Daz 3D : How To Fix dForce Explosions

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Asset Links (see description for details): The Model : tinyurl.com/3s8zcjf9 The Dress : tinyurl.com/ya6zkjrm The Hair : tinyurl.com/2p8yj2fx

[@Biscuits3D]

Whenever I used to get a dForce explosion, either I looked at it flabbergasted in amazement…or I cried out in utter despair, that the echo of it probably would be heard in the 25th century then pulled out my hair and went to hide under a rock…lol But your suggestions are definitely much better Rauko! Thank you again for an awesome helpful video! Super appreciated!

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Just the 25th century? .. that's not THAT much despair .. It's much worse having in mind a few tweaks to a scene - changing one .. and then only remembering the other 4 after 30,000 iterations .. changing the first of the rest .. running the render again .. then remebering the other 3 after 25,000 iterations ... changing the next .. etc etc etc ..... I do that all the time and THAT is what drives me to despair!! 😱

[@Biscuits3D]

@@RaukoDaz3D lmao, The Force is definitely strong with you! ;)

[@stupidlinesonface]

Something to add for anyone experiencing slow simulation times is that you can speed up the simulation by deleting everything off your figure that doesn't 1) need to simulate 2) need to interact with the simulating item. Once the simulation is done, you hit undo and everything loads back on and simulation stays the same. Don't forget attachments like earrings and such. Geografts I usually leave on if there's an associated geoshell. Also mesh grabber helps a ton getting yourclothing/scene dforce ready. Because I generally don't like having to deal with animation in the scene, I'll try to dforce from memorized pose instead, this way I can use mesh grabber and adjust any clipping while figure is in it's default A pose. So when the sim starts, there's no clipping issues and the clothing can sim together more naturally as the figure moves into the pose. Obviously mileage may vary.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Everytime I sit down with an image I have in mind to turn everything "off" as you say before hitting simulate .. and then promptly forget .. "next time" I promise my self .. but then next times comes and ....... Mesh Grabber is a god-send with everything I do .. must do a video on that for the benefit of those who haven't jumped on board with it yet!

[@dsfs17987]

I got into habit of using "Simulated selected" instead of the general "Simulate", I haven't tested actually to see if it is faster than deleting/hiding other things, but what I do is select only the things I want to interact with each other and then "Simulate selected", most of the time works like I wanted it to deleting and undoing sometimes will screw things up in Daz so bad that you have to close the application and restart from save, so I'm very reluctant to use delete/undo and count on it working like intended every time

[@neutral-9734]

You don't have to delete anything. You can just turn off the visibility. Anything that isn't visible isn't calculated during the simulation which is what he did with her hair in the video. What he should have done is turn off the visibility of the individual parts of Genesis, like the head, feet, arms, hands, eyelashes, etc. and anything in the background that the object being simulated isn't going to interact with like the entire room sans the table. The reason for this is when you leave them turned on they are taken into account during the simulation when it is calculating collisions. So if they're not going to interact with the dforce object, turn their visibility off during the simulation.

[@stupidlinesonface]

@@neutral-9734 Honestly I figured that's how it should work, but it simply just isn't my experience with it. The figure simulates much faster with the other items deleted as opposed to just hidden. I just tried it now to be sure. I loaded a G8M then the "Summer Time G8" outfit and then just a basic dforce tshirt. I simulated the tshirt with everything else hidden and it took about 3 minutes. I tried with everything else deleted and it took about 40 seconds.

[@stupidlinesonface]

@@dsfs17987 Weird, I've never had any issues with deleting and undoing general wearables/accessories and this has been my go to method for ages. There has been some issues with geografts and geoshells, so I leave those in. Only time I can remember running into issues with clothing, is when the clothing itself has attachments of its own.

[@edlondon3717]

Great video Rauko! I At first I stayed away from dforce but when I finally understood it and what it can do it's really makes the renders look natural. Also on long hair dforce is a must as well. Thanks for these tips!

[@RaukoDaz3D]

You're right Ed ..and, I am getting round to doing a vid on dForce hair ..

[@farfetchedtangmo7474]

Excellent advice, presented with clarity and humor. And you're right. Dforce is worth it.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Thanks for that .. And dforce can make a huge difference to images - I'm still surprised to see many images that people do where they don't use it and a render can be spoiled because the models boobs look like they are just stuck on underneath a t-shirt ..

[@shadownet3d]

Thank you for all your helpful tutorials. Another thing that can sometimes cause problems with dForce is rigid follower nodes, such as buttons, interacting with the clothing. These, like you did the hair, can be hidden until the simulation is done. Another thing I have come across is the clothing setting, where Redirect, is the default usually has been set to Autofollow (which at times have some advantages) and the hip translation on the base figure is extreme (such as with placement poses) the clothing will often not move correctly with the figure when simulate when memorized bones setting is used. I do not think this is a problem when the simulation is done as you show here using frames and have found it to be a good way to avoid a good many issues . Kudos.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

You're welcome Shadownet .. Buttons can be a right pain .. but, just hide them as you suggest ..

[@NeilRoy]

Very nice! This is exactly why I avoided it, though I have recently messed with it again, this should help a great deal, thanks.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

You're welcome Neil!

[@VintageForYou]

Great video on dForce I like how you have blurred the background.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Thanks Malcolm - glad you like!

[@grayukuk]

Good video! It will be a great day when they make it so only the one Selected item goes into DForce, and not everything else in the scene!! I often forget to freeze items already set up, and then they all go through the system again!! Thanks

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Then today IS a great day .... 😀 .. They're is a "Simulated Selected" option on the simulation tab .. have dforce object in the scene selected .. right click the simulation tab ... and you should see the option ..

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Actually, just noticed .. that's not as great as I think .. (I've barely used it in the past) .. but I've just used it in a real-world scenario and it doesn't work as expected .. it actually ignores other parts of the model .. I used it with a hair piece and the hair just clipped through the model .. I'll have to do some testing on this ..

[@sumdude4281]

Hey man thanks for the great video. I was dying with DForce and your video helped a lot!

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Glad to help you out!

[@nattytempest9886]

Pretty good tutorial. I've turned the corner of 'Dforce evil' to 'Dforce, buggy mess... but might be worth it'... Of course, this would be easier if I were using anything more recent than V4 XD I struggle a bit with figures changing shape (flexing muscles etc) mid-scene and causing pinching into the figure, but I am trying to manage that with some of the 'padding' related settings.. Fingers crossed I'll get somewhere :D Also: smoothing modifiers. Excellent cheap option for hiding the smaller sins

[@RaukoDaz3D]

dForce works perfectly fine these days .. although, it's still too slow for my liking .. but yeah, V4 XD probably won't help you much!

[@PaithanNL]

The sound is great in this one! Thank you for your videos.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching!

[@andykoala3010]

Really great explanation - thank you

[@RaukoDaz3D]

You're welcome Andy! Thanks for watching!

[@TheSquirreldirector]

Brillant, that is a great presentation. Solved a completely different problem I had too. :) "Bend Stiffness" Thanks for that.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Thanks Pete. Glad to have been some help .. even if it wasn't the problem the video set out to fix!!

[@TheSquirreldirector]

@@RaukoDaz3D Yes, it was the answer to the age-old question of... How do you alter the flexibility of certain items? "Bend Stiffness", yeh it's fricking obvious now :) However, I sometimes look out for Daz3d Tutorials. Just watch them and see if there is anything I have missed. Things like: "will this product do something else that it's not designed to do?" dForce is pretty cool and hides a lot of its potential. I sometimes sit and play with objects and twiddle all the dials. But I do actually have to produce some work too. Thanks for your Videos. They are inspiring accurate, human, and most of all really good diction. Thanks again Pete

[@RaukoDaz3D]

@@TheSquirreldirector We;re never too old to learn! You're right about dForce - there is a lot of use in it that's hidden under the surface and I'm surprised - even after all the years we've had it - just how many people still don't use it. But anyway, thanks for watching and your kind words!

[@velvetundergrad]

thank you!

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Glad to help out!

[@TheDevian]

My main issue is the hair, but one of the things I have found it that the hairs that I have the biggest problem with (Linday's) have a slider for thickness. While bumping up that thickness looks great, it basically ends up clipping with itself, and explodes pretty much every time. So, as you have likely guessed by this point, turning that thickness/density down to minimal, simulating, and then turning it back up again helps most of the time so far in my limited testing.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

I've never had an issue with Linday's hairs .. in fact, I don't recall ever having a hair explosion .. so I guess you must have been unlucky ..

[@Pugwash.]

I sometimes add dForce to old hair, and turn self-collision off.

[@TheDevian]

@@Pugwash. That sounds like what I need, how do you do that?

[@Pugwash.]

@@TheDevian It should be in the surface properties. If you filter for "collision" you'll find self collision and collision offset. If you reduce the offset it can help with the finer details too.

[@TheDevian]

@@Pugwash. Thanks, I will give that a shot.

[@johnbrown1313]

Thanks for this! Dforce explosions have been a problem and I really like your simple fix. Could you do separate video sometime on using DF hair? I find it very confusing, both in set up and it seems to take forever to simulate. There must be an easier way.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

There have been a number of requests lately about dForce hair so I'm bumping it up on the priority list ..so it will be coming soon! (hopefully!)

[@IngemarGustavsson]

Thanks! Helped me A LOT!!

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Glad that it did!

[@byondent]

💪🏾👏🏾👍🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾 You Da Man!!!! Thank you brother!!

[@RaukoDaz3D]

You're welcome!

[@joserrat2248]

gracias !

[@vallejomach6721]

Useful tips. The most annoying thing for me with many dForce items is that when an explosion occurs there doesn't seem be a way to easily stop the simulation and it ends up taking ages to cancel out of it...to the point that the best/only option is to force Daz to close and reload the scene. Also, for situations as in this scene where the arm is clipping through the geometry...and the body part isn't actually covered by part of the clothing...could you select say, the upper arm in the scene tab and CTRL+LClick to hide the whole arm from the upper arm downwards to the hand etc during the simulation?

[@Sevrmark]

You can sometimes. Or else you can select the hand and its children, and in Parameters>Display, turn Visibile in Simulation off. That's how I usually this kind of problem, in cases where the hand does not affect the final simulation. If you need the hand to press against the clothing in the final result, then the procedure described in the video is the way to go.

[@edlondon3717]

That is an excellent question! I hope Rauko comments on this.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Stopping an exploded dForce simulation is a pain .. frantic button smashing over the "Cancel" option (when it shows!!) is my usual tactic in that regards .. in the end I'll either stop the simulation or break my mouse .. each is a fine outcome .. Your suggestion for hiding the limbs can still cause clipping if you're not careful ... that's just a bit of Daz weirdness for you .. making the offending limb not "Visible in Simulation" like Sevmark suggests can be the best option ..

[@neutral-9734]

When an object explodes you have to wait for the current frame to finish it's simulation. This is what takes so long. An easy way to get out of a simulation without trying to click the cancel button hoping it responds is just hit ESC on your keyboard. It does the same thing. You'll still have to wait for the current frame to finish simulating though.

[@DDubovsky]

Thank you, Rauko!

[@RaukoDaz3D]

No problems DD ..

[@klb1113]

First of all, thank you very much for this! But I have to say that dForce is the most frustratingly difficult thing that Daz has produced. It STILL needs lots of help. My main issue is that in addition to the render time that you will have to go through to render your final image, thanks to dForce you now ALSO have to go through a dForce simulation. And, depending on one's computer and GPU, this adds even more unnecessary additional time to the entire process of Daz creation. Yes, it's great that there are accurate physics involved, but the end user should not have to play the guessing game of "gee, what caused the explosion??" It's yet ANOTHER thing to worry about in addition to everything else that Daz requires. My apologies for this rant, which is primarily against Daz. (After all, it's the Daz foibles that help keep you in business! 😊) But it's really so, sooo frustrating. I feel sorry for anyone with less than ideal system setups to deal with this additional delay that Daz introduced for their newer products.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Rant away!! 😀 You're right in many respects .. dForce is equal parts great and frustrating .. but it is improving .. In respect of explosions I can't genuinely remember the last time I had one in anything I was doing (certainly when you make sure beforehand that nothing clips into the clothing) ... I had to heavily "cheat" in this video to bring it about and it wasn't just the deliberate hand clipping .. But the speed is the real annoying part .. not only the length of time some older clothing items take to sim .. but when that length of time has to be repeated a few times because the clothing doesn't quite settle "right" in a satisfactory manner and you have to tweak a few things before simming again .. I don't know much about the tech involved in dForce .. but when I look at the clothing simulation employed in apps like Marvelous Designer which does it's simulations in real time .. I do wonder if there's a better way of clothing simulation out there that Daz would do well to include

[@FacemanGaming108]

Very nice video, can you make tutorial to edit Lightning in scene light this?

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Thanks .. Not quite sure what you mean with the lighting? Do you mean how did I do the lighting in this scene?

[@FacemanGaming108]

@@RaukoDaz3D yes, that's what i mean.

[@lumi4784]

Thank you for this, it was very helpful. Was the lighting for this achieved using HDRI? I'm new to your lighting series so perhaps I'll learn this soon. However, I'm also interested in the environment and the pose. The final render looks really beautiful. Do these come in a bundle by any chance?

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Hey Lumi - glad you got something out of the video. Yes, the lighting used was a simple HDRI .. The environment was the Private Library over on the Daz store (tinyurl.com/2p8ue7e7) .. while the pose ..?? .. was just some random sitting pose I had lying around .. I couldn't say what bundle it came from sadly!

[@SuperlativeCG]

Great tutorial! Because of the explosions, I became so frustrated that I had to switch to using Marvelous Designer for the simulations and importing OBJ sequences using the Morph Loader.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Thanks! It's much better now .. Daz themselves have improved dForce so much that I barely see a (un-manufactured) explosion these days ..

[@Pugwash.]

Did you get lucky with her height above the table or just made sure it was correct before filming? Some great advice though. After trawling some daz forums I set Stretch Stiffness to 0.55 and Bend Stiffness to 0.05. I haven't seen an explanation as to why before.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Yeah, I prepositioned her beforehand .. I had to manufacture an explosion so I had to set things up to make sure it happened before I started recording.

[@sugarsugarplum1332]

2 things: When I use DForce, I notice some pokethrough. I have been adding mesh smoothing, and that seems to work to get rid of it. Is that the right way? Also: I create my own clothing items in Wings3D, and I can add DForce to the item (which is NOT rigged, it's an object, not a figure), but I don't see the nodes added to the Surfaces tab (where you set the stiffness). This one has me completely baffled.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Hey Sugar .. poke through is always an ongoing issue - especially after dForce .. Mesh Smoothing can work but there are a few simpler ways too .. Check out this video on Poke Through that I did .. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYS4oo1jbr5sb6M As for your second query .. you have me stumped with that too .. I can't say I've ever experienced that one! Adding dForce to it SHOULD show the sliders in Surfaces tab as that's the point of it .. so, I can't say I can help with that one, sorry!

[@pandamontok8524]

I have another problem with Dforce. I create a cloth, retoplogized it, dforced it. After simulation some vertices creates/spawn spikes. It's very noticable. I searched on the DAZ forum and only find very little information. Have you ever experienced it? It happened with high or low polygon counts.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

There's a few places I've seen this happen .. sometimes when clothing ever so briefly catches on something in the scene .. a single point can get trapped and ends up being left behind by the rest of the clothing resulting in those types of spikes .. I notice it if I don't turn off any geometrical dust that I might have in scene, for instance .. sometimes, also, if before the sim starts if any of thje cloth is intersecting any model in scene .. the points that are instecting get dragged .. finally, I've seen it if I've made limbs / hands "hidden" .. sometimes dForce can get confused and think they are still visible and the cloth ends up interacting. If it's not any of those things .. then it means you've come across something I've not seen before!

[@pandamontok8524]

@@RaukoDaz3D Hemm... those spipkes appears even on default pose, default settings of everything. I can't find any clue on the forum. Do you know how to contact DAZ to ask this kind of thing?

[@RaukoDaz3D]

​@@pandamontok8524 I guess you could try a support ticket via the website (helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new) or the tech support section of the forums .. the examples I've given above are the only times I've come across it so if it's not one of those then I'll be stumped!

[@pandamontok8524]

@@RaukoDaz3D I have send the question to them through the link you gave. Thank you.

[@crazyknitter22]

I did get the odd explosions. I realized pretty much anything that was colliding when it didn't suppose to might be the cause. But I was never quite sure in which order to do the simulations. So, if I have dForce hair, dForce pants and dForce top my guess is I will have to start with the pants, then top and then hair? Or am I wrong?

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Hey Crazy .. ideally, stuff on the bottom should be simmed first .. so in a model with a Shirt, tucked into pants with long hair .. I'd do it that order .. Shirt before pants .. shirt before hair .. that way the hai will lay upon the shirt correctly, for instance

[@crazyknitter22]

@@RaukoDaz3D Thanks. If the top is covering the pants, pants first, top and then hair.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Yeah! That would be the order in that situation .. Sim stuff laying on other stuff last of all ..

[@BrycenStone]

The links to the hair are not working can you tell me the name of the hair please. Thanks.

[@RaukoDaz3D]

It's "Classic Blowout" - you'll be able to find it on the Daz Store

[@jaroslawborzuchowski8113]

How to make animation of hair in the wind?

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Hey Jaroslaw - I have that on my list of "Videos to do" .. I'll hopefully get to it soon .. make sure you're subbed for when it comes!

[@jaroslawborzuchowski8113]

@@RaukoDaz3D That will be great news. Many of us using Daz characters for animations. Thank you.

[@jeysonvonedo]

hi man, whta vellus product do u use for ur characters?

[@RaukoDaz3D]

The main one I use for facial hair is "Peach Fuzz" over on the Daz store (bit.ly/3NtP3Cw) .. But I also use various body hairs that Mousso includes with their latest models ..

[@ageo9886]

the clothes ive done in clo, all still explode for me :( help

[@RaukoDaz3D]

You'll have to help me out first ...... clo? What's that?

[@ageo9886]

@@RaukoDaz3D clo3d . i first use transfer utility and they get distorted , then with dforce they explode and daz crashes

[@user-ht9xd2pz7z]

hey you asset not download

[@RaukoDaz3D]

Those are just links for information purposes and not to downloads