Review: Puzzling Paul Paray from...somewhere

[@Danzig987]

Paul Paray was such a fantastic conductor -- and so many of his recordings stand among the best of the rep ever committed to the microphones. The Franck Symphony in D Minor ... Ravel's Bolero, Alborado del Gracioso, La Valse, Daphnis & Chloe Suite 2, Valses nobles and Tombeau de Couperin, Debussy's Nocturnes and La Mer, Lalo's Namouna, Chabrier's Espana, Gwendoline and Suite pastorale ... the list goes on and on and on.

[@richardwiley3676]

Back in 1973 I was on a tour in Michigan with the Leeds Youth Orchestra (UK). We home stayed in Farmington just outside Detroit and my friend was lucky enough to stay with a retired percussionist (timpani if I remember correctly, unfortunately I don't remember the gentleman's name). However, we asked him who he regarded as the best conductor he had worked with and without hesitation he said Paul Paray. At that time as a mere teenager I had not heard of him but I am so glad he introduced him. Such a wonderful conductor!

[@stayoutofmyhouse]

I managed to find an original Mercury Living Presence LP of Paray doing Bolero/Mother Goose Suite with the DSO in great condition the other day, and it's truly phenomenal sounding. Makes you wonder what they've really learned about making a recording in the past 60 years.

[@Danzig987]

And those Paray interpretations are out of this world, too. After hearing his take on both Bolero and Valses nobles, it's impossible to return to the scads of other recordings out there and not be majorly disappointed. And the Debussy Nocturnes are also incredibly effective in the (very) different interpretive slant that Maestro Paray brings to them.

[@hugocalisto120]

I'm so happy I got the 3 big Mercury cubes when they were available...

[@stefanomasnaghetti1769]

At last! What a joy listen to all Mercury living presence records of Paray boxed up by the marvellous Australia Eloquence! Terrific! It was worth the waiting. Ok, the original jackets have a really short playing time, but the artistic quality is so high that who cares? And I have to confess, I love the original jackets. :-D Actually, the sound that Paray realizes through the Detroit Symphony Orchestra is almost dead and gone. It's a real privilege listen to these cds: the outstanding sonics make a perfect pair with the brillance, precision, wit and Paray's french touch. Dear Dave, I hope that you'l like to make a video about those essential releases. Thanks so much for all your videos! I'm having health issues for two and half years now, and your humour, intelligence and enormous musical preparations help me to withstanding these very tough times.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

My best wishes to you for a complete recovery!

[@revfogle]

I moved to the metro-Detroit area in 2006 and one of my (many) music obsessions is to collect Paul Paray’s Detroit Symphony LP discography. His Dvorak New World is probably one of my top choices and he’s opened my mind (and heart?) to portions of the French repertory I basically was kind of “meh” about.

[@DavidJohnson-of3vh]

Paul Paray recordings are great :) An old friend is a oboist originally from Detroit. He knew some of the symphony guys who would do back-up recordings for Motown records.

[@guillermovillacorta4590]

Thanks Dave, nice video...I did not find this set on...well, Amazon, for the details...I found the 5-Cd box, though, the one you showed...but it's ok...BTW, I have an Mercury Living Presence LP: Paray Conducts Wagner...which includes the infamous Sigfried's Idyll...ha ha...have a nice day...GV

[@kennethkleszynski1744]

I came across this box while browsing for something else, took a chance (It literally was $20), and everything Dave says is true. One of those extremely rare occurrences where something seems too good to be true--but this time it is! Based on some other comments it also appears to be legal, so don't hesitate. BTW, this label also has a Reiner/CSO box that looks as if it derives from the RCA recordings.

[@davidletvin839]

Australian Eloquence has now issued all of the Paray Detroit Mercury recordings in two boxes arranged chronologically, remastered. Not inexpensive, but very good transfers, original jacket design. It’s all of these performances plus more, a total of 45 CDs.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes.

[@andrewbryant3286]

When do you think you’ll make a video about Lorin Maazel’s “The Ring Without Words?” I have long been fascinated by the Ring as a piece of art, but I am not a huge fan of opera in general and I’m not interested of listening to hours upon hours of music in order to “fully experience it.” I have been looking for a way to sort of streamline my experience with the Ring so that I can at least experience the best moments from it, and “The Ring Without Words” claims to be a work that does just that. Because of this, I would very much appreciate a video that dives into what this work is and explains the best recordings of it!

[@billslocum9819]

Cover like that deserves a special title, like "Can't Have A 'P-A-R-T-Y' Without Paray." Of course, Einstein posed like that in a famous photo, and maybe Paray wanted to show Fritz Reiner there was another way to pose for an LP.

[@AlexMadorsky]

I love that album cover...at least it doesn’t take itself too seriously like so many conductor boxes. I don’t know Paray’s oeuvre at all. Quickly perusing his many available recordings on Spotify, I’m most intrigued by his Paray’s own compositions, as well as the Roussel Suite in F I’ve come to love thanks to your video. I’m always interested in hearing new-to-me conductors take on standard French rep. I’ll keep on listening!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

His "Joan of Arc" Mass is gorgeous.

[@AlexMadorsky]

@@DavesClassicalGuide yes, and I see there’s a recording on Spotify where the Paray Mass is coupled with his Symphony #1. Added to my queue for the weekend!

[@grandisdavid]

His symphony no.2 is superb, check also the cello sonata!

[@bradleykay]

Eloquence is releasing two volumes of Paray/Mercury in June of 2022.

[@vinylisland6386]

The early Mercury Mono Bolero (MG 50020) is a knockout. The stereo is very good, but this is something else.

[@miltalive]

I have no answers as to the source. I bought the Paray and a Fritz Reiner set. iTunes has some interesting collections of William Steinberg and Nathan Milstein that appear to be drawn from the vaults of Capital. One of my former professors had a recording he made in the 70's turn up on iTunes. He told me it wasn't authorized but some of these are companies springing up, making money, and disappearing about the time the cease & desist arrives.

[@patrickhows1482]

There are many of these boxes, including performers as well as conductors. I bought mine on Amazon over several years, so I would guess they are legitimate, as Amazon would not continue selling them if they were of dubious origin.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, Amazon would. They have no idea.

[@tterrace]

In the video realm, there are plenty of dubious origin DVDs and Blu-Rays on Amazon.

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

Hi Dave! On what hifi equipment do you listen to your CDs?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

All kinds. That I do not discuss because it has nothing to do with music.

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

@@DavesClassicalGuide ok. Thanks

[@ralphbruce1174]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I think a 25 000$ stereo system plays better than a iphone. LOL

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@ralphbruce1174 Sometimes.

[@richardwiley3676]

Decca Eloquence have brought out two boxes of Paray, one of my favourite conductors! I have almost all of them on Mercury Living Presence and don't know whether to buy the new sets which apparently have been remastered. Would you consider doing a video on them please? Also please advise me - will I be wasting my money (they are both over £90 each in U.K.) just to gain only a few CDs I don't own?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I haven't heard them yet but I already know the answer. Yes, you would be wasting your money if you have the stuff already.

[@richardwiley3676]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you so much Dave!

[@bannan61]

Some other boxes that I can recommend from this series: Britten birthday collection (10CD), Nielsen the Danish symphonist (Bostock 10CD), British Symphonic Collection (10CD), Cosi/Figaro/Giovanni/Magic Flute (mid 1950s early stereo. Lovely!! 10CD). One dud was the Moura Lympany box - terrible crackly transfers from poor LPs.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'd pass on the Nielsen.

[@bannan61]

@@DavesClassicalGuide For around 20 quid it's worth it for the 7 CDs of orchestral works, concertos and chamber pieces. The Liverpool Phil are in good form in the symphonies and are worth hearing despite not being a top recommendation (a bit too laid back and lacking in fire admittedly). One other thing in the box's favour - it's using the original Classico masters rather than vinyl. Sounds great. By the way, I also forgot to mention another one to look out for: Konwitschny's complete Beethoven and Schumann symphonies (10 CDs) which is also derived from the original Eterna/Berlin Classics masters from the late 50s and early 60s. Very decent sound and beautiful playing too.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@bannan61 Fair enough.

[@bannan61]

@@DavesClassicalGuide We concur. :)

[@danny85901]

David, all recorded material up until 1962 is not protected by copyright and is now public domain. The reason it stopped at 1962 is because at 1962 all The Beatles recordings were about to start loosing their copyrights so all the lawyer sharks at EMI went to court and put an end to that. So you can also make your own boxes :-)

[@michaelmyers2757]

Worthy of re-issue in great sound. I had a couple of the LPs. I just couldn’t settle for a second rate sound. Thank you for being so explicit. I will pass.

[@ZviSRosen]

Because you're "very, very curious to find out," I'll share what I know - which to be clear is nothing about this box set per se. But the short version is that these recordings are public domain in Europe, not in the USA, but it's complicated. In Europe, the term of protection for sound recordings was 50 years until the Beatles/Stones began to approach that mark, at which point the EU extended it to 70 years, non-retroactively, with a "use it or lose it" clause (which is part of why you see a lot of megaboxes these days, aside from market factors). The EU passed the measure in November 2013, so generally speaking it's going to be pre-1964 records in the public domain. This comes with lots of caveats, obviously. There's also composition copyright, but that's generally not an issue except for composers like Shostakovich & Stravinsky. In the USA sound recordings made before 1972 are regulated by state law, except that since 2018 streaming them digitally (so Spotify etc) has been regulated by the federal Music Modernization Act. The best-known recent case is Capital Records v. Naxos, where Naxos Historical issued a bunch of Heifetz recordings made for EMI in the 30s. They were public domain in the UK, but the New York high court held that they violated New York common-law copyright for complex reasons. Since it's state by state it's a bit of a patchwork, but the New York ruling tends to be relevant for companies that do business there (so, most of them). It's actually an interesting question whether the Universal remasters are protected by copyright separate from the original recording. The better view is actually no (the US Copyright Office publishes a Compendium of U.S. Copyright Office Practices, which at 803.9(F) goes into this) but in practice Universal would rather ignore questionable uses than lose in court - on the flip side defending a lawsuit against Universal could cost millions. So, it's technically not legal to sell this box in the USA. However, it's legal to own it I believe (copyright consists of a bundle of rights - reproduction, distribution, public performance, creation of derivative works, and public display). If you want to play sound samples from this sort of stuff I'd be cautious unless you have permission from Universal. As this KZbin comment did not include a bill, please recognize that it is not legal advice.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you. I'll pay you when viewers pay me! Fair?

[@ZviSRosen]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Best bargain I could ask for.

[@Danzig987]

@@DavesClassicalGuide You know the old adage about free legal advice: It's usually worth almost as much as it costs.

[@jfddoc]

I've always been puzzled by how Universal has handled the Mercury catalog. It was inspired to have Wilma Cozart Fine involved in the CD reissues. Several years after that, Universal started releasing some important missing pieces like the Mono Dorati Copland 3rd Symphony, Respighi Church Windows, and mono 1812 Overture. The Fennell Stravinsky/Hindemith stereo disk was also finally released. But then they lost interest again. And there are still things out to be reissued like the Fennell American Concert Band Masterpieces and the Dorati mono Tchaikovsky Sleeping Beauty and Nutcracker from Minneapolis.

[@frankgyure3154]

European copyright laws have a shorter period versus the US. I think it’s 50 years in European,75 years in US. So,basically,any recording is fair game to be released as this set. As mentioned,it is not sourced from the original tapes but from LP’s.

[@frankgyure3154]

Addendum. Any recording made more more than 50 years ago are fair game.

[@rsmickeymooproductions4877]

These recordings simply do not cut it. There are no details for a special reason. I'm no audiophile as well but the spectre of sound is miles apart. Parry and Living Mercury are marriage made in heaven. A poor imitation is so tacky and slightly disrespectful to the real thing . Sorry for the rant

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That's really up to each listener. I think I was pretty clear that the sound quality is inferior to the CDs, but others won't mind and the price is terrific.

[@jjquinn2004]

Marketing 101. We all make these purchasing decisions every time we go shopping. I’ll pay a healthy premium and drink Guinness stout rather than Beamish or Murphys, while on the other hand I won’t pay a penny more for any brand of bottled water as I think they all taste the same. In my early days of purchasing classical music I bought an ok performance of “The Ring Cycle” because I couldn’t afford the one I wanted.