Grover Tuners - Are they a good replacement?

Here is a story that will make your toes curl, in fact I am still quite annoyed with these Grover Tuners.
What I don’t like is paying top prices for quality products and getting very poor results, I can’t believe that a big name brand such as this would churn out this kind of rubbish.
Yes I did have the chance of getting my money back and I would have done if I hadn’t of needed the guitar for gigs, after a year of using these tuners I can safely say they still annoy me.
One thing though...
I have not seen anybody complain about these tuners, was I just unlucky or is it a particular model (tulip head) that was affected?
locking tuners here axetec.co.uk/gu...
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[@therapy4thesick]

Just put new set Grover 205bcl6 from Ebay and first thing i noticed was how tight they were and 18 -1 ration. Secondly when i got them installed the guitar seemed to have slight better resonance I tightened my lock ( yes new High end tuners on a floyd guitar lol) I still had the extra resonance. So even though some of us have locking nuts id still suggest changing tuners as my old ones must have had play in them and were affecting the guitar.(These are the tuners Grover was using on his USA Jacksons with a lock) Do watch out as to getting right model for height and screw hole positions.

[@jobelewis6416]

It's likely they were outsourced versions. You can often tell as where it says 'Grover', if it's stamped clearly it's proper Grovers and vice versa

[@pickinthatbanjo]

I have a set of grover vintage from 10 years ago on my SG, they are far from rubbish. I don't know what they make these days for quality but I'll be looking for a second set shortly for another guitar I'm setting up

[@matthewbolduc2714]

Great idea. You can expect Grovers' to be great. I also have others like Planet Waves Locking tuners on a Jazzmaster. The Grovers seem to be manufactured to a higher and more artistically pleasing level. But the Planet Wave tuners are very excellent in their own right.

[@markir9]

I'd add a +1 for Gotoh. I (accidentally) ended up with 2 sets of Gotoh locking tuners (left and right handed). They both have absolutely no play, plus are very smooth and make tuning so pleasant! The left handed set that I didn't mean to buy I put on my budget Jackson JS30...and wow, so much easier to tune!

[@dawidczerniak5177]

I’ve bought a g-45 studio with Grover mini tuners and right away I didn’t like them... haven’t been able to do anything about it yet but I’m thinking about taking them to a Gibson luthier to upgrade them. And please don’t think that I’m complaining in any way a g-45 is the cheapest Gibson acoustic there is so I expected that something could not be perfect with it ( I was wrong the guitar is prefect) and it’s the Grover tuners!

[@matthewbolduc2714]

I like Grovers. Had many sets over many years. No complaints. Even the stock ones on inexpensive Epiphones' were very decent, although I often thought they were possibly licensed copies, or something. I've been very satisfied however, with 'all' of the new sets of Grovers that I have purchased from aftermarket places. I especially like the Roto Grip Rotomatics on strats and other guitars with matching set screw alignment. These Roto Grips are equal to the best tuners that I have previously used. Grover 18:1 tuners have been found to be very accurate, precise, smooth, and most especially they are very very easy to turn. These end stiff tuning keys. Observations seem to conclude that the tuners of which you speak, are unacceptable imposters. No one likes unacceptable imposters. I would suggest throwing them out at your earliest chance. Fender locking tuners are of good quality. And there are other great options. But I consider Grovers' to be equal to the best of the others. If you or anyone finds better tuners, readily available on the open commercial market, please post your findings here. Much appreciated. Great business people stand behind their products. Reputation is built this way. Many of these Chinese companies are very interested in your satisfaction and they go out of their way to keep you satisfied. This characteristic varies from one seller to another. Reliable sources are valuable.

[@combatlogsbydarrylzuber8565]

Dude , I just typed into the search bar Grover tuner review because the Grover tuners on my Les Paul don't stay in tune worth a shit . I thought maybe I just got a bum set. Your video came up, I'm looking at locking tuners too. No more Grover's.

[@haveyterry6038]

Dave I have Grovers on all my guitars no problem so far I'm in Texas , hell I'll send you a good set

[@SDPickups]

I have Grovers that came on the Gibson Elitists. Then I worked on a guy's 1968 Les Paul with Grovers and I was SHOCKED at precision made they were. They were wonderful. Maybe I should be looking for Chinese knock offs if they are way better....

[@verruckterwissenschaftler]

Not sure, but watching your videos, where you at by the way, are always a great time and a good ider.

[@AMGL1989]

Idk if you figured it out. Mine did the same. I tightened the screws at the top, and they stopped doing that.

[@marcoruorio5846]

Upgrading to Shallers really gave tuning stability and tunability, i recommend these over groovers anytime

[@robertgarland805]

Cost $50 more than the Grover lockers I just ordered. Satisfied. The ones I replaced were 35 years old.

[@kirkmcinerney8757]

Bought a set of Grovers for my SG and within 6mo. One of the tuners actually failed, like wouldn't hold at all. That said I have a set that came on my Tanglewood acoustic/electric that are amazing. Smooth operation and will go multiple songs without going even slightly out of tune.

[@MrRoberacer]

I recently did a deal for a second hand bass that came with OEM Grover machines on it. I happen to have an older bass that also has Grovers on it as well and as that one is 20 years older and they have never needed replacing I have been pretty happy with them. BTW you should know both have model 144's on them. The bass I bought recently had one machine swapped out which was a different colour and an approximation of the same tuner that was on the bass. Honestly it seemed better built but I wanted them all to match. I came to find out that the Grover 144's (It think all Grovers but don't quote me on that) are warrantied for life and when I asked Grover if that warranty was transferable I found out it was as well. It is a 5 string and to get them all matching I had to replace all 5 as the broken one is in a colour that is not longer available. They sold me the set of 5 and gave me a credit for the 1 broken one so they came good for them. The new ones seem to be much more solid than the ones on the bass so I am thinking there is a manufacturing process change that has taken place somewhere along the lines. Maybe try talking to Grover direct if you haven't already. They seemed to be very accommodating.

[@mattz1686]

I can't recommend hipshot griplock open back tuners enough. They are super smooth, look awesome, and hold tuning perfectly

[@itsrob2321]

I had the same problem with my Gibson AG Parlor. I bought it brand new from a reputable company, but I also thought the Grovers had to be fake. They disgust me also. I own a dozen guitars and even some cheaper instruments, ukelele, mandolin, banjos. Not one of them has tuners as nasty as those Grovers. It really makes me mad that I have to replace my tuners, plus I had to setup the nut as well. I love the Gibson otherwise, but these companies just aren’t trying very hard to be good. Best wishes.

[@harrywilson9581]

I got grovers after I broke the tuners on my les Paul, they weren't faulty or anything but I expected higher quality for the money I paid.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Interesting

[@cloven1971]

Hey man. Just watched your video. I have a 98 Les Paul Standard. And they came with the kidney bean Grover tuners. Which were and are still great. Traded them out for the tulip keystone knobs like yours. About 58 us. An like you were saying the were rubbish. Then I took them back to the shop and got a set of the milk bottle Grovers. More of a vintage vibe. They were trying to do. Like the patient apply for old Grovers. An it was night and day. As well the milk bottle ones were about .5 mm taller on the post. Compared to my old original grovers. An the tulip ones were about .3 m shorter then the original. Which doing a wrap around tailpiece. Seem to give the the Paul a wonderful feel. Perfect break angle at the headstock. I use slinky power strings. As I do a bit of lower tunning from time to time. And with the milk bottle set up and top wrap strings. They play more like a pair of 10-46 strings. So it was the best of both worlds. I guess what I’m getting at. Is I think the tulip model tuners. Are just a bad design all around. Even the fit and finish of the watcher to tuning knobs seem crap. Thou I do preferred tulip look. So I took them off the other Grover tuners. And put them on the milk bottle model. And perfect fit. Also. The milk bottle ones. Are 18 : 1 ratio. An the tulip and kidney bean ones are 14 : 1. So you can really dial in the tuning. Now they make even more of the grovers models in 18 : 1. But I will stand behind the milk bottle models. It’s just small difference. But they really seem to make all the difference in the world to me. As well it gives my Paul a more 1958 vintage look. No one can see it but me. But again. It’s the little things. As for acoustic guitar. I swear by gotho delta 510 tuners. 21 : 1 ratio. And have a cool color cosmic black. Might up grade to that one day on the Paul. But just like the original look of it now to bit the bullet. As well the damn gotho ones are not cheap at all. Hope this all makes since. And like I said. It’s just my opinion. Use what you like my friend and enjoy. As long as your in tune. And rocking it should never matter the brand just the solos. Haha. Cheers.

[@troyzerogee3115]

I just stumbled across your video but after watching I went and checked out mine just to make sure. They’ve always worked flawlessly and after a good inspection they still do haven’t had none of these issues I don’t know what 100 quid is but in the states there around 50 bucks.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

100 quid is £100 GBP or in US currency equivalent $130 :)

[@PaulSter]

I JUST installed a set of minis on my Ibanez and they are brilliant. Tight, precise, and look and lock great. Sorry you're having that problem with yours. All that said, my first choice is the thumbwheel style.

[@robertgarland805]

What is the gear rato. The lockers I got are 18 to 1 and not 13 to 1.

[@PaulSter]

@@robertgarland805 yes- mine are 18-1 too. Definitely better for such a short-scale guitar. EDIT: Whatever the case, I should qualify my answer (old post I know!). I got one of those little Ibanez Mikro guitars just for fun. I added the Grover minis hoping they would help the already poor tuning stability and it improved dramatically. I guess I got a good batch of Grovers. Then again, my 2019 Les Paul's Grovers are fine too. It's just a bad deal when companies outsource to a new company and QC goes out the door. Sounds like might have happened. Hope the issue has been solved.

[@nealdew71]

Yet I've heard the kidney style Grovers on trad pros need replaced with Grover locking tuners. Mine work well & they staying

[@deangtrs]

I have Grovers on all of my guitars and I’ve never had an issue.

[@numanuma20]

I had to return my 100w Boss Katana with the foot pedal and exchange it for one in a box with the foot pedal because they couldn’t sell me a demo. I don’t mind that because I’ve had crappy experiences with demo gear. Anyways, thanks for the heads up, I will throw those off my list for my PRS Custom 24 and find different ones since I hear the tuners that come with them suck.

[@DavidHunterChunkyRiffs]

I had the same problem with some Sperzel tuners years ago.I get my tuners from Axetec now and have never had a problem. And the bonus is they cost a 1/4 of the price.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Great, get mine from there too, I use the locking ones :)

[@j3xh]

just bought some 102 series ‘locking’ grover tuners and ive already broken 2 strings when i tried to string it the way they instructed, gonna waste all this money for nothing

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

this is bad news, hate it when companies make duff gear, send them back hopefully they will replace them.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Just to let you know I will be doing another video very soon about Irongear Pickups, if you want to hear how a Blues Engine and a Dirty Torque pickups sound recorded you can check out my band channel here, be good to get your feedback and comments, regards Dave Barlow kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKjFh4uZnbJqf5o

[@MrBobguitar4]

When I got my L. P. my first impulse was to swap the Kluson tuners for Grovers. After I set it up the guitar stayed in tune wonderfully with the Klusons, even with all my crazy bending so I kept them. I setup an Epiphone yesterday that had Grovers and they were good as expected. But for you to get 2 sets that were both sub par ? Possibly something in the manufacturing/Q.C. process must have changed recently.

[@bdub0983]

it's absolutely the guitar shops fault for selling you counterfeit tuners. they should be buying their products from reputable dealers. not amazon or whatever

[@garyeckel1656]

I think your right, I got a set on Ebay, didnt notice they suck till later ..wonder if Grover knows, PW 2, PW 1, also a 1 PW markings.

[@robertgarland805]

@@garyeckel1656 sweetwater music. If you don't like them they will refund them. I got Grover lockers. $74 inc. Tax. Free shipping.

[@bobsullivan5714]

I'm talking shit here because I HAVE NO first hand knowledge of this, but I have read that there are counterfeit Grovers on the market. Examine the actual "Grover" name on the tuner. You are looking for a quality càsting with clearly defined edges. The fakes have more rounded casting edges. Is this true? I don't know but it seemed plausible when I read it.... In my opinion, any vender in the retail business should be alert to the issues of counterfeiting and professionally responsible for the veracity of their products. THEIR REPUTATION DEPENDS ON IT.

[@Mmoran64]

I have the grovers 102 series in my guitar there is no play in them

[@garrynathan8478]

Hi Dave, I am very sorry to hear about your hardship,misfortune and frustration, I truly sympathise. I have a set of I believe Grover 102 18 to 1 on an Epiphone Wildkat stock and they appear perfect, but I was contemplating upgrading to a set of Grover 106c locking tuners, like you I live in UK, but in doubt now? I do not want to go through the poor service and hell you went through ? Does anyone know a reputable, good, genuine Grover agent in UK please ? That sell genuine Grover tuners. Many thanks.

[@bloke2201]

You're right. I recently got a Gibson G-45 acoustic. Fantastic guitar! Gorgeous, loud, lively, woody tone, best neck I've ever put my hands on, absolutely flawless except for one thing: the mini-grovers. They are, as you say, CRAP! Pure Crap! Never thought I would say the words "Grover" and "crap" in the same sentence, but these are the times we're living in. The Grover people have joined so many other companies with a reputation for excellence, in showing absolute contempt for their customers. They are selling us shit that doesn't work right, for a price that only excellence would justify.

[@wastingtime]

I've had the same problem with an original set, bought a used guitar and hated the inconsistent feel of them, they dont stay in tune well either...I was going to do a direct replacement and opted to go with Gotoh which are on 2 of my other guitars. I have 15 year old taiwanese yamaha with nicer feeling tuners.

[@jjurii]

My firebird came with a set of standard Grover mini Rotomatic tuners. They also felt cheap and poorly made. I replaced them with a set of Grover mini Rotomatic locking tuners 18:1 and the differences were night and day. What we've experienced is outsourced Grover branded junk. It's a shame they'd put their name on those terrible tuners and they're lucky I didn't but another brand for the replacements.

[@jjurii]

www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/106C Take a look at these.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

I have been using locking tuners from ebay (China made) now put a set on my LP and honestly say they are very very good and a quarter the price.

[@MrSneakyPants]

Hipshot tuners are my favorite so far. Gotoh is solid too. Even the PRS stock locking tuners are pretty decent.

[@bobyk87]

i have bought in Germany the grover mini locking, and at first did not notice much difference from ordinary stock squier tuners on my Squier 51. Inspecting carefully I can see many dents on the internal post that locks the strings, which seems like made out of brass which iss too soft. I never used any other locking tuners but i really think these are as good as it could be. I might try something different soon as I can.

[@nicw1826]

Many many years ago I bought a handmade acoustic guitar fitted with some USA-made gold-plated Grover Rotomatics that I'd bought for the project.Absolutely awful.The worm gear kept working its way out of the casing which required CONSTANT detuning and retightening of the button screw.I replaced them with a set of Yamaha clones which were perfect.The casings featured a lip to prevent the worm gear coming out.Simples!.As for Schallers with round backs that detached from the casing--don't get me started!.

[@bassmana2z686]

The locking tuners look like the ones I got from Vanson. Superb !!!

[@jward9637]

I just bought some gotoh tuners for $6.00 on Amazon. I installed them on my “Beater” guitar. The hardest part was finding a drill bit to make the holes in the headstock bigger. Major pain in the arse. The funny part is when I took the old strings off two of the old machine heads actually fell off on the floor!! Final product works great and keeps my guitar in tune nicely.

[@johngault5214]

I bought a set of Grovers to replace the ones on my Yamaha LL16 acoustic and the Grovers had not a patch on the ones already fitted on the Yamaha. A bad choice and waste of money as far as I'm concerned

[@godofthedesecrated7449]

Top shelf should be top shelf every single time, that's what your paying for, set and forget. It would be like buying a Mercedes and having it drive like a Volkswagen, not bad mind you, but not what you paid for. Thanks for sharing Dave and I feel for ya, nothing worse than having your expectations smashed by a legend in any industry. Peace!

[@JACKPAVAL]

I've Never had a problem with Grovers, or Schaller I have however had many problems with Kluson.

[@Punkpsychobilly]

I just stuck a set of Grover’s on my Yamaha LL16. The Yamaha tuners were great, but I wanted a set of 18:1 nickel plated ones instead of the 14:1 gold plated ones that came on the Yamaha. Not crazy about gold. They fit like a glove and so far I’ve liked them a lot. I suspect you got a counterfeit set of them, which may be a lot more common in the U.K. than it is here in the states. I got mine from StewMac.com, they were less than $60 shipped.

[@ZFlyingVLover]

grover probably makes theirs in china too and for less $$$ than the ones you bough for your explorer. Guitar parts manufacturing has become quite sketchy

[@KeeneSound65]

use the traditional Gibson string winding method. its free, and works.

[@Booze4Blues]

I had the same with the keystone type, and returned them for an exchange, which my supplier did swiftly with the recommendation of the button type Rotomatics. Their knowledge being that the keystone are 💩 Now I have a genuine stable set that do not drift , plus the nickel is slowly aging nicely. “Grover Rotomatic 102-18” 👌🏻

[@patrickpalmer3374]

I played 130+ for mine 10 yrs ago with an adjusting screw still perfect took them off l.p. put them on a new 200S silent guitar had to drill but whatever the string post is solid not like the rattle of the cheap ones. Tuners make a difference in sound clarity sorry that they gave you the pirates bust their jaw.

[@festushaggen2563]

I just went through the search for locking tuners for my Les Paul. It seems like Grovers are hit or miss. From what I saw, Schaller, Kluson and Gotoh have the best reputations. I went with the Kluson Revolution Locking Tuners. Hope you found something that works.

[@talkychris]

Gotoh tuners are brilliant in my experience.

[@matthewbolduc2714]

I would expect that you would dig the Roto Grip Rotomatics. Probably the flagship tuners of the Grover company. Priced about the same as other premium locking tuners. But there are other levels of Grover tuners like the 406 auto locking type, the nonlocking 305, and a lot more choices from Grover. Grover even makes many specialty fitment tuners for odd screw patterns. Even very cool thumbwheel type 'vintage' locking tuners, for upgrading those stiff old vintage tuners presumably. They look like a good choice.

[@garyzalud2658]

Never had a problem with Grover ...used them for twenty years on multiple guitars.

[@somebodyelseuk]

I've an Epiphone here, Grovers, feel fine, work fine. I've had Wilkinsons which were crap. I bought a set of Schallers back in the '80s, when they were made in West Germany, that were utter garbage. Only brand that have been consistently good for me have been Sperzels.

[@mikga45]

I have a baton rouge i paid 400 dollars for. Dont know what tuners are on it. Dame issue you have the gears on the tunrr peg is terrible. Im looking for replacement and have not found any. Have a tagima telecaster tw55 and the tuners on that are as smooth as silk. Pick up the acoustic and the tuners are crap.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Vanson tuners :)

[@tuco8734]

Sorry to hear that . Like your daughter , I have an Epiphone with Grover tuners and they are awesome . Sounds like this store got a batch of bad ones . Hope all turned out well for you .

[@2000SkyView]

Keep packaging, that is BS! Great video, thanks. Price is not everything!!! It is a shame!

[@formallynamed85]

My schecter came with grovers granted they are now 15 years old and I was uninformed on lots of things lol but out of the six grovers two have been troublesome as far as the button shaft pulling out but worse than an old tuner breaking is the actual string post before you start to tighten up your strings give about any cast made tuners string post a little shake or wobble test and that’s a unknown issue with tuners that nobody ever even talks about lol

[@fredsavina4965]

That's what happened to mine, the string post broke as I was tuning it. Felt like it exploded in my hands, string went flying....

[@jakehahn2457]

Agreed

[@kenr.b.891]

Over the years I bought a few sets of Chinese no name tuners, and they were all crap, with tones of play. I assume the fake Grovers are the same way. As for you having issues with the real Grovers, Ive never had a problem with them, and it is making me wonder if the fake Grovers got mixed in the distribution networks with the real Grovers.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

I have Vansons on my guitars and they are just as good, I do about 90 gigs a year and they hold up fine.

[@GretschProf]

Unfortunately, I've had similar experiences with not only Grovers, but several other reputable makers as well. I recently bought 6 sets of manually locking tuners (with the locking wheel) and not only do some have play in the gears, but the string posts are of a different length than the originals. Yes, I bought replacements of the same type and manufacturer (there were 3 different manufacturers). It's nice to have the 18:1 or 21:1 locking tuners, but not at the expense of poor operation. Some of my new purchases are fine, some are not. I didn't notice any correlation between where they were made and their quality, just bad quality control.

[@ScottANovak]

In '73 I put a set of Rotomatics on my '72 ES-335 & they worked great & they are still working great. However, I've heard other people complaining about the quality of new Grovers. Granted, they should work properly right out of the box. But there was a guy on a guitar forum that was claiming that most of the play could be dealt with by carefully adjusting the washer thicknesses inside. I think that he also claimed that a wavy washer was on the wrong side of the tuning shaft to work properly. So you maybe able to tweak the tuners to get them working correctly. I'm planning to upgrade to locking tuners, but I probably won't buy Grovers.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Yes I did tweak mine but the issue is with the tulip heads, the fit is not snug, this is where the play is, so only option was grease and tighten the tuner heads down more. But at the end of the day still disappointed as they are suppost to be a quality product, in the end I purchased a set of Vanson tuners on eBay at third of the price and they are brilliant.

[@ScottANovak]

@@DaveBarlowGuitar , I don't mind paying the extra money if I'm actually receiving a premium quality product. I also don't believe that the die cast zinc, that Rotomatics and other tuners are made from, transfers sound as well as a hard aluminum alloy. For this reason I may try the aluminum bodied Sperzels. I think I'll record before and after to see whether the Sperzels sound better or worse than the Rotomatics.

[@Quinkermarine]

Interesting! Great story and well told :) Yea, it's also interesting to note that a lot of cheap guitars these days come with the same Grovers on them and you think 'Oh, Grover tuners, must be a nice axe.' They've done a good marketing job on the strength of the good tuners they made. My Epiphone WildKat had some on and they weren't too flash either. Probably just a bad batch of a few hundred sets...don't forget it happens with guitars too, we've all played crap Strats, Teles and Les Pauls.

[@numanuma20]

David Roupell I am getting a PRS SE custom 24 and replacing the tuners that come with them as a heard the standard tuners suck on them. Now I know to stay away from them.

[@henry66699]

You are rightly irritated and still deliver this problem with humor....fantastic video....The shop is responsible and should have just gave you back the money and you should have gone to a different dealer. Because your daughter had good Grover tuners. So obviously you have gotten counterfeit ones. A good shop would say, we will install the right ones and you only pay if you are convinced the new ones are proper Grovers.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Thanks 👍

[@DereliktProductions]

Agree. Bought a les Paul that came with the same grovers, and I’m not impressed. They don’t hold tune very well and the feel cheap.

[@puctbridge]

Mine don't feel notchy but some have more resistance when turning the key and some feel loose and less resistant! Shouldn't they all be about the same amount of resistance? Mine came to me free because a buddy bought a Taylor and wanted those beautiful Waverly tuners instead of the grovers it came with. This was a guitar he bought new! Why the heck are the tuners he pulled off of it like this? Do Grovers really suck?

[@brianhenderlong6186]

That little dead spot maybe natural in grovers. My Dean ML 1981 Brazilian burst with stock Grovers has a bit of that. I think Sperzels are the best. Gothoh is also very good. I double checked a Gibson Les paul Custom 68 reissue & sure thing some play in the going from up to down with Grovers. I think you are on to something!!

[@ionhunter]

Bougas parts in the Aviation field has been plaguing us here in the USA for over 30 years. Most of the parts at that time came from China and Russa. Sometimes the only way we could tell is, by the way printing on the package was done, because they used a different machine.

[@FretFriendGWaL]

I recommend Gotoh tuners. Locking (Magnum) if you can afford them or regular if not. I love Gotoh gear and recommend them over Grover to my clients. It is the fault of the shop btw (they should check them)... PS: Where did you get those locking ones on the Explorer? They look like Vanson's...

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

I purchased them from axetec.co.uk but I think they are Vansons. Got some on my les paul as well, they work great.

[@FretFriendGWaL]

Yeah I know Axetec. Never had a problem with anything I ordered from them before but I buy tuners etc on eBay. Gotoh's are the ones buddy. Even my Gibson-owner clients are buying Gotoh's at my recommendation. That said, the Grovers on my recently bought Epiphone SG are fabulous! Your channel rocks btw...

[@cesarccoronel1156]

Fret Friend which model of Epiphone SG do you have? I am looking for a decent epi SG

[@bfiume]

Thanks for the warning!!

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Any time!

[@DCWelker]

weird. The grover tuners on my Schecter feel amazing. I am so sorry you got a couple of crap sets man.

[@marcoruorio5846]

I have grovers that came as stock on a gibson midnight, i totally agree, they are very bad, there is a slack in the movement, ordered shallers, let's see how it rolls out

[@T0n3zon3]

That's a sad story. I bought Grovers back in the 1980's and they were superb, I fitted them to all my guitars. Maybe they are now cutting corners and costs but definitely not passing them on to the end user!

[@robertsantana5245]

The grover’s i have on my acoustic 12 string are excellent! They came originally on my Schecter when i bought it🤣

[@jward9637]

I need some new tuners. How do I tell if they’re real or fake when I buy them? The Grover’s cost to much anyway. Fender tuners are made in China too.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

I'm sure there is a video somewhere on that subject.

[@johnp1657]

Hi Dave, I have a set of Vanson Grover Tuners on my Les Paul that cost about £25 and they are great, smooth action and they stay in tune. Also a big thumbs up for the Smooth Hound Wireless System, goodbye to cables after 30 something years lol

[@precisionbrown6829]

Wait you have a question? My grovers have absolutely no play in them. Maybe some do after using them for awhile. I've had mine, which came with my les Paul standard, and I play a lot, have no play like you show, at all. No wiggle, nada, nothing. Maybe they're a bit old or dropped a few times. Who knows? Put new ones on. I really hope you got a decent deal on it.

[@redlycan23]

I just bought some milk bottle rotomatics for my Orangewood Manhattan and they screwholes are in different places so I'm going to have to send them back unfortunately

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

make new screw holes

[@MrStevie777]

I watched the full video and you never said if the guitar stayed in tune with them on. or maybe you did and i missed it. ? I agree with you though. For £100 you would expect the machine head to be smooth and tight. Do you know which model they were 102, 502, etc etc?

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

They did stay in tune fine.

[@aquinojose94]

I had Grovers on a cheap guitar and a Gibson Les Paul, and I don’t like them at all. I like Schaler locking tuners

[@seamanjive]

Exact same problem here. Bought two sets Grovers a couple of years ago, one gold one chrome. Gold set on Greco LP Custom, chrome on replica LP Standard. Both rubbish. Greco now has its original 36 year old tuners back on, no probs, plays better than my 2000 USA LP Std. Replica LP is gonna get a set of Grovers from a Dean Avalanche I picked up in CashConverters for 35 quid. Real Grovers. Let's see... More soon.

[@liamjh81]

I have Grovers on my Brian May and they are awful for staying in tune

[@tja3542]

You bought them from a company with an extremely effective marketing machine. Yes I love their vids too. However shifting boxes is not the same as giving customer service which doesn't sound like they did in your case. I have just put some great Wilkinsons on my nearly new LTD ec256 to replace the rubbish originally fitted. £25 and work well. I'm going to try some from Iron Gear v soon as they have great reputation for price vs quality. It's quite a challenge separating good value from cheap crap so we either take a risk on amazon or ebay or build a relationship with a dealer who we trust and MAYBE pay slightly more. I think Iron Gear will be getting lots more of my business in future because of the information (proper diagrams etc.) price / quality / trust factors. Just my thoughts.

[@adamdavey2084]

Wilkinsons are excellent for the money, I have a set of ez lok tuners from Wilkinson on my Baldwin Les Paul junior and they're about 1000 times more stable than the stock ones. They're also a higher gearing ratio than grovers so you get finer tuning.

[@Claudialx]

Just go on and buy some Vinson tuners, then let me know your opinion Dave.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

You mean Vanson Tuners, yes I have them on most of my guitars including the Les Paul now

[@SArthur221]

i never quite understood the relevance of having grover tuners... as long as they turn consistently and dont unwind by themselves, whats the point of changing tuners? (except, of course, changing to locking tuners, but even then it is entirely possible to faux lock normal tuners)

[@catdumpling]

It used to be that the "no-name" cheap tuners that were available were absolutely shit. The only option was spend a lot on a name brand, or suffer with awful tuners. Things have changed _quite_ a bit over the past 20 years or so, and now there are loads of budget tuners that actually work great. In fact, a lot of them are made in the same factories as some of the "big names", but they're cheaper simply because you're not paying for a name or fancy packaging. It's not to say that all cheap tuners are good (there's still a lot of crap out there), but by and large they're pretty well-made. Conversely, it's no longer true that the best tuners are _only_ made in the US or Germany: as far as I know Hipshot's locking tuner components are manufactured overseas and then assembled in the US, and those are some of my current favorites. Even Suhr uses them (they have the Suhr logo but John Suhr himself has said they're HIpshots, just custom-logo'd for them.) I think part of the "mystique" of Grovers is that, for a _long_ time, they were one of the few quality aftermarket brands available. A lot of people fawn over vintage Klusons (for some reason), even though they actually weren't very good tuners...they were just the only thing available in the quantities that brands like Fender and Gibson needed. Grover became the go-to for replacements because they were better and there wasn't really much else anyway, at least until Schaller came along (but those have always been expensive, at least here in the US.) The thing is, Grover hasn't made their tuners in the US since the early 80's, and oddly enough the Asian-made ones are _better_ than the US-made ones from the 70's. These days Grovers are made in the same factory as a lot of other brands, "famous" and not, but _usually_ they're fine. Almost every relatively modern set of Grovers I've come across (or owned myself) have been fine, but I don't doubt that Dave got a couple bad sets of tuners. I _have_ absolutely seen counterfeit Grovers for sale on various websites though, so it's very much a possibility that he ended up with those somehow (whether that was some shadiness on the part of the distributor or not, I have not idea.) Most of the counterfeit Grovers I've seen have been pretty obvious (bad castings with indistinct lettering, sloppiness, cheap-looking plating, etc.), but some look pretty damn authentic. If it were me I'd almost be inclined to get in touch with the distributor and give them a piece of my mind, but that may not be reasonable. I have to admit that I'm kinda surprised at how expensive Grovers are in the UK. In the US they fall pretty squarely into the "mid range" category, and most sets only cost between $35-$50! If I may make a suggestion, have a look at Gotoh tuners: their hardware is high quality, made in Japan and still pretty affordable. I think they have the best price-to-quality ratio when it comes to guitar hardware in general and I recommend them all the time. I even like their licensed Floyd better than the current OFRs, because it seems like Schaller has been having some QC and consistency issues over the past few years and the Gotoh trem is made just as nice for less than half the cost!

[@jackoshaw]

Maybe they had a bad run of parts? Good video. Food for thought... I have a set of Grovers on an old Melody Maker, I installed about 30 years ago and they are still great.... Been shopping around for some new machine head tuners for and old acoustic I have. I am still up in the air on what to buy....... I wanted some Locking tuners for it.... I got a set Fender Locking Tuners for my Tele and love them, but the old acoustic is 3 X 3.. instead of in line 6. We'll see.... Thanks again for the insight on the Grovers.............. One more thing...... I installed some Klusons on an old 1950's Kay Archtop , and they were the same way... They Had some slop in them... I left them on, anyway... Klusons were the "Go-To" tuners for these old arch tops, but I think they lost a little quality along the way....Here is the video of the Guitar I want to install the Grovers on..... This is a Johnson Guitar... I cannot believe the tones and playability I get out of this guitar.... It has even been mistaken for a Martin a time or two!....kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWbGmpiJhMeEbpo

[@adamx9987]

Thanks for being honest brother! Rock on! Love from the USA!

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Always!

[@ericstandefer9138]

Grover's should have a lifetime warranty, to have the package is nonsense.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

yes I agree, live and learn, never buying grovers again.

[@BengtNordsten]

I started seeing fake Rotomatics a dozen years ago. I am a huge fan of Grover tuners, but I'd be wary about buying a new set, especially if not from a major reliable retailer. As Barlow says, if you need a good solid reliable set, you might be better off with well-made generics at a fraction the price. I bought a used guitar with branded Jinho copies of the full-size Roto 102, and they are as solid and reliable as Grovers. With that said, you might wonder why I still stand with Grovers. Fifteen years ago, I bought a nice old Epiphone Strat, that arrived with Rotomatics (the mid-size 305). Four of them were shot to hell: one broken post, one bound up solid, two missing the backs. I contacted Grotro, to ask if their Lifetime Guarantee is still in effect. A quick email response was wary, and said they'd like to take a look at them, so I dropped them in a mailer -- figuring I'd never hear about them again, but they were trash anyway. A few weeks later, a new set of Rotomatics showed up in the mailbox. My cost: five bucks for the envelope and postage. 🙂

[@zvonimirsarcevic7928]

I have on 2 guitar Grover tuners, and on one cheaper tuners that looks like grover, but its written "golden", and none of those are sticky, even the "fake" ones...

[@chengliu872]

I have Grover tuners on 3 of my guitars and they have been fine.

[@jamesday3389]

Cheng Liu I'm looking to buy new tuners. Do they have to be the same size?

[@chengliu872]

I believe that as long as they are similar in form, it should be fine.

[@jamesday3389]

Bitchen. Thanks!!

[@GuitaristGuyJames]

I had the same problem...

[@brianknickerbocker8518]

C'mon Dave, tell us how you really feel.Love your video's.I am getting ready to change over to locking tuners on three guitars and very happy you had this video.Very helpful.

[@JammyGit]

I've made 2 teles of my own and bought some wilkinsons from Vanson Guitars, a shop on ebay. I'm sure they cost around £15 a set, 6 inline, i also replaced the stock tuners on my epiphone j200 which were awful, with the same but 3+3s and i can honestly say they're better than the grovers on my dean les paul, in fact they're better than any tuner i've ever used. Vanson are worth a look on ebay and Ben is a really nice bloke mate.

[@johnp1657]

yep I have bought Vanson Tuners and they are great, god quality and stay in tune

[@rowlandstraylight]

Just put Sperzel locking tuners on my latest build and they are really good. Better than anything I've worked on or owned before. You only benefit from locking tuners during playing if you have a non-locking trem and use it, so with a Wilkinson two-point bridge set up to float, they're transformative. Unless you really want the time saving aspect of locking tuners during string changes, regular tuners from a reliable manufacturer should be adequate. I'm keen to try high end Gotoh tuners, as the not particularly fancy ones on *Japanese* made Ibanez guitars are some of the better standard tuners I've seen on a guitar in the same kind of price range as an American fender or a not cripplingly expensive Gibson The vendor is legally responsible for the quality of their goods. If it doesn't meet expectations, is not fit for purpose or is defective, the shop is responsible. The shop will likely lean on their distributor to avoid using money. It's the same story with sports equipment and motorcycle safety gear, where the store says they will 'help' you by leaning on their supplier. The store must repair or replace within a reasonable time and if they cannot do that you are entitled to a refund. And the shop's policy, which they will point at does not override the law, and if their policy is used to cheat you of your consumer rights they will get torn a new one by trading standards.

[@onebad78ta]

you must have just got some duds,,,because mine are perfect and I have them on a SG custom,and 2 LPs.

[@BadMotivator66]

love the vids dave, keep at it! :)

[@matijatatomirovic3351]

I have exactly same problem with ''Grovers'' on my chibson ESP knockoff. Can you post the link of those chinese tuners?

[@haybob2527]

Thank,s for the warning Dave,I was going to buy a set of grover,s.....

[@robertgarland805]

Check Sweetwater music. I got mine 2 weeks ago. Lockers with gear rato 18 to 1. Excellent. Check package color.Red with plastic cover.

[@masterofzero7105]

Sounds like grovers are also sub in out to a Chinese company...thinking they can buy cheep and sell high just because of the name... A Good name can be destroyed very quickly...after you going threw 2 of them...i won't take the chance...Thanks for the upload 😎🎼👍

[@BenJohnson2016]

I call this "Cashing out Brand Equity". Pioneer did this with stereos in the 80's. Pioneer was top-quality stuff in the 70's. In the early 80's they began selling Jensen quality internals made in China at the old U.S.-made prices. With no internet back then, it took customers 3 or 4 years to catch on. I guess 3 years of high profits were worth destroying their legendary brand for the next 20.

[@InnerLeaf]

you chose the wrong Grovers. I have the same which lasted a year and then gave up. You should try another model of Grovers like the ones put on Taylor Guitars or Gibson J 160e

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

Dead right Umer

[@tomcatt9875]

thank you Dave !

[@steveg7368]

Hi Dave, this is an old vid, but timely as Iv'e just found it. I'm looking at which locking tuners to upgrade my LP with and Grover were top of my list. Not now !!! Which brand would you recommend instead ? Dave Hunter below reckons Axetec ???? See you have them noted here too.

[@DaveBarlowGuitar]

yes Axetec or Vansons

[@steveg7368]

Think I'll go with axetec, cheers Dave.

[@KellanMeigh]

Your Grovers were most likely knock-offs and at 100 Quid, you paid almost 4X the price the real ones can be had for in the US. I have four sets, all from different eras that work just fine. An Agile 3010SE and a Dean Thoroughbred Deluxe, full size Grovers on them. A Dean Boca 12, (so that's two sets, essentially) with Grover Mini-tuners and my beloved Matsumoku/Orlando 335 copy that has the mid-size Grovers. All function flawlessly. What you described in their function sounds like cheap copies of real Grovers.

[@henryhartley9993]

hiya Dave, you can't beat a good rant! one set of dodgy tuners is bad, two sets is not acceptable for that kind of money! Wilkinson tuners are great value