DDR

(2*) Everything you need to know about the new combat damage rules introduced in Magic Foundations!
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[@ThisNameIsBanned]

So clearly WotC only changed this so they can bring Banding back and say "See, its simple".

[@dwpetrak]

With all the miserable changes WotC has made recently, I would welcome Banding with open arms!!!

[@jerodast]

Banding has always been simpler than the memes made it out to be, and the 6th edition rules changes (which removed the damage prevention step and put damage on the stack) combined with M10 rules changes (which took damage off the stack but introduced damage assignment order) made a lot of older mechanics weirder than they needed to be :P

[@orucs-oraihc3424]

Super glad that the banding example was brought up! The first thing I did when I noticed how banding interacted with the rules changes was to build a Naya “bands with other legendary creatures” commander deck, and this video will make it a lot easier to explain to them how each combat is going to go!

[@zekebrawner5463]

Who is your commander? You got a decklist? I just made a Watya, trainer prodigy with banding.

[@megapussi]

I think most explanations ive heard up until now were a bit editorialized, this focused on the mechanics which helped make it make more sense to me, thanks.

[@ben_clifford]

I've been playing Magic since 1995. I actually really like this rules change. It puts strategic decisions into the parts of the game where they are most fun. And attacking gets some help, which it could use.

[@hermodnitter3902]

This is exactly how my playgroup played back in 1995! Much better, going back to the roots...

[@seanhardner5842]

Same. (1996) Like taking damage off the stack & getting rid of mana burn it makes the game better overall I think. Sure it removes a few combat tricks just like not being able to stack damage changed how some cards interacted & no mana burn meant you can no longer burn yourself if you need to lower your own life for some trick involving that but newer players don’t even know those were ever a thing anyway. I remember when they added damage assignment & not liking it. My friend said it doesn’t do anything and I shook my head. What if I pump the first creature in the order or prevent the damage on it? I don’t think he got what I was saying until we started playing with new rule. This combat change is good and anything that makes Banding easier to explain is great because I use Helm of Chatzuk on defense in my Kudo deck to eat Tramplers lunch.

[@jerodast]

I'm glad you brought up Carom, because the severe nerf to damage prevention and regeneration basically explains why this wasn't always the rule. Basically you either burn your effect to get the attacker to hit the other guy, burn two effects instead of one, or just never don't use those effects if you had to block 2-on-1. Back in the day, kids, there was a damage prevention step... Once upon a time I was planning a series to trace the arc of these things but my enthusiasm for projects like that went out the window when WotC took down half their archives, including old posts about rules changes, for reasons.

[@ben_clifford]

Seriously, when Wizards broke all of their old archived content, it was a travesty for content creators. And, as a man who manages a software team, I can tell you without reservation that it was completely unnecessary.

[@miserepoignee9594]

Those reasons would include so people can't link to the post where they officially endorsed proxies-legal tournaments as a way for players to get into Legacy. Or the one where they wanted to reprint Clone, except it was on the reserve list, so they held a community vote, and 90% of people said to take it off, so they took it (and all the other uncommons that had been on the RL) off.

[@LibertyMonk]

normal combat now matching banding was instantly the first thing I noticed, and my favorite thing about the change. It's nice that new players don't have any reason to learn this "one weird trick" too, I guess.

[@jerodast]

I've only watched 30 seconds after 8:32 so far but this branch of the discussion makes this my favorite one of your videos by a long shot. As if 100 of your regular videos had all banded together!

[@brofst]

Damage assignment order died so banding could live, but unironically, was not on my bingo card for 2024

[@DrSlaughterRex1]

Finally, my favorite creator for rules explanation talks about one of the most important rules changes in recent time. This helped my playgroup understand it where I couldn’t explain because I’m just not good at getting info out of my brain sometimes lol

[@Ariamaki]

A case that I feel is relevant that wasn't covered here is certain damage doubling effects: Previously you had to assign lethal damage based on current numbers, which would not account for doubling and required you to massively over-assign. Now you can just line up the numbers correctly to account for it, making doublers much stronger.

[@seandun7083]

Yeah, though it still can be a bit finicky. A 2/2 menace under the effects of Gratuitous Violence can kill two 2/2 blockers, but can't kill a 1/1 and a 3/3 despite them having the same total toughness. If it has trample, it also can't trample over a single 2/2 blocker.

[@miserepoignee9594]

This is discussed at 5:16

[@GeoQuag]

Re: Carom - From a discussion I had in a discord server involving rules, I believe the carom interaction would work similarly pre-change provided its played on the second creature in blocking order. You can choose to assign more than lethal damage to the first creature to avoid damaging the second.

[@jerodast]

True, but of course tactically that's why they would've played Carom on the first creature if they really wanted to take out your 1/1. That's just not an option anymore if the biggest priority is whether the 1/1 dies.

[@klolwut]

6:00 One nitpick, the defending player or THEIR planeswalker is a more/most accurate statement. One thing even mtg veterans often get wrong is they are the defending player (and all appropriate triggers affect them) even if their planeswalkers/battles are being attacked

[@granular_quality8011]

Thanks for this!

[@vctrsigma]

So bascially back to 6th edition combat, but skipping the "damage on stack" response window. Seems good enough and definitely better than the blocker conga-line. Not only simplified banding interactions, but also blocking multiple attackers like with Two-Headed Dragon / Two-Headed Giant of Foriys / Wall of Glare.

[@diegoblin9090]

Love the last question ❤

[@SpySappingMyKeyboard]

oh dang, I did not know that about furnace of rath!

[@gatherer818]

The only part of the change I'm upset about is that it was announced like less than a day after I ordered cards for a major upgrade to my Ghryson Starn, Kelermorph deck. I'd have put a lot more menace and first strike effects in there if I'd know the change was coming. (If you don't know it, that commander deals 2 bonus damage when any of your other sources deal exactly 1 damage to something, and the deck works by giving him lifelink and deathtouch and then doing 1 damage a lot with cards like End the Festivities. Being free to assign a creature's combat damage as "1 to that, 1 to that, 1 to that, the rest to that" will allow Starn to deathtouch the whole blocking gang.)

[@kurtreznor]

One minute into the video and i start thinking about banding; trying to remember how banding and trample interact, getting distracted thinking about building a commander deck using vigilance, deathtouch, and banding...then you mention the most important thing in Magic affected by these rules... Me: is it banding? Video: Banding. Me: YES! *fist pump*

[@thebowedacious]

Thank you!

[@amtracktrack4963]

Combat damage should use the stack!

[@alaraplatt8104]

a mogg fanatic fanatic

[@jerodast]

@@alaraplatt8104 fantastic

[@machinronii]

In my old days a Mogg Fanatic could kill a 2/2...

[@tubenewsintern6446]

Not gonna lie I've been playing magic for 6 years, I thought this was already how it worked lmfao

[@HyperHowie56]

The last chance to activate a regeneration ability to save a creature is before damage has been assigned, correct? Basically the same as last chance to cast that Giant Growth. Do I have this right?

[@seandun7083]

Correct. Your opponent can just choose after that to assign all the damage to the non regenerated creature if they want now.

[@raedien]

Correct, nothing about priority had changed. Nothing.

[@Murmalow]

@@seandun7083well that’s fucking stupid

[@erikandersson9060]

I do think they could have made everyone happy by having an opportunity to cast instants after damage has been assigned to emulate the power of combat tricks in the old system. The feeling of getting a favorable double block out of nowhere was one of my favorite things about magic, of saying "Surprise, he was secretly wearing a Mithril coat under his clothes", and I'm sad that's gone, or at least far less dynamic.

[@seandun7083]

That's just damage on the stack, which they removed back in M10.

[@alicetheaxolotl]

That's just damage on the stack. They removed that for a reason.

[@erikandersson9060]

@@alicetheaxolotl Honestly would rather have damage on the stack than not having any way of interacting after blockers are declared. Let the mogg fanatics do their thing

[@alicetheaxolotl]

@@erikandersson9060 If you had actually watched the video or read official announcement from Wizards, you would know that you CAN interact after blockers are declared. That is entirely unchanged. The only thing that changed is the removal of the step in-between declaring blockers and gaining priority.

[@Magdavian]

so,... just to make sure,.. 2/2 banding trample + 1/1 deathtouch would deal 2 damage to defending player if blocked by a 10/10 ?

[@platurt9595]

as I understand it, yes. same as with a 3/3 deathtouch trample. what shocks me is that the 10/10 only takes out one creature

[@hermodnitter3902]

And also, your Benalish Hero can block a Blightsteel Colossus alone and just over assign the damage to itself... Banding rules ;)

[@dwpetrak]

So you're telling me (7:28), that if the attacker has a damage doubler/tripler/+X replacement effect and wants to trample they still need to ASSIGN lethal damage before the damage change effect and then can assign trample damage... Doublers took a small hit here, but the rest of the combat damage assignment/dealing is far more intuitive now. I thought I had already considered all the ramifications on this rules change but I somehow forgot to consider that one! Edit: As pointed out below, I misspoke (mistyped?). I meant to say that in the case of trample damage increasers took a hit in a relative sense. In all other cases they seem to work in a better, more intuitive way.

[@Ecrowtist]

Doublers and triplets didn't take a hit, they worked that way before too (in regards to trample).

[@thepieguyinthesky2363]

They've always worked like that, the damage doesn't get doubled until it happens

[@DarthTUK]

If anything dmg mutipliers got better. Not in regards to trample - there it still sucks, but distributing dmg to blockers is way more efficient

[@dwpetrak]

@@DarthTUK yep

[@jerodast]

Trouble with tripled tramplers?

[@ty_sylicus]

I like that this change tilts the scale in favour of attackers. This should push players to be less turtle-like with thier strategies.

[@iTzDritte]

Torbran, Thane of Red Fell has entered the chat

[@20x20]

Hey Dave, how do Master Warcraft and Camouflage interact?

[@Jedicake]

Wait question. So with no priority after damage, does this mean niche little tricks with Umezaw's Jitte and First Strike is now gone?

[@masterthnag105]

I want banding back. Its not really hard.

[@Vex-MTG]

Explaining this rule change to people made me realise how poorly the previous rules (especially with deathtouch) were understood by many people

[@alicetheaxolotl]

Yep. People are also equally confused about trample. "Oh, so now when my Dreadmaw gets blocked by a 1/1 and a 5/5, I'll just assign 6 damage to the 1/1" Alright buddy, if that's what you really want to do, I won't stop you

[@Vex-MTG]

@alicetheaxolotl I mostly saw confusion around Trample when relating to protection, indestructible, or damage prevention effects.

[@Prabhakshavel]

Since modification to damage dealt happens after damage is assigned, if you attacked with a 5/5 trample creature while having one of the damage doubler/tripler effects out and the opponent blocks with a 5/5 would no damage trample over?

[@Temzilla2]

Yep, there is no damage assigned to the player, so no damage gets doubled or tripled by the appropriate replacement effects, and it's completely legal to assign more than lethal damage. You would benefit from any cards that cared about "excess" damage being dealt, such as Aegar, the Freezing Flame or Rith, Liberated Primeval.

[@mattpeers2642]

Something I understand from this new change is that there is now no opportunity to respond between first strike and normal combat damage steps. So does that mean something like [[Drana, Liberator of Malakir]] now has a completely uncounterable triggered ability? It cannot be stifled to prevent the counters?

[@seandun7083]

You can still respond between them. The only thing that changed is that blockers aren't ordered anymore.

[@mattpeers2642]

@seandun7083 I thought the last possible time to cast instants and flash spells during combat was "immediately after blockers are delcared"

[@seandun7083]

@@mattpeers2642 that's normally the last time to interact before damage. If sitting has first strike or double strike though, only they will deal damage during the first combat damage step. Then, people will get a chance to cast stuff, then there will be a second combat damage step where everything else deals damage. You can also cast spells during the end of combat to do stuff after damage is dealt, but while things are still technically attacking. There's some cool trucks you can do there with Celestial Flare or Reconnaissance.

[@igNights77]

Banding evergreen now?

[@zenengineer5803]

So, if I attack or block with Noble Elephant and a brash taunter can I assign all of the incoming damage to the brash taunter?

[@seandun7083]

Yeah, but you could already do that.

[@alwillcox]

So we're basically back to the original 1993 rules, but without the defending player getting the chance to play combat tricks after damage assignation?

[@hermodnitter3902]

Can you do a "bands with others" video? I find banding rather easy, but I just can't wrap my head around the "bands with others" mechanic...

[@seandun7083]

There's two main differences: 1. Rather than requiring "any number of creatures with banding and up to one without" to attack as a band, you need "at least one creature with bands with and any number of creatures. Old Fogey can attack in a band with 49 other dinosaurs even if none of them have any form of banding. 2. While you get the damage division benefits of banding as long as "a creature with banding" is blocking or blocked by your opponent's creature, for bands with other you need "a creature with bands with and at least one other creature" to block or be blocked by it. While a banding creature lets you block a creature with trample on it's own without any going over, for bands with others you need to be double blocking.

[@hermodnitter3902]

@seandun7083 thanks!

[@יעקבהס-ת6ר]

Hi, an unrelated rules question. Is there any way to cast dryad harbour? For example, can I cast with rishkars expertise? Or, in another words, it considered to be "a spell" when it's in your hand?

[@Temzilla2]

No, because dryad arbor has the land type, it can not be cast as a spell. 305.9. If an object is both a land and another card type, it can be played only as a land. It can’t be cast as a spell.

[@megaclpb]

what if Amy attacks with a 7/7 and Nick decides to block with a 3/3 and a band composed of a 2/2 and a 4/4? does Amy get to choose how damage is split between the 3/3 and the band and then Nick gets to choose how the damage that was assigned to the band is split or does Nick get to choose how damage is split among the 2/2, the 3/3 and the 4/4?

[@seandun7083]

You only declare bands on attack. You get to divide your opponent's damage as long as a creature with banding is blocking or being blocked by the creature in question. So Nick blocks with those 3 creatures without needing to declare a band, the gets to decide where all of the 7/7's damage goes.

[@megaclpb]

@@seandun7083 then what if Nick attacked with a 3/3 and a band of a 2/2 and a 4/4 and Amy blocked both the 3/3 and the band with a 7/7 while she controls something like High Ground?

[@seandun7083]

@@megaclpb so banding consists of two separate parts which synergize, but are ultimately not directly connected. You can declare a band on attacks which then gets blocked as a group. If a creature you control with banding blocks or is blocked by a creature, you get to assign that creature's combat damage. Note that being in a band is entirely unnecessary to get the damage division part and instead you just need to have banding. It's just that being in the band is a way of forcing your opponent to block multiple creatures with a single one to make the damage division part actually relevant while attacking. Because of that, since all of Amy's creatures are blocking a creature with banding, Nick gets to control how their damage is assigned among the creatures they are blocking. Because all of Nick's creatures are being blocked by a creature with banding, he gets to decide how Amy splits her damage. If you attack with two creatures not in a band, one of which has banding, and they are blocked by a Palace Guard, you get to split it's damage. If you attack with two creatures in a band, one of which has banding, then if someone flashed in a Dress Down to remove banding at any time before the damage step, they would stay in a band, but you could no longer divide your opponent's damage. Because bands only control how they get blocked, you also don't actually declare them while blocking since they don't actually do anything there as you can already double block.

[@allopeth]

I wouldn't want to be in charge of updating all the rules questions about combat, ugh!

[@ianleggett8429]

Yo my Banding EDH deck just got a buff.

[@hagazissa1599]

Just for clarification: Amy attacks with a 4/4 and blocks with 4 2/2, can Amy assign 1 damage to each blocker, killing them all in the process? This wouldn't be possible with the old rules AFAIK

[@seandun7083]

She needs a damage doubler, deathtouch, or a post combat End the Festivities to kill them, but yes. Under the old rules you could specifically split damage that way with Deathtouch since 1 damage was considered lethal, but not with the other two so it is an improvement.

[@hagazissa1599]

@@seandun7083 Oh yeah I see that I forgot to add deathtouch to amys 4/4, so thats nice.Thanks!

[@articerile]

​@hagazissa1599 If it has Deathtouch, you could always have killed all 4 with the 4/4, since Deathtouch would have meant any damage was lethal.

[@TheGorillah]

Thanks a lot for clarifying the new rule in detail. More pictures to the examples would be useful ;) Does the new rule effect Berserk, because it says it only can be played before the combat damage step? Or is it not effected, because the rule just puts the damage assignment from the declare blockers step to the combat damage step?

[@poiri]

@@TheGorillah technically damage assignment was always part of the combat damage step, only blocker ordering (and of course blocking) was done in the declare blockers step. So Berserk isn’t really affected by this change

[@TheGorillah]

@@poiri But the window where a player gets the chance to play combat tricks separates the steps in a different phase. Thats why i was wondering, because maybe this window is no longer declared as being right before the combat damage step.

[@poiri]

@ you still get priority at the end of declare blockers if that’s what you mean

[@seandun7083]

​@@TheGorillahthe priority window is in exactly the same space it has been. The only difference is that there is no "order blockers" part of the "declare blockers" step.

[@GreatWhiteElf]

Combat damage happens in parallel, where before it was in series. Would that be a fair explanation of the change?

[@dwpetrak]

Silly commenters, Banding's for kids!

[@Jtsqueaker]

It is unrelated to today's topic and very fringe, but I have a weird question. How does the interaction between Nebuchadnezzar and Telepathy work? With telepathy, opponents play with their hands revealed. The ability on Nebuchadnezzar says choose a card name then an opponent reveals X random cards from their hand and discards all cards revealed this way with the chosen name. Since all cards are already revealed, would those cards still be "revealed this way" for Nebuchadnezzar's ability to function? Thanks for any advice or clarity?

[@poiri]

@@Jtsqueaker “this way” means that Nebuchadnezzar’s ability only cares about cards revealed due to itself. So you would still need to ‘hit’ the named card off of the random reveal

[@Jtsqueaker]

@poiri I understand the "revealed this way" part, but how does the random reveal work since everything is revealed to begin with? Does the opponent pick up the cards to then shuffle them around before randomly revealing them again? That is the part of the interaction I am confused about.

[@poiri]

@@Jtsqueaker I see, since it’s random you’d just have to find some way to randomise it, the easiest way would be as you say to just shuffle them and pick X random cards, or to roll a die. The ability still functions as normal, just because the cards are revealed due to one ability doesn’t mean Nebuchadnezzar’s ability doesn’t also reveal them

[@Etyman]

I must know if Kaldra Compleat has changed with this change. Can an attacking creature with Kaldra Compleat equipped that is getting blocked by 5 9999/9999's no other keywords, exile all 5 blockers before normal combat damage step? My understanding is that before, blockers where ordered and Kaldra had to assign lethal damage to the first before damage the rest. Can Kaldra trample through if it where 4 of the above creatures instead(I'm guessing no)? If Kaldra becomes capable of blocking multiple attackers can it do a similar thing? could it before? by Kaldra I do mean some creature with Kaldra Compleat equipped.

[@GrizonII]

I believe that the equipped creature should now be able to assign 1 damage to each of a number of creatures up to its power, and it will exile all of them, but that it won't be able to trample over them in the case of 4 blockers (unless they all only needed to be dealt 1 damage for it to be lethal anyway, in which case the trigger is irrelevant)-abilities that trigger off of damage aren't taken into account for determining if lethal damage is assigned, and lethal still needs to be assigned to all of them to trample over. I think it couldn't hit all of them under the pre-Foundations rules (I think assuming no other effects it would always be able to exile only one blocker? Since all previous blockers have to be assigned lethal damage so they'll be dead before the trigger resolves). Worth noting perhaps that since Mirrodin block was before the damage assignment order rules change, the original Kaldra used to function the way it will again now (being able to split damage to exile several creatures) but then had lost that ability in the meantime.

[@SpitefulAZ]

bring back banding! come on wizardz 😂

[@KevinK-s3g]

A question about this I've had that I haven't seen addressed anywhere yet: what happens in a scenario where there is both an attacker being blocked by multiple and a blocker blocking multiple? Outside of banding, it's my understanding that the blocker gets to assign the damage done by the multi-blocking creature. So both attacker and blocker need to assign damage, but who has to assign it first? (both players might want to wait and see what the other does before deciding)

[@fatpad00]

CR 510.1- attacker assigns first

[@tub3scr3am3r]

so the new ruling pretty much just matters when mass-blocking?

[@seandun7083]

Yup. Everything else is entirely unchanged.

[@miserepoignee9594]

There's no "pretty much" about it. Unless you have an attacker blocked by multiple creatures (or the much more exotic scenario where a blocker is blocking multiple attackers), everything works EXACTLY like it did before.

[@alicetheaxolotl]

Yes. The announcement explicitly stated that the rule being changed is only used when multiple creatures block 1 creature, or when 1 creature blocks multiple creatures.

[@matrixshaman6652]

What if someone blocks multiple creatures with one creature and there is no banding? Does the defending player determine where the damage split goes? And what if the defending player blocks with multiple creatures in this case? Who assigns damage first?

[@seandun7083]

Previously they had to order attackers in the same way ordering blockers works. Now they don't need to and assign damage how they want in a similar way to attacking. If 4 Palace Guards block 4 attacking Palace Guards, both players get to split their damage how they want among the creatures each of their creatures are attacking or blocking. Attacker assigns damage first, then defender, then it's dealt simultaneously. I don't see is explicitly stated in the rules in which order multiple blocking players would assign their damage, but I'm assuming it's AP/NAP order.

[@BCfightan]

After declaring blockers, does the active player (the attacker) gain priority first or does the non-active (the blocker) gain priority first?

[@seandun7083]

Priority always goes in AP/NAP order, so the active player will get it first.

[@BCfightan]

@ if you have priority when you cast or activate something then you get priority back even if you’re not the active player. Just wasn’t sure if blocking actually gave you priority or if it was just a special game action

[@seandun7083]

@@BCfightan true, good point. When a player has priority and does something, they get it back, but when we go to the next step/phase or when something on the stack resolves, it goes back to the active player.

[@babylonastronaut]

Is there a priority pass between first strike and regular combat damage?

[@seandun7083]

Yes. It's fun with Ninjutsu.

[@MrZeyami]

The change is also a low key buff to bands with others. I'm glad wotc has their priorities straight. Nerfing the very overpowered combat trick style of spells and giving bands with others a much much needed buff.

[@seandun7083]

Banding in all it's forms already allowed you to split damage this way. If anything, it's a small nerf. Now, if my opponent removes all my "bands with other" abilities from my attacking band mid combat using their army of Shelkin Brownies, when they block it with a single creature they no longer need to order attackers.

[@rwed13]

Kendra complete now is op, no? Able to exile up to 5 blockers

[@poiri]

@@rwed13 that requires the opponent to choose to block with 5 creatures, so they just won’t do that

[@fluffyfang4213]

With Kaldra Compleat having indestructible, it seems incredibly unlikely that anyone would want to block with multiple creatures anyway. Not impossible, but unlikely. Still very interesting that Kaldra now almost has super Deathtouch except when it comes to Trample.

[@seandun7083]

Stone Tongue Basilisk is back to how it was designed.

[@Flyboy245]

I know it’s supposed to make things simpler, but as an enfranchised player, I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around. I’ll have to watch this a couple times. So I have to cast my combat trick before blocks are assigned?

[@Dot_Eleven]

no, there is no changes to timing or anything. The only change is basically you don't know where the attackers damage is going to go. It all still follows the same thing of assign attackers, priority, assign defenders, priority, damage happens. The only difference is that before if the attacking player had a creature that was double blocked they would have to after the defenders were assigned choose which creature would take the damage first. Now, that doesn't happen and instead they can assign damage to the blocking creatures however they like and you won't know until damage is actually going through. TL:DR The only thing changing is that the attacker can hide which of your multiple blockers they are going to kill until after you've played your tricks. Edit: To make it a bit clearer, here's where things actually change. Before: You declare blockers, I assign an order of which double blocker I'm going to kill first, priority where you can cast combat tricks, damage happens. Now: You declare blockers, priority where you can cast combat tricks, damage happens where I get to decide at this point where I'm going to put my damage on your creatures.

[@seandun7083]

Ordering blockers isn't a thing anymore, but priority and damage assignment happen in the same places. If you haven't been ordering blockers, don't worry about it.

[@Flyboy245]

@ I have been haha. Especially when I cast a combat trick

[@luca6819]

They made that stupid order to streamline online playing and avoid user intervention to assign damage, glad the reverted it

[@poiri]

@@luca6819 the reason they made the damage order was to make the transition from damage on the stack to damage not on the stack smoother, something that is obviously not as much of a concern nowadays

[@luca6819]

@poiri For sixth edition it was the same thing, make it easier to implement in software but they really messed up the game (in my opinion, of course)

[@poiri]

@@luca6819 that might be the case (I wasn’t playing back then) but the difference between damage order vs. the new (or pre 6th ed.) system comes up in maybe 1% of games if I’m being generous, in the grand scheme of things it really doesn’t matter

[@GrizonII]

⁠@@luca6819I don't think software was really a concern for 6ED; the only digital version at the time was the MicroProse one and 5ED rules worked fine in that. I think the main reason for combat damage being put on the stack (and the summary of rules changes from Wizards' site back when 6ED was coming out seems to fit with this) was that they were removing the damage prevention step and making damage prevention spells/abilities be cast/activated in response instead just as any other spell would (quite reasonable to do IMO since the pre-6ED damage prevention rules are a bit of a headache), and in turn they wanted to preserve the behavior of damage prevention effects in combat while also making responses in combat behave more like how one would respond to any action in other phases (pre-6ED, damage would be assigned and basically is in the process of being dealt then you could play specifically damage prevention effects (but I believe you couldn't e.g. play a giant growth after damage is assigned to save a creature since that's not counted as damage prevention), 6ED damage is assigned then put on the stack and priority is given to respond with any kind of effects before damage is dealt).

[@spencerschmidt-rundell1612]

Ah, so a mechanic that was considered to be overly complicated is now just the standard of combat damage. That's... interesting.

[@poiri]

Banding was not overly complicated because of the specifics of damage assignment. It was because it had tons of corner cases and rules minutiae, as well as being two mechanics in one, since it worked differently on attacking and blocking.

[@alicetheaxolotl]

Banding was never as complicated as the memes made it out to be.

[@kylegonewild]

It was just wordy. If you block with a band, or are blocked with a band, the player with banding chooses how damage is dealt by the opponent's creatures. The only really confusing scenarios were due to weird cards like Raging River where you could end up with banded blockers on different sides of the "river" or attacking with banding into an opponent's blockers that have banding which, under the now former rule caused both players to ignore the damage ordering part of blocking and choose how the other player's damage is divided among creatures. 99% of the time the way I described it above in one sentence was how it worked, now it works that way in all instances.

[@nicks4802]

So….. not only will we have to say “bracket 2” to play a casual game, you’ll also have to rule 0 in “we’re playing OLDSCHOOL combat rules” Thats all I understood here.

[@seandun7083]

Your going to need to be a bit more specific. This isn't the first time combat has been changed. Or the second. Or the third.

[@alicetheaxolotl]

So, I'm assuming you want the old school, pre-6th Edition rules?

[@cheeseitup1971]

It's mostly the same. Some tricky things are now possible, but others no longer are. "Just pick any numbers" reduces the amount of times we have to tell someone their damage doubler doesn't count for "lethal damage".

[@nicks4802]

@ pick a number? Why? Its combat, not a random number generator…. This shit sounds super unnecessary. If they actually justify this garbage by bringing back banding, I’m just gonna sell my cards. I can’t mentally understand how it works and it turns the game into something I can’t enjoy. They have until the next set to fix this. Or im just quitting to play Pokémon.

[@seandun7083]

@@nicks4802 same reason you need to decide how to split damage with Rolling Thunder. It's not that hard.

[@henkdachief]

i would say the use of beginning and end of combat are more tactical and less strategic

[@platurt9595]

normal ppl use them interchangeably

[@henkdachief]

@@platurt9595 we arent normal people we are magic players

[@poiri]

@@henkdachief normal magic players use them interchangeably

[@kainobeaner]

basicly the new changes make combat tricks useless and double blocking useless. its overall better for attackers and always a bad time for blockers. blockers should always have the upper hand.

[@seandun7083]

Neither are useless. Double blocking without combat tricks is mostly unchanged. Combat tricks without double blocking are entirely unchanged. Together they don't always lead to a different outcome under the new rules.

[@kainobeaner]

@@seandun7083 with assigning dmg no longer locked into who you pick there is no use to double blocking and throwing a trick in there to try and get the advantage. now its just attack wins all the time and blocker losses all the time.

[@seandun7083]

@@kainobeaner if you block a 3/7 with two 3/3s and use a Giant Growth, there still is a use to it. You don't get to save both your creatures but you do kill their creature and save the one you want to. If you block a 7/7 with two 2/2s and Giant Growth one, nothing about the outcome has changed from the old rules. Double blocking with a combat trick still has it's uses and doing either without the other hasn't changed at all. Really this only matters for limited.

[@kainobeaner]

@@seandun7083 those examples are terrible cause no one with a brain would do that. the point of double blocking with a trick is to get an advantage. since you have to use your tricks befor dmg is assigned the attacker can just kill the smaller creature and you still lose in the double block situation. its no longer worth doing.

[@seandun7083]

@@kainobeaner except you very much would in many situations. If you don't have much else going on, trading your board for theirs can be better than taking half your life total in damage or starting to lose your board to chump blocking. Card advantage is nice, but it's not everything. The situations where you both need to double block and also need to use a combat trick are pretty rare anyways.

[@lauraelden1210]

First!

[@zym6687]

Between this and the Beyond stuff Im just done with WOTC.