HIDDEN Civilization: What existed in the Amazon Before European Contact?

[@levibuildsbarns5981]

I love the no nonsense, delivery of your content. It’s oddly addicting.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I appreciate it! I’m trying to figure it out but these stories are a lot of fun for me.

[@ScamLikely9327]

Facts. I subscribed like a minute into the first video I found because I just need unadulterated facts.

[@MS-iy4bb]

@@ScamLikely9327 there’s a unique beauty in ‘facts’, no?

[@The_ZeroLine]

Oh wurrrrrrdddd???

[@rookendgame]

I would rather listen to someone talk with curiosity and passion like you about history than some high tech but lifeless production. I am subscribed hope to see more soon

[@datesanddeadguys]

This is an awesome compliment. Thank you. This stuff is super interesting. I’m happy you enjoyed it.

[@Yaboiii97]

As a terminally online anthropology major NEET who spends 90% of his free time watching historical content that's half the quality of this, I sincerely feel like I've smoked crack and you're the only dealer in town. Incredible quality content sir, I'll be hanging on each post (seriously 10/10)

[@KnifeCursed]

One of the most fascinating parts of history: We have only scratched the surface. There’s so much we have no idea about.

[@MS-iy4bb]

That, IS science!

[@bonnieprincecharlie6248]

Very good job on this video. It’s an important subject that should be brought to peoples attention more. I originally heard about this from Graham Hancock’s book and found it quite interesting. Another thing related to this subject that I know of is the explorer who the movie lost city of Z is based on explored the amazon sometime around the late 1800s early 1900s and claimed that he found evidence that there was once huge civilizations there. On his second trip back to find more proof him and his team went missing.

[@ClownVortex]

Love your show buddy,I'm now a subscriber,thanks for teaching me something.

[@theculturedjinni]

You give very good arguments as to why we have not found that much about these civilisations in the amazon due to size, forest overgrowth and the like that have made it hard to find the remnants. One point I was thinking about considering that there seemed to exist a large road network and I think you missed is that it implies probably trade and/or transportation and a river system with boats could also have been used as transportation. This sort of transportation can include various types of food. Ancient Rome with its population above the million mark existed more or less only due to the fact that it was supported by trade and food deliveries from other parts of the empire. The same could also be the case here and thus spots with fertile land could have been used to grow crops that were later transported to the more populous areas that were not fertile enough to support themselves. One thing I have noticed (I am regarding this as a complete novice, my history expertise is in other areas) with regard to the civilisations of the south and central Americans is that they seemed to rely upon complex systems of tributary subordinated polities, which means that they could have been very subjected to infighting once the hegemonic central power was weakened or challenged. This could have been used by the Portuguese and Spanish in order to cause division and easier conquest. If this is combined with disease and loss of centralized power then it is not that strange that civilization seems to have collapsed as it was dependent upon the centralized power of a powerful hegemon that ensured tribute/trade/transportation of food. Anyway, good video!

[@datesanddeadguys]

You bring up an excellent point. I made a video before this one in which I focus on the story of the first exploration and break down Friar Carvajal’s account. Even in that episode I miss the mark on trade networks a little bit. I try hard to keep these things short and fail pretty miserably. But Carvajal writes a lot about the roads being used to connects villages and kingdoms. They stay at one for a while that was ruled by Aparia the Greater, they get tons of visitors from surrounding areas. In another instance they take over a small settlement that was set up for drying fish to later ship to the interior of the jungle where they heard rumors of larger villages. One of them Carvajal claims was the legendary Amazonian Women. If his account is true there could have been massive trade networks in the Amazon Basin.

[@theculturedjinni]

@@datesanddeadguys You have my sympathies I know it is hard to always get all the things within one video (I know that I myself often miss the mark on my history videos) but as you state there seems to be evidence of some sort of either mutual trade network or tributary network. It is fascinating how these civilisations could have existed and maintained themselves.

[@MS-iy4bb]

@@theculturedjinni a plague that quickly sweeps though and wipes out, up to 90%, would more than cause everything you seem to mention… and more.

[@MS-iy4bb]

@@datesanddeadguys An observation I’ve often pondered, if (a) unknown civilization can build massive astronomical structures, 15,000 yrs ago, why wouldn’t they be able to have the other ‘bells and whistles’ that are common in civilizations we know more about….?!? Different variations from what we know today, should be expected, but why doubt their ability to make their lives better?!? What would it take for our civilization to do that, in their similar general situation, wha two irl we need and make, to facilitate it all? Id suspect they were more fundamentally similar to us, than not. The answer may be as simple as asking, when was the last time we domesticated a new plant or vegetable….?!? How many did they domestic… that we know …..??

[@christianedwards6364]

Lidar is a game changer. I hope we can find lots of new sites and civiizations.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I am pumped for it.

[@dr.woozie7500]

If a massive human civilization was able to disappear into the jungle just 500 years ago, this just proves that there are more civilizations that we haven’t yet discovered.

[@MS-iy4bb]

Finding THAT much by LiDAR, in such a small area and amount of time…. Yet there’s no rush to do more. Strange, purposefully strange perhaps?

[@dashsocur]

It's a combination of academic politics and confirmation bias. There's only a limited amount of research grants available and so they tend to go to whoever can play the political game the best. The confirmation bias means that it is "known" that there couldn't be a large civilization there (and it's remote enough that expeditions are also more expensive) and so why would you "waste" funds on looking for nothing?

[@ozzy2725]

now this right here is a binge worthy channel

[@Heyzeus101]

You sound like Brent Spiner. Sometimes I'm doing chores and listening and I'm thinking Data is going on and on about some facts with Geordi.

[@The_ZeroLine]

Fantastic video. This is the first time I’ve heard this theory about how these populations could have been supported and it is so plausible. Modern homes in the midwest we can be swallowed by unchecked plant growth in a few decades. 400 years in the jungle would swallow absolutely everything. Anyway, I’ve been watching the LIDAR discovery for years with utter fascination.

[@W47689]

Could you imagine seeing those cities? Bigger than anything Europe or Asia was capable of. Absolutely fascinating to think all of that lost technology could be waiting somewhere deep in that jungle

[@speakupriseup4549]

That was really fascinating, cool video.

[@mistercidman]

Love the Graham Hancock quote you dropped at the front.

[@williamespinosa9094]

Excellent job sir! Thank you very much 🙌💯❤️

[@davesmith5656]

For the sake of the algorithm and general discussion (after getting over "ADE"), I recall that up in Andean valleys previous civilizations used fertilizers that included fish byproducts (bones and other not cooked and eaten). It isn't inconceivable that such fertilization ideas made their way downhill to the Amazon. "Amazon river" and "fish" could be used by the "prove you're not a robot" quiz found on some websites. I do not know the dates involved, but some one might test soils for "extraneous content" like the dissimilar but interesting whale bones found in what is now the Sahara desert.

[@Noah.J.W17]

great content and great channel 👍

[@datesanddeadguys]

I appreciate the support! These topics are fascinating.

[@melancholicotaku]

Came from Reddit,love the history lesson keep it up

[@datesanddeadguys]

Awesome. I appreciate the support.

[@codyhaddican7325]

I was going to add 3 things but just to add the one on top your mention of Terra preta And hyper dominance,.. is that they figured out aqua panics And could grow crops on the surface of Water with rafts… also, maybe add an extra little tidbit that corn or maze came from South America…..

[@lolz6449]

Love your videos. Thank you ❤

[@ericschmuecker348]

Quick lime production would have made most the soils. Cut trees clear feilds haul rocks builds temple trees fuel the cooking of lime . Lime to plaster temple. Work program like Cahokian and dirt piles into mounds.

[@andrewmaccallum2367]

Yet another excellent video 👏👏👏

[@williamespinosa9094]

That was great! Thank you, sir

[@jaealxndr]

I know that Betty is rolling in her grave now that we know the Amazon was mostly man made😂

[@kristinarain9098]

I've long held the belief that when humans left the place we began from, and earth was not fully separated continents but rather a stretching tearing reaching morphing remnant of Pangaea, we came through what is mainland asia and Siberia, across the land bridge of what is now Alaska and the Aleutian islands, then down through Canada and the now united States, thru central America and way down into the very heart of the Amazon and as far as Chile or south Argentina maybe even Antarctica before it was Antarctica. I believe that these peoples were descendants of what we now call asia proper. This is why asian peoples and native American and south American native all share the same skeletal traits i.e. mongoloid as it's known anthropologically. These people were early followers of the seasons it got warmer the further south they went and what is in the sky going in a southerly arch? What gives life, what do all the flowers and plants and raise their limbs, open their petals, and naturally reach for each dawning day? What brings us out of the horrific inky pitch blackness of night where our greatest fears and scariest urban legends lurk whilst we shelter and hide from all the most cunning and dangerous predatory creatures? The Sun. The Sun gives life. The Sun gave warmth to our early ancestors as they migrated further and further south. Some groups breaking away amongst the plains, the forests, the deserts, then the jungles and dry lands and high rocky craigy highlands where they finally settled and became known as the Incas. The most advanced and incredibly expensive lot. They had everything European civilizations had from the wheel to carts to roads to alphabet, mathematics, calendars, religion based around the sun, and actively conquested against the descendants of their nomadic pastbwho broke away on their own after becoming disenchanted/too encumbered with family, desperation, starvation, rebellion etc. Who knows what reasons they chose but I believe that is why we have such a huge potpourri of cultures similar but still varying slightly from one to the next, most of them had nothing past fire and following the passage of the hunt in order to feed themselves. Whilst others made concrete structures, roads, jewelry, slavery , divine rulership , animal husbandry, pottery, art, and academia and varying degrees of entertainment , currencies, weaponry, and written language/ alphabets to immortalize their legends and chronical their past. Some had none of that and only knew to hunt game, and take what they wanted from their neighbors and exercised brutality never before witnessed elsewhere (the commanche and their all out genocide of their neighbors after the Spanish gave them the Horse) Like many civilizations that settled either in Europe, the middle east , Europe, etc. The real test of their strength and longevity and survival was their ability to ADAPT to things that come with settling and growing fat and large in numbers. Adding a hostile jungle climate, an even more hostile and disease infested , poisonous insect ridden jungle , and suddenly, human beings start developing diseases and poxa that only an adaptable society can weather and overcome and eventually defeat or.. be defeated by. I think 90% of these people lived in societies that couldn't handle the excesses of high populations stacked on top of themselves in such a humid and nasty environment. They didn't make it. Moma nature had other plans I guess

[@tonicastel5933]

Fascinating! Thanks.

[@anthonymcclelland7376]

Your videos are amazing, but using a Graham Handcock quote at the start of this one doesn't look good for you man.

[@Lykapodium]

Did the stone temples have pilots?

[@williamespinosa9094]

Thank you sir

[@realCliffordJones]

I've just discovered your channel and find it very compelling. Thanks. The point of this video brought to mind another I've recently watched. I hope the link comes through here. Basically, with DNA research and archeology, he's found that the Europeans, when coming to the Americas, came upon massive civilizations that had recently experienced profound decline. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHvQo6Nnab2JacU

[@datesanddeadguys]

Archeology is going to find a ton in the next few decades in regard to these ancient civilizations in America. I am here for it. A ton is shrouded in mystery.

[@tr7b410]

The Amazon women might just be another grouping of an Atlantian exodus that went way back =11k years.He stated they looked Caucasian & were a bit taller than the local tribal people,s.

[@datesanddeadguys]

They did say that. I have no idea what to make of that.

[@W47689]

Possible vikings came down to the Amazon and mingled with the locals

[@Witnessmoo]

Highly doubtful there was a civilisation as we understand it there… agriculture would have been nearly impossible

[@knotzed]

4:05 the Smithsonian would say that and have that theory about the Amazon

[@shaggyrumplenutz1610]

Terra preta can be found in north America.

[@elshebactm6769]

🤠👍🏿

[@danielburgess7785]

Hancock's claims have been largely debunked. Squaring the circle being one of the most blatant exaggerations. Great claims require great evidence.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I don’t know that debunked is the correct word. A lot of main stream archeology tends to resist a lot of his beliefs. And to be fair some seem outlandish. A lot of his work looks to provide high levels of meaning into ancient construction. For example the mouth of the great serpent mound he believes intentionally faces where the sun is during a specific time of year. I don’t know that all of that is probable but he’s hit the mark on a lot. Civilizations being far older than we imagined being a huge one. I think people like him are important to push boundaries. As for the Amazon, most of this episode draws from sources other than or in addition to Hancock. Daniel Wilkinson probably the most.

[@danielburgess7785]

@@datesanddeadguys The mainstream of archeology is academically conservative but when shown hard evidence (like the LiDAR scan of Guatemala) they embrace new knowledge and new techniques. Logic says you make a statement then are prepared to support the statement. Merely saying "It's what I believe" does nothing to establish a firm base for the statement, Hancock often plays with smoke and mirrors instead of backing up his claims. He enters, not quite but close 'Ancient Astronauts' territory.

[@yungfiend6830]

Let me get this straight, you’re starting off a video with a Graham Hancock quote? Pseudoscience. Please don’t use Hancock as a source material he has no actual experience in archaeology, he’s a fiction writer who presents his books as nonfiction to make money. I’m seriously disappointed in this channel for using Hancock’s pseudoscience and spreading misinformation. Unsubscribed.

[@Daveforever]

Hamcock is full of shit.

[@UVJ_Scott]

I can’t believe how many “facts” taught in our public schools are just totally wrong.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I see paleontologists hedge their bets quite a bit. It’s good practice. They say that what they are presenting in regard to dinosaurs is based entirely on present evidence and that new or better evidence can change their beliefs. In regard to ancient societies specifically I think the same disclaimer is fair. We think X because or Y but if Y changes we will fairly reevaluate X.

[@MS-iy4bb]

@@datesanddeadguys one would expect that habit to be a natural part of most of all they present, no? Especially in the social sciences…

[@davesmith5656]

ADE = Amazonian Dark Earth. Everyone I know knows this, even my Chinese waitress! Please, if you are going to save your precious breath by not using any more syllables than you believe are required for understanding, then define your acronyms CLEARLY and FREQUENTLY before tossing them out as if everyone listening or reading were intimately familiar with your particular isolated field in the middle of the Amazon. MA ADD VOR MDF SG2 CDO CC V1 MOV ADD ND? Sorry, I'm up to the gills in unspecified acronyms and it ticks me off! ADE = Amazonian Dark Earth. I had to go back and listen five minutes of replay. A web search suggested "Arizona Department of Agriculture" or "Adverse Drug Effects" or "a drink".

[@datesanddeadguys]

ADE is Amazonian Dark Earth or Terra Preta. It was introduced the first time the term and acronym were used.

[@davesmith5656]

@@datesanddeadguys --- Thank you, I went back and relistened and found it, and edited my comment. It may confuse some people because usually acronyms in historical context are somewhat similar "AD BCE BC" and ADE is suggestive of "Ante-deluvian" (or however AI (Artificial Intelligence) spells that). I'm new to your channe, pleased by your scholarship and presentations, but "ADE" is a bit obscure to define only once. Some guys on a home renovatoon site verbally thumbed their noses at me because I did not know what MDF and LVL stand for (medium density fiber and laminated veneer lumber).

[@datesanddeadguys]

Spectacular. Thanks friend.

[@davesmith5656]

@@datesanddeadguys ---- One of the difficulties I think I see in today's society is the disconnection brought on by intense specialization. Many people vote in a vacuum of understanding, voting for "looks and impressions" rather than for integrity and policies. It might be an interesting party to invite biologists, MD's, bankers, physicists, gardeners, hairdressers, plumbers, electricians, and cab drivers; then ask for opinions about the direction the world is heading in.

[@decem_sagittae]

Did you actually use Graham Hancock as a reliable source?

[@datesanddeadguys]

There tend to be two camps with Hancock. I find his work to be out there but interesting. I also think he is important because he pushes boundaries in a way the mainstream often doesn’t and in some cases like on the age of civilizations he has been regularly proven right. But because much of his work is highly theoretical, looking at him through a skeptical lens is smart. The bulk of information comes from Dave Wilkinson, who Hancock draws heavily from and cites in his book, America Before. Wilkinson’s article is fascinating and linked in the episode description.

[@decem_sagittae]

@@datesanddeadguys out there? All his "theories" are schizophrenic pseudohistory nonsense that have been repeatedly disproved and rejected by actual scholars and historians. I watched a bunch of your videos and thought you were legit. Idk what sort of audience you're trying to attract but good luck my friend.

[@rodmunch1931]

300 years later? Cmon, I’m calling CAP. Europeans were writing stuff down and printing immediately during that time. This isn’t classical times where they were carving into stone. Great story though.

[@dr.woozie7500]

Not necessarily true. You needed money and resources to print your findings, who is to say the account wasn’t kept in storage for 300+ years? Keep in mind Orellana was also defying Pizarro and going against the orders of the Spanish crown, so they had no incentive to publicize their findings.

[@johndonahue3509]

Do a story on the babrbarism of the CONQUISTADORS

[@datesanddeadguys]

I did one on their use of War Hounds last summer. I would like to do more. I also did one on their exploration of the Amazon but that was more of a survival story than it was anything else.

[@johndonahue3509]

@@datesanddeadguys Crap...sry, .I looked thru them, missed it tho.....will.go back and view.

[@johndonahue3509]

THERE was a civilization there wiped out by SMALLPOX AND SICKNESS