Battle of DIY Budget Treadmill Motor Controller/Power Supplies MC 2100 Vs SCR with Rectifier

I have done several videos on power supplies to use a treadmill motor for variable speed shop tools. The two budget options are to use the power supply that came in the treadmill or an SCR voltage controller with bridge rectifier. Because of these videos I have had a lot of questions as to witch one is the best. I put this video together to compare the better treadmill board to an SCR. This video doesn't really cover much on hook up but the other videos I have do.
If you are thinking of using an MC2100 you may want to watch one of my newer videos showing a problem • MC2100 NOT a Good Powe...
Affiliate links to items in this video:
MC2100:
PWM signal generator for the MC 2100 amzn.to/3z3ivu3
20 Amp circuit breaker amzn.to/3ufQDRh
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Toroid Core for AC inductor/choke amzn.to/3QTk5Zs
SCR Voltage controller:
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100 amp Bridge rectifier amzn.to/40DjWg6
20 Amp circuit breaker amzn.to/3ufQDRh
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15 Amp circuit breaker amzn.to/3FgoQGP
Emergency stop switch amzn.to/43mgveT
3PDT direction switch amzn.to/3ZShNLG
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Toroid Core for AC inductor/choke amzn.to/3QTk5Zs
10K potentiometer amzn.to/3QAtiES
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[@benclark5225]

Lots of clarification of the issues I was perplexed about and now I have a better understanding of the pros/cons of the two options. Thanks for the great video.

[@dazecars]

glad I could help

[@terrencewalsh453]

The 2100 was designed to run that motor, other motor controllers from treadmills are a bit harder to to wire, I just use the panel from the treadmill itself cutting out the unnecessary parts thus keeping the pulse with modulator built into the board intact! I have used SCR's with good success but prefer the original boards! If you're concerned with heat, why not add a fan? Great video explaining the pro's and cons of both! Subscription added, never too old to learn! Again, big thumbs up!

[@dazecars]

Thanks, glad you like it. The MC1650LS can also be hacked like the MC2100. There is nothing wrong with modern control boards they work well and if you have one that works makes sense to run it. Ultimately my personal preference is the SCR due to customizability and simplicity.

[@johnzarollin2749]

Tried that early on but wasn't too practical for me. The PWM circuits are readily available as DIY kits made with a few inexpensive parts or complete. Thee are only three 22ga wires needed between the MCs and PWM circuits. 12V B+, - grd, and the pulse wire. As you know, the rest of the original console can wind up in the can. Mainly it was a lot of the "programing", accessories like elevation and magnetic safety stuff that was unnecessary and cumbersome.

[@dazecars]

👍

[@Level3Lifestyle]

I appreciate the effort into this video, i really wish there was more like it when i was trying to learn this stuff 6-7 years back but there are definitely some things not quite right. I hope this comes across as constructive for yourself and not as "a hater"; i dont agree with it all but i respect and appreciate the time and effort all this stuff takes! A few things of note and my apologise if i missed this first one in the video, but considering what most people here are using the controllers for its worth noting, a HUGE disadvantage of the cheap board is that by virtue of how it works, speed = torque, or there-about's. fine for some smaller applications but nothing under any real load such as belts sanders and can be dangerous if used for something like a table saw. That's due to it not just being "dirty power" that can be cleaned up but its not the "right" power for the motor. The SCR takes AC, chops it up roughly equally as it passes through and rectifies it to a crude DC looking output frequency while The 2100 is a dedicated PWM that converts the AC to DC and sends it to a motor at the correct frequency. It is by-and-large the same as the baldor or KC pwm units you mentioned at the start but your paying more for a more developed product with those- screens, torque overdrive, soft-start control, min-max speed and auto-ramp, IP6# rated, included software, data import/export via patch cable, interchangeable HP resistors, to name a small selection. You can make a real legit KC/baldor grade controller with the 2100, a $10 12v add-on board for the HD2 input and a $10 tachometer if your happy to fore-go the extras. For comparison the small HD2 board's used to just add a clean tach signal to the 2100 is roughly as complex and similar in size as the whole SCR board; a more apt vehicle analogy would be something like a car and a golfcart.

[@dazecars]

I don't think you are hater at all and I appreciate the feedback especially since it was given constructively and I look forward to the debate 😁. I am sure your comments come from your own personal experience and research but they don't quite apply in this application. First of all a PWM and an SCR voltage controller on a very basic level, do the exact same thing. They turn off and on at varying rates. This results in the “effect” of reduced voltage. The ONLY functional difference between a PWM and an SCR voltage controller is a PWM turns off and on limiting a DC current and an SCR turns off and on limiting AC current. RPMs in relation to an SCR or PWM have nothing to do with torque on a DC motor (here me out here 😁) the only factor that effects torque is current. In other words amperage output. If the devise you are using to reduce the voltage ALSO reduces amperage than yes you will experience lower torque at lower RPMs. But if the power supply produces as much or more amperage than the motor needs for max torque you will not see any reduction in torque regardless of RPM. That is the nice thing about a DC motor the torque does not change with RPM if full amps are available. Example if you hook up a treadmill motor to a 12V car battery it will spin at a slower speed than max but have max torque because the battery will have more than enough amperage available for the motor. Put two 12V batteries in parallel maintaining the 12V BUT doubling the amperage output and it will NOT effect torque because one battery already had more than enough amp output and the motor has a limit on how much it will draw. Put two 12V batteries in series for 24V and the same amps as one battery, hook the motor up and you will roughly double the RPMs (there is some loss due to efficiency) but torque will remain the same as the first two setups. The problem with a variable speed power supply is amps and volts are interconnected, that is why a lot of electronics are rated in watts (watts=amps*volts) In most cases lowering the voltage will reduce the amperage. This is true of both an SCR voltage controller AND a PWM BUT if the voltage limiting circuit can produce more amps than the motor requires the reduction of voltage may not reduce the amperage enough to see a significant drop in motor torque. Not all power supplies are created equal. A perfect example of this is I bought 3 different SCR controllers and the cheap ones were horrible. There was a significant drop in torque at lower RPMs, but the one I show in this video is of much higher quality, and It cost me double what the other units cost. I have my metal lathe setup with one of these SCR controllers and I do single point threading in grade 8 material which creates a massive load against the rotational force of the motor. (I am guessing less than a saw blade through wood) Because I am threading I do it at very slow RPM and there is no loss of torque. I would have no concerns hooking up the motor power supply combo I have on my lathe to something like a table saw. Had I used one of the other SCR units the same would not have been true… not even close, and I am guessing that is what happened in your experience. The SCR I am using is 10000W and it produces enough amperage to provide as much torque as the 2100 board would if it was powering the motor at the same RPMs

[@Level3Lifestyle]

@@dazecars Ill give this another proper read over when i have the time to sit down but it looks a really interesting read. Im actually just today going to collect an MC60, an older version of the 2100 that is a scr so i can take a look between them

[@dazecars]

I am familiar with the MC60. I have another video where I compare several different controllers including the mc60 and mc2100.

[@dazecars]

I was unaware that The MC-60 was an SCR type controller. I assumed it was PWM and hadn’t looked into it much more than that other than to do some bench tests with one. I did however think it was odd that they didn't come with a smoothing capacitor. After you said that it was SCR I went out and looked at an MC60 and the main LED is labeled "SCR trigger" It also makes sense because every treadmill I have parted out that had an MC 60 ALSO had a ferrite choke. Thanks for the education. What is funny to me is I have seen a ton of posts that say something like "Don't get an SCR controller they are crap, get an MC-60 instead" 😂😂 I do know this, the MC-60 compared to the SCR I am currently running are not even in the same league. And for performance I would recommend the SCR I am running over an MC60.

[@MuddFlappRanch]

Great videos! One thing, the device that you call an "AC choke" is a common mode choke that is used primarily to suppress RF and electromagnetic interference (EMI/RFI) from the power supply to the AC lines in your home. These are usually needed to meet FCC Part 15 requirements. It will also work to suppress EMI/RFI coming from the AC lines, but that should be minimal.

[@dazecars]

Thanks for the info!

[@sharkbaitsurfer]

Fantastic, clear, concise and eloquent explanation - colour me really impressed!

[@dazecars]

glad you liked it!!

[@rdoyle7813]

Your series of videos and info are the best in content and the way they are presented on the web. Thank you for all your effort. I have a motor control board that I would like to try using with a PWM to control a older Delta wood lathe. I don't have any wiring diagram but I believe it is a quality board as the treadmill was high quality. I am not sure how to wire it or if it could be wired using a PWM. Just wondering if I sent you a picture of it you might have a way to determine the wiring hookup. It looks very similar to the MC2100. Thanks Bob

[@dazecars]

yes contact me through my website and I would be happy to help if I can.

[@paulmanhart4481]

Great intro Day. Like announcing two Gladiators coming out to fight.

[@dazecars]

Glad you liked it.

[@andyb7754]

Very interesting and informative video, thank you. Came across this video just in time for the treadmill motor upgrade to my mini mill! I really like how you explain everything, subscribed.

[@dazecars]

Glad it was helpful, let me know if any questions come up durring your conversion

[@williamnicklaus2203]

Great video - do you have a video on how you were able to select the SCR you currently use, over the others?

[@dazecars]

no video. I purchased 3 drifferent SCR unites and tested them. I got the long skinny one everyone "recomends" a push button digital unit, and the one I recomend. All the other ones I found were variations on those three.

[@Shopbuilt]

Thanks for the video, is it possible to use a 0-10v pwm single instead of the potentiometer with the scr option?

[@dazecars]

You're very welcome I am glad you like it! No you can not use the PWM with the SCR... at least not easily. So "possible" yes practical, no. It's two totally different ways of driving two totally different variable voltage power supplies. The potentiometer is providing variable resistance to an AC current supplied by the SCR which in effect changes the voltage of that current and tells the SCR's electronics how much voltage to supply. The PWM signal generator is sending a pulsing DC current that it creates to the MC2100. An MC2100 reads that he number of pulses and and uses that count to know how much voltage to supply. Could it be made to work, probably with some short of middle piece like a digital variable resistor and or maybe Arduino BUT it would require a lot of extra pieces, design, knowhow and assembly. Please don't hesitate to reach out if I can be of any further assistance. I like your channel BTW. I'm hoping if I keep working at it, my channel will have the popularity yours does.

[@KW-ei3pi]

Excellent info. Thank You. I have two questions. First, I'm guessing that the "High End Pulse Width Modulator" in a treadmill must be built into the large control panel display and is therefore impractical to to use? Second, I have used an Arduino as a PWM, and it seem to work fine. I found out how to do that online. Do you have any experience with this type of Arduino/PWM solution, and if so, how would it compare with the two solutions that you addressed in this video? Thank you very much. The value of your videos on the subject are invaluable. Keep us the great work.

[@dazecars]

The problem is there is more than one type of PWM. Inside the treadmill display is a PMW "signal generator". The aftermarket part I attach to the MC-2100 to make it work is also a "signal generator". The MC-2100 is a PWM "power supply". It generates volts for the motor by pulsing off and on based on the signal coming from the display or the extra component I am using to eliminate the display. What I am referring to when I say "High end PWM" is a dedicated PWM "power supply" thats only purpose is to generate a variable voltage output. Several companies make them and they are several hundred dollars. Make sense?

[@adriancollins]

Great video and good information. Do you have a link to the better quality SCR and the AC and DC chokes you use?

[@dazecars]

Here is the SCR www.ebay.com/itm/403062343943?hash=item5dd8634907:g:q4UAAOSwImRYgLqA The AC and DC chokes came from treadmills I have parted out. They are also available on eBay BUT if you do a search for "treadmill choke" know that most of the listings say transformer motor choke as if the two things are the same and they are not. A transformer will have 4 wires or more and a choke will have 2

[@brendan2599]

Using an arduino programmed to provide the pwm for the mc2100 running my lathe seems to give finer adjustment than your pwm. The soft start feature, while taking some getting used to, is actually a nice dafety feature as my tools dont just jump to full throttle when the power is turned on as well as the gradual start up is easier on the motor.

[@dazecars]

Lots of people have used Arduino and it is a good option as long as you have the skills to set it up correctly. It is by no means plug and play like the PWM I'm using. As to the adjustment, I learned after shooting this video you can change the PWM setting from 100 steps to 1000 steps make the adjustment extremely fine. Glad you have learned to live with soft start. I don't like it and would eliminate it if I was using a power supply that had it.

[@GoPaintman]

The blue wires I’ve gotten in my salvaged motors are thermoswitches. If the motor gets to a certain temperature, it switches like a relay and tells the board to stop.

[@dazecars]

Yep it’s a thermal circuit breaker. Works on the ac side. That’s why I recommend using it on the switched terminals on the Mc2100

[@normanharrison9460]

You mention that your MC2100 jumps 100 rpm for 1 step on your pwm output. I found that was an issue with the pwm signal generators as most go in 1% steps. Great for testing but on my conversion I switched to an Arduino which gives much finer control. I have also bench tested the Raspberry Pi Pico which gives even finer control. The programming is not difficult for a simple potentiometer control. The MC2100 typically runs from 15% to 85% pwm. So with the signal generators you typically get 70 speeds, with the Arduino giving 716 and the Pi Pico giving around 45000 steps. I have done both simple MC2100 controllers using Arduino and a potentiometer through to a touch screen controller using a Raspberry Pi for the touch screen linked with an Arduino for motor pwm. If you can source a reliable SRC controller, that is up to it, then they can do a good job. But, a lot of people have read the headline figure for output for resistive loads and not read on to the manufacturers recommendation that for inductive loads they should operate at 1/3 of this. Hence rapid burn out and other issues. I take your point about spares but I have run my MC2100 board for 3 years now with no issues. I do have a spare I was gifted just in case and this is good for trying out ideas on the bench.

[@dazecars]

I now a lot of guys have had fantastic results with Arduino. For what most of my viewers are doing that is more than they are wanting to mess with. The other nice thing is for a lot of projects the motor is geared down so that 100RPM jump at the motor becomes 20-35 RPMs at what ever is being driven.

[@minskmade]

great video...where was this video 5 years ago when i was doing this :). thanks for tkaing the time to do this..good stuff..great explanation....do oyu have alink for the scr unit you purchased.?

[@dazecars]

I started my variable speed shop tools project about 2 years ago and found the same thing, not a lot of good info. There was lots of info but nothing that I would call "complete" or all that accurate. That is why I put together my web page and the videos I have done on the subject, to provide better, more complete info. Here is the link to the SCR , the price has gone up a little bit. When I got mine the shipping was free. www.ebay.com/itm/403062343943?hash=item5dd8634907:g:q4UAAOSwImRYgLqA

[@BRUNOPIOCAYDO]

Tnx for sharing you video bro.got a problem of my treadmill motor supply .the ckt burst.Now i got an idea to replace it..

[@dazecars]

Glad I could help

[@alchemy1]

I got this Mc2100LTS control board. I am really trying to get to the important stuff, what matters. So I am looking at these pins and the letter associated with them, there are 8 of them The two ends are surely ground and the letter is "g". And with ohmmeter it shows continuity also between the two. 6 pins left. If I recall correctly the second from the top is hot, it says "S". It read 12 volts. It appears you may have hooked up the V+ from the PWM to that pin. Second from the top. Is this correct? The three bottom pins , you have three wires going there. You may have fed the V- from the PWM on that first pin, the ground, "G'. Is this correct? So two wires left from PWM The second pin from the bottom on the control board on my mine it says "T" which I assume to mean tachometer. The PWM one wire is designated as PWM and the other as ground. So the third pin on the motor controller says "P", which I assume to be PWM. So I am tempted to assume that the PWM from the generator goes to the third pin from the bottom of the motor controller which is designated as "P". What do you say? And the so called ground is all that is left on the PWM and "T" on the motor controller. So does the so called ground on the PWM gets hooked up the tachometer "T" on the motor controller? Or do these people live in their lingo universe calling different things by different things.. or something. In fact some of these people who of course sell them have got the same PWM generators labled totally the opposite. I mean the opposite. You have to see it to believe it. These anamolies of nature folks, got the PWM and the ground next to it on the signal generator going to + and - voltage supply and V- and V+ on the signal generator going to the pwm and the ground of the motor controller. I can not tell but from the color of the wiring on your signal generator I see the V+ going up on top second pin "S". It is V- going on the first pin of your motor controller. Or perhaps you can also put the ground on the top first pin too. Unless you have the V- on top and V+ on the first bottom pin? I see striped black wire but I can't tell if it is going on top or the bottom. The ground of the signal generator you seem to have on the second pin of the controller, the pin "T" possibly and the PWM from the signal generator to the "P" of the controller. Is this correct or am I seeing thing all cock-eyes wrong? On second look. It looks like you have the ground and the V- on the first bottom pin on the controller, the second pin is empty. The PWM to the third pin "P". and the V+ to the second pin on the top. That seem to make more sense. I took a snap shot of it and then expanded it. Thank you in advance.

[@dazecars]

Go to my controll board viedo I go over the wiring of the 2100 there.

[@stevenbartlett2057]

Thanks very much. Do the motor input volts not matter? I have a dc treadmill motor that is stamped 90v. thanks

[@dazecars]

Motor input volts is what controlls speed, more voltage more speed, less voltage less speed. The 90V is what gives you the RPM listing on the motor.

[@Mr26Huffy]

Very good info - Thanks! I just setup my old Atlas bandsaw with a treadmill motor so I can cut metal. It all works well but is very noisy. I need to put a filter choke on but not sure what size to use. Can you provide clarity? The filter I'm needing is the one that looks like a transformer with only 2 leads. Thanks again!

[@dazecars]

Glad it helped, here is information on the choke. Let me know if you have any more questions. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYO3kIWfZp2Ygrs

[@Mr26Huffy]

@@dazecars Can you repost I can’t see the info thanks

[@dazecars]

@@Mr26Huffy look at my FAQ videos, there is one specifically on chokes. Then let me know if you have any questions.

[@peter-lz1zk]

i am trying to wire up a pwm frequency meter xy-kpwm to a Hebb industries pulse power combo 110v board which has TELECO cable connectors from the control panel to the board . ive tried several combinations with no luck there's red black and blue wires but no black with white stripe , the red is the required voltage any help would be much appreciated

[@dazecars]

Contact me through my website and send pix of what you are working on.

[@olly69z]

What is the purpose of the little transformer, connected to the MC2100 ? Is it a noise suppressor ? How does it work ?

[@dazecars]

Transformers and chokes are not the same thing even though they look alike. A transformer is used to change AC voltage either up or down. A choke is a noise suppressor of sorts and filters out power spikes. On an MC2100 the component you are referring to is a transformer and is what converts 110V AC down to 16V AC to run other components. The power out that I hook the PWM to is powered by that transformer after being converted to DC and then regulated.

[@SunriseCrawlers]

Thank you im trying to learn this stuff cause I'm wanting to get a dc motor and controller for my laith and drill press and maybe even make a bench grinder

[@dazecars]

Glad I could help, let me know if you have any questions

[@ValleysOfNeptune2150]

How do you get the 20khz frequency required to start the motor

[@dazecars]

I just did a video on that, here you go kzbin.info/www/bejne/oH3UlKmPecSApM0

[@crazyxyze]

Can we run my treadmill in this manner as its control pannel faulty and repare lot of time .Can we used this method to my 2hp dc motored treadmill for 110 kg load .

[@dazecars]

bypassing the treadmill controls can be done but it eliminates all the safety features.

[@lukehanlon9965]

Awesome. Thanks. Is there a cheap way to make or get hold of a VFD for AC motors? they seem to cost around $100+ for a cheap nasty one for australia

[@GoPaintman]

You’ll have a hard time finding a single phase VFD. Also some single phase induction motors won’t work properly with a VFD

[@dazecars]

VFD is a good way to go but you get what you pay for. I have not found a budget way to convert to VFD. That is why I went treadmill motor and I am glad I did. Fantastic upgrade and an outstanding price.

[@paulmanhart4481]

Day, maybe the pwm pot has an audio taper instead of linear? Could you do your trick of dual pots to help it do the same thing as your SCR design? P

[@dazecars]

It is not a potentiometer, it is a digital rotary encoder. The only similarity is the knob and the turning action.

[@lawrenceveinotte]

I'd like to see how you make the AC ferrite choke, iI think your making it?

[@dazecars]

I talk about that on this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYO3kIWfZp2Ygrs

[@MyFargo1929]

I have a electric train in my backyard for my grandchildren. It has two 900 watt 24v pm motors running off a 100 amp ebay dc motor controller I want to hide a speed limiter to control the top speed during unsupervised use. Can I add a second pot somewhere in the existing 5k pot that came with the dc controller or? Ideas? I know i can re-gear the motors but that is a huge job and maynot give me the high end control I want to keep it on the tracks.

[@dazecars]

I would need more information on the power supply.

[@analoghardwaretops3976]

For a variable pot. of 5k ohm that goes from min- max motor speed, i.e. zero to full speed (range100%)... lets assume you want an upper speed limiter of 70%. The simplest would be to have the 5k pot range of 70% .. To limit this you have to introduce a fixed resistor of 30% value..(0.3×5k) =1k5ohms. This 1k5 resistor must be wired/connected in series with the top/upper/hot lead of the 5k potentiometer.... So choose your upper limit and resistor accordingly..

[@dazecars]

👍

[@grog2027]

I have the MC-2100 with rectifier on the board, how does that compare?

[@dazecars]

just like I said in the video the MC2100 puts out cleaner power but is prone to board failure.

[@wfvs1500]

Just wondering if you could reccommend a ohms value for the replacement potentiometer on the SRC voltage controller to utilize 110 VAC? Mine is 500 k ohms which isnt working all that well.. Thanks

[@dazecars]

the best way to do it is set the motor up and test it to find where it comes on then measure the resistance. my website has lots of details on how to do this. let me know if you have any other questions.

[@LanceMcGrew]

What typically fails on these boards? MC1648 (white sockets) stopped controlling the lift motor. Belt motor still fine.

[@dazecars]

I am not familiar with that specific board. On most boards failure is usually the switching transistors or the capacitor

[@paulshermet535]

Do either of these keep the speed up when the load changes? I've built a milling machine and need that feature.

[@dazecars]

I just did a real world shootout on my mill Variable Speed Treadmill Motor Power Supply Shootout: SCR, Variac, & MC-2100 Which one is the BEST? kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5WqqqOvhMSIq68

[@klaytotoo3652]

any clue on what type of Potentiometer wud be needed

[@klaytotoo3652]

for a battery pack

[@dazecars]

oh that won't work. small motors low voltage you can use a potentiometer but for these motors a potentiometer will immediately burn up

[@FLSPEEDFAB]

I keep popping the mosfet transistor on my newly converted belt sander. Only when under load. Any suggestions? mc2100

[@FLSPEEDFAB]

I'm thinking it could be due to a gear ratio problem. Undersized motor to be directly turning a 4.5" diameter drive roller

[@dazecars]

Could be a couple things. I have a video on repairing the MC2100 and when you replace the MOSFET you should also replace the SCR chip as one can cause the other to fail. If it's not popping immediately that is probably not your issue. There is no getting around it, the MC2100 is fragile like glass. I tried running one on my bandsaw and the first time the blade stuck I fried the board. Gearing may help you as amp load and torque required are directly related on a DC motor, but I think you would be better served with a different power supply. Either way when using a treadmill motor you should always figure out the MAX RPM required at the tool so in this case the belt drum and then compare it to the max RPM of the motor. If your motor is rated at 7000 RPM and you only need 3500 RPM at the drum gear it at 2:1 as that will double your torque throughout the entire RPM range and keep you from turning the drum to fast. I have run a quality AC voltage controller with bridge rectifier and motor choke on my lathe for years and put hundreds and hundreds of hours on it without a single issue. I stand by what I said in this video the MC2100 is not as robust as my SCR option.

[@FLSPEEDFAB]

@@dazecars I'm going to try a IRPF260 mosfet instead of the IRPF250 and see if that solves my issue first and if that's a no-go, I'll look into using a quality AC voltage controller with bridge rectifier and choke. Appreciate your quick response

[@dazecars]

So yes that MOSFET will handle more amps but that will require more amps from the upstream source and push more amps downstream of the MOSFET. May work but it is just as likely going to cause something else to pop. Before doing all of that are you able to gear it at all?

[@josevargasrd]

Can use this on an actual treatmill if the controller board doesn't work anymore?

[@dazecars]

you can but I would not recommend it. The problem is it does not have any of the safety features a treadmill needs.

[@normwats3577]

How to connect Thurst lift motor Johnson 1/12 hp to put on my milling

[@dazecars]

I have several videos on using incline motors. Then couple it to the height adjustment shaft.

[@justpastmidnight]

I've salvaged probably 10...ish treadmills. The higher end treadmills have higher quality motors. But I've also noticed that they don't have a choke. Have you come across that? And have you found that they function well without a choke?

[@dazecars]

Excellent question!! High end treadmills have higher quality power supplies. Quality power supplies are almost always PWM. If you are using a quality power supply the power is relatively clean and the choke is not required however it still good to run if you have one. Most of the treadmills that come with a choke are running an SCR based power supply like the MC60, MC70, MC80, MC1000, and MC2000 and with any SCR based unit the power is less clean and needs a choke.

[@justpastmidnight]

@dazecars Thanks for the reply! Hmm... so it's the PWM and not the motor... Makes sense; they all had the MC2100. I converted my wood lathe a while back (before I found your channel) and used the SCR with the push button, 0-100 digital display. It wasn't horrible, but I wish I would have found your video on the different SCR options. The SCR I had been using died, so I'm rebuilding the motor controller using the one you suggested. I'm almost done, but I may keep that for another project. I have 3 more of the good quality motors waiting in the wings. But now I have to build another controller. That means I have to find another enclosure to house the PMW, MC2100, and RPM readout because I'm mounting it on the front of the lathe. 😮‍💨 Darn you. Darn you to heck for making me rethink this... 😄

[@dazecars]

the MC2100 is not a good option IMHO they are not very robust. I set one up on my band saw and fried the board when I stuck the blade. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r37OiGWJjdGSqaM Just an FYI, if your treadmills came with MC2100 those are probably medium quality motors with about 2 foot pounds of torque. The really good ones are 3-5 foot pounds

[@justpastmidnight]

@@dazecars - One of the motors I bought brand new. It was a $800-$900 motor. I bought it for $80. It is definitely high quality and has a ton of torque. It was a replacement for a commercial treadmill. Two others were from high end consumer treadmills... The kind with fancy shmancy touch screen control displays that also doubled as entertainment screens. They both have 3HP continuous duty. They seem to have a good bit of torque as well, but I've only tested one of those extensively. They're definitely much better than the other motors I've salvaged from treadmills. But those two did have MC2100 boards. What do the high end treadmills typically use? And would you recommend the SCR w/ bridge rectifier setup over all of the treadmill motor controller options? Edit: I just watched the video and got your opinion on the MC2100. 😄 I have an MC2100, an MC2100 rev. B, and an MC2100LTS-30. have you tried the different types/revisions?

[@dazecars]

I have worked with all of the different MC2100 boards. they are basically the same and equally as bad in terms of robustness. To relay know what you have you need to use the HP and RPM specs on the motor and calculate out torque kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYHGcqVvpNekkNk

[@daniswarakumaradipta3773]

can they both change direction?

[@dazecars]

Almost any DC motor can switch directions by switching the polarity kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGLTm2aEZq9lrMk

[@shadowcastre]

Excellent video..! What is the cost of the ferrite chokes?

[@minskmade]

they are not expensive.

[@dazecars]

Depends, if you can get a treadmill and part it out a lot of treadmills come with them. people are also selling them on eBay BUT if you do a search for "treadmill choke" know that most of the listings say transformer motor choke as if a transformer and a choke are the same and they are not even though they look the same. A transformer will have 4 wires or more and a choke will have 2.

[@k9taxi]

I got an actual treadmill choke on eBay for about $15. Using it to power my "treadmill" band saw. Look around for a good deal.

[@dazecars]

👍

[@catman4644]

Excuse my ignorance on this but I would like very much to know what the little slider switch beside the output terminals on your SCR controller is for? I have that same SCR controller and I can find nothing that describes the purpose of this switch.

[@dazecars]

It is an on off switch for the fan. Not sure why it is there, there is no reason IMHO to run this with the fan off.

[@catman4644]

@@dazecars Thank you! I couldn't find out a thing about what that switch is for and I wasn't sure if it was important or not but now I know, thanks again.

[@dazecars]

👍

[@bazanexpress100]

My MC2100LS -30 rev board on my treadmill burnt out. I am using an SCR controller and a bridge rectifier to run my treadmill. To clean up the power I want to use the 2 components that you mentioned in this video. Could you provide the links to both the AC and Dc filters?

[@dazecars]

The treadmill likely has the AC choke inside it already. The DC choke can be found used a lot of treadmills come with said choke. Go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word transformer will also appear in the listing. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. To tell the difference count the wires. A choke will only have 2, a transformer will have 3 or more.

[@paulmanhart4481]

Will the MC2100 run any treadmill motor? Will it run my Leili 4.25 and 3.0 hp motors? P

[@dazecars]

You don't judge workability based on HP. Its amps and volts. You can likely use an MC2100 BUT watch this video first kzbin.info/www/bejne/r37OiGWJjdGSqaM

[@AdrianPerez-le2qo]

how many microfaradios is the big capacitor?

[@dazecars]

1500 uf 200V DC

[@davesage9190]

Are you using the term "SCR" generically - or are some of those controllers actually using a TRIAC (both halves of the AC wave are switched - a big difference) A triac controller should give a waveform much easier to clean up.

[@dazecars]

The SCR I am using is not TRIAC based.... I don't think. If I could find a TRIAC based variable power supply that was cost effective I would test it out but all I can find is SCR units.

[@jasen963]

Hi, I’m wanting to put a treadmill motor on my band saw and lathe but I’m trying to figure out the gear ratios. I’m not sure if the treadmill motor will make more torque at higher speeds or at lower speeds. So my lathe is 1800rpm and band saw about 600rpm so should I use a gear ratio to achieve top speed of the machine while the treadmill motor is at top speed or should I run the treadmill motor at lower speeds?

[@dazecars]

A DC motor (treadmill motor) will make about the same torque at all RPM ranges where an AC moter the torque curve changes. When I did my band saw (my web site goes in to great detail on this) I geared it the lowest I could based on how the machine was set up. It is in the neighborhood of 2:1. I also set it up to limit max speed so as not to run the saw faster than it was intended from the manufacturer. Mine has speed range of about 100 RPM up to 1700 RPM. Let me know if I can answer any more questions.

[@jasen963]

@@dazecars I was also going to leave the fly wheel on, do you think the flywheel makes a difference? Also would the motor life be longer run at lower speeds than higher speeds? Thank you for your help much appreciated.

[@minskmade]

@@jasen963 you would have to find that belt then...and have the same type of belt on whatever machine you are making

[@dazecars]

if there is room the flywheel is not a bad idea, but also not required

[@garyrexroad4830]

how about a MC5100 control board trying to get treadmill running again just can figure the wiring i can send you the diagram on it if you can help THANKS

[@dazecars]

contact me through my website and send me pix of the board and the spec sheet if there was one inside your treadmill.

[@Laithalzaede]

Thanks for everything

[@dazecars]

my pleasure

[@monstermax9617]

Hi, I have purchased a scr voltage controller. When I connect everything trademill does not run. But when I connect a car battery it runs. Any idea what is wrong with it ? Thanks

[@dazecars]

Could be lots of things, bad rectifier, bad SCR, things not wirried correctly or somthing else. I would use a digital meter and start checking individual componenets to see if they are working correctly.

[@adilalivlogss]

Can we use DC volts directly without rectifier?

[@dazecars]

A rectifier is what converts AC into DC so if you are working with a DC power supply there is no need for a rectifier.

[@adilalivlogss]

@@dazecars thank you 😊

[@dazecars]

👍

[@dennissheridan1550]

If you are worried about dirty DC with an SCR controller put a filter network on the output of the rectifier to smooth things out.

[@dazecars]

When you say "filter network" what are you talking about? I am not familiar with that specific term and didn't find any obvious answers when I did a quick internet search.

[@k9taxi]

@@dazecars A filter network usually consists of a capacitor to smooth ripple and a choke which you already are using.

[@dazecars]

@@k9taxi I ran a capacitor resistor combo in parallel for a wile but found it caused surging under load. At that point I decided the cleaner power it provided was not worth the inconsistent speed.

[@KW-ei3pi]

I'm trying to use the little signal generator (because I had one), but it will only operate the motor up to 40% on it's screen. Then the RPM starts decreasing. It will not spin the motor up to the high RPM that you showed in the video. I've heard of this before, but I can't remember where. Any ideas why this is happening? Thanks in advance. Regards

[@dazecars]

I do not know. I have not run across that problem with any of my boards. I would guess its one of two issues, either there is something not functioning at full capacity on the board and when you go above 40% you are over tasking that component causing a shutdown OR its some sort of safety feature specific to how that board is set up. But again I do not know for sure.

[@KW-ei3pi]

@@dazecars I did find the video of the guy having the same problem. He traced it to a loose resistor. Thanks for your help. You are becoming the "Go-To Guy" for treadmill stuff. Regards

[@dazecars]

@@KW-ei3pi It is likely not "loose" but rather cut. Manufacturers make one board for a bunch of different applications and then clip some of the components to configure the board for a specific set of parts. I would guess that is the case for your board to limit max speed. What is the link to that video?

[@KW-ei3pi]

@@dazecars kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJjXpmiud9Rplbc

[@KW-ei3pi]

@@dazecars Well, I tracked down my problem, but not the answer. I am building a 2x48 belt grinder. It has a 6" drive wheel mounted on the Treadmill motor shaft. No Flywheel. With the sanding belt mounted, the motor won't go above 40-50%. Above that it starts slowing down to almost a stop. But with the sanding belt off, it revs up fine up to 95%. It would seem that even the slightest load and it maxes out at the 40-50% mark. I'm thinking it must be a bearing problem but I guess I will have to try some other signal generator before I do much else.

[@blender_unleashed]

Yo have you ever considered just using a Variac into a rectifier and choke + capacitor? That's what I do on my belt sander

[@dazecars]

I was made aware of this option about a week ago and have ordered one to experiment with. Should be here today. I will make a video of it compared to other options like the SCR

[@blender_unleashed]

@@dazecars the only thing I can think is my belt sander slows down under load pretty easily I wonder if it's because of the variac

[@dazecars]

@@blender_unleashed thanks for the heads up. What amp is your variac? All of my power supply comparisons have been based on observation. However I plan on building a small motor dyno and in doing so I will test how each type of power supply effects torque. I have also thought about getting an oscilloscope so we can see just how consistent the power it given each power supply.

[@blender_unleashed]

@@dazecars the one I'm currently using is rated at 15a at 120v

[@dazecars]

👍

[@majidsignshop4903]

💯

[@dazecars]

👍

[@eligijuspranskunas3509]

what about back EMF ??

[@dazecars]

What about it? Counter EMF is a force most DC motors have. Neither of these powers supples have any issue running a treadmill motor.

[@connorbabcock8197]

Do you know of any treadmill lists any hobbiest's have compiled make sure I can find one with the components I want?

[@dazecars]

No lists, I have scrapped 15 treadmills and they were all different. They all had usable parts but some were way better than others. It took me 3 years to find those treadmills. I search regularly. Listings come up for free units because people don't want to mess with moving them. or because there is something wrong with them.

[@danyf3116]

Has anyone ever looked at the output on an oscilloscope? If my board was running, I'd do it but I only have the SCR type right now.

[@dazecars]

I was originally going to buy an oscilloscope specifically for the purpose of making this video but ultimately decided it didn't add much to the video other then to show the benefit of adding the choke and inductor to the SCR controller. As I conceded at the beginning of the video the MC-2100 does produce better power but due to all the other advantages of the SCR that is why I gave it the "win"

[@jacekf]

SCR controls timing of a sinewave so you vary PWM and amplitude (voltage) the other provides full voltage and varies only PW more power at low RPM!!!

[@dazecars]

not exactly. An SCR doesn't do anything to change the sine wave. "sine wave timing" would be a VFD. The wave is still the same just pulsed on and off. An SCR turns on and off rapidly just like a PWM only on the AC side. Yes a PWM pulses full voltage but the result is reduced voltage, that is exactly why the speed slows. a pulsing of full voltage has nothing to do with torque at low RPMs. Torque is a function of AMPS not volts and the SCR has just as much torque at lower RPM. I did a real world shootout comparing the SCR, MC2100 and VARIAC. The MC2100 and SCR performed about the same at full range of RPMS BUT the SCR is far more robust and less prone to failure.

[@babangsutejo3809]

You are so great ..

[@dazecars]

Thanks, glad I could help

[@garyrexroad4830]

Your web doesn’t have a send or anything that I can put pic or diagram

[@dazecars]

There is contact information on every page of my website. On the home page scrole over "about" and the drop down menu will have "contact DazeCars"

[@jvmiller1995]

People saying not a true DC don't no Shit. The current out the rectefire only travels in one direction the very definition of DC. Only it is pulsating at 60 cycles here in the USA. Just turning on and off.

[@dazecars]

You are correct it is in fact DC. I do want to address one thing you said however 60HZ AC running through a rectifier results in DC that pulses at 120HZ because you have effectively cut the wave in half and folded it over on it self. Thanks for the comment.

[@jvmiller1995]

@@dazecars That makes sense

[@dazecars]

👍

[@faruxxfarux1063]

MC2000 мотор контроллер потерял..... можноли заменит MC2100 для Nordic Track 3700

[@dazecars]

eBay

[@T0tenkampf]

you mention in your other video that this particular SCR had quality internal components. Id love to know what those mfg are because I am well aware from musical instrument electrics from china that they will clone their own product if it gets good reviews and then make it with inferior stuff just to bank on the name.

[@dazecars]

It is not a brand name or anything specific like that. It is the quality of the components used ESPECIALLY the switching transistor. It is a high wattage unit much larger than most used on cheaper units.

[@klaytotoo3652]

yo - - - smacks himself in that head.. you/we may controll our DC motors with asmall DC battery bank with either lead or bettter Li-Ion battery pack. and even have in addtion to 110/220 ACDC wiring circuitry -- I quess U/we cud still use chokes .. but moxtky heavy curret switches etc,- - I think all we'd have to have is maybe a fuse and a potentiometer control swhitch... moder Lithem battery even it Britan they use to hool up a DC generator to a electric Motor to have a motor/generator fo DC set up an-flip tha switch =insant DC K

[@dazecars]

chokes not needed at all if using battery power

[@paulmanhart4481]

For those about to die, we solute you!

[@dazecars]

👍

[@miken3260]

Why would you need a motor controller? They are on the treadmill and people give them away all the time. I have gotten five of them for free. That company Got Junk, I bet they have hauled thousands of them to the scrapyard.

[@dazecars]

I answered that in the video. A treadmill controller has treadmill features, requires the use of the treadmill control panel, and is not as robust in many cases. Why make something just work "okay" with features you don't like/need when you can make it work exactly the way you want for very little money.

[@toehacker7146]

LG Direct Drive "Noise Filter EAM63891317" maybe a cheap option 🤔

[@dazecars]

I have scrapped a microwave or two in my day and most of them have a noise filter board. If I ever get around to getting an oscilloscope I will test the microwave noise filter between the SCR and rectifier and see if it make much of a difference.

[@garyrexroad4830]

can you im me so i can send you info on the mc5100

[@dazecars]

Contact me through my website.