Dating, Fitting into Queer Spaces and Representation as a Gay POC

#dating #lgbt #poc
Hello guys, apologies for the lighting in the video, we forgot that the sun goes down hahaha. This video explores issues of being a gay person of colour and the difficulties of being a minority in predominantly white countries. We will be talking about how some gridnr profiles say no asians or blacks, why it's difficult to fit into queer spaces as a POC and why theres hardly any good person of color gay role models. Please feel free to comment and let me know what you think of our views and opinions! Thankyou for watchingggg.
0:00 Introduction
0:30 Dating
3:21 Is having a racial preference racist?
7:32 Fitting into Queer Spaces
12:30 Racism at Alternative Spaces
14:20 White Twinks
14:49 Gay POC representation
19:00 White Dominated spaces
21:16 Pressures of being the only POC on the scene
21:58 White F*tishisation of POC people
22:59 Don’t touch my ethnic hair !
26:16 Difficulty finding other POC friends
28:52 Shared racial struggles
29:46 Conclusion, pls like n sub 🙂

[@_yeriko]

you two have such amazing platonic chemistry, if you all had a podcast i would TOTALLYY listen!! I’m a 19yr old gay guy from a very conservative city in texas and finding gay friends, let alone non-bitchy gay friends is SOOO HARD- here’s to hoping i can find a friendship like yall’s someday

[@SilverDan10]

Oh my god this is such a cute comment, thankyou! Me and Alfie are super happy reading this :). It’s so nice that our friendship shows through the camera. I really hope you find some non bitchy gay friends too!!!❤️

[@_yeriko]

@@SilverDan10 🫶🫶

[@NoOmgWay]

I think having a preference is something that happens naturally due to upbringing, environment, etc. like yall said. The issue arises when someone declares that they won't date a whole race for whatever reason. It's just really weird to think that way & it's really discriminatory because saying that implies you'd rule out someone no matter how conventionally attractive they are simply based on skin likeeee c'mon now

[@SilverDan10]

I agree :)

[@yaneznayoui1597]

You can just simply not be attracted to the phenotypes of a race. I don't see why that's inherently wrong? We all have different characteristics which is a reality there's no convicting morality any individual is obligated to be attracted to them all. It's very similar to having a favorite color, food, music genre. There's no rational reason necessarily a person couldn't exclusively like something like a color, they just do and it's subjective to their own arbitrary feeling. If someone prefers an Asian person, or a white person, or a black person, or no person, I fail to see why you care, unless there's an inferiority complex present that's being projected because you feel rejection is a personal attack. That's quite clearly a personal psychological issue you should talk to someone about, not something to berate someone for because you can't cope with someone not being attracted to you. Not everyone's going to be attracted to you, or your features, or whatever, at some point you have to develop the coping skills to deal with that and be able to be okay with it. No one owes you attraction.

[@NoOmgWay]

@yaneznayoui1597 I'm not sure where all of this is coming from, but it sounds like a lottttt of projection. & for you to type out your comment and then suggest I'm the one who needs psychological help is rather...ironic. Also, pointing out something being weird ≠ I have a complex, am constantly rejected, & have no self-awareness lol. But anyways, we clearly have different viewpoints and that's perfectly okay ✨️💓

[@yaneznayoui1597]

@@NoOmgWay Where to start, you know what baby, lets break it down bit by bit. lol "I'm not sure where all of this is coming from, but it sounds like a lottttt of projection. & for you to type out your comment and then suggest I'm the one who needs psychological help is rather...ironic." So, this is coming from the fact it's a comment section 💀 I'm not sure if you know how that works, but it's a place where people engage with each other. Which is ironic because if I had said something agreeable to what you said you wouldn't be acting so obtuse, but because it was contrarian suddenly it's "projection" and "in need of psychological help." It's giving the energy of someone who's never been disagreed with before. Also, pointing out something being weird ≠ I have a complex, am constantly rejected, & have no self-awareness lol. But anyways, we clearly have different viewpoints and that's perfectly okay You're right, you *seemingly* have a complex. Yes, we have different viewpoints, you must be described by your teachers as a keen observer of the obvious. And what's with the need to constantly affirm things? i.e., "and that's perfectly okay?" what are we children? It's just a disagreement, I don't need affirmations as if it's trauma lol, but it's gives insight into how you view dissent.

[@ShadowProject01]

Preference means you *prefer* something or someone. The problem is those who tend to use the term “preference” exclude every and any other type or race. You see “whites only. It’s just a preference.” That’s not a preference that’s exclusionary. I prefer Middle Eastern men, but I will date any race if there’s a connection

[@sovjejkies]

That IS a preference though. Btw I don’t have a racial preference but I can understand that people want to date a single race (makes sense if they grew up around that race).

[@yaneznayoui1597]

A person can have an exclusionary preference. lol I can only listen to classical music which excludes other forms of music, but you can't apply a social justice lens to that as it's not the same as denying a black person entry to a hospital. It's not like being attractive to someone is a human right. My God! 🤣

[@yasinradee]

Those apps are not for gays that are lookin for a relationship. As an older gay man, when those apps first came out, they were supposed to be for us to find each other and find love.

[@aneji9383]

Love the video and topic, honestly as a POC I never feel welcomed in LGBTQ spaces so I mostly just abandon the community sadly 🤷🏿‍♂️btw Alfie is sooo cute! 🥰 sending love from America🖤💙

[@Deg40000]

Okay same! I’m a trans poc guy and it’s just annoying having to deal with the unrealistic beauty standards constantly

[@derangedandconfused9861]

I am a 23 year old gay man from the US, and I just wanted to say that I would love to be friends wkth you fellows. You seem like safe people to be around. Best of luck! 😊

[@SilverDan10]

Awww thankyou so much!!! We’d love to be friends with you too :)

[@dominiqueprice3304]

It’s totally still an issue in America. And if there is interest in you it’s more often than not a sexual fetish which for me is not attractive nor complimentary.

[@christopherdieudonne]

3:21 I'm black American. I also don't think it's racist to prefer (or not to prefer) a certain race for dating and romance. There are black people who only date other blacks but they are not considered racist. So that should be the case for everyone. What's racist is putting on dating app files, "no blacks, no asians, etc" because it's like showing up to a party and immediately telling certain people not to talk to you simply because of their race. It's ok to have racial preferences. It's noy ok to be an a$$hole about it.

[@StillJustD]

That was extremely stupid. Racial preferences are exactly that RACIST! To say you don't like certain races means you hav automatically excluded every person from the race. It would be one thing if everyone looked the same but they don't. There are asians who look latino, there are (non mixed) black people who can easily pass for white. There are latinos who could pass for asian, or white. So if you meet one of them are you going to stop dating them if they randomly one day say, "Oh I have to do xxx cultural thing" and you find out they aren't the race you thought they were? Oh wait I don't date latinos. So I can't date you because I thought you were asian, etc. I swear. it never fails.... there's always some R-word who doesn't think before they speak. And can we NOT call it a preference. A preference is when you like one thing better but if you don't have it you will have something else. When gays say "preference" they mean They completely exclude something. That's NOT a preference!

[@ryanthomas49]

A dating profile can be as discriminatory and exclusive as a person wants to make it. You stated yourself that people in your community date within your group, but yet no one calls you out for it. To tell someone that they need to be attracted to another person for the sake of inclusion is MAJOR incel behavior.

[@christopherdieudonne]

@@ryanthomas49 Yeah, they date within their group for sure. But they also don't have a reputation of saying "'no whites" in their profiles.

[@cadecannon159]

@@ryanthomas49but that’s what he said.

[@ryanthomas49]

@cadecannon159 no. He then said "but what's racist is (proceeds to list things that aren't racist).

[@urhexgirl]

Dan I think you should have a podcast because this was really interesting and entertaining

[@SilverDan10]

Aww thankyou so much! I don’t think it would be as fun if I was alone but would definitely make one with someone else 😅 xx

[@maragrasso1189]

So interesting & educational & it’s so re-freshing that u guys are able to express your feelings towards each other & us, with a good sense of humour, which I feel is so important for others that can relate & have experienced similar situations. Loved it ! Lovely, friendly guys ❤❤

[@Sunshineglittergirl14]

will try and watch the full video tomorrow!

[@joelrapp8436]

it's funny when people say racial sexual preferences aren't racist or colorist due to being formed by environment, experience and culture. In America the predominate culture and media is based around promoting white beauty standards and the white experience being considered the default or valued most. So if your environment shapes you and your environment is built on racist ideas... I think we all have racial biases ( unconscious or not )based on years of conditioning and cultural reinforcement. I think people want to hold on to their racial biases and not challenge them for various reasons. they don't want to be told they're a racist or made to bad for holding racist ideas. It seems easier for people to support each other in passively excusing their racism than helping one another to understand and deal with it.

[@yaneznayoui1597]

People can formulate preferences outside the influence of their environment. An environment isn't demonic possession lol. For example a person can be raised in a country where everyone has to have 1 religion by law, like an Islamic state, yet still determine they don't believe in it despite everyone around them still believing it. A person can come to that conclusion all on their own. Congruently, a person can come to the conclusion all on their own they find one group to be more physically attractive than another and have a preference for it. Even before colonization, and all the other buzzwords you guys commonly use A though experiment to demonstrate this further: Before Europe was even a concept, lets say a random white person managed to make their way to Africa and stumbled upon a group of people, and lets say one African person was struck by their beauty and decided they really like it more than the people around them. Then what? It's a completely random conclusion they're able to make outside of any influences all on their own. Kind of like a person can see a color and it just so happens to strike them to be the best, for example I think Green is the best color, why? I don't know I just do. It's my preference over all the others. Preferences for dating can work in the exact same way. Humans are capable of deciding for themselves, any person can randomly without influence decide they are attracted to one group over another. And that's not inherently bad. Everyone likes different things. It's not like attraction is this open book where every metric of person is accessible to every single person. You guys treat attraction like a human rights issue, as if it's something you're entitled to and it's very strange. I can only imagine if this sort of rhetoric became popular for conservative Christian women to say, that gay men excluding women from their dating is sexist because it's exclusionary and patriarchal, you guys would have to do mental gymnastics to explain why it's okay for you to exploit social justice language as leverage against people who don't feel attraction to you, but it' not okay for others to do the same. Isn't it easier to just allow people to pursue what they want as opposed to trying to control it to your desire?

[@ngwailung3751]

❤❤ I feel the same way and thanks for making another valuable video

[@sunmarsh]

U.S. stats say 12% black vs 4% black in the UK. That number is likely off as the Cheato stopped the census count early in 2020, and this is likely to affect counts of minority populations the most. Regardless, the distribution across the US varies widely and there are many places that are ‘majority minority’. There is also a big problem with racial profiling here in the states. A quick glance at the negative reviews for just about any concert or venue will make this evident. 😔

[@ajames283]

The keyword is "consent", which can be taken away at any time for any reason, or even no reason.

[@KindellArmstrong]

It’s the same unfortunate situation in the US when it comes to dating and race.

[@user-fb2bo7dw8o]

like everywhere. white guys can find love and success anywhere everywhere as most people adore them..

[@exlesoes]

I'm Jordanian I have so many issues with skin tone 😔 I'm almost 34 and also issues with body hair I'm not gonna lie. I only ever dated mostly blonde white men for a while now that I think about it... I don't have a type I just went with anyone that noticed me at the time lol

[@CharlieCabralos]

Do you remember where you got that top? It's so cute

[@SilverDan10]

Aw thankyou, it was just some alternative/goth type stall in Manchester :)

[@arianalovelace1133]

It’s the same for brown woman aswel white guys line up to have sex with me but they never want a relationship they always get into relationships with white girls.Having a colour preference is racist for white people but for us we usually go for white because the UK is mainly white but I even meet black guys that don’t like brown girls

[@nardieinjapan]

Sigh, wish there were more mes in England.

[@_M_D_E_]

So, we understand exclusionary practices when it comes to everything but race? If you can validate an argument based on the majority of people you have been around, we can do the same with fat people, trans, etc. Then you come with the “black people who only date black people” trope and describe that as racist, you understand going out into the world and being anxious to talk to men because they may be straight and homophobic and that could harm you, but you don’t understand black people not dating white people because they could be racist or have family that is racist and could do you harm. Have you ever dated a man and been asked to leave his house because his dad doesn’t like “black people”? This doesn’t exist in the same way for white men dating black men. Because the “system” is set up in a way to protect the white body vs. the body of colour. A white man doesn’t have to worry about a black man’s family members being in the K*K or having a genuine investment in harming them simply because they are a different colour and having the institutional and societal power to actually do harm. Black people and POC could literally be taking a risk dating a person who isn’t of colour and the reverse isn’t true. So there may be some caution in that dynamic and that isn’t racist, it’s an act of self-preservation due to a history of violence perpetuated by one group towards another based on the colour of their skin. Then there is the conversation about culture and the disconnect that can occur, that takes work and some aren’t willing to do that work (that’s a more valid excuse btw). Saying you prefer one race over the other because “that’s all I know, that’s mostly who I hang with/see/encounter” is not the scapegoat you think it is. That means you need to do the work to diversify your life. You want Target to go out of their way and diversify the types bodies in their store (which isn’t free) but you can’t do the same (for free) in your life and then say “oh, all i see and experience in my life is mostly white” - that’s a you problem. You control your environment and attraction is dynamic and not concrete. By diversifying the people you hang with or encounter and doing the work to understand what is actually racist may help broaden your horizons. Most of us are old enough know how to do this work. Skin color isn’t a valid excuse for being not attracted to someone. We aren’t houses or cars or simple machines. We understand this when it comes to everything but race. But then again, when you aren’t on the receiving end of the “exclusion” you can get away with not understanding it. So, if you don’t know any black people, well not enough to understand that race is a construct created and used for separation, dehumanization and othering AND exclusionary decisions based on only race inherit those same properties. Your country being over 80% non-black/POC is also not an excuse because that’s still a lot of non-white people lol you can go outside and interact with non-white people if you wanted to. Then - If you are saying you aren’t attracted to black people…which ones? European blacks? Mexican blacks? German blacks? French blacks? Blacks from LA? Blacks from Dublin? Oh, you mean the blacks from Norway, Russia, Spain, Italy, and those little islands we haven’t found floating in the ocean. And, what shade of brown constitutes black for you because it’s different all over the world? At what tinge does the black become a disqualifying factor? All the “blacks”? Have you seen all the “blacks”? Do they all look the same to you, or is that because you have preferences based in racism and don’t see the person past their skin color? And if so that’s cool, but you can’t then complain that people don’t see you past your certain features when you don’t do the work to fix that very thing about yourself and get on the internet before doing any research to understand the issue. Attraction is dynamic. You can do the work to change it. You just have to want to do better. Not doing the work is fine too, just, be real. Otherwise what specifically about a “race” makes them quantifiably unattractive? I forgot: having racist or prejudice practices isn’t a condemnation of your soul as long as you are willing to work/learn how to do better. Not complicated. Oops, I found out that I’m a bit racist - let’s fix that - doesn’t make you a horrible person if you are willing to unlearn and make positive changes.

[@SilverDan10]

Okay so I I think that any preference is fine and valid, race age body type etc but you might be a bit closed minded if you 100% would never no matter what be willing to deviate from your preference. I said that saying you would never date a black person ever ever ever is a bit strange because you’re closing yourself off to the idea of a whole race when shared culture is more important in compatibility than shared race in my opinion. I would question someone’s thought process behind that statement of I 100% would never ever date x race. I grew up in a town that has near to 0% black people and the city that I live in now hardly has any black people who live here too. I can’t widen my horizon yet with going to places that have more diversity because I’m a young broke university student who still hasn’t graduated yet and I come from a very low income background. It’s obvious that if the vast majority of people I’ve been around are white and my current dating pool options are majority white, I’m more likely going to have a preference to white people in dating but that doesn’t mean I’m not open to other races. I’m really confused as to why you think that “I’m a bit racist” ?

[@_M_D_E_]

@@SilverDan10 So..this is a lot I know.. So, not specifically addressing you - or at least I tried not to but I probably failed. I do understand what a preference is, and I did hear you. Starting with, “I’m more likely going to have a preference to white people in dating”, due to your environment and its lack of diversity. Is it the color of your environment that informs your preference? If so why? White people act and look just as diverse as any other group of people. So, you are surrounded by a sea of non-black/POC peoples, what about them leads you to adopt a preference for the one thing they all have in common that you don't - the color of their skin? Given, white people are not a monolith and come in so many verities of attitude, body shape, height etc. : It is first of all - reductive/simple - to have a preference for “race" simply based on the availability/lack of alternate races in your environment, especially when you aren’t apart of that group. To prefer, I believe, implies that one is informed of the alternates. Example: I prefer apple 1 to apple 2 because apple 2 is mealy and sour. My preference for apple 1 is informed not because I have no access to apple 2 but because of experience. This does not, however, work for race, because apple 2 is going to most likely be the same - everywhere (generally). Therefore my association of “sour” and “mealy” is probably going to be a constant. This does not work when we say I prefer one race over the other - there is no inherent quality or characteristic of a race that defines it other than skin color. When you exit your environment, do you still “prefer” white men? Outside of the color of their skin what is it that remains constant that validates your narrow attraction? Can we answer these questions when we describe our preferences? Citing “environment” is very meh, and lacks effort in understanding . It disassociates us from the fact that maybe, just maybe there is more to it. I would say you have no preference at all for race - If genuinely, all you know is one particular “thing”, how could you prefer something, when you have no experience of anything else? (That sounds kind of Fetish-y I know but that is not what I mean, but then again, thats a major major thing in the gay community). “I prefer white men due to the absence of black/poc men in my environment” is an ignorant take on preference and that excuse is weak as water (not saying this is your preference or reason for your preferences). Dating what is available is not a “preference” you can not chose one thing over the other, you don’t have a preference because you don't have a choice, you eat what’s on the table. Can that grow into a preference or bias - possible, I don't know - I do this because it feels save and familiar isn't racist I suppose -, but once you are out in the “wild” at what point does it simply become the fault of the individual and not the environment? “I can’t widen my horizon.,..[I am broke]”. You can’t and probably shouldn’t go on a physical quest to find as many Black/POC people to become familiar with. But, just as I can watch videos and become informed about different things on the Internet to “widen my horizon”. Anyone can. We have the internet, books, movies, all types of media to consume to actually inform our But- that’s not always a great idea either - a lot of media is formed around racist ideologies so our preference would be - tainted if we lacked that ability to recognize these things (which also takes work mostly reading and listening to broaden our horizons on the experiences other people have when living in the same world we do we can see this in attractions and preferences based on adult entertainment videos). I like X because thats all I see is strange…I prefer and am attracted to people and characteristics I've never met or seen, some people are attracted to things that aren’t even real, but this attraction was formed by, yes, their environment, but also the media and such that they consume. If you can’t make list of why you prefer one race over the other and the only bullet point is “”welp, all I've been around is race X” I won’t call that racist but it is very ignorant. Sure, there are cultural differences, that didn’t stop invasions, doesn’t stop commerce, doesn’t stop the most complex of human interactions…but when it comes to romance…oh man, that cant be overcome. No, it can be, you (not you you) just don’t find it worth the effort. The whole reason this video exists is because it is commonly understood that within the gay community many men employ these practices of preference because of phobias and racism. So, marjoritively, yes - it is racist to say “no blacks/POC”. I know, you personally may not have a preference rooted in what you perceive to be racist/not-racist but you are an individual. You can in fact change what you are attracted to, not saying you have to. But when you know that your “preference” hurts others, even if that is not your intention. What do we do about that? Do, we not adapt? Why not seek change? Or, do we sit by comfortably knowing that whatever we believe is valid - harmful - but valid. What is best for the least of us benefits all of us as a community. Yes, we all have racist or prejudice ideas, practices, preferences, and habits. It is impossible to grow up in a society in which racism was used as its foundation and not internalize some of that bile. It doesn’t make you a bad person, It is something that can be indented and changed through active thought, information, and a willingness to change. When I hear, “any preference is fine and valid, race age body” I actually hear, “ It doesn’t hurt me so, what of it?” So you have your preference, so you perceive it to be valid - that does not change the harm it may cause others or the fact that it is rooted in ignorance of whatever kind. Especially since it can be changed. But, why change when we are comfortable, sure others are uncomfortable, but I am not. No, I don’t think you are racist. I don't think I am either, but do we all do things that are influenced by racism - yes. Can we acknowledge those - yes and we do better.

[@dorian875]

I dony think there is anything wrong with having racial preferences and they are informed by the people you are around and the media we consume. This is why representation matters, and for those of if us who struggle yo find partners; it is a area you can explore in broadening your horizons.

[@salaciousness]

Could we get the channel of the black UK lesbian?

[@SilverDan10]

Kidology

[@salaciousness]

@@SilverDan10 Oh! Thank you! 💓💕

[@SilverDan10]

@@salaciousness no problem ❤️🖤 x

[@johndurham1633]

Get off the apps

[@bruceeyster6601]

WHAT'S IT ALL ABOUT ALFIE?

[@jasonsubhan8479]

I'm mixed heritage (white/asian) and I'm attracted to white guys. I don't like any discrimination whatsoever but I have to admit that I do have a preference for young white guys. I have noticed on dating apps that some white guys specifically want to date black guys so I think it boils down to personal preference.

[@ebenezer9884]

That's amazing. I'm black but it's very rare to see white guys who are strictly black guy seeking. 😮

[@Newbounderies24]

If you are selective about a race you are a racist. I personally see beauty non any race and fascinated by different cultures and traditions. In the US the gay community is very racist and this is not talked about or just regarded as “sexual preference “ but it’s just racism. You come across some many profiles on apps saying no Asians, no blacks, so specific. I can’t see how skin color can be a deal breaker. I understand cultural backgrounds may not be compatible but to judge based on skin color is racist. So you’re not attracted to brown men beacuse they are brown? That is 100% racist.

[@damonmelendez856]

There’s nothing wrong with having *any* kind of preference.

[@gardennormie2859]

Lemme guess you've never faced discrimination in your life

[@damonmelendez856]

@@gardennormie2859 idgaf who likes me or not. Humans will always have preferences.

[@user-wy1jx6if9j]

@@gardennormie2859-That literally has nothing to do with his statement, you’re just pushing your narrative on others.

[@gardennormie2859]

@@damonmelendez856 humans will have preferences but some preferences should not be normalized or acceptelable. For example someone's preferences is to date someone who is underage this is wrong and should not be acceptable and normalized Another example is someone saying " I don't date white people ,simply for the reason they are white." That is an seemingly okay preference to have but it is obviously layered in a level of racism when looking deeper into it A preference should not exclude instead it should prefer like "I prefer oranges over apples but I'll still eat apples." If it was "I'll never eat apples I only like oranges" that isn't a preference it is a dislike/distain

[@damonmelendez856]

@@gardennormie2859 Every human also has dislike/ disgust/ disdain for certain things. You’re seriously delusional if you think that you can force people to ‘like’ what *you* consider ‘acceptable’. Any change might only come from within, not by threats or propaganda from someone deciding what is ‘acceptable’. Re-education camps have already been tried, you might want to see how that worked out.

[@xionelectra]

Tone deaf and tippytoeing around the idea

[@ryanthomas49]

People have preferences and you need to accept it. No one will give you validation simply for being a POC.

[@SilverDan10]

I think having a racial presence is fine. I just wanted to talk about the nuances and experiences of being a POC in a white majority country where the beauty standard is white.