Dark Depths got broken again... - Modern Horizons 3

Can you believe it, Wizards broke Dark Depths again thanks to Mutated Cultist from MH3 Commander.
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[@graog123]

How can you NOT think of Dark Depths when printing that!? There's simply no way that this interaction wasn't their express intent

[@attackoncardboard]

It's just 30 power worth of creatures on Turn 2 while exile-ing both your lands and being near uncounterable 😂

[@qedproqwo1634]

Also shifting woodlands

[@ameliaward7429]

Oh, you still believe that actual people are playtesting cards. That is kinda sad tbh.

[@androkguz]

Legacy is broken in a myriad ways. You don't playtest for legacy. You just let different broken things duke it out and *maybe* you ban something if it becomes a problem

[@kage9543]

I think they made this card as a way to interact with energy counters since they brought that back

[@whosilence]

Turn 0 gemstone caverns Turn 1 depths, dark ritual, cultist

[@attackoncardboard]

The things you can do in Magical Xmas land! 😂

[@bricknolty5478]

​@attackoncardboard That's only 5 cards in your opening hand, vs your scenario of 5 cards in your opening hand + 1 draw step

[@marcoottina654]

​@@bricknolty5478so you mean ... 4 cards In Both cases?

[@bricknolty5478]

@@marcoottina654 exactly, they're both Magical Christmas Land lol

[@user-qw3oh3dx1o]

Tbh I turn 5 dark depths all the time and all it does is have someone work indestructible on a token which is easier done than said

[@gozmit97]

Not to mention the Woodlands can copy depths, sacrifice itself dur to having no counters and also getting you Marit Lage

[@attackoncardboard]

It's all coming together...

[@kylecote7261]

Mirror box, Marit Lage Tribal

[@WitchingMoon88]

Legend rule. Good thought though

[@WitchingMoon88]

Mirror Box would work

[@jiaan100]

​@@WitchingMoon88 The other dark depths is in your gy, legend rule doesn't stop this. Legend rule applies when you copy depths with thespians stage, but you sacrifice the old one with counters to the legend rule and keep the new one, so it still works.

[@samanderson6488]

Looks like stifles back on the menu boys!

[@attackoncardboard]

"And where did that bring you, back to me."

[@williamdrum9899]

Stifling dark depths does nothing, as it will simply trigger again to create Marit Lage anyway

[@samanderson6488]

@williamdrum9899 you stifle the black creatures ability so it never removes the counters.

[@richardboss2892]

Depths is one of my all-time favorite cards. Any time a new card comes out that works with it is just gravy.

[@mediocritysbest6220]

We did guys. We broke dark depths

[@attackoncardboard]

They can't keep getting away with this!

[@nikolmorith800]

Turn 1: Thespian's Stage, Tap Stage to play Sol Ring Turn 2: Play Dark Depth's, Tap Sol Ring to use Stage to copy Dark Depth and it sacs to become Marit Lage. Turn 3: Watch Marit Lage get turned into a basic land with Path to Exile. Be labeled the Archnemesis rest of game. Lol

[@MithDragon]

I take Depths combos out of my edh decks for this reason. For my Omo deck I swapped out the dark depths for a Mazes end and it works wonderfully as a backup win con rather than a cheese combo I hope to pull off and keep on board for several rotations of attacking.

[@nikolmorith800]

@MithDragon That's pretty awesome. I was looking at using Maze and the Gates for an alt win con. I saw someone using the gates for pretty decent mana acceleration, too. That's what gave me the idea. This makes me want to do it even more. ^.^

[@kirbyhypno2522]

Aside from that use, I'm happy to have a nice and simple way of finally removing experience counters. I always struggle to find cards that assust with that

[@colboy1fish]

When I read the card my first tought was "That works for battles, doesn't it?"

[@marcoottina654]

There is a white cleric doing the same

[@DarthSnugglePuss]

Also removing poison counters from an opponent as a politicking piece!

[@durttheelder4035]

I thought for battles removing the counters doesn't give you the backside you had to kill it in combat ​@@colboy1fish

[@erisdiscordia5429]

Oh shit, my creatureless poison deck just shit itself.

[@attackoncardboard]

You cant target yourself with the Cultist ;)

[@erisdiscordia5429]

Oh wait, lol, you're right, nevermind. My deck will continue eating everyone.

[@kelp-ist3469]

@@erisdiscordia5429they can use it to give one of your opponents another turn or two

[@SuperTheNobody]

could also use that cost reduction for a void winnower to invalidate half your opponents cards

[@sethb3090]

Bro I can't even

[@WillRennar]

@@sethb3090 According to the official rulings on the card: *_Yes. We know._*

[@sethb3090]

@@WillRennar but of course

[@einsUNDcolt]

And this is why WotC needs to print more stifle effects

[@439801RS]

Or just think for a second...

[@berto6050]

Throw in a solemnity, works too. Take Nine Lives while you're at it. Then a Luminous Broodmoth for creatures that only exile will get rid of

[@Layjus123]

It still dies to removal. By "it" I mean the opponent dies to turn 2 removal.

[@Anonymous______________]

Modern Horizons 3: Eldrazi Resurgence

[@dorping_Wolf]

because Hexmage dark depths turn 2 was not strong enough, now you get an ulamog on top of it...

[@nonameimpotantlive9233]

sad banned i mordern noices

[@noadaenderninja]

I have this combo in my commander deck, its funny when people dont expect you to cast a 2 mana Ema at flash speed.

[@rac2300]

Marit Lage is an eldrazi confirmed? Lol

[@coltonkinder1424]

Thanks for the tip. I'm not crazy about the timing, but I wouldn't object to this a little later in the game with Crop Rot backup. Essentially 8 copies of Hexmage.

[@alexMendoza-wl5oj]

Dark depths into ulamog is exactly what I was thinking

[@attackoncardboard]

It's like it was meant to be 😂

[@armyofmeh]

This is very well edited.

[@attackoncardboard]

Thank you! It's been a long journey, I cringe watching my older videos 🤣 I hope you enjoy the rest of the content 😃

[@kalamander8563]

Wait, this also hits experience counters, doesn't it? I think that's the first card that does so?

[@attackoncardboard]

Mutated Cultist can remove your opponents experience counters!

[@sorin_markov]

Suncleanser

[@kalamander8563]

@@sorin_markov I didn't even know about this card. Very cool!

[@windiesel2826]

Good thing they play Stifle in Legacy...

[@TheJcjonesacp]

Welcome to dark depths 2 electric boogaloo!

[@jj209th6]

Why they didn’t specify a permanent an opponent controls is beyond me. This is clearly meant to be a way to interact with energy counters since it was released in the same set as a bunch of energy support, but it also works great against problematic planeswalkers or +1/+1 counter heavy decks. Allowing you to drain your own counters was a terrible idea.

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

Draining your own counters is clearly intended as a downside which gives you a proportional upside. Blame dark depths being one of the only cards in the game where counters are detrimental and losing them is beneficial.

[@cassiuspeter9673]

I'm sorry, I think I missed something. Cultist is 3 mana, but for turn 2, we have 1 land and dark depths, which doesn't tap for ... oh, right. Yavimaya makes dark depths tap for mana.

[@RustedKing]

Using the new simic precon I got a marit Lage out turn 4, then got a 2nd one after the first died

[@taylon5200]

I figured this combo out as a brand new player the day the precons dropped. I moved the depths from the tricky terrain deck to the Eldrazi one, looked at these pieces together and immediately started laughing. It's gross how fast you can achieve it too, if you get both cards early on.

[@ssoftpaw8863]

We did it guys we broke dark depths

[@doctorexam6164]

Stifle is definitely going to be used more

[@Quiron1985]

Never stopped playing Stifle...

[@mathieuroy1802]

Turn 1 dark depts, turn 2 vesuva, 20/20 flying indestructible. But yours is better since you can cast something afterwards

[@attackoncardboard]

Unfortunately, due to copy effects, Vesuva *will* also enter with 10 ice counters, so no 20/20. The land you're looking for is Thespian's Stage.

[@Nirashi]

Lmaooooo the again killed me

[@attackoncardboard]

How can they keep doing it? 😂

[@Nirashi]

@attackoncardboard they cant keep getting away with it!!!!!

[@gingerplz1]

“Round 2” that’s cute.

[@attackoncardboard]

As in you think turn 2 is too slow for Legacy?

[@matthewutech5970]

While EDH has more broken things, Thassa's and demonic consultation currently banned in Legacy last I checked. The only other (as in not lands.dec) consistent sub turn 2 win I can think of in legacy is Char-belcher & occasionally Ant; and those can still get force'd / Flusterstormed, unlike this combo.

[@El_Chico_des_Galos]

I must never let my friend know this

[@sebbbi2]

We already had Urborg + Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage on turn 2. One less card. New card is 1 more mana but uncounterable effect. But we already had better uncounterable combo with Thespian’s Stage. Both fetchable with Crop Rotation at instant speed for EOT 20/20 -> win. I don’t think anybody will play this in Legacy.

[@christopherflanagan9626]

Why do any of that when I could just play a bunch of tribal creatures and lose on turn 7?

[@yamibakura1337]

Cast triggers is exactly why I hate Eldrazi's

[@legendsofmichael4315]

Eldrazi are just so broken

[@Nuzzlock08]

I don’t play legacy, is stifle or any stifle like effects legal?

[@attackoncardboard]

Stifle is definitely legal in Legacy. If this combo becomes more apparent, Stifle play will certainly rise.

[@matthewutech5970]

Stifle effects are legal, but weren't that commonly used outside of stifle-naught '2 mana 12/12 and Delver 'one mana monoblue land destruction'

God forbid that you might use crop rotation to make you you get the bloody land you need.

[@attackoncardboard]

Why would God forbid that?

Oh, yknow making it even more consistent to get Yavimaya or Dark Depths.

[@attackoncardboard]

Oh I understand your point now. I thought you were being facetious 😅

Haha, fair.

[@Pers0n97]

Dark depth was a mistake as it locked wizard out of any counter removal manipulation. Ironically enough, it would have been better from a design standpoiny to make it stack counters rather than remove them.

[@attackoncardboard]

Vampire Hexmage? The Phyrexian one with the activated ability? There was also the zombie from War of the Spark.

[@Pers0n97]

@@attackoncardboard Oh I know all of thos, and all of them have created problem with Dark Depths which is exactly why I said it should have been a card that stack counter rather than remove them, sure there is a lot of way to stack faster these days, but it would still be less binari than all these counter cleansers are.

[@schaedli177]

or if you have ONE spare red mana available somehow you could try to fling lage in the enemy face just winning right there

[@attackoncardboard]

Fling and Lage have been in Legacy for ages, if it's not a thing now, this new combo doesn't add anything more.

[@livedandletdie]

This is why Stifle is cheap.

[@josehenriquefornari1508]

Ban in 3, 2, 1...

[@reynastrange2828]

It also has devoid, so the casting trigger can be copied by Echoes of Eternity and Ulalek, Fused Atrocity

[@attackoncardboard]

Yup! But you'll need something else with a bunch of counters to make use of that second cultist trigger. Worth pointing out that Echos will trigger Dark Depth twice, but the tokens are Legendary 😅

[@reynastrange2828]

@@attackoncardboard Now I’m trying to think of what the best secondary targets would be. Opponent’s counters are obviously good (I especially love the idea of draining your opponent’s Ulamog, the Defiler), or if you have poison counters, but it’s better to run your own guaranteed combos, typically. Similar to Dark Depths you could drain ice counters from Thing in the Ice, but I feel like draining age counters from cards with cumulative upkeep is another good way to go. I can’t find anything nearly as good as Dark Depths though, alas

[@attackoncardboard]

Dont forget, you cant target yourself with Cultist!

[@reynastrange2828]

@@attackoncardboard You’re right! My mistake

[@anthonywolf943]

I would like to remind people that void mirror does exist. One sideboard can wreck this.

[@attackoncardboard]

Void Mirror doesn't stop you from getting Marit Lage though

[@anthonywolf943]

@@attackoncardboard ;) Path to Exile was already in the deck. With Void sideboard you say no free spell and Path the Marit Lage, you get a swamp.

[@attackoncardboard]

@@anthonywolf943 ;) but I play Force of Will heheh... We can play the MTG "but I have this" game until the end of time.

[@anthonywolf943]

@@attackoncardboard but that's the point of a side board

[@saw8814]

Yes but making Marit Lage is better at instant speed so I think only 1 or 2 copies will make the 75

[@addieee333]

this just will not see play in legacy (which you mentioned). this costs 1 more mana than hexmage, and is not a land (like thespian's stage), which are the two things it competes with. furthermore, the mana cheating clause is near useless unless you're putting uncastable cards in your deck like ulamog or whatever garbage doesnt work without this card, where youre unnecessarily adding a c to your a +b combo.

[@imstupid880]

Wizards not caring once again

[@attackoncardboard]

How so?

[@imstupid880]

@@attackoncardboard just feels like lately Wizards has been reprinting/making new cards just to have a shiny new broken card to sell without thinking much about the larger scope of things. For example, Deadly Cover-up, because recursable mass exiling basics from deck is definitely a great idea for a card.

[@raymondvillanueva999]

how do you cast cultist on turn 2

[@attackoncardboard]

Yavimaya makes everything a Forest, so Dark Depths gains the ability "Tap: Add G"

[@Netro1992]

How likely was that whiff in match 2? do you think you might have been too aggressive with that particular line, or the cards you saw would not have allowed for any other option?

[@attackoncardboard]

Wrong video perhaps? 😅

[@Netro1992]

@@attackoncardboard for whatever reason you got my comment for mtg gameplay and the epic storm got my comment about how my favourite combo is the solemnity+dark depths combo, not because it is good, but because it's such a dumb interaction and evidence dark depth might have been a mistake.

[@riku2193]

Stifle stonks?

[@attackoncardboard]

📈

[@jaysuede2627]

Urborg decks needed help in Legacy anyway.

[@tychoMX]

Damn. I thought "big deal, hexmage same thing". But this is on cast... yikes. Eat my shorts, Force of Will.

[@BMBAnauta]

That is cute...but I normaly do not want to do depths in sorcery speed.

[@barryberg2944]

Why not just a normal forest instead of yavimaya

[@attackoncardboard]

If we played a normal Forest, Dark Depths won't be able to produce mana. It has no mana abilities otherwise.

[@daveSoupy]

Dark depths is banned in modern so this only matters in commander where there’s plenty of answers for this

[@attackoncardboard]

"So in Legacy"

[@ashemabahumat4173]

Wait, does Yavimaya make the lands produce 2 mana due to being 2 types?

[@attackoncardboard]

Yavimaya's ability causes each land on the battlefield to have the land type Forest. Any land that's a Forest has the ability "Tap: Add Green."

[@ashemabahumat4173]

@@attackoncardboard that didn't actually answer my question, but I figured it out on a but later

[@attackoncardboard]

@@ashemabahumat4173 It literally did answer your question though? I replied with exactly what Yavimaya does to other lands.

[@ashemabahumat4173]

@@attackoncardboard I was asking about the specific interaction tho, lol. Thought it allowed for something else to double dip on mana off of technicality, but that wasn't the case

[@attackoncardboard]

My mistake. I didnt understand your question. Any land that is granted a basic land type (in addition to its others) just simply gains the ability "Tap: Add [relevant colour]"

[@legitanator]

Yeah If you think this is bad have fun playing against blue green MH3 precon and having dark depths pop like every other game.

[@MrHuggykins]

How can you do this if Dark Depths doesn't tap for mana?? Yav + Ignoble + Dark Depths only gives you 2 mana. Am i missing something?

[@attackoncardboard]

What does Yavimaya do? Why did we play that instead of just a Forest? 😉

[@MrHuggykins]

@@attackoncardboard I definitely missed something. Sneaky! My bad. This black card seems bonkers.

[@attackoncardboard]

For those playing at home, Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth turns every land into a Forest, giving them the ability "Tap: Add G" 😃

[@danielemirabella9342]

people have to learn to put inside the decks spot removal.

[@attackoncardboard]

Removal doesn't help when you don't have any lands.

[@Rascus75]

They really want people sideboarding Tale's End, huh?

[@attackoncardboard]

Or main decking Stifle 😂

[@dimitriosdoulgeris4659]

Casting a spell that costs three mana with only two? Did I miss something? Land + Dork + Dark Depths makes two mana on turn two.

[@attackoncardboard]

Cradle makes everything a Forest. Giving Dark Depths 'Tap:Add G'.

[@power998]

Um, I agree that the ulamogs are better cards, but if you chose aeons torn for your example it literally results in a turn two kills because of the extra turn aeons torn provides, kinda feel like that would be the pick no?

[@attackoncardboard]

How much mana does Aeons Torn cost?

[@Captain69Spaulding]

Do you even play legacy? Its a nice video but thats commander stuff :)

[@AliceIzuragi6291]

FUCK. why isnt this in arena. id kill for that card

[@oelboy]

I wouldn't call this broken. The loss of consistency when watering down a streamlined DD deck with Cultist and random Eldrazi is way too high.

[@tastysnacks3648]

But..... Dark depths doesnt give mana. how do we get the 3rd Mana?

[@attackoncardboard]

Cradle makes all lands Forests. Lands with the basic subtype gain the ability "tap: add {corresponding mana}" So thanks to Cradle, DD can tap for G

[@tastysnacks3648]

@@attackoncardboard Ii rewatched this many times, and didnt even clue in the first lnd was Yavimaya, My bad haha

[@funa2865]

why ulamog not old emrakul?

[@attackoncardboard]

Because Ulamog costs 10, and Cultist reduces your next spell by 10

[@cuddlequeen3225]

Jeesus

[@attackoncardboard]

He cannot save you if this gets dropped on you 😂

[@cuddlequeen3225]

@@attackoncardboard lawl I'll be the one dropping after learning about this

[@gnezlukc]

I mean modern horizons was designed for modern and depths is banned in modern so I think they did fine. The real issue is will they let the combo survive in legacy.

[@iratebeaver29]

If this isnt commander, why not just end the game, do akroma's memorial instead, so your stuff gets haste and dome them with lage.

[@cmattss4]

A combo that requires you to have 5 pieces in hand turn 1? This doesn't seem consistent enough to be threatenubg at all. Most people trying to play this deck are going to end up with 2 cultists in hand and no Dark Depths, or 3 huge eldrazi in hand and no way to play them.

[@jasmint6703]

Swords to plowshares wins and requires no other cards

[@attackoncardboard]

"Dies to removal" 😏

[@crawdaddy2004]

@@attackoncardboard No, this isn’t JUST a “dies to removal” argument. This is a “my opponent spent all of their resources on a sorcery speed combo that gives me a turn to find one of the most heavily played cards in the game” argument. The power of Stage/Depths and Hexmage/Depths is that they can be done at instant speed. Moreover, both Depths and Stage can be tutored for with Crop Rotation. Heck, just packing an Aether Spellbomb as an Urza’s Saga target takes care of a sorcery speed Marit Lage token. So combine that with StP - okay, you used 3 cards and three mana to do your thing, and I used 4 cards and two mana to undo it. If you have Portable Hole to exile Marit Lage, then you can just sacrifice that to pay Ulamog’s Ward cost. Now we both used three cards, but I only used two mana.

[@jarekwildheart]

Definitely not broken. This is a 3 card combo that requires 2 of the 3 pieces to be dark depths (a land that taps for 0 mana) and this guy who sucks without depths, and the third card being something 8 cmc+ you couldn't cast without the combo. It's way easier to just run Cloudpost...

[@PraskaBruce]

Is it just me or is it ridiculous how everybody seems to think that this card is absolutely busted with dark depths even though in formats like legacy there are cards such as I don't know stifle

[@attackoncardboard]

"Dies to removal" has always been a very good argument for powerful creatures... 😏

[@PraskaBruce]

@@attackoncardboard that's not what I mean. With the trigger on the stack you cast stifle. Then the creature resolves and nothing to worry about funny enough stiflenought decks have a frightening advantage over the legacy meta why there isn't more of those styles of decks is truly beyond me.

[@toddpacker1015]

@@PraskaBruceit’s 40 power on the board with 2 triggered abilities one stifle will do nothing

[@PraskaBruce]

@@toddpacker1015 you can't be soo dumb THAT'S IF THE ability resolves stifle would stop the ability

[@samanderson6488]

​@toddpacker1015 you stifle the cast trigger to remove counters. Now they have a 3 drop a land with 10 counters still and no way to cast their ulamog.

[@user-co6ww2cm9k]

I am not good enough at slight of hand to pull exactly the seven cards I want on every first turn. I always end up mixing all the cards around completely randomly when I shuffle, but these youtube guys always seem to have exactly what they want on turn one

[@attackoncardboard]

Monkeys and Typewriters. It's a game of variance, but it certainly looks like cheating if I get to pick which games I put into the video.

[@DekoMice]

Defabricate

[@attackoncardboard]

"Dies to removal"

[@codyjarvis4557]

BANNED!

[@noahfriedrich4686]

Dark Depths is already banned

[@samanderson6488]

​@@noahfriedrich4686this video is about legacy where it isn't banned.

[@bluntlord1242]

Awsome combo but why Mutated Cultist is not legal in Modern? New card form new Modern set is not Modern legal so stiupid. Iff they decide to make Commander decks in Modern set they shuld at least make cards from this decks Modern legal.

[@attackoncardboard]

Dark Depths isn't Modern legal either, hence why I say "in Legacy". Do you also hold that sentiment for the Commander decks that release with the standard sets?

[@doomdozer26]

Probably will get banned in Legacy...

[@Lunamowon]

Wow edh players are discovering a worse version of hexmage which isn't evdn playable in legacy anymore!!! How insane.. istg

[@sleepybones5726]

dark depths doesn't tap for mana dawg

[@attackoncardboard]

That's why we play Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth broseph

[@sleepybones5726]

@@attackoncardboard oh shit im so bad

[@Przivel]

Why….

[@attackoncardboard]

Because sometimes you just need to pull off a power move 😎

[@Przivel]

@@attackoncardboard guess I gotta order my foil token! 😂

[@tako4316]

And copy landx for the blue players

[@hastur2905]

isn't that too weak for legacy?

[@attackoncardboard]

😂 T2 is fine. This isn't vintage

[@androkguz]

No. It's good for legacy. Perfect hands will keep winning games in legacy but the better decks are the ones that are most consistent or can survive disruption or can deny other combos. This one is ... Consistent enough by t3, probably.

[@josephstrouth519]

It's not really good in legacy. It'll be fine. Making a 20/20 at sorcery speed and then passing the turn withou5 crop rotation for protection is worse than what people are already doing with dark depths.

[@androkguz]

@@josephstrouth519 a 20/20 indestructible and a 10+/10+ with ward And you can still protect the token with Not of This World It's very strong for legacy. The problem for me is that it's the pipe dream

[@noahfriedrich4686]

It's not better that the already existing dark Depths decks. Plus dumping the 10 mana into a Ulamog is a waste, something like lightning greaves or akromas memorial for protection and haste is a way better option so you don't have to pass the turn, just win instead

[@0011peace]

Dark Depths should have been banned al lonf timie e ago its stupid card to begin with