Dealing with LIMPERS in Live Cash Games!

Weekly Poker Hand #298: Dealing with limpers can be tough at times, especially limpers who are maniacal post-flop. This hand is a great example of what not to do against an overly aggressive limper! Would you make this mistake?
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[@PokerCoaching]

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[@thedude5599]

You forget one of the most important parts of this whole hand. If George does hold a nine would he really try and blow someone off the pot with a huge flop bet and no real draws. There is only a gutter draw on a raised pot highly unlikely. George is good enough that if he hits a miracle trips he would most likely check or bet small. This over bet screams bluff to me

[@dmed312]

I gotta say, this video was more about how to deal with maniacs, then with limpers.

[@nicktorigian6301]

donkeys more than maniacs and limpers tbh

[@cobeymagee443]

Lot of discussion about Toby, but it seems George had more awareness for the dynamic than Toby. If he's aware he can put maximum pressure on Toby and get him to lay down a TPTK, or an over pair even, kudos to George for continuing to barrel.

[@damianboolsen]

If your folding AQ in that spot your basically telling the table "Run me over", sometimes even if u think ur 50/50 you have to call to realize your credit vs opponent

[@PokerCoaching]

Yeah, AQ is way too strong to fold here.

[@damianboolsen]

@@IrishFunny YEAH BECAUSE 9X WOULD CALL A 1K RAISE PREFLOP UR A LOSING PLAYER AND UR LOSING YOUR LIFE

[@thomasobrien4707]

IrishFunny snap fold the flop? Absolutely unreal... I seriously cannot believe you said that. Against George? Give me a break

[@FefeLeVrai]

@@IrishFunny Don't insult people because you disagree with them. I agree that folding on the flop is a valid line, definitely far better than calling 1 or 2 barrels and then folding. But as you say George is a loose cannon so he can have any 2 cards here, this means he has a lot of 9s but then it also means he has far more hands that aren't 9s. There are only 2 nines among the 47 cards left, this is about a 8% chance of him having a 9 among his 2 cards if you assume he can have any hand. And if you see other videos of George that guy likes airballing a LOT. This is why herocalling your entire stack is *also* a perfectly valid line.

[@mightybatillo]

@@IrishFunny Do you even play poker man? Lmao

[@ya-cv8jg]

Ok, but loose limp-caller from UTG will have lots of nines in his range, which is strongly represented by his over-donk-bets. Because: 1) why overbet a semi-bluff? 2) what queens does he limp with on UTG? (unless villain is “any two” kinda loose) Hero got scared of a nine suck-out.

[@mulebeatsdrums]

Jonathan, do you watch these hands before you record your analysis? That "Toby just folded, oh my god" seemed to genuinely surprise you, but I assumed you knew it was coming.

[@KyleMart]

I have to admit, I've struggled with sometimes overfolding a bit too much to check/raises on the turn. For example, sometimes I'm playing against players that rarely check/raise and so they often have the nuts. Then some wild players sit down and it throws me off a bit. I'll bet flop and turn and then get check/raised and muck too many hands. It also could be that I go for value that is realistically too thin. It is so easy for me to auto pilot while playing and that is when things start to go downhill. I wouldn't make this mistake against this particular player given that I was paying attention, but if I wasn't paying attention, I might throw it away. It just goes to show how important it is to stay focused on other players. Sometimes I feel like I'm focused on finding this "holy grail" of poker where I can play a static strategy without thinking so I don't feel depleted of mental energy after the session, but I think this does more harm than good.

[@twown]

Here's a common situation I could use some help with: UTG is known to fold everything pre except pairs and monsters, which they habitually limp in with, looking to 3-bet any raise behind them. What to do with AQo in MP after this player limps?

[@kitbillion7783]

Depends on how the other players at the table play. If your raises get a lot of respect and the other players fold a lot, you could raise small and play in position post. So if you think your opponent folds his small pairs if he doesn't hit to a small bet, bet small and give up if he calls and you don't hit. If you hit A or Q go for value, but don't bet 3 streets. I would bet small flop bet medium turn and check back river and fold to any raise.

[@kitbillion7783]

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to isolate big, when he's limping JJ+AQ+ And play in a bloated bot / get limp 3bet. I would just take the profit from him making mistakes with his small/medium pocket pairs. Some ppl might disagree for some stupid reason, but that is 100% the best way to exploit him, if villains range is how I/you assume.

[@kitbillion7783]

I think the ISO raise should be just the sizing where the other players at the table fold. If your 5x gets cold called a lot, go 6 or 7x. If the field is actually cold calling 8x+ I would overpimp AQ and only raise with QQ+ because then you're gonna get disgusting value from those and don't even need other hands to win, lol

[@kitbillion7783]

BTW if you practice multiway pots, limping strategies can work a lot against bad players. I've played a tight limping strategy at a table that was very tight at calling raises, but would limp basicly any 2 and play really awful post. I'd just play a solid range and look to nutmine and bet smallish amounts with tpgk+ for 3 streets and frequently won 30BB pots (doesn't sound a lot, but I only risk 1BB pre) and at these table I had by far the best Winrate so far. Not saying limping is aways good, but in some instances I think you can overlimp strong hands, when your raises don't get through (especially early/middle position with hands like AQ) but that's just a personal experience/opinion. If you go for that, you gotta be comfortable folding TPGK if you get too much resistance though if you play in 4 ways+ pots. Wish you best of success in your games

[@twown]

@@kitbillion7783 Your comments are helpful, KB. Thanks.

[@eatfrenchtoast]

I guess you're right but splashy players always go broke eventually. It's a paired board. Most likely hero wasn't playing off live read and his flop call was a frustration float to begin with. It's really a question of bankroll. If you are playing with rent money can't afford to be calling off overbets with just a pair. I wonder if hero didn't outlast J8 bluffer in the long run.

[@PokerCoaching]

Fwiw, the stakes should make no difference. You should never be playing with rent money and once you are at the table, you should be focused on your overall strategy, not the amount of money.

[@JulienLamy]

Reminds me of this hand I played yesteday very early in a micro online tournament : I open big (about 4x) UTG with KK, only SB calls. Flop comes 559. SB jams all-in. Of course I call, he had K5o, I bust. So yes I agree you should generally not fold in this spot against maniac limpers, but sometimes you'll have bad surprises...

[@iamdavidjacob3560]

So here's a situation I run into over and over. AQ+ open in UTG+2 to 4x, 5 callers, I obviously have to check fold almost all boards. After 4 or 5 of these hands, do you just reload to 100bbs, and keep going? I'm trying to consistently beat an extremely loose-passive home game, but it feels like I'm just missing the mark.

[@ballerlarva4214]

Gradually increase your the size of your opens until you find the point where people stop calling with random nonsense. Just look at it as it's easier to get a lot of money in when you have a monster. Will you still get 5 callers if you open to 6? What about 8? If so you want to be getting these amounts in when you have AA, KK, and QQ, so open this size with AQ as well. Loose-passive players are actually the easiest to beat, just play tight and use big sizes, and let their call buttons do the work for you.

[@ballerlarva4214]

@@dylanhom58 I didn't mean increase your raise sizes to stop people calling with random nonsense, I meant to increase your raise sizes to take advantage of people's willingness to call with random nonsense. Why not get 5x6 or 5x8 BB in pre rather than 5x4 when you have AQ+ if you can?

[@infosneakr]

Raise higher until you get one caller

[@yeayea4072]

Terrible fold against a maniac like George. His chances of flopping trips are < 2% . I’m calling down and getting it all in on the river here every time!! Thanks for the video

[@dongoodman153]

not only did Toby screw the pooch with the fold, I think the QdTd fold was a mistake as well. His T blocked George's straight draw and enabled his own straight/flush draw. But then Jonathan taught me to gamble more. :)

[@lacedvw3349]

Don Goodman I think having a T in your hand is more of a reason to fold. You want George to be bluffing with straight draws there. If you have the T in your hand, you skew George’s range slightly towards more value

[@vladbcom]

Having the T is exactly why I'm not overcalling there.

[@adrianoalves20]

Nit it up 🙂

[@antontzonev1194]

Toby, Toby, Toby😀🙈

[@1warlock97]

Calling down 1 pair hands vs maniacs is uncomfortable but if you can't do it, don't play big pots with them. To be fair, I'd rather see Toby fold the turn than call turn and then fold river. He has to know that if he calls the turn, he cannot fold almost any river. Does being on TV have anything to do with it? I really don't like Zachs call preflop with QTs. I get wanting to play big pots with George but this is not the hand I'd pick to be OOP 3-ways with. I'd much rather have something like 5/4s-9/8s or a pocket pair to splash around with. I want my pairs and draws to be mostly clean and not often dominated like they would be with QT.

[@absoluttchamp]

My premium hands are my worst losers this month because of this fecking limp donk fest online. AA-KK-AKs,-QQ. You simply can`t get 2 out of 4 players to fold anymore.

[@founik]

I don’t blame Toby actually. I mean, I understand that folding top pair against maniacs is a mistake. However I believe that opponent will have more A9/K9 in his range than Toby. So that’s why I somehow understand why Toby folded. I am not saying it was correct, but I understand it. If the opponent is able to get a lot out of line, he could play his value hands like that as well. And I don’t think that maniac would consider such thing like Toby could be trapping with boat of Queens.

[@founik]

On the other hand, I am not sure whether maniacs think like that, but if I would like to target AQ/KQ while value betting, I think over betting flop and turn is geniusly smart. However I cannot see myself shoving the River, because I wouldn’t think that I could get so much value from one pair hand. So I would be really concerned on the river shove. Edit: Lol I skipped two sentences that I wanted to wrote. I meant if it would get to the River and George (maniac) would have shoved. I was editing this on my phone, I wanted to delete couple words and it seems like I've deleted a bit more than I wanted.

[@thedude5599]

anyone who hit trips on a big preflop raised pot would check or bet small

[@founik]

@@thedude5599 Checking makes sense of course to slow play it. However I can't see why would you bet small? If the "hero" is good thinking player than I don't see the reason why bet small. (important to mention - When my image at the table is a lot splashy/a bit maniacal player) Maybe if you would like to get value from A highs without Q, than probably. However I wouldn't play it like that. That's something what I have learned from Charlie Carrel and Bencb, and Jonathan teaches this as well. To ask yourself what are you trying to get called by? I see two possible ways: If I would like to target pocket pairs (like 7s to Js), I would bet from 45%-60% of the pot on the flop, than a bit smaller around 40-50% on the turn so I could get still called. Btw, non-believers will call on the flop with A highs without queen as well. If I would like to target AQ/KQ, probably Js, maybe Ts, also Ks and As, than I would be fine with potting it or over-betting. I am not sure if I would bet 1.6x of the pot, I would go something around 1.2x - 1.3x of the pot, but that's just my personal sizing. Js and Ts would call the flop probably anyway and they should fold the Turn potbet/overbet (non-believers still could call twice), which is fine for me. AQ, KQ, AA, KK will call both streets regardless on sizing. Than I would bet smaller on the River probably as shove should get called only by better, well it depends if opponent is able to fold AA and KK. Why? Because I think we can make our selves pretty polorized in this situation, we are repping big bluff or betting only for value. Which probably gives us better opportunity to fold against the raise, because only boats should raise in this situation.

[@thedude5599]

@@founik Yes checking is the obvious play here if you hit trips on a large pre flop raised pot. Most good players are not going to bet huge or bet at all if they hit trips. You ask why bet small and I will tell you, it is the only bet that makes no sense. You verify this but saying WHY bet small. Poker is about deceit and think about this. Someone who flops trips on a large preflop raise who is not the raiser will more often then not check, or he will bet a little less then a pot sized bet but not nearly as often as he will check. No one who flops trips is going to over bet it or if they do it will be very very rare. A small bet makes it looks like you wanna pretend you have a nine but most likely do not but you actually do. The small bet is the most disguised of all three option. Check most common, bet a little less then pot next most common, small bet third most common and over bet least common option. A small bet will get a call for sure if someone has top pair or an over pair and you can continue on the next two streets betting any size you want. Once they call the flop they do not think you hold a nine. The hook is set just do not blow them off the pot. This guy with AQ is a noob and playing with scared money. The guy is only going to flop trips 1.9 % of the time with a random hand. meaning you can call this 49 times out of a hundred and will be correct nearly all of them. The folder has no clue on odds or he would call that bet against that guy.

[@julianbelmarsh]

There is just no way you can justify folding a Q here. If you know your opponent is a maniac you are happy to call him down all the way... and get his stack 90% of the time. To those who justify folding here: what do you call with? Exactly 99? If that is the case then, as Jonathan says, I hate to break it to you but you're probably not very good at poker. So just call him down and accept to get stacked 10% of the time. You'll get your chips back in many other spots.

[@thedude5599]

Would George really try to blow you off the pot if he hit his 9 unlikely . Obvious over bet bluff know one would bet trips on a big raised pot.

[@pierre-augustemaurais2167]

5k 6max final table will be nice:)

[@trixapete]

what about AX? Tough to call three big bets. So George just outplays u there i guess? AQ u cannot fold obvs

[@FefeLeVrai]

Pretty sure ace high is a fold because George's bluffs can suck out by making pairs, you can't herocall 3 barrels with it. Like imagine the turn or river is a jack or a 8 here...

[@guillermoalvarez9400]

I doubt this guy would actually play a 9 this way. Guys like this are usually unbalanced

[@roliveira_ufrn]

if George limped, how can you be so sure he did not have a 9? like 9J suited?

[@FefeLeVrai]

You can't. But what you can be sure of is that he's got way more junk than he's got 9s here. And that's all you need to go for it, because it gains EV.

[@troublelessone7999]

Interesting. I wouldn't expect someone to have any 9's combos preflop at a $175 raise. Has to be a strong hand or rare to continue. George limped/called pre-flop in and then C-bet the $700 on the flop, so he couldn't have pocket A's, K's, or Q's. He was saying "I have middle pairs or some suited combination of K's and Q's to play. Toby had some level of A's and Q's blocked so that leaves combinations of K's, K,10 and K9(maybe suited). The pre-flop bet should have made weaker hands fold. I was more surprised to see Zack fold, but seeing George an UTG bigger stack betting into two players was making a statement too. I see what you mean by knowing how George likes to bluff. Considering the few hands that beat Toby, should have been worth a raise on the flop and/or a call on the turn... The $2500 bet looked strangely suspicious in the way it was spread out during the play. I'm thinking if George wanted to keep Toby in, he couldn't have 9's with that sizing. Had Toby re-popped on the flop or turn; George folds the bluff. George must have noticed Toby's sensitivity to stack sizes, as the bigger stack betting as much as a third of Toby's stack on the turn, forcing Toby to think about an all-in possibility on the river. Basically bullied him out of that pot..

[@julianbelmarsh]

Toby, if you're watching, go get your free trial @ pokercoaching.com!

[@TheMarkarian13]

But Toby omfg

[@FefeLeVrai]

With this bet size on the flop, he's either got a 9 or he's got air. Yes, since that guy plays every garbage hand pre, he can have any 9, can definitely show up with 93o here. But if you think he does have a 9, you fold instantly on the flop, you don't even call the first overbet. Meanwhile, if you think he's got air, you herocall 3 barrels even if he puts you all-in. But calling 1 or 2 barrels just to fold afterwards is the worst possible thing you can do here.

[@mikeheitz8773]

FefeLeVrai this is a losing thought process. You need hands that Call flop fold turn and hands that call flop and turn and fold river.

[@FefeLeVrai]

@@mikeheitz8773 That's just the GTO strat. Why would you play GTO against a loose maniac? The only losing strategy is not adapting to what you're facing.

[@AceHardy]

✍️

[@Chi_CityRaiderLV]

Can’t hate on George... this is Poker not Bingo... he pulled off an insane bluff and won the pot. that’s one way to win at Poker...run weak players over , apply pressure and fight for pots that don’t belong to you... if that’s all you do is play when you actually make a hand you’ll be at the mercy of pure Luck which don’t hang around too often... Lol

[@matthewnell8999]

Poker Nemesis 666 guessing you’ve never actually played then?😂

[@Chi_CityRaiderLV]

Matt November guessing you play “ ABC “ poker... Lol 😂 hope that works out for you

[@matthewnell8999]

Poker Nemesis 666 even your name shouts out I play zynga poker on Facebook with sunglasses on😂

[@Chi_CityRaiderLV]

Matt November play your bingo poker , follow the rules , and keep playing basic strategy as you are told... don’t get out of line and keep your basic hand charts memorized oh ya and don’t bluff... you’ll lose your money Lolol 😂

[@matthewnell8999]

Poker Nemesis 666 don’t get angry, your mum will be raging if you brake her laptop now.

[@tomohawk52]

I would be curious to know George's background. Is he a multimillionaire entrepreneur? Did he win the lotto? Did he make a fortune by buying Bitcoin when it was $10?

[@vladbcom]

definitely does seem like he didn't have to grind it out

[@hhorizonn]

maybe he made his money by running over the nits at 5/10/25

[@jppiano1]

As a pro I know likes to say, "Just bet big and they'll fold."

[@thomasobrien4707]

jppiano1 what’s his name and where does he play lol

[@everythingallin4905]

Slow down a little. You are talking very fast.