How to Make a Doom Map That Looks Good

[@mangird1]

Can't believe nirvana stopped making music and started making doom wads

[@NirvanaYoutube]

It's true

[@DoomKid]

Actually, little known fact: they're two different Nirvanas - the band loved the YT channel so much they "borrowed" the name. No legal action was taken, surprisingly..

[@Ivegotsomewater81]

@@DoomKidThere’s also a band named Nirvana that renamed themselves to Nirvana 2002

[@_antares031]

"When in doubt, put more -arch-viles- linedefs."

[@_thresh_]

Dario and milo casali when making plutonia in a nutshell

[@spineappletea]

massive props to youtubers like you and a1 making tutorials that cover more than just the bare minimum when it comes to doom mapping.

[@Peter_Parker_racista]

Amazing video, really entertaining, would love to see a video similar to this one about fight design and monster placement

[@NirvanaYoutube]

I have some less engaging, lengthy lecture-type videos on these topics, but I might make more concise and digestible versions in the future

[@BassSlapper89]

Thank you for this video Nirvana. I've been designing maps for Jazz Jackrabbit Doom since 2018 and this helps me push myself to make more well designed maps in the future. I do have a few projects lined up after I finish with Jazz Jackrabbit Doom that will definitely have better detail. Thanks again for the video.

[@roadkill_52]

Fireblu is not a meme texture, it's genuinely beautiful and an interesting color combination

[@MineDoom312]

Yeah, I love using it as a portal texture

[@ladams391]

"Both, definitely both"

[@Pistoolkip]

Have you ever considered the 60/30/10 design principle? I've had some great results using it, and think many of the classics fit this principle if you look into it. One thing would like to add: adjust your linedefs to fix your textures. I've seen too many 32 wide pillars using Support 3, but you can get great results with making your sectors and lines the right size for your textures, especially in vanilla.

[@kinetic03]

nice video, I liked the point about making structures outside the map to convey a sense of place

[@luzthebuz2452]

14:39 the shotgunner ascends

[@h.m.friendly]

Can you please list all the wads you featured here? I'd love to play some of them. Thanks!

[@DoomGuncasterK]

Man that track on Fractured World's Map02 Midnight Tengu is sooooooo smooth and good!

[@Sputnik34]

great video. i'm only about 2 days into learning doom mapping so i'm beyond dumb at this stuff but you've helped me think about some stuff when attempting to design! thanks!

[@justinlong5892]

Thanks. I just started my third map and I'm focusing on the aesthetics, as my first two played ok, but were lackluster in the looks

[@JaySmith-cd1ln]

Oh snap! This is gonna be good 🤘

[@jamison8929]

very insightful. thanks for the video!

[@s2korpionic]

Learn from your betters? There's Augur Zenith and Lost Civilisation for reference.

[@Faad3e]

what a great video! lots of nice tips that ill use for my upcoming slaughter map winter's fury is one wad that really makes mp3 music work, blizzard conditions meshes really well with its music

[@friezusworldYGO]

Avid vanilla texture user here! Custom textures are great, but if you are able to use vanilla textures and make them look stunning, that's a real artistic skill imo. Played many maps that were able to use vanilla textures in ways I never would have thought would be possible that looked so good. I usually like using vanilla because I'm lazy, and mostly like making techbase maps. I do use some custom textures sometimes though, just to add a bit of spice. Hope to see more videos like this.

[@lollol4106]

very nice vid. felt a bit like I learned something, I like openGL though, allthough I know that software looks superior to everyone except me. I hope the next lecture or vid covers this topic and makes me feel as moronic as I did when you showed that good vanilla doom 2 texture enviroment. But to keep it frank.This vid is cool. Surprised you dont have 10x the subs.

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Honestly the software/Open GL comment was a bit of a joke. I do think software looks better, but it isn't practical to use it to run a lot of larger maps (until the new software-style GL mode comes out properly in DSDA at least.) Both have their place in terms of visuals but the engine was built for software and I think it just deals with contrast in a far nicer way.

[@lollol4106]

@@NirvanaKZbin yeah I figured it was. But perhaps for another vid, maybe a follow-up, perhaps something about the mapping doom canon? Not like lore canon. But literary canon for doom maps if that makes sense. Even simpler, Maps/Wads you think new mappers should try if they want to get into mapping or improve. idk its just a thought I had when I should have gone to bed instead. P.S. the tune at the start of the podcasts is cool.

[@billabobyt]

@@NirvanaKZbin The software-style GL renderer has been out for a while, it's available in v0.25.

[@kilsya1392]

I'm currently making a megawad and I feel like I'm definitely not the best at having consistent visual design, some things visually are kept consistent but I have such an urge to try something new in every level, maybe this is a bad thing but I'm hoping as a new mapper it will help my levels stand out in a novel kind of way and get a place among fellow creators

[@tonyplushyt2685]

finally. also generally i make 1 arena a day for my map so that i can spend as much time as possible in things like detailing well factoring in things like size of the arena with bigger arenas taking more like 2 or 3 days

[@ShadesMan]

I like this kind of video, as a mapper for doom and quake engine games a lot of this stuff applies to both. complexity for complexity's sake is rarely as effective in these oldschool engines. Less can be more for sure!

[@NirvanaYoutube]

People do get very wrapped up in Magnum Opus syndrome too, never finishing things because they want them to be perfect. Sometimes you have to just release it!

[@ShadesMan]

@@NirvanaKZbin exactly! I do things to get 'em done, much like your earlier cited example I released my own Quake map 'Love Labyrinth' made it in two days! Details where necessary but no reason to make a million faces or polys on a cliff face. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pn20kJ56mcaGj6s

[@HexenStar]

I'd say that the term "complexity" has to be defined in such concept. We all tend to forget that the "golden" gameplay of Doom is there for granted. It was created by ID Software. Even bad looking Id-Tech1-based games (games, NOT mods) made during the golden age of FPS - did not play bad, because their developers understood the above fact thoroughly and did not try to mess around with ID's winning formula. So once we have the gameplay mechanics handed to us on the silver platter, all we need to do - is built great looking maps that are beckoning the player to go in - to fight, explore and want more with each step. Empty corridors, bland square rooms and lack of fundamental design principles - were frowned upon already at the dawn of the FPS genre. (Depth Dwellers - front and center, lol). Today, when we have literally every imaginable technological resource, GZDoom and all - we have no justification to create boring nonsense, except for banal human laziness and lack of imagination. We do need complexity, we do need designs that wow the player with artistic vistas and ignite every Doom-based action-adventure with creative fire, akin to a master storyteller. (Arcane Dimensions? Ahh...but that's Quake ;-)...) The only catch is that some even highly skilled designers forget, that there are two tiers that their genius must address: the visual AND the action. The map design must be made for fighting, not just for sight seeing. As an example, with maps like Verdant Citadel and Vallhalla - it is difficult to decide which one is prettier. Both are thoroughly masterful. But it is very easy to decide which one was designed to play Doom and which one was designed just to look around, as you can literally cheese through most of the opposition. Anyone can build a Doom map. But far not anyone can build THE Doom map. And yet, it is ever worth trying. And failing, and then trying again and again. As the Doom-saying goes: "until it's done".

[@hebonky]

I made a map once that was gray and black with the only accents being the green balefire from the torches, and red. It was very neat.

[@yungpm]

Imagine pools of green water that would go hard frfr

[@Bericula]

​@@yungpmE1M1 in question

[@tylerjennings8242]

14:11 Now I have to watch Last Action Hero. LOVE that movie. Highly underrated Arnold film. I think it’s brilliant.

[@kuroihitsuji444]

you should make a list in the description of the songs you used on the background, they're so great that i wanna listen on my own

[@robacdc1977]

Nirvana, what’s the wad at 4:50 with the Blue Cacos?

[@NirvanaYoutube]

It's a 'remaster' of Breathless I released a few years ago to fix some of the poor design decisions and make it more speedrun friendly. Forum post: www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/124134-breathless-hd-remaster-redux-dynamic-4k-idgames/?tab=comments#comment-2373687

[@robacdc1977]

@@NirvanaKZbin 😎 thanks boss! could I PM you on Doomworld to ask some dumb mapping questions? I'm working on my first maps and I have a theme, concept and direction, I just have no mapping game 😢

[@sobaddoom]

My experience has taught me this is impossible.

[@wowsnav]

it's a video game, not a movie. the map doesn't need to look good, it needs to be fun to play. that's it. I'm looking at enemy positions, compositions, the movement of projectiles, etc. when I am playing. I'm not looking at level architecture and thinking "wow that's so cool and good looking" i'm thinking "SR50 past the wall of 30 archviles to avoid death".

[@NirvanaYoutube]

I don't think any part of the video advocates for visuals over gameplay. I have a bunch of videos on encounter design etc.

[@JaySmith-cd1ln]

You'll have to pry the Fireblu from my cold dead hands! 😁

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Can be a legitimately good texture; see 50 Shades of Graytall!

[@mr-alexander-doom]

Software *is* better than OpenGL! Thanks for making this. I've been on a Doom break lately, but playing the game again has me wanting to get better at the game and maybe make some maps as I improve.

[@aurorafox1283]

Yeah i usually grab doom textures and edit those into osmething new or recolor (mostly lights and lamps). I had one project where its really possible to see those custom textures, but its kinda lost rn and im still searching for the hard drive with it, theres a vid on my channel for it tho, im a person that love to take what exists and change it into something new, i think imgood with making remakes but with different settings, for example i was changing doom 1 episodes from Phobos, Deimos and hell into Tei tenga surface(Replaces Phobos) , underground excavation site (replaces Deimos) and Hell.... Hell i would make a little different than in Doom 1, more flesh mixed with metal on the walls. Also turning Doom ep1 and tei tenga into desert planet was the best idea!

[@Zapidom]

Is there a list of WADs shown in this video?

[@jaodasilva7993]

Can someone make a list of the maps shown in this video?

[@Soaked_Carpet]

Whats the map at the beginning of the video? Id love to play it! :)

[@NirvanaYoutube]

It's wow.wad :)

[@rickwoods5274]

This is yet another reminder that I need to turn the music back on... I've been playing Doom with music off for years now and I've seen a bunch of references to how the music contributes to the atmosphere lately.

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Turning the midi off is blasphemy!

[@ZetaPrime77]

A Homestar Runner reference? Can I get a "BONUS"?

[@asabovesobelow1362]

Lol it took me a while to realize you're the same nirvana as the mapper nirvana.

[@Flikswich]

What's the map at 7:00?

[@PeterLawrenceYT]

But I LOVE fireblu 😭😭😭😭😭

[@NirvanaYoutube]

It's a good texture that deserves more than meme value maps!

[@Doom2isthebestW55]

This video was made after not getting sleep for 3 days it sounds like

[@kwahn106]

Any advice on making midis? I have strong concepts for levels which rely on music that does not exist in midi form - are there ways to convert it? I don't want to use non-midi tracks because compat D: I'm not afraid of spending some $ if that's what it takes!

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Unfortunately I am not musically talented, and don't make my own midi. There are plenty of places to get great midi from (I use vgmusic.com a lot) as well as midi packs and discographies from users available on Doomworld, so should be your first port of call. Sometimes you can find gems on old midi websites from the 90s too :D

[@kwahn106]

@@NirvanaKZbin dang, was hoping you knew a tool to turn songs into midis - appreciated!

[@DoomKid]

@@kwahn106Just to clarify, no such program exists, and it would require such an intensely powerful AI to be able to transcribe each instrument separate from one another. Unfortunately!

[@ryanmarsh2573]

What is the red and black map at around 2:50? Very cool looking.

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Map 13 of Abandon by Bemused.

[@ryanmarsh2573]

@@NirvanaKZbin thanks

[@andarerYT]

For me it's very simple, I just give up mapping and let good mappers do their thingy.

[@joeschmoe6908]

Love the teen girl squad clip! Great video, thanks.

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Always been a big fan!

[@NightridingDoom]

Fireblu * gets banned* Also, Some skies do not like software

[@WigglyStuf]

This video both inspired and discouraged me, lol... now startan doesnt look so good

[@GermanPeter]

This is a really nice video, but your audio is far too quiet. I had all my audio on max and still needed to crank up my headphones just to make out what you're saying. Made it difficult for me to focus on your points, because I had to also focus on trying to understand you. I'd say you're about half as loud as you should be, not because you mumble or anything, but because the volume is just too low. You can fix that in post.

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Yeah, audio levels have always been a bit of struggle to figure out because I had a bad set up for a while. I think my newer videos are a little better!

[@1pcfred]

There is nothing better than Opengl.

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Software

[@nefelibeta2637]

13:55 lol

[@collinvisser7108]

Neat thanks for making this

[@Shinjiuuuh]

the like counter was 420, i ruined the funny number

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Smhing

[@bummbrotha1065]

Why do the best looking wads have to be so unfairly difficult?

[@NirvanaYoutube]

This comes up a lot and my response is mostly just to use the difficulty settings these wads have. I put a lot of work into making sure Fractured Worlds on HNTR hits the same major notes as UV but is toned down enough to be enjoyable to players who don't want a massive gauntlet. All of Ribbiks' wads have great balance on HNTR and HMP as well, and things like Miasma are also toned down decently. It's always worth checking the other difficulties out if you really want to play the wad anyway.

[@bummbrotha1065]

Ribbik's wads are what I have trouble with the most. Sunlust has great balance on it's lowest difficulty setting, but anything higher is just too much for me.@@NirvanaKZbin

[@AmoralPhat40oz]

High energy

[@dron12261]

opengl sucks

[@nathanbeets8229]

But....Fireblu funny.

[@mopeybloke]

Just use Vulkan instead.

[@nirmalakumari4965]

You sound like a slightly higher pitched decino.

[@asthalis]

probably great video but, sorry, I can't stand vocal fry, it's unbearable...

[@SkwisgaarScampini]

This video basically just made me want to quit

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Why do you say that?

[@sveinnrafnsson851]

AI will replace mappers tbh

[@HexenStar]

Vanilla Doom II textures are completely hideous for the most part. There some that can be used well, enough for a tech-base map with some gothic injections, but even through creative combinations the limit is not very far. Over 80% of these textures are wasted. That's why the best maps overwhelmingly use custom textures, which the map makers often make themselves as well. There are multiple reasons for such poor value of the vanilla. For starters, it's primitive artistically. Two - the textures often display some nondescript mess of questionable nature. Three, even when they do try to display something reasonable - the result once again becomes a nondescript mess. Four - color selection below rudimentary. By that i mean not the number of colors, but the number of shades. It's the same difference as is between the story-bought kindergarten crayons and the colors that a proper classic artist mixes himself. (which by the way, is another ever-present issue that the best mappers always solve by using thematically oriented custom textures which provide greater selection of shades). Finally, - excessive tiling. While excessive tiling is an aesthetic/stylistic problem deriving from the technical aspect of inferior source material, but even ID Software designers foresaw that, and tried to amend it here and there by creating more varied textures belonging to the same theme. Excessive tiling in this case means that the textures (or flats) when tiled, - create a highly repeatable and predictable pattern than looks like something that is stuck between 1990 and 1991. Already by mid-90's game designers would not have this neanderthal approach to art-style in their games. This is another pitfall subject that any designer above average skill and working with vanilla - has to overcome. Yes, by some stretch and the noticeable resulting quality drop - some peeps managed to insist on putting even the less versatile vanilla textures in their maps. That, however, does not make those textures truly useful. It just illustrates that as a poorest choice that would've looked much better with a texture selection properly befitting the design concept.

[@DoomKid]

Gosh, I disagree with about all of this. The vanilla textures mostly look fine and have a muted palette that accurately captures the tones we see in everyday life very well given the 256 color palette. Additionally, the maps/custom texture packs that feel the need for everything to be a rainbow are by contrast hard on the eyes, more patience testing and less "fun". By design, to be clear - but still!

[@ruralserf]

What’s the map at 8:25 ?

[@NirvanaYoutube]

Fractured Worlds map 3 :)