David Develops Doom - The Visual Language of Doom Maps

[@tbotalpha8133]

There's a good point that I remember from the old Portal 2 developer commentaries. If you've introduced a lot of mechanics into your game, and you've gone a while without employing one of them, don't be afraid to put the player through another mini-tutorial to remind them how the mechanic works. For instance, if you've introduced shootable switches into your WAD, and had them appear in a few maps early on, you might then leave them out of the next few maps. But when you bring shootable switches back, the player may have forgotten how they work, and not think to interact with them. Thus, it's good to take a second to remind players how they work in a safe environment. A skilled and experienced player will likely remember the switches and breeze through, but a less-competent one may still need a reminder. This was used in Portal 2 when the player gained access to the gel that allowed them to paint portal-able surfaces anywhere. It appeared in a few puzzles right after its introduction, before disappearing for a while. Then when it returned in a puzzle later, Valve's devs found that their playtesters kept ignoring the portal gel, and not thinking to use it to solve the puzzle. So they added a short sequence right before the puzzle, where the player had to use portal gel to cross an otherwise impassable chasm. This mentally primed the players to think about using the portal gel, and so made the solution to the following puzzle much clearer.

[@ancientmadness-rlk]

"damaging floors should be consistent" Surprisingly said nothing about Plutonia.

[@ShinoSarna]

There is a Doom texture that looks shootable - the "Evil Eye" thing, with the CEYE sprite. Since a *lot* of Doom players played Sigil because it was made by Romero, most people will probably remember that the Evil Eye was a shootable switch in that game. It helps that it kind of looks like a target due to the green pentacle.

[@DavidXNewton]

That works now that Romero has conditioned us to look for them - I can’t stop shooting them now! It’s a little more awkward because that’s a Thing that has to be used in tandem with a shootable linedef behind it, but it’s a nice starting point

[@DarkDarvanna]

To be exact the evil eyes where the marker of "Hey shoot here the wall behind me has a trigger that activates by bullet impact"

[@Crazy_Borg]

Please more of this, it is informative and interresting. Plus, most things relate to level design in general and isn't exclusive to Doom. I have seen a lot of Half-Life maps struggled with the same basics as this.

[@DavidXNewton]

Thanks! As soon as I submitted the video I thought of some more, but these are more about how the map is laid out than its individual elements :)

[@QuintessentialWalrus]

Seconded, I'd love to see more of these. I'm not much of a Doom mapper (Source is my main jam) but the lessons here are applicable to almost any action game.

[@lukkkasz323]

Wooden crates that aren't breakable.

[@Dondlo46]

Also I think every map should be playable with pistol start, if your map is not based on continuous playthrough

[@hypolyxa7207]

Indeed. It's also one of the rules Romero went by when designing maps.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

A simple way to get to a shotgun is typically one very helpful way, odds are you grabbed multiple shotguns by now, but it helps curb frustrations with a pistol start.

[@Burger-s8z]

That’s such a dumb way of thinking with zero reasoning that many people regurgitate for no reason except they hear others say it.

[@Dondlo46]

@@Burger-s8z "if your map is not based on continuous playthrough"

[@artCharles]

@@Burger-s8z I think it comes from how, in the original Doom, if you die, you restart the level from the beginning with just the pistol. So it makes sense to make it so you can pistol-start a map and still have it be playable, especially if your map is being made to be played with Vanilla Doom, or a more Vanilla-like source port like Crispy Doom.

[@MistyRainne]

About indicating locked doors: Doom, Heretic, and Hexen all have different approaches to this. Doom, by convention, uses colored trim around the door. Heretic places statue Things near the door that carry colored orbs (and furthermore, the keys in standard Heretic maps are used in the same order: Yellow, Green, Blue -- there's no technical requirement for this but it's a convention the IWAD maps follow). Hexen puts an indicative bordered keyhole on the door texture itself.

[@BiodegradableYTP]

A deliciously nerdy Doom video. Really interesting stuff here, Dave.

[@sinonistoyemi6327]

my mapping standard language: blue and brown water never hurts, blood 5% damaging, nukage 10%, lava and glowing rocks 20%. ceiling texture of every normal door is always flat CEIL5_2. sidedefs of all doors is always the DOORTRAK texture never unpegged. normal teleports always 255 bright and light glows +1 sec.

[@leodoom8563]

@DavidXNewton You are forgetting something VERY important and it's related to progression (and partially to switches as you talked there). Do NOT put mandatory keys inside of secrets. Over and out.

[@DavidXNewton]

leodoom85 Yes!! Definitely, and a variation on the Hexen II problem - you should never have to find a secret to progress!

[@EmeralBookwise]

@@DavidXNewton: It could ~maybe~ be argued that mandatory "secrets" are sometimes okay, but only if that fact is appropriately telegraphed to the player early on, sorta like Sigil's shootable eye triggers. Lock the player in a room with some specific texture hidden in corner and then reinforce the technique in the following room. Train the player that they should be searching and then the "secret" hunt can be part of the challenge. Just be consistent about it. Once a texture has been used for a trigger, don't ever use it as anything else, at least not on the same map. A full mission pack where the trigger texture changes from one map to the next could maybe work, but again, only if this facet is telegraphed and reinforced to the player in an obvious way. The finale mission in such a pack could maybe break the rules a little, using multiple different trigger textures, but should still probably only use one trigger texture per room. It can test the player's memory on how puzzles were solved in previous maps, but should still try to avoid frustration with any "dead" triggers. Maybe not every such trigger need provide progress, but every trigger should still do something.

[@feliperojas-doomride]

@@EmeralBookwise very interesting idea for a map pack

[@Vordikk]

​@@DavidXNewton however you may have to find a secret for shortcut ;) an addition to last paragraph of video of shortcuts being harder.

[@carudesandstorm]

Seriously love this. Studying Doom level design through the lens of interface design absolutely needs to be more of a thing. Yes, there are a lot of great pieces of wisdom already out there -- Romero's 8 rules, Plutonia as a model for enemy placement, etc. -- but those lessons are SO much easier to understand and apply (speaking as a relative newbie) when you can put them in a framework like that.

[@Optimus6128]

16:30 Interesting, I always didn't like some of the inescapable acid pits there, and would prefer there is always a way, being a lift or teleport, to get back to ground. I thought back then this was an oversight, but since they really added more damage to the sides, it's like they knew this can happen and left it like this, just damaged the player faster to not wait too much.

[@feliperojas-doomride]

in Doom 1, inescapable pits are indicated by a "poison" sign

[@Optimus6128]

@@feliperojas-doomride It's true that the poison sign exists in these areas but it also exists in areas with acid that are not inescepable.

[@spd7693]

Well, here is my opinion on this: Doors - I try to make them sort of uniformous for the level, yet variative. In some maps - 5, 29 and to some extend 15 have all the same textures for every door in the level. In 11 my idea was to make the green doors lead to the red switch part and the white doors to lead to the red key, while the brown doors indicate optional areas and the two UAC doors and the TEKBRON ones are opened with a switch. TEKBRON and the tall narrow brown door work tremendously well in a combo. However, I don't seem to have found the balance between variety and guidance. Maybe I will show more of this in the future. The map I just sent you doesn't have many doors. The "Exit" door we were used to seeing in the earliest Doom is only used for the exit. Elevators - here I don't really use the same textures, but it's as you pointed - simply make them look different in order to attract the attention of the player. I also often use things like white marble around marble bricks. I also often use slad faces as interactable things. Unless I explicitly make them a decoration, inside a lift for instance. Switches - I do put the levers both ways and I admit it. Then again, if I use the pipe lever thar is down on SW1, it always is around said textures. The only other switch that is OK to be put on SW2 is that one, which alternates between a red and a blue skull and I always use it both ways. Still, uniformous for the map or with a very obvious indication. I also use it on my map 29, which has a gimmick from Eternal Doom Map 12 with those "defunct" switches. I'll let you find it out if you ever decide to play this gargantuan level of course. (Again, I promise I'll never make a map that huge again.) Locked door indications have to be uniformous for the keys too - red rectangles should mean red keycard, red skulls should mean red skullkey. I have maps that have both cards and skulls, but still they don't mix in with the coresponding doors. As for those lights, I'd explain again that they actually have different details than the locked door markers, so seeing them must mean that that ISN'T a locked door. I sometimes make them indicate paths to the key or locked object as you saw in my Map 11. Furthermore, there I made those doors open downwards and by a tripwire rather than manually. For teleporters I usually use the GATE textures, the FACE flat, the Baphomet flats and light textures. Since I have noticed that seeing a light texture on the floor and not on the ceiling should mean that you teleport. I also always make them 64x64 or 128x128. Or roughly like that since I also like triangle sectors. Yeah, triangular sectors and hexagonal forms as you noticed. They attract me a lot. I might make one of my maps entirely of hexagonal rooms once... But I'm not sure how good I'll make it after making a map with (almost) no right angles. And yes, taking feedback is important for me. I found it harsh at first, but learned my lesson and... I'd say I learned it a bit too well. At first I did a few things to prove myself and slam my fist on the table that "I can do it, but it doesn't mean I should like it." And when I found out how wrong I was, I admitted it and decided to do it for my own improvement. And challenged myself every day with everything new. Like a map with no straight line rooms might do.

[@himynameisben95]

"Damaging floors should be consistent" The people who made Plutonia: lol

[@DoomKid]

A new video from DavidN? Instant thumbs up

[@repugnus932]

Great video with plenty of useful design tips and advice, I even learned a neat fact about Doom II itself at 11:35. I'll be sure to refer to this for my next maps.

[@DavidXNewton]

Thanks :) Glad people find it as interesting as I do!

[@merthsoft]

This is a very good overview of the concept of affordance and how it applies to doom maps!

[@nobodywantsthisfeature]

I've been working on my first doom 2 map over the last few days and this video series has been a massive help, thank you!

[@somnvm37]

i'm not a doom player but, here's a little trick that id used in quake: they'd show something interactive [door, key, button] before you have access to it. You might be in a room and imidiately see a key, but it's behind bars, and theres a button that activates it, but to get to it you need to kill some monsters sadly no game other than portal 1 and 2 can just draw lines between every switch and every door, so you can try some visual cues.

[@endless_doom5337]

Visual cues are almost essential to any quality map now a day. Not only is it about the look and feel of the design, but it is also intimately related to the system of progression and the quality of life the player has as they move through the map. Fascinating video that explains the real importance behind this. Excellent. Many vanilla WADs from the 90s and early 2000s tend to have this problem, where it seemed that the map makers made an effort to make their maps so confusing that they hid the keys or switches needed to advance in a secret way. Not cool. Luckily, modern mappers know the importance of this point. PS: At 16:30. Another way to indicate damaging floor that the IWADs did in most of the maps is by using the wall texture with the ''poison'' warning, which helps indicate that the floor does high dmg and that is an unescapable pit.

[@DoomKid]

Good call about the poison signs, Endless!

[@DavidXNewton]

Thank you! And that's a great detail that I missed - very few Doom textures have legible words on them but they can be really useful for those moments when you really need to get the point across :) And it would work great in things like the area in Unholy Cathedral that doesn't look damaging, either - some sort of warning sign (for tech) or unholy symbol (for hell) that's recognizable as marking a damaging area.

[@lihtan]

I don't mind having a bit of ambiguity to the level design and interaction. DOOM came from an era when levels were labyrinthine and confusing. The story arc includes the UAC facilities slowly being warped and twisted by hellish influences. Having places in the game where there is uncertainly about the mechanics would enhance the atmosphere of chaos and uncertainty.

[@Bellpipe41]

I know this vid is two years old, but I just started mapping a couple of weeks ago and I’m pretty much starting from scratch, so lots of good advice here. Thanks! 👍

[@DavidXNewton]

You're welcome! I'm glad it's still useful :)

[@Fractilion]

I think you have given me some breakthrough epiphanies that have been stumping my brain on how to get started on map design. thankyou for this.

[@DavidXNewton]

Really glad this helped out - hope you make some great stuff :)

[@Zieleslaw]

20:10 "Huge gray arrow hovering above the computer" is actually red - you mentioned that earlier (and in MyHouse 4 video regarding your Scottish key replacements), but it is even better proof, that reliance solely on a color is a bad idea. Great and engaging video, David!

[@grumpy2661]

good point but i believe he said "great"

[@createprince2093]

this is such a phenomenal video mate, great work!

[@PhantomTMac]

Woah, I just so happened to find this video shortly after seeing your post on the Doomworld Forums for the RAMP project. Funny coincidence, since I was looking for videos giving map-making tips before possibly being a part of that mapping project. Even though I've been making maps since 2008, I found all of your advice to be super helpful and practical. Thank you!

[@TeaAndFloppyDisks]

This is a great look at how to do sensible map design. Actually, as you mentioned at the start, it can apply to designing anything interactive without making the user read the manual. I've seen a few of the clunky things too, such as the frustrating mazes and the bars you suddenly need to open directly like a door. Your advice on how to avoid those situations and achieve a balance between challenging and intuitive is really good. Thank you!

[@TwixtheFox]

I love the appearance of Balrog :D HUZZAH!!! Great video! And cute sona :P

[@HueyStinkFinger]

This is a topic that fascinates me. Thank you for delving into this!

[@YukiSenmatsu]

Ok, some stuff I never even thought of until seeing this video which I may take note of. Thanks so much, man

[@GoodmansGhost]

Great video, I'll definitely look at it again next time I decide to make something.

[@lev7509]

Great summary of things to consider in any game design! Thank you ^^

[@shikouji]

ive been playing through tnt for the first time, and god damn i wish the makers of those maps listened to this, a door is ment to look like a door. so many times to progress the level you need to click on a random wall texture hoping its the right fucking piece of wall that opens. my only complaint of tnt so far is that.

[@rayvenkman2087]

It’s fine if the door leads to a secret room or secret exit but not when it involves trying to beat the level.

[@shikouji]

@@rayvenkman2087 100% agree

[@Shan0a]

A fantastic video, had to take some notes for some, now that I hear them, more obvious stuff that are excellent idea. (like your usage of GATE texture for teleporters).

[@Gato303co]

Nice and logical observations about Doom mapping. P.S. Nice to see you have a rabbit avatar ;-)

[@Ayeloo]

Very insightful.

[@polygonvvitch]

My way to do shootable switches is doing the Evil Eye inside long pipeway thing, like John Romero did in Sigil. Helps to put some ammo right in front of it too.

[@madscientist1045]

This should get more views.

[@Optimus6128]

4:50 I remember this on that particular WAD and I didn't like it. It's a matter of personal taste. It gave me the impression that the world was exactly not realistic, it was designed for the player to not be confused. Everything layed out perfectly. In the real world not every door which is grey doesn't open and not every door which is brown opens. I understood then why they did it, it was like a pro-tip for modern level design, it's very common on some modern AAA futuristic fps the door with green lights to be open, the door with red lights to be locked for example. I guess when I am in a room where some doors can't be opened, I think I am in a facility where not everything is expected to be opened.

[@reaperxdarkx4161]

19:33 the shoot switch appears again in the spirit world

[@Arrowhead123]

Really really enjoy your content, David! Keep it up!

[@samw1501]

This was great! Thank you! Saw it and thought, "I know all this right?" But now I'm looking at my WIP, thinking about all the redesign I should do. :D A big mistake I think I've made: those SW1/2 Lion/Satyr/Goblin textures which look like gargoyles on brown metal. Sometimes I have used them as switches, sometimes as decoration, and sometimes as light sources. Further confused by the fact that I've tried to use red marble versions of Lion, Satyr and Goblin to signpost three hidden switches in a side-quest to open the secret level.

[@bird9188]

a handful of custom wads have shootable switches at the very start to wake up every monster in the level

[@rubyterpball3817]

loving these videos

[@CaveyMoth]

I remember when they first had shootable switches. I had no idea that was even a thing until I was stuck on a map in TNT Evilution for an hour. 5:00 Uhhh, this door is dark gray, and it's openable.

[@test-rj2vl]

I remember after getting back to Doom 2 after like 10 years of break or so I forgot how to escape that room in MAP18 The Courtyard. Had to look it up from youtube....

[@alexlokanin3312]

Loving the thoughts on here

[@axtrifonov]

19:22 wrong, it appears in Spirit World too.

[@dougcarey2233]

The coolest trick I've seen for shootable switches was in a terrible game, Ultima 9. Pity. However, the trick was that shootable switches moved around on a wall in a predictable pattern fairly quickly, making the shot something of a mini-game.

[@MISTER_SQUIRRELLL]

Thank you for this videos it's very helpful as I'm totally new to game making. I'm not making doom maps just a 3rd person shooter fan game but a lot of the stuff seems very applicable to what I want to do eventually

[@DavidXNewton]

Excellent, good luck with it all - the concepts still apply even today :)

[@tastychunks]

Something I'm surprised you didn't mention about damaging floors is the possibility of adding a "hazard" symbol near the floors as another way of showing it's dangerous

[@amadorbadillocesarivan4120]

Very nice video, it's very useful for making maps

[@tj71520]

Thanks, very interesting and informative video

[@AnnCatsanndra]

Thank you! Pretty cool stuff!!

[@christophereberhart7487]

Hi David, I was just curious if you were ever thinking of releasing a compilation of these maps you've been making? I'd love to give them a play

[@lazycat9731]

Good video. I will use this information now.

[@Vordikk]

What's about randomness in level progression? Which is quite simple to introduce with UDMF. Example: Teleport 1 leads to a room full of monsters, but right toward plasmagun. Teleport 2 leads to the same room from other side, where monsters placed far and not looks behind, but also plasma lies far behind them And destinations of these teleports are decided at start of the game. Or even "worse": Destination is decided upon teleporting first time, thus having 2 teleports gives only an illusion of decision. But at same time coming back and using second teleport would lead to a secret. This is kinda obvious for first time playthrough because player would always like to try both teleports, but at same time illogical and frustrating for replaying :D Surely, there should be reason to go back.

[@liamaldrich2476]

The fact that you're playing the master levels while discussing good and intuitive design makes me uneasy lol

[@DavidXNewton]

Hah, that's a good point :) I just wanted to get footage from something that I hadn't already played to death!

[@NoobixCube]

Have you ever had problems with a speed run shortcut being seen by more players as the intended path? Like they completely missed your breadcrumb trail, and instead thought they had to Straferun along a series of pillars that they shouldn’t have been able to run across? Does it create problems with players getting stuck beyond an obstacle, like a key door, that wouldn’t have been a problem had they done it the right way?

[@DavidXNewton]

Interesting question :) There was one place (Pleasure Drone in Keeper 3) where I put a load of chaingunners near the start to discourage the player from going that way first, but many people just fought through anyway! It didn't give them any advantage, but I was glad the early players caught it because it was then possible to get trapped behind a door you didn't have the key for, exactly as you said (players always do weird things). In the example I was thinking of in the video when I mentioned speedrunning, it was one of my maps in a community project - I actually edited that one's keys around so that doing the impossible-seeming speedrun route (a massive jump from a bit of scenery up to a higher cliff) helped you more than it would otherwise have, so that the speedrunner wouldn't have to go miles back to grab a key.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

David here missed a teleporter I placed which puts you back at the start of the level, and instead climbed out of the pit back the way he came. :D Real minute issue which doesn't change how the level actually plays, but it made me realize that maybe the teleporter wasn't obvious enough, and I didn't consider how the constantly rising and lowering pillars (which I intended more as a tool for the player to use while fighting in the pit) could also be used to get out.

[@bigolbilly]

I try to avoid thinking of my maps in terms of “intended path,” for the most part, and more in terms of “affordances,” i.e. what’s possible for the player to do at any given point in the map. Maybe not the most immediately practical advice, but I think it helps orient your approach. Setting out to make the player do a certain sequence of things will tend to be frustrating, as players will find alternatives and even resist. But if you think of a map’s structure in terms of how you’ll open up and close off options at various points, it helps reorient your design goals to embrace player freedom while actually guiding it. When you’re dealing with a medium that specializes in interaction, questions like “how do I let the player know they can do x?” and “how can I encourage players to want to do x?” are often more readily solvable than “how do I get the player to do x?”

[@DavidXNewton]

@@bigolbilly That's a really good way of thinking about it! It's the difference between railroading a player into "do this now", and just letting the player know that this is the thing they're meant to/can do next.

[@ryandevil2355]

In your ddd video's you've mentioned a lot about monster placement and type in mapping (like not all directly in front of the player/ pain elementals should just be called a pain). I think you could make a great video about this.

[@ThePurplePassage]

18:50 I disagree that the shootable door in Doom 2's the courtyard is bad design. 1. What difference does it make that the first use is coming late in the game? The map uses it right at the start in a single small room - there is no way the player will be lost or confused for long scouring the level as they are confined there. I think it would only be a problem if it was part way through the level and there were many other parts accessible which the player might end up rechecking. Because of the limited space, I've the player can't open it, they will at worst try wall humping the rest of the walls before shooting. 2. It doesn't matter that it looks the same as a normal door for the reasons in 1. It won't be long before the player tries shooting it. I'm fact it's better it looks like a normal for as that strongly hints it is the way to proceed 3. Not reusing the shootable door idiom is a slight pity, but that is only an issue of subsequent design choice, rather than with the introduction of the mechanic. The game establishes tech doors as doors - would we therefore consider the use of hell themed doors later in hell levels to be a problem? It doesn't follow the established visual metaphor that tech door = door from earlier maps therefore by this logic it's bad. In short i think Sandy Petersen could've done a lot worse and the way he did it here is fine

[@DavidXNewton]

Fair enough, it would definitely have been worse if the player had been left to wander. I think there’s something like that in MAP28 or 29 where a lot of people get stuck, and you have to shoot a certain decoration… but I never noticed that because I always set it off accidentally

[@shiba2ndworlder]

I can advise also making teleporter pads like in Quake, it can show the player where the teleporter goes, and helps remember what areas player already visited.

[@DavidXNewton]

Oh, what kind - like the ones in Quake 3 which show you the vague image through the portal?

[@shiba2ndworlder]

@@DavidXNewton remember that in quake one,bwhen you through a portal gate, you teleport on a teleporter pad, like those squares with runes, and in techbases those are like brown metal glowing thingies. Ti recreate that you can either use custom textures or get creative with original doom flats.

[@SadButter]

Great video, but I'd like to point out your criticism on the starting room of Doom 2's Courtyard is faulty for a couple of reasons: 1. Shootable doors were introduced as early as Doom 1. Now granted, they were mostly used only to access secret areas not to mention it's technically a completely different game, but in my opinion it should still be familiar by the time you dive into Doom 2, but that's a whole different argument. 2. the fact it looks openable like a door only helps the player to figure out they can interact with it. I never had trouble figuring out how to open it, because the starting room is very small with no other details which immediately directs the player's attention to the door, which usually results in the thought process of "well I can't open it by pressing it, maybe I'll try shooting it instead." 3. Shootable doors *do* get reintroduced later in the map Spirit World, which in my opinion is a much more poorly implemented example of this. I remember being stuck on that map for 30 minutes because the shootable switch for the door was in a seemingly random room in the level and it looked like ordinary wall decoration very similar to other walls in that very same room you *couldn't* interact with. To make it worse it appeared at the very end of the level, so you could very well be fooled to go back and forth the entire level hopelessly looking for the solution. Your criticism does apply on that level very well, so it was still a point well made.

[@nemtudom5074]

This video is great!

[@LupisLight]

Re: Switches, it is important to make it clear what exactly a given switch does. Buttons right next to the door they open, for instance. If the switch triggers something remotely, though, you need to make sure the player knows what they just did; positioning the switch so the player can see the door opening as they use it, an audio que to get them to look in the right direction, or at least providing a video monitor showing the door in question if it absolutely *must* be in another room across the level for some reason. It in neither fun for the player or helpful to the player to force them to search the whole level to figure out what the button they just pressed actually changed, especially since not everyone has a perfect photographic memory of the level layout they've just been through for the first time. Also, the reason shoot-able switches are such a tricky concept to teach, is because there is no real life experience to connect to it. We've all used buttons and switches to activate devices our whole lives, so using them to activate things in a video game is as intuitive as you can get. But when, in real life, would anyone *ever* encounter a switch that you have to shoot to activate? Never, that's when!

[@DavidXNewton]

Yes, this is all good :) I try to use switches only for things that happen nearby, and keys for opening access to something elsewhere in the map - they have a built in guide to what options they’ve opened to you!

[@nemtudom5074]

I think i found the rabbithole i was looking for to get into doom mapping We'll see. Maybe i'll make something nice eventually

[@Lumadous]

Don't make empty secrets, and scale what's in the secret to how hard it is to find the secret.

[@darkranger116]

"things should look like they can be used, how they're actually used" and this ladies and gentlemen, is one of the main reasons why Doom Eternal has no melee combat system.

[@argonhammer9352]

Wdym?

[@darkranger116]

@@argonhammer9352 The act of updating the doom slayer with a blade built into his arm, visually implies that it not only, will be a selectable weapon you can use in your arsenal, but also, has a melee combat system to interact with. Neither of those things are the case in Eternal.

[@argonhammer9352]

@@darkranger116 not necessarily, I was never under that impression

[@darkranger116]

@@argonhammer9352 I noticed within the first 10 seconds because using a basic melee attack did no damage to the most basic zombie enemy type. They made the basic melee a shove, and put damage on the dodge move. Gave the chainsaw regenerating ammo so you can always have it in your back pocket, put in blood punch as a cool down ability like an overwatch character, and only made the crucible an ungraded chainsaw for all intent and purposes. Top it all off with the fact that the arm blade isnt a weapon, its only a re-skin for glory kills, and it all becomes simple form, no articulated function

[@nemtudom5074]

@@darkranger116 Im still pissed about those changes. Doom 2016's combat system waas better.

[@WhiteRhinoPSO]

"However, if a player has difficulty finding out where they should go next.. because they can't discover what pulling a switch did, they'll be standing around stuck and now having a good time." Man, I wish the people who made Hexen's levels had been told this. =V

[@test-rj2vl]

100% agree with you! Wish there were moderators on doomworld who would not allow to post wads that do not comply with that. Because of some bad wads I was even looking for ways to make a doom mod that would flash on map the sector that was affected by switch or walk over line or that would highlight switches that do not use switch texture. Thought it would serve as a revenge for bad mappers - the idea is that if you make me search for switch for 2 hours then I nullify your effort by making mod against such maps.

[@DavidXNewton]

That’s an amazing idea…! I remember some weird complication about tags being visible to ZScript, but you could definitely react using an event handler and work out which line had just been activated - and maybe look at which thinkers are now moving? I’d love to explore this :)

[@test-rj2vl]

​@@DavidXNewton Didn't expect response so quickly. Wow. If you would like to explore this you could look up Ultimate Classic Minimap from doomworld. It seems like a good learning project to kick-start this idea without investing like 3 months in zscript documentation up front. And greetings to your RAMP project. Sadly I slept in 2nd time but would love to be there in future maybe.

[@Zeropercentany]

@DavidXNewton what is the wad you used for demonstrating doors and damaging floors?

[@RationalFunction]

Water does sometimes damage you in doom 1, specifically e3m3, pandemonium. I like to think of it as boiling hot.

[@Wertercat]

What’s the WAD in the first piece of background footage of the New Concepts section? It looks interesting

[@DavidXNewton]

Thanks! That’s Vulkan Inc, the first thing I made after rediscovering ZDoom in 2016 :)

[@Wertercat]

@@DavidXNewton Neat!

[@ClarkKentai]

Is there any way to make shootable switches that demand a specific weapon? I'm hammering out a Metroidvania style project, that'd make things way easier on me.

[@DavidXNewton]

You could do it with GZDoom, with a new defined Thing that’s impervious to certain damage types, or make a ZScript event listener that looks at what weapon the player is using… if it’s in vanilla I’m absolutely stuck :)

[@ClarkKentai]

@@DavidXNewton I'm using UDMF, I probably should have specified. Thanks!

[@Kevin-jb2pv]

The thing that bugs me more about the courtyard than the stupid shoot switch is definitely how all the health and armor bonuses laid out in that X pattern _aren't even remotely straight_

[@pocketstationman6364]

I really like the textures in the hot tub section. Did you get them from some website or did you make them yourself?

[@dedli_midi]

ok thank you scientist

[@Ribulose15diphosphat]

The Switch-Colour is something weird. In Electrical installations, red usually means 'on' and green means 'off'. This is often seen on circuit breakes (like the ones in your fusebox) or industrial switches. The Idea is that Off greenlights the electrician to touch it. Thought this definitly explains, how the Doomguy sets the house on fire in MyHouse.wad's bad ending by using the fusebox 🙂.

[@ciclon5682]

its probably becuase in a game setting, red usually means "negative" and green means "Positive" so it makes sense to use that for a switch.

[@AntnAndArr]

When i make a door that needs to be opened by a switch, i make a little wirer next to the door to show that 😅

[@mariowario5945]

3:24 what wad is this?

[@DavidXNewton]

I think it's one of the Doom 2 Master levels! I vaguely remember I used those as background footage for this video

[@Cardinal908ipo]

I think the map in the background is "canyon" from the master levels.

[@jewalky]

It's funny how you explain that doors that are not interactive are dark grey and how it's good And then you show how the player goes and opens a dark grey double door at 5:00 :)

[@DavidXNewton]

Hah, yes - that door had bright handles on it which meant it was openable, but there are definitely places where they could have been more explicit!

[@JohnVullo]

Great video but I disagree about shooting the door in Doom 2. Id say maybe it should have been more obvious, but you see a blue key exit and theres no blue key so getting out of that lion door is the only way. Its trying to say 'THIS is the way out'. Second, introducing it so late in the game would be better than early because if that is a mechanic not used a lot, you would be spending so much time shooting things looking for secrets and such. Even in Sigil it IS used but IIRC its not every map, but every time you DO see an eye, its shootable. Perhaps it would have been best to have that lion door ONLY shootable through the game (or one specific texture), as to not have the player dread having to shoot everything because you dont know what is or isnt shootable.

[@DavidXNewton]

Yep, that's fair enough - having consistency is really the main thing that's missing, it would have been nice if Doom had used some textures that seemed to invite shooting, for the gun-activated linedefs.

[@sopothetocho]

Im not making doom maps but a Heretic inspired retro FPS, Still this is usable information for me.

[@DavidXNewton]

That sounds amazing :)

[@franthehonest-eyes4883]

Can I send you some maps for opinions? I've been working on them for a long time

[@DavidXNewton]

Certainly! You can send them over email at davidknewton (gmail), or get my attention on the Doomworld or ZDoom forums :)

[@franthehonest-eyes4883]

Thank you a lot! I'll try to send it by gmail

[@nemtudom5074]

Also, my advice: Please, PLEASE dont use repeatable switches for purposes where pressing it again does nothing

[@bouncingbluesoul5270]

Heretic has a weird slime texture in place of the Nukage.

[@SilverMiner2]

17:54 Natural Tvventy used these eye switches before Romero did lol dude

[@urrova8261]

nice video! i understanded the half becouse the subtitles arent available yet, but ok :v

[@DavidXNewton]

Sorry about that - I keep trying to speak more slowly :) Subtitles are available now and they look good from what I've read!

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

Not bad, a lot is obvious (though not everyone knows the obvious), but there's some things I didn't think about much myself.

[@near5148]

I never made a doom map or wad I had made map for ohter game that allow you to do it

[@AtomicToucan]

Is it the mark of a good video if you don't notice it's twenty minutes long until the end?

[@mineplaymod9000]

what wad is this?

[@DavidXNewton]

Most of the demonstration footage is a custom WAD that I made for the video! I meant to go back and do a WAD-format version of this video where you'd be able to wander around and touch things and get commentary, but it fell off my radar

[@wesleybcrowen]

Remember how in Industrial Zone you are supposed to get the Red Key? What the hell, John, why did you set it like this. Don't do that.

[@JediMB]

It's been so long since I last played Doom II, I didn't remember at all what this was referring to. One KZbin walkthrough of the map later... wow, that was a mess.

[@wesleybcrowen]

@@JediMB Goin' in Circles in Industrial Zone, occasionally thinking "I can just make it by running through the crates".. Nah, you are just meant to teleport backwards straight to the key.

[@RolloTonéBrownTown]

Oh god... Hexen 2 switches....

[@John-yy1oy]

Great video! Id like twice if i could

[@271kochu]

Doors should look doorable

[@near5148]

Lol grinning doomguy face

[@dragonofdaggersgamingvideo87]

hi

[@DavidXNewton]

Hello!

[@scottl.1568]

Whut