David Deane discusses Nietzsche and Liberalism with Larry Chapp and Rodney Howsare

[@wierdpocket]

My second favorite conversation you’ve done. This was a stand out episode. More on Nietzsche!

[@thomassimmons1950]

Irish, good common sense. Tanks to all tree of ya!!!

[@CactusLand]

Fascinating!! Big thanks to all three of you. We all know down deep the answer to this question, but, as Larry put it, if we go there we will be slapped with the most unholy labels and forever canceled. Here is the problem in my view. Once someone actually comes out and says it, the idea will resonate powerfully and the movement will start. Do we say as we see it, from a Catholic perspective, or do we let someone else begin the conversation. As they say, "No risk it no biscuit"?

[@chrisburns9828]

The crazy thing about Deane is that he talks about Nietzsche, Marx, Foucault and those guys so you expect him to be leftist and woke. But somehow he turns them on leftism and offers hardcore traditional Christianity instead. He also needs to update his Pope picture coz that's either JPII or Benedict on his wall!

[@newglof9558]

28:36 "only ontological transformation can make me capable of doing the good. Without ontological transformation, every seemingly good moral action is simply another ruse of violence" Absolutely fascinating way to put it

[@chrisburns9828]

It's a very precise way of saying "ya'll need Jesus"

[@marilynk2609]

Really enjoyed the dialog especially the important question! How to get to a post Liberal position and smash stereotypes! There is hope however and change is coming with courageous men and women! Thank you! Loved it! 1

[@dorianwalker1408]

I love how frequently Dr Deane refers to John Milbank. When will his favorite reference be invited on to Gaudium et Spes 22?? 👀

[@chrisburns9828]

I think Milbank was on but a long time ago? Chapp + Milbank would be a must watch.

[@newglof9558]

There is a big Nietzschean turn in politics, specifically right-wing politics, triggered largely by the author known as Bronze Age Pervert. New Polity recently had a podcast attempting to contend with this "new Nietzscheanism", but I'd be curious to see Dr. Chapp's contention with it (especially because a lot of younger Catholics are getting swept up in the 'vitalist temptation')

[@theambivalentone]

I could see it being a struggle with something like Bronze Age Mindset or Caribbean Rhythms because it is for a terminally online crowd. If the schizo patois did not prove impenetrable, these three would probably do a great show on the topic. At least these guys can meaningfully contend with Nietzsche, the bits of that pod I listened to before shutting it off were incredibly facile.

[@aaronkessler2857]

Good Christian art, particularly film and music, will solve the Babylonian captivity of the imagination. Quite frankly, apologetics and politics can do nothing without the imagination.

[@guypotvin6943]

The answer may be to pick up the cross, and ignore those that call us names and attempt to cancel. Simply stating , nope no more of this. Look at the world it’s created. And yes, that goes for the priests and bishops too.

[@jacobjones921]

I wonder if your argument Dr. Chapp about the barrier than people feel about coming back to the church is generationally dependent. Many younger people that grew up outside the church know so little about it that they can't really have a barrier.

[@guypotvin6943]

The abortion issue is two fold, it’s abortion but it’s also promiscuity. Those two issues go hand and hand. It’s through promiscuous sex that abortion becomes a “sacrament “. Which sex has also become, modernist sacrament.

[@frankattanucci6748]

A brilliant lecture: "Nietzsche was WRONG about Christianity: René Girard" (length 1:35:03). Here is a description: Among Nietzsche's critics, René Girard is perhaps unique. Girard's understanding of human civilization and the origins of human culture is that it is based on ritual, collective violence against a scapegoated individual - and he argues that Nietzsche is one of the only thinkers hitherto who understood this. Nietzsche's famous formula - Dionysus versus the Crucified - is the title of Girard's critical essay on Nietzsche. He does not quibble with Nietzsche's framing of the situation, but rather with Nietzsche's conclusions. While Nietzsche takes up for the side of Dionysus, Girard stands on the side of the Crucified, arguing that Nietzsche was fundamentally wrong to lament the ascendance of Christianity and to yearn for a return to the Dionysian. In the course of Nietzsche's defense of Dionysus, he put forward moral theories that were "untenable", and become increasingly "inhuman". Among the many commenters of Nietzsche, both disciples and critics, it is rare to find a figure like Girard, who recognizes Nietzsche's brilliance, but totally condemns his legacy. Join me today to learn about the life of Rene Girard, his theories of mimetic desire and scapegoating, and the impassioned case he puts forward for The Crucified. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6TSdJykp6dgZsksi=A-XLSbMWq7z0iuCe (length 1:35:03)