Rabbit Hole Composers - Olivier Messiaen

Sources:
~Alsop, Marin. “Finding God, Love And The Meaning Of Life In Messiaen's 'Turangalîla-Symphonie'.” NPR, NPR, 12 Jan. 2019, www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2019/01/12/684211259/finding-god-love-and-the-meaning-of-life-in-messiaens-turangal-la-symphonie.
~Bauer, Amy. “‘The Impossible Charm of Messiaen's Chronochromie.’” EScholarship, University of California, UC Irvine, 20 Jan. 2016, escholarship.org/content/qt5xw0x3gc/qt5xw0x3gc.pdf.
~Burkholder, J. Peter, et al. A History of Western Music. W.W. Norton & Company, 2019.
~Classical Nerd. “Great Composers: Olivier Messiaen”. “KZbin”. KZbin. May 11, 2017. • Great Composers: Olivi... .
~Gutmann, Peter. “Olivier Messiaen: Quator Pour Le Fin De Temps.” Classical Notes, Classical Notes, www.classicalnotes.net/classics6/quatuor.html.
~Henken, John. “Preludes (Olivier Messiaen).” LA Phil, LA Phil, www.laphil.com/musicdb/pieces/2974/preludes.
~Kozinn, Allan. “Olivier Messiaen, Composer, Dies at 83.” The New York Times, The New York Times, 29 Apr. 1992, www.nytimes.com/1992/04/29/arts/olivier-messiaen-composer-dies-at-83.html.
~“Learn about the French Composer, Olivier Messiaen & His Works.” Galaxy Music Notes, galaxymusicnotes.com/pages/learn-about-the-french-composer-olivier-messiaen-and-his-works-life.
~Ledbetter, Steven. “OLIVIER MESSIAEN: Oiseaux Exotiques (‘Exotic Birds’).” Aspen Music Festival And School, Aspen Music Festival And School, www.aspenmusicfestival.com/program_notes/view/messiaen-oiseaux-exotiques-exotic-birds.
~ORT, World. “Music and the Holocaust.” Music and the Holocaust, holocaustmusic.ort.org/places/camps/western-europe/messiaenolivier/.
~Philharmonia Orchestra (London, UK). “Olivier Messiaen 1908-1992: Messiaen’s Use of Birdsong”. ~“KZbin”. KZbin. Feb. 19, 2008. • Olivier Messiaen 1908-... .
~Silva, Eddie. “Des Canyons Aux Étoiles... (Olivier Messiaen).” Hollywood Bowl, www.hollywoodbowl.com/musicdb/pieces/301/des-canyons-aux-etoiles.
~Simeone, Nigel. “'Chez Messiaen, Tout Est Priére': Messiaen's Appointment at the Trinité.” The Musical Times, vol. 145, no. 1889, 2004, pp. 36-53. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/4149128. Accessed 3 Apr. 2020.
~Simeone, Nigel. “Towards 'Un Succès Absolument Formidable': The Birth of Messiaen's ‘La Transfiguration.’” The Musical Times, vol. 145, no. 1887, 2004, pp. 5-24. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/4149144. Accessed 3 Apr. 2020.
~Messiaen, Olivier. “Apparition de l’eglise éternelle”. Henry Lemoine. Paris. 1934.
~Messiaen, Olivier. “Chronochromie”. Éditions Musicales Alphonse Leduc. Paris. 1963.
~Messiaen, Olivier. “Concert à quatre”. Éditions Musicales Alphonse Leduc. Paris. 2003.
~Messiaen, Olivier. “Huit preludes pour piano”. Durand & Co. Paris. 1930.
~Messiaen, Olivier. “Oiseaux exotiques”. Universal Edition Ltd. London. 1959.
~Messiaen, Olivier. “Quator pour le fin de temps”. Durand & Co. Paris. 1942.
~Messiaen, Olivier. “Reveil des oiseaux”. Durand & Co. Paris. 1955.
~Messiaen, Olivier. “Turangalîla-Symphony”. Durand & Co. Paris. 1953.
Save for my own performance of Oiseaux exotiques, I do not own any of the recordings used in this video. This video is intended for purposes of education and therefore the content used in this video are within the confines of fair use.
~
www.thacherschreiber.com/
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#oboe #classicalmusic #flute #cello #piano #orchestra #messiaen

[@7stringjazz1]

You can hear the birds! It’s like being in an aviary. ❤ Messiaen.

[@pseudotonal]

Good performance and a most excellent intro to Messiaen. In High School my choir teacher told me about a Messiaen lecture at the American University. I attended it and took my tape recorder. While there, Messiaen played a tape recording of his Sept haïkaï. Years later I bought the score, forgetting the name of the work I had recorded at the lecture. As I was reading through the score I suddenly realized that I recognized it as that work I heard in his lecture. That made me feel good since I could actually read and kind of hear the score.

[@northcountycountry4144]

More people need to hear your podcasts ... you made my day ... as I complete a research method on embodiment in performance theory.

[@ikmarchini]

Messiaen is a rabbit hole, indeed. Need to learn it all, but.... PS, I conducted the US premiere of his "Chant des déportés" in 1997 in NJ. Radio France had lost the score in its library soon after the 1945 premiere and was rediscovered and published around the time of Messiaen's death.

[@miguelcarter-fisher7540]

I’ve loved Messiaen for a long time but never have seen such a great overview. Thank you for sharing!

[@christube131]

Brilliant Thank you. An unique doccie to match an unique composer. Your final performance was a gift!

[@nevertheless123]

fabulous video. Thank you,

[@kimweonill]

I enjoyed it very much. Thanks.

[@jeonghyeon-andi-lee]

Thank you sir for this video. I hope to see more rabbit hole composer videos

[@gerardocardenas6591]

Fantastic intro to Messiaen´s world! I was lucky to study composition and musical analysis in Paris with his successor on these subjects: composer Jacques Castèréde and I consider the very personal charm, fantasy and colourful magic of Messiaen´s language still remain so bad known for most people. Many thx help to spread this legacy not only by talking about it but by playing it with such a passion. Congratulations!

[@lindamortensen7835]

I learned about him just days ago while watching Mozart in the Jungle. As soon as I learned of him I too went down the rabbit hole listening to all I could find. Nicely done video.

[@mirandac8712]

thank you for the beautiful video

[@sourmilkman1095]

I've been interested in the world of Messaien for a while now, mostly down to Jonny Greenwood's very own Ondes Martonet. Today my music teacher a look into modes of limited transposition today (and even tried to compose with them [to varying degress of success]) and I was on the hunt for more Messaien - there's no better video I could have turned to! I love his idea of using birdsong to display both the beauty and savagery of nature. Thanks a lot for such an informative video!

[@2krandolph]

I'm glad you discovered a rabbit hole with this one. I heard Olivier Messiaen decades ago and was similarly taken by him and some of the others you mention. Thanks for sharing your own appreciation of Messiaen on the piano. Nice. As for your French, you didn't sound too shabby to me (but what do I know?). Good work. Continue.

[@BeauJames59]

Thanks. They did Canyons a couple weeks ago in Seattle...sublime.

[@AKhosrobeik]

Great job! Thank you

[@fallingmanuk]

Thank you for this interesting video - I studied Quatour Pour Le Fin Du Temps for my A Level Music exam in 1985: I found the music challenging to listen to as well as understand, but as you point out, his music is something very different, unique, and divinely-inspired, so I have fond memories of discovering more about him and particularly his organ music, which took the musical mysticism to wondrous heights. I learned something very new and very different from his music back then, so it was nice to find this video and analysis where you'd gone all the way down this rabbit hole that I'd merely peeked into myself!

[@josephgiuseppedegregorio4553]

AMAZING WORK

[@catcook3324]

Saw Turangalila at Carnegie Hall with St.Louis symphony. The Ondes player was amazing.

[@alanparmenter]

Why was the ondes so flat in the Turangalila!?

[@jyrkiwahlstedt1136]

Saw the opera last July in Stuttgart, wonderful experience ❤️

[@francisbone4886]

Very good summary of Messiaen's life and work. You could have perhaps devoted attention to "Vingt regards sur l'enfant Jésus" (for piano: absolutely extraordinary) but otherwise, highly informative. Messiaen's time will come!

[@andycarter9845]

Perfect term rabbit hole! I think Alex Ross' The Rest is Noise turned me on to him, listened to Turangalila first, and then never resurfaced, the major orchestral works, organ and piano works etc. I still can't 'get' Chronochromie though.

[@Thatsgay123]

Poem for mi, variations for violin and piano, it’s endless, his wonderful music. Wonder if he fell for Vatican2 and the Novus Ordo ?

[@TimCutts]

I fell in love with Messiaen's music when I heard "Les Corps Glorieux" played by a friend at school. I tend to much prefer his earlier music to the later works. I find it hard to pick much out after the mid 50's that I really like. I think it becomes too much just synaesthetic painting, and while I'm sure it was spectacular in Messiaen's mind, it doesn't work so well in mine. However, the earlier works of the 1930's and 1940's are really fabulous. I especially like his depictions of eternity; slow, ecstatic movements like the final movement of the Quartet for the End of Time, the 15th movement of Vingt Regards, the final movement of L'Ascension, Combat de la mort et de la vie from Les Corps Glorieux (the very movement that got me hooked in the first place) and, of course, the 6th movement of Turangalila.

[@Gg-jq7ht]

I am just finishing up bringing Les Corps Glorieux back under my fingers. I adore it.

[@alfredneubert1288]

I can recommend Henri Dutilleux

[@damienheemskerk]

Great video! You should check out Schnittke, another great "rabbit-hole" composer

[@mikecimerian6913]

Norman McLaren's Synchromy used replication of geometric patterns from the film on the audio-video track. Synergetic exploration.

[@TheModicaLiszt]

Great video! No mention of the awesome Vingt Regards though, they are my favourite Messiaen work :)

[@themoonfleesthroughclouds]

Vingt Regards is an absolute masterpiece, but sadly is ignored by a wider audience. Even my old teacher only knew of Messiaen’s preludes and organ music. It’s a real shame.

[@iulianturicianu9576]

I’m studying Messiaen for my dissertation, I’m playing Theme and Variations for violin and piano, but it never gets mentioned. However this was so much fun to watch!

[@ahagan6593]

He wrote so little for the violin. I've taken to "stealing" other pieces, like the "Lecons de Solfege" (sight-reading exercises for singers) which make nice miniatures, and I have an eye on the Vocalise-etude.

[@themoonfleesthroughclouds]

I was going to play this with a friend. (Me on piano, my friend on violin) but my friend was too lazy to learn any of it, so it never happened.

[@iulianturicianu9576]

@@themoonfleesthroughclouds that’s funny, the piano part is extremely difficult, I had a really hard time finding a pianist, but the violin part I wouldn’t say is very demanding, just needs a lot of dinamic contrasts

[@themoonfleesthroughclouds]

@@iulianturicianu9576 yeah. my friend was just lazy. the piano part is impossible to memorise as well

[@stubbsmusic543]

My favorite is L'epilepsy des Oiseeaux.

[@porcinet1968]

just stymbed across this - instant subscribe.

[@frankgradus9474]

same here

[@geoffroymb]

I like that term "rabbit hole" composers. One of mine is Claude Vivier, and you should definitely check him out if he's not already on your list!

[@bubffm]

Seconded!

[@stevebeck3863]

I heard The Turangalia Symphonie performed by the LA Phil in Disney Hall. The audience went wild at the end. It was a wonderful experience.

[@thacherschreiber3980]

I'm pretty sure I also saw that performance! It was something special!

[@stevebeck3863]

@@thacherschreiber3980 Mid January - 2019 a Friday night. It was spectacular!

[@thacherschreiber3980]

​@@stevebeck3863 That's definitely the one! I might have seen the Thursday performance but indeed it was!

[@lonchaneyfanch9568]

One of the highest musical voices of the XXth century

[@dieterweslowski4261]

Dear Thatcher, Kudos on your well done Messiaen primer. I was introduced to his soulfully delicious liturgical music when I sang on the Third Presbyterian Church choir, in Pittsburgh, PA, back in the 80's, directed by the wonderfully energetic and hilariously eccentric John Lively ( bow, bow, I am not worthy). O sacrum Convivium, by Olivier is one of my all time favorite pieces along with those Four Christmas Motets by Francis Poulenc. So, how come no mentioning of the fact that he "belonged" to the group known as Le Seis?

[@Sea-Weathered-Seijin]

Good work on this video. Messiaen is my favorite composer and it's great to see more people get excited about him and his work. However, I believe I spotted a minor error. At 7:15 you mention that he was imprisoned at Stalag VII-A (seven) when he was actually at Stalag VIII-A (eight). You can see this written at the top of the poster at 8:10. I admit I know nothing about the naming conventions of such camps and so I can't say for certain how relevant this distinction is but it is worth noting this discrepancy.

[@thacherschreiber3980]

aaah! One would hope after years of music theory I'd be able to read roman numerals by now! whoops!

[@retrigger_]

10:11 yes

[@igaramui]

great vid thanks so much!

[@andrewnguyen1220]

How many Us you spam

[@ahagan6593]

Who sounds like Messiaen? I'll nominate Toru Takemitsu.

[@themoonfleesthroughclouds]

Not really.

[@SeigneurReefShark]

yeah, not really

[@wormswithteeth]

He took a lot of influence for Messy

[@BeauJames59]

Not sure, but I listened to Takemitsu's "Muir Woods" for gitfiddle last night and it was awesome.

[@Victor-er3ku]

Santa Ratniece too, even more

[@PhilHarmonicus]

Very good! Thank you. I don't know if it's my connection to KZbin, but the audio and video were out of sync, especially noticeable during your rendition.

[@hegeliankid1226]

Still lost in the loop

[@ssmith9745]

21:30 Did Rameau write concerti?

[@xencage]

Awesomeness! Do one on Xenakis.

[@LazlosPlane]

What good is having a "magnum opus" if no one wants to perform it? All the great composers wrote music for the forces that were available to him.

[@ikmarchini]

Oscar Wilde: Bankers discuss art. Artists discuss money. [All things are possible with enough.]

[@PM_ME_MESSIAEN_PICS]

certified sorabji moment

[@georgesdelatour]

I think Messiaen was strongly influenced by Stravinsky, though he absorbed that influence into his personal style so well, it never “juts out” as some unincorporated pastiche element. His larger forms are mostly collages of opposing blocs of sound - which is a very Stravinskian approach. His rhythms are also a bit Stravinskian. Two pieces where I can hear the Stravinsky influence fairly clearly: 1) the “Trois petites liturgies” owes something to “Les Noces”. 2) the opening of “Regard de l'Esprit de joie” owes something to the Rite of Spring.

[@TimCutts]

I agree. Part of the third movement of the orchestral version of "L'Ascension" is also very reminiscent of the Rite of Spring. But this was written when Messiaen was still in his 20's, and as he got older his own style became more dominant and the influences of Stravinsky, Debussy and the like rather less obvious.

[@srothbardt]

Most of the guys you mention are hardy obscure, which is what I think you mean by “rabbit hole,” or hidden . ???

[@ronald220964]

I like birds in turangalila.

[@gwalaus]

At 20: 12, is that a lamp without a shade behind you, or some hitherto unknown electronic Messiaenic instrument?

[@thacherschreiber3980]

ha I wish! Just a lamp, the piano was kind of cramped into the corner of that room so I had to squeeze in next to it!

[@NMIC374]

If your ever near Rochester and need someone to record you HMU!

[@ippolit23]

Well, didn’t Messiaen actually even invent serialism with works like Livre d’Orgue or Cantèyojãya?

[@thacherschreiber3980]

That could be! It was my understanding that he started some of the initial experimentation that eventually led to that sort of compositional approach, but he never went as far as other composers did at the time (Babbitt, Boulez, Stockhausen, etc.). That being said... I'm no expert! This video was just for a presentation in a musicology class, I could easily have missed or misinterpreted some fact having to do with that! I spent more time in this presentation focusing on the general attributes of his compositional style, and less on his relationship to serialism (which I'm sure is just as fascinating!).

[@ippolit23]

@@thacherschreiber3980 There is a wonderful biography of Messiaen written by Peter Hill according to which Messaien fell into a creative crisis after the war - he felt that he started to repeat himself - and that he searched for new means of expression. He did only a handful of serial compositions before fully embracing bird song as musical language. His pupils, though, stayed in that lane.

[@aayyiss]

he helped with total, or integral serialism, by serialising musical elements other than pitch, namely rhythm. I his 4 etudes de rhythme he made rhythmic rows where rhythm and dynamics (not sure about the lader) were serialised. It's a fun work, check it out. Boulez famously wrote structures 1A after listening to it in a single night.

[@coreylapinas1000]

What about Arnold Schoenberg?

[@johnrobertson1795]

He's been dead for 50+ years and still has made no impression on the concert going public. Let's leave him alone in his well earned obscurity.

[@youtubeseagull]

14:15 not one, not two, but THREE ... ".. ernmerntenomes... " . What's an ernmartinome?

[@trashbin6161]

It's onde martenot and it's one of the first synthesizers

[@user-tn4nr5hm6u]

What? Messiaen did not suffer from synesthesia! he just had an intuition for it. There's even a video of him saying that himself. And you've showed waaaaay too little of his organ works! Not even mentioning he was a student of Marcel Dupre. His organmutic is way more important than his orchestral music.

[@user-tn4nr5hm6u]

@@chronochromie772 To begin with it is much larger in volume, it's almost like the maker of this video didn't know that. But besides that: the organ is Messiaen's audiophonic laboratory. Messiaen could express his "musical colours" much better on the organ that with any other instrument or set of instruments. Also Messiaen was the student of the greatest organist in France at that time (Marcel Dupre) and Messiaen really made his debut by winning an organcomposition competition with his piece Diptyque. Also his organ works show the most of his musical creativity while his works for other instruments sometimes tend to be a little bit the same in style. It's in the organworks where one hears the whole scope of Messiaen's ouvre.

[@user-tn4nr5hm6u]

@@chronochromie772 if I'm not mistaken he said it on the Reinbert de Leeuw interview.

[@user-tn4nr5hm6u]

@@chronochromie772 I have definitely listened to his orchestral works, also for ondes martenot ensemble. You say my comment is uneducated, but you mistake me for saying his organ works are more important. I pointed out that this documentary really doesn't do his oeuvre justice. I have played a portion of his organ works. There's a reason Messiaen called the organ his laboratory because with the organ you can make sounds that are more extraterrestrial than any sound an orchestra could make because of overtones and the control one experts over them.

[@user-tn4nr5hm6u]

@@chronochromie772 He sure is.

[@user-tn4nr5hm6u]

@@chronochromie772 Have you listened to the work "Dieu Parmi Nous"? Maybe you should listen to that. Especially the performance of Naji Hakim. Then, maybe you'll understand.

[@BeauJames59]

O'Livey Hey Messy Hands

[@BlueBeeMCMLXI]

Does Rabbit Hole mean to you that diligence and endurance are necessary towards understanding? Good. Work like a dog. Stay on the trail. Be a man.

[@nowkentapplegate5315]

I've been trying to hav e an open mind about Prithoprakta since 1963. It still sounds like pseudo intellectual garbage.