Is Salvage Union the best OSR mech game? - RPG Review

[@DaveThaumavore]

Support the channel by joining my Patreon! www.patreon.com/thaumavore Sign up for my newsletter! bit.ly/ThaumavoreNewsletter

[@blainetaggart6736]

Thank you for sharing. You are the number one place I to go to for descriptions and reviews of RPGs! Lancer rules intimidated me and it's tactical gaming overshadows the role-playing aspects. My first RPG was Robotech from way back in the 1980's, we played "theater of the mind" style. Still,it was all about mech battles and later we moved on to games where character interaction had more value. I think Salvage Union could be the thing that could get me back into playing a mech RPG. Also, the idea of mechs in a scrappy post-apocalyptic setting has grown on me.

[@spuckett2489]

SU is 100% TOTM, and often starts with a job offer. Sometimes it's helping out a community trying to scrape out an existence in the wastes, sometimes it's a corpo, etc. With that said, VERY few things are required content - you can make or hack just about anything once you have a feel for stuff.

[@the-odder-finnish-guy]

I was so close on Kickstarting this originally, but now, well, I'm gonna be buying it anyways. Just awesome.

[@KarmaSpaz12]

Remember, if you have a giant chonky monster with lots of HP your party doesn't have to fight it continuously. Maybe the monster is rampaging through a city and topples a building between it and the players meaning they have to get back to it later.

[@samurguybriyongtan146]

Or maybe it flies. away or flees and pops up again later? The focus of a big chunk of the campaign.

[@Nitram4392]

Or the monster in more of an eviromental hazard you should prob. avoid.

[@cocoavelour800]

Had my players fight a kraken once but gave it's tentacles stat blocks and treated them like individual monsters instead and they fought the main body later.

[@TableplantGames]

I broke my rule on preordering for salvage union and I don't regret it. The presentation is excellent, the mech designs are awsome, and the customisation is simple but still feels impactful. That last part is esspecially important since being able to customise your big stompy robot to your hearts content is a big draw to mech games like Mechwarrior, Armoured Core, and Lancer, so I was happy to see that SU's mech building was simple, but still manages to prompt more than a few intresting decisions on what to bolt on, and what to leave in the 'Bay. Also, the designs remind me of HAWKEN's mechs (I miss that game 😞)

[@sefatsilverlake3816]

Bro I loved HAWKEN too ahead of its time.

[@TableplantGames]

@@epone3488 I have played it: I was part of of a open table campaign hosted by Layline Press on their discord. I was a (slightly pyromanical) mechanic with a mech created using the rules in the book. I don't think we had all of the roles covered in all of our games but it still worked realitively well (apart from falling off a few cliffs but that was more down to poor judgement). Overall, I enjoyed myself. While I understand the issue about the flat D20 rolls, and I should really have put a caveat in my original comment that it is very rules light, I'm not entirely sure about roles being overly restrictive considering my experience with the game.

[@spuckett2489]

​@@TableplantGamesIt's likely we played together; I played "Mother" Sara Homestead. One key point to make about SU's KS campaign is that when Leyline realized an A5 book would be too thick and unwieldy, they redesigned the 300+ page core book for bigger pages and changed to, IIRC, B5 format. All of the art gets more room to breathe, the core book is still a delightfully chonky tome, etc. Leyline opted for quality over cost and that's a key point to make here.

[@ЄвгенКорякін]

Tiny Mecha and Monsters is another good rules-light game, scalable from narrative TotM to tactics on a grid. Mechs and kaijus are built using basically the same rules, just with different tables. If you want to play out something like Pacific Rim, or that one episode of LD&R, without getting bogged down by rules - this one's for you.

[@deProfundisAdAstra]

This sounds incredible, and is precisely the kind of thing I've been looking for for a loooong time. Thanks so much for showing it off! Buying it now!

[@_mawburn]

I freaking love the way this game reads and it's definitely going to make it to my real life table at some point. I'm sad you didn't mention how well it combines genres. It mixes Post Apoc + Diesel Punk + Cyberpunk themes really really well.

[@juauke]

Looks real good, I love the setting and the simplicity of the system! Another one for my wishlist!

[@himurogentoku7117]

Salvage Union is a lovely game!

[@opscontaylor8195]

"I know that there are more Mech RPGs out there than just Lancer but that's just one of the highest profile ones out there..." BattleTech: "Am I nothing to you?"

[@mariodosantos]

In Dave's defence Battletech is a wargame first and an RPG second.

[@opscontaylor8195]

@@mariodosantos True, but it does have two different RPGs tied to it (the HEAVY crunch A Time of War or the more lightweight and narrative Mechwarrior Destiny). That said, really digging the vibe on this one. Might have to see if I can get a copy.

[@cybermerlyn2]

@@mariodosantos Great point, most of the OG rpgs were wargames before they were ttrpgs.

[@Riley-uy5pe]

a person of taste and culture

[@TheOldDragoon]

It might have been a wagame first, but we have done several long-running MechWarrior RPGs, and are currently running one, in which most of the time is out-of-cockpit doing character driven stuff. The battles are sort of punctuation marks to the roleplay.

[@Demonskunk]

This seems like an interesting time. Might need to check it out.

[@csgunn007]

I have to remind my wife to "not be intimidated by its thickness."

[@raff3486]

lmao

[@kuraishinobi]

😂

[@kornwallsdiceandadvice3538]

Yea she always gets nervous when I pull out my DCC core rulebook

[@kornwallsdiceandadvice3538]

Yea I she always gets nervous when I pull out my DCC core rulebook

[@Oðrun]

Thank you for reminding me that I was planning on picking this game up. Like, tomorrow.

[@bilskirnir_]

Implus bought. Books look ascethically nice. And I've always like OSR style games like TROIKA. Finally the less laser focus on combat for a Mecha game looks neat.

[@AxiomsNArrows]

Have Played, and run the Mech system as an addon to other systems. Easy to learn.

[@olivergre1054]

Do you have some tips for beginners who want to do exactly that?

[@AxiomsNArrows]

@@olivergre1054 Dont get caught up in how systems don't fit together, just use them for what they do well

[@megasquidd]

Great video, Dave.. the collector in me loves you, but my wallet hates you...

[@BX-advocate]

This seems like a Into the Breach RPG. The idea of the players controlling the crawler also is interesting and I think I like it, also it makes sense as a means to get new player characters.

[@a15godzilla]

If an enemy is basically godzilla, then youre not meant to mess with it

[@walterw9829]

I backed the Kickstarter and am waiting to play it with my group.

[@mateofantasma]

This is a great review. I supported the Kickstarter for the art and layout mostly. I also find their class design very interesting . Have not played with it yet but just love to look at the book and read it for inspiration.

[@Kanakadea]

I tried really hard to like this game-as well as Lancer. But it just made me want to play Battletech instead.

[@baitposter]

As someone who's never played a mech ttrpg, what are a couple key differences between each?

[@chrisessick7192]

@@baitposteridk about lancer, but I’ve played the battletech RPG before. It’s… a lot. At least from what I remember, it’s a very heavy, detailed ruleset more in the style of the Warhammer or call of Cthulhu. It’s also BASICALLY separate from the actual mech combat battletec rules. So basically you are playing two separate games, one in the mechs and one outside them.

[@ehansultan]

what’s your issue with lancer? I’m interested in trying it, are there any big issues?

[@marcar9marcar972]

@@ehansultanSo two issues. It’s a game that doesn’t allow for a lot of creativity. Like all the creativity is in the rule book and character creation vs action the player can decide to spontaneously take so combat ends up like D&D where the player takes the same action each turn (like wizard casting fireball). Second issue is its communist propaganda.

[@shinobiighost6946]

​@@ehansultan Giving money to tankies is just wrong, it's insulting to them.

[@ChrisKChandler]

This review was really really well done, thank you!

[@timothyyoung2962]

I love Lancer's lore and art... big fan of Kill Six Billion Demons... but I just can't get into ANY game... RPG, board games, or mini game... where I need an app to build a character/mech/whatever because it is so complicated. I just can't.

[@DaveThaumavore]

It’s a joy for some, nightmare for others.

[@_mawburn]

I don't think you NEED Comp/Con for Lancer, but it's just so well done and helps curve the crunch for a few parts of the game it's hard to not use it. Especially for players who don't read the books fully.

[@obamabiden]

to be honest as someone who owns a lot of mech rpgs I'd say it's a lot simpler than the average older mech RPG, it just unlike those games recognises that it isn't really any fun to play them without substantial computer support (Obviously its much more complicated than a pared-down storygame style mech rpg like armour astir or apocalypse frame, but that's cheating slightly) it's also as a side benefit one of the most likely games for you to be able to convince people who only play 5e with DNDbeyond to give a try lol

[@quinnharrison9695]

You don’t need the app. Character sheets are a thing. That being said, the app makes it very easy to make a character.

[@PhilKingstonByron]

Nice Review - well done.

[@marcbenson1969]

Thank you for this video. i was unaware of this game and have now purchased it.

[@TheBoboni]

Immediate buy, thanks man!

[@Wurgebloarf]

I am sold on this, that setting is brilliant.

[@nimlouth]

This one is a certified banger, it hits absolutely everything I love. It's way too awesome!

[@StrangeObscureStories]

Great coverage. thanks

[@sergeigen1]

can we appreciate the layouts and nice graphic design of the book ? chefs kiss

[@santiagofantoni2643]

No.

[@Cardith]

Been loving this game, it’s awesome

[@Shiyaku93]

This looks fantastic. Definitely going on my list... along with Cy_Borg, into the Odd, Alien RPG, Mothership and CoC

[@mariodosantos]

Great production value and art. I'm still not a 100% sold on the simple d20 mechanic. You don't add bonuses to any roll no matter how skilled you are. You only roll when there is uncertainty of outcome so its mostly an "oracle roll". I believe its a self imposed paradigm I have to get over to play this game yet its still the main reason i haven't pulled the trigger on it.

[@kyang321]

I was also surprised that it was just a flat roll. I would assume this is where it leans on the "rulings over rules" aspect. It's up to the GM to adjust the side effects of the outcomes based on the GM's interpretation of the situation and abilities of the PC.

[@himurogentoku7117]

​@@kyang321That's a great insight! The GMs should adjust the consequences of the roll. Thank you, Kyang!

[@josephkrausz9557]

This is the same problem with the original Quest. My suggestion would be to alter the possible outcomes, using something like position/effect from BitD or what Chris McDowall writes about in regard to difficulty in Into the Odd. Basically, the possibilities of success are judged at the outset by the GM.

[@spuckett2489]

I mean, character skill is reflected in the abilities they get that allow them to try things, so being able to attempt it at all because you took a skill IS the bonus, in a way. Does that make sense?

[@josephkrausz9557]

@@spuckett2489 I've never played Salvage Union, but in Quest this was indeed a problem in cases where the special skills weren't relevant. Every character was exactly the same. And in some adventures, certain character classes' skills would be entirely irrelevant, or at least the skills that were chosen by the players, so the character wouldn't really have anything special about them mechanically at all.

[@christianschweda2530]

Never heard of it, sounds very interesting, will take a closer look. Thanks for sharing!

[@Jescribano1]

Pretty interesting one, would love to read the manual!

[@Delmworks]

Mech combat without 30 pages of excess rulings? Gimme!

[@razorboy251]

Sold! Picking up the physical book + PDF right now! Might pick up adventures later through the affiliate link (curiously the adventures seem cheaper on DTRPG than on publisher's site, maybe that's just me though?).

[@chromeego7903]

The ones on DTRPG are just the PDF the ones on the website include the physical book too.

[@nutherefurlong]

It's that dividing line that made me wary of Lancer. Initially I was a bit wary of this game, feeling maybe it was too light, but it does seem to have a lot more going on than I thought based on the free preview they had. Was surprised to learn it was related to Quest. Does the game offer variations on the one resolution mechanism, modifiers or altered results, or is that table true the whole time?

[@spuckett2489]

That table is true all the time, unless you make a ruling. SU is deceptively rules-light - when I made a PDF of classes, skills, & pilot gear for Tech Levels 1&2, and Tech Level 1&2 mechs and equipment, I apologized to the players for how big both PDFs were (something like 40-50 pages EACH), but those choices expand player agency. Each mech chassis allows for a LOT of player choices about loadouts, and the loadout alters what you can do. At one point early on in the playtest, the party was getting ready to fight a bunch of mutated ants. I asked Panny if, since I had a rigging arm on my mech, I could lift an ant corpse and throw it to draw their attention and let us pass. That just happened, no roll required.

[@leylinepress]

Thanks for the great review of Salvage Union!

[@fun_kay]

This system seems to deal with lancers scale and reasource issues quite well

[@claudiaborges8406]

Im surprised the custom dice don’t have icons for every type of result instead of numbers

[@DaveThaumavore]

Indeed! That was a missed opportunity.

[@Pyromanemac]

These OSR games look super interesting and Id love to give some a try. But, i dont think my group would be interested in a campaign. Can these be done as a few hour one shots?

[@DaveThaumavore]

Yeah the rules are quite simple. One shots are totally feasible.

[@feral_orc]

Well as long as I don't have to do Lancer combat but still get customization I'll probably be happy.

[@danmorgan3685]

This game does look interesting.

[@kalleendo7577]

Awesome!!

[@enxman7697]

Does the provided soundtracks can be used in actual plays, or one risk copyrights strikes?

[@DaveThaumavore]

You’ll have to ask Greg. Maybe contact him through Bandcamp. gregillidge.bandcamp.com/

[@enxman7697]

@@DaveThaumavore thanks!

[@raff3486]

Great review

[@endorsedbryce]

Don't know if it's appropriate to comment this hear. But i feel need the do a shout out for "battle century G" if anyone wants a low crunch mecca game. That's more about over the top anime BS then anything else. It's Core mechanic that really grabbed me is "tension" The tension level goes up every round. all combatants add tension to their attacks and the abilities. Some abilities can only be used once but are multiplied by tension encouraging people to hold on to them for as long as possible. This results and blows becoming more and more powerful the longer combat goes on And you get some wild comebacks as you're low on health PC suddenly pulls out an ability that deals tons of damage on round eight. This does a shockingly good job of emulating the anime style action thay inspired the game.

[@TheTwyker]

This is straight up the best mech game for me. Lancer is too crunchy and dense and has too little RP supported by the rules and Beam Saber is on the other side of the spectrum. Salvage Union feels like a more grounded approach with quick rules but surprising depth once you get more into it.

[@2isaacisaac]

Love it!

[@kornwallsdiceandadvice3538]

Wait I could reflavor this as power rangers!

[@harrigantube]

Brilliant game, glad to see it get some love!

[@PotatoPhoenix]

Contrarian that i am now i realy wan us an osr styl rlset to run a campaign in this setting where the players are a littl mor mundane

[@Firebringer121]

@18:56 Oh fumble you! (This is meant to be tongue in Cheek) You know what they meant. Honestly I could see rigging up a table for things your Crawler wants or needs, and/or hack in something that can take away some of the players control if the group wants deeper interaction on that level.

[@tomoyuukinue2185]

cool. a mech game that is not crunchy

[@_mawburn]

I wouldn't say it's crunchy, but I think it's a little more complicated than Dave made it seem.

[@8lackz]

I am on a Mech Hack campaign while ghe game is good, the options is lacking

[@blingusblongus161]

I want mecha hack to be better than it is, you can make cool builds but progression is lacking

[@popcorn6310]

When showing pictures of an rpg book do you have to ask for permission?

[@DaveThaumavore]

Under U.S. law, not under the Fair Use Doctrine. You’ll have to google it, though. Too much to type.

[@popcorn6310]

@@DaveThaumavore thanks

[@leylinepress]

We at least have no issue with anyone using images from our RPG books for reviews, actual plays and any other coverage.

[@bearnaff9387]

@@leylinepress You do have issues with "cooties by association" ethics and taking credit from people, though.

[@ChrisKChandler]

​@@bearnaff9387, hahaha, this is a curious place to make your courageous stand and make unsubstantiated and subjective accusations. But hey, it's the Internet, what can we really expect when it comes to quality discourse?

[@loconius]

You forgot the link to the soundtrack :-(

[@DaveThaumavore]

kzbin.info/aero/OLAK5uy_m8SIaa02-a-zELA66FuLZURP9XSzIY4Js&si=BfHjjb624Y6LExzO

[@johnconstantine433]

In LANCER the story/adventure DO matter tho. Why you fight is more important than the fight itself in combat focused games

[@trollpatsch.]

Maaan.... this sounds so fun that I fear I'll buy it and have it gather dust in my shelf anyway... Edit: I bought it.........

[@talon12020]

Maybe it's just me but this seems way more suited to be played as a CRPG than a TTRPG. It actually reminds me quite a bit of Mech Engineer on PC.

[@TheBardSM]

Other than the rulings/rules, which is not something exlusive to any system, there is nothing about this that is OSR.

[@St_M_]

Thank you for referencing the OG Mech Daddy game at least in passing rather than pretending the inexplicably popular anime trash ghetto mecha "rpg" is all there is.

[@samuelbourassa5304]

My interest in Leyline Press and their product vanished when they fired an editor (and removed his credits) because they discovered that he had worked on Lamentations of the Flame Princess before. I never played it nor do I have interest in it, but this whole affair and their response made me run the other way.

[@iank1419]

According to LLP, they fired the freelancer because they were “currently” working on LotFP. The owner of LotFP is a gross dude who defended a really toxic abuser when everyone else in the community realized he needed to be kicked out. Plenty of people worked on LotFP before it that stuff came out, and cut ties as a result. If I was Leyline Press, *I* sure wouldn’t want my company associated with abusers or their enablers.

[@samuelbourassa5304]

@@iank1419 That's not what I had read/heard at the time of the controversy, but it's possible. And I know from hearsay that the owner of LotFP has a terrible reputation. But Leyline had apologized for not vetting the editor before bringing him on board, which to me reinforced the idea that the editor *had* worked with LotFP. And even if they did, I understand deciding not to work with someone anymore if they're actively working with someone that does things against your values. But I was shocked at the idea of removing credits for work that was done. But I'd be open to clarification as if they kept his work or not. If they did, he should absolutely credited.

[@bobbyhazard3919]

@@iank1419how did they “defend” said person? They cut ties with that individual and stopped selling their work.

[@iank1419]

I agree that generally speaking, people deserve to credited for their labor regardless of their moral character, just like they deserve to be paid. OTOH, I think it’s possible that the editor in question agreed to have their name removed from the credits. Because then the alternative is LLP specifically naming them and saying “John Doe did work on this book but we think he sucks and isn’t representative of our values”. But there are a number of details here that are not public (or at least, easy to find), so it’s hard to say for sure.

[@iank1419]

Except after they supposedly cut ties with him, they published a book called *Zak Has Nothing To Do With This Book*, which was a thinly-veiled defense of the individual, probably ghostwritten by them. Also, that guy’s books are up for sale on DriveThru again, with LotFP listed as the publisher. So yeah, I have no interest in giving that company more of my money, or associating with people who do.

[@sandman6088]

Nah, screw Leyline Press for not giving credit to one of their editors just because they happened to have done editing work for some risqué games. It's tough to make a living in the TTRPG industry, and it's shitty to strip away someone's credit.

[@MrVargeth]

Last year they had a minor scandal after they fired an editor for working for another company they don't like. iirc they even removed him from credits. The other company was Lotfp

[@Minodrec]

If only they didn't fire an editor purely on badly assumed politics. Virtue signaling is bad. Doing it by firing an editor for something someone else he might have worked with might have done is unforgivable.

[@gadellomagnollo1810]

OSR has officially lost all meaning.

[@PaganPilot]

I am not going to support a company that tries to destroy their own contracted freelancer(editor)'s career just because he worked for Lamentations of the Flame Princess, thats some problematic toxic crap. Full stop.

[@grognardgaming8952]

It's a neat game but why are we calling everything OSR nowadays? There's nothing really OSR about it. Also, the commie slogan showing up in the book 3 times and the rules book and only module I ran having a few contradictions were kinda annoying. The biggest issue was it was hard to run combats unless you had printouts with load out for enemy mechs or you were doing a TON of page flipping

[@owellorge1868]

Lancer sounds boring