David Holmgren talks collapse at the SLF Great Debate

[@thomasellis8586]

David is right, as always. As an old Chinese proverb once put it (roughly), the best way to overcome evil is not to fight it directly, for hate is a form of subjective involvement with the hated object--we become indistinguishable from our enemies in fighting them on their terms. Rather, the best way to overcome evil is by energetic progress in the good--growing gardens, growing community, and growing awareness.

[@marekgaramond4198]

Jesteś skrajnym,niebezpiecznym wariatem,człowiekiem naiwnym.Permakultura jest podstępną maską dla Agendy 21.

[@virtualspanner]

Best speech I've ever heard. 🙌

[@vivalaleta]

I can recall being a small child and the evening news always ended with how much growth the country had seen for that day. I couldn't understand the extreme positive slant they gave to constant growing knowing what I did at that age - that we lived on a finite planet.

[@FoxyCAMTV]

Boycott the system but before you do buy a piece of Land and turn it into paradise,then boycott the system.

[@michaelcarper2185]

Anyone watching this again, amidst the Corona Virus outbreak and response?

[@Captain_MonsterFart]

Yup! I had started doubting this kind of thinking for a few years when things kept rolling along and people were still making money doing silly things like dog walking and KZbin fountain pen review videos. But here were are, the collapse is likely upon us. I hope there's enough people around who think in this way or we could be in for a dark few years. Also....I caught the virus. One month later I'm still not well. It's gardening season I need to be working harder outside than I am able to.

[@kdixuebw7884bfb]

Yep, we're here

[@newearthpermaculture514]

Very well done, self reliance is an attack to the system and a step toward a better future

[@terryrustad1800]

Excellent words of wisdom! 🙏

[@kaxiaz]

Best Holmgren 10 minutes EVER

[@AG-SYS]

"I believe that the way the billion or so middle class people live, what they CHOOSE, is the biggest leverage point that exists in the world. And, that it is possible for relatively small numbers of that billion to actually have an influence on the system by what they CHOOSE to do...without the permission of government, without the permission of banks and corporations because we are mostly talking about small scale change in our own lives." 100% agree. The foundation of the systems we operate on is a house of cards and he is correct in stating it would take a small number of people to upset the whole paradigm. Every choice you make every day either surrenders autonomy or strengthens it - choose wisely. Voluntary non-participation - starve the beast ! "The preaching and talkin' is done;We've gotta live up" - Bob Marley

[@PermacultureSenegal]

Actually this is giving hope

[@simpletownworx]

I showed this vid to an activist friend of mine around the time of publication. She disagreed. 4 years down the line and I still think DH is spot on. I think of that art piece where politicians are submerged in water still discussing the existence of climate change. For her entertainment I would change the politicians to climate activists saying "just one more blockade!"

[@davedrewett2196]

Well we're having more fun anyway. Hahaha love it.

[@Gabriel-ev6qg]

Please subtitle this video in spanish!! Es el discurso más realista, sabio, inspirador y esperanzador que he escuchado en AÑOS. ¡A trabajar!

[@elizabethflynn8455]

Spot on!🙂❤

[@ChronoLegionarius]

Brilliant.

[@setsappa1540]

Please, where is the rest of the whole panel? Ive seen it on Vimeo but its gone. I can find only this speach. Can somebody point me right way?

[@carolined3058]

great speech

[@appleandoranges1]

"Trust a bloody anarchist...." lol

[@kervennic]

Unabomber is not a bad option, it just depend on your personal situation. If no one is up to the task in your neighborhood, if you have no partner and that the state is prosecuting you buy keeping building road close to your property and financing herbicide users next to your garden, then it might be the best thing you might do of the life nature gave to you.

[@mrbisse1]

I wish the word "deentralism" a la Ralph Borsodi were used more. But -- GREAT! You're a heo.

[@normalizedinsanity4873]

He is making a terrible error in his attitude towards the significance of politics...(and part of the desired result must include and end to politics, as politicians are snake oil salesman's that while they exists, our interests don't account for anything) Why do we not have perma culture now? Because of capitalist private property relations, which puts in the hands of the 5% , 90% of agricultural produce/minerals and machinery of production. In other words they have legalized the theft of the fruits of the earth that are required for our sustenance...they control it all, and this is the ONLY reason people go without, and is the cause of ALL war. The introduction of money means we are compelled to do the work they demand of us, learn skills they demand of us to receive this paper crap that we may survive. Private property laws are far more pernicious than even this as the article attached will explain. Science should take us forwards, not turn us back in feudal serfs. World War 1, proceeded the crash of 1890, WW2 proceeded the crash of 1929, the crash of 2008 will lead to global conflagration within the next 24 months and the environment has already passed tipping point, and there are now universities in the unite d states calling for armed insurrection as the only means to save the planet. This persons attitude towards politics is extremely ignorant....I am a humanist before all else, highly empathetic, I take this all very seriously, and unlike most of those I work with...to me your principles are everything, they are the sum total of who you are and what you stand for, that's why you don't compromise them and why I am extremely careful about the information I pass on....to mislead people is abominable. Karl Marx gets slandered pillar to post and in 15 years I have yet to meet a critic that has even read the communist manifesto and like Marx I offer no suggestions on a future society...for he offered none. Karl Marx was a humanist, his main concern was alienation and how capitalist society caused this. This is Marx's legacy....the discovery of the material forces that facilitated change in human society, that are not not readily visible or obvious. The deprivations of the capitalist system are due to the contradiction between the world carved up into irrational nation states and the owner ship of private property. You want freedom then everyone needs equal access to the fruits of the earth...The solution is the rational use of resources owned by all of humanity, this requires the removal of all national borders, that are fictitious and like a fence around a cattle yard. Theses measures are pre- requisites for our survival People talk of freedom, but never really identify what it is and it is often thought to be tied up in government and law.....the primary consideration that a society or a person "maybe free" is their access to that which sustains life...you can all thews you want in place, they are meaningless if you cannot sustain life. The capitalists deprive you of this right, and any attempts to live "off line" will be smashed...that is the role of fascism...and in Australia 30 billion dollars has been spent on training paramilitaries and arming them to smash any opposition to the system....that includes freeing yourself of it. Shoot to kill laws are enacted. The PM can call unilaterally call out the troops, yes the troops, to put down social unrest with lethal force and with total impunity...(amendment to the 2006 military call out bill) That it is a question of science and not some abstract notion that exists in someones mind only... as there is no empirical evidence to back it is axiomatic....does that attitude apply when servicing your car, or the building of a computer laptop, or going to to the moon..the level of political ignorance because of this idea that you do whatever choose and its just matter of mindset is bewildering. There is your evidence, if you wish to criticize show where the evidence is incorrect, or even falls short of the claims made. www.whatistobedonevl.com/417155784 The doomsday clock thebulletin.org/overview

[@nickryan4066]

One who grows his own food doesn't rely on systems to do it for them.

[@kervennic]

It is not true. You can move to places where capitalism is completely unable to make profit and buy cheap land where working by hand will enable you to grow food you'll pay otherwise a fortune. Those places are unfornately empty because most of the pseudo revolutionary are unable to sustain a bit of cold and prefer to rely on industry and oil to heat their ass rather than hugging wood the hard way. Lazy and scared to be alone. Most human like to live in flock, and die in flock. Future is in the hands of those who go offroad.

[@quistunes]

I think a good point is being made here. As things get worse politically & economically, fewer people are even able to afford a stable home. Keeping a roof over one's head, let alone a stable place to set up a cottage industry, becomes an impossibility. Moving to a place where one can afford to live off the land is not affordable for the huge percentage of people currently living in poverty in many countries including Australia & the US. Suggesting that someone can just easily pick up, move, & buy land in a different country suggests that the person making this comment has never lived in real poverty. Even so, if someone living in poverty has access to permaculture information, it can still be helpful if you are able to live in the same place for even a year. If one doesn't have access to any exposed land, buying potting soil could even be out of reach. Much of what Holmgren says here does apply to middle class with the ability to remain in a stable home, & it's great information. Like changing a garden or home design for different climates, one must also change a response for different economic classes within the current capitalist system. Capitalism does cause huge damage. I think the system will take itself down. I don't think it's likely to be a gradual descent. Because of the extreme wealth inequality, I expect it will be violent in most places. There may be a few who have access to somewhat remote locales with resilient communities (who are far enough out of the way to avoid military interest) that will be shielded from the coming collapse. Only for a little while, because the collapse is not just economic, it is ecological & global. Primitive living skills may be the most valuable in coming times if the collapse/lifeboat scenario from Holmgren's "Future Scenarios" comes to pass.

[@KWilliamsacoustic]

@@kervennic how are you supposed to buy the land if you can't first work to get the money to buy it? Normalized Insanity makes some really good points... you first have to play the game to be even slightly free of it.

[@kervennic]

@@KWilliamsacoustic The reason why you'll play the game for so long is not the price of land (cheap in some place in Europe), but the fact that there is a huge gap between urban modern life and peasant life. Starting alone is a real challenge and most people are just dreaming. I would not set me as an example beacuse I have some assets (access to land from family and a little money from previous jobs) but I managed so far to escape a great part of the system for 6 years. And I do not even have social benefits, which most people have here (they would have no excuse then). This is tough mostly because I am alone (small family) and other people are very hostile (they truly hate people who refuse to work on a regular base). But it is clear that if we were several on the farm, we would live like kings with only a few hours of usual work outside (to pay taxes mainly and some bills). Or even could plan to make a business of our own. Alone it's much harder as producing all you need is really time consumming and more difficult. You need at least to be two workers.