age. It is something different and the rustic/ old style of knife making shows really nicely on this knife. This adds to the aesthetic a lot (but in order to like it we need to adjust our expectations).

[@lehung8309]

cty này có lẽ muốn làm nổi lên cái chất thủ công nên không fix những lỗi nhỏ trong bài.

[@TezNguyen]

Yo I'm Vietnamese but I've never knew that Dao Vua is made by us...nani? For real? I know they're trash but....good attempt though...

[@chefpanko]

Yeah if you live in Vietnam you can get their knives for $10 to $15 USD (for a Gyuto you can also order them directly on their Instagram page or WhatsApp). And for that price, there are 0 complaints but with the shipment and import tax, the price will be around $50/$60 USD to import one knife unless you buy 3 or more then it is beneficial to order from them directly. But very cool to see a knife brand from a place like Vietnam and making it to the western market. (and considering the work condition and tools they use I must say that I'm surprised). If compared with Japanese standards they lack a lot, so definitely a project knife (in some cases a big project since you may even want to grind the sides away or even put a new handle if they don't come straight but twisted).

[@mfreeman313]

Every Vietnamese commenter says there are better knives there, but the only similar product I'm aware of here in the States is Kitchen Knives.ID from Indonesia. I have one of their bunkas and it's certainly more sophisticated. But I think for some people the lack of sophistication might be part of the appeal.

[@swapnilmule3922]

Very curvy...cant chop straight downwards with this knife.

[@chefpanko]

The profile is indeed curvy especially at the front, it took me some time to adjust to it. So it is not for everyone's preference. They do have cleaver styled knives with straighter profiles.

[@langrenviet329]

This is a product of Vietnam, but this brand is really not good, in Vietnam there are many better products than that.

[@chefpanko]

Thank you, do you know a few brands that are well known in Vietnam and are also sold outside of Vietnam?

[@langrenviet329]

@@chefpanko There are a number of brands that are not currently sold to foreign countries, of which most knives are made from sanmai steel, widely used in Vietnam, by traditional craft villages.

[@chefpanko]

Thank you for the answer hope to see more knife brands to release their knives outside their own country. I have seen a few village knives from Vietnam they look very interesting (knife/tool for more purposes) and very specific to that village.

[@langrenviet329]

I'm a blacksmith too, but I don't know how to ship products internationally

[@chefpanko]

@@langrenviet329, some of them, contact a few distributors and webshops directly, but most of them need to build a brand name, or the webshop is willing to list an unknown brand. Another option is Alibaba(.com), a business platform to business (B2B), and let the distributors/webshop find your knives there. Most manufacturers have a minimum order set and special pricing for distributors/webshops. (and there are some contracts and papers, kinda out of my field of expertise so can't help you any further)