Darkvoice 336SE Tube Amp Review - Great sound or just a gimmick?

[@jblesser]

Love your delivery - smart, balanced, nuanced and informative.

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks so much!

[@spektrograf]

Excellent and thorough review. Thank you, Lachlan! That's a sizeable bit of work to put something like this together. 👍🙏

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks spektrograf! Glad you liked it

[@jackjack3874]

I really enjoy your videos mate and learn from them... please make a dedicated video where you explain power impedance, power output, miliwatts vs voltage, noise, sensitivity, gain... all the metrics that one finds in the specs of headphones, amps etc... I know this video has covered a few of these and some others are in other videos, but would be nice to have it all in one.. I would definitely appreciate introduction videos for newbies like connections, cables, how to turn headphones or earphones to balanced etc.

[@PassionforSound]

Great idea, Jack. I'll see where I can fit it into the schedule.

[@beepover]

Got my darkvoice 10 years ago from Massdrop now called drop. Tube rolled. No issues all these years later. Survived a couple of moves. Great clean sound, pairs well with HD650. Tons of power. Fantastic Tube amp. My Darkvoice is very well built. Maybe build quality is not the same nowadays. You pointed out the gain issue and never thought it was an issue but it is and issue. Also there is hum or noise when I tried a few of my chfi iem's. Also the dark voice should not be your main Dac, there are plenty of Solid State dacs that are better. The dark voice will give you a tuby sound. You are right on about your review of the dark voice.

[@PassionforSound]

Great to hear! The quality is fine - there are just a few signs of it being a cheaper, Chinese product, but that's ok. It would suit the HD650 beautifully for a lovely rich sound. Enjoy!

[@vicentevargas6755]

@@PassionforSound same here, I have mine from 5 years ago, I also tubed rolled, paired with my HD 6XX, I love the combo. My DAC is a schiit Bifrost by the way.

[@PassionforSound]

Glad you're enjoying it!

[@rbsorg]

What tubes would you advise for a holographic sound or other you would advise.

[@beepover]

@@rbsorg Could not really tell you You would really need to tube roll and spend some $. You have to consider Tube Rolling is a hobby! I will say I have the stock back tube but after 3rd or 4th tube settled on a Syvania Tube for the front. It is clean sound an airy.

[@qorkado5007]

Bottlehead crack user here. Highly recommend to DIYers.

[@soulshinobi]

I know it sounds pedantic, but I can't get over the name. 🙄

[@PassionforSound]

It is worth trying 😉

[@kermift7]

Just finished building mine and wow it sounds so good! Don't be afraid of the DYI, it's not hard and soldering is fun to learn! Have you added the speedball?

[@krmatiu]

I feels like some crack 🤔

[@RyougiVector]

Sounds like a summer project

[@Rickzolla]

Nice review. I bought the DV several years ago for use with my high impedance Beyerdynamic cans. I enjoy it in that context. I have other amps for other cans. One size does not fit all.

[@PassionforSound]

So true, Richard! Glad you're enjoying it!

[@soulshinobi]

Wow, that "scuba blue" hoodie in the into is incredible looking, just bought it from your store! Thanks for all the great reviews and commentary!

[@PassionforSound]

Awesome! Enjoy the hoodie. I love mine

[@joeb3619]

Go in looking for an OTL tube amp...gets recommended a solid state Asgard 3 instead. What's the point of that?? It's like going to look for an electric car and getting recommended a diesel instead.

[@PassionforSound]

From my perspective, I don't want to go recommending an OTL amp just for the sake of it. It would be like going to buy an electric car and being sold one with 50km range ;)

[@tysontyson1244]

I was ready to explain how wrong he was about the Darkvoice. For example, I was going to correct him about the gain, but then he said correctly that with different tubes you can achieve variety of gain. This entire video was spot on. The stock tubes are not bad. They are pretty wet sounding, which I like too. He is right in spending just a little more one can get some detail and control on the cheap. But, the stock tubes are decent and fun. There is not a better video on the Darkvoice 336SE period. This is it. Very nice video on a very good value tube amp!!!

[@PassionforSound]

Thank you Hottyson!

[@chefsteve8381]

Some of your best work yet great explanation of tube amps, i ordered the xduoo 602 (twin tubes ) much higher output than 601 for $10 more also has the same tubes as the little dot MK2 that i own and have tube rolled with, 5 different types so the expense and time waiting for tubes to turn up from various parts of eastern Europe is thankfully done, i have noticed over the years that good tubes especially NOS tubes are getting harder and harder to get, and prices skyrocketing must be because tubes are getting more and more popular my experience with different tubes over the years is they can make or brake a tube amp but also be fun, more so than cables (joke), one thing i think you could of touched on is tube burn in . thanks

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Steve, good point about the burn-in. I'm going to spend more time on another upcoming review with some tube rolling, tube buying advice, etc. so I'll pick up on burn-in there. Sounds like you made a great choice of amp with the xDuoo. I quite like the baby one so far even though I'm only using the stock tube

[@N-TEC]

I have a Topping EX5 Dac/Amp combo, how would I go about connecting this to the Darkvoice? Would I connect the headphones to the DAC/AMP or to the Darkvoice?

[@PassionforSound]

You'd take RCA interconnects from the back of the EX5 to the Darkvoice and then connect your headphones to the Darkvoice.

[@StraightEdgeAlexxx31]

i can confirm that taking the edge off of the hd800 with tubes is the best way to go about it... i have the schiit jotunheim and the darkvoice and the darkvoice sounds significantly better on the hd800

[@PassionforSound]

Are you referring to the original Jotunheim? I'd imagine the Darkvoice is significantly smoother on the HD800s than that! 🙂🙂

[@mikeg2491]

Want to chime in my Grado GS3000x is just amazing on the Darkvoice using a Cayin N8ii as a DAC, all that nasty sibilance is taken away and just a smooth liquid 3D sound.

[@PassionforSound]

That makes a lot of sense as a great pairing!

[@IHearEverythingDude]

Stock tubes need to be replaced especially the small one. After I changed it the sound was more open a bit "lighter" not muddy and squashed. For the price it's interesting amplifier for high impedance cans. And I just love its look.

[@ErowidofvaultS]

well i consider my 70 Ohm LDC-2 Classics to be low impedence and they sound great on this amp

[@IHearEverythingDude]

@@ErowidofvaultS if you say so. But I don't see lcds2 sounding good with this pairing on high dynamic range tracks. Anyway good for you. Output impedance of darkvoice is in range from 78ohms to 160ohms ! Damping factor using low impedance headphones is just.... you will have no control over low frequencies.

[@PassionforSound]

I figured that the stock tubes must be pretty average so it makes good sense that there are clear improvements available with some different tubes. It's hard to say definitively that a headphone will sound worse with high output impedance (unless it's resulting in high distortion) because sometimes the lower damping (and frequency changes in dynamic drivers) can be enjoyable.

[@IHearEverythingDude]

@@PassionforSound Yes that's why I added when you like muddy sound then it's okay, especially in the bass some people like that kind of sound bot let's face it don't call it high fidelity :)

[@PassionforSound]

I'm playing with the Elekit TU-8200R at the moment and will be discussing that issue at length there too...

[@jasonkong1000]

Great review! My tube-rolled DV pairs very well with all of my Senn (HD580, HD600, HD6xx, and HD800s). With some good replacement tubes, the presentation of the DV becomes very three-dimensional. You can get different tuning and soundstage as well. What tube rolling cannot fix is the output volume. I always listen to my DV with the volume knob at 7-8 o'clock. Another issue is the humming on the left channel when using new replacement pre-amp tubes. Two solutions: mods or single-tube burn-in (take out the power tube and turn on the amp with only the pre-amp tube). I didn't do the mod because of the warranty. The humming on most NOS tubes I have (Sylvania, CNS-Hytron, RCA) usually goes away after 24 hours of burn-in. The new production Tung-sol takes about 5 days of burn-in to completely eliminate the humming. For people in the US, the best way to purchase this amp is to wait for the Drop, buy the amp on Apos Audio, and request a price match. That way, you can get this amp for exactly $200 (free shipping, no sales tax). Apos Audio has a pretty good warranty and returns policy and their shipping is really fast. It took them 3 days to ship my order from Hong Kong to Colorado, US. For $200, this would be a really low-risk purchase since you can easily sell this amp on eBay for $200+ if you don't like it and passed the return period. In my opinion, this amp is an amazing addition for someone who already owns and loves some high-impedance dynamic driver headphones. It's definitely not for everyone.

[@PassionforSound]

Great information! Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[@heavynova]

How do these or other tube amps synergize with r2r dacs. You can get an r2r dac to improve sound stage and smoothness, or a tube amp to improve soundstage, but on a vali2+ and a bifrost 2 im just getting bass boost (mullard tube) and alot of distortion

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Cliff, what headphones are you running with the Vali 2+? As for synergy, there's no reason R2R and tubes can't work great together and provide even better soundstaging, but there's probably a point at which the benefits hit a max limit.

[@heavynova]

@@PassionforSound yes thats the conclusion I came to after tube rolling. Theres only so much you can do to mess with things. Right now the setup is (your going to laugh) bifrost 2 > schitt vali nos tubes > schitt loki > ifi ican with the magic button > focal clear or modhouse argon t60rp. I'm clearly going too far with this but it is entertaining. Was just curious if a different tube preamp/amp would have been better.

[@PassionforSound]

Haha, what a mixture of devices! If you're having fun it means your doing it right. Enjoy!

[@heavynova]

@@PassionforSound Its a bit late to the conversation, but I figured out the issue was the whole single ended output on the Schitt devices. The balanced is much better even if one doesn't believe in the whole balanced > SE argument, balanced Schitt devices are meant meant to be run in balanced. Going Balanced Bifrost 2 > Ifi ICAN balanced > Vali 2+ is ALOT clearer than going SE Bifrost 2 > IFI ICAN SE > Vali 2+. Its still single ended to head phones for both. For some reason it took me a month to figure that one out. Could have avoided it by having a Balanced tube. I'm thinking iCAN pro, just waiting to see if they update that like the Zen DAC

[@PassionforSound]

Glad you solved it! I've had no issues with the SE output from the Bifrost 2 so perhaps it's a product combo thing where it works fine with some gear and not with others

[@aceofspades6667]

Thanks for the great review!

[@PassionforSound]

My pleasure!

[@BillyKueekSG]

How does the 336 compared with the XDupp TA-26?

[@PassionforSound]

To me, the TA-26 was superior in stock form. Perhaps some tube rolling with the 336 could make it equal or better, but I much prefer the look, finish and sound of the TA-26.

[@BillyKueekSG]

@@PassionforSound as just you replied, I saw the new model TA-26S. Look wise, very slight difference, different tint of grey and comes with both 6.35mm and 4.4mm balance (in place of the switch) headphone ports but the power switch is now at the back.

[@PassionforSound]

TA-26S just arrived for review!

[@BillyKueekSG]

@@PassionforSound telepathy!!! I will be looking forward to your review. I am happy with the TA-26, have a few tubes to roll and it’s delightful. I actually chose the TA-26 because I felt the DK336 to be unpredictable. With everything being the same, it sounds different at times whereas with the TA-26, I know what I will get when I use a certain tube and headphone combination.

[@PassionforSound]

I'm not expecting a huge sonic change with the TA-26S, but we'll see...

[@brandonburr4900]

Have no experience with this otl amp with with my high impedance sennheiser but I do have a prototype otl amo with the same tube compliment and can confirm it's fun to tube roll . Some tubes can get pricey but a pair I love is a new old stock rca 6AS7G and a Sylvania 6SN7GTB with a silver dome top. A great sounding pair and opens up the sound and much more clear. Much bigger sounding and better bass as well. Glad to see the bottlehead crack. A much mentioned nice combo with a sennheiser hd600 and 650. I believe when bottlehead first designed the crack these are the specific headphones used to voice it. Hope your elekit 8200 R is coming along nicely?

[@PassionforSound]

I believe you're right about the Crack, Brandon. The 8200R is all built and I'm currently testing it with some different tubes, solving a major issue with it (for headphone users) and looking at some simple upgrades to discuss in the video 🙂

[@xylophoneiwnl4191]

Could you do a review for the schiit valhalla 2 and maybe do a comparison?

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Alex, I'd love to, but it all depends on what great I can get on loan. I can't afford to buy everything ☹️

[@vicentevargas6755]

I would love to hear your thoughts on this matter as well.

[@PassionforSound]

I'll see what I can do, but it's not always up to me 🙂

[@joeb3619]

I've compared the Valhalla with Darkvoice. Short answer is Valhalla is the cleanest sounding OTL amp out there. If you're looking for that tubey colored sound you won't find it on the Valhalla. In fact I would say a ton of people blind tested would not be able to tell Valhalla from a solid state like the Asgard.

[@vicentevargas6755]

@@joeb3619 Thanks for the time you took to answer, warm regards. Take care.

[@BigJalapeno]

Any of you have tried the Focal Clear with this tube amp? How is it?

[@PassionforSound]

I may have tried it, I think. What you'll find is that the high output impedance will increase the bass from the Clears and also give them a slightly fuller, slower sound overall. I quite like the Clears with high output impedance amps so it's definitely not a bad option if you're happy with the Clears sounding different than intended.

[@BigJalapeno]

@@PassionforSound thank you, I will give these a try!

[@PassionforSound]

Hope you love the combo!

[@marclacasse1]

Great review. Comparison with the Schiit Vali 2 would be interesting.

[@AA0011.]

Vali 2+

[@marclacasse1]

@@AA0011. Yeah I read the upgrade was significant.

[@AA0011.]

@@marclacasse1 yes :)

[@PassionforSound]

I'd love to, but I need to share the love around some other brands too. Hopefully i can get Schiity again soon though

[@marclacasse1]

@@PassionforSound Love your reviews. Cheers.

[@ciaoamore2634]

i change on 336SE all caps with good ones, Philips, MUNDORF, Nichicon,& all resistors with film 1%,, also change switch on-off with good one, USA tubes.6080WC NOS&6SN7eh GOLD,it runs hd800 with charm and authority!! best amp for hd800!!!!

[@PassionforSound]

Wow. That's a big investment of time and effort. Glad you're enjoying the results

[@blitzkreig000]

Really appreciate the explanation on high output impedance and OTL amps. Prob learned more in that 10min section than spending hours trying to read convoluted posts on forums 👏🏼 Edit: also on the bit talking about power/gain balance and voltage vs current amps. Lots to take in!

[@PassionforSound]

Yay! Glad it was helpful!

[@andreaxel3022]

How about comparing it with the littledot mkii

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Andre, if I owned one I would gladly compare, but I can only work with what I own or what's on loan.

[@andreaxel3022]

@@PassionforSound Alright thanks for clarifying! 👍

[@daviewavie112]

Dark voice is THE gateway into the tube world

[@PassionforSound]

In some ways, yes, but I found the Bottlehead Crack created far more of an emotional connection to the amp, the tubes and the overall experience of tube audio. It does depend on someone's comfort with a soldering iron though

[@ivodoor]

is this amp good enough for Focal Clear? or which amp would you recommend for it?...around 180-300 usd

[@PassionforSound]

This won't be an ideal match for the Clears because it has a high output impedance and the Clears are relatively low impedance. I'd recommend the Schiit Asgard 3, Geshelli Labs Archel 2.5 or E2 (SE or balanced options with the same basic circuit), or SMSL SH-8S would work

[@petervanderham4725]

Got one on the way from Drop, for my VC.. So eager to find out what you think!

[@PassionforSound]

Should work nicely with the VC, Peter. I'd recommend grabbing some other, better tubes though to get more out of it

[@petervanderham4725]

@@PassionforSound thanks! Great video on it from your side, a nice watch. I plan to upgrade those. But will wait to hear how the stock tubes sound

[@PassionforSound]

Definitely a good idea to understand the stock sound first so you can appreciate the upgrade of new tubes

[@engolivecomau]

Although not particularly interested in this specific amp, I came in knowing I'd learn something about audio in general by clicking your videos and you do exactly that. Thanks for the insights/education.

[@PassionforSound]

That's so cool to hear. Thanks for letting me know and glad I can share some helpful information

[@JL3001]

Curious to hear your thoughts on the Lyr 3. I like the exacting, precise sound of solid states, but feel like a hybrid with a tube could take out the harshness and be nice for my Verite Closed, and still work well with my old Hifiman HE-500.

[@PassionforSound]

That's definitely the benefit of hybrids. I've been pretty heavy on the Schiit gear lately so I don't want to ask them for any other stuff right now, but will aim to review more (including the Lyr) in the future

[@snowrang3r657]

Great review, dig the shirt!

[@PassionforSound]

Another one from Threadheads

[@Xcessive13]

is the output on the back the same as the front or is it just a pass through

[@PassionforSound]

It's volume controlled for pre-amp use

[@johnhayes8476]

Great information! Thanks!!!

[@annelouisemendoza394]

Those tubes look great. That cookie monster suits the Darkvoice

[@PassionforSound]

Haha

[@gramblor1]

I've been looking forward to this review for a little while now. I bought the Dark Voice from Drop last year, but I can't use it because unless I plug it into an outlet without anything else plugged into it, it produces a hum that is unacceptable. Others have complained about this on forums. Do you know what's going on and how to fix it? I don't think it's the tubes, but I haven't tried rolling any others. like I said, there's no hum if it's plugged into its own outlet. I think I tried powering it on with only one tube at a time and it happened with both tubes that way, though it didn't happen with no tubes inserted. This is the second tube amp I've been burned by. The other was the hybrid tube amp called Bravo Audio Ocean, also bought from Drop. That one had channel leakage. Either the left or right channel leaked distortion into the other. I tested it with other tubes than stock, and it was clearly the amp. Now I'm thinking about getting the Schiit Lyr 3.

[@PassionforSound]

Sorry to hear that, I think I read something about how the power supply was wired in the DV, but I don't know for sure. I just think with tube amps, if you know you want to go that way, you either need to spend a bit more (Schiit, etc.) or go the DIY route and build a Crack.

[@null140]

A shame you had problems with both of these. I went from the Ocean to the Darkvoice myself, and have enjoyed both of them. My Ocean with a Tung-Sol tube has lasted me a very long time, probably 6+ years at this rate, and now does secondary desk duty for my retro gaming setup.

[@gramblor1]

@@null140 I want to look into having them repaired.

[@jamesj5469]

20:36 I like that part. Until I asked you I didn't think you could use a planar. Also if you change the tube it opens up more and the bass is not as muddy. Depends on the tube

[@gramblor1]

In my experience with this amp my he4xx distorted terribly, as did my Tin P1.

[@jamesj5469]

@@gramblor1 I haven't try a planar and I think iems just won't work with it. Idk I'd like to try an Asgard need to upgrade my fav first

[@gramblor1]

@@jamesj5469 The P1 is so hard to drive that it works with powerful amplifiers. For some reason the Dark Voice caused a lot of distortion with it. The P1 also doesn't work well with Dragonfly Red.

[@jamesj5469]

@@gramblor1 I never used an iem with it. I don't know maybe change the tubes see what that does

[@PassionforSound]

I didn't try HE4XX but Sundara sounded passable to me. IEMs are a very different story because, other than the P1 or P2 perhaps, most will need you to pull way back on the input volume (i.e. reducing DAC output) and then pump the output from the amp. That, combined with the very low impedance of IEMs just makes it a bad proposition for almost any earphones I can think of. Definitely worth trying different tubes though because it will change the sound significantly.

[@deluxesofa]

Can you review the harmonic dyne zues ? i really like your channel and would like to see your opinion on them

[@PassionforSound]

Thank you! I have been trying to arrange that with Linsoul for some time now, but no luck yet - hopefully soon.

[@BustRadioMyths]

I would suggest that you find the Crack amp sounds better than this Darkvoice is because of better quality tubes because the designs are pretty much the same. I brought one of these Darkvoice amps on sale because I love the sound of tube amps and I dig the 1940's look of the Darkvoice. It came with Chinese tubes as expected and the power tube, the 6AS7, only lasted a couple of hours. Not surprising for some China made vacuum tubes. There is also some filament hum. So since I build tube amps I knew I could fix that, which I did for less than $2 in parts, but you gotta know what your doing. So unless you are handy with a soldering iron and can follow directions I would not suggest the Darkvoice. As for the sound of my now modded Darkvoice its wonderful and I have low impedance Grado headphones. Keep in mind that small tube will always equal input, or more correctly preamp tube and big tube equals power tube. Enjoyed your comprehensive review.

[@PassionforSound]

Glad you're enjoying the modified Darkvoice. I do think the stock tubes make a significant difference too as you say.

[@CraciunAlexandruGh]

Awesome explanation of the impedance and gain factors. The amp is a clear no-go. There are many sub 300$ amps that perform great.

[@PassionforSound]

Yeah, good for playing with tubes, but not as a general amp

[@ErowidofvaultS]

a clear no go? find a better sounding tube amp for less than $1000. good luck

[@PassionforSound]

Bottlehead Crack, Bottlehead S.E.X.

[@joeb3619]

@@PassionforSound Huge difference in a kit vs. an amp you can plug and go. The assembly service for Bottlehead's are like $200-400 alone. Will agree if you don't mind building it those are some of the best you can get for under $1000

[@PassionforSound]

Fair point. I'm referring to building it yourself, but obviously that's not for everyone

[@kortam6065]

I have the cayin ha300, woo audio wa22 and darkvoice paired with hd800s.. with all my expensive amp i still getting back to my darkvoice lol.. with right tubes Dv is hard to beat

[@PassionforSound]

A nice OTL with some good tubes can be great 🙂

[@tungle3946]

Could you tell which tube is best for DV?

[@kortam6065]

@@tungle3946 theres not best tube it depends on your pairing headphones and your taste so its an expensive journey tbh

[@PassionforSound]

Yes, I agree. One tube combination I would recommend considering is the new production Tung Sol 6AS7G in the rear socket and the Apps Ray 6SN7 Select in the front socket. That is a wonderful combination in my xDuoo TA-26

[@mikegoddard7354]

So you waited 8 months to receive this unit XD I just bought the TA-10R from drop for a pretty good price, it was like 70 dollars off the first time they dropped it. Honestly really like it, compared to the schitt $99 tube amp which I am unsure if it is hybrid or purely tube, honestly had no difference between the rest of the schitt amps. This one is killer, nice akm chip and overall very pleasant and different sound vs all my amps. This is even with the chinese tube that it came with, and hasn't even been burned in yet. I plan to purchase a decent tube, would of got the TA-20, but honestly dont doubt that one is great. Not sure if you ever looked into the TA line. Also with many reviews I watched with the TA-10 gets really hot, this one is luke warm even after hours of use which should increase longevity

[@PassionforSound]

It's like that with Drop sometimes, isn't it!? Glad you're enjoying the TA-10R. I am looking forward to trying more of that range - they look great. Thanks for sharing your impressions of it!

[@MititeluRadu]

I was curious about tubes so I went for a WA-6SE, and it did not went well. The sound was not bad but it was always short of the mark. Is like one of those smoothing filters on Chinese phones. Rebel amp had the same or very close overall sound but with that 10% that was lacking with tubes. After fully upgraded my audio chain, maybe I will try upgrading tubes, and see if 2000 euro tubes can sound like a 500$ solid state, but so far 500$ solid state sounds better then 1200 Euro tube amp.

[@PassionforSound]

HI Mititelu, tubes will always bring a different character to the sound, but there is also such a vast difference from one tube amp to the next, partly due to the topologies available (OTL, SET, etc.) and partly due to the different tube varieties. Generally speaking, a tube amp with output transformers will sound closer to solid state while still giving the character of tubes (sweeter mids, etc.) while OTL amps will often be richer and smoother sounding. None of this is set in stone though...

[@soulfulfool]

so what is your amp and headphones that disappoint you so much ? :) I'm very curious

[@lupoal4113]

well done! ... now you should try a even cheaper Littele Dot MK2 equipped with C3g as preamp and a GE 6SN7 NOS made in Canada, you need socket adapers for both... and couple that with Sennheiser HD650 or 6XX, set the gain on 5 (in LD you can set 4 different level of gain) ... don't use stock tube, are not so nice.. with different tubes, like those mentioned above, you will have fantastic sound (not fat not slow not small) espcially with classic music and jazz

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks lupoal. I probably won't go so far down that path into using socket adapters, etc. but of I get the chance to try a Little Dot, I'll gladly review it

[@lupoal4113]

@@PassionforSound fine :) just don't use the stock power cord... it's horrible... instead of defualt tubes look for 6N6P Foton and Brimar 6BE6... both at few bucks from ebay and without any adapter. As are both NOS a burn in of about 50 hours is a must.

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks for the tips! 🙂

[@soulfulfool]

@@lupoal4113 You are so passionate about that cheap amp and tube options that I would love to see you listen to real quality amp with double set of power/driver tubes 👍👍. I liked my Little dot mk3 but finally it was time to upgrade

[@lupoal4113]

@@soulfulfool who told you i don't have any other amps? I use the LD only or jazz, with 6XX, and my LD is quite different from the factory production... for classic music I use something completely different... anyway, enjoy your upgrade

[@audioaficionado9494]

Great review as always. I might get a tube amp in the future, but a more elegantly designed unit. The Darkvoice is too large and bulky for the wattage and SQ. I've always liked Bottlehead's products.

[@PassionforSound]

I definitely prefer the Bottlehead options to the DV. The DV is fine, but a touch basic and clunky looking for my tastes. Depending on where your budget and DIY skill levels lie, I might have another good option coming soon...

[@audioaficionado9494]

@@PassionforSoundCool 😎. Looking forward to that one.

[@TriAmpMyFi]

Schiit SYS volume control $49. 🔈🔉🔊

[@ErowidofvaultS]

this has to be the first video ive disagreed with, this amp works great on lower impedence headphones, planars included. LDC-2 Classics sound excellent

[@zzezzobike]

Totally agree love DarkVoice to the point I owe two ✌

[@PassionforSound]

Sorry guys, that's going to happen sometimes in this hobby. I'm glad you're both enjoying it

[@rbsorg]

What tubes would you advise swapping out from stock with your dark voice.

[@Rsalmond83]

@@rbsorg Westinghouse 6SN7GTB with the “o” top getter and RCA JAN 6AS7G

[@vangledosh]

My hifiman ananda's (planar 25 Ohms) still sounded great through these tubes, but MUCH thinner compared to my HD650 (300Ohms). If it weren't for having 650 nearby I wouldn't have noticed it sounding that bad in comparison, but when switching back and forth it was VERY obvious that my ananda's were not a good match for this particular tube amp. This was further proven to be true when directly comparing ananda's on a solid state and back to the tube again

[@paullazarro4295]

Thanks!

[@stevenjackson8226]

I just knew the Bottlehead Crack had to come in here, knowing that you'd traversed through the Bottlehead line landing finally at the final landing point with the Mainline. As I was first getting into headphones, the DV 336SE looked pretty attractive. Reading user and reviewer comments, the amplifier comes with some caveats. Not so much with the Crack. The Bottlehead crew is very keen to keep people reminded that the Crack is really, strictly for use with higher impedance headphones, like 120-150 ohms. I haven't seen such instruction with the DV 336SE. I don't know exactly what the circuit topology looks like with the DV. As an OTL SE amplifier, is it effectively suitable for use with all headphones of all impedances? I do like the DV's use of the 6SN7 input tube. I'm totally okay with the 12AU7 input tube used by the Crack. I used the 12AU7 for a LONG time in a Conrad-Johnson PV-12A preamp, and I have a LOT of 12AU7 family tubes. I bought a second Crack for hot-rodding (well, not too hot-rodded; just the typical stuff folks do) and the plan is to wire it to use a 6CG7 - the noval 6SN7 equivalent - or a full-on 6SN7 with an adapter, to see how that might sound/work compared with the 12AU7.

[@PassionforSound]

Sounds like you're really delving into the modding of the Crack - nice! I think both the Crack and 336SE can do ok with planars, but only if you're willing to risk that the frequency response might be altered a bit by the lower damping factor and also that these amps won't deliver the current for hard-to-drive planars. Easier ones works ok though.

[@land_walker]

The Schiit Valhalla 2 is another great OTL amp for $350 USD.

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks for the tip! I haven't tried the Valhalla yet

[@krisrudecki9477]

“Its a heavy beast”, HA6a enters the chat 😂

[@PassionforSound]

Lol 😁

[@ClaraXu2014]

Toss the original tubes that come with the amp, try a WE 421A, then you'll hear music...

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks for the tip!

[@larryeckerdt9750]

Surprised you didn’t consider the Schiit Valhalla 2 as a direct competitor. I am leaning toward this after spending the last 6 months following the Darkvoice on Head-fi. The level of mods deemed necessary there is fine for the tinkerer, but I don’t have those skills.

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Larry, it's not that I didn't consider it, just that I don't have one here to compare.

[@alan2698]

Valhalla is not very "tubey" sounding from what I have gathered. I love Schiit but apparently they lean more towards neutral. Especially for a tube amp. Darkvoice and Bottlehead Crack is what I keep getting recommended for sub $1000 OTL tube amp.

[@PassionforSound]

The Crack is the best option I've tried for the money (and tubes)

[@From_the_mil]

Darkvoice is great man

[@chefsteve8381]

Love the Aussie slang "it weighs a ton = 5kg ha ha

[@krmatiu]

Dude, he’s little 🤷‍♂️

[@krmatiu]

😊

[@PassionforSound]

😂

[@Sarki982]

Has anyone tried the Darkvoice with the Audeze LCD-2 (70ohms)? I've been eyeing a pre-owned darkvoice being sold in my area but I'm worried about the pairing. Currently using the magnius, so I'm looking for something different to experiment with. This review makes me want try either the Darkvoice or Xduoo a try as my first tube amp, so thanks!

[@IHearEverythingDude]

Sometime ago I tried Darkvoice with Hifiman HE-560 which are 50ohm. And it was not a good pairing. Sound got distorted really easy and just overall sq was not that good. Darkvoice because of very high output impedance is only good with high impedance cans like sennheiser hd6- - series and zmf series

[@PassionforSound]

I'd agree with alexwow that this isn't the best amp for your LCDs. Not sure if recommend the xDuoo either because it's not particularly characterful based on my early listening so if you're after a 'tube sound' it might not do it for you. But, I haven't properly listened to it yet so I might change that opinion. What are you using with the LCDs now, Steve?

[@ErowidofvaultS]

the LCD-2 classics sound GREAT on this amp, its actually the main pair i use on this amp

[@IHearEverythingDude]

@@ErowidofvaultS I'm guessing you like thick warm bassy sound. Then yes it will be good pairing. But Steve if you are looking for fidelity better pair your lcd with some nice solid state amp or hybrid tube/ss amp. Cheers

[@Sarki982]

@@PassionforSound I have the schiit modius/magnius stack, so I'm looking for something different that would compliment it. Yes I'm after that 'tube sound' but don't know what that means yet because I haven't experienced it! I know I'm probably better off with a hybrid tube, but wanted to see if anyone has tried the pair. As always with audio we have conflicting opinions already in the comments :) Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

[@windbagfusspot6155]

Does he mention which headphones he used for this review? Damn I got sucked in to a sales pitch. A long one....

[@PassionforSound]

I mentioned multiple headphones and didn't really recommend the amp in the end. Not sure how that makes this a sales pitch?

[@windbagfusspot6155]

@@PassionforSound At half an hour I'm not going to watch again but it would help your viewers if you mention the gear used to draw your conclusion on sound quality.

[@PassionforSound]

I use lots of different gear to get a good picture of the sound and list all my preferred headphones in the description so you can see them all too.

[@windbagfusspot6155]

@@PassionforSound All low impedence and or planar hp which don't work well with otl amps generally speaking. I like your review style but it's about as useful as an unboxing video if you don't provide specific relevant details on what you actually used to evaluate sound quality.

[@PassionforSound]

Planars are actually fine with OTL as the fixed impedance means they're unaffected by the output impedance (as explained in this video). The only issue that planars have with OTL amps is the lack of power (current) they can provide to demanding planars. As for discussing the gear, every review I produce is a little different and where I go into detail varies depending on what matters most - in this case it was explaining the challenges of high output impedance and the types of headphones that will/won't work well. Whether I used the HD800S, Meze Empyrean, DT880 250 or ATH-R70X with the 336SE the results were the same (and as described). The only difference would have been if I based my impressions solely on a low impedance dynamic driver headphone and I clearly explained in the video that this isn't a good pairing so it is implied that I wouldn't base my review on such a combination. If I've offended you by not praising an amp you own, I apologise.

[@soulfulfool]

Only trash tubes and cheap OTL amps are lacking in details and mud everything with bass. My tubes provides details, depth and timbre like solid state never could :) highs also are there but sweet just how I like it. Of course it all depend on headphones pairing , not many planars work well with tubes (mostly bass distort at higher SPL). At this exact moment I'm listening to music using my tube amp, crystal clear sound like I'm not even wearing headphones 👍👍

[@PassionforSound]

I think the Darkvoice is shipped with pretty basic tubes and perhaps the design isn't great too. I know, for me, the similar xDuoo TA-26 was a big step up even in stock form. I agree that tubes can be wonderfully transparent, natural and detailed, but it all depends on the tubes and sometimes the headphone pairing too like you say

[@BustRadioMyths]

The design of the 336se and the Crack headphone amp are nearly identical. The Crack apparently ships with better tubes which makes a big difference.

[@soulfulfool]

@@BustRadioMyths not long time ago some dude argue with me that only amp make a diff tube doesnt matter 😆

[@PassionforSound]

That's a bit funny given that the tube kind of IS the amplification part of the amplifier 🤣

[@soulfulfool]

@@PassionforSound yea those people really exist and share their mystical knowledge

[@filovirus1]

"psychoacoustic effect" - I wrote down

[@kenbtheman]

There's a big difference between cheap and inexpensive. You call this cheap. Cheap means junk. Inexpensive means good at the right price.

[@PassionforSound]

To me, there are aspects of the Darkvoice that are cheap. Overall, it's a decent amp, but I do believe it's both inexpensive and cheap. That's not necessarily a bad thing because we often get what we pay for and this is one of those cases IMO

[@xzackly7131]

Valhalla 2 is the best starting point for tubes probably. Complete opposite of thick and warm.

[@PassionforSound]

I'm keen to try one when I can

[@joeb3619]

What's the of getting a tube amp that sounds like a solid state? Just buy a Heresy/Magnius/Asgard and call it a day

[@xzackly7131]

@@joeb3619 I found the valhalla 2 to have other benefits to the presentation that sounded markedly different to the basic SS amp I had on hand in my personal subjective tests that sounded very good.

[@PassionforSound]

I agree with xzackly. To me, a good tube amp will bring a sweetness to the mids and might also create a larger soundstage, but doesn't need to sound thick and warm. Not that thick and warm is necessarily bad, just depends on your purpose.

[@zzezzobike]

Wrong. DarkVoice is the best offer on the market at just 200$ not 300, making music in my head.like nothing else under 400$, it makes music so real.Sorry for you that can't hear this. My tubes on one Tungsol+Rca,classic setup or Rayeton 6sn7 +Rayeton 6880 power, second unit.

[@PassionforSound]

I'm glad you're enjoying it, Roblex. Perhaps if it had captured my interest enough to buy some other tubes I might have heard it differently, but as it is, I'd take the Schiit Asgard 3 or xDuoo over it.

[@vicentevargas6755]

@@PassionforSound I'ts a whole different experience when you change the tubes, the stock tubes are no good, and the DV scales with the tubes you put on it.

[@zzezzobike]

@@PassionforSound Xduoo, which? I am listening to 602 for couple of days now, got it little used for 60€, so what the heck. But it sound almost like my ZEN dac, with more power and sharper treble, which paired with 4xx can be unpleasant on female vocals or uper tones of trumpets, sax etc.And it's a hybrid. So, just curious what xduoo can compare to pure valve output of a DarkVoice?

[@PassionforSound]

I was just referring to the MT-601 that I discussed in the video. It's a very different amp, but on pure sound quality in stock form I prefered it. It will depend on personal taste and headphone pairings though

[@mariodrv]

Le first?

[@frankgeeraerts6243]

400 volt HT on a 6AS7 Class A SE............hahahahaha

[@klars3207]

Chynese company. CCP.

[@gertdk6428]

Why would you compare a tube amp to a solid state? Or even a hybrid? That’s like comparing apples and oranges and coming to the conclusion that the apple pie made from oranges (?) isn’t real apple flavor. Terrible review. 30 minutes I’ll never get back....

[@PassionforSound]

Hi Gert, some people watching this will be considering buying their first ever amp so, for them, they might want to know what the best choice is around the same budget and whether or not they should by tube or solid state. There's no need to be rude about it

[@gertdk6428]

@@PassionforSound Rude? Was I rude?

[@PassionforSound]

It did come across unnecessarily harsh and critical

[@cadmiumpureland]

Yeah, I have to agree with u. A pure tube amp is a totally different category from solid state amp & hybrid. I am sure those who bought this, already had a DAC amp, they just want to try something different. Darkvoice's gain is not a problem at all if your DAC has a volume control. The reviewer is making the assumption that this is the first headphone amp people are gonna buy, which is silly.

[@PassionforSound]

This could easily be the first amp someone buys and also might be paired with any number of DACs that don't provide lossless volume control (or any) such as Geshelli J2, Schiit Modi or Modius, Topping D10S, etc. Not everyone has the ability to reduce their DAC's output. On top of that, if people DO have multiple amps, it can be less than ideal to have your DAC volume reduced when you change amps. I'm sorry if I'm upsetting people who own the Darkvoice - I just don't think it's a particularly good choice as an amp (of any topology) for the money. It's not dreadful at all, but I do think the money can be better spent.