Deadhouse gates - Spoiler review

[@theriddler2277]

another has walked the chain of dogs, you are now one of us.

[@StarUnreal]

Your intuitions on a lot of things you talk about here are extremely spot on. Regarding the difficulty of the series, I think quite a few people who do not have experience with 'in media res' get lost in Gardens of the Moon, as they do not realize they're supposed to lack information. So many other fantasy books supply the needed context for every detail as soon as that detail shows up, so they go into Malazan and think they are missing all these details that they're supposed to have. Gardens of the Moon is not a difficult book to read when you have experience with both fantasy and with authors that purposefully withhold information, as is so common in short stories and general fiction. However, this series absolutely has elements that make it more difficult than the vast majority of others. The Book of the New Sun is a great puzzle, and is dense with symbolism and theme-work, but all four books together equal the size of one average Malazan book. Erikson doesn't write as densely as Wolfe most of the time, but he gets to that dense Wolfe level often enough, and primarily in the back half of the series. I'd say there's as much Wolfe-level complexity in this series as there is in BotNS in its entirety. I think Erikson likes to tie in much more emotion to this depth and complexity though, so it hits a lot harder for me. In some ways, BotNS feels like a mental puzzle, whereas Malazan is primarily an emotional puzzle dressed up as a mental puzzle. Then, you have the fun fact that there's over 450 POV characters in Malazan, and the highest amount of page time we get for any one POV across the entire series is ~4%. There's 3.5 million words in this series, and they get denser, more thematic, more symbolic, and more poetic the closer you get to the end. Most people don't read books as long as Malazan books, and they certainly don't read ten book series. Lots of people have trouble keeping 2 POVs straight over a single book, nevermind the hundred or so that Erikson asks you to remember as you flow from book to book, where no one character is present in every book, so you're desperately trying to remember where this character who has jumped onto the page is from two books ago, and why they were relevant. If you're bad with names, good luck, because there are a whole lot of characters with similar reading names. Now, this all doesn't mean it's really difficult to follow the main plots, and feel those emotional moments. Erikson is really good at generously doling out the info when he needs to. I don't think he necessarily expects the reader to remember these characters 100%, and he gives you some leeway in the books to refamiliarize yourself. The series isn't truly difficult, but it can be a bit of a bastard to people with memory issues.

[@EnzymeBondedConcrete]

Hell yeah a spoiler video, thanks for bucking the Booktube trend of shying away from them, will definitely keep watching as you go

[@ASageCalledQ]

Fairly sure this was the one that fully locked me in.

[@BuriedUnderBooks]

I can’t tell you how happy I am that you’re enjoying this series so much. I was someone who fell in love instantly with Gardens of the Moon and this became my favorite series of all time. I now separate my life into before/after reading MBotF. I think the reputation of being so difficult is greatly exaggerated and does the series a disservice, but I also trusted Erikson knew what he was doing and just rode that wave the entire time. I laughed when you mentioned not even realizing that you cared for these people all of a sudden, my friend and I had that exact same conversation when reading Deadhouse Gates. Something tragic happens to a character and it hits you and you’re like OMG when did Erikson make me love them?! Anyway, happy to relive my journey through your reviews, going to start a re-read next month.

[@dlasis]

You cared for them because you innately have empathy and compassion all along.

[@jaxpk2669]

Fuck YES! Malazan Speedrun! I think you should definitely get Philip Chase and AP Canavan on here for a chat about it, they are the OG pros when it comes to MBoF! new subscriber!

[@rammelbroadcasting]

I don't know if I could keep up with Philip Chase. I had to be corrected on magic system terminology, lol. That man has a PhD

[@jaxpk2669]

@@rammelbroadcasting he is more humble than you think haha, trust me on this bub

[@alanrussette2819]

@@rammelbroadcasting I've got a PhD, as well (though not in literature). We're overrated ;)

[@EnzymeBondedConcrete]

They're super friendly, that'd be a good conversation

[@dlasis]

I second this!

[@DrMetalpin]

The story and Erickson's writing don't even get truly going until Memories of Ice. Brilliant series.

[@atrophis]

Was really looking forward this this one considering how much you loved Gardens. That one little detail that really gets you at the end is remembering the talk about the Wickan belief in crows collecting the souls of the dead. Then seeing THOUSANDS of crows coming to collect the soul of a certain someone. Tears every damn time. These books get me because they are genuine tradgedies in a way that nothing else in the fantasy genre is. But they are not so dark as to be nihilistic. The overarching theme of these works is compassion. Also, expect to have the same experience you had here many more times over, in that a character you didnt think you cared that much about dies and you suddenly realise you're heartbroken. Erikson will do this to you over and over. That's not to say there wont be dozens of characters you'll love straight away (despite very long wait for some of them to appear in the series)! Enjoy book three, which is most fans favourite of the series.

[@rammelbroadcasting]

@atrophis I'm looking forward to book three. I do hear a lot of good things about that one. But then again, I heard a lot of good things about this one

[@danielgwynne7266]

book 8 is the one at no 1 most often, book 3 just has the highest average opinion of it since everyone atleast likes it pretty much

[@atrophis]

@ Nah, TTH is very divisive so there’s no way it’s most often listed as the best book. Personally MT is my favourite.

[@danielgwynne7266]

@@atrophis in surveys like 25% of people have tth in first while like 15% have MOI

[@parcaleste]

@@rammelbroadcasting There's a certain character in Book 3 that really ripped my heart apart on the re=read. He was not yet done, until he was. Probably the book with two most epic scenes (one involves Hood coming PERSONALLY to collect certain someone's soul - chills down my spine).

[@ZampanosCat]

Hope you enjoy Memories of Ice, bro. You are in for a real treat, if you've enjoyed the first two books so far. Can't wait to keep on watching these reviews

[@dlasis]

I just finished watching the whole review. Wow, you have made great points -- especially the part when you said you didnt care at first but you didnt realize you actually do. Erikson keeps doing that in the remaining 8 books in the series. The thing that really awestruck me with Malazan is that you dont realize you're an active participant to the events of the story. Erikson was testing your level of empathy and compassion by dragging you into the pain and trauma of each character -- making you witness the events. *wink

[@SouravUldyssian]

This is a great review. So glad you loved it by the end. You didn't talk about Mappo and Icarium, they were my favorite characters in this book. Their relationship was so heartbreaking to read. Hope you start Memories of Ice soon, that one is truly epic. Read the prologue of MOI twice if possible, its really dense and has lots of implications throughout the book.

[@rammelbroadcasting]

@SouravUldyssian I am reading 1 Malazan book per month. At least that's the plan. Let's see if I can maintain that schedule, lol

[@salomealhusami594]

Now that I've watched the review, you cannot imagine how happy I am that you loved the book! I was grinning like an idiot all through the video! 😁 Since you loved this book, I cannot wait to hear what you think of the third book! It's even more EPIC! I'm so envious of anyone reading this masterpiece of a series for the first time. So, I get vicarious joy when watching new readers' reactions to it. I wish that I can just wipe out my memory so that I can read it for the first time again! 😭 Happy reading! 😊 Enjoy it while you still can!! It's definitely a once in a lifetime experience!

[@rammelbroadcasting]

@salomealhusami594 It's been great so far. Really looking forward to reading more

[@salomealhusami594]

@@rammelbroadcasting Glad to hear that! I'll be waiting for the third book's review notification on pins and needles!

[@parcaleste]

Buddy, if you haven't re-read the series, it's even better the second time. Go do it NOW.

[@salomealhusami594]

@@parcaleste Oh, but I did!!! I read it twice and I reread it every time I listen to a readthrough podcast and every time I watch reviews, interviews with Steven, and general analysis, I'm obsessed! Currently, I'm rereading Kharkanas! 😍😍

[@parcaleste]

@@salomealhusami594 The first Kharakanas book is friggin awesome. I have next to zero recollection from the second one. He went full on depression there, and not really in a good way, but I bet it will be better on a re-read. If you haven't read "The God Is Not Willing", this one is like a continuation of the Malazan empire story... with Karsa Orlong, lurking. It's super good, Malazan marines bickering and doing Malazan marines things, til you are blue in the face with laughter.

[@GelidPrince]

I don't normally cry at books. I cried 3 times reading this. First, when whats left of the chain of dogs sees the city gates, cause they're so close but so far and you never thought they'd make it. Second, the whole Coltaine bit outside the gates. And third, when Mappo gave the health potion to the two dying dogs.

[@parcaleste]

On my re-read, Duiker's final moments nearly broke me. And these dogs... they stick around.

[@BuriedUnderBooks]

I also don’t cry at books but this one broke me at the end. This and TCG are two of only maybe 3 or 4 books I’ve cried at. Erikson is a legend.

[@Ylyrra]

Great review and love the enthusiasm. This series is one of my three favourite fantasy series for world-building and characters that feel like they're a product of that world. (The others are the Deverry Cycle by Katherine Kerr, and the Eathsea books by Ursula K Leguin.) Erikson has many talents as an author, but I find it truly fascinating that he can have a nameless character with two lines of dialogue still have a distinctive voice that makes you think "he's probably having an interesting day, wonder what his story is?".

[@rammelbroadcasting]

Of the other 2 you mentioned, I've only read one book from one series, and that's A wizard of earthsea

[@atrophis]

@@Ylyrra Wow a Deverry mention on booktube. Seems everyone forgot these books exist, which is sad because they’re petty great!

[@Ylyrra]

@@rammelbroadcasting Well at least the Earthsea books are short and easy to catch up on. There's a big tone shift from book to book to match the subject matter, much like the difference between the first two Malazan books. The sequels are far more contemplative than the first. The Deverry Cycle is probably my favourite fantasy setting... super down-in-the-dirt barely just above subsistence existence Celtic society, where a lord is basically anyone who can get five or so guys with swords to follow him and enforce his rule. If you can get and feed twenty you're a really big deal and the king probably pays attention to what you're up to so that you don't get too powerful. Mix in a wonderfully organic magic system and some creative time-hopping so you can see the consequences of things echo down the hundreds of years of the story and... it's really rich storytelling and you get to see the history of the world unfolding.

[@Ylyrra]

@@atrophis Katherine Kerr is criminally underrated as an author, I feel that Deverry was "Robin Hobb"-ing before Robin Hobb was even a thing. Her sci-fi is pretty good too!

[@chandlerholloway3900]

That’s crazy man. I had the exact same experience reading Deadhouse Gates. It wasn’t until I got to the last part of the book that it all clicked for me. I’m currently on book 4 (House of Chains) and I’m in the minority when I say this, but Deadhouse Gates is still my favorite book of the series thus far. Even though Memories of Ice is more epic and understandably the favorite, I still fondly look back at Deadhouse Gates. To me, it felt very reminiscent of Dune, and that’s one of my favorite books of all time so that might be another reason I hold it in such high regard. But it was such a visceral reading experience for me, I’ll never forget it. Excited for you to continue the series!

[@alanrussette2819]

The thing I've found with these books is that they sneak up on me. I'll actively dislike characters or sections of the book at the outset, but somehow I end up loving them at the end. Parts of this book just crushed me emotionally as I read them.

[@rammelbroadcasting]

Exactly

[@EricMcLuen]

Now you can see what Erickson is capable of. Especially if you like military fantasy. The camping scenes are also fairly realstic. For example, they did have mule jousts at Anzio. And as the saying goes, when you have soldiers together soon a card game will break out. There are a lot of details and foreshadowing on a reread as you know the big stuff and pick up on the smaller things. It is also very satisfying when you pick up on a call back from books ago. Squint really hit me hard the second time. This was also supposed to be book 3. But the disk the draft of Memories of Ice was on crashed and several hundred pages gone. And in conclusion, fk Mallick Rel.

[@parcaleste]

"fk Mallick Rel" I second that. Even with the "Return of the Crimson Gard" existing.

[@alexithyme3511]

You truly get Erickson's genius till you start realizing the threads intertwining the series. For example, the next book has a call forward to the fifth book, which happens on an entirely different continent. Felsin's scars from the bloodworm keep her from being recognized by someone in a later book. Even her bitterness makes sense in what she becomes and the origin of that thing. The series is full of things that make you go WTF?, only to understand their significance later.

[@slidenaway]

Hell yeah awesome review. You’re gonna love the rest of the series, congrats on finding a new favorite 🎉😂

[@rammelbroadcasting]

I don't know about my favorite, but it feels like it'll probably make it in the top 10 for sure. But then again there's 8 books left lol

[@WilliamFenwick-ll8hd]

Man if he enjoyed first 2 this much his mind might actually break from reading 3. Memories of ice is the OG

[@locolima279]

I liked Gardens pretty well. But, this book sold me on the series. I even know which part- THE WICKANS. That part was the first emotional beat for me. Next book is even better as it introduces my favorite Malazan character. Keep reading & I'll keep watching.

[@rammelbroadcasting]

I will

[@raswartz]

Deadhouse Gates is so great. And you've got so much better stuff ahead of you.

[@blacknbluecollarreader]

Excellent review Sir. I'm a Felesin justifier. The poor girl was experiencing opiate withdrawal in the dessert of all places. 🤢lol. I'd be a bitch also. Awesome video Sir.

[@rammelbroadcasting]

@blacknbluecollarreader Yeah she put me in a tough situation. I really started to dislike her but felt bad about it because of where she had come from.

[@LoScrittoreDivergente]

@@rammelbroadcasting@blacknbluecollarreader I love when we talk about characters as the real people they are in the multiverse! 😅

[@kruppecauthon3475]

I loved this one for the shift in tone. The Chain of Dogs broke me. Next you'll get a brief intro to Bauchelain and Corbal Broach😂

[@Chance.Dillon]

I feel like our experiences were very similar😂😂 just a lot of not having any idea what’s happening to becoming one of the better books I’ve ever read. Absolute catharsis

[@salomealhusami594]

YES!!!! 😍

[@LoScrittoreDivergente]

About the subtitle of the series, it is inspired by Napoleon’s “books of the fallen”. So, these novels are the same, but Malazan’s. They’re not, obviously, but I guess that’s a way to tell what they truly are, going down deep on their meaning. I stop here. (No idea if someone else said it; I cannot read all the comments. My apologies if it’s repeated information.)

[@LoScrittoreDivergente]

Okay. Watched the whole video: I’m happy to see your emotions coming out! 😂 Yeah, that fu€!(/!!! arrow! For me GotM is slightly worse, because I found the end an average end. Nothing special, kind of predictable… Between the writing of the first book and that of the second passed eight years. Erikson’s higher experience is noticeable. (But what a first ever book written: Master!) The break at book five is abrupt, but Midnight Tides is the best book in the series in my opinion. You’ll be disappointed for a few pages only. You’re in! 🙌🏽

[@rammelbroadcasting]

Yeah, I think I'm in, too, lol

[@parcaleste]

When I read the series the first time, in my language, the translation here is "Malazan Book of the Dead". And there is a line IN THE VERY LAST BOOK that Fiddler says, where I tied the knot why exactly is the series called that way. It brought an entire new perspective on everything that I read. It was a surreal experience. Like a top secret secret revealed. It actually worked as a benefit to my experience.

[@ahill6858]

Kalam and Quick Ben are top 5 characters in the series! Love them!

[@alexithyme3511]

It's not A magic system, it is dozens of magic systems from different species and dimensions

[@alanrussette2819]

Where do you keep finding these hardcovers?? I've only ever found the paperbacks.

[@rammelbroadcasting]

The first one I found IRL this one when I went to order it on Amazon there was an option to order the hard cover and it was only like 25 bucks so I clicked that option. 🤷‍♂️ Don't worry, I had to get the mass market paperback for the third book lol oh well no more hard covers. At least for now

[@KarolRychwalski]

The next ones are great, that’s for sure. But I think I didn’t love any of them as much as this one. Coltaine.

[@parcaleste]

NOT A SPOILER, but something like a heads up: have the big dude that promises to kill and is constantly eyeing Heboric, the one that is buddies with Leoman, in the back of your mind. He's... someone and someone which on my first read I totally forgot that he existed, even when he was (re)introduced (I'm really slow or/and forgetful sometimes). I call GotM a warm up. A prologue. Erikson was aiming for something else with it, but with DhG he finds (shows?) his actual tone and will start expanding on it. And speaking of prologues: each and every one in every book has way more meaning, even for future books, than it seems at first (confusing) glance. Have fun with the siege of Capustan and the Children of the Dead Seed in the next book... Fun. Ha. Ha. 🤪

[@rammelbroadcasting]

I sure will. Also is that the guy that says he won't speak another word to him until he kills him?

[@parcaleste]

@@rammelbroadcasting Yes. I'm afraid to write more, because I may spoil one too many things. The next book is an entirely different "conquest" and stuff that happened 1000+ pages ago, with totally different characters, can fly out of your head with ease.

[@dlasis]

Best of luck. This series is going to break you to shreds (I hope). There's a reason why this book series is revered by many. I think you're one of those who appreciate the metaphysical aspects of the book. At face value, the series is kinda meh. But when you dig into the deeper meanings and other things not written in text, you will realize that Erikson is telling you a very important message. I hope you continue to tab your favourite quotes as you go along because Malazan has hundreds of beautiful passages that hit the soul.

[@waldo8791]

Jealous of that hardcover sir

[@nathanielvalla6142]

Man, don't go adding more books to my TBR It's already longer than I want.

[@salomealhusami594]

Believe me, it's worth it! And in my humble opinion, it should be at the top of your TBR.

[@nathanielvalla6142]

@ book there already a book case of books I planning on reading

[@dlasis]

@@nathanielvalla6142 I agree. This series is lifechanging. It's challenging but really worth it.

[@stevieroach]

My personal feeling reading this series was that the magic system is actually hard, but it appears soft. That is, there are fairly specific rules to how it works, but they remain in Erikson's head and he never tells us (or the characters) what they are. To put it another way, it was hard in the writer's head, but soft on the actual page. I could be wrong, of course, because I haven't read his mind, but that was my impression.

[@rammelbroadcasting]

@stevieroach That could very well be true because I think they originally were thinking about making this into a tabletop game before it was books. Meaning there would probably be rules.

[@salomealhusami594]

@@stevieroach From watching every interview with Erikskon I could find, he definitely seems to know more than he wants us to know, but he likes to keep some things mysterious. For example, in the sixth book, there is something that two BookTubers thought is a deus ex machina. But when they interviewed Erikson, like they do after every book, he outlined, in detail, how it is NOT a deus ex machina. He gave us his thought process behind that event, and it makes so much sense! People in the comments, including me, were stunned at the genius of it and how none of us thought about that specific event and just took it for what it is. Because of that, Erikson replied in the comments that he thought out everything very carefully, just for himself while writing, and for the purpose of being able to provide good and coherent answers when people challenge him on certain things.

[@alanrussette2819]

@@rammelbroadcasting Erikson and Esslemont built the world through playing GURPS (though Anomander Rake was created during D&D campaigns, which is why he seems like a drow), if I remember correctly.

[@parcaleste]

​@@rammelbroadcasting I think it was either in one of the Esslemont's books, "Return of the Crimson Guard" or "Stonewielder", where he explains the magic system in way that makes more sense. If you never read them, those two plus "Night of Knives" are pretty good (A LOT of Dassem Ultor back story in it).

[@nazimelmardi]

And yet Coltaine is who you never got a POV in the book, ☝️

[@TertiaryScroat]

I have read it the series 6 times and I still picked up on new stuff, mind maybe that is because I am deeply stupid, not tRump voting stupid (I can read after all) but fairly stupid. Going by your scoring so far you will need to give Memories of Ice a big fat 10.

[@rammelbroadcasting]

@@TertiaryScroat That's a lot of read throughs for a 10 book series wow

[@TertiaryScroat]

@rammelbroadcasting every time a new book came out I would re-read the series.

[@myself2noone]

I started off not caring and continued to not care. I'm too aware of the hand of the author on this series for the story to really matter to me. That's what happens when you kill death on chapter 3.

[@Greenslime300]

"Malazan" is both the demonym and adjective for the Empire originating from Malaz. Similar to "American" or "Roman." Calling it "The Malazan Book of the Fallen" is using "Malazan" as an adjective to describe the book. It's also why Erikson pronounces it ma-LAZ-an even though most of Booktube doesn't lol

[@rammelbroadcasting]

I'm 100 percent sure I'm pronouncing it wrong, but I also have no clue how it's really pronounced, so I'm just going with it for now.

[@parcaleste]

@@rammelbroadcasting I've listened to Erikson interviews and heard how he pronounces some names. Tavore, for example. He pronounces it Tavor. I can't but pronounce it TavorE. 😅

[@vinodvagadurgi414]

Bro not even joking i don't understand what to read after reading malazan It's just not so cool