Can Defensive Tanks ONLY Hold FRANCE?

[@FeedbackGaming]

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[@LordEmperorHyperion]

When will you play the wonderful world of Kaiserredux?? @DaveFeedBackGaming

[@death-istic9586]

Love your videos!💚

[@C.A._Old]

If France had done this in World War II, who knows if France would have fallen within a month.

[@PulkUlanow]

'Sorry Belgium, we won't defend you... Just like WW2!' *Them surrendering and the Ardennes operation impact comes from them DEFENDING BELGIUM with their main army*

[@wakpuissant5780]

In the reality France send almost all his army in belgium and is liké this we get the Ardennes and the encerclement Dunkerque

[@willywonka6487]

I enjoy feedbackgaming but I do wish he had atleast a slight knowledge of ww2 ya

[@RazorsharpLT]

Not to mention him saying "we're doing very well" when he literally lost as much territory as France did by then in June. In reality - his last "Defence line" was where France capitulated.

[@LUFC273]

@@RazorsharpLT You clearly diddnt watch the whole video, hes losing ground but the Germans are losing all the equipment and then suddenly you attack and they cant defend with no equipment

[@michaziemski2492]

@LUFC273 yeah, but if democratic governments had a similar impact on war-exhaustion as irl, France would have capitulated by that time. It's actually way more effective to recreate the Dyle plan (defend in Belgium) or to draw a fallback line across rivers and forests north of Paris. People setlle for the Franco-Belgian border because of the forts while ignoring that this is good tank country and easy to break out.

[@SonoVAo]

About being the ‘Victors of the Great War’ the modifier is to represent the nations being complacent with their military and also the public rallying behind not having another massive conflict.

[@larrylobster9896]

Adding on to this, this is a recognized 'syndrome' of history, "victory disease", a complacency after military victory and hesitancy to change or adapt. believing that after a string of victories that you can't possibly lose, no matter what. It's been a constant theme in every part of history from ancient Persia and Greece to the 100 Years War to the Napoleon, the American Civil War and the Indian Wars, and especially pretty much the everyone in the Axis for the first half of WW2 when they caught the Allies pretty much with their pants down. Just think of being a Japanese admiral after Pearl Harbor and the battle of the Java Sea, or the Germans after you've blitkzkrieged Poland, destroyed the BEF at Dunkirk, and captured or killed more than a million Soviets at Kiev and Bialystok.

[@HowlingWolf518]

@@larrylobster9896 Addition: Japanese victory disease goes all the way back to 1905 when they TKO'ed the entire Russian navy and convinced them to sue for peace. The entire IJN strategy in WW2 was based around forcing the Allies into a second Tsushima.

[@jaredjosephsongheng372]

​@@HowlingWolf518 Im fairly certain the Japanese would've been able to do a second Tsushima. They just absolutely FUMBLED it at Midway. If they hadn't fumbled so hard at Midway the Japanese would've been able to secure the Philippines, Midway, Guadalcanal and all islands that they conquered in Asia since America was still busy dealing with Germany.

[@HowlingWolf518]

@@jaredjosephsongheng372 Thing about Midway is that even if the IJN won, they were running out of oil and other strategic resources... and they'd soon be up against 24 Essex-class carriers. All they had to do was lose _once_ and it'd be game over. "I can run wild for six months... after that, I have no expectation of success" - Yamamoto Isoroku

[@jaredjosephsongheng372]

@@HowlingWolf518 They might be running out of oil but as long as they have planes to bombard the West coast of the United States they should end up going to the table for peace talks since they didn't know that the Japanese were already running out of oil. Just the constant bombing of the West Coast and Hawaii (if they hadn't taken it after Midway) for like 2-3 days straight will make the Americans think that the Japanese War Machine is far more powerful than they expected causing them to sue for peace. I mean we don't know for sure as well. But remember it's just a THEORY-

[@Mohenti]

I think you forgot "static warfare" which gives another 10% to entrechment. You can also get the "Skirmisher" trait, which grants the ability "Probing attack" - an attack with a bonus from entrenchment. UPDATE: nope, "Probing attack" doesn't work as i thought. It doesn't give bonuses (attack or breakthrough) from entrenchment, so it's useful mostly to pin.

[@Acksn]

Probing attack just makes it so you don't lose your entrenchment bonus when you attack at the cost of an attack malus.

[@andromidius]

@@Acksn Yeah, its still useful for dealing a bit of damage or pinning units during a counter-attack (or slowing down reinforcements moving through a bottleneck).

[@Mohenti]

@@Acksnyou can get +75% from experience and +70-80% from entrenchment when "Probing attack" only reduces damage by 20%. Generally speaking, this is a very easy way to destroy AI troops.

[@RazorsharpLT]

Yeah, i was like... wtf? why not static defense? Also his history is absolutely atrocious for someone playing HOI4

[@Acksn]

Anglos love to rewrite history so they lose track @@RazorsharpLT

[@resdix2997]

Technically the two French political branches are not historical due to the fact that the popular front only lasted 2 years, from June 1936 to April 1938, it was replaced by the radical party of Edouard Daladier, the president of France during this period was Albert Lebrun who took a dim view of the left. It is the Road to 56 mode which has the most "historical" tree on French politics of that era.

[@michaziemski2492]

True, true. I'm reading extensively on the 1930s history of France and a France rework would actuallu require some kind of BoP mechanism where you can pivot out of a government crisis into a different political party - similar to Finland. The options for aiding the Spanish Republicans are also direly ahistorical. Intervention should actually decrease war support and antagonize UK, making it impossible to join the allies for as long as you're supporting Spain.

[@nevets2371]

Fair enough, but for gameplay purposes, if you want to to a "historical" France playthrough, I think disjointed government goes well enough to cover that, It'd be hard to do it complete justice. And to be fair, when I first played rt56 and saw what they did with France I was a little horrified, which I believe would have been the correct response to have for anyone who saw the state of late 1930s French politics.

[@acsimark]

Hi Dave, 30 def / light tank is easly achiveable! fixed superstrukcure, howitzer, radio 3 extra ammo, torsion + diesel +max armor tiks. make a redo with spg max defense, as you would get fixed superstrucure which gives defense, and dont forget to upgrade radio. WIth SPG(possibly heavy) you will fast deorg them (armor+soft more hardness) and you will have time to do entrenchment again. Also there is an entrenchment advisor , and trickster get faster entrenchment aswell as spirits help as well. From the speicel force doctrines you could also get some defense or extra arty dmd recon(ranger). Flame tanks give also great stats at forts and dozer blade. Most important commando general with camoflage CAS dmg reduction, and advisor for even lower cas damage. You can hold easly with the mentioned above.

[@milkmoemoe]

"It's kind of a tractor... no, it is a tractor. That's what it is. Say what it is, call it what it is" -Germany manufacturing companies, 1933

[@leetnor4887]

I literally did this tank build yesterday, the problem was the British joined the axis when I went to avenge the Waterloo as Napoleon 🤣

[@normall9320]

non hist moment

[@CosyGrave]

These ai images are pretty terrible ngl

[@legitplayin6977]

I mean it’s ai, idk what did you expect

[@Nike-nm8jc]

Ai images have that "minimum possible effort" vibe.

[@FeedbackGaming]

You don't like the hellokitty tank? Dam impossible to impress ;)

[@ariashow4088]

I can never learn that if the word "terrible" is the good one or the bad one

[@jacksonidontwhatyoutoknowm9480]

@@ariashow4088I don’t think the definition is one way or the other, it can be used both ways but the connotation is negative

[@kibecawest9867]

My guy sounds genuinely exhausted to the point of just going through the motions. I get that this is his job and he wants to put out high quality videos. But I am concerned since it sounds like he is so tired he could wind up falling asleep at the wheel or something.

[@fromant65]

I mean he's playing france

[@willywonka6487]

went pretty well actually considering you forgot spies and deliberately avoided forts

[@chusnacho4447]

15:55 The difference in df is irrelevant for the case at hand tho. Since the sum of all the enemy attack is lower than the 899df of the "softests" defending division.

[@alix0788]

Explain more pls

[@Nexsyana]

​@@alix0788 So basically because of how combat works, attack is "tested" versus enemy defence. A unit does a specific number of attacks each combat round and it's tested to see if they can "go through" the defence of the opponent. Which basically means that any extra "defence" above the attack value you are fighting against, is wasted because the enemy has already ran out of attack

[@alix0788]

@@Nexsyana what about breakthrough?and Will the defence of the defending units add up as the attack of the attacking units? Will having more attack de-org and de-entrench of the defending units faster?

[@Nexsyana]

@@alix0788 Breakthrough is literally just "defence while on the attack" I don't seem to understand your question, if you are talking about the attack "spread" between units because of Initiative and Coordination. No every unit has its own defence and they don't spread them(that's why encircled units melt so fast, their defence doesn't stack and it gets penalised on top). If you have more attack than the enemy has defence yes, because those are considered "undefended attacks" ALL attacks to hp and org damage, but attacks that do not go through the enemy defence are much much weaker. Undefended attacks de-org enemies much faster yes. AFAIK entrenchment is never lost during combat

[@alix0788]

@@Nexsyana wow really, i have like 1300 hrs in the game and some of what are you saying is completely new to me, thank you

[@gallici-anima-christiana]

By the way historical France rushed for the defense of Belgium and the Netherlands to extend the front and not repeat the slow grind of WW1 (so they wouldn't extend Maginot, they'd try to get Belgium into an alliance, or military access at least) to keep the destruction away from France basically, which is how the Ardennes and Dunkirk happened... Frontlines were too overstreched to reinforce, Ardennes were still defended (they thought they would have time to send reinforcements). But Belgium wouldn't let the allies into Belgium before they got attacked, which lead to the rush for Rotterdam (which made the Ardennes open). They also tried to ally with Mussolini, but Chamberlain wouldn't give territorial concessions to Italy (alternative history could be to form the Stresa front). And the reason they couldn't rearm and did so late is because of the debt contracted to the US during WW1, which had to be forgotten after WW2, since Wilson didn't want Germany to pay war reparations and since he couldn't get the US congress to sign the Versailles treaty (didn't want to himself at first), which lead to WW2 breaking out so the US did the classy thing and owned it, to make themselves forgiven in a way during the cold war. France's historical war plans were to create two frontlines for Germany by allying with Italy and to set up defenses in Belgium. Which well all went to shit. They also focused heavily on fighters production, produced 1000 brand new fighters in 1939, but they kinda just ran out of pilots more than airplanes. There's a lot of other funny historical details but not relevant for HOI4 gameplay.

[@MrHodoAstartes]

Had you fortified the extended Maginot further and built into static AA, you could likely have greatly hastened the speed at which the Germans were worn down. With the static defense strategy you only had to put AA in a few areas, too.

[@themastamanhd4861]

static AA only effects strat bombers and logistic strikes, not CAS sadly

[@emp2355]

How is this tanks only? You are essentially just using a space marine build with additional tanks.

[@Miszorinho]

My ocd loses it everytime I see lal those ships cancelled

[@connorcampbell3253]

your lines might have broken because you have red air and they might have been bombing your forts

[@FeedbackGaming]

Constant attacks eventually break organisation for a few divisions causing them to lose all entrenchment. You can't build more entrenchment wile under attack. So slowly overtime they make holes in the front

[@bigleady]

@@FeedbackGaming its always that region too, the ai under enforces it and it has too many attack directions

[@ligmagaming6939]

I love how the ai images not only look terrible, but also add nothing to the video

[@VanWinger]

7:23 Choosing the Laffly TCC as the early defense tank so much reminded me of the World War II Online Battleground Europe experience I had many years ago.

[@Xeem_Pad]

7:20 I think you saw Excel research on reliability a year or two ago. So 85% reliability for a cheap 7.5 ic tank isn't worth it

[@Adstral]

23:00 the morale boost the men probably felt after being saved.

[@walnzell9328]

23:58 Poor General Tellera looks like he's about to break down and cry.

[@thatrandomguyontheinternet2477]

So the main point of 'victors of the great war' for France atleast is that : Hon hon le maginot protege notre, we are invincible.. what do you mean radios ? Oh, i think horse riders with messages is good enough to coordination... oh just let François drink his booze it's not like Germany would invade us

[@atomicLord97]

France is one of my top 3 favorite nations to play, my go to strat is starting the game by building a line of level four forts along Italy and Belgium's borders then rushing to get the focuses for the free +2 fort levels along the same lines. with level six forts I Spam out 14-16 width pure infantry in massive numbers with engineers to hold the line while I make either 30 width artillery focused divisions that are like 12 infantry 2 artillery or light/medium tank division that are roughly 9 tank battalions and 6 motorized/mechanized. Depends on if I feel like microing tanks or not tbh. some days I'm just too lazy to bother with micro so I default to artillery heavy divisions. IDK if its a good idea or not but I never have a division with less than 40 org, I always keep it at least 40 org.

[@michaziemski2492]

Literally at the start? I don't start with anything except industry and infrastructure because it gives you expontential returns. Forts I build around late 1938 early 1939 when I have around 60-70 mils first.

[@atomicLord97]

Yea, literally at the start. then I build civs till mid 39 and start spamming out mills. by the time 1940 rolls around I Usually have a powerful enough army to retake the benelux and begin an invasion of Germany proper. roughly around that time the soviets will either invade or hitler invades the soviets and it makes the whole invasion of Germany much easier. I always put every available unit I can spare into Africa to push Italy out before 1939 even ends. I play slower than most, I like to make very strong defenses and then build up behind them and push out. in my current game I've got 12 30 width tank divisions that have encircled and killed a million Germans in Belgium alone. It probably seems like a really stupid way to play but I find it works fairly well.

[@yRaikiri]

Hello Kitty Tonk goes hard

[@historybuff8908]

The military company policy isn’t bugged you just don’t need to upgrade your tanks if it’s a company policy.

[@GoldenFalconSC]

Dude made sure that no one will play this save after peace conference 💀

[@Swagmaster07]

Tanks are quite literally moving Bunkers with Cannons, if you armor them enough and dig them in (entrenchment)

[@cognology604]

That ad read sounded like you were dying while recording

[@lyx23]

....but it wasn't tanks only? 😮 Also you can add cheap light tank recon and cheap flame tank for extra dozer blades

[@deilusi]

10:40 use armored recon with dozer and flame tanks with dozer as well for extra 2 points in entrenchment. you basically give your guys bulldozers so they can dig a foxhole superfast (IMHO it adds entrenchment speed, not depth, but oh well)

[@Xeem_Pad]

14:38 this is not true. Both french and british forces were defending Belgium. You can refresh your memory in video of Eastory - 'WW2 western front'

[@FalconRyan24]

feedback casually building an army of killdozers

[@mehmetalpyel]

1 heavy tank with over 72 armor can block half of the attack given by enemy since its can not be pierced, at 1 has 60 piercing, with at1 upgrade it gets +%20 percent piercing, and adding only 1 of them can shiled the whole unit, so 1 heavy tank, with few artilley or light spg2 rounded up to 30 or 35 combat with is the ultima tank for defence.

[@kerkonig5102]

FYI every moddifier that "increses defence" also increses breakthrough. bee that your generals traits, or your nations moddifiers. thats why your infantry did so good on the offense.

[@kerkonig5102]

if you simply had added signal companies the german ai wouldn't have pushed oyu a single tile. Everywhere oyu got pushed it was because of reinforce memes. signal companies would have completely countered that.

[@Fuer64]

Loving the mobile Maginot also RIP Strasbros

[@johngobannaq809]

AHHHH WHY DID YOU PUT GASOLINE ENGINE ??? the reliability :(

[@Zenitchik_130]

11:30 Yeah, they won, but they sure don't want another round of this

[@carltonleboss]

Now I want to see you play aggressive France...

[@Swagmaster07]

At least in this universe the French wont be made fun of for ww2.

[@icantmeme4378]

loved the video Dave

[@Crazybawrks]

Time to make that artillery only remake video

[@Pyrotekkit]

Just when I was looking for something to watch, thanks Dave!

[@torillatavataans711]

That bordergore in the end was something.. 😂

[@scubandym1941]

If you had taken Africa you could have knocked out Italy as well. I thought it was a very interesting build. I have never used dozer blades before

[@Markus-co8uk]

Focusing defense here is kinda awesome for the memes and just to see a really satisfying huge number, but past the enemy's soft attack, extra defense doesn't do anything. Better to focus on soft attack.

[@franzxaverjosephconradgraf6850]

Ah my favourite old stratergy, Digging to the core of the earth for entrenchment

[@RobsRedHotSpot]

23:00 I think your offensives are succeeding because their divisions are understrength lol

[@blacktemplar7102]

when you dont whant the breakthrow on the tank and go for defens than dont build turrets in your tank , go for casemate to increas your defens. when you use smal artellerie guns in you get very cheap artellery without need of tungsteel.

[@Zenitchik_130]

You ask for defensive tank? You basically get Challenger series

[@TheArklyte]

"On an episode of "Did You Evn Know It Existed?"" And we have the most broken part of NSB coming back, just not on scout tanks this time😅

[@mandalorion]

Hi Dave. I haven't played Hoi4 since 2021, but I've really enjoyed your minmaxed videos so have decided to jump back in, I see the game has changed a lot since I last played!

[@rramos117]

I remember FeedBack’s France MinMax guide from 2017. Dude had us building 10 widths and the super maginot line 😂

[@haydenknight3700]

Honestly just the extending the maginot Focus already solves a lot of the issues. Then the next worry is manpower. You have all of 1936-1940 to build up experience with training to put a bunch of artilery and aa on defensive infantry. I say aa vs anti tank cause has decent early game piercing and also can atleast blunt a cas swarm long enough for uk to fighter dump all over eastern France and the Benelux. Doing char b’s early is effective in the short run as long as the armor is high enough but unless you have motorized units in reserve as break out units then your counter offensive is going to be a very slow slog

[@simonfilipberg5098]

5:17 Just horsing around

[@alvinofebriandeffandi-1792]

999 defense done, now 999 breakthrough

[@grouchypotatowolfpack5580]

Cool proof of concept, but every point of defense/breakthrough past the enemy's attack is wasted, the game only considers whether or not you have more defense than their attack, and gives a huge damage reduction if they can't beat it. Between that and armour, you're looking at up to 8x damage reduction.

[@Sinvare]

Probing attack lets you keep your entrenchment for a minor -20% attack.

[@matyasfukk3270]

Hey dave, I want to give you some cheesy ideas for playing france: First, if you join the Spanish civil war just as the republicans are about to lose, you can annex the whole of Spain. Second, if you don't join the allies and then occupy the countries that germany occupied (eg. The Netherlands or Poland while they are still capitulated) you can get them in the peace deal. The brits will barely have any points if you take italy out in Africa so you can annex like all of the axis

[@aarnijarvelainen8499]

Why no fixed superstructure?

[@FeedbackGaming]

CRAP! Good point

[@thinkwithportals5018]

Can't have fixed superstructure with AA Tanks

[@AmalekIsComing]

he sounds so dead inside narrating the sponsorship

[@TheSuperappelflap]

If one point of entrenchment boosts defense by 3%, then one point of entrenchment is better than one point of defense if you have greater than 33 defense. So, trading a point of defense for a point of entrenchment is better, in that case. If you were to go below 33 defense, then it won't be. And at 33, it is break even. Assuming that this 3% stacks linearly on itself. This has diminishing returns though. For example, if you have a 10% boost, then those 33 defense points are all worth 1.1 each effectively, for a total of 36.3 defense. Adding another 3% boost will only boost it by 1 point exactly (3% of 33 = 1) but adding another defense point will add 1.1 defense. So the optimal solution is to keep both values in the multiplication as equal as possible in this equilibrium, then they square with each other and the value is maximized. i.e. if you have 10 entrenchment, you have a 30% bonus, so you would want your defense to be at least 33+30%=43 before investing in more entrenchment over defense.

[@VictoryOTP_]

Id be interested to see how this works out with two division types: big chonker and small adaptive infantry. Id also be interested in how the tanks work with AT and AA (two otherwise identical tank types) which may help crack the nazis offensive

[@user-pd6ev9gb7j]

Defense is only defense from org damage, not only on the defensive. Soft/hard attacks are org attack

[@PuppetierMaster]

Why is there a Camel in Italy? 14:04 One of these things are not where they're suppose to be.

[@willywonka6487]

the current state of france irl says it all

[@TheArklyte]

>Invest in getting recon bonus Or >Just put tactics without counters into preferred tactics of country, field marshal and general. I love how every new DLC gets nerfed "for balance" only for next DLC introduce the thing that would have balanced it anyway. As a result we have hundreds of mechanics that irl were decisive, but are so weak in the game because they were nerfed at some point.

[@ceohisham4679]

Why making anti air tank when support anti air exist isnt it enough?

[@FeedbackGaming]

True

[@gaborvoros2303]

With military police would be better, but nice video ^^

[@guyfriends1843]

Wouldn't diesel have been a superior engine option to boost that reliability, then allowing for swap to sloped armor on the wet ammo storage or more defense stack

[@aidonger42069]

is it just me or is base game meta just high def infantry and then you never get pushed

[@crunch.dot.73]

In singleplayer yeah

[@raiderthereaper1860]

the funny part is i chees this with german ,switzerland,france,russia even further build 10 forts and the make this focus and now you have 12 bunkers on one section. with switzerland i think yoiu can do it better in form of 13 or 14 bunkers per section and 6 or 7 aa´s on 1 provins

[@wddaww]

AA light tanks with anti tank/ arty mediums added on? I wonder how that would do now that the addition of MIO’s can reduce output cost

[@buri2]

This might be realy funny if you combine it with finland. They have even higher defence bonuses, did annybody try it yet?

[@jkgzjhp1705]

if you play USSR you can get entrenchment over 100

[@JoeMun]

You had me in the first half, not gonna lie

[@mrhonkhonk6116]

Hey it's realistic the front on the north is collapsing and in the south 1 division stopping the entire italian army

[@JMikeLittle]

Both Infrastructure and Spy Agency are good intro builds before you get CV and Mil bonuses.

[@saladmcjones7798]

Those French tendrils spanning across Europe are truly cursed. Well done.

[@Mohenti]

These are lines of trenches and bunkers.

[@dylanandmolly3739]

Traction machine (tractor)

[@andthe4010]

and you still somehow fuck it up and start to lose

[@dracorawth8962]

Jut fyi, french and britih went into belgium to defend them

[@peoplesoft2784]

Uh breakthrough is literally defense on the attack, so if I call the +10% defense trait is better than the +10% breakthrough. But I could be wrong

[@Gorbz]

Defensive tanks ONLY *has units that are 60% infantry* Something seems off here...

[@aslkbgh]

armoured anti air tractors, nice.

[@flameguy3416]

Recommended feed showing me a video from 50 minutes ago? Lets go

[@nico-zh8ol]

El mejor youtuber de este juego! saludos desde Argentina ,tus videos son divertidos

[@darudeak]

0:54 a bunker on TRACKS Dave. Heavy tanks don't use wheels. A wheel is a circular object that revolves on an axle and is fixed below a vehicle or other object to enable it to move easily over the ground. Where as continuous tracks or tracked treads are a system of vehicle propulsion used in tracked vehicles, running on a continuous band of treads or track plates driven by two or more sprockets.

[@RafoAlt-cg5fc]

I go for level 10 forts till the coast line, it works well and after a month the germans just stop attacking me. Works well just really boring

[@CapC-C]

Ma man just made moving Maginot line

[@CyborG73rus]

Pretty sure Japanese made those kind of tanks during WW2 in preparation for the siege of japan, but they were never actually used.

[@AmoxicillinTheGreat]

It doesnt make sense to go over 5.0 entrenchment per divison because it is capped at 5.0

[@tchitchikov]

Hey Dave you can also do Revolutionary Zeal if you go communist France and get +25% division defense on core territory

[@ThePoint6]

Well I wouldn't say it's tanks only. More Space marine if anything but great video none the less.

[@coced]

13:50 LE damage was dealt

[@elementalgolem5498]

tanks actually being great defensive units and even now in the modern era being used as such should be proof enough of it being a good idea. just saying, if you have the industry for it, why not make slow but powerful guns that hold the line, especially because in real life they had much better tank entrenchment than hoi4 models ;P

[@yuckal]

Nice, btw what happened to that Paratroopers only video mate?

[@kenny.-.9087]

Can you try medium and/or heavy airframes only? I find myself doing light airframes only in each of my runs since the cost is so high. But I would like to see the benefits of the larger builds in action.

[@nerzha]

Imagine the defense bonuses you could have gotten if you had gone the independent Communist path.