DCT Swapping our V10 M6 on Stock ECUs - Episode 01 - Proof of concept

DCT swapping the E60 M5 and M6 has always been a bit of a myth within the BMW community. People have claimed to do it with very little info of how they achieved it.
In recent years more S85 DCT swaps have been carried out using aftermarket ECUs but we wanted to see if it was possible to do whilst retaining both the S85 and DCTs factory ECUs running standard software. This would allow us to retain all of the factory features and our goal of achieving OEM levels of drivability.
With the hardware swap being well trodden ground we start by getting the S85 and the DCT to communicate to each other successfully via CAN bus. We show the proof of concept of our E63 M6 successfully controlling the DCT gearbox in our E92 M3.
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[@RatDog]

YO SO BOOM

[@simons4474]

Was looking for this comment.

[@jacobstaub6676]

Same 😂😂

[@CSLstance]

it's like you're Voldemort they can't mention @RatDog I didn't see it in any of their answers to other coment Like a cursed word

[@paulkelly9073]

Just a question Ratdog and the gang all love and use bmw but never used or mentioned evolve. Is there a reason why evolve have ignored that ratdog has done then with the original ecu????

[@Noldimo22]

Ratdog in da house 🤪, sorry Evolve 😬, Ratdog mates made it first 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@JJay5792]

Definitely possible as @Ratdog have already completed it.

[@T8T-]

Yup, I was disappointed when they said they weren't going to bring their solution to market. I'm very excited to see the folks at Evolve are tackling this!

[@JJay5792]

@@T8T-perhaps evolve can do it but it’s not plug and play at all, fair amount of hardware would need to be engineered let alone the insane complexity of the software.

[@GrandProductionsMedia]

@@JJay5792it’s just giving we want to be one of the only dct v10s out there. It was really weird they didn’t even try to point us in a direction lol, saying “oh we forgot how it was done” like we aren’t dumb

[@FridgetoPantry]

Team Ratdog

[@BimmerJunkie]

Those guys are clowns with childish humor. Still havent shown how they got the dct to work, and they are using aftermarket modules.

[@ratdognuno]

@@BimmerJunkie1 how would u like us to show you coding? 2 lito mss65 in my car right now communicating directly with the getrag mechatronic…

[@yoyocrackatow1234]

YO SO BOOM!

[@mattnycm3]

I've owned an E60 M5 and I would have loved it with a DCT. Looking forward to seeing more of this project especially when the actual DCT is fitted!

What you mean rumours?? I’ve been in that car 😂😂😂😂😂 YO SOOO BOOOOM

[@PedroNunes-un8be]

you’ve been in it cause RATDOG MADE IT FIRST

[@no1carspotter]

Didn’t Ratdog complete this with only OEM parts?

[@tiagomarques8248]

Hasn’t RatDog already done it? 😂

[@David-tj5vb]

RAT DOG DID IT FIRST YO BOOM

[@thomastang9710]

Great job Imran! Looking forward to the next video (and of course the go-to-market solution).

[@mikesingh7380]

Great work Imran and the Team! I actually seen your M6 in my home town being driven by the Mastermind himself!! We had a good Chat. I’ve had a DCT E9X box in my garage now for a couple of years now awaiting for a solution for my E60 M5 😁

[@EvolveAutomotive]

It’s certainly been doing a lot of development miles, and a lot of time spent at the petrol station… 😬

[@mikesingh7380]

Plenty of Shell loyalty points 😂 I gather it’s still got the oem 3.62 Diff ratio? With my DCT box I also obtained a 3.15 gear setup to keep the ratios as they are on the DCT M3’s

[@EvolveAutomotive]

@ yes currently standard M6 rear diff, all things we can experiment with once the DCT swap itself is complete. We actually swapped our E92 M3 to a 3.62 FD and much prefer it to the 3.15. Sharper acceleration but still perfectly usable for European road trips.

[@pedroramos4718]

@ratdog already did it very nicely and very well filmed too🔥 but still a nice project to do, it's a really good combination

[@A2mag]

I saw it in 4k last month , are you under a rock ?

[@DeltaV-Garage]

Dear God yes!!!! We S85 owners need this NOW!!!!

[@AndyOG2000]

That’s some content you won’t get anywhere else. Thank you very much 👏

[@purplejerry1]

except on the ratdog youtube channel where you can watch an m6 drive around a track with a DCT

[@GrandProductionsMedia]

@@purplejerry1did they tell us how it was done? Like even a little? Literally a show off d*ck around video

[@bowlnut17]

E63 M6 owner since 2011. I’ve been waiting on this ever since you teased it in the first video … exciting stuff!

[@MrXerxes]

You guys put out some great content and products for the BMW Community, but this has been one of the most exciting and ambitious projects in a good while --- full steam ahead!

[@joaoamorim5990]

Not a rumour anymore when @ratdog has the proof of concept 😂

[@monkeybraindrives]

That rumour was fully functional in Portimão one month ago, still got smoked by the GT3’s, but that’s something modified BMW owners are used. So there’s no need proof of concept, the car already exists 🤣🤣🤣 BOOOOM

[@risingsunexports]

Good job boys !!!

[@sofetchpro]

@RATDOG DID IT FIRSTTT!!!

[@EuroAutoEnthusiast]

Nice! A project M6 to DCT swap sounds like what’s next for me 👌🏽

[@_Thale_]

Video was definitely needed here 😂 🙌🏿 Thank u EvolveAutomotive

[@salmaniftikhar6583]

Imran it would be a hell of a mod bro, waiting for it. As now I am sure it will be a reliable mod

[@AM4N18]

Team RatDog wayy out in front for the win!! 💪 YO BOOM!

[@cameronmmj9291]

Remember, no Ratdog 😂

[@erdelipeter]

Will be buying a conversion unit as soon as available

[@ratdognuno]

I Gota ask, What are you guys trying to show us here? Are you saying you’re controlling the m3 from the m6? If so how much of it are you controlling? I’m struggling with the 1st to 2nd gear change a rev up to 2k rpm on the m6 clocks but no noticeable change in wheel rotation speed on the m3. Do you actually have throttle control from the m6 to the m3? The Gws can just be connected and wired in with zero calibration changes or additional intercepting modules with a stock mss65 just changed to manual transmission and the cars will drive upshifts and downshift. The driveability is just complete turd. I’m very invested in this as it’s a whole diff route to how we’ve done it and as there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat I’m keen to learn.

[@abood_alzbidyE92]

You are awesome imran ❤

[@Nathan93Baker]

I wouldn't be surprised if everyone with a SMG is lining up at your door for this DCT conversion. If possible.

[@EvolveAutomotive]

The dream is a DCT conversion for everyone who wants one, but a lot more hard work has to happen before we’re near that!

[@DeltaV-Garage]

As an E60 M5 owner with the SMG, 100 fucking percent!!!

[@GrandProductionsMedia]

Wow this is crazy, funny that SOME KZbinRS don't want to give away much of any info on this, hope you all do your best to share as much as you can. I just refurbished my whole smg system myself so maybe this can be next once ive gotten life out of this one.

[@JJay5792]

Why should they give away how they've done? They don't sell products, they are just a bunch of guys who have a passion for what they do.

[@1NELove]

Finally someone’s doing it…

[@DoubbleAgent]

Ok..... This is going to be good!

[@pedrocunha3965]

What about the buiiiiiillllddd for the peoooople? 💸

[@PhilStone-en2lu]

Very interesting!

[@rubbermoetroken]

Brilliant and savage at the same time to see those two cars hotwired to eachother. There is a DCT specialist in NL as well, hooking up DCT boxes to about everything. Maybe you know them, GNG motorsports

[@the_johnte]

Oh my! I have an M5 E60 with SMG which I really would like to change to DCT gearbox. How far away are you from a finished product which you will sell? What parts do you need for the swap beside the DCT gearbox? What would you think be the cost to do this swap?

[@EvolveAutomotive]

At this point we do have a running and driving DCT swapped M6 (video coming very soon!) but we wouldn’t want to comment on how close it is to being anywhere near something we would be happy putting our name on and selling to customers - Or the price involved.

[@southernbm]

Game changer

[@tinorosmg9374]

We need more

[@korijecars]

RATDOG DID IT FRIST!!

[@321-shift]

I'd actually be interested in a DCt swap, my 206k mile M5 would love it!

[@tamashko88]

Give us more ❤

[@EvolveAutomotive]

More coming soon, this was filmed quite a while ago now 👀

[@diogoleal9453]

Ratdog did it first 🤺

[@anthonyricci1205]

Cool experiment to see, and good to see you working on the conversion. That said, and this is nothing against you guys, the DCT isn't that great. It's jerky and at times not as responsive as you want it to be. It's better than the SMG mostly but having had both I struggle to see why I'd want to dump tons of money on a DCT. The 6MT suits these cars, don't believe what the haters say.

[@EvolveAutomotive]

We personally love the DCT, and have always preferred it to the manual on the S65 engine also.

[@mikeaufrechtmelchergrossaspach]

RATDOG DID IT FIRST‼️

[@mikekrstevski]

Subliminal Christopher Ward ambassador, over here.

[@darrenboston342]

Should have been this way from the factory to be honest….. Imagine having a DCT box mates up to the S54 46 M3🤔👌🔥….. Now that I’d love to have in both my 46 M3’s.👍

[@EvolveAutomotive]

SMG III first, but who knows what else this could open the door to

[@ratdognuno]

Hiiiii Internet rumour here…. Congrats on doing it, Using Dans can controller to me isn’t a full OEM swap tho. It is essentially still another module intercepting and changing signals. Cool video tho.

[@EvolveAutomotive]

@@ratdognuno Hiiii. No congratulations until it's possible as a plug and play solution and drives like OEM. Doing it with the Dan controller is the only way we can offer it to customers without infringement of BMW IP ie doing it the way they did it on the M5 CSL. The software is easy enough to obtain if you know the right people. But commercialising it is another story.

[@ratdognuno]

@ don’t we know it. Lol even then, there is issues with the software. We are sure bmw left bugs in it on purpose. If you guys manage to offer the plug and play solution it will be really cool, these cars need to be enjoyed more.

[@EvolveAutomotive]

@@ratdognuno Thanks 🙏🏽 A lot more development and testing required yet. The car becomes a different proposition with the DCT.

[@DefaultLoginDetaiIs]

​@EvolveAutomotive Using that rationale, any DME tune has copyright issues since all tunes take the BMW software and adjust a handful of tables.

[@mariusmeinhold2946]

Awesome! Will you guys develop a set of dampers with lowering springs or coilovers for the E63 M6?

[@EvolveAutomotive]

Something we are looking in to but obviously the DCT is the main priority right now.

[@JimCarreyyyy]

Ratdog did it first 🤙

[@kvnhff]

Mad scientist!

[@stephencayford3164]

Leave the pioneering to @ratdog

[@MrAdeelGT]

Will you be doing something similar for e46 m3 smg 2 owners? Would love to fit a dct on my 46

[@EvolveAutomotive]

Something we can explore in the future, truly depends how similar the SMG 2’s software is to SMG 3, could be similar or totally different which would mean starting somewhat from scratch.

[@christopherfarley4504]

Ratdog has already done this. Boom 😂

[@PaulinesSonOnCars]

🏆🏆🏆

[@BimmerJunkie]

How good does it downshift?

[@EvolveAutomotive]

First drive in the next video, good downshifts are going to be the big challenge.

[@ajlopez8]

Love this. Been watching your videos for a while. I have a question, here in the USA we have E60 545i and E63 with the N62 with SMG transmission. Will you have a kit that would allow me to fit a DCT into a SMG V8 BMW? love all the content. Thank you and hello 👋🏾 from Las Vegas Nevada

[@bradcollins4114]

Is this a E9x DCT or F1x DCT? The gear ratios are quite different - I'm guessing E9x as the bellhousing is the same between S65 and S85

[@boost.m240]

E9x

[@EvolveAutomotive]

E9x M3

[@MankindStyle]

RAT DOG DID IT FIRST

[@miber666]

Is it possible to fit ZF-8hp with s85 in this car??

[@bradcollins4114]

Torque Converters can't handle RPMs that high. I suspect if you don't want to rev above about 7200rpm you'll be fine, but then you are losing a lot of power!

[@BoHorror]

What happened to the new G80 M3 bumper prototype?

[@EvolveAutomotive]

It was a fun exercise but it’s not a commercially viable product for us to bring to market

[@tomascastro4621]

I think i have seen a yt channel know as @Ratdog that has already done this

[@T8T-]

Does the gearbox have to be from an E9X M3, or are there other vehicles it could come from (335is, 135is, etc.)? I wonder if the supply of DCTs could become an issue if this really catches on. An S85 with a DCT and a shorter final drive will be an incredible driving experience!

[@andrejnaumovski8622]

Always been wanting one of these but the SMG gearbox has thrown me off, and I don't feel these are manual cars. DCT should fit them the best. If you're doing it on stock ECU now that means it should be more available with detailed instructions in about 2 years when I have the budget.

[@EvolveAutomotive]

We’d love to get this to the point where it’s a commercially viable project for others to enjoy also! But it needs to meet our high standards of being as close to OEM in functionality and drivability as possible.

[@andrejnaumovski8622]

@ I have nothing but time and fully trust the quality of your work, keep going 🙌

[@imraanrauf8002]

I always wondered what the e60 M5, E46 M3 or even a E39 M5 would be like either modern transmission like DCT or the latest iteration of the ZF gearbox. The cars would be quicker and have a top speed. Can be we have a E46 M3 transmission conversion?

[@EvolveAutomotive]

We are focusing on the S85 platform first, but there’s definitely been discussions about other models if this project is successful

[@imraanrauf8002]

@EvolveAutomotive I don't think anyone in the world has done a E46 M3 transmission conversation so it will be a first and the road test and performance test will be a treat

[@DeeksG]

Hasn’t EverythingM done it with a e60?

[@EvolveAutomotive]

@@DeeksG Standalone ECU (Syvecs)

[@DeeksG]

ahh fair enough, I stand corrected

[@madmarv4n]

Rumours? Joke ting

[@joa0serra]

Bet you follow ratdog for a while 😏

[@grad0n]

Did Ratdog inspire you?

[@EvolveAutomotive]

@@grad0n BMW inspired us with the BMW M5 CSL. Gintani inspired us when they did this many years ago. As BMW guys this has been on our mind for many years. To make it happen so as many people who want the solution can buy it is the aim. Props to anyone that has attempted it/done it. We personally know of two other people that have it working but they will not share it publicly for various reasons.

[@saschak6405]

Such a shame that Evolve decided to talk about another youtubers accomplishments but didn't bother to give them a shoutout - @ratdog Also building a CAN box like that when other boxes already exist to do exactly what you are doing (CANTCU, etc) seems like reinventing the wheel for no reason at all.

[@EvolveAutomotive]

I’m not sure what part of the video you mean, the only thing we referenced was videos from about 10 years ago which if I remember correctly were by Gintani. Did look to include a bit of them in this video but couldn’t find them. So far we haven’t seen a commercially available product that could do what we want it to, hence spending the time/money to do this because we want the community to have easier access to DCT swapping S85s - if we can get it performing like we hope, and that’s a big if, still a lot of work to go.

[@saschak6405]

@@EvolveAutomotive Well I broke my first rule of "assuming" in that case - as you said 7 years ago which is roughly the time frame Ratdog initially did this swap apparently. That said, you should seriously consult with Kenneth @ CANTCU on this project, as he is an absolute wizzard when it comes to what you're doing and as you know DCT fucntionality relies heavily on everything that it expects to see (blips, cuts, etc) are there/present at the correct time and for the right amount/duration so you will need to deal with the ECU side as much if not more.

[@daveblackMTB]

Ratdog win

[@cchris55555]

Needs an ls swap

[@EvolveAutomotive]

If we wanted to lose 2 cylinders it would be an S65, and far easier to then have DCT 😂

[@Shari_Tejp]

Big up to Evolve im looking forward to the detailed demo and explanation. For all the people complaining. NO ONE HAS EVER DONE IT SUCCESSFULLY (yet). Yes, not even that ratdog guy. Many people have tried it, and had some success, mainly with upshifts which are not that difficult to get right. But no one has EVER done a successful OEM swap, with OEM feel downshifts and revv matching like the e92 m3. I am ready to be proven wrong in the comments by the keyboard warriors. But i accept only legit proof. :) and i would love to be proven wrong it would be a big win for a car community bcs a lot of s85 owners want to do this.

[@no1carspotter]

Ratdog literally done it, drove it from the UK to Portugal and done a Trackday in it

[@no1carspotter]

BUT, what Evolve are attempting to do isn’t the same as Ratdog… Evolve are trying to find a way to sell this as a program

[@monkeybraindrives]

The downshifts and rev match on the e92 are not that great, sorry to disappoint

[@Shari_Tejp]

@@no1carspotter ​​⁠proof? A 5 second video of him upshifting? Lol there are a ton of those videos already on youtube since the last 5 years. The closest one in my opinion who has done a great job is jdoggs garage, you can search him. But he was using a full maxxecu, not oem dme and tcu.

[@monkeybraindrives]

@@Shari_TejpI saw the M6 on track for 8 hours, not 5 seconds G, get your shit together

[@Imtiagoalves]

RATDOG DID IT FIRST!!!!

[@Perceni]

@RATDOG did it already. You're late to the game.

[@boost.m240]

Did Ratdog make a custom solution so that other people could do it with their cars at home? That is what evolve is trying to do which has not been done before. They want to create a conversion package so other people can do this and not just watch them do it as a one off shop car.

[@JJay5792]

@@boost.m240I don’t think there is anyway someone can do this with their car at home. Most people couldn’t do the hardware swaps let alone having anything to do with the software aspect.

[@boost.m240]

@@JJay5792 Evolve has already confirmed they will have most of that sorted and people should also be able to have the work done directly at their workshop. There is reason why they are showing “proof of concept.” They are working on making this available to the general public.

[@ratdognuno]

@@boost.m240no bro. And as I thought, this video here shows zero driveability in the real world and it shows just yet another “CAN” module added into the mix to convey and intercept signals. I know evolve wouldn’t post something without credentials so I’m sure it works. Hopefully it will be a nice easy bolt on solution that people can buy and enjoy.

[@lukekindred1999]

Team Ratdog