Composer Ravel COMPLETELY DESTROYS a Waltz

[@DBruce]

Shout-out to @tantacrul for help with the laser beams and fire in the thumbnail 😄🔥

[@luigivercotti6410]

David Bruce Composer The thumbnail is the best part, too, reminds me of the war of the worlds aliens

[@IverCardas]

Come on Bruce, who is the guitarist you mentioned?

[@trudywretched]

@@IverCardas Yeah, do tell, I mean gosh!

[@gradyking4739]

I was thinking of tantacrul when I saw it!

[@Tantacrul]

'twas a fine video 👏. Never listened to the piece before. Thanks!

[@MusicByMack]

What a fantastic analysis. Now I'm depressed.

[@princeandrey]

Well I knew it since the first time I heard it, oh, maybe 60 years ago. But then who doesn't know it immediately upon hearing? The analysis is what matters here!

[@isaacweston6066]

I guess you could say he…unRAVELs it. No, I'm not sorry.

[@AugustBurnsSam]

"Unraveling Ravel" was the name of my final Music History paper.

[@isaacweston6066]

@@AugustBurnsSam Solid title 👌

[@PrinsTan]

Maurice to be learned from his compositions if you pay close attention

[@0live0wire0]

@@PrinsTan clap clap clap

[@joetowers4804]

Did you raise your pinky finger to your lips after you typed this?

[@wojtekwieczorek6397]

Ravel destroys a waltz with TELEOLOGY and DECONSTRUCTION

[@45calebt]

ok, that was epic

[@BarackObamaJedi]

Made me laugh out loud, thank you

[@CalamityInAction]

Waltzes don’t care about your teleology

[@AndrewBeals]

It's super effective!

[@gvidalq]

fucking philosophy too

[@markhh]

I always imagined La Valse as a kind of parable of obsession. Beautiful couples in a great ballroom delight in the waltz and the heady feelings it engendered. But it’s never enough. More, more, delight turns to obsession and ultimately madness and death as they dance on till they finally drop. A kind of mass hysteria/Red Shoes ending.

[@paules3437]

Ever read Edgar Allen Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death"? It has a scene almost exactly like the one you describe: desperate people waltzing. Check it out.

[@paulrosa6173]

That's what I thought it meant too. Like the ID bubbling up! Freud and Jung in Vienna at the same time. The movie back in the early 70s "Savages". When I heard it was somehow war related it started to sound too pretty.. Like Ravel was still too polite or civilized to really write it in. This video makes it clearer.

[@neocleouscomposer]

My piano teacher at one point in her life had a teacher who was a student of Ravel's. I'll never forget when I played the Menuet from the Tombeau de Couperin for an Armistice Day celebration concert (I much preferred the Forlane but the Menuet was easier on the ears in the opinion of the concert organisers). I received guidance from this teacher, which she, in turn, had received from her teacher many years prior, with the chain leading back to Ravel himself. I've been absolutely enamoured with all of his music ever since, but the Tombeau will always hold a special place in my heart. I'm certain there's a theory nerd much nerdier than myself just waiting to pounce on this comment and correct me, but I agree with your interpretation that the harmony at 8:06 is more about the geometric movement than the harmonic relationships in and of themselves. And to tie in the anecdote above, a lot of the guidance my teacher gave me does make me think that this would be the case. While about some things he was very particular (despite what most performers seem to do, "absolutely no rubato whatsoever before the very end" she told me he had said) it seems that about others he was more about communicating a feeling -- I like how you put the bit about how the Valse begins, something about a "primordial swamp". Sort of painting a picture with big, broad, brush strokes -- but absolutely not impressionist! Wouldn't want to upset Ravel himself! ;)

[@jackrobinson5671]

Hi, this is Jack who you met at a student workshop at the centre for young musicians a few weeks ago. Just wanted to say I really enjoyed meeting you and wish for you to continue making your videos!

[@DBruce]

Hi Jack! It was great to meet you too. I hope it was useful - I felt my brain melting towards the end so not sure how coherent I was! All the best

[@MarkWladika]

"Serious Theory Nerd" was the name of my first punk band.

[@pepijndeputter8892]

I'm gonna call my prog band: Just fucking around

[@riccardostopazzola7931]

2:22 What an interesting key. Both Bb and F7 are the tonic chord :D

[@JanooProductions]

haha yeah he missed the V7, but well

[@conoranderson4720]

polytonality ;)

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

Why limit oneself to just one tonal center, when you can have two or perhaps even more? ^-^

[@notefunctioncollapse]

He didn't miss the V7 chord. It's only a change on the melody but the chord is still B flat until the 5th bar.

[@0live0wire0]

@@notefunctioncollapse yes and he misspelled F7 as I, hence the comment

[@MauriceGuibot]

Ravel has been my favorite composer since I discovered him when I was 15. I had to play jeux d'eau at the piano even though it was kind of out of my league haha. I learned many passage of the concerto in G. For me ravel stands out by his perfectionism, and minimalist approach. He choose the notes you have to play very carefully. If you like romantic piano pieces, make yourself a favor and go check all the Valse nobles et sentimentales.

[@callum641]

This is literally me

[@WhiteTreeRightful]

I chords at 8:54 are really quite simple. It's just (giant steps)²

[@bitchslappedme]

David has pointed out previously, as well as some of Coltranes colleagues, that Giant Steps is just something taken from Slonimsky's Thesaurus of scales and melodic patterns. Which was published in 1947. Ravel died in 1937. So it doesn't make sense to say a previous idea is like a more recent idea, it would have to be the other way around.

[@vine2197]

ª

[@RyanRenteria]

hes not wrong to make the comparison though. these kinds of ideas were floating around in ravels head long before la valse. heres a moment from gaspard de la nuit kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHKZep9pgsSYfMk

[@sporeguy99]

In regard to that section at 8:04 I'll throw in my two cents. The two fully diminished chords moving in contrary motion are a half step apart and together they form the half whole diminished scale (C, C#, Eb, E, F#, G, A, Bb). The scale is symmetrical, like a circle completing itself (or the circle of life and death for the waltz). The waltz's 3/4 time also feels like you are going round and round as well. You said that Ravel state that he wanted the piece to end in a "fantastic and fatal whirling" and that scale definitely throws you off balance. Edit: I just realized that the ascending chords that are moving in stepwise motion are actually outlining their own half whole diminished scale as well. That's really cool!

[@gonzadiazsola]

yes that's it

[@knasigboll]

This is one of my favorites! I always loved the juxtaposition of the merry waltz and the underlying darkness bubbling underneath, but I always just kind of it emotionally. Cool to see sucha cerebral breakdown of it.

[@tamed4171]

I'm so glad you're talking about this piece, it's one of my absolute favorite pieces of all time.

[@DiscoInTheNunnery]

I'm no theory nerd, but I have been practicing the last 2 minutes of this piece on and off for the past 4 years, so perhaps I can offer some not useless subjective commentary. I agree with your suspicion that it's geometry of the section at 8:48 more than anything else that allows our ears to accept it as music. Especially in the orchestrated version, it's the contrapuntal nature of the music that sticks out more than the harmonic relationship between the upper and lower registers. Another thing to notice is how the tritone relationship is repeatedly emphasized throughout the final section, as well as the chords that appear after the glissando section that "sit on top of each other" like the F# minor and bass G, A minor and bass Bb etc., (Also a minor thirds progression). These are just begging to be resolved, perhaps not unlike the tritone wants to slide to the V (while hinting at the ii ??). That being said, there does seem to be some interpretable harmony in places, if only incidental. For example, at 9:02 we see overlapping tritones at bar 3, but the bass chords in the next three bars could be interpreted as extensions and/or alterations of the chord above it.

[@franzliszt5087]

You can just tell it’s going to be virgin central if it starts with “I’m no theory nerd, *but* .”

[@moncor3]

When we played this piece in my orchestra, our conductor made a similar point in a short speech to the audience; Ravel may have denied it, but this work illustrates the direction that the war gave the arts at the time so well, no matter if it was intended that way exactly. Just ripping apart that happy, bourgeoise, colonialist lifestyle that the waltz embodied. Everything leading up to the ending, and especially that quadruplet in the last measure is just so... devastating... it is way more emotional to play/hear than a piece titled "La Valse" should have any right to be. Thank you for this great video!

[@longhaulblue]

"Ravel's mastery of orchestration borders on the obnoxious..." I feel your pain. Lol. It's not unlike Bach's mastery of fugues. Oh yes, and thanks for the chordal breakdown of those chromatic passages. Always curious about how composers "invent" new harmonic structures that while discordant make sense to the human ear.

[@karlpoppins]

It's all based on intervalic consistency. When in doubt, just use ascending patters of minor 2nds or 3rds :)

[@0live0wire0]

Mostly by using patterns and solid counterpoint.

[@BosseLasse1]

Trial and error plays a part. It's underrated as fuck.

[@6695John13]

Ravel was a creative genius. I know that word is bit overused these days but Ravel truly was. The more I delve into his pieces the more I am amazed by his genious and his perfectionist nature.

[@longhaulblue]

@@6695John13 I concur. But I think I understand what David means when he remarks jokingly on Ravel's prowess at orchestration. As a composer, really as an artist, it's not enough to just have technical virtuosity. The cliche is art has to say something about the human experience. I will say this, though, and I think David might agree, that being "clever" is very human. It's why we humans get jokes.

[@handznet]

Those progressions are absolutely stunning, totally crazy but makes perfect sense.

[@vrixphillips]

It was my dream when I was a piano performance major to find another piano major and a visual arts major who could put together a film of dancers and war-clips while we played the 2-piano version of La Valse. A pity I had to drop out for mental health reasons >.< oh well.

[@dill_peanuts_]

THIS WAS AMAZING! Make more Ravel videos any time you want cause I’ll gobble them up in a heart beat!

[@lucasfmhomem]

I absolutely love La Valse, but I'm the one guy that prefers the solo piano version over the orchestral one. The intro always made me think of being outside the music salon before going in, like if the dark sounds of the street (and the war outside) are mixing with the quiet music coming from the party, and then you enter the salon and get to leave reality for a night, being welcomed by smiling people to enjoy the nostalgic extase of a beautiful and passionate viennese waltz. Great video!

[@DBruce]

was just watching Yuja Wang's performance of the piano - version. Electrifying!

[@zacharydavies5599]

I think Glenn Gould composed his own piano arrangement, which is an incredible piece in its own right.

[@lucasfmhomem]

@@DBruce oh yes, it was Yuja herself that made me fall in love with La Valse, but I also strongly recommend Seong-Jin Cho's and Dong-Hyek Lim's versions, two amazing pianists of the new generation.

[@lucasfmhomem]

@@zacharydavies5599 that's true, and I believe Gould also mocked Ravel's transcription for solo piano haha, but as it happens I don't like Glenn's interpretation very much (although I don't know if it's because of his arrengement or his playing style for the piece).

[@zacharydavies5599]

Lucas Homem I don’t think it’d be out of place to say Glenn Gould is a kind of musical Marmite. Whenever anyone listens to a recording of his, the first thing that often comes to mind is “Gould” rather than “Bach” or “Ravel” etc, arguably more so than any other interpreter, which creates debate on the role of the performer. I find it interesting how, ignoring his amazing piano technique, his work still polarises listeners nearly forty years after his death. Pretty cool

[@shantihealer]

Wonderful to have such brilliant analyses of pieces of classical music as here. This isn't done nearly enough, thank you indeed for your work!

[@shipsahoy1793]

Dave, I’m just a musical simpleton, so analyzing the snazzy contrary motion of multiple harmonies would give me a big headache, it boggles my crippled mind, but I love to hear you talk about this stuff. 😁Cheers!

[@jaapcramer]

What happens 8:04 harmonically gets easier to see when you plot it on a neo-riemannian Tonnetz. The octatonic descending progression of the lower parts is just one diagonal band on the tonnetz. Of the flurry above, from the chords in sets of 3, each 2nd is part of the octatonic lower part. Each firist has only the 5th of the triad in common with the stuff below. The tritone substituted one, I think, is replaced with a Major in stead of a minor, because the minor one would include the third (which is the top note) that would have been part of the octatonic stuff below, and appearantly he didnt want that.

[@luigivercotti6410]

Rated R For Ricci positive-definite

[@mostlyokay]

Oh wow, at first I thought you were just saying needlessly complicated gibberish, but turns out it's all true. Neat!

[@robertoa.m.3984]

I'm surprised no reference is made to Ravel's Valses Nobles.....a very clear statement of his views. The second is clearly phantasmagorical.

[@AhimSaah]

I see La Valse's distortion and destruction of the 'valse' as being a parallel to the collapse of the Austria-Hungarian empire. There is a moment, where the pianist strikes a cluster (actually 3 tones in the extreme bass register but it sound like a cluster) which I see as a point of no return, where it becomes clear the the empire will endure the inevitable. I speculate Ravel would have written a totally different composition had he finished it before the war. After the war and all the atrocities he, being a Frenchman, simply couldn't have afforded to write a piece about the beauty of the Viennese waltz. His love for this genre was devastated by the outcome of the war. I played the two pianos version. The kind of playing you have to use stretches from the grace of Mozart to the pounding chords of Prokofiev and beyond. I loved it for its uniqueness!

[@accordingtosophia]

Ooh, that would imply why he would deny it was influenced by the war! Maybe he'd try to keep politics out of it so he could have as large of an audience as possible...

[@charlieclark983]

Once you've seen George Balanchine's ballet La Valse, you'll never think of this score this same way again. Thank you Mr Bruce.

[@pablov1973]

Thank you for this very clear analysis of La Valse. I'm a Ravel's music lover, specially orchestal pieces, but I love all his music, and La Valse was the work that took me more time to understand.

[@robertoa.m.3984]

I had a terrible rowl with a teacher at the Vienna conservatory about this! I held it was Ravel's intention to pay Homage but also deconstruct and collapse the Waltz.

[@nicholaswerner8170]

I just heard la Valse on the radio yesterday, for the first time in my life. Now I'm seeing a video you just made of it... How funny.

[@handznet]

La Valse is probably my most favorite of Ravels music - amazing piece, with nice melodies and bombastic moments.

[@GothicKin]

When I found out about this piece I didn't know anything about it and I loved it instantly because it felt to me as if Ravel wanted to unearth and praise chaotic and barbaric soul of what became the most formal and rigorous construct, the dance. How under the scripted and false expression of a delicate waltz there's an urge for a comfortably chaotic tearing apart of this structure. Which extends naturally to other social interactions. It's an ode to dissonance. I think the reason why people can't let go of the world war reading is that they associate dissonance with bad and evil, but this piece is trying to tell that dissonance is another way of sounding good and it marries it perfectly with the more classical harmonies we're used to. That's my 2 cents anyway

[@DBruce]

I like that, very interesting thought, thanks.

[@TheMikkis100]

You're doing videos on everything I like: Ravel, Sibelius, Adams. Waiting for some Debussy soon then. Love your channel!

[@swannswan8663]

in reverse order, right-hand reveals itself: F# A C - A C Eb - C Eb F# (Gb) - Eb Gb A ---- Chords are arranged as a succession of diminished chords with common notes. connection of 5th is clear D F A - A C# E then each of both hands goes their direction. (The symmetry can be seen from the beginning C /G#m - A/Dm, C/G#m, ? should be Eb/Dm). The upper part goes chromatic with the diminished 5th substitute of every 3rd note. Or in upper part, you can say m2 + P5 where following 6 -4 inverted chord, which is of course not a passing chord here; this arrangement allows successive movement with ease within a polychord territory; has a previous note as it's fundamental- that is to say, 5th of the previous chord becomes root. Question is do you "have to" classify these connections vertically? they all have their own life, their own plans.

[@abydosianchulac2]

Aaaand that's an instant subscription for me. I first encountered La Valse in concert by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra as a non-headliner offering, and it left me stunned and in tears. Thanks for the excellent breakdown of just why it is such an effective piece. (It's funny, but I never saw it as the death of the dance-form but the death of the care-free world the socialites had built up. All I see in my mind's eye while listening to that ending is a hundred couples in white tie, swirling around a gilded ballroom, oblivious to the fact it's also on fire and crashing down around them. Just my two cents.)

[@stynway59]

But of course, the death of the dance-form was the perfect musical image of the self-destruction of the old, elegant and brittle social structure. Both broke apart under their own unsustainable weight

[@BrunoRibeiro-gj5ds]

Great video! I think the passage around 8:08 creates another hemiola. The purpose of the right hand notes geometry is to create a feeling of duple meter against the triple meter on the left hand.

[@TheNightBender]

An interesting observation is that these long linear pieces that have the shape of one long build-up are also common in prog- and post-rock. My favorite example is Tendresse by Man is not a Bird. Such a structure can create an epic, larger-than-life effect, which I am personally very fond of

[@thomasreillymusic]

Love these analyses into specific pieces of music which go deep. Would love more in this vein! As always, greatly appreciate your content. Cheers!

[@studiotakt3865]

I second that!

[@andreasraab6056]

Zur konstruktiven Mitarbeit fehlt es mir zwar klafterweit an Kompetenz. Nichtsdestotrotz kann ich sehr wohl erkennen, dass dieser Beitrag ein Vorbild an Pädagogik, Inspiration und Weitwinkel ist. Toll! Danke!

Ravel really plays alot with dances and their shapes; for the anecdote all 3 songs from the "Don Quichotte à Dulcinée" cycle are based on traditional Spanish dances^^ Also, thanks for the great video David, fascinating as always! :D

[@kirkwahmmet8406]

with facts and logic?

[@henrique88t]

This is that one video that makes that nice and cool channel become one of your favorites and you have to keep one eye out for every new upload. What a FANTASTIC and impactful analysis.

[@highvibee]

Waltz or 3/4 is my favorite time signature. Thanks you for a wonderful channel!

[@nandoflorestan]

Bb4 is my favorite note. This piece has both my and your favorite things! It's so good! This makes me so happy that I will refrain from debating you, since my favorite time signature is 5/8 -- so much better than yours. By the way, what is your favorite dynamic marking?

[@yubtubtime]

Absolute favorite Ravel piece. So glad to see someone give it the attention it deserves!

[@etepeteseat7424]

I think this might be more of a case of polysemy. It seems to me that Ravel may have originally, perhaps even always, intended that bombastic finish to represent the exhausted mass of humanity on some great phantastic Viennese dance floor crashing to the ground with the close of The Waltz; as if the whole thing consisted of the total sum of all Viennese court balls, all Strauss waltzes -- the Platonic Form of The Waltz. And yet, the world in 1920 was not the same world it had been in 1906, and even if that was the sole intention of the piece, it could never be heard as only representing that after the species-wide trauma of the Great War. So, in a sense, the piece resides in that liminal space between Victorian/Edwardian optimism and 20th Century fatalism, a sort of Lost Generation lament on the world as it had been -- The Waltz in Effigy.

[@stynway59]

I suspect he intended to write the apotheosis of the Viennese waltz, put it to bed once and for all and all that it had represented

[@Simon-ts9fu]

Regarding the “chromatic polytonal chord progression” at 8:00, I can think of the following at least. The first thing to notice here is that each group of three notes is the same melody as the melody in the climax starting some 36 measures earlier, which is based on the 3rd and 7th of the chord (Gm7, then FM7), where the 3rd is approached chromatically from below (melodically and harmonically), voiced as a triad rooted on the 3rd (Bb/Gm, then Am/F). He then starts a sequence of parallel transpositions of this melodic pattern in ascending minor thirds, but extending the chord downwards a (minor) third and augmenting the 5th (D/Bb+/Gm, F/DB+/Bbm etc.) (These may be called GmM7(9) etc.). So in the first GmM7(9) chord the melody is harmonised by an F#m triad approaching either a D or a Gm triad and the last melodic note is harmonised by a D triad. So in the passage at 8:00 the first and fourth chords in the right hand in each measure could perhaps be interpreted as approaches (appoggiaturas) to the ascending sequence of mM7(9) chords in minor thirds. So the chords in the passage shown would be AmM7(9), CmM7(9), EbmM7(9), GbmM7(9), AmM7(9), CmM7(9). One should also note that the B 1-2 diminished scale is very prominent in the right hand, which suggests an B dominant sound (and makes most of the notes into passing notes ;) ) resolving to the E chord just after the shown passage. And the non root tones in the descending triads in the left hand(s) should probably be analysed as timbral rather than harmonic (they are essentially just overtones of the roots) such that a Cdim chord is outlined, which again resolves to E.

[@samuelmincarelli5051]

Ravel Shapiro DESTROYS waltz with facts and logic.

[@WEEBLLOM]

a

[@nou6990]

@@WEEBLLOM gulliom will you destroy a waltz too

[@WEEBLLOM]

@@nou6990 a

[@edwardchen9619]

OMGGGGGGGG NOT RAVEL BEING ALPHA

[@Budolf]

Sigma ravel DESTROYS the woke waltz

[@charleshudson5330]

Another wonderful video. Packed full of information. And analysis. The piece was intended for Diaghilev and his Ballets Russes, but Diaghilev rejected it, saying, it's "not a ballet. It's a portrait of a ballet." Which ended their friendship. As a pianist, I love the solo piano version, rather than the original four-hand composition, in which Diaghilev was introduced to it.

[@alicecairn7807]

Regarding the melazzle (8:50), the upper parts are a sequential pattern (up a half step then a perfect fifth) in ascending minor thirds in the opposite direction to the lower parts, with a 2:3 hemiola again. While there are just as many fifths up as fourths down, the fourths down are over the changes in the beat, making them more significant in terms of opening and closing, but still allowing the sequence to rise. This gives it the dramatic rise in tension while also producing that feeling of tightening and closing up (I imagine a rope being spun so hard it starts to twist on itself into contortions and apparent knots).

[@androidwalle4932]

Great piece of work (yours and Ravel's). However, I would have loved an analysis about the rhythmic killing of the waltz as it strikes me everytime. For me it's the climax of the piece, it sounds like the waltz overtakes itself.

[@michaeltroke7239]

Very intelligent stuff, David, without any pedantry; excellent, and thanks

[@PianoScoreVids]

2:49 I'm like JUS.. BRAHMS

[@vincentellin3821]

I always thought of la Valse as the destruction of the dance(the waltz).....when I mentioned this to a conductor once when he was conducting it with us, he didn't think of it that way......I'm reassured that it strikes some this way........love your channel btw......

[@keybawd4023]

I came across this channel by accident, and loving Ravel's music "this side idolatory", I decided to listen. I always thought myself a bit of a Ravel expert, attended Perlemuter's Masterclasses, played the G major concerto in public ... in other words, fairly knowledgeable and very cocky. Loved your analysis (all but the silly comicstrip stuff). I learnt a lot and your visual explanations are great. I could follow them but music loving friends would not. They are very fast and in general very short. I shall follow your channel.

[@ollisaari8722]

Hi, thanks for the nice video. Easy to follow and learnt something new. Although the juxtapositioning of ww1 footage and the final section of La Valse at 5:30 felt a bit off, especially after you said in the end that Ravel explicitly denied the war symbolism in the piece. I didn't know that btw.

[@taubenangriff]

In the rare case that this might be still relevant, my take on 8:00 are the two possible diminished scales on A, in general, there is whole-half in the right hand, half-whole in the left hand, moving in contrary motion in different speeds. (3 vs 2 which also mirrors the frequent hemiolas). Left hand is straight forward all major chords in the half-whole dim. scale downwards. If you view A as temporary root, the right hand adds the fifth (E) as is often the case when using whole-half dim. scales. This is then repeated with every shift a minor third upwards, only ever adding the fifth of what temporary root we are currently in. Ravel does these kinda moves around diminished scales often so I think it's reasonable to interpret it like this.

[@djrbfmbfm-woa]

david, this is simply fantastic of you to do this. thank you. j.

[@gemmahudack6182]

One of my favorite orchestral pieces!!!! Thank you for doing a video on La Valse and Ravel!

[@coloraturaElise]

Loved your analysis! I'm a musician, and we're working on this piece right now. I'm so glad to get a deeper understanding of what I'm playing, so I can play it even better. This is the first of your videos I've seen, and I've subscribed so you can continue teaching me. I also shared this video with our ensemble so others can get the benefits, too! Thank you!

[@MostlyEarTraining]

"COMPLETELY DESTROYS" you're a master of KZbin titles.

[@nihilumaeternum6555]

«master»; you’re a master of KZbin comments.

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

i call it intellectual prostitution

[@madcyclist58]

@David Bruce I have no idea what you are talking about when you talk about musical technicalities, ..... but it's fascinating.

[@martingiesenow]

On the right hand, he is playing with the diminished chord. If you skip the major chords, you've got the half diminished scale consistently upwards on the three voices. The major chords that we've skipped are at the distance of minor thirds, thus also following the diminished chord. The fact that they are major creates the feeling of a bitonality.

[@LS-LectoriSalutem]

Thanks for the amazing thumbnail! Great video as always.

[@ADarkandStormyNight]

I was reluctant to click on this video at first, as most on the subject of music are just painful. What a wonderful discovery to find a channel from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

[@gregscott989]

Re: 8:28...various pattterns moving up or down in minor thirds with a rhythmic offset...a pattern of 3 8th notes laid onto a duple beat, 2 8th notes per beat whether in 3/4 or 4/4...are a staple device of jazz improvisers. Not to name drop but a long time ago Michael Brecker showed me a nice pattern of playing a pentatonic lick variation and moving it in minor thirds, up or down. Still use it sometimes when I trying to break up the monotony on a one chord jam.

[@tillyjones1942]

Could you possibly do a video on the classical music of world war one? Not the music before or after it but during it and the composers that actually fought on the front line? There's heaps of videos about the poets and artists of world war one but non about the musicians and composers. Loving these videos!

[@randomhandle6]

That would be really cool! I had a class on that very topic, and studied Britten, Holst, Butterworth, Vaughan Williams, and others. It's a really interesting topic.

[@tillyjones1942]

Diego Rojas oh yeah, it’s really interesting. Did you ever come across Frederick Septimus Kelly? He was an Aussie composer that I think needs more recognition

[@randomhandle6]

@@tillyjones1942 I have not, but will look into his work for sure! Thanks for the info :)

[@terryp3034]

This is the best music blog going. Always a pleasure. Always things to learn. Always time will spent. Thank you, Bruce.

[@alexmandelli3994]

Thank you for interesting analysis... According to my opinion, Ravel was an absolute genius, deeply embedded in the 20th century's darkness. One of my favorite composers of all time.

[@joetowers4804]

I love learning about music like this. You are a fantastic teacher.

[@danielbarker9573]

I always thought that the amazing unison passage the 3rd measure after Rehearsal #96, particularly after all that amazingly thick orchestration, brings to mind a dying soul gasping for breath. All of a sudden, it is VERY personal. This is among my top 5 favorite orchestral works of all time, and I feel that you and I look upon its raison d'etre in a very similar light. Thank you!

[@paulflute]

brilliant as ever David.. informative and entertaining.. That old clip from the war that you used twice had an actual person dropping, presumably to death. in it.. which has really affected me having a quiet night in to wait tele.. to see a real death.. what a thing to be reminded of..

[@matthewgarza6816]

Can you do Daphnis et Chloe please? Appreciate this video, and love La Valse. Ravel continues to fascinate me with his masterful orchestration

[@itslikeajungle]

I think la valse has a dream like quality, like the way a dream is distorted and fragmented but contains familar themes and subjects. La valse is like an imagining of a waltz being remembered upon waking and captured in its dreamlike form as opposed to its reality.

[@jobebrian]

Excellent analysis of the piece. I’ve only recently started listening to Ravel, and this is helpful for understanding what’s going on musically. Regarding the question of whether or not Ravel was responding to the war, I don’t find it at all difficult to believe that Ravel took it as a challenge to take a traditional form and invest it with new purpose because the logic of artistic creation is to develop something new. A work to which it might be helpful to compare LA VALSE is Strauss’ Der Rosenkavalier. It was finished before WWI, but it also portrays a world that seems to have played itself out. It works as a portrayal of society before the war, I think, because Strauss had the genius to see that certain traditional mores and norms had been exhausted. Maybe Ravel saw something similar at work.

[@sebastianboeddinghaus3505]

"Ravel, your orchestration is too good, otherwise good job"

[@WCruttenden]

I've loved La Valse since I first heard it (on the telly). This was a very welcome video.

[@uritibon17]

I always picture the start of the piece as a french soldier getting some wobbly reception of a german radio playing Strauss (Which seems to almost be quoted at points in the piece, especially the wiener blood). Listening to the radio he is trasported into the past world where war and suffering of this magnitude were unthinkable, only to be slowly drawn back into the combat, eerily viewing it as a choreographed ballet as his friends are shot dead around him. Eventually the radio (now internalized and probably broken or shut off) ceases to make any sense in the cacophony of bombardments around him and he eventually dies in a blast. Ravel probably didn't intend that as an interpretation. I'm pretty sure they didn't recieve music on radio in WWI on the frontline, even if they had a radio, or stations broadcasting music, for that matter. My "story" is simply a testament to the power of interpretation and the evocativeness of Ravel's music, which at most seems to be a metaphor for the decline of the classical romanticism and rise of modernity.

[@yoverale]

About that chromatic passage, it really sounds like two universe crashing together. Ravel is creating a polyrhythm between the harmonic rhythm on both textures. there's also a pattern emerging when cycle starts again in the down side with the diminished root movement Ao7 (La Fa# Mib Do). Another diminished between top notes - thirds of red chords - Bo7 (Sol# Si Re Mi#). Top notes of minor triads moving in chromatic motion are always starting in a note of Bo7 that moves to a note of Ao7. I understand it as some kind of polytonality, where you have both sonorities living together. As you said everything is supported buy independence in directionality of motion.

[@dajwright93]

Thank you for this video. I have always really loved this piece, but recently I have found it harder to enjoy because of its episodic and fragmented nature, and strangely I have grown to appreciate Bolero more. I really enjoyed your musical analysis, especially pointing out the weird and wonderful harmonies. You used the example of poetry in your contextual analysis, and I'm very familiar with this notion that the First World War changed everything in the arts from my own studies as an English undergraduate. This is obviously quite easy to see in poetry, especially if you look at the war poets. Without wishing to diminish the importance of WW1, I finding it much more fascinating to consider that, rather than provoking a musical revolution, WW1 seems to have arrived right at the end of a period of musical revolution, especially in harmony. When one considers that 'L'apres midi d'un Faune' was published in 1894, and 'Pierrot Lunnaire', 'Bluebeard's Castle', 'The Rite of Spring', and later Mahler were all pre-war, the significance of the war, at least to musical modernism, seems to be overstated. It is also significant that, as you say, Ravel began 'La Valse' long before WW1, and specifically planned the ending. I don't doubt that there is some influence of the war in the piece, not least in its change of name, but I wonder if it runs any deeper than that, unlike 'Tombeau de Couperin' where I think the effect of the war is quite plain, but which is quite pointedly neo-classical in a way.

[@wingflanagan]

EXCELLENT video! I have long loved La Valse and regard it as one of the more beautiful and terrifying works in the repertoire. To me it always conjured images of ghosts; of skeletons in rotting finary, mindlessly whirling through darkened ballrooms in dilapidated manor houses. They are as oblivious in death as they were in life - carefree and decadent as the world around them spirals into madness and death. Is that what Ravel had in mind? Does authorial intention matter? I don't think so. Not in this case. On the technical side, I so appreciate your incisive dissection of the more striking sections, with animated score to boot! I have been considering adding my own contribution to the odd sub-genre of the "spooky waltz" (i.e. Danse Macabre, The Mephisto Waltzes, La Valse, etc.) Not sure I can add anything new, but I would love to try. This video has given me additional motivation. :-) [edited to get rid of an example that I had confused with a different piece...oops...]

[@eddemans]

Absolutely amazing content, I thoroughly enjoyed this and learned a lot.

[@stevenhaff3332]

Mr. Bruce, thank you! Loved your reflections, historical underpinnings and comments about this curious, wonderful piece. Hadn't heard that Proms, guessing, performance before. Much impressed with the orchestra's virtuosity. Ravel was a wizard.

[@goneretired7030]

When I first heard La Valse some 55 years ago, I just assumed that it was an allegory for the rise and fall of the Habsburg Empire, not so much a waltz.

[@heinvandegeyn292]

Bruce, you are an ABSOLUTE fresh wind ---- I love your videos, they way the embrace MUSIC - of all genres, of all places ---- and the fact that you simply share your well educated and thoughtful opinions - without going into a "know-it-all" vibe --- also they way you invite viewers to respond, give their own opinion, perhaps add to the conversation. Thank you !!!

[@heinvandegeyn292]

sorry man: DAVID !!!!!

[@wastrel09]

this is brilliant commentary, thank you mr bruce

[@boomerhippie]

What I have listen to La Valse I and that it was written early in the 20th century, I have associated it with WWI and the ending of the life symbolized by the waltz. I think it could have been used in Fantasia (except that the subject would be too dark for Disney). The early part of the animation would be in a ballroom in Vienna full of waltzing dancers while slowly as music goes on, through the windows marching soldiers would appear out of the mist or darkness. At the end the dancers fade and the war begins.

[@schonbergsjazzadventures2961]

Great video, very interesting! Two minor corrections: its Landler, not Ländler and at 2:40 you talk about the dotted rhythm - which is actually not a dotted rhythm at all. Look at the score of Wiener Blut, its all quarter notes. This is the traditional way of phrasing in Viennese Walz: Eins - ZWEIII - (drei)

[@mattiascheiwiller4539]

it's Ländler, that was correct. Source: Am German

[@schonbergsjazzadventures2961]

@@mattiascheiwiller4539 Well, I am from Austria and in every Bundesland I've been, we say Landler.

[@schonbergsjazzadventures2961]

Interesting. I looked it up and Landler is commonly written (but not spoken) Ländler. You live and learn, I guess.

[@briansanders8748]

At 8:47, it looks like Ravel is focusing his harmony on a diminished 7 cycle. The bottom, with A F# Eb and C spell out a fully diminished 7 chord, and on top, the tri-tone substitutions spell out E G Bb C# which is another fully diminished 7 chord. J.Cole actually does this on his song ATM, with the chords being Cm Ebm and F#m. Not a seventh, but the roots spell out a diminished triad. I think that’s what Ravel is doing possibly? Also, a half/whole diminished scale has 2 diminished 7 chords in it. And the diminished scale that starts with both of these outlined diminished 7 chords, let’s say Edim7 and Adim7, has the other diminished 7 chord in it. E diminished scale has both Edim7 and Adim7, and vice-versa.

[@nikolajbentzon7554]

Great analysis, David 🙂 I'll be looking out for you 🙂 His symmetric division of the octave is common with him - as it is with several composers of his time. Your perception of the contrary motion in the parts with the incomprehensible harmonic consequences is spot on, I think. There's no "vertical" logic 🙂

[@zappawaitsfornewmiles3528]

Really big thanks for it! Ravel is my favourite composer, until when I was 9. I think La Valse is a very sad piece. Not the mood, or the harmonies, but the meaning. I think La Valse is the story of the death of a musical age, mood, athmosphere. After the 1. big war Ravel saw the end of the "Gold Age", and the final 5 tone was an execution. A heartless ending.

[@jjgdenisrobert]

Thanks for this. I had forgotten how brilliant “La Valse” really is.

[@hardtfelt]

This is interesting because I've always loved the middle of La Valse but always felt that it 'failed' toward the end - if Ravel is 'deconstructing' the waltz form, then it makes complete sense and now I will hear it in a different way and maybe learn to love the whole thing!

[@Szpzer]

Fantastic analysis of a marvelous piece of music! Thanks a lot, David! You asked how to interpret the chords in this masterpiece in terms of tonality. I think you shouldn't bother. In my opinion Ravel explores the boundaries of tonality, sometimes crosses the borders and explores the territories of atonality. Remember that Bergs Wozzeck was composed in 1922, La Valse in 1920.

[@Zonno5]

The stubble looks great on you, David.

[@tkmmusician]

I love your video, and I've just subscribed. I would add to your ideas of how Ravel "destroys" the Waltz by focusing on the passing through tonality, then polytonality, then (teleologically?) arriving at atonality (or something like it) at the end. This runs in parallel to the rhythmic deconstruction you point out so well. To me this piece is like an 18th century painting placed on a merry-go-round that becomes a high-speed centrifuge, spinning and altering and then turning the painting into something by Jackson Pollack. I was always a bit bored by pure theory while at Juilliard, though my ears liked it. You've awakened my inner theory nerd, and thank you. More please!

[@franny231123DMT]

every episode i realise that I dont know anything about music

[@FilipSandecomposer]

This is a very good and educational presentation of the work La Valse by Ravel....!!! My compliments!

[@barlowcj]

In that puzzling chromatic section, if you take the 3rd note of each upper chord and the 4th in the lower, combine them to form a hex digit and convert to ASCII with a UTF-8 character set it spells "jfMz8", so that isn't it. Love your videos!

[@luigivercotti6410]

Now we scan youtube for all the videos containing that in the URL

[@11vlyleven]

Another terrific video! I appreciate the research you do and am not ashamed to admit that you know this subject way better than I do! As some others have stated, I prefer the piano version. I've come to know this piece a little better by hearing Khatia Buniatishvili play it. In fact, five minutes into your video I started thinking to myself, "THAT'S why she plays it that way!"

[@Yelooh]

It's an incredible piece to see live, I'd never heard it before until I saw it performed. Definitely one of the most wild rides I'd been on experiencing a piece for the first time.