Is Free League going to be alright?

[@DaveThaumavore]

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[@normalusername5223]

Men in Black would be unironically a better franchise than the most basic of Zombie apocalypse games.

[@dreamakuma]

It's old and out of print, but West end games did a Men in Black RPG based on their Star wars d6 system. Lot of fun

[@godfreemorals]

@@dreamakuma aah you beat me to the answer! Yes, it was actually a great game. I loaned my copy out and sadly it's lost in the vortex! (Like so many others)

[@Puzzles-Pins]

Based on the comics, the movies, or the urban legend?

[@nodansland303]

​@@Puzzles-Pins movies largely

[@RecklessFables]

​@@Puzzles-PinsI'll go ahead and say that the answer to that question is "Yes". Or at least whatever doesn't inflate the costs due to having to do IP licensing :)

[@arturb..]

It's ironic that TWD is their next IP given that things are *beginning* to resemble latter-day Telltale - expanding too fast, commiting to too many projects, and pushing out too many similar games. I like Free League a lot and wish them nothing but success, but I'd really hate for them to pivot hard into the realm of IP companion pieces, instead of games like Forbidden Lands or Vaesen.

[@RosscoAW]

Tbf, they've developed a business model and in the course of doing so have had to build out their team and make other capital investments. Subsequently, they are financially tied to that model -- or a better one -- going forward, or they have to start making tough decisions like laying people off. For small companies, especially startups, with highly interpersonally interdependent teams, that's a hard sell; capitalism ensures that they have every incentive to continue expanding. That means continuing to produce content that can generate sufficient ongoing revenue, especially given their Kickstarter marketing strategy is both highly cost effective and can lead to significantly more profit on a project than otherwise financially feasible (that's the entire purpose of Kickstarter; an alternative financial vehicle to venture capital). Unfortunately, as detailed, the logic of venture capital is inescapable (because capitalism). A highly stable middle ground for them (between continuing what they're doing, and having to seek VC) is licensing IP and working with third-parties to continue to develop licensed material. They saw considerable success doing so with the Alien RPG, and presumably anticipate being able to do even more if they can partner with IP partners in joint ventures, revenue shares, or whatever the secret financial underpinning's of this AMC-TWDU deal are (you can bet your booty AMC is getting some slice of the cake, whether revenue or equity, and I doubt they're interested in any of Free League's equity lmao). This allows them to continue to develop products that both have a built-in marketing component (AMC is incentivized to market the consequent product themselves, assuming they have even simple royalties, which is the least of what they'd get for slapping the AMC logo right on the box nvm any closer partnership that's almost certainly occurring behind the scenes). Don't blame Free League, capitalism is a helluva drug, and a cold, rude, ruthless tyrant simultaneously. Profit margin is literally sacrosanct. That's really all it comes down to. Free League has no latitude to make *less* profit year over year, that's just not how capitalism works (and is literally illegal from the perspective of fiduciary duty, such that board directors can *and readily will be* held legally liable, personally, by shareholders for failing to make the most profitable decisions possible). So long as product predicated on preexisting IP has broader reach and therefore more profit potential, then they will continue to shift increasingly toward that over time, whether they want to or not. Their feelings are large secondary to the *need for growth.* If you don't like that, it's not Free League's fault, it's a function and feature of capitalism and you should direct your intellectual efforts and ire accordingly.

[@verlandes1]

Just fyi, Vaesen also is a license, Väsen was originally a childrens book in sweden, written by Johan Egerkrans.

[@Glupinickname]

"In the end, I'm looking forward to The Walking Dead Universe AMC Role-playing Game." OK, I chuckled.

[@WinterIgnatius]

Free League failed me multiple times to get a physical copy of my book, the last time taking my money, then cancelling my order without explanation over a month later to tell me it was out of stock at time of order. So they sat on my money for something they knew they could not deliver for over a month without so much as a sorry, just a canceled order. When I reached out to them, then they replied with a half-hearted sorry, but could not explain why it took them so long to respond. I have not dealt with them since.

[@DaveThaumavore]

@@WinterIgnatius they fixed their Out Of Stock issues on their website, but can understand not wanting to risk getting stung again. Sorry to hear about your experiences.

[@WinterIgnatius]

@@DaveThaumavore This was years agp and I long ago got a PDF copy, but wanted a physical one as it was advertised as a core supplement. Just felt jilted by the whole situation over the course of three years.

[@MRCHEEZUS]

Being swedish I've bought and played most free league game from the start, to support games in my native language. But they are definitely focusing more on new games than supplements for existing games. And it's such a shame. Still waiting for the Bloodmarches kickstarter to ship... And part 3 of the Coriolis campaign that I had planned to play with my group some years ago.

[@mikaelpalm2130]

I would unironically love an Masters of the Universe RPG. Camp could be one of the stats!

[@matthewconstantine5015]

Man, I love Free League's games, but there's definitely a late 90s vibe, where so many companies were overextending themselves, just before the whole industry collapsed. I wish so much that they'd focus on the games they've already made instead of continuing to acquire licensed produces.

[@adamwhitehead7289]

It does feel like a Walking Dead RPG is about 10 years overdue to cash in on the franchise's high point of success and profile. But hopefully that means they're also putting a lot of thought into it without rushing to hit the zeitgeist. With regards to the "universe" title, I believe AMC are insisting on this being put on future licensed products because The Walking Dead is now a "family" of interrelated TV shows (the OG show, Fear the Walking Dead, World Beyond, Tales of the Walking Dead, Dead City, the Daryl-in-France show and the Rick & Michonne TV movies) and they want everyone to know that. I'm also assuming Free League is down with that to head off the logical question, "Why are you making an RPG based on a dead show?" For Free League, I think they will be okay, but the risks you point out are very real. Free League have a reputation for excellence and it just takes a few customer service snafus and a few products that are late or subpar to damage that forever.

[@pimphandduke8447]

The ALIEN rpg came out 30 years after the high point of success for that film and it was just fine. It also pulled together a lot of material from the Alien 'universe' to use as lore and background setting. If this had come out at the peak of The Walking Dead's success, some 'non-creative' as Dave puts it, would almost certainly have shoved some mediocre cash grab book with a few stills from the TV show pasted in to fill dead spaces in the copy-pasta text out the door as fast as possible to make a buck off it.

[@marxmeesterlijk]

The kickstarters Free league is running right now for the expansion for Forbidden Lands, and the new Dragonbane are also plagued with delays and little communication. I love Free League, but i am also worried about their current heading. I really hope they will continue to make great accessible games. And now that you said that the Forbidden Lands books are indefinitely out of print I really want to see if I can pick up another set before it's too late.

[@casperriess6364]

If publishing new games comes at the cost of maintaining the old ones, count me out free league...

[@brettschacht4183]

I've already purchased 3 copies of the core box set for Forbidden Lands. I'm paranoid like that😄

[@megasquidd]

I've been waiting so long for the monster manual for Forbidden Lands, that I've already moved on from the game and sold all the other stuff.

[@FreeLeaguePublishing]

Hi! Totally fair about the Book of Beasts Kickstarter for Forbidden Lands - it has been delayed for reasons we have communicated repeatedly, and is not printed and shipping out to our fulfillment warehouses - but what is your concern for Dragonbane? It's well on track and Beta PDFs have been shared throughout development.

[@brettschacht4183]

@@FreeLeaguePublishing You should take all the communications in this thread in the spirit of love for your products and honest concern for the future health of your company. We're all fans here. But as a fan, I have to say that Free League's fulfillment of orders in general is not up to the standards of your products. Several of my orders were several MONTHS late - not great. I think your customers would simply appreciate more transparency about the availability of any items BEFORE we plunk our money down. I sincerely hope you take these comments to heart and try to fix these problems.

[@AFnord]

In all fairness, Free League has, for as long as they've had an international presence, been a company that has relied on IPs not made by them. Mutant, Coriolis & Twilight 2k were existing RPG franchises, Tales from the Loop, Vaesen and Forbidden Lands were games based on the artwork that had already been made by other artists (rather than artwork being made for the games), and Alien, Blade Runner and now The Walking Dead are existing media IPs. Symbaroum, Mörk Borg & The One ring are also pre-existing games not written by them originally (though they now fully own the company that wrote Symbaroum). And they've never really been a company that releases a boatload of content for their games, with Mutant and Coriolis being the ones that have got the most stuff (though a lot of the stuff released for those are very thin books)

[@BanjoSick]

Væsen is also an old game remade. Remember seeing it like 15 years ago.

[@AFnord]

@@BanjoSick Are you certain? To my knowledge Vaesen is based on an art book that was originally released in 2013

[@himurogentoku7117]

Coriolis is not Free League original idea??

[@AFnord]

@@himurogentoku7117 Nope, the first edition of Coriolis was released by Järnringen in 2008, 3 years before Free League was formed.

[@AFnord]

@@himurogentoku7117 Oh and a fun fact: Free League borrowed their name from a group in Coriolis (they would not write the second edition of Coriolis until 5 years after the company was founded). Järnringen got their name from a group in Mutant (though their first release was actually a new version of Mutant, which got its first release in 1984).

[@terrinils3165]

This is a work-for-hire project. AMC is hiring Free League to make a project under their direction. Edit: And expect AMC meddling when it comes to supplement releases. Delays and such, like lining up releases to concur with other Walking Dead products.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah. That's a depressing thought.

[@andrechapetta]

@@DaveThaumavore Its what pays the bills. The publishing business is pretty much about this. Diversifying the mix of products and cashing in as much and quick as possible. Paizo is a rare exception.

[@NicholasCotter]

If it is a work for hire, why is it on Kickstarter? If you’re right there’s something pretty dishonest here.

[@andrechapetta]

@@NicholasCotter Crowdfunding is also a customer developer/marketing strategy. To validate proof of demand.

[@terrinils3165]

@NicholasCotter Because kickstarter is extremely successful and it gets you money up front. For companies like Free League, it's more of a pre-order system. Backers believe there's less risk because of Free League's track record. They definitely dont need a kickstarter to get this game off the ground. But Free League will continue to use kickstarter because people continue to give them money up front through it. Even if the product is already finished and the stretch goals are already finished.

[@tomryan3768]

Year Zero feels perfect for horror games (I speak as a previous player in Forbidden Lands...which was not fun...it was grim and tiring though) but both Modiphius and Free League are stretching themselves too thin.

[@struckyCZ]

I'd also like to see more love given to the existing products of theirs and less new IPs. I've grown to love FL over the last year but meanwhile I'm also worriend to what ends will their product lines extend.

[@DaveThaumavore]

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that core rulebooks sell a whole lot better than their supplements, hence their constantly releasing new games.

[@struckyCZ]

@@DaveThaumavore On the other hand I've always heard/read an opinion that an RPG game is only as successful as it's supplements/adventures. But that might only apply to our local czech scene, which is very little.

[@opscontaylor8195]

@@DaveThaumavore True for most RPGs. That is why we get 'Edition Churn', cause the other option is the Free League model of, "Move on to new setting using same rules" or in some cases, both (looking at Pinnacle Entertainment there).

[@schemage2210]

I might be wrong in this, but I would have thought that considering that they are building products based off of a largely core default engine, creating supplements for products they put out should be much quicker and simpler affairs than say a D&D 5e splat book. Perhaps, though, they are chasing the next IP instead of building a fan base of those products they already have.

[@feralgamersincrpg]

The last Forbidden Lands Kickstarter feels really late and since releasing that Kickstarter they have had two others. They often release 3 KS projects a year before completing the first which has started causing delays, I understand they are excited by what they do but I feel it will suffer if they continue at this rate.

[@lostsanityreturned]

Roughly 7 months late assuming shipping starts end of next month, which isn't that bad all things considered.

[@DaveThaumavore]

@@lostsanityreturned Yeah, usually they're pretty punctual on delivery times. This is the first sign of troubles to come.

[@MacDhomnuill]

@@lostsanityreturned i frequently support small press companies on kickstarter and the latest on was only a month late. The four I have supported from big companies two were a couple months late due to the pandemic and the other two are 7 months late and over a year. Running multiple kickstarters with out fulfilling is a sign of an over extended business needing to bring in new cash so they can print previously promised product.

[@FreeLeaguePublishing]

Yes, the Book of Beasts Kickstarter for Forbidden Lands is indeed very late, for reasons explained on the Kickstarter. We're really sorry about that. Now, the products are all done and being shipped to the warehouses for fulfillment. However, this delay had no impact on later Kickstarters, two of which have already been delivered and two others are fully on track.

[@feralgamersincrpg]

@@FreeLeaguePublishing I think the last thing any of us want to see is for you to start running into trouble and be overstretched, you are after all one of the better RPG companies out there, so please see this as concern rather than moaning :)

[@nicklarocco4178]

I think it's worth mentioning that free league only publishes the one ring. Francesco Nepitello who designs it isn't an employee of free league. And when it comes to their previous IP games they're both based on movies that have long since come out. The second bladerunner is quite old, and I think the most recent Alien movie batch is done.

[@AFnord]

There is an Alien TV series in the works though. But speaking for Alien, that game is also mainly handled by an outsider who writes for them, Andrew E. C. Gaska. So they're not spreading themselves as thin as it seems.

[@opscontaylor8195]

@@AFnord True, that one is largely subcontracted out.

[@lostsanityreturned]

The thing I HATE about licensed games is that the license runs out and the game is pulled from all storefronts... and that is never cool imo. Look at Modiphious and how in the last two years both Mutant Chronicles 3e and Conan 2d20 have been pulled. :(

[@DeusMachina71]

I kinda hated the 2d20 system and so I'm kinda happy about this.. Hopefully the Conan license ends up in a system I'm more happy with and as for Mutant Chronicles I prefer the Savage worlds system. Tons of games go out of print not just licensed games and PDFs are eternal.

[@NefariousKoel]

Licensed games going out of print and being discontinued at some point is nearly a guarantee. At least the second-hand market can give you a decent price if it was popular and you later decide to liquidate your physical copies. Before a possible future iteration anyway. You pretty much have to plan on such media IP games to be out of print within a few years. Even in-house ones tend to disappear after awhile, although the demand isn't often as high afterward.

[@megasquidd]

I just got done reading Slaying the Dragon by Ben Riggs. It is the story of the downfall of TSR. When I see all of these new games being developed it reminds me of the TSR strategy of producing a glut of campaign settings hoping that something sticks.

[@zazb]

I wish I had seen this video before ordering from their online store! It's almost been three weeks and no sign from them, it really feels like they've overextended. I really hope the manage to get all their projects in order.

[@FaieEnigma]

So I bought The Walking Dead RPG, more of an impulse at the game store than anything else. But as I had pulled the plastic of and watched the book, a lot of thoughts passed my mind. The book is half the size (thick is perhaps better) than Alien and Blade Runner. This book cover the backstory, rules and a small intro scenario and how to play. I haven't started reading it yet but compared to Alien that has a good amount of pages around the games rules, examples, character building and text with scenes and such. This book doesn't have much. Just re-watched this video and when Dave points out about the amc tag and a speculation about some amc dude coming up with the title, and how the walking dead series kind of slides in the end. I just thought yeah and perhaps its even amc that trying to make a last squeeze of coins on the walking dead, and hired Free league but tied their hands behind the back. Anyways, going to be interesting to read through the book later (after finishing Scum and Villainy) perhaps the game is good and play groups really can drop their chars in their favourite country and cities just have a good play and completely ignore amc. Thanks for great videos btw, always nice to see your reviews.

[@alexacutioner]

Free League's US distributor has not managed well through the pandemic, and their online ordering of physical products has been very spotty for that reason. A simple online order of books took 2 months of follow ups to receive my order, and then a year later, I got an exact copy of the same order. My Kickstarter projects were also fumbled by the distributor, receiving pre-order and KS products after retail release. Their products are likely "indefinitely out of stock" as they have parted ways with the distributor and need to get a new one.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah there’s a lot of blame to go around. I hope they find a good distributor for U.S. sales soon.

[@scottwalker6947]

This is a case of, as a College teacher of mine said "How big can you get, before you go bad." I suppose it is possible that they could end up like C7 in the early days. Talk about a company that had too much on their plate. So, much so that they were putting out only 1 or 2 supplements for their product lines a year. On a rotating basis as well. Meaning you could be waiting 2 or 3 years for something new to come out for your favourite game. Haven't seen that with FL, as yet. With luck they won't go down that road.

[@kanseiyamazaru435]

Well they did the Alien series, so maybe Free League can try dipping their toes into The Predator franchise.

[@jackthemayor2518]

Honestly I just want them to pull back on the licensed content and push more support for their own in-house games. All of the expansions for mutant are out of stock and things from the flood is out of stock. They are shipping a forbidden lands Kickstarter soon and mutant is shipping the skirmish game later this year. I would like them to pump the brakes and get everything back in stock and maybe shift towards ip adjacent games that support their existing product lines.

[@DaveThaumavore]

I understand that it's tough to keep a bunch of stock. You have to print at least 200-250 copies of a book and might only sell 100 in a year, the rest of which you pay for its storage. But businesses figure out how to do this stuff all the time.

[@jackthemayor2518]

@@DaveThaumavore True but I think some of the stuff has been out of stock for a while and if they want to capitalize on people's interest in other game systems they really need to find a way to get those books back in stock.

[@FreeLeaguePublishing]

@@DaveThaumavore We try to keep as much as possible or our back catalogue in print, but unfortunately it's not possible to keep every book ever produced in stock forever. A few older products will need to be phased out at some point, that's just how it works. A reprint needs to be at least around 2000-3000 units to make sense. But to have book like Mutant: Mechatron out of print is definitely disappointing, even personally to me (Tomas) as one of the main writers of it.

[@cyberdan42]

I am worried about the expansion of Free League; this is definitely eating into the goodwill the company has developed, and it certainly has impacted me. I've made some orders and signed up to Kickstarters that have been delayed in fulfilment and accompanied by poor communication. This is potentially a genuinely serious problem.

[@brandonc272]

Thanks!

[@DaveThaumavore]

Thanks, Brandon! 🙏🏼

[@vincenzogatta8955]

I got my first rpg from Free League in january. Death in Space. It arrived in 5 days, also counting Saturday and Sunday when the courier was not working. I would say that my experience was excellent, perhaps because I live in Europe. Before Death in Space, I didn't know them, nor did I know the RPGs they publish, many of which I'm interested in trying now. Regarding the concerns expressed in your video, given the many RPGs they publish, and their diversity, I think they see themselves as very similar to a publishing house in the traditional sense. Not like Wizard or Paizo who focus on just one game (which however changes with each edition). I don't think they will have problems publishing many games, for the most part it will be at the authors the task and freedom of taking care of the rules and in some cases the artistic part, while at Free League the editorial part

[@admiraltiberius5231]

I have no experience with Free League but I'm always looking for a great zombie apocalypse game. Can't wait for you to review it.

[@DaveThaumavore]

You know it.

[@snieves4]

Bruh…. The publisher is gonna be fine. The Kickstarter hit 570k+. Everything they put out is quality.

[@himurogentoku7117]

Valid concern, Dave.

[@godfreemorals]

I know you're a fan, but I had a bad experience about trying to buy a copy of Death in Space which was much like your description of trying and failing to buy some books from them. When I asked for a date for how long the delay would be I got an 'about a month' reply, I did this twice before cancelling and tbf they refunded me incredibly quickly, but I'm not sure what the point of all these games is if no one can buy a copy! Maybe they're happy with pdf sales. Maybe their high quality printing standards is slowing them down. Perhaps they'll revert to the usual thin paper and shoddy boxes/maps to keep up with demand...

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah, that's a scary thought. They could always meet demand by cheapening their print products.

[@mella4376]

This is interesting and I'm hopeful they can balance more games with support for the existing ones, at the moment I'm just delighted there's a new Tales From The Loop supplement coming that I knew nothing about until the official announcement a few days ago, and I wouldn't want something like that to get cut in the future due to resource strain.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah, I'm getting the impression that there are too many projects brewing over there at this point and not enough people.

[@opscontaylor8195]

@@DaveThaumavore Which, happens when they 1) Grow from the Pandemic making easy to run over Discord and the like RPGs popular and 2) when post pandemic, WotC shoots themselves in the chest with their OGL crap, making even MORE people buy more games outside of WotC.

[@SamuraiMujuru]

When this was announced I was indifferent, since I'm not a walking dead fan. But then I thought about it. Sure, it's a license, but license or no there's one thing I can be certain of. It'll be a semi-grounded zombie apocalypse game, something honestly kind of absent from my personal library, and it will be built on an absolutely rock-solid mechanical foundation that will do SOMETHING really clever to make it feel very distinct. I'll fully admit, in a relatively short time I've gone from not knowing who the hell Free League is to being a dyed in the wool Free League true believer.

[@hehhehheh4588]

Don't Dead, Open Inside; the Roleplaying Game

[@DaveThaumavore]

Don't Dead, AMC Open Inside The Official AMC Roleplaying Game by AMC

[@DeusMachina71]

Even rpg companies need to pay their employees so I can't be upset with this. They have a good business model so I always feel fairly optimistic when it comes to their products and this isn't there first spin with an IP so I think they will do fine

[@Bearwiffa228]

Van dammes the Cyborg universe roleplaying game would be amazing... Not a great license to get, but amazing. I've created custom classes and homebrewed 5e to make that setting work.

[@shannonnome1236]

I did the same (exact) thing as you! On Black Friday last year, I didn't get a shipment notification, and when I got antsy about it (about 2 months later) and enquired, they said that their books were all out of stock, but the dice were shipping as we speak. I don't want to see Free League go down either!

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah, I heard the same story from a bunch of folks. Pretty bad misstep. I think the solution is to make it clear what is and isn't in stock.

[@FreeLeaguePublishing]

​@@DaveThaumavore To clarify this, we absolutely never intended to hide that something was out of stock. This is a purely technical issue - our webshop transfers orders to multiple warehouses, and there is no automatic reporting back of stock levels to the webshop. As soon as something is out of stock we flag it immediately in the webshop, but in some cases, some orders have been placed in the meantime. We are working to resolve this, with the help of a new logistics manager.

[@DaveThaumavore]

@@FreeLeaguePublishing That's good to hear. Thanks for weighing in on the issue!

[@Supsupwassupshorty]

I have the same problem with free league delivery I was supposed to get my stuff in a week then after a couple emails begin of February and now I haven't heard back in a few weeks

[@tomemaster1744]

This actually takes me back to when Batman: Arkham City got it’s “Game of the Year” Edition and the cover was hideous because it was literally just Accolade Quotes and Ratings to let you, the player know this was a “10/10 Video Game that really makes you feel like the Batman”.

[@marcusrouls7472]

I 100% agree with this. I like FL a lot. Alien was my first introduction to them. I found it the simplest system, yet with the complexity to resolve game issues without being overly crunchy. The Year Zero Engine is a great Universal System, that I felt could replace my years as a GURPS player and GM, with a less complex system. I would more than love for FL to produce a core YZE rulebook (I know there is the SRD). Then, all the IPs would make more sense as licensed supplements. Similar to how GURPS did supplements or even the new Everyday Heroes RPG. Problem is each time they publish something new, it's a full RPG. It uses the YZE with altered tweaks. Then they move on to a new IP. The previous IPs get little love and takes forever to get new content, because many of those same writers and designers are working on the next game in the pipeline. I feel they are starting to make many of the mistakes TSR did back in the 80s.

[@kylkim93]

I'm a "patient gamer", often picking up games years after their release. This year I got digital versions of ALIEN RPG, Forbidden Lands and Vaesen and am happy to go through those during the next year or so. So while I understand the worry about the company's future in gathering more and more IPs, I'm sure the company will still keep afloat with old and new customers still playing their previous games, as most of those continue to inhabit very specific and less-fulfilled niches.

[@horseman3222]

They should focus more on games they already published than chasing for the next IP... Love Death in Space :) Maybe support it a little bit more?

[@ALvIn0H-f6y]

It is not written by them, it is written by external people under the Free League Workshop label. Just like MÖRK BORG and Cy_Borg. What will be published for those mentioned games are 100 % up to the people behind the games.

[@horseman3222]

@@ALvIn0H-f6y Ah, did not know that :) Still, I would rather they focus on existing games :) Coriolis maybe? :)

[@ALvIn0H-f6y]

@@horseman3222 The Wake of Icons, the third part in the Mercy of the Icons campaign is released in April, and is on pre-order.

[@PANKURUCHA]

I don't think the number of games or their ip is all that concerning. I thought Aliens was going to be a shitty cash grab until I watched your reviews and now I own the entire line and love it. The real concern to me is the customer service failures. If they can't get their logistics and customer service in order that will hurt them more than anything.

[@DaveThaumavore]

I think with each new product they add to the line, they're spinning one more plate. That plate includes updates and their own sub-line of supplements that needs to be kept in stock. 12 such plates is different from 20-25 such plates. The out of stock issues with some of their books have illustrated some serious strains on their current order fulfillment infrastructure.

[@Nate-talks-design]

As someone who has worked in advertising and still works in the creative industry, that point about the junior execs made me lol because it’s so true. AMCs strategy towards the WD IP towards the end was: milk it ‘til its dry. A proper corpo America strategy. Some of the IP and creative decisions they made were super questionable. Thankfully FL still seem like fans of the content they publish. Whilst WD ain’t for me and I share your concerns, I’m confident they’ll be ok. I wish them (restrained) success.

[@johnpeterording]

Hi Dave, FL is a very committed company that has shown over and over again that they can combine production quality, accessibility and (game) design into a neat package. I have no worries that the upcoming TWD game won't be of the same quality as prior releases. But unlike Alien or Blade Runner, who continue to amaze to this day, zombies are overdone, TWD has finished it's run and the upcoming shows of the expanded universe need to find an audience and revitalize an aging IP that failed to recreate the magic of it's early seasons. The execs at AMC and FL seem to be confident which is good for the game, but what happens to FL's other game lines? My worries are that FL is spreading itself a bit too thin for continuing support of it's older or less popular IPs: Coriolis will probably be done after the next and final chapter of the Mercy of the Icons campaign is released, as well as the original Symbaroum (not the 5E port) after the upcoming book. Mutant hasn't seen a release in a long time (what happened to Ad Astra?) and some books won't see a reprint. The new books for Forbidden Lands have still not been published in print. I can see FL discontinuing some of their older, maybe not as financial successful IPs in the future to expand the more successful and newer game lines which would be a shame because I have a soft spot in my heart for their older titles. From a financial point of view I get it: After the initial game launch (CRB or box) people are less and less likely to buy supplements and licensed games with an established fan base all over the world can rake in lots of money. I also get that the last few years have not been easy for publishers (and customers, too). I just hope that FL will keep on walking the middle road and continue to develop and support their own game lines, publish indie darlings and develop the occasional licensed big IP game to show the industry how it's done. I also hope they hire more people.

[@richardextall2002]

You don't need the Walking Dead RPG to play a Walking Dead game. You just need an adaptable RPG system and your imagination.

[@silvarknite7]

I had the same thing on black friday. ordered a ton of alien and forbidden lands stuff. Nothing for 2 months. I emailed asking what happened and they explained it was one of the FL books that was out of stock holding everything up.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah, that sucks. Pretty simple solution, and probably something that can be automated.

[@FreeLeaguePublishing]

@@DaveThaumavore We would love that! So far, our logistics system is no automated like that, I'm afraid. We are working on improving it though.

[@silvarknite7]

@@FreeLeaguePublishing That is good news! Having room to grow and improve is a good thing! And while the books came a little late, I am really enjoying them!

[@TonyLS9A]

Agreed with all points, Dave. As much as I’ve loved Free League, recent issues with KS deliveries and the same concern over continued support has me looking askance at their decisions. It appears that both their distribution (RIP Funagain) and customer outreach capabilities are strained. They also used to do fairly regular updates, but fell silent towards the end of last year. “Tomas, if you’re okay, blink twice.”

[@FreeLeaguePublishing]

I'm here! :) Sorry for the lack of monthly KZbin updates last fall, we'll try to get them up to speed again. :)

[@cyberdan42]

Gaming companies generally need to constantly release material to remain profitable, I'd prefer a plethora of games than a glut of expansion books that creates system bloat. It does worry me that the licensed marketing for The Walking Dead is heavily leaning into AMC and not Free League. The question is how much Free League outlay to secure the license.

[@hungryewok1684]

remember West End Games? Their first IP RPG was Ghostbusters, then hit it big with Star Wars, then they over extended with Indiana Jones, Men In Black, Xena, Hercules, and Tales from the Crypt. Then there was their "Master Book" concept. Should of just stuck with Star Wars, maybe Indiana Jones. I know there were other factors in WEG losing Stat Wars IP and going under, but having all those other IPs didn't help

[@opscontaylor8195]

Another thing to consider @DaveThaumavore - Pinnacle Entertainment Group has a TON of their catalog also licensed materials for Savage Worlds (RIFTS©, Pathfinder, Flash Gordon, Lankhmar, Fear Agent, Goon, The 6th Gun) and they seem to be doing fine.

[@adrianwebster6923]

I definitely experienced the out of stock issue in 2022, I ordered a forbidden lands bundle that was marked as in stock but it wasnt and it took 8 months before the entire order was fulfilled. customer service did respond to my inquires after some intial bumps but without stock they couldnt do much.

[@DaveThaumavore]

8 months is rough. I couldn’t get them to respond to my emails until I demanded a cancellation. Then they responded by happily canceling and refunding within 24 hours. Very strange.

[@adrianwebster6923]

@@DaveThaumavore yeah, they offered to cancel my order but I really wanted the books and didnt want to risk falling to the back of the line in a future print run. I got everything eventually it just came piecemeal as supplies arrived.

[@andreazanon5995]

Thank you for making this video. I pointed out the same concerns to some friends a couple of days ago

[@dreamakuma]

My guess on the Universe thing is a way of saying that the game could cover the several different places and timelines for the walking dead's different shows. That being said I avoid licensed games like a plague. West end games had tons of fun games with great licenses that had very little support and eventually contributed to killing the company.

[@beetlejuss]

I come from the future, Free League is doing more than alright, the detractors continue playing D&D and TWD fans are enjoying the game or customizing it to their own.

[@DaveThaumavore]

I reviewed TWD and it was a great game.

[@benscarbeau]

Agree with all your points. Devil's advocate on the 'AMC' piece it could just be a matter of the licensing language. AMC is partnering with Free League so the license is based on AMC's license for the AMC TV 'universe' of shows and probably explicitly NOT on the comic book. So perhaps that is just the legalese that has to be included to draw that line on which property this is licensed on. Interesting that the license AMC has obviously has enough wiggle room for them to make games based on their show, which clearly it does based on the prior board games they have released.

[@Acmegamer]

I've been worried for a while about them overextending themselves. They need to put more effort into supporting and expanding their current lines. It looks like they've got a new shipper for their USA material as an aside. Funagain Logistics shut down, which is probably a good thing considering how bad they were and were hurting the reputation of Free League due to their bad service.

[@bearthegenxgm]

Free League's a great company and yes we need more like them, WotC could take a page out of Free League's book for sure! :) Great video, thanks for sharing.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Thanks!

[@Humphreysfox]

if FL ever hires diversity readers though I'm out lol

[@lazarusmetcalfe2423]

I just found out about it as a huge TWD fan (fan of zombies since I was a kid), and I am excited/hopeful for a great zombie RPG. I do agree the name is off, but otherwise, I’m not too worried.

[@thefrenchspy81]

I am here for the Cyborg RPG. Im pretty sure that's all I want now.

[@nickenquist3788]

I like Free League a lot, but definitely can see this being concerning. This jump into IPs reminds me of Telltale Games. Thankfully Free League makes good products and I think they’ve been pretty communicative for their Dragonbane kickstarter (which I did back). So we’ll see. Would hate for them to crumble.

[@TheBarnBards]

Great insights, Dave. I just wanted to pipe in and say "Cyborg" is pure gold.

[@wylde_hunter]

Good video. I too share your concern about Free League expanding too quickly.Their quality and design are currently top-notch. Walking Dead Universe looks to be another winner. I like the concepts of Humanity Points and base buildings. Can't wait for this one

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah, I backed it. I'm looking forward to it.

[@ste1bro]

I love licensed IP games (in fact, they're probably my favourites), and I have to admit, my one and only thought after seeing the Walking Dead announcement was "Fantastic! We're going to get the best zombie game ever!" And Free League being Free League, they've already as good as said, 'But feel free to use the rules for your favourite zombie franchise". Which is what I'll do (I have zero interest in TWD)

[@ste1bro]

The biggest shock of all in this video was discovering that Free League have detractors!

[@neuzd]

Interesting take. On a personal note, your order inquiry might have been an occasional issue, as I was in your identical situation (ordered an out of stock item, Mork Borg, during BF) but when I asked they responded quickly and so I patiently waited for restock, and 2 months later I was holding all my books.

[@cgabriel7311]

I would 100% play an MiB RPG, especially with a PARANOIA or West End Ghostbusters comedy kind of vibe.

[@DaveThaumavore]

I knew someone would say this.

[@cgabriel7311]

@@DaveThaumavore 🤣🤣🤣 don't threaten me with a good time

[@DiomedesRangue]

I think the last of us TV show might give this one a bump.

[@mohnkern]

I have Aliens, Blade Runner, the One running, and The Walking Dead games. I honestly was disappointed by Aliens, Blade Runner is good, The One Ring is ok, and I've just started reading the Walking dead, but it looks good. I was heartened to see that they are starting to release additional Blade Runner content, because it's my favorite of the set so far. It gives me hope they will continue to release Blade Runner content.

[@gregbruni2212]

Producing lots of different games is not a winning strategy nor the answer for any company. Producing games and then supporting them WELL is what most gamers appreciate. Pinnacle entertainment/ Great White Games back in the late '90s and early 2000 years, were shotgunning out different games. NONE of them were supported well and it angered folks who liked particular titles. I hope Free League does not go down that path.

[@caseygoddard]

Tom Clancy presents Tom Clancy in Tom Clancy's Universe: The Game!

[@SigfridSWE]

I understand and agree with what your saying... I love Alien the rpg, its amazing! If you should do a licensed game thats how you do it!

[@paavohirn3728]

I share your worry! So far so good but they're treading in tricky waters.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah, it's getting a little worrisome.

[@Humphreysfox]

love your content. I am of the same mind WRT Free League. I also have had missing orders/shipping woes and lately my last cancellation was never acknowledged. Still LOVE their stuff and as long as I get my material or they make it right I am a patient person 🙂

[@reidurbjorn]

I couldn't agree more with this assessment. FL is a fantastic company, but I think they're overburdening themselves, especially with pop culture IPs. I've had some recent issues with them myself, but I really want to see them succeed!

[@valorin5762]

Yeeeah... The Walking Dead lost me after a few seasons, when it started not to be about zombies anymore. But I actually like Zombie apocalypse stuff a lot, so I'll look into this rulebook and maybe grab it. I just fear it will run with the Year Zero Engine, and that's immediately a red flag for me. But Free League's books are incredibly beautiful an all the lore content and other stuff is very well written. I own Alien, Blade Runner and Forbidden Lands for that reason. The One Ring is just almost perfect.

[@AverageTESEnjoyer5783]

I definitely caught myself eyerolling as I saw the announcement of the Walking Dead...

[@jasonandkrishandy-kraus123]

What an insightful analysis, Dave. History has proven that IP-based games are always iffy and don't have long lives unfortunately. I hope Free League can change that, but your points are well made. FL's absolutely knocked it out of the park with Aliens, Blade Runner, and The One Ring (all great games), and I expect the same with Walking Dead. But that's a lot of IPs to support, especially given that none of those games can be supported by the Free League Workshop (and an army of free talent trying to make a few bucks). So long-term viability of those game lines are entirely dependent on what FL produces. That's a lot of irons in the fire.....

[@DaveThaumavore]

Ah that’s a good point about third party content.

[@jasonandkrishandy-kraus123]

@@DaveThaumavore I think the Blade Runner license will be particularly problematic because FL has made the game so dependent on handouts and photos to study for investigative leads. BR can be run like Gumshoe with core clues, etc, but the BR starter kit set the bar for how the game was to be played. If FL doesn't produce continuous content, then what do you have? It differs from The One Ring and Aliens in that major way.

[@AtrusGambit]

My friend and I both suffered major fulfillment issues from them on different products

[@svenk5221]

That Game was a no brainer for free league and Max. It is a Great entree to the Hobby for Brand new players. I love it already. Its a wonderful setting for rpg. And I think with YZE Games you need more options. Character progression and super long campaigns is not what this engine is build for.

[@sourcespores2]

I imagine it's costly to release very good quality products and so they need to make that money with less risk, even if it means compromising interesting and creative ideas or being exploited for their consistent high product quality. I just hope they're in a transitory period in the business model and will get back to making great stuff soon enough once they make some lower risk money and get a better hold on their stuff. We just have to hold out hope! Great review, if you could call it that!

[@kevingreenlee7070]

There may have only been one good movie, but I would actually very much enjoy a Men in Black rpg and certainly moreso than AMC's The Walking Dead from AMC by Free League AMC

[@artistpoet5253]

You might be overthinking it. AMC is just being hyper about their ownership. It's no different than Disney slapping "Disney's (this-or-that)" on everything they licence. As for FL's slew of games and how they'll manage them? Maybe they'll be the IP game system? It could be a catalog of fan games with no intent towards longevity outside of the initial release. I mean, licenses aren't cheap and 'current thing' changes pretty quickly. I bought the Alien and Bladerunner games just for the source material. I really have no intention on playing either as I use a much simpler rule set.

[@F2t0ny]

I was pretty concerned too, but if it's good, might be the system I use to run The Last of Us

[@qarsiseer]

That exact issue is happening with me when I ordered Forbidden Lands in January 🙃 It was for a sale too!

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah, I hope they can tighten up their operation. They're probably losing a lot of customers this way.

[@RPGImaginings]

It wasn't a sale. They called it a sale. They used it to generate capital, and you're the one doing them the favor by having to wait. It would be like going into a restaurant and paying for food that they haven't bought the ingredients for yet. It is dishonest business practice. I'm concerned that the hobby is enabling this behavior.

[@MacDhomnuill]

Same here, ordered the Raven bundle on 2 JAN and it hasn’t shipped. If I hadn’t started emailing them weekly after waiting three week with no word I would never have know multiple items were out of stock with no restock date. I will give them another week and then I am reverse charging on my card.

[@FreeLeaguePublishing]

@@RPGImaginings Totally get that it's disappointing when something like this happens, but it is 100% absolutely NOT our intentional business practice. As explained in another reply above, we absolutely NEVER intended to hide that something was out of stock. This is a purely technical issue - our webshop transfers orders to multiple warehouses, and there is no automatic reporting back of stock levels to the webshop. As soon as something is out of stock we flag it immediately in the webshop, but in some cases, some orders have been placed in the meantime. We are working to resolve this, with the help of a new logistics manager.

[@laboratoryrack6488]

3:40 At the end?? More like after season 3 or 4...

[@DaveThaumavore]

True. lol

[@scarscratch]

Hey Dave, I'd be interested in seeing your thoughts on the ShadowDark RPG just launched on kickstarter. Great video BTW!

[@7mmScout]

Hmm. Maybe put some adventure supplements out for TOR, Symbaroum. I like tge idea of waling desd...but more materials for games, please

[@timothyyoung2962]

I'm just going to throw this out here... but... I actually LIKED Skeletor in the old Masters of the Universe movie.

[@tobormax]

I am not as well acquainted with Free League as I am with other publishers. I played in an Alien game at a Con and really liked it, but that's about it. I'm not sure how big of a company Free League is, but if they need to put out a few licensed games here and there to keep the lights on so be it. That being said, I find the idea of this particular license to be a lukewarm prospect at best. The Walking Dead was a pretty good comic that I eventually cooled on simply because the overall narrative seemed to fall into the same creative beats over and over again. Some thing with the TV show except I got tired of it even more quickly. At the end of the day the Walking Dead is a very basic story about humans being crappy to each other with some occasional fights against the most vanilla version of zombies imaginable. There are a staggering number of game systems out there that cover the whole zombie angle, so what is going to be special about Image Comic's Robert Kirkman's AMC's The Walking Dead The Universe The Game AMC? I don't want to yuck anyone's yum, but there is almost literally no reason for this product to exist other to exploit what has to be a dwindling fanbase for a media franchise who's best years are behind it. I think there is more to be said about why this licensed product publishing model seems to be working for Free League and why so many developers before them have gone down the licensed game death spiral (I'm looking at you Margaret Weiss productions). Is Kickstarter the secret sauce? I'm very curious to see what the future holds for Free League.

[@DaveThaumavore]

That's pretty rough. Sorry you went through all that B.S.

[@WayneHumfleet]

I think Free League is falling into same Trap that West End Games fell into in the 90's. Licensing anything and everything. Necroscope? Tales from the Crypt? Species? Tank Girl? Their Star Wars License was their crown jewel. Soon after they released the DC Comics RPG, and Hercules and Xena RPG, they went under. Not because of the games, but bad management, but I'm sure it wasn't cheap getting all of those licenses.

[@DaveThaumavore]

That is a mostly awful list of IPs. I didn’t realize they made all that garbage.

[@pallenda]

Interesting video. I was wondering a bit about something a bit like this but with Monte Cook Games. They are soon doing a new crowd fundraising for a 2nd radioshow/podcast based TTRPG. I know I am uncultured but for both of them I went "never heard of that". (Old Gods of Appalachia, and soon The Magnus Archives.)

[@GldnMnky]

Neither had I but I was surprised to see how much funding Old Gods of Appalachia got, and it got me into the podcast. I highly recommend it.

[@pallenda]

@@GldnMnky Yeah that was also a surprise to me. :) I am glad that it seems like a good fit for many people, personally it doesn't interest me. Maybe it's the genre, or that I don't have the time to get into a podcast. :)

[@darrenhardy9005]

Universe refers to the other title’s such as fear the walking dead

[@DaveThaumavore]

This is known.

[@ReadingAde]

Free league is doing too much IP. I also had an experience like yours where I ordered stuff and never got any shipping notification. Took 3 weeks to hear something back. Customer service was very kind and helpful but still. I’m worried that forbidden lands will be dropped for Dragonbane

[@Jeffrywith1e]

How is Modifius handling all of their licenses?

[@timofkings5173]

Very badly…

[@guillermorobles887]

at this point im just waiting for the Mad men rpg

[@Redlady1917]

I wish that they supported their games at a more rapid pace rather than pumping out new IP sourcebooks. Or made some more homegrown settings.

[@Azerod]

Got the game, it's great.

[@DaveThaumavore]

Agreed. Review coming out next week.

[@Jeefrs]

Cyborg rpg? Yes please

[@DaveThaumavore]

I knew someone would say it!

[@kevoreilly6557]

Just add zombicide and matchbox cars ….good to go